🔑 Key Takeaways
- Kevan Bakepour shares insights on leading initiatives like Super follows, communities, newsletters, topics, and Twitter Blue at Twitter, using aqua hires and up-and-coming product leaders to break through sacred cows, and lessons learned from building and shutting down Periscope and being fired during paternity leave.
- The speaker met Elon Musk for the first time at Twitter HQ during his takeover, sharing insights on exceptional employees and witnessing Musk's plans for the company.
- Speaker was involved in initiatives like community notes and creator program, left feeling frustrated with functional organizational structure and lack of decisive leadership, but remains optimistic about community notes' development under new GM structure
- Despite unexpected events and instability, finding time for family during a challenging period can provide valuable perspective and renewed energy.
- Alignment from the top is crucial for driving culture change and launching new features in a risk-averse company. Persistence and patience are necessary to create buy-in and make bold bets.
- Identifying deeply ingrained beliefs and gradually changing them is essential for driving product innovation and growth.
- Focus on core product while experimenting with new features, optimize existing experience, and generate excitement for new capabilities to foster innovation and growth.
- Build trust, tell a compelling vision story, and identify misaligned team members. Accelerate change by making small acquihires, bringing in entrepreneurial leaders, and allowing them to drive risky initiatives.
- Create a little silo for the team, ensure resources and freedom, staff roles with the right person, and have a single decision-maker for cultural evolution and shifting priorities.
- Hiring passionate, skilled team members and understanding customer needs are keys to project success. Flexibility and common sense in using frameworks is also important.
- Striking a balance between business outcomes and customer satisfaction is crucial when implementing frameworks like OKRs. Avoiding customer-hostile decisions requires old-fashioned judgment and product taste, and reevaluating the framework when necessary.
- Assess your organization's strategy and be open to change when it inhibits innovation or harms users.
- To build a successful live video streaming platform, focus on retention, provide community features, and asynchronous interactions beyond just live streaming.
- Companies must quickly execute and have a unified product vision to capitalize on emerging consumer trends, or risk losing market share to competitors.
- Avoid internal competition to save time, resources, and deliver a better product experience. Focus on a unified vision and making the right decisions for the customer.
- Understanding how users truly interact with a product can lead to new features and improvements, as Twitter discovered with Periscope and Spaces.
- Exploring new books, shows, and projects can fuel our imagination and teach valuable lessons, even from failures.
- Discovering new AI-powered search engines, reimagined news experiences, and captivating board games can bring joy and make a significant impact on our daily lives. Always be productive and make the most of every opportunity.
- Moments with leaders can shape our work ethic. Sweeping when idle, as taught by Kevan's boss Fred, instills importance of productivity. Scott Belsky's belief in Periscope inspired his team, showcasing the power of leader support.
- Offering and receiving support is crucial for maintaining a healthy and strong partnership
📝 Podcast Summary
From risk-averse to shipping major features - Kevan Bakepour's experience transforming Twitter's product org
Kevan Bakepour, the longest tenured head of product at Twitter, shares his experience of getting Elon Musk up to speed at Twitter and transforming its internal culture from a risk-averse, stagnant product org to one that was shipping major features regularly. During his time at Twitter, Kevan led initiatives like Super follows, communities, newsletters, topics, leads, testing reactions, edge-to-edge photos, Twitter blue, spaces, and live video. He also discusses how they used aqua hires and up-and-coming product leaders to break through sacred cows and change the lack of ambition and creativity within the organization. Listeners will also hear about Kevan's experience being fired from Twitter during his paternity leave and lessons learned from building and shutting down Periscope, as well as building consumer products in general. This episode is filled with unique stories and lessons that have not been shared anywhere else. If you want to build best-in-class products, listen to this podcast to learn how Interpret unifies all customer interactions and connects customer feedback to revenue impact, helping product leaders confidently prioritize things that will move the needle for your business. Additionally, One Schema offers a $1,000 discount for listeners to make spreadsheet import experiences fast and easy for your customers.
An unexpected meeting with Elon Musk at Twitter HQ
During Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter, the speaker had an unexpected meeting with Musk, which was facilitated by Scott and took place at Twitter HQ. This encounter was surreal for the speaker, as it was his first time meeting Musk and he had been previously fired from Twitter. During their conversation, they discussed Twitter's past, present, and future. The speaker shared his perspective on exceptional employees at the company, but it's unclear if Musk was influenced by these suggestions. The meeting was significant because Musk was known to be scheming and planning major changes for the company, and it was intriguing for the speaker to witness this firsthand. The presence of Walter Isaacson, a well-known journalist, added to the unusual experience. Overall, the encounter was a unique and memorable moment during the tumultuous period of Twitter's ownership transition.
Empowering Users and Fostering Community at Twitter
During his time at Twitter, the speaker was involved in several initiatives aimed at empowering users and fostering community, including community notes and the creator program. He left the company feeling hopeful that these projects would continue to grow under new leadership. However, his departure was not amicable. He felt frustrated with the functional organizational structure and the lack of decisive leadership, which he believed was hindering the company's potential. When Parag Monaco took over as CEO, he addressed this issue by shifting the company to a GM structure and promoting the speaker to be the GM of consumer. Despite his reservations, the speaker went on paternity leave feeling optimistic about the changes. These events occurred before Elon Musk became involved with Twitter. The speaker remains passionate about community notes and is pleased to see it continuing to develop.
Unexpected events at Twitter lead to speaker's departure
The speaker's tenure at Twitter was marked by unexpected events, including Elon Musk's joining and leaving the board, and ultimately, the sale of the company. The speaker was let go by the CEO during this period, citing a desire to take the team in a different direction. The speaker was disappointed, as they loved the company and felt their skills were no longer needed. The timing of the departure was particularly confusing, as it occurred during the speaker's paternity leave and amidst the chaos of Twitter's sale. Despite the sudden turn of events, the speaker found solace in spending time with family during their daughter's first year of life, which turned out to be a much-needed break from the drama and instability of working at Twitter as a public company.
Driving culture change in a risk-averse company
Driving culture change in a company, especially one that is risk-averse and not shipping new features frequently, requires alignment from the top. The speaker, who had experience turning around Twitter's product team, shared that her first year in the role was the most difficult due to the political and bureaucratic challenges of building consensus and driving change. However, with persistence and patience, she was able to create alignment and make bold bets, leading to the successful launch of new features like Twitter Blue, Spaces, and Super Follows. The speaker emphasized that without buy-in from the top, culture change efforts can be exhausting and unproductive. Her past experiences, including leading Periscope and working at a public ed tech company, prepared her for the challenges she faced at Twitter and ultimately contributed to her success.
Encouraging innovation at Twitter
Changing a company's culture and increasing ambition and creativity within a product team is a challenging process. Twitter, for instance, had become focused on refining its core product, which helped the company recover from declining user growth but also solidified its reluctance to take risks. The speaker, who joined Twitter after working on a separate product, identified this lack of innovation as a major issue and sought to address it by encouraging the team to think like voracious users of the product and identify their own pain points. However, this meant challenging numerous sacred cows within the organization, such as the reverse chronological timeline and the inability to annotate tweets or control replies. Addressing these cultural hesitations required a deliberate and methodical approach, starting with identifying the most deeply ingrained beliefs and gradually working to change them. This process of cultural transformation can be exhausting and met with resistance, but ultimately, it is essential for driving product innovation and growth.
Fear of change hinders innovation
Fear of change and resistance to experimentation can hinder innovation and growth within an organization. The speaker shared a personal experience of working on a seemingly small feature called "hide replies" at Twitter, which faced opposition due to cultural resistance to new ideas. This reluctance to experiment led to missed opportunities for improving the user experience and increasing engagement. Another key takeaway is the importance of focusing on optimizing the core product while also balancing a portfolio of bets. The speaker emphasized that refining the existing experience and addressing basic building blocks can lead to reliable growth, but it's also crucial to introduce new capabilities to keep up with the evolving needs of users and the market. The speaker also highlighted the significance of having quick wins and generating excitement around new products to build momentum and foster a culture of innovation. Despite the challenges, the speaker remained committed to creating a better balance between optimizing the core and experimenting with new features to drive growth and evolution of the product.
Leadership and Cultural Change
Effective leadership involves building trust, telling a compelling vision story, and identifying and addressing team members who are not aligned with the vision. Accelerating cultural change can be achieved by making small acquihires, bringing in entrepreneurial leaders with a sense of urgency and ambition, and allowing them to drive product initiatives that may be risky or misaligned with the existing product or organization. This approach not only helps to change the culture but also attracts high-performing talent who are aligned with the vision and want to contribute to its success.
Empowering small teams for innovation
Twitter's success in driving innovation and cultural change came from acquiring and empowering small teams led by ambitious entrepreneurs. These teams, given the freedom to build and experiment, led projects such as community notes, Fleets, and Super Follows. However, to ensure their success, Twitter provided them with resources and protected them from being suffocated by the larger organization. This strategy of betting on people and throwing them in the deep end has been effective for Twitter, leading to cultural change and impact. To execute this strategy effectively, companies should create a little silo for the team, ensuring they have the necessary resources and freedom to innovate. Additionally, it's crucial to staff roles with the right person rather than just who is available. In situations of cultural evolution and shifting priorities, having a single decision-maker is essential to avoid disagreements and ensure project direction. These lessons learned the hard way have been instrumental in Twitter's growth and success.
The importance of team belief and obsession for project success
Having a team with a strong belief and obsession for the project they're working on is crucial for its success. This belief and obsession will drive them to work harder, be more creative, and have the necessary ambition and desire to bring the idea to life. It's essential to staff projects with individuals who are not only skilled but also passionate about the idea they're pursuing. This desire and belief will help the team navigate the challenges and obstacles that come with any project, making it more likely to succeed. Additionally, while frameworks like Jobs To Be Done can be helpful in forcing product thinking through the lens of customers and their needs, following them too rigidly can be unhelpful. It's essential to have nuance and common sense when using frameworks and not follow them for the sake of following a process. Jobs To Be Done, as a sole governing principle, may not be useful, but its underlying premise of understanding customers' needs and true alternatives is valuable.
Frameworks like OKRs can limit nuance and lead to customer-hostile decisions if not balanced with customer perspective.
While frameworks like OKRs can help organizations prioritize what to build, they can also limit nuance and potentially lead to decisions that are not in the best interest of customers. For example, Amazon's intentional burial of order details in emails is a customer-hostile practice that may not align with the organization's metrics. Similarly, Twitter's focus on growing DAU led to the implementation of the ranked timeline, which improved metrics but negatively impacted some users' experiences. To avoid these issues, it's essential to strike a balance between what's good for the organization and what's good for the customer. Sometimes, making product decisions requires old-fashioned judgment and product taste, and it's crucial to consider the customer's perspective. A sign that a framework has been implemented too rigidly is when it leads to subjectively bad decisions. In such cases, it's necessary to reevaluate the framework and broaden the approach to ensure a better balance between business outcomes and customer satisfaction.
Twitter's focus on DAUs stifled innovation, but allowing projects to operate like startups led to new opportunities.
When an organization's framework or strategy inhibits the ability to make bold, innovative bets or results in decisions that are detrimental to users, it's essential to reassess and make adjustments. The speaker shares an example of how Twitter's hyper-focus on driving Daily Active Users (DAU) left little room for new initiatives, like Spaces, which could potentially improve the platform in the long term. The team tried different approaches, such as allowing projects to operate like startups, to accommodate new ideas. Another important point is recognizing when features are harmful to users and hindering progress. The speaker encourages being open to change and finding the right balance between adhering to a strategy and accommodating new opportunities. Regarding Periscope, the speaker mentions a story about Kobe Bryant's use of the platform during its beta phase, highlighting its significance as a pioneer in live video streaming.
Addressing retention issues and surrounding live feature with community and asynchronous interactions
The success of a live video streaming platform depends on more than just the live feature itself. The Periscope story highlights the importance of addressing retention issues and surrounding the live feature with other capabilities to foster community and asynchronous interactions. The Periscope app failed due to poor retention, which was masked by growth in new markets but not adequately addressed. Additionally, relying on Twitter's scale and community to make the product grow faster and become more durable did not fully materialize. Today, platforms like Instagram and TikTok have live capabilities but also offer asynchronous features, creating a more durable ecosystem for users.
Twitter missed opportunities by failing to effectively execute and integrate consumer trends
Twitter identified key consumer trends early, such as live streaming and short-form video with Vine, but failed to effectively execute and integrate these trends into their core product. This led to the rise of competitors like Periscope and Facebook Live, who were able to capitalize on these trends by offering more cohesive and comprehensive experiences. The lack of integration and duplication of efforts within Twitter resulted in missed opportunities and a loss of market share. It's a reminder of the importance of quick execution and a unified product vision when it comes to capitalizing on emerging consumer trends.
Internal competition leading to separate products and user experiences
Internal competition between separate teams and products within an organization can lead to wasted time, resources, and a subpar product experience. This was evident in Twitter's handling of Periscope and a separate short form video team, as well as their entry into the premium live video market. Instead of having a unified vision and technical integration, Twitter ended up with two separate products and user experiences. Facebook, on the other hand, executed brilliantly by avoiding such internal competition and maintaining a unified product vision. When it comes to inspiration from other products, it's essential to focus on doing the right thing for the customer. Ideas can be taken in good or poor taste, and it's up to the team to make the right decisions. In Twitter's case, they had been exploring audio as a separate bet before the Periscope team was disbanded. With the right leadership and a unified vision, they could have potentially avoided the internal competition and wasted resources.
Observing user behavior leads to product innovation
Understanding user behavior is crucial when developing consumer products. The team behind Twitter discovered that while they initially believed Periscope was being used primarily for live broadcasting, the majority of users were actually using it for long-form conversations due to its video and audio capabilities. This insight led them to explore new ways of enabling deeper conversations on Twitter, eventually leading to the development of Spaces. This experience taught them the importance of observing user behavior and adapting products to meet their needs, rather than assuming a certain use case. Additionally, being a voracious user of products and staying curious are essential skills for developing successful consumer products.
Exploring new ideas and creations can inspire innovation
Exploring new tools, technologies, and creative works, whether they're successful or not, can inspire and fuel our own imagination and innovation. Kevan, a seasoned entrepreneur and technology enthusiast, emphasizes the importance of trying new things and learning from others' creations. He shared his love for science fiction books and shows, which have significantly influenced his curiosity and motivations in building various projects. Some of his favorite books include works by Neal Stephenson, Patrick Rothfuss, and the science fiction classic "Dune." Kevan also recommended the TV shows "Tokyo Vice," "Devs," and "Succession," as well as the movie "Oppenheimer," which have all left a lasting impact on him. When it comes to interviewing candidates, Kevan suggests asking about their experiences with both successful and failed projects to gauge their self-reflection, willingness to take risks, and ability to learn from setbacks.
Exploring new products and experiences
Discovering new products and experiences, whether they are software or board games, can bring joy and make a significant impact on our daily lives. The speaker shared his admiration for Perplexity, a new AI-powered search engine, and Particle News, a reimagined news experience powered by AI. He also introduced Crokinole, a captivating board game that appeals to all age ranges. The speaker emphasized the importance of well-rounded understanding and appreciation of people and things. He also shared a personal anecdote about his first work experience and the life motto he learned from it, which is to always be productive and make the most of every opportunity.
Lessons from mentors: Always be productive
Small moments with our mentors or leaders can have a profound impact on our work ethic and shape the way we approach productivity and impact. Kevan's boss, Fred, imparted this lesson to him by encouraging him to sweep when he had nothing to do, instilling in him the importance of always being productive. This experience stayed with Kevan and influenced his approach to work. Another interesting fact about a successful leader Kevan has worked with is Scott Belsky. Scott, who oversaw numerous transformations at Adobe, was also an early supporter of Periscope, even before it became a live video platform. He encouraged the team by using the product in its early stages, demonstrating his belief and inspiring them to continue. To connect with Kevan, follow him on Twitter @kavyvz. If you're working on a project and need advice, help, or potential investment, don't hesitate to reach out. Additionally, check out particle.news for more insights.
The importance of support in relationships
Importance of support in relationships. Kevan shared his personal experience of how his wife supported him during a difficult time, emphasizing the significance of having someone to lean on. Lenny added to the conversation by highlighting the importance of communication and understanding in a relationship. They both agreed that support is essential for maintaining a healthy and strong partnership. So, whether you're going through a tough time or just looking to strengthen your relationship, remember that offering and receiving support is key. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to Lenny's Podcast on your favorite podcast app, leaving a review, or visiting Lenny's website for more great content. Thanks for listening!