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    The ultimate guide to PR | Emilie Gerber (founder of Six Eastern)

    Personalize and customize pitches, use clear and concise language, reference relevant context, read pitches out loud, and focus on the basics: what does it do, who is it for, and who are the customers?

    enMarch 21, 2024

    About this Episode

    Emilie Gerber is the founder and CEO of Six Eastern, a top PR agency that’s worked with over 100 tech companies, from stealth startups to publicly traded companies. Before starting her own firm, she worked at Uber, where she led PR for the business development team and B2B programs. Prior to that, she worked at Box on product communications, with a focus on product launches and partnership announcements. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why, and when, getting press is worth your time

    • Common misconceptions about the impact press can have

    • The second-order effects of press

    • Which areas each publication (TechCrunch, Axios, The Verge, etc.) cares most about

    • How to craft your pitch

    • How to find and reach reporters

    • How pitching press is different from pitching customers

    • The effectiveness of direct communication through social media versus traditional press

    Brought to you by:

    Sprig—Build a product people love

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-pr-emilie-gerber

    Where to find Emilie Gerber:

    • Substack: http://onbackgroundintel.substack.com

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilie-gerber-59612230/

    • Website: https://sixeastern.com/

    • Email: hello@sixeastern.com

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Emilie’s background

    (04:56) The value of press and second-order effects

    (13:00) When press is not worth your time

    (17:01) Different publications and their suitability

    (25:36) Avoiding negative stories

    (27:23) Finding aligned podcasts and awards

    (31:12) Advice for reaching out to reporters

    (37:23) Controversial pitches

    (41:16) Avoiding category creation

    (43:26) Examples of pitches that have worked well

    (53:32) Pitching to Lenny

    (55:46) Effective pitching strategies

    (57:45) Improving pitch announcements

    (01:03:01) Press releases

    (01:07:06) Crafting a compelling story

    (01:09:43) Traditional press vs. newsletters, podcasts, and social media

    (01:15:50) Building a social media presence

    (01:17:51) How to get a Morning Brew feature

    (01:19:32) Advice on choosing a PR agency

    (01:22:25) Timing and budget for PR

    (01:25:39) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/

    • Who is Lenny Rachitsky? And what does he know that you don’t about making millions writing online?: https://www.fastcompany.com/90940453/lenny-rachitsky-newsletter-podcast-job-board-substack

    • 42-year-old brings in an average of $41,000 a month from his podcast and works on it just 5 hours a week: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/11/lenny-rachitsky-podcast-brings-in-more-than-500k-a-year-heres-how.html

    • How This Newsletter Writer Got More Than 300,000 Subscribers, and Now Makes “Significantly More” Than He Did at His Day Job: https://www.entrepreneur.com/starting-a-business/how-this-newsletter-writer-got-more-than-300000/447172

    Business Insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/

    • Contraline: https://www.contraline.com/

    Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/

    • TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com/

    • Axios: https://www.axios.com/

    Fortune: https://fortune.com/

    • Term Sheet: https://fortune.com/tag/term-sheet/

    The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/

    Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/

    New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/

    • Found podcast: https://techcrunch.com/tag/found/

    • Equity podcast: https://techcrunch.com/tag/equity-podcast/

    • VentureBeat: https://venturebeat.com/

    Fast Company: https://www.fastcompany.com/

    • Clockwise: https://www.getclockwise.com

    • Shopify deleted 322,000 hours of meetings. Should the rest of us be jealous?: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/15/1156804295/shopify-delete-meetings-zoom-virtual-productivity

    • Shopify canceled all recurring meetings. Should you too?: https://www.getclockwise.com/blog/shopify-cancels-meetings

    • Shopify’s new meeting cost calculator is well intentioned—but it’s not addressing the issue: https://www.fastcompany.com/90930137/shopifys-new-meeting-cost-calculator-is-well-intentioned-but-its-not-addressing-the-issue

    • Matt Martin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/voxmatt/

    • Ramp: https://ramp.com/welcome

    • Corporate card start-up Ramp targets Bill.com with free payments software: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/26/corporate-cards-ramp-targets-billcom-with-free-payments-software.html

    • Bill: https://www.bill.com/

    • Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp-became-the-fastest-growing-saas-startup-of-all-time-geoff-charl/

    • Column Tax: https://www.columntax.com/

    • Propel: https://www.joinpropel.com/

    • Gamma: https://gamma.app/

    • Gamma brings in $7M to bring the slide deck into the 21st century: https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/28/gamma-brings-in-7m-to-bring-the-slide-deck-into-the-21st-century/

    • NewBank: https://www.newbankusa.com/

    • Backed by a16z, Relay races to market with Zapier in its crosshairs: https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/11/relay-a16z-zapier-google/

    • Zapier: https://zapier.com/

    • Rajiv Ayyangar’s thread on X about tag lines: https://twitter.com/rajivayyangar/status/1758179077629100482

    • Entropy: https://entropytechnologydesign.com/

    • Money 20/20: https://www.money2020.com/

    • Jim Bankoff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimbankoff/

    • Ramping Up: https://www.notboring.co/p/ramping-up

    • Aaron Levie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/boxaaron/

    • Aaron Levie on X: https://twitter.com/levie

    • Duolingo on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@duolingo

    • Morning Brew: https://www.morningbrew.com/

    • Tech Brew: https://www.emergingtechbrew.com/

    • HR Brew: https://www.hr-brew.com/

    • Mark Zuckerberg on Morning Brew Daily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQqsvRHjas4&t=1309s

    How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence: https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Mind-Consciousness-Transcendence/dp/1594204225

    The Walking Dead on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/70177057

    Yellowjackets on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/yellowjackets/

    The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

    • Apple Vision Pro: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro

    • TNB Tech Minute: Startup Perplexity Challenges Google With AI Search: https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/tech-news-briefing/tnb-tech-minute-startup-perplexity-challenges-google-with-ai-search/984362d5-a8f0-48b4-8b55-ad7e570a74d2

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    🔑 Key Takeaways

    • Effectively target publications, craft pitches, reach reporters, and tell compelling product stories. Warm introductions aren't always necessary, and podcasts and newsletters can be effective alternatives to traditional media. Cost and lead time of working with a PR agency versus doing it in-house were discussed.
    • Press can act as third-party validation for B2B companies, boosting credibility and trust. For consumer-focused firms, press can drive growth through increased exposure and understanding of the product's value.
    • Press coverage can enhance brand recognition, credibility, and even lead to indirect sales through affiliate marketing.
    • To secure press coverage for a funding round, founders must communicate effectively, offer exclusivity, and tailor pitches to the publication's focus. Following up respectfully and staying informed about media landscapes is essential.
    • Understand each publication's strengths and tailor pitches accordingly for maximum media outreach. Opportunities include speaking at conferences, podcast interviews, investment advice, product stories, and op-eds.
    • Early-stage startups can secure coverage in major publications by building relationships with relevant reporters and contributing to their networks. However, feature articles may require higher valuations and hard business metrics, while podcasts and awards can provide alternative opportunities for exposure.
    • Identify target audience and podcast vertical, analyze podcast's status, guest suitability, and host connections, gather customer media preferences, maintain a friendly tone, and building a warm connection is optional but beneficial.
    • Focus on being helpful, professional, and concise in pitches. Identify and address gaps in reporters' coverage. Cold outreach done well can be effective. Provide unique perspectives and insights. Use clear and direct subject lines. Be respectful. Adopt a multi-platform approach.
    • Be direct, concise, and acknowledge their busy inbox. Identify gaps in their coverage and offer a compelling and original story idea.
    • When pitching to reporters, it's more effective to position your company as improving upon or challenging an existing market leader, rather than creating a new category.
    • Effectively communicate human stories in PR strategy to secure media coverage that resonates with audiences. Use visuals, testimonials, and build interest to engage reporters.
    • To increase chances of media coverage, identify trends in outlet's coverage and tailor pitches to those themes using clear, concise language, fun facts, and offering exclusives.
    • Personalize and customize pitches, use clear and concise language, reference relevant context, read pitches out loud, and focus on the basics: what does it do, who is it for, and who are the customers?
    • Focus on essentials, remove jargon, write in first-person, engage audience, avoid exaggerated growth claims.
    • Founders can create interest and excitement in their PR efforts by sharing personal stories and experiences, especially when targeting niche publications or media. Utilize newsletters, podcasts, and social media to build a following and reach journalists.
    • Executives' personal engagement on social media can lead to media coverage, a following, and business benefits. Staying on trend and having a personality helps attract attention and engagement.
    • Startups can benefit from smaller PR agencies that specialize in their unique needs and are willing to experiment and be scrappy. Participating in media opportunities like Morning Brew's Co-working series can lead to valuable exposure.
    • Select an agency with a compatible work style, allow a six-week lead time for announcements, and budget at least $10,000 per month for quality representation.
    • PR consultants charge between $10,000 and $20,000 for a one-time story, Emily recommends 'How to Change Your Mind' for personal growth, she enjoys 'Yellow Jackets', asks 'What's the big idea?' for assessing press-worthy announcements, is excited for a psilocybin retreat, and is impressed by Apple Vision Pro
    • Stay updated with new tools and strategies, adapt and change opinions, and use strong opinions loosely held for productivity and effectiveness in marketing and PR.

    📝 Podcast Summary

    Practical Steps for Startups to Get Press Coverage

    While theory and learning from big PR blunders are important, startups looking for press coverage need practical steps. Emily Gerber, founder and CEO of Six Eastern PR agency, shared valuable insights on how to effectively target publications, craft pitches, reach reporters, and tell compelling product stories. Warm introductions to reporters aren't always necessary, and podcasts and newsletters can be effective alternatives to traditional media. The cost and lead time of working with a PR agency versus doing it in-house were also discussed. Through examples of successful and unsuccessful press and outreach, listeners can learn effective strategies for getting press coverage. Additionally, Emily shared a successful pitch example for a podcast guest. If you're looking to get press for your startup, consider the practical advice shared in this conversation.

    Press as a valuable second order effect for businesses

    Press can provide valuable second order effects for businesses, both B2B and consumer-focused. For B2B companies, press can act as a form of third-party validation, signaling credibility and legitimacy to potential clients and investors. This can be especially important for early-stage companies trying to build trust and establish a presence in their industry. On the consumer side, press can be a significant driver of growth for companies offering easy-to-use, low-barrier products. For instance, a Google alternative like Perplexity saw a massive spike in sign-ups after receiving organic press coverage. The ease of use and accessibility of such products allows potential customers to quickly understand their value and make informed decisions. Ultimately, while the direct impact of press on sign-ups and growth may not always be immediate or measurable, the long-term benefits of increased credibility and exposure can be substantial.

    Press coverage's impact on brand recognition and credibility

    While press coverage may not always lead to direct first-order growth, it holds significant value for businesses, particularly in the form of brand recognition and credibility. The presence of reputable publication logos on a website or in outbound emails can make a substantial impact. Moreover, the storytelling aspect of press coverage can provide an opportunity to showcase a company's unique journey and culture, which may not directly drive sales but can benefit areas like recruitment. Additionally, for consumer-focused businesses, affiliate marketing is a common practice where publications receive a percentage of sales generated from the coverage. While the decision to invest in press coverage for fundraising announcements is subjective, it can be an effective strategy when executed correctly.

    Securing Press Coverage for Funding Rounds: Effective Communication and Tailored Pitches

    While securing press coverage for a funding round can be a valuable opportunity for startups, the process requires a clear and concise approach. TechCrunch is often the go-to publication for funding stories, but founders must ensure they communicate effectively and offer an exclusive, well-defined pitch. Being straightforward and following up respectfully are essential. When targeting publications, it's important to understand each outlet's focus and tailor pitches accordingly. TechCrunch is particularly suitable for funding stories, but other publications like Axios and Verge may have different areas of expertise. Keep in mind that media landscapes are constantly evolving, so staying informed about changes and adjusting strategies accordingly is crucial.

    Maximizing Media Outreach: Beyond Funding Announcements

    While different media outlets have their unique focuses and styles, there are various ways to engage with them beyond just securing a funding announcement. TechCrunch, for instance, offers opportunities like speaking at their conference, podcast interviews, and investment advice. Axios, known for its deals focus, also covers regional news and product stories through its local editions. Business Insider is famous for its pitch deck stories, providing a platform to share core business messages directly. VentureBeat is an excellent choice for AI news, and Fast Company excels in coverage related to the future of work and design. Forbes, known for its awards, is open to op-eds with leadership advice. To maximize media outreach, it's essential to understand each publication's strengths and tailor pitches accordingly.

    Building relationships with relevant reporters and contributing to their networks can lead to coverage for early-stage startups in major publications.

    While major publications like The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal may not cover early-stage startups extensively, they do have strong contributor networks that are more open to covering emerging companies. Building relationships with relevant reporters and contributing to their networks can lead to coverage. However, for feature articles, these publications typically require a higher valuation and hard business metrics, which may not be feasible for early-stage companies. Additionally, publications like CNBC target public markets and may not be suitable for early-stage companies. To avoid negative coverage, ensure that spokespersons clearly communicate desired messaging to reporters and correct any factual inaccuracies. As for finding podcasts and awards to target, research industry-specific podcasts and awards programs that align with your business and actively pursue opportunities to participate.

    Pitching to Podcasts for PR: A Strategic Approach

    Effectively pitching to podcasts for PR involves a strategic approach. First, identify the target audience and vertical of the podcast. Next, conduct a qualitative analysis, considering factors like the podcast's active status, guest suitability, and host connections. Additionally, informally gathering information from customers about their media preferences can be helpful. When reaching out, maintain a friendly and casual tone, and avoid heavy initial pitches. Lastly, having a warm connection to a reporter or podcast host is not essential, but building one can increase the chances of a successful pitch.

    Effective pitching strategies for building relationships with reporters

    Building long-term relationships with reporters for the sole purpose of securing coverage may not be sustainable due to the rapidly changing media landscape. Instead, focusing on being helpful, professional, and concise in pitches, as well as identifying and addressing gaps in their coverage, can be more effective in gaining their attention and trust. Cold outreach done well can be just as effective as having a pre-existing relationship, and being able to provide unique perspectives and insights can make your pitches stand out. Additionally, using clear and direct subject lines, being respectful, and adopting a multi-platform approach can increase the chances of a successful pitch.

    Pitching a Unique Story to Reporters

    When pitching a story to a reporter, it's essential to offer something unique, interesting, and thoughtful. Being direct and concise in your initial message is key, keeping it to three sentences or less. Acknowledging their busy inbox and identifying gaps in their coverage are effective strategies. However, being controversial or contrarian isn't always necessary. An example of this is when Clockwise, a company that manages calendars, proposed a more critical perspective on Shopify's decision to cancel all recurring meetings. This op-ed approach resulted in coverage by Fast Company. Overall, providing a compelling and original story idea is the best way to grab a reporter's attention.

    Positioning against market leaders for clearer understanding

    When pitching reporters for PR, it's more effective to position your company as improving upon or challenging an existing market leader, rather than creating a new category. This frame of reference gives reporters a clear understanding of your company's offerings and how they're different from the competition. For instance, Ramp's pitch about taking on bill.com in the bill pay market. Instead of focusing on creating a new category, they highlighted their ability to compete with a company that was already getting significant press. This approach resulted in a CNBC story and a follow-up article mentioning Ramp's news, which boosted their visibility. By contrast, a generic pitch that focuses on creating a new category might not be as compelling to reporters.

    Focus on human stories in PR strategy

    Effective PR strategy involves identifying and focusing on the most interesting and relatable aspects of a story, rather than just sharing company messaging or metrics. This can help secure media coverage that resonates with audiences. For example, when working with TurboTax, the team chose to highlight their initiative supporting low-income families and their partnership with the IRS to offer free tax filing, rather than sharing their latest gross metrics. Similarly, when promoting Gamma, a company creating a modern and interactive PowerPoint alternative, the team created a visually engaging presentation and included customer testimonials and a video from the lead investor, making the story more personal and fun for reporters. Remember, the key is to be human in your language, keep it visual, and make it interesting. And when sharing your story with reporters, don't give away the whole story right away, but rather build interest and provide them with a compelling reason to cover your news.

    Tailoring pitches to media trends

    When pitching stories to media outlets, it's important to stand out from the crowd by sharing unique and relevant information. The media is always looking for fresh perspectives and interesting stories that resonate with their audience. In this discussion, the importance of identifying trends in the media outlet's coverage and tailoring pitches to those trends was emphasized. The use of clear and concise language, as well as providing fun and intriguing facts, can also help make a pitch more appealing. It's also recommended to offer exclusives to increase the chances of getting a response. The process of pitching can take time, but doing thorough research and customizing pitches can lead to successful placements. The key is to understand the audience and the media outlet's focus and provide valuable information that aligns with those interests.

    Crafting Effective Pitches and Press Releases

    Crafting effective pitches and press releases requires a strategic balance between quantity and quality. It's important to personalize and customize messages to target audiences, rather than blasting the same pitch to a large list of recipients. Clear and concise language is essential, and referencing relevant context or competitors can help clarify the value proposition. Additionally, reading pitches out loud and ensuring they can be easily understood by a layperson can help identify and address potential issues. A significant number of press releases suffer from vague or marketing-speak language, and it's essential to communicate in a human and relatable way. To improve, consider focusing on the basics: what does the product do, who is it for, and who are the customers? Answering these questions succinctly and clearly can make all the difference in effectively communicating the value of your product or service.

    Mastering Effective Communication in Marketing

    Effective communication, especially in writing, can be a challenge for many marketers and founders, but it's a crucial skill to master. By focusing on the essentials and removing unnecessary jargon, you can clearly articulate what your business is about, who it's for, and why people should care. Press releases are an outdated way to disseminate news, as most people no longer rely on them for information. Instead, consider writing a blog post, or other first-person content, which offers more flexibility in style and is more shareable on social media. Remember, the goal is to engage your audience and encourage them to visit your website, rather than getting lost in a press release. Additionally, avoid exaggerated growth claims, as they often come across as insincere and don't add value to your messaging.

    Leveraging Personal Stories in PR

    Founders should not underestimate the power of sharing a specific and relatable growth story or personal angle when pitching to media, even if their product or company may not seem as glamorous or revolutionary as some others. This approach can help create interest and excitement, especially when targeting publications that focus on personal stories or niche industries. Newsletters, podcasts, and social media platforms are increasingly important channels for reaching journalists and building a following, and should be integrated into a comprehensive PR strategy alongside traditional media outlets. The success stories of companies like Entropy, which leveraged the founder's personal experiences and industry connections, demonstrate the potential impact of this approach. Additionally, collaborating with peers and colleagues to create panel discussions or other content can lead to valuable opportunities and exposure.

    Executives can boost a company's social media presence

    Having executives engage in social media can significantly enhance a company's social media presence compared to just relying on corporate channels. The founder's personal experience shows that even a single tweet can lead to media coverage and a following, but it's not always easy to achieve success by outsourcing social media to an agency. Executives who are willing to push their opinions and be bold can potentially attract more attention and engagement. However, it's important to remember that people follow individuals, not just brands, and having a personality on social media can help build a following. While some brands, like Duolingo, have found success with a humorous approach, it's essential to stay on top of trends and adapt to changing social media landscapes. For those who don't find social media engagement natural, it can still be worth trying, as even modest engagement can lead to business benefits. Aaron's approach to tweeting, specifically, is effective for him due to his natural ability to engage and generate buzz.

    Smaller PR Agencies Offer Unique Benefits to Startups

    PR success doesn't always come from working with the biggest, most well-known agencies. Instead, startups and smaller companies can benefit from agencies that specialize in their unique needs and are willing to experiment and be scrappy. Observing a seasoned PR professional, like Aaron from Box, can teach valuable best practices, such as inserting oneself into relevant news conversations and maintaining a strong online presence. A practical media opportunity for gaining exposure is participating in Morning Brew's Co-working series, which features interviews with professionals from various industries. By providing interesting and fun responses, there's a 50% chance of getting featured, offering valuable insights to readers.

    Understanding an agency's work style and timeline is crucial

    When selecting a PR agency, it's crucial to understand their work style and timeline from the beginning. Agencies can vary greatly in their approach, with some requiring a significant ramp-up period and others jumping into action quickly. Additionally, reviewing recent writing samples and meeting the day-to-day team members can provide valuable insights into the agency's capabilities. Regarding timing, aim for a six-week lead time before an announcement to allow for comprehensive preparation and coordination with reporters. Lastly, a minimum budget for a PR agency is around $10,000 per month, with the best agencies starting at $8,000. Flexibility in scheduling is also essential for maximizing media coverage.

    Insights from a PR Consultant on Industry Trends and Personal Growth

    The cost for a one-time PR story can range between $10,000 and $20,000. Emily, a PR consultant, shared her insights on the industry and recommended Michael Pollan's book "How to Change Your Mind" for those interested in personal growth and leadership. She also mentioned her favorite TV show, "Yellow Jackets," and her new favorite interview question for assessing a client's press-worthy announcements. Emily expressed her excitement for an upcoming psilocybin retreat and her admiration for the show's ability to leave a lasting impression. Additionally, she shared her recent discovery and enthusiasm for Apple Vision Pro, despite initial skepticism. Emily's interview showcased her passion for her work and her unique perspective on the PR industry.

    Using Technology and PR Strategy for Productivity and Effectiveness

    Technology tools like Perplexity and having a strong PR strategy can significantly enhance productivity and effectiveness in various aspects of work, particularly in marketing and PR. Emily, the guest in the podcast, emphasizes the importance of staying updated with new tools and strategies, as well as being willing to adapt and change opinions. She also mentioned her favorite life motto, "strong opinions loosely held," which highlights the importance of being opinionated but also open to new ideas. For those interested in learning more about Emily and her team's work, they can check out their website, 6eastern.com, or subscribe to their newsletter, On Background, for tactical opportunities and industry insights. They are also hiring PR professionals with B2B experience and a hands-on approach.

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    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How Nubank builds a fanatical user base

    • Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth

    • Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score

    • The importance of strategic clarity

    • The role of category design in creating successful products

    • Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”

    • Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Mercury—The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be-fundamentally-different-jag-duggal

    Where to find Jag Duggal:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagduggal/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jag’s background

    (04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements

    (06:01) Nubank’s product development process

    (11:23) Nubank’s values

    (12:16) Building products people love fanatically

    (15:21) The Sean Ellis score

    (21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score

    (25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers

    (28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating

    (30:42) Pushing back effectively

    (34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research

    (37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis

    (42:01) Developing a strategy

    (52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”

    (53:10) Category design

    (57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future

    (01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines

    (01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking

    (01:09:23) AI corner

    (01:12:34) Failure corner

    (01:20:24) Key takeaways

    (01:22:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Nubank: https://nubank.com.br/en/

    • Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/

    • Robinhood: https://www.robinhood.com/

    • SoFi: https://www.sofi.com/

    • Affirm: https://www.affirm.com/

    • Lemonade: https://www.lemfi.com/

    • Bank of America: https://www.bankofamerica.com/

    • Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-achieves-world-record-with-nubolao

    • Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/nu-mexico-carries-out-first-financial-transaction-20-meters-under-the-depth-of-the-sea

    • David Vélez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-v%C3%A9lez-1004875

    • Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crisjunqueira

    • Edward Wible on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamedwardwible

    • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

    • Churrascaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria

    • Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-culture-and-values/

    • Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/working-backwards-press-release-template-example-ian-mcallister/

    • Sean Ellis test: https://productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c

    • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket

    • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

    • Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: https://international.nubank.com.br/company/ultravioleta-nubank-expands-its-premium-card-offer-and-adds-new-features-on-the-products-first-anniversary/

    • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY

    • The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: https://www.fastcompany.com/3006797/innovation-method-behind-swiffer-madness

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard

    Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

    The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

    • How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher

    Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets: https://www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619

    Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • Citi: https://www.citi.com/

    • Santander Bank: https://www.santanderbank.com/

    • Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/

    • Harvard Kennedy School: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/

    • Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-wojcicki-b136a99/

    • Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCDRm_YRFg

    • Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/technology/14DoubleClick.html

    • Real-time bidding: https://support.google.com/authorizedbuyers/answer/6136272

    From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765/

    The Gilded Age on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age

    • Lomi: https://lomi.com/

    • Nubank careers: https://international.nubank.com.br/careers/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    Vikrama Dhiman heads all things product at Gojek, including product management, design, program management, and research, across Indonesia, Singapore and India. He has over 16 years of experience building internet products, consults with Fortune 500 companies, and is among the most well-known and respected product leaders in all of Asia. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The most common traits among successful product managers

    • The 3 W’s framework for PM career growth

    • The Four A’s of leveling up in product management

    • The right way to push back as a PM

    • Common pitfalls that stall PM careers

    • Vikrama’s advice for transitioning into product management

    • Why intent alone is not enough

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-pm-skill-development

    Where to find Vikrama Dhiman:

    • X: https://twitter.com/vikramadhiman

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrama/

    • Website: https://www.vikramadhiman.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Vikrama’s background

    (03:56) Three common traits among great PMs

    (07:09) The first W: What you produce

    (15:40) The second W: What you bring to the table

    (18:58) The third W: What’s your operating model?

    (20:36) Three traits that make you a great PM to work with

    (21:49) How to improve the quality and quantity of your outputs

    (23:26) The art of the pushback

    (26:55) Common factors that impede career growth

    (33:39) Vikrama’s personal reflections

    (39:33) Choosing which skill(s) to focus on developing

    (46:28) The ambiguity of the PM role

    (51:47) The 8 axis for PM growth

    (56:57) Contrarian corner: Why intent alone is not enough

    (59:30) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Taxi mafias, cash vaults, and 100% MoM growth: The story behind Southeast Asia’s biggest startup | Kevin Aluwi (Gojek): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom

    • How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-hire-for-measure-and-unlock

    • Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id

    • SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL

    • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

    • Crystal Widjaja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalwidjaja

    • Raditya Wibowo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raditya-wibowo-a0845436/?originalSubdomain=id

    • Sidu Ponnappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidup

    • Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your

    • Kevin Aluwi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/

    • Workday: https://www.workday.com/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    Small Data: The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Data-Clues-Uncover-Trends/dp/1250080681

    Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World: https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X

    Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555

    Miss Congeniality on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Congeniality-Sandra-Bullock/dp/B002R5HQDK

    Schitt’s Creek on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Schitts-Creek/dp/B083LDRW9F

    • DramaBox: https://www.dramaboxapp.com/

    Am I Overthinking This?: Over-Answering Life’s Questions in 101 Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Am-Overthinking-This-Over-answering-questions/dp/1452175861/

    Crazy Rich Asians on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Rich-Asians-Constance-Wu/dp/B07JGJFXBF

    • 9 Best Hawker Centers in Singapore—and What to Eat There: https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-hawker-centers-in-singapore-and-what-to-eat-there

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers)

    Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers)

    Hamilton Helmer is one of the world’s leading experts on business strategy and the author of the seminal book 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy, which provides a comprehensive framework for understanding what it really takes to achieve and sustain a competitive advantage. With more than three decades of experience in the strategic consulting industry, Hamilton has advised over 200 companies—from burgeoning startups to Fortune 100 giants—on how to identify, build, and leverage their unique strategic powers. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Potential sources of power that startups should develop from an early stage

    • Common misconceptions among companies about the types of power they possess

    • How power relates to strategy

    • The difference between a moat and a power

    • Practical strategies for non-leaders to leverage insights about power and strategy in their work

    • AI’s impact on competitive advantages and barriers to entry

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    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

    Where to find Hamilton Helmer:

    • X: https://twitter.com/hamiltonhelmer

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamilton-helmer-42983/

    • Website: https://7powers.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Hamilton’s background

    (04:08) When power becomes important

    (08:24) How strategy relates to power

    (12:09) How power informs strategy

    (14:46) The sequence of powers

    (21:13) Common misconceptions

    (24:39) Network effects vs. network economies

    (26:58) Uber’s success

    (29:16) Moats vs. powers

    (31:12) Strategies for non-leaders to leverage power and strategy

    (37:51) Advice on how to become a strategic thinker

    (39:27) AI’s impact on the seven powers

    (45:43) Why moving fast is not a power

    (50:24) Three things that create value in a company

    (51:16) The debt trajectory of the U.S.

    (56:35) Optimism for the future

    (59:25) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

    • John von Neumann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

    • Pearl Harbor: https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/pearl-harbor

    • Where the Japanese Went Wrong at Pearl Harbor: https://pearlharbor.org/blog/where-japanese-went-wrong-pearl-harbor/

    • The ‘7 Powers’ of business success—from one of Netflix’s early investors: https://www.qualitycompounders.com.au/post/the-7-powers-of-business-success-from-one-of-netflix-s-early-investors

    • 7 Powers: Foundations of Business Strategy (Key Takeaways): https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-powers-foundations-business-strategy-key-takeaways-nikita-maloo/

    • Strategy Capital: https://strategycapital.com/

    • Warren Buffett: https://www.forbes.com/profile/warren-buffett/

    • Charlie Munger: https://www.forbes.com/profile/charles-munger/

    • Poor Charlie’s Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger: https://www.stripe.press/poor-charlies-almanack

    • Bill Gates reveals why Warren Buffett was an invaluable source of support during the stormiest period of his career: https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-interview-warren-buffett-support-microsoft-antitrust-lawsuit-2019-6

    •  Billionaire Warren Buffett’s Secret Love Affair With Castles, Revealed: https://www.thestreet.com/opinion/billionaire-warren-buffett-s-secret-love-affair-with-castles-revealed-14290973

    • Netflix didn’t kill Blockbuster—how Netflix almost lost the movie rental wars: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/22/how-netflix-almost-lost-the-movie-rental-wars-to-blockbuster.html

    • Michael Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorporter/

    • What Is Strategy?: https://hbr.org/1996/11/what-is-strategy

    • TSMC: https://www.tsmc.com/english

    • Toyota Production System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System

    • America will be left with ‘severe, irreversible scars’ if national debt goes unchecked. Now, a blockbuster report warns the bill is higher than believed, hitting $141T by 2054: https://fortune.com/2024/04/01/america-social-economic-scars-us-debt-gomes-price/

    • Ben S. Bernanke: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/people/ben-s-bernanke

    • Forty-four of 50 U.S. states worsen inequality with ‘upside-down’ taxes: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/states-wealth-inequality-taxes

    • Joseph A. Schumpeter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schumpeter

    Theory of Economic Development: https://www.amazon.com/Theory-Economic-Development-Science-Classics/dp/0878556982

    The Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Reality-Complete-Guide-Universe/dp/0679776311

    The Gene: An Intimate History: https://www.amazon.com/Gene-Intimate-History-Siddhartha-Mukherjee/dp/147673352X

    American Fiction on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/American-Fiction-Jeffrey-Wright/dp/B0CQKR72NX

    • Farahan Sarouk rugs: https://nazmiyalantiquerugs.com/persian-sarouk-farahan-rugs/

    • Rory Sutherland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland

    • Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/

    • Clint Eastwood quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/clint_eastwood_168005

    • Winston Churchill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

    Michelangelo, God’s Architect: The Story of His Final Years and Greatest Masterpiece: https://www.amazon.com/Michelangelo-Gods-Architect-Greatest-Masterpiece/dp/0691195498

    The Last Judgment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Judgment_(Michelangelo)

    • Theodore Roosevelt: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/theodore-roosevelt/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”, former pro poker player)

    This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”, former pro poker player)

    Annie Duke is a former professional poker player, a decision-making expert, and a special partner at First Round Capital. She is the author of Thinking in Bets (a national bestseller) and Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away and the co-founder of the Alliance for Decision Education, a nonprofit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. In our conversation, we cover:

    • What Annie learned from the late Daniel Kahneman

    • The power of pre-mortems and “kill criteria”

    • The relationship between money and happiness

    • The power of “mental time travel”

    • The nominal group technique for better decision quality

    • How First Round Capital improved their decision-making process

    • Many tactical decision-making frameworks

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-better-decisions-annie-duke

    Where to find Annie Duke:

    • X: https://twitter.com/AnnieDuke

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-duke/

    • Website: https://www.annieduke.com/

    • Substack: https://www.annieduke.com/substack/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Annie’s background

    (03:53) Lessons from Daniel Kahneman: humility, curiosity, and open-mindedness

    (09:15) The importance of unconditional love in parenting

    (15:15) Mental time travel and “nevertheless”

    (20:06) The extent of improvement possible in decision-making 

    (24:54) Independent brainstorming for better decisions

    (35:36) Making sure people feel heard

    (42:41) The “3Ds” framework to make better decisions

    (44:49) Decision quality

    (55:46) Improving decision-making at First Round Capital

    (01:05:05) Using pre-mortems and kill criteria

    (01:10:15) Making explicit what’s implicit

    (01:10:55) The challenges of quitting and knowing when to walk away

    (01:19:23) Where to find Annie

    Referenced:

    • Daniel Kahneman, Who Plumbed the Psychology of Economics, Dies at 90: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/daniel-kahneman-dead.html

    • Adversarial collaboration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_collaboration

    • Does more money correlate with greater happiness?: https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/does-more-money-correlate-greater-happiness-Penn-Princeton-research#

    • Income and emotional well-being: A conflict resolved: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36857342/

    • Strategic decisions: When can you trust your gut?: https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/strategic-decisions-when-can-you-trust-your-gut

    • Cass Sunstein on X: https://twitter.com/CassSunstein

    • Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • First Round Capital: https://firstround.com/

    • Brett Berson on X: https://twitter.com/brettberson

    • Renegade Partners: https://www.renegadepartners.com/

    • Renata Quintini on X: https://twitter.com/rquintini

    • Roseanne Wincek on X: https://twitter.com/imthemusic

    • Josh Kopelman on X: https://twitter.com/joshk

    • Bill Trenchard on X: https://twitter.com/btrenchard

    • Linnea Gandhi on X: https://twitter.com/linneagandhi

    • Maurice Schweitzer on X: https://twitter.com/me_schweitzer

    • Problems with premortems: https://sjdm.org/presentations/2021-Poster-Gandhi-Linnea-debiasing-premortem-selfserving~.pdf

    • Create a Solid Plan on How to Fail Big This Year: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2020/02/07/create-a-solid-plan-on-how-to-fail-big-this-year/

    Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away: https://www.amazon.com/Quit-Power-Knowing-When-Walk/dp/0593422996/

    • Richard Thaler on X: https://twitter.com/R_Thaler

    • Stewart Butterfield on X: https://twitter.com/stewart

    • Glitch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch_(video_game)

    • How the Founder of Slack & Flickr Turned Colossal Failures into Billion-Dollar Companies: https://medium.com/swlh/how-the-founder-of-slack-flickr-turned-failures-into-million-and-billion-dollar-companies-7bcaf0d35d66

    • The Most Fascinating Profile You’ll Ever Read About a Guy and His Boring Startup: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/the-most-fascinating-profile-youll-ever-read-about-a-guy-and-his-boring-startup/

    • The Alliance for Decision Education: https://alliancefordecisioneducation.org/

    • Make Better Decisions course on Maven: https://maven.com/annie-duke/make-better-decisions

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



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    Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour

    Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour

    Kayvon Beykpour was the longest-serving head of product at Twitter and was GM of Twitter’s consumer division until the platform was acquired by Elon Musk. He originally joined Twitter in 2015 through the acquisition of his company, Periscope, the largest live video streaming platform at the time. Periscope pioneered technology that inspired Instagram Live, TikTok Live, Facebook Live, and other social networks’ expansion into video streaming. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The story of being let go from Twitter after Elon’s acquisition

    • How he turned Twitter’s stagnant culture around

    • Kayvon’s thoughts on the limitations of frameworks like Jobs to Be Done

    • Why Periscope failed

    • Advice for building consumer products

    • When to copy, when to innovate

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/twitters-former-head-of-product-kayvon-beykpour

    Where to find Kayvon Beykpour:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kayvz

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kayvz/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kayvon’s background

    (04:31) Getting Elon up to speed at Twitter

    (11:34) The story of being let go from Twitter after Elon’s acquisition

    (21:09) Changing the product culture at Twitter

    (29:44) Building the “hide replies” feature

    (32:02) Sacred crows, taking bold bets, and reigniting growth

    (34:28) Aquihires and their impact

    (42:40) Tips for successful acquisitions and staffing

    (47:00) The limitations of frameworks like JTBD

    (53:20) Signs you’ve gone too far with a framework

    (57:44) Lessons from building Periscope

    (01:00:41) Reasons why Periscope failed

    (01:07:24) The challenges of implementing video at Twitter

    (01:12:05) Copying ideas in good taste

    (01:17:58) How to get better at building consumer products

    (01:19:51) What Kayvon is building

    (01:20:31) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/

    • What it’s like to sell your startup for ~$120 million before it’s even launched: Meet Twitter’s new prized possession, Periscope: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-periscope-and-why-twitter-bought-it-2015-3

    • Walter Isaacson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/walter-isaacson-b8b81520/

    • Elon Musk on X: https://twitter.com/elonmusk

    • Parag Agrawal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parag-agrawal-5a14742a/

    • Jack Dorsey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-dorsey-a43b07242/

    • Blackboard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Inc.

    • Keith Coleman on X: https://twitter.com/kcoleman

    • Esther Crawford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esthercrawford/

    • Twitter acquires Chroma Labs: https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/twitter-acquires-chroma-labs-story-aqvcRPAoYXqXJuAbefA6cN.html

    • John Barnett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarnettt/

    • Jobs to Be Done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

    • Hot takes and techno-optimism from tech’s top power couple: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

    • Nike Is Unveiling the Kobe 11 Tomorrow Using Periscope: https://sneakernews.com/2015/12/13/nike-is-unveiling-the-kobe-11-tomorrow-using-periscope/

    • Chris Sacca’s website: https://chrissacca.com/

    • Facebook Live: https://www.facebook.com/formedia/tools/facebook-live

    • Kevin Hart on X: https://twitter.com/KevinHart4real

    • Clubhouse: https://www.clubhouse.com/

    • Vine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_(service)

    • Paul Davison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davison/

    • Rohan Seth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohanseth/

    Cryptonomicon: https://www.amazon.com/Cryptonomicon-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0380788624

    Reamde: https://www.amazon.com/Reamde-Novel-Neal-Stephenson-ebook/dp/B004XVN0WW

    The Name of the Wind: https://www.amazon.com/Name-Wind-Kingkiller-Chronicle-Book-ebook/dp/B0010SKUYM

    Star Trek official site: https://www.startrek.com/

    Dune: part 2: https://www.dunemovie.com/

    Oppenheimer on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-movies/oppenheimer

    • Tokyo Vice on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/tokyo-vice/e7d93204-7f98-4e62-ab52-6c1da053f942

    Devs on Hulu: https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/devs

    • Nick Offerman on X: https://twitter.com/nick_offerman

    3 Body Problem on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81024821

    • Perplexity AI: https://www.perplexity.ai/

    • Particle: https://www.particle.news/

    • Crokinole board game: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/521/crokinole

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

    How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

    Carole Robin spent over 20 years teaching the Stanford Graduate School of Business course Interpersonal Dynamics, affectionately known as “Touchy Feely.” After leaving Stanford, she founded a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which applies the Touchy Feely principles to help Silicon Valley executives build their leadership and interpersonal skills. Carole co-authored the popular book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, which shares key insights from her decades of teaching these courses. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The benefits of building robust relationships, in life and work

    • The 15% rule, and how it will help you build better relationships

    • The power of vulnerability

    • Examples of how to practice vulnerability

    • Why mental models you build early in life hold you back later

    • The “three realities” and “the net”

    • The art of inquiry

    • Practical tips for avoiding defensiveness when getting feedback

    • The impact of long Covid on Carole’s life

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    Where to find Carole Robin:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carole-robin/

    • Email: carolerobinllc@gmail.com

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Carole’s background

    (05:17) The importance of building robust relationships

    (10:20) The “Touchy Feely” course at Stanford

    (13:29) An example of the in-class experience

    (17:19) Leaders in Tech: developing interpersonal competence

    (21:36) Progressive disclosure and the 15% rule

    (24:28) Appropriate disclosure

    (26:52) The power of vulnerability

    (34:57) Admitting mistakes and sharing feelings

    (37:08) Understanding mental models

    (42:57) The “three realities” framework

    (53:52) The power of feedback and personal change

    (58:47) The art of inquiry

    (01:03:27) How to get better at giving feedback

    (01:07:47) Exercises and continued learning

    (01:10:49) “Advice hinders relationships”

    (01:16:49) Failure corner: AFOG

    (01:20:30) Takeaways

    (01:21:51) Lessons from long Covid

    Referenced:

    • How to Build Better Relationships: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/how-build-better-relationships

    Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues-ebook/dp/B0894279WZ

    • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

    • Leaders in Tech Fellows: https://leadersintech.org/learnaboutfellows

    • Steve Jobs: https://www.forbes.com/profile/steve-jobs/

    • Sheryl Sandberg on X: https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg

    • Ursula Burns: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ursula-burns/

    • Application for Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/programs-and-applications

    • Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development and Scaffolding Theory: https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-development.html

    • The Best Leaders Aren’t Afraid to Be Vulnerable: https://hbr.org/2022/07/the-best-leaders-arent-afraid-of-being-vulnerable

    • The Surprising Benefits of Admitting Mistakes: 5 Ways to Build Intellectual Humility: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2021/12/29/the-surprising-benefits-of-admitting-mistakes-5-ways-to-build-intellectual-humility/

    • How to Build Conflict Skills—The Pinch/Crunch Model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahart/2023/12/15/how-to-build-conflict-skills-the-pinchcrunch-model/

    • Slides mentioned (The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines): https://pen-name.notion.site/Carole-Robin-4-25-5d47d38a620e4636966d31f4bf3c7d00?pvs=4

    Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

    • Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

    • Long COVID: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2

    • Leadership, acceptance, and self-management: my journey with long COVID: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leadership-acceptance-self-management-my-journey-long-carole-robin/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma)

    Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma)

    Mihika Kapoor is a design-engineer-PM hybrid at Figma, where she was an early PM on FigJam and is now spearheading development on a new product at the company that’s coming out this June. She’s known as the go-to person at Figma for leading new 0-to-1 products, and, as you’ll hear in our conversation, beloved by everyone she works with. Her background includes founding Design Nation, a national nonprofit focused on democratizing design education for undergraduates; spearheading product launches at Meta; and community building within the NYC AI startup scene. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How to effectively take ideas from 0 to 1 at larger companies

    • How to craft a compelling vision

    • The importance of vulnerability and feedback

    • The role of intuition and product sense in making decisions

    • How to practically communicate your vision

    • How to balance collaboration and strong opinions

    • Advice for building a strong team culture

    • Pivoting with grace and enthusiasm

    • The current AI revolution and its impact on PM

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    Where to find Mihika Kapoor:

    • X: https://twitter.com/mihikapoor

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Mihika’s background

    (04:29) Core attributes of great product managers

    (07:34) Crafting a compelling vision

    (12:12) The vision behind FigJam 

    (18:25) Delivering a vision without design or engineering skills

    (21:52) Creating momentum

    (26:36) The importance of strong conviction

    (27:45) Direct communication

    (32:48) Building hype

    (42:20) Immersing yourself in user insights

    (47:16) Operationalizing user insights  

    (50:33) Caring deeply about what you build

    (54:01) Finding passion in your work

    (57:00) Building a strong culture

    (01:07:07) Pivoting with grace and enthusiasm

    (01:11:48) Design Nation

    (01:13:15) Mihika’s weaknesses

    (01:16:07) Building new products at larger companies

    (01:20:50) Coming up with a great idea

    (01:22:49) The key to going from 0 to 1

    (01:26:47) Spreading the idea across the company

    (01:29:15) Closing thoughts

    (01:32:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Figma: https://www.figma.com/

    • Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/

    The Medici Effect: What Elephants and Epidemics Can Teach Us About Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Medici-Effect-Preface-Discussion-Guide/dp/1633692949

    • FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

    • Cognition: https://www.cognition-labs.com/

    • Devin: https://www.cognition-labs.com/introducing-devin

    • David Hoang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhoang2/

    • Replit: https://replit.com/

    • The Making of Maker Week at Figma: https://www.figma.com/blog/the-making-of-maker-week/

    • Yuhki Yamashita on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuhki/

    • Jeff Bezos’ Simple Decision-Making Framework Will Give You Clarity, Conviction, and Courage: https://medium.com/illumination/jeff-bezos-simple-decision-making-framework-will-give-you-clarity-conviction-and-courage-adf8d0183625

    • Alice Ching on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliceching/

    • Karl Jiang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-jiang-4a07424/

    • Kris Rasmussen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristopherrasmussen/

    • Config: https://config.figma.com/

    • Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/

    • Asana: https://asana.com/

    • Julie Zhuo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-zhuo/

    • StrengthsFinder test: https://www.gyfted.me/personality-quiz/strengthsfinder-test-free

    • Dylan Field on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/

    • Vishal Shah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vishalnshah/

    Design Disruptors: https://www.invisionapp.com/films/design-disruptors

    • Daniel Burka on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dburka/

    • Jamie Myrold on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiemyrold/

    • Design Nation: https://dn.businesstoday.org/

    • Stuart Weitzman on X: https://twitter.com/StuartWeitzman

    • Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/

    • Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career-nikhyl-singhal-meta-google/

    • Jambot: https://www.figma.com/community/widget/1274481464484630971/jambot

    • Hestia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hestia

    Harry Potter series: https://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Paperback-Box-Books/dp/0545162076

    Pachinko: https://www.amazon.com/Pachinko-National-Book-Award-Finalist/dp/1455563927/

    Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration: https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Expanded-Overcoming-Inspiration/dp/0593594649

    The Overstory: https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039335668X

    Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx

    Dune on Max: https://www.max.com/movies/dune/e7dc7b3a-a494-4ef1-8107-f4308aa6bbf7

    Dune: Part 2: https://www.dunemovie.com/

    • Arc browser: https://arc.net/

    • Pika: https://pika.art/home

    • The power of recognition: Why you should celebrate your employees | Josh Miller: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-power-of-recognition-why-you-should-celebrate-your-employees-josh-miller/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director)

    Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director)

    Dalton Caldwell is Managing Director and Group Partner at Y Combinator. Prior to YC, he was the co-founder and CEO of imeem (acquired by MySpace in 2009) and the co-founder and CEO of App.net. During his time at YC, he’s advised more than 35 YC unicorns, including DoorDash, Amplitude, Webflow, and Retool, and has worked across 21 different YC batches. He’s also racked up more than 6,500 office hours with founders. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why founders need to adopt the mindset “Just don’t die”

    • The most common reason startups fail

    • When to pivot, and characteristics of a good pivot

    • The concept of “tar pit ideas” and examples of bad startup ideas

    • Why investors say no to startups

    • The importance of market size in investment decisions

    • The pitfalls of founders over-delegating

    • Effective ways to talk to customers

    • 20 ideas Dalton is looking to fund

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-1000-yc-startups

    Where to find Dalton Caldwell:

    • X: https://twitter.com/daltonc

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daltoncaldwell/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Dalton’s background

    (04:41) The value of simple advice

    (07:04) Dalton’s advice: “Just don’t die”

    (08:39) Knowing when to stop

    (11:45) Deciding to pivot

    (14:26) Characteristics of a good pivot

    (17:53) Knowing when to pivot

    (19:03) Zip’s journey and finding a market

    (21:22) Why Dalton says to “Move towards the mountains and the desert”

    (23:45) Tar pit ideas

    (26:49) Understanding why investors say no

    (29:14) The importance of market size

    (32:16) Avoiding over-delegation and hiring senior people too early

    (36:43) Why startups fail

    (40:30) Effectively talking to customers

    (45:17) Examples of startups hustling to talk to customers

    (48:01) Patterns of successful startups

    (52:05) YC’s Request for Startups

    (55:37) Early days of Silicon Valley

    (01:05:33) Contrarian corner: growth hacking for early startups

    (01:09:28) Failure corner

    (01:11:15) Closing thoughts

    (01:12:22) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

    • Tiger Woods’s website: https://tigerwoods.com/

    • Co-Founder Mistakes That Kill Companies & How to Avoid Them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfjs_eEEzs

    • Daniel Alberson’s LinkedIn post about Y Combinator: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alberson_i-left-my-dream-job-as-a-product-manager-activity-7089677882431533056-jJ9H

    • Companies in Y Combinator W17 Batch: https://www.ycdb.co/batch/w17

    • Brex: https://www.brex.com/

    • Retool: https://retool.com/

    • Segment: https://segment.com/

    • Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/

    • Whatnot: https://www.whatnot.com/

    • Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com/

    • Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/

    • Rujul Zaparde on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rujulz/

    • Zip: https://ziphq.com/

    • Lu Cheng on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lu-cheng-973b7830/

    • Avoid these tempting startup tar pit ideas: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ij-avoid-these-tempting-startup-tarpit-ideas

    • Airbnb acquires Localmind to create crowdsourced advice about neighborhoods: https://skift.com/2012/12/13/airbnb-acquires-localmind-to-create-crowdsourced-advice-about-neighborhoods/

    • Foursquare: https://foursquare.com/

    • Razorpay: https://razorpay.com/

    • Total Addressable Market: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/total-addressable-market/

    • Lenny Bogdonoff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rememberlenny/

    • Milk Video: https://milkvideo.com/

    • Lessons from working with 600+ YC startups | Gustaf Alströmer (Y Combinator, Airbnb): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-working-with-600-yc-startups-gustaf-alstromer-y-combinator-airbnb/

    • How the most successful B2B startups came up with their original idea: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-most-successful-b2b-startups

    • Collison installation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18400504

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Patrick Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickcollison/

    • John Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbcollison/

    • Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/

    • Grant LaFontaine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantlafontaine/

    • Ryan Petersen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rpetersen/

    • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/

    • YC’s latest Request for Startups: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/ycs-latest-request-for-startups

    • ERPs: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#new-enterprise-resource-planning-software

    • Commercial open source companies: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#commercial-open-source-companies

    • New space companies: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#new-space-companies

    • A way to end cancer: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#a-way-to-end-cancer

    • Spatial computing: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#spatial-computing

    • New defense technology: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#new-defense-technology

    • Bringing manufacturing back to America: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#bring-manufacturing-back-to-america

    • Better enterprise glue: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#better-enterprise-glue

    • Small fine-tuned models, as an alternative to giant generic ones: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#small-finetuned-models-as-an-alternative-to-giant-generic-ones

    • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

    • Sam Altman on X: https://twitter.com/sama

    • Sean Parker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkersean/

    • Owen Van Natta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-van-natta-444a7/

    • Marc Andreessen on X: https://twitter.com/pmarca

    • Picplz 1, Instagram 0 as VC firm Andreessen Horowitz chooses photo app rival: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS2587232395/

    • Gustaf Alstromer—How to Get Users and Grow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ikpoF2GH0

    Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Without/dp/0143118757

    Founding Sales: The Early Stage Go-to-Market Handbook: https://www.amazon.com/Founding-Sales-Go-Market-Handbook-ebook/dp/B08PMK17Z1

    • Founder-led sales | Pete Kazanjy (Founding Sales, Atrium): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/founder-led-sales-pete-kazanjy-founding-sales-atrium/

    The Sopranos on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-sopranos

    The Wire on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-wire

    Columbo on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Columbo-Season-1/dp/B008SA89HA

    • Oura ring: https://ouraring.com/

    • Apple watch: https://www.apple.com/watch/

    • SiPhox: https://siphoxhealth.com/

    • Dalton & Michael on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ-uHSnFig5Nd98Sc9I-kkc0ZWe8peRMC

    • How Future Billionaires Get Sh*t Done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ephzgxgOjR0

    • The Student’s Guide to Becoming a Successful Startup Founder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5KCB2p6SB8

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The GitLab way: Kindness, transparency, and short toes | David DeSanto (CPO)

    The GitLab way: Kindness, transparency, and short toes | David DeSanto (CPO)

    David DeSanto is the chief product officer of GitLab, which is the largest remote-only company in the world. They share many of their team meetings on YouTube, and they’ve grown from being an open-source code management product competing with GitHub to a multi-product platform that covers security, compliance, continuous integration, project management, and deployment tools, many of which are infused with AI magic. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How GitLab operationalizes transparency

    • The philosophy behind recording and sharing team meetings on YouTube

    • Their extensive public employee handbook

    • GitLab’s core value of having “short toes”

    • Challenges and advice for doing remote work well

    • Strategies for ensuring effective communication in a remote work environment

    • GitLab’s breadth-over-depth strategy

    • The company’s unique approach to AI

    • The value of using humor in high-stakes conversations

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-gitlab-way

    Where to find David DeSanto:

    • X: https://twitter.com/david_desanto

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ddesanto/

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@david.the.beard

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) David’s background

    (04:20) Maintaining an epic beard

    (05:29) Why GitLab publicly shares team meetings

    (09:49) The GitLab Handbook

    (11:30) GitLab’s issue tracker

    (14:29) How to successfully build a culture of transparency

    (18:11) Benefits of operating with transparency

    (19:55) The value of building in public

    (21:53) How GitLab implements their core value of kindness

    (25:16) What it means to have “short toes”

    (27:41) Other core values

    (32:16) Common reasons for not fitting in at GitLab

    (34:42) Advice for remote teams

    (42:04) Advice for getting into product

    (43:52) Advice for PMs who are struggling in a remote world

    (48:25) Specific tools that help with remote work

    (53:13) Time zones and remote work

    (57:18) Breadth-over-depth strategy

    (01:04:14) AI at GitLab

    (01:13:11) GitLab’s products and solutions

    (01:14:54) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • GitLab: https://about.gitlab.com/

    • UX Showcase—David DeSanto introduction to UX team and AMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEdsmnVKNj4

    • The GitLab Handbook: https://handbook.gitlab.com/

    • Sid Sijbrandij on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijbrandij/

    • Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

    • GitLab issues: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/issues/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    • GitLab values: https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/values

    • GitLab organizational structure: https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/company/structure

    • GitLab direction: https://about.gitlab.com/direction/

    • Dogfooding: A simple practice to help you build better products: https://medium.com/agileinsider/dogfooding-a-simple-practice-to-help-you-build-better-products-b5954af4d5f7

    • The ultimate guide to adding a PLG motion | Hila Qu (Reforge, GitLab): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-adding-a-plg

    • Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building

    • HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

    Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

    • Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead-crossing-the-chasm-and-dominating-a-market/

    • Open-core model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-core_model

    • GitLab Duo: https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-duo/

    • GitLab Docs: https://docs.gitlab.com/

    • Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/

    • GitLab Acquires UnReview to Expand Its DevOps Platform with Machine Learning Capabilities: https://about.gitlab.com/press/releases/2021-06-02-gitlab-acquires-unreview-machine-learning-capabilities/

    Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less: https://www.amazon.com/Essentialism-Disciplined-Pursuit-Greg-McKeown/dp/0804137382

    • The Mission Critical Core/Context Model for Product Managers: https://secretpmhandbook.com/the-mission-critical-corecontext-model-for-product-managers/

    The Devil’s Hour on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-devils-hour/umc.cmc.3zw4tyzd4lvor5mwhujms63x3

    Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81458416

    • Taylor Swift’s The Eras Tour on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/TAYLOR-SWIFT-ERAS-EXTENDED-VERSION/dp/B0CP99SN2B

    • The STAR method: https://capd.mit.edu/resources/the-star-method-for-behavioral-interviews/

    • Artifact News: https://artifact.news/

    • Superhuman: https://superhuman.com/

    • Arc browser: https://arc.net/

    • An inside look at how The Browser Company builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital)

    A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital)

    Todd Jackson is a Partner at First Round Capital. Before moving into venture capital, he played a crucial role as VP of Product and Design at Dropbox, guiding the company until its IPO in 2018. Prior to Dropbox, Todd led product management for Twitter’s Content and Discovery teams after selling his startup, Cover, to Twitter in 2014. Before Cover, Todd oversaw product development for Facebook’s Newsfeed, Photos, and Groups. He kickstarted his career at Google as an associate product manager and eventually led product for Gmail, witnessing its growth from beta to 200 million users. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why product-market fit (PMF) matters

    • First Round Capital’s four-part PMF framework

    • Level one: Nascent product-market fit

    • Level two: Developing product-market fit

    • Level three: Strong product-market fit

    • Level four: Extreme product-market fit

    • Examples of companies at each level

    • How to know if you’re stuck at a level, and how to get unstuck

    • What to change if you’re stuck: persona, problem, promise, and product

    • The goals and challenges at each stage

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—The modern API for auth and user identity

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    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    Where to find Todd Jackson:

    • X: https://twitter.com/tjack

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddj0/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Todd’s background

    (06:07) First Round Capital’s PMF framework

    (09:07) Why product-market fit is so important

    (11:02) Who can benefit from this framework

    (12:55) The product-market fit method

    (16:54) Broad overview of the framework

    (21:35) Level one: nascent product-market fit

    (33:16) The four P’s

    (39:13) Level two: developing product-market fit

    (49:13) Signs you’re stuck at level two, and what to do

    (55:12) Level three: strong product-market fit

    (01:00:17) Signs you’re stuck at level three, and what to do

    (01:02:22) Level four: extreme product-market fit

    (01:06:55) Rough timelines for each level

    (01:11:18) A quick recap of the framework

    (01:12:15) Diving deeper on the four P’s: what to do if you’re stuck

    (01:13:56) Dollar-driven discovery

    (01:25:11) Apply for the product-market-fit method program

    Referenced:

    • First Round: https://firstround.com/

    • Twitter Acquires Cover: https://www.vox.com/2014/4/7/11625332/twitter-acquires-cover-an-android-mobile-startup

    • Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/

    • Rahul Vohra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulvohra/

    • How Superhuman Built an Engine to Find Product Market Fit: https://review.firstround.com/how-superhuman-built-an-engine-to-find-product-market-fit/

    • How to validate your startup idea: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/validating-your-startup-idea

    • How the most successful B2B startups came up with their original idea: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-most-successful-b2b-startups

    • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket

    • A guide for finding product-market fit in B2B: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/finding-product-market-fit

    • Product-market fit method: http://pmf.firstround.com/

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Plaid: https://plaid.com/

    • Paths to PMF: https://review.firstround.com/series/product-market-fit/

    • WeWork: https://www.wework.com/

    • Casper: https://casper.com/

    • Vanta: https://www.vanta.com/

    • Christina Cacioppo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccacioppo/

    • Ramp: https://ramp.com/

    • Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp-became-the-fastest-growing-saas-startup-of-all-time-geoff-charl/

    • Jack Altman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackealtman/

    • Lattice: https://lattice.com/

    • Zachary Perret on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zperret/

    • Positioning: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/positioning

    • Retool: https://retool.com/

    • David Hsu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dvdhsu/

    • Persona: https://withpersona.com/

    • Rick Song on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rick-song-25198b24/

    • Lloyd Tabb on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloydtabb/

    • Looker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looker_(company)

    • Jason Boehmig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jboehmig/

    • Ironclad: https://ironcladapp.com/

    • Lessons in leadership | Scaling an org and tactical management advice | Jack Altman (Lattice): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZzXqf61mrQ

    • Filip Kaliszan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaliszan/

    • Verkada: https://www.verkada.com/

    • Ali Ghodsi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alighodsi/

    • Databricks: https://www.databricks.com/

    • Stripe Radar: https://stripe.com/radar

    • Stripe Atlas: https://stripe.com/atlas

    • Square Stand: https://squareup.com/shop/hardware/us/en/products/ipad-pos-stand-integrated-card-reader

    • Cash App: https://cash.app/

    • Square Checking: https://squareup.com/us/en/campaign/banking/checking

    • Square Loan: https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5654-get-started-with-square-capital

    • Casey Winters on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywinters/

    • How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

    • Josh Kopelman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkopelman/

    • The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan-ramanujam-monetizing-innovation-simon-kucher/

    • Simon Kucher: https://www.simon-kucher.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe