In 1982, Atari players had one game on their minds, Sword Quest. Because the company had promised 150 grand in prizes to four finalists, but the prizes disappeared, leading to one of the biggest controversies in 80s pop culture. I'm Jamie Loftus. Join me this spring for the Legend of Sword Quest. We'll follow the quest for lost treasure across four decades.
Listen to the Legend of Sword Quest on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Nimminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.
Listen to historical records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akula Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the rebels, into something everyone in the South loves. The biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean?
It's right here in black and white and prints. They like it. Bigger than a flag or mascot. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The biggest conversations in my life, the scariest ones, won't even lead to like devastation. It just could potentially lead to like a moment of discomfort, of cringe or whatever. And it's worth it. The best-selling author on post. The number one health and wellness podcast. On purpose with Jay Shetty.
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. It means the world to me that we have this amazing community. And I've just been seeing the engagement, the connection that you're all having recently, all the Instagram posts, the TikTok posts, the posts on Twitter. It's unbelievable. Thank you so much for all the love. I really mean that.
And a guest comes along in a while, which I actually hear about from friends. And friends get fascinated. And I go, oh, I need to interview this person. And that's how I discovered today's guest. So I was sitting with a good friend of mine, Ellen DeGeneres. And she said to me that she just watched a special by Gerard Carmichael. And she said this special was so special to not be cliche. This special was so incredible that she was so moved by. And she was like, you have to have him on your show. You have to sit down with him. You have to talk to him.
And I was just like, okay, so I went and watched it. Went and checked him out. I was like, oh, this is incredible. This is really different to anything we've also done on the show. As you all know, we've only had a few stand-up comics and comedians on the show so far. You know, so it's really new for us as well. But in the two minutes that I've spent with this gentleman backstage before we go live, I'm already addicted to his personality, which is always a good sign. So please welcome to the show Emmy-nominated comedian Gerard Karmack or Gerard.
So good to see you. Thank you for doing this. Literally, it was Ellen. I was sitting in Ellen's house and I know she listens to the podcast. So Ellen, thank you for listening to the podcast. But when she listens to this, she was just like, you have to, and I think you went on the show too with her. Yeah, yeah. Last season, right? It was nice. I'd done it before, but it was nice to go back and yeah. She's a huge fan. I'm a fan of hers. I told her that obviously a comedian that comes out and is incredibly brave
You know, it's rare. And she was, um, at a time where it was really hard where you, you really, really got canceled for real. You know what I mean? Like actually like the show could get canceled, you know, like, um, and, and she was so brave and also incredibly good at her job. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's, yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I love it. Well, it brought us together, so that's what it's called. I mean, a few seconds ago, you were saying that you've been watching my stuff on Instagram, but when I look at you, you're very private on social media, and you don't post a lot. I wanted to understand, was that intentional? Is that? I got my little private IG that is so weird. Someone called me out on it. It was like, you're private and verified, and like, it's silly. It's really, like, my publicist, like, set it up.
with the intention of like posting about shows and the like and I'm someone who doesn't want attention unless like I asked for it. I'm probably the worst celebrity. Whatever ever because I never really chased it. I really just like to work and then present fat and that's pretty much it. And like something like Instagram is really it is me. I wouldn't want to present like a false version of myself. So
I wouldn't want to be presentational, so I kind of close it off to just like, as of right now, maybe, but I don't know if I'll ever do it. I'll probably delete it before I open it, but like, I can be like more honest and like a control, like I can just post things that I would actually, I would actually text these things to everyone. And so I can remain truthful on Instagram and non-performance. I'm a performer who's trying to remain non-performance. How's that going?
Okay, it's okay. Yeah, no, I've become funnier, I think, on stage and stuff, by not performing, by being truthful. Yeah, I think it's a better version of myself. But yeah, it's hard. It's hard in life. It's hard to do that.
Well, that must feel very comforting, I can imagine, because I feel like for so many performers, there's someone on stage because that's their job, and then there's someone at home because that's who they are. And so there's always this conflict inside and outside.
What for you has been like the biggest impact on who you are today? Like if you had to say this is a recipe of how I was created, what would you add to that recipe to say like Gerard is a little bit of this and a little bit of that? Like what's sugar and spice? Yeah. Um, it's a big question. It's a big question. It's a huge question. Um, I don't know if I'll be able to fully answer it because like, you know, I'm influenced by, you know,
The time I'm in, who I am, being American, all of those things that we're all influenced by as a performer, influenced by, you know, everyone from Cosby to, you know, Jack Benny to, you know, to Rock and Chappelle and really good people, like people who are really good at their job. But lately I've been really influenced by just this drive to not lie,
You know, like to not lie and like it's made me a storyteller because then like just trying to, you know, tell things about me or things in my life that like are scary is funnier. I found for the work and being around people that I don't have to try and protect my words with is more comforting.
Yeah, when when when you were growing up, like, what was the environment for you growing up? We just took about North Carolina, which is where you were born and raised, right? So like, what was the environment like when you were growing up? And what, you know, for you, how early was it that you discovered that this was going to be a path in life? Because I think for me, I'm always intrigued to figure out how people discover things they're passionate about and things that they love, because that's so rare. How early was it for you? And what was the environment that you grew up in?
It was pretty early. I was a kid that performed a lot. I asked for a microphone every year at Christmas. That was my constant. I was obsessed with microphones as a kid. I sang on the choir even when I was up.
like three, my mom was an usher and she went after church, like I would cry and so she helped me up to the mic. So I could, I just like, I like it. I really respect it. It's powerful. It amplifies your voice. People listen to it like so intimately in a performance setting.
Even now, people are listening to this through headphones. It's so personal. And so my whole life, I've always felt that way. I've always filmed things. I've always written. I've always performed. And then I fought against it, I think, for a period. I was really encouraged by a friend to make the leap and move to LA.
and do that. I lived here for like 10 years. And I thought it was like arrogant because I do think asking for people's attention is precious. Like I try not to be like super precious in my work, but like
asking for their time like doing a show if I'm doing a show and I put up tickets and people spend money for tickets and then they drive out to the venue and they sit there and they wait for you and then they listen to you like that's that's asking a lot and so especially recently like just like respect that more you know like like I think I have the respect that has been growing in me since childhood for the nudging of a friend got me out to LA but
Yeah, I love performance. I love hearing that because I feel the same way that some people listen to this podcast every day. So they listen to the two new episodes and then they'll listen to old episodes. I'm thinking sometimes I'm in people's ears every week, five to seven hours a week.
And I'm thinking that is so, I'm so fortunate, right? Like there's so much gratitude around that, that someone allows you in to there, whether you're walking the dog right now, whether you're cooking, whether you're editing, whether you're cleaning, whatever you're doing at home right now.
And you said that you've always had that kind of like that belief that having someone's ears or eyes or money or them turning up is precious. Tell me about then, how does that lead into your creative process? Because I feel like for me, knowing that I just finished writing my second book, it took me two years to write it. And I put a lot of effort into it. And I know that when I've written a book, it's taken two years of my life to write it.
I'm putting it out after the creative effort is so high. Because A, the book pages don't change. You can't edit those pages once they're out. And someone's going to take their time. It takes like, potentially- But it's like written word. Written word, yeah. Like written word is so, I always thought it's crazy that Twitter uses the word publish.
Because it induces in me such anxiety, just thinking about how permanent it is and placing things out there that you can't get back. That's why if I'm going to perform, I think it's like I don't do social media because
I would like to put all of that energy in, and I don't even say I don't do social media, even that in itself could be a grand performance. I mean, I look like Kanye is an incredible perform, like, you know, like it is very war haul-ish in that like it's spectacle to use a certain peel word.
Um, but uh, you know, that's its own art form. It can be its own art form, but but like I put all of my energy into like I'm a comedian and I make specials and I make television programming or whatever programs I make uh movies occasionally Uh, and and whenever I'm doing that I would only like for all of my energy and all of my thoughts to go to that
Yeah. And then present that. I'm kind of repeating myself earlier. No, no, no, no, but we've gone deeper into it. Yeah, we've gone deeper into it. And what's your creative process like? So you're saying you put all of your energy, but when you're building a special or one of those TV shows, how do you even start? Where's the process? What's the starting point? How do you get inspired at the beginning of it?
Um, I mean, it's a spark of something, you know, something a lot of times, it's like anger. I think I started this one just like a little angry, then just started performing, doing clubs and then solo shows and then, uh, you know, preparing to do a television and like.
I do stand up for specials. I think at my core that's like, I think my intention reads better in that medium. Working backward from what that is, then take the writing and form a show. It just happened. My last special, it happened really fast.
um just frustrations with secrets and and feeling too old to keep them and and to you know I like I didn't feel like an adult I didn't feel like I had control of my own life and so that
you know, created a lot of urgency to find a way to resolve that. And art is just that attempt, like make it special, and that's like my attempt. I'm sorry, I'm probably gonna lower the place here. I mean, that's a great answer to hear the, honestly, that's not- I'm speaking, I'm trying not to be like evasive about it. It really is just like, I've been writing for years, like, like, and I'm always writing.
Sometimes it becomes a show, sometimes it becomes something that like it's mostly like most of creating is just a bunch of like.
trying and failing that no one sees, you know, and like, you know, failing in my own writing, failing in my own head over and over and over and over again and like trying to make something right or so, you know, structure or so. Yeah. Yeah. But I love what you said, that anger or frustration with your own identity and your secrets. I mean, that whole concept
is so real, I think, for so many of us, whatever that secret may be, whatever that identity may be, personally. I say to my friends, I really think everybody's in the closet about something. There's a thing, shame is such a powerful emotion, a strong, plenty of books about just how it can dictate the course of your life and your actions and your behavior. And so much is driven by shame and so much of
Who we are, just our attempts to hide that little piece of ourselves that can never be seen. At least it's been a common experience amongst people I've talked to and friends. I'm sure you get a high volume of it. And so, yeah, it was exciting and really scary to try and make something that
dealt with that head on. And that's how I've been feeling in my personal life, just even though it's kind of a blur between my work and my personal life now. But I've been trying to have conversations that I'd never had and trying to deal with shame and trying to restructure my relationship with God. Wow.
Am I the funniest comedian you've had on the show? I'm the funniest, right? That's a scary question. That's a scary question. I hope I'm killing right now. No, but the shame pods. I love that you went in that direction because I think that naturally shame is one of those topics that isn't talked about a lot publicly. So to even bring it up in a podcast is great because we can actually talk about it.
I find like we also live in a culture where shaming has become more normal, right? So we're talking about a time when we've realized how powerful shame is as an emotion and how much it limits us from truly being ourselves at the same time, shaming or cancel culture is growing at the same time. How do you mean?
I feel like today we point more fingers at others because we know more of what others are doing. We are more likely to tear someone down because we can, whereas in the past, you wouldn't have access to do that. You might do it in your dining table or you might do it on your couch at home. You didn't have the ability to go on social media and leave hate comments or whatever they've been. So it's interesting that you're saying that at the same time as you're saying that,
Hey, we need, you know, shame is holding people back from being themselves. We're also shaming others more, I guess, or we have more opportunity to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have an opportunity to speak a lot.
That's a funny statement in to know his own, yeah. It's so much of that, so much of that. And to speak constantly and emotionally, it's hard to have intention in every tweet, in every post, in every... Should we is the question? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's even more powerful than the word spoken in a private setting because it's something that
is even if you have one follower, you know, it has the potential of being seen and expressed amongst others. So like, you know, your intention reads and yeah, and I question that a lot. I mean, I mean, we could go down and on for hours and hours about like its effect on us and like, you know, even just thinking about
Even myself, when I'm on Instagram on my little private IG, I have a decent group of friends that I follow, and it's so abnormal to catch up or have the illusion of catching up with.
all of them constantly on loop. There are people sometimes that I see that I feel like I've seen, but I haven't actually had that experience with them. I've only had this experience with the representative that's on close friends or whatever. It's just not...
Expressing that much like I have this theory that we all are kind of becoming our own news channel like we're all the news and we have to for all CNN or Fox or whatever and we all have to fill the time like we have to fill the space like you like and the more you do it the more inclined you are to do it and
Again, it's just hard to keep that merit to intention, you know, like the sheer volume. If you just speak, if I wake up in the morning, I just speak all day and I never pause. It would be difficult to promise that everything I say would have as much intention. Yeah. Just the sheer volume. Yeah. I like that theory. I like that theory a lot. That's cool because I went to someone's house once and it's without a doubt, the coolest house ever been to.
This is a very cool house. So you're saying that from a very cool house? No, this is like, this is like, and I'm saying it's a cool house, not because of the building, not because of the grandeur, not, and same with this. I don't think that's why I think I like my own house was because of what he had in it. So he had a whole wall.
and he called it the fake news wall because it was every piece of news that was published before they knew the time. So back in the day, if a newspaper was being printed, if a game wasn't over, they'd have to print the news with who was winning at the time in hope that, right? So all of this, whether it was people winning games, whether it was votes, whatever it was, it was like articles that have been printed before the fact.
Wow. So he had all of it in America, like all these big, and I was thinking, this is fascinating. And what you're saying right now is that without intention, a lot of what we create is fake news in our own little news channels. Yeah. Well, because things change, you know, you're my opinion on an album.
Branson's, even just something as trivial as my feelings toward a song or whatever. It changes. It changes over the course of a week. It changes through how I've listened to it. I imagine if I were just talking publicly about
Kendrick's last album, which I went from not understanding to not liking to only liking the interludes to then listening to it while I was getting to Mandy Petty. And I turned the volume halfway down so I could like actually like hear the words. I had to focus on the work, something about like the lower volume, maybe pay attention more and like hearing what he was saying and then being in love with the album. And those tweets would have been rollercoaster.
Just of emotion, if I put that out constantly, because your thoughts towards something should change and evolve, then sometimes it may take a little while to reach stable ground. And some people would argue that the journey is authenticity. Yes. But what is authenticity to you as a comedian, as someone who's the theories that you just said, how do you define what is authentic and real and what isn't for you?
Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, fall in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Spegg, the host of The Psychology of Your 20s.
Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences. Incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life.
Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about. From the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Spegg. Now streaming on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to the Overcomfort Podcast with Jenna Kolopes. Yep, that's me. You may know my late mom, Jenny Rivera, my queen. She's been my guiding light as I bring you a new season of Overcomfort Podcast. This season, I'll continue to discover and encourage you and me to get out of our comfort zones and choose our calling. Join me as I dive into conversations that will inspire you, challenge you, and bring you healing. We're on this journey together.
I'm opening up about my life and telling my story in my own words. Yes, you'll hear it from me first before the Cheeseman lands on your social media food. If you thought you knew everything, guess again.
So I took another test with Ancestry, and it told me a lot about who I am. And it led me to my biological father. And everyone here, my friends laugh, but I'm Puerto Rican. Listen to the over-comfort podcast with Jenna Calópez as part of my Kudurán podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
Get emotional with me, Radi Devluke, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there.
People that I admire when we say listen to your body really tune in to what's going on. All those are books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life. I already believe in myself. I already see myself. And so when people give me an opportunity, I'm just like, oh, great, you see me too. We'll laugh together, we'll cry together, and find a way through all of our emotions. Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one.
Listen to a really good cry with Radi Devlucia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I try and a lot of things are true, right? Like you can go, I was presenting a lot of true things, right? Like things that I thought were hard facts or perspective that people wouldn't want to say out loud or be able to tolerate. And, you know, I did believe it and it was true, but it wasn't like in my eyes, the most compelling version of the truth.
I've found like now like when working, I run toward things I'm afraid of and that have personal consequence.
in my life, so talking about me, because I never really talked about myself before, never considered myself a storyteller. And this is something I'm in many ways making art while learning in real time. But it is and has become with my live show, just like this kind of personal exploration, not just that things that bring me shame, things that, and again, it's hard to talk about the show.
Only because I'm sure I'm making it so I must give the caveat that it's actually funnier than I've been, but I try and keep it.
compelling, you know, like I try and keep stakes in the act and like tension there. Like that's my new focus is, you know, both says I like give the audience a lot, like more giving and I have more need for them now more than ever. And I like that experience. So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really personal now. Like it's the things that are dangerous to me, like the evil, can evil things are like my feelings toward
you know, myself or my feelings toward, you know, relationships that I have. What was, what was the first thing you think you ever combated through that our exploration internally as a fear? Like, I love that idea that your storytelling now or your specials, they're a exploration of something you're scared of. What was the first ever thing? Do you remember that you were scared of that? No, that's, I kind of baby stepped into my last project. Right. So.
I was like, I made these documentaries for HBO where I went home and I was confronting like my father's adultery and my mother's forgiveness of him. And I tried to come out to my mom, but I did it in a very, it was fearful. So like, I was like, I hooked up with dudes before, like just like kind of waiting for a reaction.
you know, and it wasn't a full truth. And then, you know, sometime later, I like came out to my family and it had
still resonating consequences to that. It affected our relationship in a real way. There's a lot of anxiety and not speaking of kind of separating myself from my family a lot recently. I only share because I'm still in that part of the process. I want to be honest about it. I don't, you know, like what a, like, and I,
pray that it gets better and we should talk later about what prayer means to me. But it's great, again, like kind of personal consequence. And so my last special Roth annual was me really kind of drawn a line in the sand with my family coming out publicly, contending with my father's adultery, its effect on me.
kind of generational trauma caused by adultery, caused by having other kids outside the marriage that were kept secrets and how just years of secrets that kind of repressed us and repressed me into a liar, you know, unable, a liar and unable to tell my own truth.
And so I look at the special as being the synopsis could read like on HBO, like man afraid of heights jumps out of an airplane for the first time. Like that was my last special. Like that was the intention was doing the scariest thing I could imagine. I never thought I would ever come out. I was afraid of the public's reaction. I was mostly afraid of my mother's. That was the feet walking on to the stage and doing it.
Yeah, I mean, that even just hearing you say that, I mean, that is so inspiring as a creative person, like to hear that your creative impetus or intentional process is to confront a fear, a shame, something that difficult. And of course, you're doing it through comedy, which is even harder in one sense, because you're making these extremely deep, traumatic events.
You know, light hearted to some degree where people are able to be entertained. But the thing is what I found with audiences is that when I go, when I share things that are personal to me, no matter what the danger and upset things that are, I mean, this is happening in real time and like,
It's like tweets. Art is capturing a moment in time. That's why I try and focus all the energy on one thing. Like my special is just one IG live. You know what I mean? It's like the one thing that I focused on. I found that when it's personal.
It's not the same audiences like you can't like I'm talking about how I feel. I'm talking about me. I'm talking about things I went through and how that developed this perspective, right? That's all truthful is different than if I'm just like talking about what you you can do. I'm all for
Rather, you like it or not kind of comedy free speech. You have every right to do that, like in comedians do that. And I did that. I mean, most of my career, but still up until recently was a lot of that trying to say the thing. I like to think of mine was more intellectual, but that's my own egotistical argument for it. But you know, but now I'm talking about me. And when I'm talking about me, like audiences react with empathy or compassion, even when I say sometimes I say like some wild things.
you know, but it's mine is personal. Like that's different. You have ownership over how you feel, you know, and that's what I want my art to be, just like how I feel right now, just like an emotion, like a pure intention bottled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot. Yeah, I get that. You've said, it's interesting though, your language is like full of like intention, truth, like,
Yeah, and I almost hate that. I almost hate it because it's like these are powerful words that obviously get overused and I'm sure I'm overusing it. I don't think you are. But it's like the word platform, like I hate the word platform. But I don't think you're overusing them. I feel like...
I don't think you're overusing them from, from at least what I'm, I'm generating from this conversation. Like, I guess, I guess what I'm fascinated by is like, what you said, you said you were, I think you used the word and I could have got the word from where you said you were reconstructing a relationship with God or reframing that. And then you said, let me define what prayer is to me. Let's do both those things. What did you say that I pray? It's in many ways one and the same because I think my entire life of
kind of believed this, but didn't have the language to articulate how I felt. And that is truly taking the Christianity that I was taught growing up my whole life into church every Sunday. Even when my mama worked, I went with my grandma, sang on the choir.
Sunday school class into regular service state after talking to parking lot full church boy and learning about God the man in the sky who at you know your requests can show you benevolence and act as consequence for your sins punish you right and I was um I was taught about this man
and internalize this man, and he dictated my actions and my words and my fear. And then I read this book by Eric Butterworth called Discover the Power Within You. And it helped me articulate how I felt, which is if you take Christ's words as philosophy, right, like just like take away this
human need to worship the light and just listen and accepting your own divinity. And by divinity, I don't want to be confused because I think it blues sometimes non-religious people. I mean, you know, potential to function fully.
That's all something that Christ has said that you have. You have at birth, it is your right, and you are essentially God manifesting Himself as Jay, as Gerard.
I accept that. I accept my own potential. I realize that prayers are just affirmations that you are asking for what you already have. I think it's why, like, good advice feels familiar. Someone says something and you're like, yes. Oh, yes. I knew that. Yeah. You know, that's why you connect with it. That is so true. And it's it is there, you know, and it's divinity that that we all have access to. But it's always like the
you know, practice that's rough, right? Because it's easier. It was easier for me. I want to speak personally. It was easier for me to just accept a God that I can send and then ask for forgiveness and, you know, a Bible that I didn't fully understand and just kind of accept that there's this external force fixating. And
You know, the devil relinquished me of responsibility for my own actions. I was able to kind of back away from things. That wasn't me, that was the devil. And now, by internalizing that philosophy and seeing it as philosophy,
I had to remove the magic from the Bible, right? And this is what works for me. And I'm saying it cautiously because I know like I can still see the ears of my mother perking up. So I'm like, I'm saying that this is what has helped me.
Just like realizing that God is me functioning as I can, and things function as they can, access to good. We all have access to good even through tragedy, even through pain. Those words of the Bible become different. They hit a little different when you accept yourself as innately divine.
All things work for good, for through God who strengthens me, you know, like Philippians is something that you know, you know, oh, I can use all of this for good. I can take what, you know, I can take the rubble or things from the ashes and make something new out of this and continue forward like with a sense of purpose, with a sense of duty. I can form that, you know, take in tragedy and we see it all the time, like, you know,
parents of children who've gone through tragedies or, you know, people just with loved ones who've experienced something and then they take what's been destroyed and they make something new, you know, and that is the Bible that's using your own innate power to move forward. And that's the line between me and my mother that's been the line between me and the church my entire life.
I've always wanted to believe that and it wasn't until I came out or even accept it. Let's just say accept it who I was that I was forced to then say, okay, well, God, as tall to me is not accepting of me.
And I had to re-examine in order to not destroy myself. I love hearing your thought process because it's so real, like you're so in it. And as someone who's created a
piece of art based on a fear. You've had to live through that fear again and again and again in the creation process. How did it feel? Did you feel that making a piece of art on that relinquished a fear and now you could move on to another shame or another guilt or another fear or what was the, what was it like?
Yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. And speaking of that fear, I did a few shows on the role in preparation for the special, and I was coming out to audience members that knew me every night. It was like a new jumping off a cliff.
That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. And it was a lot, but it is how I knew it's the direction I needed to go in because it did scare me. And I've learned to trust that feeling, isn't always that...
I'm going in the wrong direction, but in fact that I'm going, there's like a lot of fertile ground. Yeah. Yeah, it's the fear. It just stays. It just stays the whole time, the whole time until it's released and then you kind of release the fear. Did you feel you released the fear when that happened? Yeah, in many ways. Well, in many ways, because I feel
more truthful publicly now, which feels great. Yeah. That feels really, really good. Yeah. And so I don't have the fear of being found out in that way, but they're still, I'm definitely still fighting through shame and how it's manifested itself in my life through things that
really that I could call hypochondria or OCD or whatever, but really like anxieties rooted in shame that I'm working through and that I'm trying to understand better myself. And I feel like my job to explore that, you know, so.
I kind of chase that feeling. I don't recommend it. I was just about to say, I was like, how do you recommend people do this? Because I think that whether you're a performer or not, we all have to go through this process. Yeah, yeah. I do recommend like for whatever it's worth me saying, like that you run toward all of the
things that you're afraid of in a truthful way, contend with it with an open mind. I think that's very, very important. How did you do it in a way that didn't break you or hurt you? Because I think that's where people are scared of shame and guilt because it feels like a broken piece of glass. Yeah. And so when you pick up a broken piece of glass, you could get cut. Yeah. So people like, why is this better to just shove it away? Yeah.
I don't know. And I'm still like, I feel like I'm still picking it up. But good friends, very, very important in my case. And people that remind me where the ground is, they just get caught up in all of it. All of it, anxiety is real. I'm recently admitting that I experience anxiety. I ran away from admitting that much of my life.
Yeah, I can relate to that. I remember a few years ago, my mum would always tell me, I think you're stressed.
and I'd be like, I'm not stressed, I'm fine. And I didn't even want to admit it to myself. So it's not that I was lying to her, I was lying to myself. I didn't even want to, because I was scared that if I let that in, then that would change me somehow. That it would block me, stop me. And I didn't realize that. And that you're weak. Totally, yeah. It's the thought that you're weak out there, you're all being consumed by these, all this small little thing is eating you up and it's just like,
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And it is. Yeah. And I had a friend that I remember was going for depression very early on and like this when we were much younger and I was like, how can you be depressed? You've got nothing to be depressed. You know, that kind of mindset. And then you go for something yourself and you go,
God, I experienced depression. And I was scared of accepting it. And it took me, it was the same for me. It was the weak aspect. It was the aspect of, no, no, no. Some people have it much worse. Like, what am I complaining about? It was the shame that came with, oh no, but I'm, you know, I, if mom thinks I'm stressed, then she'll get stressed. It's like the guilt, all of that. And any excuse not to confront it, right? Confront it. And I feel like you just keep putting it off. And now I've realized that,
I need to talk to that feeling or emotion when it arises because me putting it away just makes it get bigger and darker and deeper. And that's what I find so interesting doing it through art because
When you're putting it out in front of other people, again, now it's their mind, their impression gets involved too, like what they're going to think of it. What is it right now? If you said that there's a fear right now or a shame or guilt right now that you're trying to unpack next, like is there something that not that you're working on specifically for a new project, but even just in your own life?
Yeah, probably emotional blocks that stopped me from being in a healthy relationship with someone. And as someone who came out publicly later, I realized that there are phases and things that I go through and that it's normal to go through.
Understanding those blocks has been interesting to me as of late. And dealing with the things that don't sound cool. Give me an example. Well, only because not that I'm not even that I don't want to, but I'm only respecting that on stage is a different place that allows me to say things.
Like I may say something that I'm like, well, now we need another hour. Can I explain everything that led to that? I don't know. I love that. Just things that are personally scary to me, there are no bodies or anything. But there are things that have emotional consequences that I've run from.
I like how simple you went back to just like good friends, like, you know, friends are just, it sounds like such a basic thing. And we had some friends over that hadn't seen for years this weekend. And we were all just appreciating that as well in terms of I remember I've been coaching people for a long time.
And that was really what my work was before I did any of what I do today. And all I ever met was people who were lonely at the top, like that was consistent with my experience. And so I would often say to myself that while I'm building my life, I don't want to make sure that I build relationships at the same time as build things. And I don't just mean like love and romantic. I mean like friendships, as you're saying,
And I've realized just how much time that takes, how much energy that takes, how much effort that takes, but how fulfilling it is. And it sounds so simple and it's so basic. Oh, it's difficult. And it's almost, and it's almost a lot of the things that drive you to be successful are isolating. Yeah. Like there is a lot of accepted selfishness even amongst fragrant, like at times have been a horrible friend.
like a very selfish friend. Like, I mean, just like, get on the phone, talk about me for an hour. All right, bye. You know, just like a one-sided friend, a friend who's used money to supplement connection, a friend who's like kept friends at arms distance so I could work or focus or however I justified it. And I still do that. I still do that. Like that like, like, like in, in, and I, and I, and I value,
my work. And so specifically in art, it's licensed to sometimes indulge in behavior or emotions that are harmful to relationships. And I can't tell if that's
Look, it's not okay because it's like, but it's like an occupation hazard. Occupational hazard, yeah. Yeah, it's an occupational hazard. It's like, you're, I don't know, I have to go there. Like, I have to go into this cave. I'm Eva Longoria. I'm Maita Gomez-Rejorn. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry for History. On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages, from our Mexican culture.
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But I think the part I find fascinating about it is the awareness of it, right? I think the lack of awareness, a lot of people may be doing that, but they don't even know why. And I can relate to a lot of that. I've definitely been very clear with friends, family, things like that about what I can and can't do based on what I'm working on. But it's different when it's carved out, when it's communicated.
Yeah. And when it's, right? Like it helps. It definitely helps. It definitely helps. And that's a part of honesty and not lying to yourself about what you're doing. Yeah, being able to say, okay, I used to be so late to work, you know, just because like I'm just in my head and like, I know how long it takes me to like,
shift gears and like I would lie to him about. I didn't realize I was lying, but I would be like, we're starting at three, you know, and then like five 30 and like, okay, I'm ready. You know, and he's, and I'm wasting his time on being horrible. It's not even productive for me because like now I'm trying to like work closely with someone who's like,
like justifiably frustrated with me. Totally. You know, and so like just like learning to communicate even like, oh look, this is how I'm feeling right now, this is how I'm feeling today. Yeah. So I'm working on like.
I don't even know if we're going to get to it. And he's like, look, then I'll make it as a loose plan. Exactly. And I'll either see you at three or in two weeks. Yeah. And that's what we're so scared of communicating. And that's what I feel the same way I talk about in relationships. So with my wife for a long time, I'd always be like,
Three nights this week, I just need to spend time alone. You can say that, or you can say, hey, these three nights, I'm working on this thing, which means I need some time and space. That's totally different to, hey, these three nights, I'm just gonna be home late. And it takes a little bit more time and energy and effort, and this isn't about advice, it's just about the idea of what you're saying that you're actually creating more issues for yourself by not communicating. And the courage
that it takes, it just pays off. Like you just said, your friend's like, oh, I'm clear now. But saying the thing, saying the thing that is potentially awkward. And it's not even that, a lot of times the biggest conversations in my life, the scariest ones, it won't even lead to devastation. It just could potentially lead to a moment of discomfort.
discomfort of cringe or whatever. And it's worth it. It's worth it. My friends that I'm closest with have call essentially have called me out on a lie, which is a difficult thing to do. And we survived it and we're closer because of it. Yeah.
That's impressive. That's impressive. I mean, most people can't take that, but that's when it comes back to awareness. Like even earlier, you mentioned ego. And it was like even the ability to see your own ego is a healthy sense of awareness. I mean, we're in this attention economy right now where, like we talked about this, we started with this, the idea that everyone's trying to grapple for people's attention. People will even invent things in their life.
to get attention because it's so hard to get attention. When you're trying to not even get attention. People are raising their children on the internet. Like people are like camera, like the children are like sleeping. But with that, like the attention part, like how is it that
then in a world where then you're saying that you're still, you still have to compete for attention, but you're trying to do it for fear and exploration and art. Well, because to me that's like interesting to me is interesting because it's scary and it's like a lot of emotion for me. And like not only respecting people's time, but realizing, you know, just how hard it is to get anyone's attention for a moment.
to make people feel anything, you know, because that's also if you're inundated with bad news, even like you, you know, people either seek good news through their art or be like, you know, only a really authentic version of something can even resonate or have the potential to resonate with a viewer or listener.
And so I respect it and I know it's hard. So that's why I save it when it's ready. Even if it's a daily show, if I were doing a daily show, I would just save it all for that night.
But that's just how, again, I say that with a disclaimer, with a non-judgmental disclaimer of, you know, of someone who follows accounts on Instagram that I find funny or in some ways inspirational or whatever, but it's always like a, there's always like the truth that like really gets me. That's why I love sports.
Yeah. Sports is true. I watch, I don't even watch sports, but I watch ESPN all day, every day. Sports center around the horn, like PTI, like just like, like facts, facts, facts, truth, truth, truth. Opinions, plenty of opinions. It's funny. It's just an honest. What's your favorite sport?
Whatever. Oh, right. Oh, it doesn't matter. I also like straight things for gay reasons. So like I'm like really obsessed with the lighting of basketball.
Like, yeah, this stadium is like, you know, this arena is gorgeous. You know, like, you know, the golden light of the garden or whatever. Like, I'm a, but I'm obsessed with the production of it. I'm obsessed with like, you know, the performance. I've never heard that sports is true. It's a TV show. Like my, you know, friends who really, truly love sports. Hey, when I'm like that. But I'm like, yeah, the NBA is just like a long running television program.
Michael Jordan was one of my favorite stars of that program. He got me to watch it on TV. It's a tour. It's a televised tour. Yeah, that's an interesting way to see it. I'm obsessed with soccer football. But the rules of performance, when I go to games, it's a full show. They're also trying to keep the audience attention the whole time. In America, it's a show. In England, it's not a show. In England, it's not like that.
Oh, no, we're trying to- So do you have sports in England? There is no entertainment but the sport. Oh, that's nice. The sport is there. Well, even advertising in England seems so like when you're going down like in London, if you're walking down the Strand, part of what makes it gorgeous is that it's just like these really like these giant brick buildings that reflect light well and have no- it's not a lot of
Ads, yeah. It's different. It's different. It's just like clean. Yeah. And sports is like that. You see sponsors on shirts, obviously, and sponsors around the pitch, but it's different. I realized that when I came to the US, I was like, oh, wow, everything's entertainment. Not just the sport. Yeah, yeah. You guys do do the giant soccer. I mean, some of the jerseys are cool. I don't like it on the NBA jerseys. It's not worth it. Yeah, they're realistic. They're like, yeah, you mean, quick and loans right here.
Like give a kid a clean like Jersey. I love God. Oh, but uh Yeah, yeah, it's like I mean America's done it in a way. That's just so it's so part of the culture It's like even like movies, you know, I fought really hard and my movie to even keep just like Coke bottles or something because that is America like to me that looks American looking at a photo photograph of New York or LA like I could in many places recognize it but the advertisements and the pure ubiquity of it
Totally. What's your take on? I guess as looking, I love how you have theories and insights on all different industries, looking at the advertising industry or looking at product placement, looking at that. Like, is there, do you have any interesting theories about how ads have changed? Because obviously now we're going from targeted ads, ads everywhere. I mean, you're off social media, but like, I'm just fascinated to hear your thoughts on advertising and attention, like, and why we fall for every time because
Yeah, I'm susceptible to... Me too. I love it. I love good advertising. I have an iPhone. iPhones aren't even the best phones, but I bought one. Like, I see pixels and stuff. I'm like, that is amazing. But you won't buy one. Well, I mean... No. What are we gonna like? Text my friends from like a green bubble?
Um, but like it's because of the act like it really so like apples sold me on a dream and I'm a sucker who bought it same and like and it's sleek and it's cool I mean there obviously great qualities to whatever but like like I'm very susceptible to things I'm just I'm susceptible to words and images just like you know And so that's part of reason it's hard for me to see things because I know like
It's a lot for me. I just, well, I have to like do the YouTube no ads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, now it's an interesting thing. Like, you know, it's a lot of brands that are like afraid of its customer. Like I'm really like a lot of corporations that are very timidly putting friendly diverse commercials for the, you know, and they always wanted to appease everyone. But like now I think there's a lot of timidity to it.
Some of them are still creative, you know, obviously Geico changed the world. Yeah, definitely. Like there should be some type of award for like, just like, yeah, like that Gecko should win like, Thing of the Year. Like, it was like, yeah, time Gecko of the Year, because it's like, like, I mean, it did, like, it made everything not about the product.
I just like removed from it. Well, I think that's my opinion. I probably have an interesting view on this. I love good advertising because I respect it. Yeah, because I'm like, if it's true, obviously if it's true, that's a big part of it. But I love it when someone has thought about the aesthetics and someone has thought about the presentation. Because I can respect that that required a lot of
brain power, right? It required that in a, it required some, in a potential, it didn't, they didn't just go, oh yeah, I just turned up. I, I mean, roads, like good advertising, like, oh, when I, it's, I also respect the,
Edward Bernay's, you know, manipulation of it all. Like, just like, man, you really got me. You really get just... But yeah, but there is something, there is fascinating to see who had the ability to shift human behavior. That is fascinating to observe. And I think if we observed that more, I think we wouldn't get as sucked in by it.
Yeah. Right? Like because what we're saying is we like good advertising, but we know when it's advertising. Yeah. And so I'm not saying I can, I'm not susceptible to it, but I'm saying that being able to see what's working on me is helpful. Yeah, it's just that exactly that, that what you're being presented.
Okay. This is probably a lot. So two parts. One, I'm perpetually trying to change my mother and test her capacity for change and her ability to question the source. Hey, is religion, as you've learned it,
something that may have been manipulated over time and like are all of these things like the divine word of a divine being or are they influenced by kings and politicians alike over the course of the 2000 years since, right? So there's always that and so like I'm
probably to a degree that is unhealthy, cynical, and skeptical, and definitely believe conspiracy a lot. But I also think that the belief of conspiracy is dangerous, right? So it's like trying to find middle ground, right? It's just like because the belief of conspiracy is like,
why we know anti-vaxxers, right? Like it's just like everyone's like, but Tuskegee experiment, but I'm like, one that doesn't really make sense because to me if the government's intention was to control a population, then wouldn't they put the thing in the vaccine that actually saves you and kill everybody else? But that's a conspiracy. That's a wild thing to
say too, but it's just a rabbit hole of never ending things. And I get that it's difficult to know truth and news source now, but it's trying to find middle ground between having a respectable, I don't know your own internal checks and balances for where you get your information and where you get the information that dictates your life.
And it's hard. It's just playing hard for people, I think, today. It's exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's like, where do I go? And I want to be honest and say, there isn't a place to say, hey, go to this website that gives you the best news because there isn't. And so you're always going to have that. And I wonder how you feel. You'll definitely be less happy.
That's a thing, with information, you'll be less happy. But I think we're all less happy anyway, because we're receiving so much information anyway. So you might as well receive information that forces you to self-examine. Correct. But self-explores, so it's like we're inundated with it anyway. Yeah, if you can make time for it, absolutely. Make that head which everyone obviously is. But we make time.
You know what I mean? We do make time. The busiest person, all my friends, and I know that I have the luxury of not having a day job. It's half a luxury because I do need to be busy to not drive myself crazy. But those I know that are working 12-hour, 14-hour shifts, still find time to be inundated with information. You know what I mean? A lot of it's numbing.
And again, it is exhausting, but it does lead to, I think, a healthier life, you know, like self-awareness and being able to question. It's my mother's fearful of the ground that she's been walking on, being moved. And I get that, but, you know, not, I just wish it wasn't at the sacrifice of self-exploration.
Well, I think that you just heard something really powerful. Like for a long time, I believe that what people most needed was care and love. And I started to realize that for most people, they weren't searching for that. They're searching for safety, safety and ideologies, safety and a relationship, safety and security and stability is what people are looking for. And so the challenge with
confidently exploring an emotion or an ideology feels unsafe because it makes you question what you're standing on. Everything. But that requires you to recognize that it's more unsafe to not examine.
Yes. What you think. Yes, yeah. That's a giant leap. That's a giant leap, yeah. That's a very, very giant leap. And it's like, it's easier to live under the law of platitudes. Correct. And not explore. How do you find as a...
as obviously like as a comedian, then as an actor, right? And like you're directing, you're creating like, how does that help you explore the truth differently? Or what is that doing that's different for you personally? Because obviously now we just we've literally just been extrapolating how you do this as a comedian and how you do this in your work. But then acting and directing and creating is totally different, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well,
I mean, you've been playing your parts of yourself. I've been doing that and I'm trying to do less of that. I don't want to be a multi-hyphen. I'm not necessarily chasing that. I do think that I have a skill in multiple things, but I would like to create focused work. And so even like.
acting and directing my last movie is something that I would never do again and I'm very thankful I believe we pulled it off and made something that can like resonate with people that I would rather focus on one thing I think that's important you know even like
The idea of like E-God is cool, I would rather be the best at one of those things, you know what I mean? Like, but they do all have one thing in common and that's like finding truth and as an actor, I do believe the more I've explored my emotion and walls. I started doing psychoanalysis a couple years ago and it's been very helpful letting me
find the thought underneath the thought and actively get in touch with intention, right? And acting is believing and it's easier to get in touch with intention when I've explored them, you know, and I have more access to different intention now. And so I am excited to act more
Now I feel like my whole career is you know just been me learning and building up until Even it will continue to be that but recently I feel like I've had more access to the truth and and
made like a conscious decision to do that going forward or at least to try. So I think that would make whatever I'm doing better. But yeah, that's like the common thread. Yeah, I felt that because even the idea in the movie of like two men making a suicide pact, you know, like that concept.
only works if you play it truthfully. People were afraid of that movie. On the count of three was very hard to get finance. Nobody wanted to do it, you know, very luckily, bound to. What was the reason people don't like making movies? Well, well, one, because what comedy it's with the assumption that it isn't truthful and that it will be made fun of and just dismissed and made light of, right? And I
like my show and I've always believed that you can find a lot of humor while taking things seriously. And to me, that's the best humor, my favorite movies, even the movies I think are the funniest.
You know, like, you know, watching a co-in-brother's movie or a sappy brother's movie or even directors who don't have a brother. They're funny because it's so real. It's hyper real. That's my taste and my sense of humor. To me, count of three is like, because of the stakes of it being your last day on Earth, it's actually aspirational in a way, you know, that allows itself to be very, very
Very, very funny because it's like, you know, it's sincere. They really think this is the end. These two characters having a vow really believe that. And we take seriously the reasons they're there and it just makes a.
a product that keeps my attention. I think people have respected it and respect the film more because it takes depression seriously. It takes treatment of it seriously and it takes seeing suicide as a resolution seriously and we weren't afraid to treat the audience. If you've experienced this, if you've had these thoughts,
One, I do believe that it can be triggering, so it is important to know yourself.
when going into it. But I do think people who have and I've now been able to talk to people and read things that people have written about going through depression, having suicidal ideations and even attempts and connecting with the film in a way that they didn't expect because it was truthful. You know, and that was important and laughing at it because it was truthful. Yeah. And so
You know, that's always the gamble I'm willing to take that like, like being truthful, treating my audience as adults will pay off. Yeah, yeah, it was hard. It was really hard. No one, like it cost me a lot of my own money. I like went broke making the movie. You know what I mean? Like it was, it was really, really hard, but really worth it. Really worth it. Even just as an artistic statement of, of fearlessness to explore, it was worth it.
I mean, I'd seen your work and I think when you sit down with someone and this is why I do the podcast, it's like to really hear about why they do it and then you get a deeper appreciation of what someone does when you know why they do it and how they think about it and how far they go off the edge to do it.
I just find you really inspiring in a different way than I'd usually imagine with comedy because it's not just entertainment. It's not just galvanizing a crowd. It's not holding attention. It's like the ability to encourage us all to move in the direction of our fears. Yeah. Yeah. And you're doing that, whether you're saying that or not, that's what I feel encouraged to do through your work.
Oh, I really appreciate you saying that. My friend, Bo, always says that it's more the access to fearlessness, right? And I'm trying to make things that...
report on these moments where I gain access to. It's almost like journalism. It's really powerful. It's super powerful. I mean, I feel moved by it personally because it helps me think about how if that's your intention behind the work you're doing,
That's the same as any other, and if someone has the intention of improving people's lives, that's exactly what that's doing simply by that shift because, yeah, whatever we're scared of is holding us back in so many ways. And that's a basic thing we all know, but...
It's very rarely explored in content as the sole intention. People think, how do we make this make money, or how do we make this make people laugh, or how do we make it? And those are all beginnings and ends. They're not the deep of intention. It's the thing that most has my attention. It's like,
All right. There's a monster under the bed. Okay. Well, I could sit here. I could eat popcorn. I could watch TV. I could think about anything else. Everything in my life is about this monster. Like until I look and I want to make art about looking.
I love that. Jared, it's been so awesome talking to you. This is great. Thank you for taking the time. I'm genuinely like, this has been one of the most fun conversations I've had in a long time and it's because the reason why I do this for myself is I love sitting down with people where I don't know where things are going. I don't know where the conversation is going to go. Yeah, it's fun. And that's what I enjoy so much because
I was like, I just want to get to know this fascinating human. I like talking to you. Yeah. No, it feels free associative and therapeutic. Correct. Yes, same for me. I really appreciate you. And you have beautiful eyes.
That's what it does. It's almost too powerful. I had to look away a couple of times. I love it. I love the sound of your voice. I can listen to your voice. So we got equal appreciation. I was like, wow, his voice is just so nice. We're going to collab on an ASMR channel. I'm in. Except my eyes don't help their minds. People gaze and I'll read.
I mean, you let me know. But Gerard, we end every episode with the final five. This is a fast five, so the questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So one word to one sentence. All right, the first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received? Don't take advice. Yeah, great. Yeah. What is the worst advice you've ever received? Listen to him.
I love it. Question number three, I think we already answered this through the podcast, but I always liked that. How would you describe your current purpose with what you're doing? Fine truth. I love that. Question number four is what is something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? Privacy. Why did I'm going to go off piece first? That's a really interesting answer. You didn't use to value privacy before. What made you start to value it?
Um, I realized that a lot of the things that I wanted to be private were because I was ashamed of them. So I realized that a lot of like people will share anything and quickly I'll tell them. Yeah, please. I want to know. Sorry about like my father that kind of represents this thought. Like my father called me and asked me one day like if I was doing stand up again and he was like, so you're going to make another special and I was like, yeah, why? He was like, he was like, you're going to talk about me in it.
I was like, why? Why? Why? And he said, because you mean and it hurts my feelings. And I was like, why? Like, how am I mean? And he was like, you know, you put our business out there. Like, you talk about family business. I talk about like his, you know, the kids that he's had that were a secret for many years and my sexuality. And like, and I'm like, when you had all these kids, like,
You made it public, like you had children, like you made it public. You call it that, you call it putting our business out there because you're ashamed of it. My father, this is a man who will talk to any stranger who will listen in an eye hop lobby about like his open heart surgery.
And like any private personal, like talk about his medical history, would anybody will tell everyone his son has a television show and his home address. And like, but this is private. It's like, no, this is shameful. Like this is something you haven't contended with. Like just thinking about what privacy means, right? What I find fascinating about that is how does your, I'm going totally, this is not our fast five now. We get to the fifth one last, but
How do you find that as someone who's had to go through their shame, go through that, uncover it? How do you extend that same process to your father and mother and other people you meet? Because now you know how hard it is to do that. And when you see their resistance and reluctance to do it, how does that change? How you feel about them with their shame?
it's hard to be around. It's hard to be around. And I realize that in some ways extreme and in some ways it's a luxury to be able to like not talk to certain people in my life because they're kids who feel that way around their parents and
I wouldn't suggest that they run away from home. You know what I mean? So there are people who have jobs and reasons that they can't be fully truthful and I do respect that. But it's hard for me
So again, the monster in the bed, if there's one thing that it's hard to talk about, then it's hard for me to talk about anything. And so right now as my family, my mother and my father come to terms with me being gay, it's difficult to talk to them because we can talk about everything else. You know, they watch my special and like, to me, like the most
like a part that aches is a part of like me talking about coming out and my struggles to be with them. And that was the part on the first phone call and even still like they didn't even acknowledge. They went like, I know you went through a lot carrying your father secrets and that type of thing, but they didn't talk about that because they don't want to. And we can and I could have a very pleasant relationship with them.
And that would just feel excruciating to me right now, right now. And maybe I don't know if I'll become numb or become calloused and I always pray that I don't become bitter. But it's hard, it's hard to extend, because you can't make everyone truthful or say the things that you want them to say. But I am trying to control the relationships I have based on my ability
To be truthful with you. And I love that you're giving yourself the permission to do that because I think that is the step process towards
Whatever evolution it goes on, it's like when we don't give ourselves permission to be in the uncomfortable of like, well, I can't talk about this or I can't talk about anything else. We're like, no, I don't want to be that because that makes me a bad person, right? We have shame around that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, permission is a good. It's a great word. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise you just live in the cycle. It's easy to use to repeat the path to stay in that jail. Yeah. And you feel a bitterness internally. Yes. Because you never feed yourself. Yes. Yes. Yes. You stayed. Yeah.
All right, fifth and final question of the whole interview is if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I do believe that due into others stands. I think that's probably the golden rule and whatever.
If that were somehow law, do unto others as you would have done unto you. From seeing the divinity in people to being truthful with people, like the things that you want, you know, I think you would give more at least, you know.
Gerard, comment to everyone. I hope this is the first. And many times we get to hang out. Yeah, we should start more. I feel like I feel like there's still like pockets that we got. Yeah. Yeah. This is the first to many. This is the first to many. Yeah, this is so really good. So many more pockets. And it's always nice getting to lay the land of someone's foundational thinking and then get to learn more. But thank you so much for doing this. Any last messages, anything you want to say? No, no, no. That's great. Everyone has been listening and watching back at home or whether you're in the car or whether you're at work, wherever you are.
Make sure you share what you learned, what you took away, any insights that resonated with you. I think for me, I'm being called to think about how I can be pulled to release any shame I have, how I can have more open conversations with my friends about any guilt that I'm holding on to, how I can use art to move towards my fears as opposed to away from them. I think a lot of us think of art as an escape from our fears when actually they can be an exploration, as Gerard said today.
I thank you, Arad, for joining us today. Thank you all. I hope you share this episode with someone who needs it. But thank you for listening, Arad. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self because
truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.
Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit. The podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page-turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture.
Listen to BlackLit on the Black Effect podcast network, iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
