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    #1 Gut Health and why we need to throw out the rule-book with Professor Tim Spector

    enJanuary 19, 2018

    Podcast Summary

    • From bones to genetics, and nutritionProfessor Spector's diverse career led him to explore the complex links between genetics, environment, and health, with a focus on nutrition and the microbiome.

      Professor Spector, a medical doctor, genetic epidemiologist, and author, shares how his diverse career led him to explore the links between genetics, environment, and health. He discusses his transition from studying bones and joints to studying twins, genetics, epigenetics, and eventually, gut health and nutrition. His personal health experience and the realization of the importance and complexity of nutrition and the microbiome led him to write "The Diet Myth" and focus on this area of research. The conversation highlights the importance of staying curious, adapting to new discoveries, and understanding the interconnectedness of various aspects of health.

    • Understanding the complex relationship between gut health and overall wellbeingWhile the gut microbiome can impact various aspects of health beyond digestion, the exact mechanisms and applications are still being researched. Be cautious of overstatements and misinformation, and consult reliable sources to separate fact from fiction.

      The gut microbiome and its influence on health is a rapidly evolving field with exciting potential, but it's important to approach the information with a critical mindset. While there is evidence that gut health can impact various aspects of our wellbeing beyond digestion, such as mood and joint health, the exact mechanisms and applications are still being researched. The hype surrounding the topic can lead to overstatements and misinformation, so it's crucial to recognize the limitations and potential downsides. There's no one-size-fits-all solution, and the microbiome's complexity means that what works for one person might not work for another. As the field continues to advance, it's becoming more integrated into mainstream medicine, but it's essential to stay informed and consult reliable sources to separate fact from fiction.

    • New Discovery of the Interstitium: Impact on Health and NutritionFocus on real, unprocessed or minimally processed food for optimal gut health and long-term wellbeing. Adapt to unique gut microbiomes and embrace food diversity.

      The discovery of a new organ in our bodies, the interstitium, which produces hormones and influences our health, is set to change our perspective on many diseases and nutrition. The macronutrient debates, focusing on fat or carbs being the villain, are outdated. Instead, the key to good health lies in consuming real, unprocessed or minimally processed food that nurtures our microbiome and optimizes gut health for our environment. The importance of real food and diversity in our diets, as well as adapting to our unique gut microbiomes, are crucial for long-term health. The Japanese population, for instance, has high rates of longevity due to their consumption of unprocessed, local, seasonal foods. By focusing on real food and understanding the evolving process between our food and our bodies, we can move beyond the outdated myths and dogmas in nutrition.

    • Maintaining a Healthy Gut Microbiome with Dietary Diversity and Traditional FoodsDietary diversity and traditional foods, rich in fiber, support a healthy gut microbiome. The Hadza tribe, a modern hunter-gatherer community, demonstrates this through their high fiber intake and connection to their environment.

      Dietary diversity and connection to traditional foods and environments play a significant role in maintaining a healthy gut microbiome. The cheaper and more processed foods, often consisting of soy, wheat, and sugar, limit this diversity and hinder optimal gut health. The Hadza tribe, a modern hunter-gatherer community, offers valuable insights. They have a high fiber intake, which fills them up and supports the growth of diverse gut bacteria. Fiber is crucial as it is the best food source for these beneficial microbes. The Hadza also demonstrate that good gut health is not limited to the wealthy; they thrive on the foods their ancestors have eaten for generations. Additionally, their environment, which is rich in various microbes, contributes to their gut health. Overall, embracing dietary diversity, consuming traditional foods, and focusing on fiber intake can lead to a healthier gut microbiome.

    • The Importance of Fiber in Maintaining Good HealthFiber, found in foods like Jerusalem artichokes, leeks, onions, garlic, less white bananas, and the diet of tribes like the Hadza, promotes a diverse microbiome and contributes to overall health without conscious effort.

      Fiber, though not commercially interesting, plays a crucial role in maintaining good health by promoting a diverse microbiome. Foods high in inulin, such as Jerusalem artichokes, leeks, onions, garlic, and less white bananas, are particularly beneficial. The Hadza tribe, living in Tanzania, naturally consume high levels of fiber through their diet, which includes tubers and various wild berries, rich in fiber and polyphenols. These foods provide a natural source of fiber, contributing to their overall health without conscious effort. The Hadza's lifestyle and diet, passed down through generations, offer valuable insights into the importance of fiber and its role in promoting good health. In contrast, Western diets lack sufficient fiber due to the focus on low-fat and low-sugar processed foods. It's essential to recognize that fiber is more than just a bulking agent; it plays a significant role in maintaining a healthy microbiome and potentially preventing chronic diseases.

    • Eating a variety of colorful fruits and vegetables supports gut health and overall well-beingConsuming a diverse range of real foods, especially colorful fruits and vegetables, increases polyphenol intake and promotes microbial diversity, supporting immune system function, heart health, and overall well-being.

      Consuming a diverse range of real foods, particularly vegetables, is essential for a healthy gut microbiome. This diversity leads to the consumption of various types of fiber, which in turn supports a wider range of beneficial microbes. Polyphenols, a type of plant nutrient, play a crucial role in this process. They are released during digestion and interact with microbes to produce beneficial chemicals that can support various health functions, including immune system function and heart health. Eating a variety of colorful fruits and vegetables is an effective way to increase polyphenol intake and promote microbial diversity. This simple concept can be applied to daily life, such as encouraging children to eat five different colored vegetables each day. Polyphenols, often referred to as phytonutrients or antioxidants, are now understood to be key chemicals produced by plants that have various health benefits. They are released during digestion and interact with microbes to produce useful chemicals, which can support immune system function, relax vessel walls for heart health, and send signals to the brain, among other things. Consuming a diverse range of real foods, particularly colorful fruits and vegetables, is essential for optimal gut health and overall well-being.

    • Discovering the Power of Polyphenols and FiberEmbrace a diet rich in polyphenols from colorful fruits, veggies, tea, coffee, dark chocolate, red wine, and the Mediterranean diet. Fiber and polyphenols, found in similar foods, are essential nutritional pillars for good health.

      Understanding the importance of polyphenols and fiber in our diet can lead us to make healthier food choices. Kids intuitively grasp this concept, but many adults need to unlearn preconceptions and learn to think critically in the era of conflicting advice. Polyphenols can be found in a variety of foods, including brightly colored fruits and vegetables, as well as tea, coffee, dark chocolate, and red wine. The Mediterranean diet, which emphasizes high-fat foods like olive oil, is beneficial due to its high polyphenol content. Fiber and polyphenols are two essential nutritional pillars, and many foods rich in polyphenols also contain high levels of fiber. Local sourcing and self-sufficiency are also important for accessing fresh, nutrient-dense foods and helping kids connect with nature.

    • Four pillars of health: food, movement, sleep, and relaxationUnderstanding the interconnected impact of food, movement, sleep, and relaxation on our overall health, including gut health, is crucial for optimal well-being. Personal experiences highlight the importance of prioritizing these pillars in our unique contexts.

      The four pillars of consciously thinking about food, movement, sleep, and relaxation have a profound impact on our overall health, including our gut health. The body is interconnected, and each pillar influences the others. For instance, our food choices can impact our microbiome, while lack of sleep or excessive stress can negatively affect our gut. The gut-brain axis is a two-way process, meaning our gut microbes can influence our body's genes and vice versa. While it may be easier to control our food intake than stress levels, it's essential to understand the complex interplay between all four pillars and apply principles that work best in our unique contexts. Personal experiences, such as the speaker's 16-year journey with patients and their own family, underscore the importance of prioritizing these pillars for optimal health.

    • European doctors prescribe probiotics with antibiotics, but the UK is reluctantEuropean doctors mitigate antibiotic side effects with probiotics, while the UK hesitates to adopt this approach, potentially harming long-term gut health for antibiotic users

      The use of antibiotics, while essential for treating bacterial infections, can have unintended consequences on our gut microbiome. Doctors in Europe, particularly in France, have been addressing this issue by prescribing probiotics alongside antibiotics to mitigate adverse effects. However, this approach is not widely adopted in the UK. A review of studies published in the BMJ suggests that probiotics can be beneficial for various conditions, particularly for young kids, the elderly, and those taking antibiotics. The UK's reluctance to embrace probiotics may be due to a lack of champions and skepticism towards the field. It's crucial that doctors and healthcare systems start considering probiotics as an essential part of treatment, especially for those on antibiotics, to minimize the long-term effects on gut health. The lack of standardized trials and government-run studies complicates the issue, but it's time for a shift in attitude towards antibiotics and the importance of gut health.

    • Reducing unnecessary medical interventions and promoting preventionIncorporating diverse fiber sources, focusing on polyphenol-rich foods, and giving the gut a rest through mindful eating habits can improve individual and population health outcomes.

      Recognizing and addressing unnecessary medical interventions, such as antibiotics during childbirth, and promoting a culture that values prevention over intervention, can significantly improve individual health and population health outcomes. Another key takeaway is the importance of understanding the complex relationship between the gut and overall health, and the potential benefits of individualized approaches to improving gut health through diet, fiber intake, and polyphenol consumption. The ongoing research in this field suggests that there is still much to learn, but incorporating diverse fiber sources, focusing on polyphenol-rich foods, and giving the gut a rest through mindful eating habits are practical steps individuals can take to support their gut health. Additionally, the future holds exciting possibilities with advancements in microbiome screening and personalized nutrition.

    • Listening to your body's hunger signals and practicing intermittent fastingEmbrace diversity in diet, try new foods, and listen to your body's unique needs for optimal health. Break free from frequent, small meals and consider trying intermittent fasting.

      Paying attention to your body's hunger signals and practicing intermittent fasting can have numerous health benefits. The speaker emphasized that not everyone needs to eat breakfast and that it's important to listen to your body's unique needs. He also highlighted the importance of embracing diversity in your diet and trying new foods to keep your taste buds and microbes excited. While many cultures have established meal times like elevenses and afternoon tea, the speaker noted that in America, we stand out for our emphasis on frequent, small meals. He encouraged listeners to break their habits and try something new each week. Overall, the conversation emphasized the importance of listening to your body and being open to new experiences when it comes to food and nutrition.

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    DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.




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    Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/452


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    Hi, I'm Dr. Richard Visser. I spent my whole life in the pursuit of health, wellbeing, and longevity. In this podcast, I will take you on a journey through the wilderness of scientific research and experiential knowledge. Together, we will clear a path towards optimal health, wellbeing, and longevity. I'm excited to share my methods, knowhow, and experience with you. So please join me on the Visser podcast. In today's podcast, which is our third, will be continuing our talks about the microbiome. And this is kind of post introduction, post the first encounter. And the first encounter is at birth through the vaginal canal, our birthing process. That's where we get bathed with our first set of microbiome. Super important. If you do a cesarean section or there isn't another way, then talk to your physician about fecal matter transplant or vaginal fluid transplant to the baby so that the baby does get that first inoculation that is so needed further. And we've discussed this in the last episode. You can review that if you need to. We've discussed a lot of things there that are important. But moving on, we're really looking at, okay, so what's next for the child, the baby until before they reach puberty. And it's key that they get exposed. They need environmental antigens, playing in the dirt, getting dirty, eating some dirt, you name it. We cannot be hyper cleanly with the kids. This is key. And I know we're in an age of post COVID or post heavy COVID continues in this age. We're used to just cleaning our hands, sanitizing over sanitizing over and over again, and this is killing the microbiome. So let's not have this happen to our kids. Let's not do this to our kids. Our kids need to be exposed at the earliest age to as much as possible so they can create their diverse microbiome, which will protect them, protect them against food allergies, protect them against changes in chemicals in their brain that basically signal, hey, I need to eat more. I need to eat more. Obesity, changes in the mood through the serotonin that's produced with the microbiome. We're looking at changes in the immune diseases, autoimmune diseases, protection against Lupus, Hashimoto, et cetera. Really, this is key. The research is just starting here, but the indicators show us that these are real things that we're dealing with. So it's important to really step up as parents at a younger age and really expose our children to the environment, have these environmental antigens be their lessons, their teachers, they're boosting their immune system. So we really need to do this. When we look at food and gut diversity and why it matters, well, it matters because when we look at the connection of a diverse gut and not a diverse gut, we see stuff like in a gut that's not diverse, we see obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, arterial stiffness, irritable bowel syndrome, allergies, colitis, rheumatoid arthritis, Parkinson's, depression, autism. All these things can come from a non functioning or bad functioning microbiome. So we really, really have to tend to our garden, to our microbiome. And we're going to talk a little bit about how we do this. But first there are other chemicals that influence our microbiome, heavily influence our microbiome. One of them is antibiotics. The intake, especially the early age. I'm a prime example. I was a premie and in the incubator, started with antibiotics, had allergies, had respiratory problems, had asthma, had allergies against dust, animals, dander, you name it. I ended up rotting out my baby teeth because of the antibiotics. And this just went on and on and on to where I was a mess, I was a mess. At an early age, I really had to build myself up from scratch and I still have the remnants of that. So good start is key, the opposite of what I did. That's why this is so important. And obesity is one of these things. So when we look at emulsifiers preservatives in our food, artificial sweeteners and other additives no good for a microbiome. Not only that, but with artificial sweeteners we're seeing an example of sucralose, we're seeing a spike in our glycemic index. So yes, our body it's touted as. Yeah, it's not real sugar, but our body sees it as sugar triggers it and we got the same problems. So when I look at studies, one of the studies I love to look at is the Twin UK study, fiber microbiome study, that is the largest in twins. And the reason is because then you kind of, you know, you, you pull out the, the gene card because you're dealing with identical twins. So with 300 twins aged 30 to 80 followed for ten years. So ten years they've been, they're being studied. As they could see, most of them gained weight. The ones with high fiber intake had significantly less weight gain and visceral fat. So that's key. Each extra gram of fiber reduced the weight by 2 kg. So each extra gram of fiber in your diet consistently reduces your weight gain by 2 kg. That's significant weight changes and fiber correlated to microbial world diversity. So really the diversity was key with these twins. When we look at the twins, we also realize that the difference genetically so genetic differences with people accounts for 10% of the obese and lean. So it's not that huge. It is there, but it's not that huge. The microbiome is a much bigger identifier of the problem and kind of lets us know that we're in trouble when the diversity is low. So really this is where we have to look. When we look at these twins, we notice one other thing and that is we're always looking at glycemic index of foods and we need to, because it does have an effect, have a huge effect on our insulin, on our hormonal management and the hormonal management of what we eat and how we eat. Has a huge impact on how we gain weight, how we lose weight, how we're able to maintain weight. So the GI index is a great way to look at it. And the problem with the GI index is that it's been generalized. So it's been like, okay, all your starches soap, potato, rice, pasta wine, beer, et cetera, it's all going to give you a high spike, give you an insulin spike. But what we've seen is that we looked at a study with the twins again, and both of them had Prosecco to drink and they had a monitor, blood sugar monitor on. And it's funny, the more obese of the twins was the one that spiked really high. Like we're going pre-diabetic with the Prosecco and the leaner twin, no spike, didn't even do anything with their glycemic index. So indicating that the leaner twin had enough microbiome or a more diverse microbiome and could handle Prosecco in their bodies. And it didn't have the effect it had on the obese person. And we see this, we see people that can eat everything or almost everything, drink almost everything, and I'm not gain weight. And then some of us just look at bread and we're bloating. So this is another key that we've been missing in diet, where the simplest thoughts we had was energy and energy out. No, that's not just scratching the surface. It is a fact, but it's scratching the surface. There's so much more to play, and especially with the hormones. And now we're looking specifically at the GI interaction, the gut microbiome interaction, and it's huge. So what's the recommendation here? The recommendation here is that we all should be checked individually. And that means have your microbiome sequenced if you have that opportunity. If you don't have that opportunity, do a check, do a glycemic check, put a glucose monitor on and look at the foods that you like and the drinks that you like and see what it does, see which ones spike, see which ones don't. So you can really manage better what and how you eat. I might not spike with red wine. I like red wine, so that's perfect for me. I might spike with bread, probably spike with bread. And so I need to avoid bread. So this gives us a much better picture. We have to go at this individually, and the microbiome is super individualized. It's not only specific to geography that we come from, specific to how we ate when we were young and how we eat now, but also just individually complete different microbiome. So we have to look at this if we're going to solve any of these issues, whether it's obesity, whether it's chronic disease, whether it's autoimmune disease, whether it's mood, depression, anxiety, any of this stuff, we have to look at it individually. So that's the key. Looking at it individually, one of the other things, and talking about obesity, which is my specialty, one of the things that they looked at was getting two mice, and these mice were sterile. So no bacteria, no gut bacteria, nothing. So they could really see the effects. That's good and bad one, we can see the effects, but it doesn't mean it goes over to humans because we have so much more at play in a living human. But okay, it gives us a start. So what we're seeing here is that Crystala is an antifat bacteria which reduces weight gain after transplantation into the mice. Ackermancia does the same. So we saw these two mice. One is on the same diet, one got huge obese, the other one stayed nice and lean. So this gives us a clue where we need to be looking at these typical specific bacteria. Now, another thing that came up and another thing we spoke about in our last episode was fecal transplant. So they're also seeing that in mice with the fecal transplant, that the donor, the mice that actually the recipient mice starts being like the donor. So you get a lean mice that gives their stool to you, transplant the stool to the obese mice. The obese mice starts losing weight. So we're seeing that this is a trigger. So there's been for specific diseases, there's been pills developed, poop pills, stool from healthy individuals that people take in, and then it reduces recurrent bacterial infections. It's very effective of that we're looking at, does it affect the weight? The studies up to now has shown inconclusive, but there's potential there. So they keep looking, but we found that different diseases can be helped by this and it can be held better than the regulatory medical treatments or antibiotics. When we look at, I want to kind of have you see a picture of the large intestines. So just kind of a side view of the wall, of the large intestines. On the left side, up top, you're going to see the microbiome. Huge, colorful, full. I mean, we're talking trillions of these bacteria, virus, fungi, cells that are there that are helping us, that are creating the essentials that we need to survive the energy. And when they do create that, then it can pass the wall. And if we look at the wall, the green that's the thick, nice mucus wall that we have there to the internal cells of the large intestines to be absorbed. So when we look at this, we can see that this wall is key. We look at our next picture and we look at starving microbes. And this is the point I want to get to guess what starving microbes mean. They're not getting their fiber that they live off. They're not getting their fermented foods that they live off, et cetera. We're just doing a bad diet. It's a McDonald's diet or a fast food diet or just a bad diet. What we're seeing is that the microbiome needs to survive and start eating the wall. This is not good. When they start eating the wall, you know, it's not good. It's not good for our health. And it's because it's fiber deficient. So fiber deficiency only comes when we're consuming a lot of sugars, when we're consuming processed foods, and we get ourselves in trouble. So that's kind of where I want to go. The microbiome relies on complex carbohydrates to really feed itself and feed us. So it feeds itself, it stays healthy, which is beneficial to us because in return, it gives us what we need to survive and to thrive. So how does it do this? If we look at the complex carbohydrates, which are the fiber based foods, the fruits, vegetables, and I'll have some examples seeds, nuts, et cetera, they go to a microbial metabolite. They become microbial metabolites. They get processed by the microbe, and that eventually goes in our bloodstream, improves metabolism and our immune system. It has blood glucose control and satiety. So we really see that the functions of this are immense. And when we look at us eating simple sugars like cake and junk food and stuff, we see that the uptake is in the small intestines. It goes sucrose, starch, goes right into a circulation, spikes our glycemic index and causes havoc. So really, we need to watch this process. Really, we need to look at the importance of fiber. If we look at and we touched upon it, the geographical differences. I have a chart here that I got from this study that was done, and we're going to see that in the west, you'll see that, man, our diversity is small and poor. If we look at the other countries that aren't in the west, we see huge diversity. We see much healthier populations and a much healthier gut biome. And it's because they're eating from the land, they're eating non processed foods. And if you look at the industrial populations, you'll see that just degradation in the gut biome. And this is what we need to work on to stay healthy. Not to stay healthy. To stay healthy. It helps us in well being and longevity. So all three. It hits all three. So what do we what do we look at in time? In time, when we look 10,000 years ago? Huntergatherers our microbiome, huge, diverse, exactly how we want it. The agricultural era, which was 600 years ago, you see it already compacting, getting smaller industrial era, even smaller, processed, sanitized food. Oh, my God, it's tiny, causing more and more diseases, allergies, et cetera. You know it, you see it. So how do we optimize? How do we get this most important thing that we're dealing with? Is the gut microbiome up to par? Well, let's start with high fiber foods. We need to consume more high fiber foods, 40 grams plus a day. And we're looking here at seeds, beans, nuts. We're looking at fruits and vegetables raw. Look at it. We need to look at high fiber foods, and we need to be eating high fiber foods every single day. This feeds the microbiome. This keeps our microbiome healthy and keeps our bodies healthy. It is absolutely needed. Now, if we want to go to the next level, which is basically getting really pushing this diversity in our microbiome, we have to go to fermented foods. So again, the next level is fermented foods. We're talking keffer, we're talking yogurt. Yes, kefir is much better. Sauerkraut, kimchi Kombucha these are the things that we have to incorporate in our diet and find ways to incorporate it, because it's the only thing that really moves us forward in diversifying our microbiome. And a diversifying microbiome is where we get really healthy. This is what is really needed. So when we look at the fermented foods kefir, sauerkraut, cottage cheese, kimchi Kombucha gut shots, look at these. These are things we need. Fermented foods lead to decrease in inflammatory cytokines, really, the inflammation. Once these inflammatory cytokines go down, our state of health goes up. Less chances of chronic disease, less chances of issues with heart disease, et cetera. This is key for our health. So when we look at fermented foods and how they do different things to the colon, the large intestines, we look at the difference. When we see the fiber foods come in, we look at more microbes, better functioning, lower inflammation. If diversity is high, if diversity is high, it doesn't change diversity. When we look at the fermented food coming in, we're seeing actual higher diversity. And when I talk higher diversity, I mean, if 10% of fermented food brings in 10% more diversity, we actually see 90% more diversity come in. So it causes us to retain new microbiomes that weren't even introduced with the fermented foods. So the fermented foods basically helps us hold on, take care of a more diverse microbiome. So it increases it Ninefolds, and we're looking at a much lower inflammatory response, which is key. We've also seen a lot of advertisements on probiotics and prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics. Well, just to really go quickly over what this means, prebiotic is basically fiber. And like, has it shown to work yet? Shown to work if you already have a good diverse microbiome. So if you're already eating healthy, it helps. If you're not eating healthy, it doesn't help. So the research up to now shows this. If we're looking at probiotics, probiotics is actual introduction of the bacteria back into the gut. We're seeing that if you already have the bacteria, it doesn't do anything, it doesn't add to it. So it depends what bacteria you have. And so this is where a lot of people now are saying, okay, I need to sequence my microbiome so I know what I have and what I don't have, and I can add what I don't have in the specific probiotic. So that is a route we could take. The probiotic is good, and you should talk to your physician about this after coming off an antibiotic cure. So you need the probiotic to kind of reseed the microbiome population. And the postbiotic really is the metabolites and that of what the micro herbs are using. So it's bringing in the metabolites, which is okay. But I think with the key here being we need to go to fiber foods and we need to go to fermented foods. That's the key in a small recap birthing process. Super important. Make sure we do it good, do it right. Exposure to environmental antigens at an early age, meaning playing in the dirt, getting exposed to all the bacteria that are very important to create diversity. We know that to optimize our gut biome, we need to incorporate a lot of fiber and we need to incorporate fermented foods. When we're looking at our glycemic index, which is important for our diet, for maintaining our health and maintaining our weight, we really need to individualize this. We need to measure it, and we need to look at what triggers us. Can we drink wine? Can we eat cheese and not have to trigger a rice? So really individualize that to see what triggers you and what you can eat so that you can personalize your diet. And trust me, there's so many diets out there, most of them work well. Make sure you get your macros in, make sure you got your proteins in. As you age, you need to really be looking at holding muscle mass. That's the key to longevity and strength. So those are future topics, but that's on the horizon. And so in doing all this work, we have to really kind of redefine how we live, how we eat, and how we exercise. And so we're going to continue mixing it up a bit. And I'm going to start going more into exercise and continue into nutrition. And we're going to also go into mental health. So stay tuned. It's going to become more exciting and more exciting and it's all stuff we can use today. This is the idea to take the science, to look at what works in real life, to look at what's being done, what's being said, and how we can optimize our own health wellbeing and longevity. Thank you. Please subscribe, ring the bell for notification. See you next time.