The Anti-Ageing Expert: "I Have The Erection Of An 18 Year Old!", "This Food Reverses Your Age!", "This Oil Reduces Inflammation by 85%!"

What on earth have you given me? That is how you can measure your nighttime erections. It's unbelievable in ways it improves health and wellness. Brian Johnson is back. The billionaire who's spending two million dollars a year to stay young forever. Through algorithmic precision. This is the most impactful humanitarian project ever. It's time to find the very best science in the world how you can extend your life.

Honestly, I'm in the absolute peak performance of my entire life. I've extended my lifespan over 30%. Reduced my age by 12 years, increased muscle and strength, and now six months of perfect sleep.

I've accomplished the best sleep score in history. A demonstration of human ability. Because if I can do it, everyone else can do it too. Every second of every day, we're all trying not to die. That's what we're doing as society right now. It's not working very well. But if an algorithm could manage your health and wellness for you and achieve near perfect health, would you opt in to that? Because we found it. But what can the average person do? One thing that works is... Really? Yeah, it's like the super of super foods.

There you go. Well, that is not how you meant to have that. And what comes next? The best is yet to come. Kate Tolo. Kate, will you come on out? So you're the first woman on Earth to follow Brian's lifestyle. That's right. What's been the biggest sacrifice?

Right. You're now coming up on almost three years since you started Blueprint, which is your sort of anti-aging life extending longevity protocol. Is that accurate? That's accurate. Give me a overview of the benefits you've been able to achieve in those three years.

I legitimately have never been happier in my entire life. When you have a series of bad nights of sleep and you're eating poorly and you sleep poorly in a week or two, you just normalize to that new norm. You don't realize what you've lost. It just becomes invisible to you. And then when you bounce back after a really great night's sleep and you take care of yourself, you make the observation, this is the most remarkable thing ever. I wish I could exist like this all the time.

And I've hit that state where I'm in the absolute peak performance of my entire life. I've never been as well rested. I've never been as with greater clarity of mind. I've never been more calm emotionally. I'm not provoked. I'm not irritable. Things that I struggled with before.

It's true that you don't know how bad you felt until you feel good. I can relate. It's dealing with oneself is the most challenging thing. This is from my experience. The most challenging thing in my existence is understanding my own self.

Brian, to map out where I'm self-aware and where I'm unaware, where my self-awareness ends, and what I've normalized to and it can no longer see, what status quo hides from me, what biases I have in my brain, what blind spots I have, I'm blind to so much of reality. And I just have no idea. And the brain plays these tricks on us where we believe with confidence that we're the master of our reality, that we see all things, we feel all things, that if something's missing, we're going to note it.

But really, my life has become trying to find out what's invisible to me. What are some of those psychological biases that you think most people still don't realize? Oh, man, it's like my most favorite topic because we are fooled into thinking that we truly understand.

our situation, our reality. And there's so many easy tricks one can play, even something simple. Like if you prime somebody with words like Grandmother or Grandfather or like, you know, things that trigger thoughts of old age or being slow, and then you ask the person to walk down the hallway.

to do a task, those who've been primed with old sounding words, associated words and young, the old associated walk more slowly and the young walked quicker. We incorporate all these things into the way we act and the way we think and what we internally generate and it's beyond our awareness.

So for people that don't know what the word priming means, essentially, if you just say those words to somebody, if you say grandmother or grandfather or old associated, elderly associated words to somebody in studies, they then walk slower. I'm really interested in the behavioral stuff because I think most of us are governed by a set of stories that we've come to not believe about ourselves, that we've probably learned from.

false evidence along the way. And we're now living our lives in accordance with that false instruction manual. Like there's a puppet master pulling the strings telling me that I am a entrepreneur that does a podcast in that I'm unorganized and I'm not, you know, whatever. Yeah. How does one go about understanding that those words are governing our lives, but then also more importantly, getting rid of the power that they're exerting over us?

There's a few things I do on a daily basis to help me. One, I read a book by Gary Becker, the economics of life when I was 24 years old. And he would take any given topic like poverty, something that would be non, you wouldn't think that this thing relates to math and economics. It's just like this social phenomena that I would have previously heard someone tell me a story about. And he would break them down using economics. And I thought, that's unreal. A world understood

through numbers and graphs and models. Not through stories. No one's going to tell me any story. They're just going to lay this out. And I realize that there are limitations, of course, of those things, like stories are embedded in those, to some extent. However, from the world I came from, where it was dominant on story, to see that the world could be objectively measured, understood, and quantified changed my reality. And so now, when I look at a given situation,

I try to identify what is the numerical representation of this thing? What is the mathematical formula? What is the graph that explains this phenomena? Not through a story lens, but what systems are it play? So I try to parse through all the decoys that would otherwise take me down a different path. And then, secondarily, is an example of that. What's an example?

I mean, so like what determines whether I have high quality sleep? And most of the time in my, previously in my life, my sleep quality was something like a random. I would go to sleep and I would have no idea what was impacting why I would get high quality sleep or not. And then I could numerically back out. That's what I've done over the past few years is what elements contribute to and how those biological processes function and then what happens when and you can map out the entirety of that process.

Last time we'd spoken, I think you were on four months of perfect sleep. Where are you at now? I completed six months of perfect sleep. And what is perfect sleep? 100% sleep score. And that's judged by my wearable by whoop. Okay. And so before I did this,

Nobody had achieved that series of 100% scores. And many people who have had a device like that for over a year have never once achieved a 100% sleep score. And what I was trying to do was something akin to like a four minute mile or Amelia Earhart flying to plane across the Atlantic or someone climbing Everest. It was basically a demonstration of human ability.

that people didn't think was possible. And then once one person demonstrates it, it opens it up for everyone else. Because if I can do it, everyone else knows they can do it too. And so I wanted to show that reliable high quality sleep is achievable. And that if you do that, it could potentially give you the best cognitive and emotional performance of your life.

Do you think there's a human being, an adult human being on planet Earth that's slept better than you for the last six months? There's currently no one that has shared data that has achieved that. So if we're just looking at the data alone, which is not an entire representation, then yeah, I have accomplished the best sleep score in history.

impressive. And just to recap, so I'm clear, because I know we discussed this last time, you go to bed at like eight, eight p.m., right? Eight thirty. Eight thirty. And your last meal of the day is before midday. That's right. 11 a.m. Eight thirty. And you're still doing that. You're still going to bed eight thirty every day. That's right. People are, I feel like this, best sleep is getting worse and worse in society with stimulants that we consume, the way we live our lives, devices destroy sleep,

Do you think sleep is really the foundation of daily performance? Would you aim at that first if you were someone that was trying to start your journey to live a

A life more in line with your long-term goals. Sleep is the single most important thing any human does on any given day. If you look at it from a cultural identity standpoint, people like you and me who work hard at an entrepreneurial endeavor, there's this mythology that if you sleep under your desk or you go days without sleep, you're a hero, that people will tell stories about you. It's like the old,

I guess Viking mythology where you have these stories told about your great deeds. It's almost like if you're a great entrepreneur and if you want to be respected by your peers and if you want to achieve mythology like status.

you do that sleep deprivation thing. And so it's built so far into our cultural identity. So when people, I know when my friends who I act as a therapist for many people who go through this thing, whether they don't realize why they actually can't prioritize sleep. And then when we dig deep is that they have these

imaginations of the kind of person they want to become, and how they want others to view them. And they feel trapped that if they don't complete the mythology lore, that they'll somehow be less than, and they won't achieve the ranking among the social group. And it's all backwards. The shift that's appropriate

And it's happening, actually, right now, is that the person who prioritizes sleep is going to be higher performing. They'll be more lucid. They'll have better ideas. The people who don't sleep are literally half dead. They're actually intoxicated. They're impaired. Physiologically. Physiologically, they're impaired. Explain that. When you are sleep deprived to a certain degree, it is equal to being intoxicated by alcohol. You're inebriated.

And so these are the people who are leading organizations. There are groups of a large number of individuals that are expecting them to make high quality decisions on behalf of the entire group.

And it's those very people who are not sleeping well and who are impaired in their judgment. It's backwards. And so this is, it's a good note to make. And this goes back to the first conversation of, what am I not aware of? If you're playing the script of social norms of doing what people say and you're not questioning them, then you're living in a path in the past of antiquated ideas that are hurtful to you.

Like here's one more example, I was at a conference of the day and the gentleman who was interviewing me said, hey, who here thinks that you can live forever? And there were like two people were like, who here thinks you're going to die? And like everyone's hand shut up. And I was commenting to them that when you read history, who in a historical moment actually understood what was happening in that time and place?

You know, 99% of people are living in the past. They repeat the things that people in the past had said, the future had already arrived. So if it's like the year 1634, the future already arrived in 1634. It's just the people that are living during that timeframe don't know it. They hadn't seen it yet. They hadn't been exposed to it or maybe they exposed to it, but they thought it was crazy or the person was a quack. And so you're always, people are always living in the past. And so the same is true right now. We are living in the past.

The future is already here. The ideas and technologies are out there. Maybe you and I have seen it. Maybe we can't. Maybe we encounter it. Maybe we believe it. Maybe we don't, but it's definitely here right now and sleep is one of those things where the future is already here and people who are playing the mythology of no sleep and other desk and everything else, they're living in the past.

I think a lot of people listening who do struggle with sleep do believe in the importance of sleep, at least if you ask them, they'd say they did. But for whatever reason, they might have sleep related difficulties, they might have insomnia, they might just lay in bed all night and just feel anxious, whatever else. And it's those people that I

I want to offer some advice to the people that, yeah, they work hard and stuff, but they just struggle with sleep. Yeah. There's a difference between the acknowledgement that sleep may be good for you and that you say, like, yeah, I'm on board a good sleep. It's an entirely different situation when you prioritize your life around that, which means if somebody's like, hey, let's grab a drink. Sorry. Can't. My bedtimes at blank.

Or if you find that you sleep better by having earlier meals and then you're in a social event, you're like, well, I'm going to eat anyways. So it forces you to make really hard decisions on your actual lifestyle, which it does. It pits you against social norms, which are uncomfortable. We want to fit in. We want to have friends. We want to be part of the tribe.

So it does really invite, but every person who makes the gesture, who does it, makes the tribe stronger. So when one person is brave enough to say, actually, I'm going to hit the sack guys and like, oh, man, you're such a wuss. Why are you doing that? Hang out, man. Like, what's wrong with you? They jokingly try to belittle a little bit. It's kind of serious and kind of not. But every time somebody does that and has the courage, there's several others in that group who are like, damn,

I now feel empowered that I can say something. And that's the norm that's shifting, but this is the same social dynamics in whatever time you're in. It's just understanding that and not being owned by it. And then I guess the other exception potentially is parents that don't have childcare.

I mean, when I speak to parents, they always tell me, they're like, Steve, listen, when you have a kid, you can forget your no meetings before 11 AM rule and your HRV competition. Because when that baby cries at 3 AM, you know, and then at 4 AM and at 5 AM, you're just going to be dragged through the mud with them. So that's true. And having raised three kids, I can attest that that's true also.

you can definitely establish a sleep culture in your family, where you can make it understandable that once the child goes to sleep at whatever age, the expectation is they're in their bedroom for that entire duration of time, absent something

a fire or them feeling threatened for their life, if it's because they lost their toy car under their bed, or it's because they can't find their blankie, none of that justifies leaving the room and entering the parent's bedroom. So there's definitely things that can be done. You're not entirely powerless, and you can make meaningful improvements by setting a standard for the entire family that starts with the parents, like what hygiene do they maintain, and what do they pass on to the children, but it's not entirely hopeless.

Based on the way you live your life now, you must look at people and see a whole lot of excuses and a whole lack of responsibility. Everywhere you go, every week you get, every comment you see, it must just to you reek of low responsibility. Because you're someone that, as you said last time, has kind of given up control of yourself to this blueprint, which really is the essence of discipline is completely surrendering to that. Do you think people are lacking responsibility in full of excuses about their lives?

I mean, who of us are not that. And like any of us who would dare say otherwise are deceiving ourselves. And this is again, the self awareness is we all are self deception machines. And anyone who doesn't believe that is self deceiving.

Do you still self-deceive? Absolutely. What are you still self-deceiving yourself on this aspect? I wouldn't trust myself in my own pantry with a bunch of junk food. That's why in my house, I've eliminated all self-harm. There's just nothing I can do because I don't trust myself.

It's not like I, you know, I feel like I've created so much discipline and confidence, like put it in front of me and I won't do it. Even though I do on a daily basis where I'm in social situations, I don't put myself in that environment. But yeah, I mean, I, my goal is to find where I'm in air in thought and action constantly. That's it. That's the gym. That's a treasure chest is finding out where you've missed.

But you can know you've missed somewhere. I think about areas in my life where I go, right? I know what the right thing to do is, but for whatever reason, I keep not doing the right thing. And I keep getting the feedback. Yeah. OK, you mess that up, Steve. And then, you know, week passes and I might do the same thing again. The one game we all humans like every human on the planet is playing is don't die. Every second of every day, we're all trying not to die, not to die. So we look both ways before we cross the street.

We have carbon monoxide detectors. We don't seek out. We don't drink poison on purpose. We do all these things to not die. Now, the weird thing, though, is I can look both ways before I cross the street and also be smoking a cigarette. And that's just the nuances of the human mind. But what I wanted to do with Blueprint is I wanted to say, OK, if you really don't die to the absolute extreme,

I'm going to measure every biological process in my body and find out where every cell is aging, like where basically where dying is happening. And then I'm going to identify all those behaviors and I'm going to try to eliminate every behavior that contributes to don't dying. So what is possible in 2023 for the ultimate effort of don't die on every front? And that means no excuses ever for anything.

So a six-month sleep score, like you basically have to say, this is in stone. It's not going to be changed under any circumstance because I'm trying to prove a point of what could be done with the science in this moment. So when you said about the cigarette example, you'll cross the road, you'll look both ways to make sure you don't get hit by a trap, but you'll be smoking. The way that I interpreted that is, okay, we don't want to die and we will want to sign up to don't die, but none of us want to sign up to don't live.

Yeah, with with living your mapping that to like some sensorial pleasure, like you just some kind of, yeah, some kind of pleasure, whether it's having a couple of cocktails or staying up late and watching Netflix or whatever it might be. Yeah. Yeah. And you're trying to find the things that create the stimuli that you care about. Yeah.

I think most people want to extend their life, but I think they only want to extend it as long as they can live within that extension. And obviously what you've chosen to do is to extend your life and make bigger sacrifices than the average Joe would be prepared to make. Yeah, the argument I'm making is in any other time as a homo sapien, I completely understand that process. Do your thing.

The difference right now is where baby steps away from super intelligence, which means for the first time in the history of Homo sapiens, we may not die. And so I'm arguing that only in this moment does it make sense to take these extreme measures because before you can easily say, look, I'm willing to trade 10 years of end life for this version of life now, reasonable, understandable, sure. But in this moment,

You may miss out on the most spectacular existence in all of history. So why, why do that for some cheap thrill? What's that spectacular existence I might miss on? Um, it's complicated, definitely complicated to be human. Uh, when you look at the capabilities of AI as it's emerging, there's reason to believe that we are acquiring the ability to engineer reality.

We can physically engineer atoms, molecules, organisms. We can create experiences with certain chemicals. We can program visual realities. We have our fingers on the ability to engineer and program the entirety of our reality increasingly.

That opens up an expanse of opportunity that is so far beyond our imagination. We can't even begin to pretend like we understand.

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What are the concerns there? If everybody gets older, isn't there going to be huge disparities in wealth and stuff? Because I read some stats that the global share of wealth held by people over the age of 65 is increasing. In 2020, people aged 65 and older held 35% of global wealth. By 2050, they projected to hold almost 50% of global wealth.

Isn't it going to be the case that if we're all living longer, you'd imagine, think about some of the richest people in the world now. They would just accrue more and more wealth, older generations would have more wealth, and younger generations would have very little. There'd be this kind of disparity within society. The 250-year-olds will all be like billionaires.

Yeah, that's just an engineering problem. It's a site is public policy. So do you believe in a universal basic income where we'd hand money to people? I mean, I don't think it's not a reason to not want the future. It's not a reason to not want longevity. It's not a reason why we shouldn't extend lives. It's not a reason why somebody should be deprived. It's not like if you're wealthy and you're old, you should die. It's like it's everyone's got this opportunity for life. And if there's a very large disparity, it's getting worse. It's a public policy problem.

Do you not think from a philosophical standpoint that death is part of life? I, if you look at any sort of animal kingdom, death is part of the sort of a natural attrition that creates new offspring, new mutations, new energy, new ideas, I guess. It has been the system of intelligence that produced us. We have now taken the reins and we are now the new system of intelligence, this creating life going forward. When did we take the reins?

when we started learning how to engineer biology. When we, when we, this is what I spent the past 10 years doing is my observation was after selling brain tree Venmo, it's amazing that we have been able to create the capability set in the digital world. You take a problem that can be solved by people sitting down at a computer on coding software. We can, as a species, we're extraordinarily good at it.

Millions and millions of people that can do it and solve problems very quickly. If you take a problem in the physical world, like we say, the coral reef is dying around the world, which is creating a major problem in these in oceans, how do you make a coral reef that is more robust to heat or to big variations? You need to have the same programmability of programming, of building a new coral reef that can do that sort of thing. If that's an approach to the problem, we need to have those abilities. And so the goal I had was,

We need this foundational technology so that any problem in the physical world, whether it be our health, the health of the oceans, anything, building a global biological immune system, we need to have these physical abilities. And so once you have that, you can program physical reality, including conscious states, including earth health, including our health and wellness, all things become possibilities. Do you talk about kernel?

No, I had a venture fund. Okay. Yeah. What is Connell? What are you doing with Connell?

Kernel is a way for us to use science and data to build our best cognitive existence. So for example, it's easy for each of us to get on a scale and see our weight. And when we see weight is climbing very quickly, we think that's not a good situation because that leads to bad health outcomes that I don't feel great. And so there's a good feedback mechanism for how am I doing with my health with my weight.

We don't have the same equivalent for our brains. You can get an MRI or you can get a PET scan. They're great, but they're hard to get. They are expensive. It's very laborious to actually do it. We need to be able to acquire information about our brains as easy as it is to step on a scale and get our weight. And that's what we built a kernel is the bike helmet you put on your head and you find out important information about your brain. I had my brain scan last week. Have you seen your brain? Of course you've seen your brain. Did you find out anything about your brain?

I did. Well, I wanted to demonstrate that you could ask a question, what happens when? And then take a given thing about the brain. Like, what happens when I do a psychedelic? What happens when I play a game? What happens when I don't sleep well? What happens when? And all the things we do that affects our brain. And in this case, I was a pilot participant for ketamine.

So we run a 15-person ketamine study. Ketamine is anesthetic, also used to tranquilize horses, also a party drug. And so I received a dose of ketamine in my arm, and then I was in that experience for 45 minutes. And what we saw was interesting that I had my brain measured for 10 minutes a day for five days before, during the ketamine experience, and then working days afterwards.

And I think the most interesting thing is my brain patterns, like if you think about the patterns, like imagine you're looking at planet Earth and there's airports all over the earth and you're seeing traffic patterns between each airport. So between Tokyo and New York, there's a lot of traffic, London, New York, a lot of traffic, but between smaller cities, you have just a few planes here and there. There's big traffic patterns in our brains of where activity is happening. And those patterns tell you things about yourself, like it sounds like you had someone else has done.

And when I did the five days of measurement, my patterns of my brain were stable. Every single day, they were the same, the same traffic from the same place to and from. And then when I did ketamine, it scrambled all of my patterns.

It's like you took the globe and you just like remapped where all the airports were and like, okay, planes start flying. And then over on day three, four, my patterns started forming again back in a similar way. And so there was that two to like one to three day therapeutic window where I was very open to new pattern creation.

And there's a joke among my colleagues where we were walking from one meeting to another. And there was a wall that was in front of us. And it was a day two after I took ketamine. And I thought, I'm going to jump over the wall. That seems like a fun idea. Why not? So I just spontaneously jumped over the wall. And then all my colleagues were like,

What are you doing? We're in a work environment. We don't jump over walls. And I hadn't thought about it in that frame, but I wonder if in that moment I was open to doing something different and unique that I normally wouldn't have done because I had this opening, but it was cool to see my patterns where they were, how they changed and how they reformed in some kind of window that opened up as how I could remap my own experience.

I mean, that's probably a pretty compelling case for psychedelics as it relates to mental health. And, you know, if we think of some mental health disorders as being stuck in patterns, patterns of thinking, patterns of belief, patterns of behavior, there's been quite incredible technical studies done to show the impact that something like psilocybin or Ibogaine can have on addiction or depression. What's your view on psychedelics?

They're powerful. Yeah, and I hope that Colonel accelerates their progress because most of the measurements are done through questionnaires. You're asking the person how they felt and their perspective, but we know that our subjective experiences are not terribly reliable.

Like when after I had ketamine, if I were to use words to explain what I experienced, I don't know. If I'm asked on day three, how I felt in day one, it's hard to remember. Now you can journal and try to make more detailed notes, but it's really hard to subjectively account for your brain. And so having a system that tracks the data

remove some of that challenge and it could help usher in psychedelics for much broader adoption much faster because you've got data to support what you're trying to demonstrate. Have you tried all the psychedelics? I've had some experiences. Mushrooms. I've done mushrooms. What do you think?

Really interesting experience. Did it change your opinion or your perspective of your own mind? Yes, yes. I was overseas. I think I was in Peru or something. And I was at a mushroom ceremony, whatever. And I'd taken the treatment that the charm or whatever had given me. And I didn't think it was working. So I went over and sat down on my laptop.

Yeah, really fucking bad idea. And for whatever reason, and this is so on me, I clicked on Netflix because everyone was over there and they were all having their experience. I thought, I'll just watch something on Netflix. And I didn't even watch Netflix. I clicked something on Netflix. And as I'm watching it,

It's like some, I don't know, some reality TV thing. And it just becomes really apparent to me that these people's values that I'm watching are like really bad. They were like bitching about each other and they were all being mean to each other. And at that very moment, the world started to just spin and shake. And I put the laptop away and went and joined the gang, wrote about 35 notes of handwriting. Again, I never write with my hands about connection. And in that moment, I learned that like my perception on reality is so fragile.

And so what do I believe? You know, if this experience that I'm having with you now, this perception of reality is that fragile, that one little capsule that I can just shake at all, then Jesus, I can't trust much, can I? I love that so much.

That's so beautiful. Like, what do we really know about anything? And like you said, like this one little plant and you eat it, you ingest it, and then somehow your reality is absolutely transformed into something that you never imagined was possible.

but then you come right back. You do, and this is the frame around, like, don't die. So I understand before our time in place right now, like in the 19th century, sure, do your thing because you're gonna die and that's fine. But right now, I guess with your mushroom experience, do you feel open to the idea

that we may acquire new capabilities of conscious experience creation that could make your reality more interesting and more worthwhile, like whatever, than anything you could ever imagine. Yes, but it also could not. Sure. Because I just don't know. So again, it goes back to like, it's hard for people to bet on uncertainty in their lives. Yes. People don't, who wants to bet on, I don't know. Interesting. Are you basically impartial?

I'm kind of good with what life's like now. I think life's quite cool now. I still feel like I'm bending reality by the way that I live my life and the things I've achieved. I still feel like I've got more mountains to climb in my life and higher peaks to see.

But you see what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's not really about a dissatisfaction so much now as the driver. It's that the possibilities are a motivator that you, if you say it's just the possibility, something you've not experienced, a new reality you could experience. We're walking into the cradle of superintelligence.

Okay, so let's define super intelligence just in case that someone's lost us along the way. When you say super intelligence, you're talking about artificial intelligence and computers that are infinitely more intelligent than we are and how we can interface with that intelligence to make our lives and our decisions and our capabilities better.

That's right. Computational intelligence on near future timelines are going to be far superior to our form of intelligence. How and when and what forms, no one knows. But if you look at the trajectory of the speed, it's faster than our minds can comprehend.

And so if we, whatever comparison you want to make, like whether, you know, an ant relative to us, or whatever the version is, or homo erectus to us, we don't know those details on what their experience is. But like if you just try to like think about the scale of intelligence and what that experience may be like, even though we don't know, but you know, essentially your response is informative for me. I have a bias and this goes back to my blindness.

I think this idea of walking into the cradle of artificial super intelligence and the ability to engineer all of reality is the coolest opportunity, maybe in the known galaxy. What's the most compelling argument you've heard against your do not die position? The one that troubles you. I'm entirely unconvinced by any argument that I've ever heard about it.

Are you entirely convinced by the do-not-die argument? I'm convinced through the thought experiment I did, if I try to transport myself to the 25th century.

And of course, they have a sober, a detached cold soberness, objective soberness, looking back to the 21st century that we don't, just like we look back in history and we can see with clarity what we're so caught up in this moment, we're blinded by so many of these realities. And they would look, I'm convinced by my thought experiment that they look back and be like, of course, in the early 21st century, homo sapiens figured out that they had developed the technology to continually expand their life.

And that's just like the human homo sapient culture shifted to the preservation of life. Whereas right now we're all on the death track and then we play all the fun games along the death track, but it's, we just, you have to shift the entire zeitgeist where we, we do the exact opposite of what we're doing today. Instead of embracing and celebrating death rituals, we move entirely to life extension rituals.

Do you think like living forever is possible or even reverse reversing age? Yeah, I mean, I so like basically with all the arguments, I come down to this idea.

This is akin to us interviewing Homo erectus a million years ago and asking Homo erectus to make observations on what it's going to be like to be Homo sapiens a million years later. Have our kind of cognition, have our technology. Homo erectus would have nothing like almost nothing useful to say.

Do we care what they want or don't want, what they're scared of? Do we value it in any way? Interesting from just an observational perspective, but do we really think that Homo erectus has wisdom of some sort that would allow us to step into this existence? That's why I think that we're at now is like we're basically, we're sufficiently primitive in our thought.

I don't believe in anything we say as it relates to the future because the intelligence we're walking into is so far superior to ours. Why would we even begin to imagine that we can express an opinion that is meaningful? Do you see it almost like we're walking into a different species of human? Entirely. I mean, unquestionably, that's happening. One of the really interesting things that's going on is this thing called CRISPR, genetic engineering.

What is what is that whisper genetic engineering? I know you did. You did some kind of DNA therapy, didn't you? I did. I did my first gene therapy gene therapy. Yeah. Yeah. What is what is all of that? And what's the promise that it holds for us? CRISPR genetic engineering and what was your gene therapy?

Currently, there's a ceiling on human lifespan, like 120 or so, that if you live a life a certain way and you're given a genetic lottery, then you can do that. But to punch through 120 is very difficult through lifestyle and diet and exercise. And so to really punch through the ceiling, you need to start working at the genetic level.

Whether you're doing gene therapy, whether you're doing CRISPR, there's a variety of ways you can start modifying your genetic code. This has the power of potential to punch through the ceiling. Explain that to an idiot.

Gene therapy is injecting genes into you. Someone else's genes, genes that have been made in a laboratory. Yeah. So this one is, I just got two injections on either side in my obliques here. And what it does is it expresses the protein full statin.

And so basically, before I have a certain level, I'm like eight or nine, and once you get the therapy, you're higher, like 20, 30s, 40s. And so it's just increasing the amount of full status in my body. And so like one way to understand this is when you work out

Myel statin lessens the amount of muscle growth that can happen. Full statin suppresses myel statins. You have more muscle mass, but it has a whole bunch of other effects as well. This gene therapy didn't change my actual genes. It just increases the expression of full statin in my body.

And how do you know if it works? Measure them. So yeah, I do routine. Well, so there's a few things we're doing. We're measuring this via my blood. What are my fullest at levels before and after? And then we're also measuring my body with MRI. And so because I'm the most measured person in history, we have this interesting vantage point where we can see across my entire body,

from my muscle and my fat and bone and DNA methylation patterns, my speed of aging, to my brain health, like working at hundreds and hundreds of data points to see what effect it has. And have you found an effect chat? Our first results are coming back next week.

Someone like me who is on the high street per se, what are the supplements that are on the high street that do actually work for anti-aging? Because people talk about NAD+, and stuff. And there's all these clinics now popping up all over London where you can sit in the chair for two hours and have the little drip in your arm and stuff. And I did it once because my friend had opened a place and I had a very hot chest, like a burning feeling in my chest. I don't know if it's done anything for me.

So, it goes back to what I said earlier, you're kind of believing it or not like a religion. Yeah, I mean, it's best to measure it. So, you're trying to change your intracellular NAD. I'm sure other people don't measure it though, so does it work? The drips don't. The drips don't work. You want sustained levels of NAD.

And so we, yeah, so I mean, we extensively measure my NAD levels and we've tested NMN, we've tested NR, we've looked at all the different modalities. You want sustained levels. So my levels, when I first started, I think they were equivalent of something like 47 years of age. And now they're reliably age 18. Like I have that much, I have age 18 levels of NAD, interestingly NAD.

and we dialed that dosage in because I was able to measure it. The challenge, of course, is when you do these things haphazardly, get a drip or whatever, it's what you're saying. It's a story. It's clever marketing. It's happy faces. It's what your friends are doing, but it's not based on any reality. You need to see it working in your body. Otherwise, be careful when you're doing it. The only reason it doesn't work is because it's not sustained.

But it would work if it was sustained. So if I did that every week, then it would work. You have a lot to consider the half-life. I don't know all the data on the drips. I know the data much better on NMN and NR. But those things, then, you take them orally? Yeah, orally every day, twice a day. Twice a day. And those things work. Yeah. They reliably maintain my entity, my icy entity levels at an 18-year-old level.

What are some of those big anti-aging therapies or businesses or supplements that most people have just thrown themselves into or habits in terms of longevity habits that are just a load of BS? Most everything. Really? Yeah.

Give me some examples. I mean, everything listed on the Blueprint website is three years of our effort to try to figure out what has scientific evidence, what can we do in me and measure it and then communicate that out? Yeah, because I want to make sure I avoid both advertising. That's right. I got suckered down to do that bloody NAD drip thinking I was going to be an 18-year-old. That's right. So I don't want to do that again. What do I need to avoid? I mean, for example, one thing that works is extra virgin olive oil.

Well, here's what I brought with the idea. Yeah, so you sent me this idea. I sent you that in the post. Yeah, I mean, so we tried to

Or anybody that can't see, I've got a black bottle of extra virgin olive oil that Brian had sent me about a month ago. It says on the front, blueprint, Brian Johnson, ultra premium, extra virgin olive oil, completely all black bottle. It looks like a wine bottle. Or on the back of it, it says, with the goal of slowing his speed of aging, Brian Johnson allocates 15% of his precise daily calorific budget to this extra virgin olive oil.

It is rich in polyphenols, which studies show can potentially safeguard against various cancers, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, and neurodegenerative conditions by providing better reduction of oxidized LDL than regular EVO. Extra-vegetable of oil. Interesting. That's the question. What things can I do in my life that are easy and actionable and have a high impact? Extra-virgin olive oil is very close to number one.

You really? Why? Because of all the things it says on the back. Yeah, when you... There you go. That is not how you're meant to have that. It's spicy. Yeah. You put some pepper in there. That's what premium olive oil tastes like. It's...

It's good oil. It's good all virgin olive oil, but nobody should. It's not nice to drink extra. Oh, it feels quick. It's very, it's quite thick and smooth. Interesting. Yeah, peppery and smooth. If you look at the evidence we just shared about what this does, it's unbelievable in the ways it improves health and wellness. It's better than ozempic.

Really? It is. Okay. So explaining what exam exam peck is, that's a diabetes drug that people are using to lose weight. Yeah. So it's like, those epic is like the fire alarm. And so for example, there's a study where people lost 5.2 pounds, uh, taking an Evo, consuming Evo for nine weeks. In addition to what they're currently eating. Yeah.

And when you say taking what you mean to sprinkling on top of my food or? Yeah, I think the quantity for that study was, I think, 45 ml daily or something like that. It's between 30 and 60 ml daily.

But there's things, for example, like it reduces by over 60% invasive breast cancer. It reduces your blood sugar levels by 60% post a mill, and your oxidized LDL levels, these are the bad thing your body is causing damage by 80% post a mill. So I have a tablespoon with every single mill, and it's like the super of super foods.

And the problem is most of the olive oil in the world does not meet the quality thresholds to make it useful. So you think you're consuming olive oil that's actually doing the having the health benefits. If it doesn't meet very specific criteria, it won't do it for you. So where do we get it? This is what I've tried it. This is why I solved it because we basically trying to find a olive oil that you can verify meets the specs is very challenging.

So we built a supply chain across both hemispheres to acquire the best olive oil in the world to make it just easy. You can trust it. The data is shared and the health benefits are supported by evidence. And this is available online. Yeah. Everyone can buy this. Yeah. It's exciting. But that's an easy one to do. Go to bed on time and drink your olive oil. You've got something down there on the floor, but you wouldn't tell me what it was. What is it? Yeah, I brought you two things today. Okay.

One, I brought you a test. Okay. What is it? This test. Okay. That's the test. It's your speed of aging test. Oh, shit. So you should everybody should know three things, you know, how much you weigh, how fast you're aging and the duration of your nighttime erections. Is that what the other thing is? Oh, shit. So basically, yeah, so both these are going to give you

a good baseline with where you're at in life. So how do I, how do I do this? I can, I can administer that test for you if you want. So I, what it requires is we'll prick your finger. Yeah. Get a little blood. Yeah.

Put it on the card. And then we'll send it to the processing to the center where they're going to process it and you'll get your results back. And it will tell you how fast your aging clock is internally. How does it know that from a prick of blood?

Because your body leaves chemical signatures that reveal the data. Okay, and then I can reverse that presumably. Yes, exactly. So if you, let's say you get a result back and let's just say it's one. So you're aging like a normal person would, average person. You could potentially slow your speed of aging to .6.

which means while all of your friends are aging at a normal rate, you would get September, October, November and December for free. I'd love that. How? Olive oil, go sleep, exercise, like a diet. It's the basic stuff. The basic stuff. And what is this other contraption that you can do is how you can measure your night interactions. I mean, where am I going to put that? Yeah. So you.

You put it on your shaft. And just gently, yeah, there you go. Gently pull that. And so you put, there you go. Put on the mic. Yeah. It's a little bit bigger. I need to. Have you got a bigger one?

Yep. And then you put it on the base and you put it on and you think you presume that it's going to be an irritation that's going to bother you. You're going to fill it. Once you put it on and you go to sleep, you can't fill it. You don't know. What is it you like vibrate in the night or something? So yeah, there's no vibration, but you have erections throughout the night.

And when you correct the expansion of your penis will be captured by that device and it will show how many erections you had and for what duration and what strength.

I've got you. So you put your, you put your, you go to sleep, you put your penis inside it, like, like that. And then when you have an erection during the night, you'll expand and log it. Yes. And it'll keep logging every time you have an erection in the night. That's right. And then we'll tell you, you had four erections tonight during that duration of sleep. They were 47 minutes, 31 minutes, 55 minutes and whatever. And of this strength, of this quality of erection type.

And then this data is really important because it represents psychological health, sexual health, cardiovascular health. It is basically people are not familiar. You go to the gym and build big biceps or whatever, but people are not familiar that nighttime erections are actually a meaningful health indicator. And so you've been measuring your nighttime erections. I have. And what have you found out and how have you been able to improve it? Yeah. My average right now is two hours and 12 minutes. So you're erect at night for two hours and 12 minutes? Yes.

What are you dreaming about? So the thing is, we're not aware of our actions most of the time.

And so my current erection amount is equal to roughly my chronological age. For me to be equal to an 18 year old, I would need three hours and 30 minutes of nighttime erection. So that's the goal we're trying to achieve is we're basically, I mean, no one's ever done this before. We're trying to figure out, can you improve nighttime erection? Do you put this on your penis every night? No, just in. I'll do it three to five days in a row.

So most, most nights of the week, you'll put this on your penis. I'm sorry. So I'll do, for example, in like, oh, okay, like one month, like a month or two months, I'll do like three to five. And it depends on what therapies we're doing. And so what I coupled up with that is we're trying to, one brain grow up. I'm just playing with it. It's just interesting.

Now, I coupled this up with focus shockwave therapy. And so there's this technology you have a wand and you sit in a chair and then the technician uses the wand and basically shocks your penis.

through the acoustic technology. And it's like, it does the same thing as workouts doing when you're creating micro injuries, so then it rebuilds. And so this technology is used for all over the entire body. If you're trying to heal an ACL or you're trying to rejuvenate the knees, the joints, shoulders,

So the technology that has a broad range of applications, it's also used for erectile dysfunction. So while my scores are, I have no sexual dysfunction. I'm my score perfect in every category. We're wondering if you take this therapy, this focus shock with therapy, and if it will just basically rejuvenate to penis and increase nighttime erections. Is there any early evidence that that's working?

Yes, I've been shocked by the results. I'm now two months in. My subjective experience is it's as if my penis has gotten like 15 years younger. We're still in the early stages. We need to measure it. We need data before we're going to believe anything subjectively.

I'm in. When you say when you say a shock, do you mean a painful shock, or is it like a, you know, like a, the kind of shock you, you're painful? Is it like a nice feeling? Is it like a vibration or is it like a painful? It's painful. Yeah. You need to be focused. Like you need to do pain management. Yeah, it's interesting. It's like,

maybe a 7 out of 10, but then once you get to the tip, it's like... Oh, no, they got sucked the whole thing. Yeah, it's like a 9 out of 10, because the tip you have improved sensitivity. So it generates, in addition to what we're trying to do with the 9 out of 10 directions, it also improves erection strength and orgasm pleasurability. So it has all kinds of benefits.

I'm trying to figure out physiologically what's going on there. So you shock the penis, you give a big electric shock to the penis, and then it rebuilds like a muscle would. Yes. And that causes it to be more effective going forward. Yeah. Yeah, it's acoustic technology. So it's not like an electrical shock.

I, this kind of brings, I guess this brings me in part to the thing you use on your abs, the 20K setup machine thing. I, when I was younger in my house, I think my mum bought it in a catalog. She had one of those machines that she put on her abdomen and it gave her an electric shock. Like, and it like kind of vibrated. And I just always thought it was BS. Yeah. I thought the whole industry was just BS. People feel like it's doing something. So they think they're going to get abs, but you've got like a really extensive, impressive machine that does a similar thing.

Yeah, using electromagnetic frequency. And it works. It does. How do you know? We've looked at it with MRI. And the muscles are being like broken down and regenerated from the electric shock. Yeah. Yeah. We've been cheating. So have you got a six pack?

I suppose it's defined to some extent. You're going to have to show us with your permission, of course, because we don't force people to undress on this show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

Yeah, you've got them. Yeah. Yeah. I won't show mine. Not right now. I've been in a way. I showed you mine. Yeah, but it's, it's, you've been doing this for three years. It's fine. Yeah. I'm new. I'm going to work my way up with the penis shock thing. And then I'll make it. Can you imagine being in a conversation and everyone else knows their erection, the nighttime erections, and you don't, like, can you imagine the embarrassment you'd fill? No.

No one I noticed how the mirror. I know. I'm playing. I'm playing because it's, of course, it's a novel idea. Nobody measures their erections. It's not part of a social norm, but you can imagine the humor of you finding someone having a casual conversation. Like, yeah, like I had a really great night sleep last night, new peak record on erection duration and direction.

No, it's going to become a thing I know it is because sexual health and sexlessness and relationships in libido are actually a really big topic at the moment for a lot of people. I've been in relationships where there's been libido issues and things like that. And I've got friends that have got libido issues and sexual health issues and things like that. So we joke about it, but it's not a joke for a lot of people. And it can lead to relationships breaking down and families breaking down and

Yeah. So I do think it's a serious topic. And if this therapy can help people get their erections back and bring their sex life back, then that's an amazing thing. Yeah. The testimonials of the technology are pretty compelling. People with ED that it's causing a significant problem of their own self-confidence of their partners. It's a big deal. When you can't get erect, it's a very big problem.

Your penis is 15 years younger, you believe? I mean, this is a subjective assessment. It's just like, you know, as you age, your body becomes less firm and more saggy, right, across muscle, skin, penis, like you just lose structure across your entire body. And it's improved the structure of my penis. Your hair looks like it's changed as well, since we last spoke. You look like you've got a fuller head of hair.

What's been going on there? The protocol I have is I do platelet-rich plasma every 30 to 60 days, so that is the process where you draw blood from the vein, you spin it up, and you separate the blood from the plasma, and you take the plasma, and then we add acyl.

and do tasteride. So it's a concoction of plasma, A cell, do tasteride, and it's a total volume of between 13, 15 milliliters, and then it's injected across the entire head, or in the areas that would be balding.

And then I also do red light therapy daily, which we spoke about where that cap for six minutes. And then I have a nightly concoction that includes a few things like Medoxidil and a few others. This is all on my website. So the recipe, the protocol, it's all there for everybody.

But I started losing my hair in my early 30s. And it's really hard. With my genetics, it's very, very hard for me to maintain hair. So I've had to work very hard at it. What is hair loss anyway? What does it have received? What's going on? And it doesn't happen in women. Yeah, I know. Typically. Yeah, it's really quite annoying that it's such a big problem.

I wish I didn't have to pay attention to it as much as I do. Why? It just requires constant attention. And it's a.

The technology is not that great yet. You're basically trying to slow the process. You're trying to improve follicle strength. You're trying to prevent future damage, but it's not like something like a gene therapy where with two injections, three or four X, the production of that critical biochemical, my body.

It's not the case. There's now there's technology people are working on for cloning So you take a few of your follicles you clone that and you re you put them in So basically like doing a hair transplant, but you're cloning you're doing your own your own hair So there's other technologies that are emergent that are promising. They're just not a market yet. So it's it's hard and it's like being as a man being bald is a meaningful thing right because it's a significant psychological situation So if you look if you take through the issues of be of like a man

would really struggle with psychologically, being bald, not being able to have erections. Those are two of your top five things. I hope that the things I talk about publicly help break the stigma around it so that people feel hope they can do something about it. They don't have to hide it. It's challenging and it's heavy to deal with it. What do you think about air quality?

I've been thinking a lot about this side. James and Esther on this podcast. He was talking to me about the harm of like in room zero two and stuff like that.

Yeah, I agree. My house is, I have devices around the entire house measuring those things every moment of every day. And I have air filters in every room. And so the air quality in my house is pristine in Los Angeles. The air quality is not great. And so I typically will avoid significant outdoor activities on days where the air quality is particularly bad, but I'm always aware of it. So I have

Monitor to my house that tell me the outdoor quality and the indoor quality in every room. What's the harm that you're trying to avoid? It's damaging. There's like the P2 2.5. There's a few things that are very damaging and they can get lodged, for example, in your lungs and it's very hard to get it out. So there's a lot of sustained damage that's just hard to undo.

Eight. Yes. Eight. Tolo. Is that her name? Tolo? Eight Tolo. Kate, will you come on out? Kate is a 27-year-old former fashion strategist and is Brian's chief marketing officer, but she's also the first woman to ever sign up and follow the blueprint way of living. And Kate is here. Okay, so Brian, who is Kate to you?

Uh...

Kate had the pioneering spirit that helped give birth to blueprint. We began working together at Colonel. We were focused on measuring the brain and how humans could co-evolve with AI. And we started talking about the possibilities of what blueprint could be. The project was underway and we were trying to figure out how we could communicate this. And Kate saw the potential immediately and has been building this with me for several years.

Why did you decide to work with Brian and why did you decide to develop blueprint?

I grew up in a very small town with a very small field of view. And as I got more experience in the world, that view opened farther and further. And I was in New York, and I was working in fashion at the time. And I was sitting in a cafe, and I'd spent the year learning about AI coming to mainstream. And how has the human species gone to deal with this? And I felt very strongly the only way to proceed forward as a species would be to latch ourselves onto AI and to merge with AI in some way.

And so I was in this position where I had all of this energy and I was like, I want to throw it out there into the world. I don't want to do anything my own. And there weren't many people talking about this as a problem. And one day I was sitting in a cafe and I got an email in my inbox from Singularity University. And it included a quote from this man, Brian Johnson back in 2016. And it referenced merging with AI. And I thought, that's the person that I want to.

work with and throw my energy toward. And so I reached out to him and across every medium. So literally his medium articles, email, social media, and I never heard back. And then year after year, I just kept pinging him and pinging him. And then eventually I moved out to LA to work with Brian. And what do you do for Brian? You say you work with Brian?

I intentionally keep it very vague because we do everything together. We are two peas in a pod. And from the very beginning, you know, both at kernel and upload print, we've just done anything and everything that needs to be done. My background is creative. So I lean more toward that side of things. So the marketing and just general brand design, that kind of stuff. But yeah. And you've become the first woman to follow the blueprint protocol. That's right. Yes.

I remember hearing about the blueprint protocol last time we had this conversation. And one of the things that stood out to me is the amount of sacrifice that goes into living in line with it. Things like getting up at a certain time and then going to sleep at a certain time and things that you eat. Are you following all of that?

Yes, I'm definitely not as extensive as Brian is because I've just started the protocol. But that was a big decision factor for both of us when we're considering this. One is it is incredibly laborious on our team to bring up another person. But not only that, it means completely changing my lifestyle. And so when we were contemplating doing this decision, I really gave it a lot of serious thought because I know that the public are going to follow along. It's a really big decision for my life. It's a big decision for our team, for the resources that get

get put behind it. And so early on, we decided that I was going to do a 30 day trial before we made any of this public to make sure that, am I capable? Am I willing? Is this something I actually want to take on? And so yeah, I've meant completely redefining what my life and lifestyle is. And where are we at now with that 30 day trial? Yes. So I've done my 30 day trial and I'm on about day 90 of blueprint. So I successfully did my first 30 days, which was, yeah, really, really difficult. And your day 19 now? Yes. How long are you going to do it for?

That's the thing. It's an algorithm. So that was definitely something I was conscious of. This is maybe one of the last decisions I really made because I was deciding to walk into the unknown. Like I didn't know exactly how many pills I'd be taking, what my protocol would be, how many blood draws would I be going into? It was really, am I okay, revoking my conscious mind for making this decision making and stepping into the unknown. So what does your life look like now on a day to day basis?

So this was establishing, you know, the first 30 days was really just the trial. And so I'm, we're still in the process of figuring out, you know, what I'm, we're still in the process of personalizing essentially to my data. But what I do is I try and get 100% sleep every single night. I do perfect nutrition. So I eat the same thing as Brian every single day. So that's 1,700 calories, perfectly mapped out.

And then I take over 60 supplements every single day and I aim to get a certain amount of cardio and strength training and exercise in every week. How's it been good? It was really difficult. It was much more difficult than I expected it to be. Why?

The process of doing blueprint is really about measurement, intervention, and measurement again. So when we did my baseline measurements, there were a couple things that became apparent. One is that people observed me from the outside, and this is how I observed myself as well, so it's not a common other people, but that if things look okay from the outside, things must be okay on the inside too. And so I had a lot of people like saying to me, oh, usually it must be healthy, because you look healthy, so you must be fine.

My baseline fitness testing, for example, put me on an average of age 60 or age 70, just based on my flexibility, my strength, my cardiovascular, health, all those kinds of things.

My blood work, for example, a few things came back off, which is to be expected like my vitamin D, my zinc, which is easy to fix. But then my oxidized LDL came back high, which is extremely concerning because I'm only 27 years old. And these are the kinds of flags that you see early on that can lead to things like stroke or a buildup in your arteries that can lead to really serious health consequences. So there were a couple of things in those baseline tests, for example, that had a red flag. Then throughout the process, I would say that

Because all of a sudden you're given this huge task of looking after yourself to perfection, you come face to face with the things that are in the way of living a better life, so you're self-destructive tendencies. For me, day one, I had three different existential crisis moments where my whole life crumbled down because you come face to face with things that are in your way that you had never had to deal with before.

So, you know, Brian talks about evening Brian, the Brian that, you know, over 8 between 5 and 7 p.m. or 10 p.m. every day. For me, it's priority Kate.

I didn't realize before I did blueprint that my whole life has been structured around helping other people and never focusing on myself. It was like, I was completely blind to the fact that any opportunity I get, I would deflect for myself and be like, how are you doing? What can I do for you? Because I realized that I didn't have a relationship with self where

If other people couldn't see it, I just neglected it. So in like little things, it meant that I would schedule meetings back to back and I wouldn't make time to, you know, use the restroom or eat or have proper sleep. Um, and then 10 p.m. would roll around and finish work. And the only thing that was left open was McDonald's. And so that's what I would eat for dinner. Um, or, you know, if, if a friend, if I committed to hang out with them on a weekend, there was no way I was going to, you know,

say that I can't do that anymore just to get enough sleep, because ultimately I cared more about the other people's perceptions than my own actual well-being. People, please are. Yes. People, please are. Big time. And to do blueprint, it sounds like it's the antithesis of people pleasing.

Yeah, I would say so. And it's kind of like that, you know, Brian references this, but the airplane example where you want to put your own mask on for you can help others. So, you know, in this process, I've slowly learned that I am functioning better and I can actually do more of that people pleasing in a weird way anyway, by looking after myself first. What have been the, although it's just been 90 days, what have you noticed? Changes?

So as far as actual results and data, it was very straightforward. Everything improved very much across the board. So my restorative sleep increased by 19% in 30 days. My flexibility improved, my strength improved, like my leg press one rep max went from 220 pounds to 360 pounds in 30 days.

I did a VO2 Max testing, so my body's ability to use oxygen. When I first did it at the start of 30 days, I was put at the 51st percentile. So if you look at like an age graph, you'd be able to predict exactly where age I am. That was spot on average. And then after 30 days, I had increased into the top 7% of fitness for my age and gender, which is huge for me because I am someone who has never excised a day in my life before this. I'd never gone on runs. I hated the gym. I'd never been trained in the gym. It was just something that was like,

the antithesis of anti-cate, you know. So yeah, huge, huge changes on my end. And my blood work improved. We're still waiting on my oxidized LDL to come back, but generally everything looks really good. What's your take on that and things that have improved and the changes you've seen in that?

I think the most interesting and entertaining was the existential crises where they became so frequent. I would send her messages just like in a joke in fashion like, hey, like, I hope your existential crisis is going well today. How can I help? But she really was, I applaud her because she jumped in with both feet and she was willing to share the entirety of her internal experience. So she didn't try to

camouflage, any of her pain. She didn't try to be tougher than she was. She was just open and transparent about the entire process. I think that people around us, the entire team, and those observing drew a lot of inspiration because she was open about everything, about what she was struggling with internally. She was willing to step into the problem. She didn't miss a single day.

And that's hard. Like there's a lot of motivation to quit or to take a day off. And so I am really pleased that she gave it a go and she prevailed. It would have been very easy for her to quit. Hey, you're 27. Yes.

sacrifice. Yeah. People think of 20, your 20s sacrifice, they think, going out partying. Did you do that stuff before? Did you like day, you know, all that kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely was big consideration for me. And like the other thing to add is blueprint, especially at the level we're trying to do this is a

full-time endeavor. And so you have to fit this into your existing lifestyle. And so it's really difficult. Even things like, you know, during that 30-day trial, we traveled for work. And I remember we got back one day and it was like 6 p.m. or something like that. And everyone was like zonked after being on the road for three days or something like that. And I was like, I gotta go exercise now, guys. And everyone was like, what? But that's the thing. Like, you know, my data, it demanded it. My body demanded it. And so I was going to do it. It wasn't about, you know, what I wanted in that moment or not. So

it is a very intense thing to commit to. As far as the socializing and all that kind of stuff, yeah, I was someone who would say up, I mean, I would say up working a lot of the time. I'm a grind culture child. I really did throw myself into it. So I would say that's probably the thing that changed the most. On the socializing thing, my friends have been so

Accommodating, you know, I, we'd go out for brunch still and I would bring my blueprint in and just sit at the table while, you know, other people are having their, you know, maybe their mimosas with orange juice in it. But yeah, I think there have been easy ways to make it fit into my life and the people around me have been really accommodating, which is lovely. What's been the biggest and the hardest sacrifice? The thing that you, you know, maybe on the difficult days you miss a little bit.

You know, so sad, but the first thing that comes to my mind is oatmeal clates. Like, it's such a typical, you know, young person now. But yeah, you know, there's like little, you realize you've come face to face the fact that a lot of life's small joys are baked into the things that you do on a routine basis. And so it just, it took me a while to remap those things. But now, no, I mean, I was, I was like a normal, normal person. Yeah. So drinks on the weekend with friends.

When you feel a little bit guilty, if you quit doing this, after everything the team have invested in you, Brian's faith in you, does that not feel like a bit of a pressure?

Yes, it does. However, this was also you can't let those things drive you when you're on blueprints. So for example, I halfway through my, my 30 day period, I started to really not feel great. And I would watch my heart rate, you know, as you get better exercises, exercise, your fitness improves. It's hard to get your heart rate up. And I was going against this metric of, I need to get my heart rate over 173 beats per minute to hit this figure.

heart rate zone to get my markers up. And I was pushing myself and pushing myself. I was, you know, I document adult this all, you know, throughout YouTube channel and whatnot. But I was at this point where I was crying on the weekend and I was like, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I think I have to give up because I just couldn't get my heart rate up.

And it took me a second to realize that priority Kate had snuck in again, but in this really subtle, you know, back door kind of way where I was holding myself to this expectation of I needed to do these very intense things. So I could prove to the public that I can do this. I'm going to be, you know, this blooper in XX. When in reality,

The blueprint way is actually stop, look at the data. And if I had done that, I really would have seen that my, my HIV was down or recovery was down, like my body was asking for a break, but my conscious mind was stepping in and saying, you need to prioritize the viewpoint of others and how they're going to think of you and make sure you just hit these goals regardless of what the data says. So I think that to answer your question, if I'm people pleasing in that way, I just get in my own way. But if you stop and look at the data,

That's where actually the inside comes from. Why did, Brian, why did you want hate to do this? Did you want her to do it? And if so, why?

Um, you know, we talked about this extensively and I told Kate that there was no pressure, no expectation that it was entirely her decision that she could think through it. Uh, there were other people that could certainly fulfill the role. So it was Kate's call to do it. And even when she was doing it, it was entirely her decision, whether she wanted to continue. And so I made it very, very clear there was no pressure, no, uh, overriding assumption that was not being explained, uh, communicated. So that's why I think the,

The shift in transition from grand culture to taking care of one's health is there's so many layers. People are very fast to come up with excuses and reasons why they don't want to do it. And I think by Kate doing this, it was a transparent reveal of everything she had stacked up that was stopping her from doing that.

And I thought it'd be interesting because she understood the intricacies of the endeavors so thoroughly. And she also was aware of how we were communicating to this. And she had this vantage point that was really unique. So I thought it'd be she'd be a perfect candidate to do it. But again, no obligation entirely her call if she thought this would be a good move for her. OK, link once if you're being held hostage. Do you want to die?

I want to have the opportunity to live. You want to have the opportunity to live? That's very intentional because he said he doesn't want to die. You might have seen on the shirt. What's the new answer there? I don't mind the idea of death. If it happens, it happens. But I would love to be able to spend each minute living as much as possible. And so that's what this is for me.

I'm on the same page with you. I'm not scared of dying. I don't think you're scared of dying, are you, Brian? You're not scared of dying. But when I like the opportunity to live on, I would like the opportunity to live on. But I do also think that what makes life enjoyable is the scarcity. The fact that I'm me sitting here now is me choosing not to do everything else is why this is so special.

Totally agree. Also, I find this idea of the fear of death and people kind of like barking at that. It's interesting to me, because I think if anything is more rational to fear, I would say it's death. Out of all the fears I could have in life, fear of death is probably one that I would choose to have. That makes sense to me. I'd love to really want to live every single second of the day.

Yeah, same. How would you think about what we just said, that the fact that we are going to die creates the specialness in the life that we have? I don't think we know what we're talking about. Okay, I do understand. I think I lose everybody. Kate is a much more relatable person. She says things that people are like, that's sensible. And I understand that. And I say something people are like, that's really weird. I'm not quite sure to do with that. But I really...

I really am trying very hard to be more understandable, to be more relatable and have these viewpoints, but I can't seem to land this idea that it's possible we are so primitive in our current way of being that we wouldn't even dare ask ourselves our own opinions about anything.

When you talk about this, playing it forward into the future and asking future civilizations about us or then playing it backwards, that does help me understand it. Because if you'd gone a million years backwards and asked them about us, they never would have been able to predict this incredible world. And we're probably living like four times longer than they did anyway. Since we've, since we last spoke, is there anything that's been on your mind that you, uh, you think is important as an update for the listeners who listened to the last episode?

Yeah, I mean, it was a fun couple months. We had gene therapy. I published a book and we, Kate completed her 90 days of first female on Blueprint doing the full program. We made available for free the entirety of the recipes of Blueprint. So we basically, we've made for free

The dietary protocol, all the exercises, all the supplements, a book, basically what I hope is we've given a blueprint for the future evolution of being human and we've made everything available for free for everyone all over the world. Wow. And what comes next? The best is yet to come. Yeah, we've got a couple of fun projects. Just give me one. Let's see.

It's another gene therapy. Okay. Yeah. To do what? To extend life? I mean, if we really are trying to punch through the ceiling, then we, you can only do so much with diet, sleep and exercise. And we've kind of mastered those things. So now we're trying to level up on more powerful therapies. Exciting. Look for a tearing. The question that's been left for you in the diary is, dear next guest, as you look back on the interview right now,

What's one thing you wish you said or did differently? Yeah. Okay. I don't know if I did this justice. So I want to, I want to communicate with more clarity that regardless of the data and how I feel and all these kinds of things, the thing that I always come back to on whether or not this is the right decision for me as in blueprint is

And who's doing a better job of looking after Kate? Is it current Kate or past Kate? And I would argue that even if it's only a marginal improvement, it's worth taking this step toward looking after oneself just a little bit better. And so that's how I feel about this whole process is like, no, I know based on the data, I know based on my subject of experience based on any other metric that I'm doing a better job now than I was previously. So which case happier?

I think Kate has no control over her and happiness. And so I almost never try to optimize her happiness. When Brian sat down, he said, I'm the happiest I've ever been. Yeah. Is this the happiest you've ever been? Yes. Yeah. Go ahead. This Kate's happier than old Kate.

Yes. But I would say that Kate always is biased to saying that Kate is always the happiest in any given moment. Kate is generally a very optimistic and happy person. And it's the blueprint different for women than it is for men because there's different sort of hormonal and physiological elements to men and women.

Yeah, that's what we're currently in the process of figuring out. So it took Brian, like two, three years and millions of dollars to get his protocol stabilized. So we're currently in that process of figuring out how we tuning it to my hormones and levels and tracking my data. So we're in a very exciting period. Have you kept account of how many millions of dollars it's cost you to do this?

Yeah, at the accounting. It's probably three to four at this point. The majority of that has been on the measurement protocols. It's the scientific research. It's like trying to get your head around everything that's ever been published, get that structured in a way that's actionable than doing the measurement. But the actual implementation is very cheap. This is the thing is someone made a comment through the day that this is the most impactful humanitarian project ever, in that the more values being delivered and more people

And I love the frame that it's a species-wide evolutionary plan. And we're launching a product. So one of the biggest questions we've received, like this is one of the more exciting things we have going on, is

When we did Blueprint, started Blueprint, it was never to make money. We never had a commercial plan. We never had some sneaky idea. It was just like we wanted to pursue the boundaries of science. And then it became a thing. And people are like, make this easy because I want to do it, but I want to spend the time. And so over the past few months, we've created a Blueprint product stack. And I think that we'll be ready to launch in 90 days or so. I think it will be competitive with the most nutritious

product in history. Interesting. And it's a supplement. It's a powders and pills, food, supplement, extra virgin olive oil. It's a whole bunch of stuff. It's basically, I think we'll be able to deliver to people at a lower cost. Whether we succeeded in this or not, whether we succeeded at the number one spot, I like the idea that we're competing with the best, the best

most nutritious food product ever built in human history. And I like that we are at least competing for that slot. And so I think it would make sense for the UN to be putting blueprint into the hands of people and then anything else out there. And so that's exciting that we're just rounding the corner from this novel idea to this bowl scale, humanity wide conversation on what can we become and basically trying to purge from our society.

the self-destruction that we've embedded within it. Hey, I've got one more question for you before, Brian Owens, is the book question. Yeah, just the one of one. Go ahead, you want to take it? Can you tell me something that you disagree with Brian on? That's actually really, really hard because I think we agree on those things. We typically see the world from pretty different perspectives. We reconcile them ultimately, but we definitely view the world meaningfully different.

Yeah. Yeah, I really see myself as an operations manager for humanity, not because like, I just find that that's a role that we have not really tackled as a species yet, you know, being able to see the systems that underlie humanity at this huge scale. And so nutrition is one of these things like we, you know,

This blueprint stack that we're working on, it's almost like your, your mom has packed you a lunch box and said, here's the basics of what your body has requested for today. Like go out, have a great day. You know, you've got a budget to go and have fun in this specific kind of way, but just like, here's what you need at a basic level. I think it's only a small, you can, you can change the world with a small couple of small changes like that that we just haven't thought about on that efficient level.

If you're the operations manager in humanity, what is Brian? Brian is the visionary behind pushing this. I mean, when I met... It was such a good opportunity to roast me. It was like teed up because it's dumped on me. What did it mean? It was like a moment for you to dunk on me. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. That's... Yeah.

Okay. So Brian, your question then. So I will see. Where can I speak to camera? Which one? Okay. Great. I'd say.

Last time I was on the podcast, hi everyone, nice to see you. You were all so kind to me in the comments on our last video together. I've become accustomed to get pretty beat up about pretty much everything all the time. There were so many of you who were so generous and kind and charitable and compassionate, and I just really appreciate you.

I read all the comments. I find it to be a really informative source about what I'm doing well to communicate what I'm struggling on. And I appreciate your generosity with me as I stumble through how to communicate ideas that make sense in my mind, but then they don't land as clearly as others. But I appreciate that you're willing to entertain the discussion. And yeah, I was really

touched by how you're kindness. So you've developed a powerful community that of highly intelligent, compassionate, engaging people. And I appreciate being a member of that because it's these topics are hard and it's easy to lob insults and make derogatory comments. It's just so easy to try to pick that off as the form of communication. And this community did not, they took a different path and it was really encouraging to read.

You read every comment. I read most of them. Does that do it? Does any of it ever hurt you? Just collected a whole bunch of mean tweets for YouTube video. We have coming out soon. Brian reading mean tweets. And honestly, I don't think I've ever seen Brian more happy than reading mean tweets. He absolutely loves it.

I did notice that on Twitter, I was like, he really loves engaging with this stuff. How have you got yourself to that place mentally where you can read someone saying just the worst thing about you and seemingly spin it into a joke and apparently really genuinely not care? Yeah. Not only do I not care, I love it. Why? I mean, why do I do? Why do I love it? I mean, it's really beyond my comprehension. I don't know.

I mean, and maybe, you know, like another times in my life, maybe I would have been more sensitive to it, but I mean, people work so hard at making the absolute most cutting insult they can generate. I know they spend a lot of time doing these things, and I appreciate the effort. I mean, like, it's great. I'm not sure why, but it brings me genuine happiness. I would wager that Brian

Brian, I love people that don't realize how thoughtful he is. Every second behind the scenes, he's constantly thinking about other people and what they're going to think. So I feel like you've actually explored all of these roasts in your own head. And so to witness them come to life is just like, oh, fun. People are having fun with me. Like, it's great. Interesting. Gosh.

I do think that, Brian. I do think that you're very, very thoughtful. I even notice it in the way you answer questions you take a pause often, and people don't typically do that. They just give the answer. And then if you two even say to some questions, I don't know is again a sign of that thoughtfulness. But I always also think people that are that sort of neurotic and thoughtful and always thinking in their head. I think they must be a little bit tortured in some way like it. It can't be a pleasant experience to be

that intelligent and thinking about that many things that often because you're going to end up thinking about some things that aren't so great. Yeah. You know what I mean? If you can, if you have that ability to think, you know, I think that about Elon a little bit as well, like he, he speaks about being a young man that had like an existential crisis and, and made him depressed. And then he watched Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and that kind of got him out of his depression, but

Being that intelligent and thoughtful comes with a cost now. I certainly am familiar with torturing myself. I've been in times in my life, the majority of my life, I actually vigorously tortured myself.

And it's only been in the past few years in conjunction with blueprint where I have been rid of that torture. And I think also when people make these biting comments to me, they don't even compare with the comments I make to myself. I mean, I am in previous versions of me. I was brutal to myself in ways. And of course, I know all of my

I know the underbelly of, you know, so I know how to make the most abiding comment to myself. And so I'd say after experiencing that, anyone else trying to tear me down, just like it's totally insignificant. It doesn't mean anything to me. This is the thing like, if we, I guess I'll be sincere for a moment is if, like, how lucky are we to exist in this moment? And if we're really trying to figure out how we have the most fulfilling existence,

Prioritizing our health and wellness of getting good sleep and eating well and avoiding bad things changes your existence. You want different things. You think about different things. You respond differently to people's comments. You're a different human. And this is in some ways why I don't trust. So first, I don't trust any of my own responses, but I trust even less.

other people's responses who are half dead, when they're not sleeping well, when they have bad habits, they aren't thinking clearly. We know this from science that you become inebriated. And so that's why when I think about humanity, do we, are we actually of the right mind of clarity to say anything about our wants and desires?

And I think we're all just drunk on addiction and we just can't see our way through this thing. And so when we say, I want this or want that or whatever, I don't believe it. We're not our best mindset right now and we don't trust our own judgment. And this is, it's hard for us to comprehend that because we have to trust ourselves on a daily basis doing these things and to take a step back and be like,

Could I be wrong about basically everything? Take so much courage to even contemplate. And it's offensive to most people's minds, but really I think it's where we are best to be there to question all these things. And this is how I stumble in these conversations. Like I know even in talking with you today, I know when I say certain things to you, they don't resonate, right? You're like kind of see your point, but like really this path makes much more sense to me.

And yes, I'm really trying to improve at this game. It's a hard one. There's one story here I'll share. It's my favorite one. So there's a captain navigating the ocean and receives a communication, change course 30 degrees north. The captain radios back, you change your course 20 degree south.

gets a radio back, no, immediately change 30 degrees north. Now at this point, the captain is irritated. Yeah, his authority, their authority's been challenged. So the captain radio's back. This is fleet commander, so-and-so of the battalion, so-and-so, whatever, change 30 north. And of course, this has always worked for that person. Always use force and authority and bowling to get whatever their objective is. And the communication comes back, I'm a lighthouse, change course 20 south.

In this conversation as a species, we are the fleet commander, our minds are the fleet commander. We believe we can bully our way through any conversation. Is the future worth living? I'll tell you right now. Do I want this cigarette? I'll tell you right now. Do I want to sleep versus something else? I'll tell you our mind has an infinite depth of answers and it knows all things.

I think the future could potentially be a lighthouse. When we offer up a response about something we want, feel, think, imagine, whatever, our tactic that has always worked for us in the past so we can just bully our way through all things is somehow not going to work anymore because it's a lighthouse. And that's what the future feels like to me is we cannot use the tactics that have worked for us in the past, that the circumstances have changed so radically

the old rules don't apply, a new game is coming. And like, sure, we don't know what's gonna happen. And sure, we don't know if it's even positive or negative. We don't even know if we'll have a conception of positive or negative. Like maybe those ideas will even go away. Like we have no clue whatsoever what our existence would be like. And this is like why purging society of this stuff is interesting to me. Like, why would we not wage war right now? Like wage war on this. It's ruining our chances of the future.

Even something like the Halloween holiday excursions. Why are we contributing to the dying of our children by giving them sugar as they walk around from house to house? Like, how are we this foolish? Got our Halloween sponsor.

No it's not. No it's true though but that's the way we design society but I'm hopeful about that because conversations like this and all the podcasts out there that are having these conversations are changing the dial. I've seen an evolution in myself over the last 12 months of doing this, the types of subjects we're talking about and sugar and ultra processed foods and sleep and all of these things.

So if it's gently nudging me, I'm convinced it's gently nudging my listeners and there's more shows like this all around the world. And we're all kind of becoming awakened to it because we're feeling the symptoms, the symptoms of that discontent, the depression, the inflammations killing everybody and cardiovascular diseases. So I think it feels like there's a slow but certain uprising in society. I agree. I feel that I perceive the same thing.

Thank you so much, Brian. Thank you so much, Kate. Really appreciate you sharing that with me. So interesting. And I really hope we can have this conversation again when you hit more milestones. Everybody needs to go and get the extra virgin olive oil, because as I said, everybody's been raving about this extra virgin olive oil. But as I said a second ago, I really, really trust yours. So that will be the one that I'm stocking in my house. Thank you, Brian. Thanks for having us.

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