Logo

    Inside TikTok: Culture, strategy, monetization, and more | Ray Cao (Global Head of Monetization Product Strategy and Operations)

    Aligning teams with clear objectives and key results (OKRs) can lead to memorable and rewarding experiences, with a focus on cross-functional alignment, continuous improvement, and shortened go-to-market and product feedback loops.

    enMarch 07, 2024

    About this Episode

    Ray (Jiayi) Cao is the global head of product strategy and operations for monetization product at TikTok. Prior to TikTok, Ray spent six years at Google helping scale Google Shopping globally. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • TikTok’s internal culture and core values

    • How TikTok’s product team operates

    • How working at TikTok is different from working at Google

    • How TikTok rolls out to new markets

    • TikTok’s core principle of “context, not control”

    • How their sales and product teams work together

    • Lessons (and mistakes) from building TikTok’s early go-to-market team

    • The importance of hiring for quality rather than quantity

    • Insights on being successful on TikTok as a creator, a business, and an advertiser

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—The modern API for auth & user identity

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/inside-tiktok-culture-strategy-monetization-and-more-ray-cao-global-head-of-monetization-prod/

    Where to find Ray Cao:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiayiraycao/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Ray’s background

    (04:55) Cultural differences between Google and TikTok

    (08:24) Fine-tuning the algorithm for different markets

    (12:15) Examples of fine-tuning the algorithm

    (15:11) Core principles and values of TikTok

    (19:34) Hiring at TikTok

    (21:38) Embracing the “always day one” mentality

    (25:09) Collaboration between teams

    (28:38) Amazon’s cultural influence

    (31:14) Setting up the product organization for speed and innovation

    (35:38) Building the go-to-market team

    (40:18) What makes people successful at TikTok

    (43:02) Thoughts on putting in long hours

    (44:40) OKRs and planning at TikTok

    (49:12) Tips for how to be successful on TikTok

    (53:49) Tips for advertising on TikTok

    (01:04:03) Getting started with TikTok Ads

    (01:08:42) Common mistakes to avoid with TikTok advertising

    (01:09:44) Ray’s favorite TikTok account

    (01:10:54) Where to find Ray

    Referenced:

    • TikTok: https://tiktok.com/

    • Google Shopping: https://shopping.google.com/

    • Eugene Wei’s blog: https://www.eugenewei.com/

    • TikTok and the Sorting Hat: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2020/8/3/tiktok-and-the-sorting-hat

    • How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence-elizabeth-stone-cto/

    • Inside OpenAI | Logan Kilpatrick (head of developer relations): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/inside-openai-logan-kilpatrick-head-of-developer-relations/

    • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/

    • Lead with Context not Control: https://www.svpg.com/lead-with-context-not-control/

    • Shuba on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tiktokbrownchick

    • Duolingo on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@duolingo

    • Duolingo leagues: https://duolingo.fandom.com/wiki/League

    • CapCut: https://www.capcut.com/

    • Amanda Talijan (silent baby item reviews) on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda_talijan/video/7321700482018233642

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    🔑 Key Takeaways

    • TikTok's success is driven by its startup culture, which empowers team members to think like business owners and make decisions, and has a valuation of over $80 billion, making it a major advertising platform with nearly $10 billion in revenue.
    • TikTok distinguishes itself from other tech companies through its customer-centric approach, innovative thinking, and global prioritization, enabling it to understand and serve clients while experimenting and optimizing with a flexible product development approach.
    • Adapt to local cultures for global business success, technology can aid but local knowledge is crucial.
    • Algorithms help label content and analyze trends, but human creativity and interpretation are crucial for effective decision making on TikTok. Collaboration and breaking down silos allow for holistic understanding and solution to complex issues.
    • Emphasis on autonomy, high caliber qualities, bigger picture thinking, collaboration, and 'always day one' mentality for success
    • Open communication, flat organizational structure, and close collaboration between teams foster a culture of consensus, keeping everyone informed and contributing to TikTok's energetic and innovative spirit
    • Invite product managers, senior product managers, and engineering leaders to join immersion trips to meet clients, fostering a culture of continuous learning and improvement through face-to-face interaction.
    • Deploy resources and talent in key global markets, adapt team structures to marketing needs, and use tools like OneSkema to save time and effort.
    • Prioritize quality over quantity in hiring, stay engaged with teams and market context, and maintain a flexible approach to leadership.
    • Consider personal goals and preferences before joining or leaving a startup. Embrace hard work and long hours, prioritize career growth, and value transparency and honesty in the hiring and leaving process.
    • Aligning teams with clear objectives and key results (OKRs) can lead to memorable and rewarding experiences, with a focus on cross-functional alignment, continuous improvement, and shortened go-to-market and product feedback loops.
    • Authentic content resonates with TikTok community, adapting to user behavior and platform culture are keys to going viral
    • TikTok offers creators the chance to engage audiences with relatable, personalized content and potential virality. Advertisers must embrace the platform's content-focused approach and test unique tools for success.
    • Instagram: Test creatives less frequently, focus on first impression. TikTok: Experiment with trends, stay up-to-date, seek sales team guidance.
    • TikTok offers startups a full-funnel solution for building brand awareness and driving sales. Create a business account, engage with the community, test ads to optimize campaigns, and invest according to business size.
    • Create organic content, experiment with ads, aim for 10 creatives weekly for a month, broaden targeting, utilize TikTok's tools, consider working with service providers, and expect a learning curve.
    • Observing successful campaigns and learning from creators can lead to improved marketing strategies on TikTok.

    📝 Podcast Summary

    TikTok's Culture and Success: Values, Hiring, and Advertising

    TikTok's success is rooted in its startup culture, which values context over control and a relentless hunger for growth. The company encourages its team members to think like business owners and trusts them to make decisions with the necessary information. TikTok is also one of the most successful businesses in history, with a valuation of over $80 billion, and is quickly becoming a major advertising platform alongside Meta and Google, generating nearly $10 billion in advertising revenue. In this episode, we delve into TikTok's culture, core principles and values, hiring practices, and how to succeed on its ad network. Ray Tao, the global head of monetization product strategy and operations at TikTok, shares insights into how TikTok operates and what we can learn from its success, despite the global debates surrounding the platform. Additionally, this episode is sponsored by WorkOS and Epo, companies offering solutions to add enterprise features and experimentation capabilities to your app or business.

    TikTok's Unique Business Strategies

    TikTok sets itself apart from other tech companies through its customer-centric approach, innovative thinking, and global prioritization. Unlike Google, which prioritizes engineering and technology over market needs, TikTok focuses on understanding and serving its clients, including users and creators. TikTok's flexible product development approach allows for experimentation and optimization, while its global perspective on prioritization enables it to successfully expand into various markets. The algorithm plays a significant role in TikTok's success by figuring out what people in each market want, allowing the company to take a more hands-off approach in some areas. Overall, TikTok's unique business strategies have contributed to its impressive growth and success in diverse markets.

    Understanding local cultures is key to global business success

    When expanding a business globally, it's essential to understand and adapt to local cultures in order to succeed. Technology can be a helpful tool, but it's not a substitute for local knowledge and expertise. For instance, a premium product may not sell well in a market if consumers prioritize durability and reliability over quality. TikTok, as an example, fine-tuned its content strategy for different markets, recognizing that food and technology are popular topics in Japan, while lip syncing and product discovery are popular in the US. Ultimately, to effectively take a product to market in a global scheme, it's necessary to get hands-on experience and truly understand the local culture.

    Human touch essential for TikTok success

    Success on TikTok requires a human touch when working with technology. While algorithms can help label content and analyze trends, human creativity and interpretation are crucial for making effective decisions. The TikTok culture values context and no control, encouraging team members to think beyond their job descriptions and collaborate to solve business problems. This approach breaks down silos and allows for a more holistic understanding and solution to complex issues. By thinking more and collaborating effectively, teams can connect the dots and take action to make meaningful changes. This unique mindset is essential for TikTok's continued growth and success.

    TikTok's success rooted in unique culture: context over control, proactive thinking, collaboration

    TikTok's success is rooted in its unique company culture, which emphasizes context over control, proactive thinking, and collaboration. The team is given autonomy and freedom, but they must possess high caliber qualities such as curiosity, discipline, and the ability to prioritize. The mindset is to always see the bigger picture and work together seamlessly. Another cultural value is the "always day one" mentality, which keeps the team hungry for growth and innovation, despite their market success. Hiring the right people who embody these qualities is crucial for the structure to work effectively.

    TikTok's unique company culture drives success

    TikTok's unique company culture is a significant factor in its success. This culture is characterized by open communication, a flat organizational structure, and close collaboration between teams. The engineering, product, and sales teams work closely together, ensuring that everyone understands the market and the client's feedback. This leads to better decision-making and the creation of products that meet user needs. The company fosters this culture through regular large meetings where everyone reads and discusses documents, encouraging consensus and collaboration at all levels. This structure keeps everyone informed and engaged, contributing to the company's energetic and innovative spirit. The lack of silos and the emphasis on open communication is a big advantage for TikTok as it continues to grow, allowing it to stay nimble and responsive to the market.

    Regular face-to-face communication with clients

    Effective communication and direct interaction with customers are crucial for a company's success. This can be achieved by implementing structures that facilitate regular contact between various teams and clients. For instance, our company invites product managers, senior product managers, and engineering leaders to join immersion trips to meet clients face-to-face, allowing them to understand the challenges users face and gain valuable insights. This approach, inspired by companies like Amazon, fosters a culture of continuous learning and improvement. Additionally, systems like OKR and the memo culture have been adopted from industry peers to ensure teams can collaborate effectively and stay focused on their goals. By constantly learning from the best practices of industry giants and adapting them to our unique context, we can continue to innovate and push for growth.

    Setting up a global product organization for a growing company

    To set up a product organization that moves as fast as a growing company, it's crucial to have a global presence and a flexible team structure. The first step is to deploy resources and talent in key global markets to get closer to clients and understand local markets and competition. The second step is to adapt team structures to marketing needs and growth, rather than sticking to rigid team structures. This flexibility allows teams to consistently iterate and adapt to changing market conditions. The speaker highlighted that this approach is not conventional for a company of their size but is necessary to run faster and innovate more frequently. Additionally, the use of a tool like OneSkema, an embeddable CSV importer for SAS, can save engineering and support resources time and effort by intelligently correcting messy data, allowing customers to easily get started with a product.

    Learning from Hiring Mistakes

    When building a go-to-market team, it's crucial to prioritize quality over quantity and maintain a flexible approach. The speaker learned this the hard way when they tried to hire rapidly to support a growing business, only to discover that compromising hiring standards resulted in a less effective team. Additionally, it's essential for leaders to stay engaged with their teams and the market context to make informed decisions and provide valuable feedback. The speaker's experience taught them that attempting to micromanage or maintain a rigid structure can actually hinder progress. Instead, leaders should find a balance between managing their teams and staying connected to the market to drive success.

    Joining a startup is a lifestyle choice

    Joining a startup or a fast-growing company like TikTok is not just a job, but a lifestyle. While it can offer great opportunities for growth and success, it may not be the right fit for everyone. The most common reason people don't work out is not necessarily because they're not good enough, but rather because they're unable or unwilling to adapt to the unique demands and culture of such companies. It's important for individuals to consider their career goals and personal preferences before making the decision to join or leave a startup. Moreover, the speaker emphasizes the importance of hard work and long hours in such environments, but also acknowledges that it's a personal choice. Employees should be encouraged to prioritize their career goals in partnership with the company, and employers should support their team members in making the best decisions for their individual circumstances. The speaker also values transparency and honesty in the hiring and leaving process, and aims to create a culture where employees feel supported in their career growth, whether that means staying with the company or moving on to new opportunities.

    Embracing Challenges and Aligning Teams with Clear Objectives

    Embracing challenges and putting in maximum effort can lead to the most memorable and rewarding experiences in both personal and professional growth. The speaker emphasized the importance of aligning teams with clear objectives and key results (OKRs) to work towards common goals, with a focus on cross-functional alignment and continuous improvement. TikTok's approach to OKRs involves a clear output but debatable input and a need for reinforcement on alignment. They have an annual planning cycle with frequent iterations and a focus on creating inspiring and immersive experiences for users. The go-to-market and product feedback loops are shortened and faster, requiring teams to be agile and innovative. The speaker encourages learning from other companies and is open to sharing best practices.

    Embrace authenticity and TikTok culture for success

    Being successful on TikTok involves being authentic and embracing the platform's unique culture. For individuals and businesses alike, creating content that resonates with the TikTok community is essential for going viral. The algorithm prioritizes content that everyone wants to see, so continuously bringing new, authentic content and understanding the user behavior on the platform are key to success. A notable example is the singer Shaba, who gained popularity by embracing her minority identity and rapping in a unique way, challenging audience expectations. Overall, being yourself and adapting to the TikTok community can lead to significant growth and engagement.

    Exploring TikTok's unique opportunities for creators and advertisers

    TikTok offers unique opportunities for both content creators and advertisers, but requires a different approach compared to traditional platforms like Facebook and Google. For creators, the platform allows for the use of relatable and personalized content to engage audiences and potentially go viral. For advertisers, embracing the platform's content-focused approach and testing and learning its unique tools and best practices are key to success. TikTok's emerging status as an advertising network presents new opportunities for growth, but requires a shift in mindset and strategy compared to more established options.

    Instagram vs TikTok: Different Approaches to Advertising

    When it comes to advertising on Instagram versus TikTok, the same content may not perform equally well on both platforms. While Instagram relies on a friend graph and targeted reach, TikTok has a wider reach and allows content to be discovered by anyone. This means that for Instagram, it's important to test creatives less frequently and focus on making the most of your first impression with your audience. On the other hand, TikTok requires a more real-time, experimental approach with a focus on staying up-to-date with trends to connect with users. The advertising experience on TikTok is different from Meta or Google, and it may require more guidance from the sales team to achieve success. The key is to be open-minded and willing to try new things, as discovery is a core value of advertising in the digital age. Additionally, paying attention to trends and creating content that resonates with them can help increase engagement and reach on TikTok, as seen with successful brands like Duolingo.

    TikTok: More Than Just Brand Awareness

    TikTok is not just a platform for building brand awareness but also driving actions and sales. The user experience on TikTok can inspire users to take action and make purchases, making it an effective full-funnel solution for advertisers. For startups considering advertising on TikTok, the first step is to create a business account, engage with the community, and experiment with organic content. Once comfortable, testing TikTok's advertising products can help measure impact and optimize campaigns. The investment required depends on the scale of the business, but the potential for driving both awareness and sales makes TikTok a valuable growth channel.

    Building a TikTok presence for business

    Starting out on TikTok for business involves creating an organic presence, learning the platform, and experimenting with ads. It's recommended to aim for at least 10 ad creatives per week for a month to gain a good understanding of the platform's behavior and potential. Begin with broader targeting to get a feel for the platform, and don't limit yourself by focusing too much on remarketing or niche targeting too early on. Utilize TikTok's own tools, such as Keepsake, for automated and customized content creation, or consider working with certified TikTok service providers for more advanced needs. Remember, there's a learning curve, but the results can surprise you.

    Comparing Marketing Strategies on TikTok for Success

    Comparing different marketing strategies, such as those used on TikTok, can lead to significant improvements. Ray Widstrand, a TikTok expert, shared his experience of observing the success of various campaigns and recommended comparing them to see the difference. He also suggested following creators for inspiration and learning new techniques. For those interested in reaching out to Ray or discussing go-to-market challenges, he can be found on LinkedIn. Additionally, he encouraged listeners to provide feedback and recommendations to help expand knowledge and improve strategies. Overall, the conversation highlighted the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in marketing.

    Recent Episodes from Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How Nubank builds a fanatical user base

    • Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth

    • Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score

    • The importance of strategic clarity

    • The role of category design in creating successful products

    • Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”

    • Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Mercury—The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be-fundamentally-different-jag-duggal

    Where to find Jag Duggal:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagduggal/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jag’s background

    (04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements

    (06:01) Nubank’s product development process

    (11:23) Nubank’s values

    (12:16) Building products people love fanatically

    (15:21) The Sean Ellis score

    (21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score

    (25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers

    (28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating

    (30:42) Pushing back effectively

    (34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research

    (37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis

    (42:01) Developing a strategy

    (52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”

    (53:10) Category design

    (57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future

    (01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines

    (01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking

    (01:09:23) AI corner

    (01:12:34) Failure corner

    (01:20:24) Key takeaways

    (01:22:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Nubank: https://nubank.com.br/en/

    • Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/

    • Robinhood: https://www.robinhood.com/

    • SoFi: https://www.sofi.com/

    • Affirm: https://www.affirm.com/

    • Lemonade: https://www.lemfi.com/

    • Bank of America: https://www.bankofamerica.com/

    • Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-achieves-world-record-with-nubolao

    • Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/nu-mexico-carries-out-first-financial-transaction-20-meters-under-the-depth-of-the-sea

    • David Vélez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-v%C3%A9lez-1004875

    • Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crisjunqueira

    • Edward Wible on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamedwardwible

    • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

    • Churrascaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria

    • Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-culture-and-values/

    • Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/working-backwards-press-release-template-example-ian-mcallister/

    • Sean Ellis test: https://productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c

    • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket

    • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

    • Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: https://international.nubank.com.br/company/ultravioleta-nubank-expands-its-premium-card-offer-and-adds-new-features-on-the-products-first-anniversary/

    • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY

    • The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: https://www.fastcompany.com/3006797/innovation-method-behind-swiffer-madness

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard

    Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

    The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

    • How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher

    Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets: https://www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619

    Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • Citi: https://www.citi.com/

    • Santander Bank: https://www.santanderbank.com/

    • Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/

    • Harvard Kennedy School: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/

    • Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-wojcicki-b136a99/

    • Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCDRm_YRFg

    • Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/technology/14DoubleClick.html

    • Real-time bidding: https://support.google.com/authorizedbuyers/answer/6136272

    From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765/

    The Gilded Age on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age

    • Lomi: https://lomi.com/

    • Nubank careers: https://international.nubank.com.br/careers/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    Vikrama Dhiman heads all things product at Gojek, including product management, design, program management, and research, across Indonesia, Singapore and India. He has over 16 years of experience building internet products, consults with Fortune 500 companies, and is among the most well-known and respected product leaders in all of Asia. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The most common traits among successful product managers

    • The 3 W’s framework for PM career growth

    • The Four A’s of leveling up in product management

    • The right way to push back as a PM

    • Common pitfalls that stall PM careers

    • Vikrama’s advice for transitioning into product management

    • Why intent alone is not enough

    Brought to you by:

    Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-pm-skill-development

    Where to find Vikrama Dhiman:

    • X: https://twitter.com/vikramadhiman

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrama/

    • Website: https://www.vikramadhiman.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Vikrama’s background

    (03:56) Three common traits among great PMs

    (07:09) The first W: What you produce

    (15:40) The second W: What you bring to the table

    (18:58) The third W: What’s your operating model?

    (20:36) Three traits that make you a great PM to work with

    (21:49) How to improve the quality and quantity of your outputs

    (23:26) The art of the pushback

    (26:55) Common factors that impede career growth

    (33:39) Vikrama’s personal reflections

    (39:33) Choosing which skill(s) to focus on developing

    (46:28) The ambiguity of the PM role

    (51:47) The 8 axis for PM growth

    (56:57) Contrarian corner: Why intent alone is not enough

    (59:30) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Taxi mafias, cash vaults, and 100% MoM growth: The story behind Southeast Asia’s biggest startup | Kevin Aluwi (Gojek): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom

    • How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-hire-for-measure-and-unlock

    • Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id

    • SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL

    • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

    • Crystal Widjaja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalwidjaja

    • Raditya Wibowo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raditya-wibowo-a0845436/?originalSubdomain=id

    • Sidu Ponnappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidup

    • Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your

    • Kevin Aluwi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/

    • Workday: https://www.workday.com/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    Small Data: The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Data-Clues-Uncover-Trends/dp/1250080681

    Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World: https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X

    Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555

    Miss Congeniality on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Congeniality-Sandra-Bullock/dp/B002R5HQDK

    Schitt’s Creek on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Schitts-Creek/dp/B083LDRW9F

    • DramaBox: https://www.dramaboxapp.com/

    Am I Overthinking This?: Over-Answering Life’s Questions in 101 Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Am-Overthinking-This-Over-answering-questions/dp/1452175861/

    Crazy Rich Asians on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Rich-Asians-Constance-Wu/dp/B07JGJFXBF

    • 9 Best Hawker Centers in Singapore—and What to Eat There: https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-hawker-centers-in-singapore-and-what-to-eat-there

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers)

    Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers)

    Hamilton Helmer is one of the world’s leading experts on business strategy and the author of the seminal book 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy, which provides a comprehensive framework for understanding what it really takes to achieve and sustain a competitive advantage. With more than three decades of experience in the strategic consulting industry, Hamilton has advised over 200 companies—from burgeoning startups to Fortune 100 giants—on how to identify, build, and leverage their unique strategic powers. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Potential sources of power that startups should develop from an early stage

    • Common misconceptions among companies about the types of power they possess

    • How power relates to strategy

    • The difference between a moat and a power

    • Practical strategies for non-leaders to leverage insights about power and strategy in their work

    • AI’s impact on competitive advantages and barriers to entry

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

    Where to find Hamilton Helmer:

    • X: https://twitter.com/hamiltonhelmer

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamilton-helmer-42983/

    • Website: https://7powers.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Hamilton’s background

    (04:08) When power becomes important

    (08:24) How strategy relates to power

    (12:09) How power informs strategy

    (14:46) The sequence of powers

    (21:13) Common misconceptions

    (24:39) Network effects vs. network economies

    (26:58) Uber’s success

    (29:16) Moats vs. powers

    (31:12) Strategies for non-leaders to leverage power and strategy

    (37:51) Advice on how to become a strategic thinker

    (39:27) AI’s impact on the seven powers

    (45:43) Why moving fast is not a power

    (50:24) Three things that create value in a company

    (51:16) The debt trajectory of the U.S.

    (56:35) Optimism for the future

    (59:25) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

    • John von Neumann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

    • Pearl Harbor: https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/pearl-harbor

    • Where the Japanese Went Wrong at Pearl Harbor: https://pearlharbor.org/blog/where-japanese-went-wrong-pearl-harbor/

    • The ‘7 Powers’ of business success—from one of Netflix’s early investors: https://www.qualitycompounders.com.au/post/the-7-powers-of-business-success-from-one-of-netflix-s-early-investors

    • 7 Powers: Foundations of Business Strategy (Key Takeaways): https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-powers-foundations-business-strategy-key-takeaways-nikita-maloo/

    • Strategy Capital: https://strategycapital.com/

    • Warren Buffett: https://www.forbes.com/profile/warren-buffett/

    • Charlie Munger: https://www.forbes.com/profile/charles-munger/

    • Poor Charlie’s Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger: https://www.stripe.press/poor-charlies-almanack

    • Bill Gates reveals why Warren Buffett was an invaluable source of support during the stormiest period of his career: https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-interview-warren-buffett-support-microsoft-antitrust-lawsuit-2019-6

    •  Billionaire Warren Buffett’s Secret Love Affair With Castles, Revealed: https://www.thestreet.com/opinion/billionaire-warren-buffett-s-secret-love-affair-with-castles-revealed-14290973

    • Netflix didn’t kill Blockbuster—how Netflix almost lost the movie rental wars: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/22/how-netflix-almost-lost-the-movie-rental-wars-to-blockbuster.html

    • Michael Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorporter/

    • What Is Strategy?: https://hbr.org/1996/11/what-is-strategy

    • TSMC: https://www.tsmc.com/english

    • Toyota Production System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System

    • America will be left with ‘severe, irreversible scars’ if national debt goes unchecked. Now, a blockbuster report warns the bill is higher than believed, hitting $141T by 2054: https://fortune.com/2024/04/01/america-social-economic-scars-us-debt-gomes-price/

    • Ben S. Bernanke: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/people/ben-s-bernanke

    • Forty-four of 50 U.S. states worsen inequality with ‘upside-down’ taxes: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/states-wealth-inequality-taxes

    • Joseph A. Schumpeter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schumpeter

    Theory of Economic Development: https://www.amazon.com/Theory-Economic-Development-Science-Classics/dp/0878556982

    The Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Reality-Complete-Guide-Universe/dp/0679776311

    The Gene: An Intimate History: https://www.amazon.com/Gene-Intimate-History-Siddhartha-Mukherjee/dp/147673352X

    American Fiction on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/American-Fiction-Jeffrey-Wright/dp/B0CQKR72NX

    • Farahan Sarouk rugs: https://nazmiyalantiquerugs.com/persian-sarouk-farahan-rugs/

    • Rory Sutherland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland

    • Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/

    • Clint Eastwood quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/clint_eastwood_168005

    • Winston Churchill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

    Michelangelo, God’s Architect: The Story of His Final Years and Greatest Masterpiece: https://www.amazon.com/Michelangelo-Gods-Architect-Greatest-Masterpiece/dp/0691195498

    The Last Judgment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Judgment_(Michelangelo)

    • Theodore Roosevelt: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/theodore-roosevelt/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”, former pro poker player)

    This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”, former pro poker player)

    Annie Duke is a former professional poker player, a decision-making expert, and a special partner at First Round Capital. She is the author of Thinking in Bets (a national bestseller) and Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away and the co-founder of the Alliance for Decision Education, a nonprofit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. In our conversation, we cover:

    • What Annie learned from the late Daniel Kahneman

    • The power of pre-mortems and “kill criteria”

    • The relationship between money and happiness

    • The power of “mental time travel”

    • The nominal group technique for better decision quality

    • How First Round Capital improved their decision-making process

    • Many tactical decision-making frameworks

    Brought to you by:

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    UserTesting—Human understanding. Human experiences.

    LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-better-decisions-annie-duke

    Where to find Annie Duke:

    • X: https://twitter.com/AnnieDuke

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-duke/

    • Website: https://www.annieduke.com/

    • Substack: https://www.annieduke.com/substack/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Annie’s background

    (03:53) Lessons from Daniel Kahneman: humility, curiosity, and open-mindedness

    (09:15) The importance of unconditional love in parenting

    (15:15) Mental time travel and “nevertheless”

    (20:06) The extent of improvement possible in decision-making 

    (24:54) Independent brainstorming for better decisions

    (35:36) Making sure people feel heard

    (42:41) The “3Ds” framework to make better decisions

    (44:49) Decision quality

    (55:46) Improving decision-making at First Round Capital

    (01:05:05) Using pre-mortems and kill criteria

    (01:10:15) Making explicit what’s implicit

    (01:10:55) The challenges of quitting and knowing when to walk away

    (01:19:23) Where to find Annie

    Referenced:

    • Daniel Kahneman, Who Plumbed the Psychology of Economics, Dies at 90: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/daniel-kahneman-dead.html

    • Adversarial collaboration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_collaboration

    • Does more money correlate with greater happiness?: https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/does-more-money-correlate-greater-happiness-Penn-Princeton-research#

    • Income and emotional well-being: A conflict resolved: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36857342/

    • Strategic decisions: When can you trust your gut?: https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/strategic-decisions-when-can-you-trust-your-gut

    • Cass Sunstein on X: https://twitter.com/CassSunstein

    • Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • First Round Capital: https://firstround.com/

    • Brett Berson on X: https://twitter.com/brettberson

    • Renegade Partners: https://www.renegadepartners.com/

    • Renata Quintini on X: https://twitter.com/rquintini

    • Roseanne Wincek on X: https://twitter.com/imthemusic

    • Josh Kopelman on X: https://twitter.com/joshk

    • Bill Trenchard on X: https://twitter.com/btrenchard

    • Linnea Gandhi on X: https://twitter.com/linneagandhi

    • Maurice Schweitzer on X: https://twitter.com/me_schweitzer

    • Problems with premortems: https://sjdm.org/presentations/2021-Poster-Gandhi-Linnea-debiasing-premortem-selfserving~.pdf

    • Create a Solid Plan on How to Fail Big This Year: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2020/02/07/create-a-solid-plan-on-how-to-fail-big-this-year/

    Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away: https://www.amazon.com/Quit-Power-Knowing-When-Walk/dp/0593422996/

    • Richard Thaler on X: https://twitter.com/R_Thaler

    • Stewart Butterfield on X: https://twitter.com/stewart

    • Glitch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch_(video_game)

    • How the Founder of Slack & Flickr Turned Colossal Failures into Billion-Dollar Companies: https://medium.com/swlh/how-the-founder-of-slack-flickr-turned-failures-into-million-and-billion-dollar-companies-7bcaf0d35d66

    • The Most Fascinating Profile You’ll Ever Read About a Guy and His Boring Startup: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/the-most-fascinating-profile-youll-ever-read-about-a-guy-and-his-boring-startup/

    • The Alliance for Decision Education: https://alliancefordecisioneducation.org/

    • Make Better Decisions course on Maven: https://maven.com/annie-duke/make-better-decisions

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour

    Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour

    Kayvon Beykpour was the longest-serving head of product at Twitter and was GM of Twitter’s consumer division until the platform was acquired by Elon Musk. He originally joined Twitter in 2015 through the acquisition of his company, Periscope, the largest live video streaming platform at the time. Periscope pioneered technology that inspired Instagram Live, TikTok Live, Facebook Live, and other social networks’ expansion into video streaming. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The story of being let go from Twitter after Elon’s acquisition

    • How he turned Twitter’s stagnant culture around

    • Kayvon’s thoughts on the limitations of frameworks like Jobs to Be Done

    • Why Periscope failed

    • Advice for building consumer products

    • When to copy, when to innovate

    Brought to you by:

    Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Heap—Cross-platform product analytics that convert, engage, and retain customers

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/twitters-former-head-of-product-kayvon-beykpour

    Where to find Kayvon Beykpour:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kayvz

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kayvz/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kayvon’s background

    (04:31) Getting Elon up to speed at Twitter

    (11:34) The story of being let go from Twitter after Elon’s acquisition

    (21:09) Changing the product culture at Twitter

    (29:44) Building the “hide replies” feature

    (32:02) Sacred crows, taking bold bets, and reigniting growth

    (34:28) Aquihires and their impact

    (42:40) Tips for successful acquisitions and staffing

    (47:00) The limitations of frameworks like JTBD

    (53:20) Signs you’ve gone too far with a framework

    (57:44) Lessons from building Periscope

    (01:00:41) Reasons why Periscope failed

    (01:07:24) The challenges of implementing video at Twitter

    (01:12:05) Copying ideas in good taste

    (01:17:58) How to get better at building consumer products

    (01:19:51) What Kayvon is building

    (01:20:31) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/

    • What it’s like to sell your startup for ~$120 million before it’s even launched: Meet Twitter’s new prized possession, Periscope: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-periscope-and-why-twitter-bought-it-2015-3

    • Walter Isaacson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/walter-isaacson-b8b81520/

    • Elon Musk on X: https://twitter.com/elonmusk

    • Parag Agrawal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parag-agrawal-5a14742a/

    • Jack Dorsey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-dorsey-a43b07242/

    • Blackboard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Inc.

    • Keith Coleman on X: https://twitter.com/kcoleman

    • Esther Crawford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esthercrawford/

    • Twitter acquires Chroma Labs: https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/twitter-acquires-chroma-labs-story-aqvcRPAoYXqXJuAbefA6cN.html

    • John Barnett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarnettt/

    • Jobs to Be Done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

    • Hot takes and techno-optimism from tech’s top power couple: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

    • Nike Is Unveiling the Kobe 11 Tomorrow Using Periscope: https://sneakernews.com/2015/12/13/nike-is-unveiling-the-kobe-11-tomorrow-using-periscope/

    • Chris Sacca’s website: https://chrissacca.com/

    • Facebook Live: https://www.facebook.com/formedia/tools/facebook-live

    • Kevin Hart on X: https://twitter.com/KevinHart4real

    • Clubhouse: https://www.clubhouse.com/

    • Vine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_(service)

    • Paul Davison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davison/

    • Rohan Seth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohanseth/

    Cryptonomicon: https://www.amazon.com/Cryptonomicon-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0380788624

    Reamde: https://www.amazon.com/Reamde-Novel-Neal-Stephenson-ebook/dp/B004XVN0WW

    The Name of the Wind: https://www.amazon.com/Name-Wind-Kingkiller-Chronicle-Book-ebook/dp/B0010SKUYM

    Star Trek official site: https://www.startrek.com/

    Dune: part 2: https://www.dunemovie.com/

    Oppenheimer on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-movies/oppenheimer

    • Tokyo Vice on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/tokyo-vice/e7d93204-7f98-4e62-ab52-6c1da053f942

    Devs on Hulu: https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/devs

    • Nick Offerman on X: https://twitter.com/nick_offerman

    3 Body Problem on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81024821

    • Perplexity AI: https://www.perplexity.ai/

    • Particle: https://www.particle.news/

    • Crokinole board game: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/521/crokinole

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

    How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

    Carole Robin spent over 20 years teaching the Stanford Graduate School of Business course Interpersonal Dynamics, affectionately known as “Touchy Feely.” After leaving Stanford, she founded a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which applies the Touchy Feely principles to help Silicon Valley executives build their leadership and interpersonal skills. Carole co-authored the popular book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, which shares key insights from her decades of teaching these courses. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The benefits of building robust relationships, in life and work

    • The 15% rule, and how it will help you build better relationships

    • The power of vulnerability

    • Examples of how to practice vulnerability

    • Why mental models you build early in life hold you back later

    • The “three realities” and “the net”

    • The art of inquiry

    • Practical tips for avoiding defensiveness when getting feedback

    • The impact of long Covid on Carole’s life

    Brought to you by:

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

    The a16z Podcast—Featuring conversations with the founders and technologists shaping our future

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    Where to find Carole Robin:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carole-robin/

    • Email: carolerobinllc@gmail.com

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Carole’s background

    (05:17) The importance of building robust relationships

    (10:20) The “Touchy Feely” course at Stanford

    (13:29) An example of the in-class experience

    (17:19) Leaders in Tech: developing interpersonal competence

    (21:36) Progressive disclosure and the 15% rule

    (24:28) Appropriate disclosure

    (26:52) The power of vulnerability

    (34:57) Admitting mistakes and sharing feelings

    (37:08) Understanding mental models

    (42:57) The “three realities” framework

    (53:52) The power of feedback and personal change

    (58:47) The art of inquiry

    (01:03:27) How to get better at giving feedback

    (01:07:47) Exercises and continued learning

    (01:10:49) “Advice hinders relationships”

    (01:16:49) Failure corner: AFOG

    (01:20:30) Takeaways

    (01:21:51) Lessons from long Covid

    Referenced:

    • How to Build Better Relationships: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/how-build-better-relationships

    Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues-ebook/dp/B0894279WZ

    • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

    • Leaders in Tech Fellows: https://leadersintech.org/learnaboutfellows

    • Steve Jobs: https://www.forbes.com/profile/steve-jobs/

    • Sheryl Sandberg on X: https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg

    • Ursula Burns: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ursula-burns/

    • Application for Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/programs-and-applications

    • Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development and Scaffolding Theory: https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-development.html

    • The Best Leaders Aren’t Afraid to Be Vulnerable: https://hbr.org/2022/07/the-best-leaders-arent-afraid-of-being-vulnerable

    • The Surprising Benefits of Admitting Mistakes: 5 Ways to Build Intellectual Humility: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2021/12/29/the-surprising-benefits-of-admitting-mistakes-5-ways-to-build-intellectual-humility/

    • How to Build Conflict Skills—The Pinch/Crunch Model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahart/2023/12/15/how-to-build-conflict-skills-the-pinchcrunch-model/

    • Slides mentioned (The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines): https://pen-name.notion.site/Carole-Robin-4-25-5d47d38a620e4636966d31f4bf3c7d00?pvs=4

    Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

    • Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

    • Long COVID: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2

    • Leadership, acceptance, and self-management: my journey with long COVID: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leadership-acceptance-self-management-my-journey-long-carole-robin/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma)

    Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma)

    Mihika Kapoor is a design-engineer-PM hybrid at Figma, where she was an early PM on FigJam and is now spearheading development on a new product at the company that’s coming out this June. She’s known as the go-to person at Figma for leading new 0-to-1 products, and, as you’ll hear in our conversation, beloved by everyone she works with. Her background includes founding Design Nation, a national nonprofit focused on democratizing design education for undergraduates; spearheading product launches at Meta; and community building within the NYC AI startup scene. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How to effectively take ideas from 0 to 1 at larger companies

    • How to craft a compelling vision

    • The importance of vulnerability and feedback

    • The role of intuition and product sense in making decisions

    • How to practically communicate your vision

    • How to balance collaboration and strong opinions

    • Advice for building a strong team culture

    • Pivoting with grace and enthusiasm

    • The current AI revolution and its impact on PM

    Brought to you by:

    Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

    Lenny’s Talent Team—Hire the best product people. Find the best product gigs

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    Where to find Mihika Kapoor:

    • X: https://twitter.com/mihikapoor

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Mihika’s background

    (04:29) Core attributes of great product managers

    (07:34) Crafting a compelling vision

    (12:12) The vision behind FigJam 

    (18:25) Delivering a vision without design or engineering skills

    (21:52) Creating momentum

    (26:36) The importance of strong conviction

    (27:45) Direct communication

    (32:48) Building hype

    (42:20) Immersing yourself in user insights

    (47:16) Operationalizing user insights  

    (50:33) Caring deeply about what you build

    (54:01) Finding passion in your work

    (57:00) Building a strong culture

    (01:07:07) Pivoting with grace and enthusiasm

    (01:11:48) Design Nation

    (01:13:15) Mihika’s weaknesses

    (01:16:07) Building new products at larger companies

    (01:20:50) Coming up with a great idea

    (01:22:49) The key to going from 0 to 1

    (01:26:47) Spreading the idea across the company

    (01:29:15) Closing thoughts

    (01:32:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Figma: https://www.figma.com/

    • Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/

    The Medici Effect: What Elephants and Epidemics Can Teach Us About Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Medici-Effect-Preface-Discussion-Guide/dp/1633692949

    • FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

    • Cognition: https://www.cognition-labs.com/

    • Devin: https://www.cognition-labs.com/introducing-devin

    • David Hoang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhoang2/

    • Replit: https://replit.com/

    • The Making of Maker Week at Figma: https://www.figma.com/blog/the-making-of-maker-week/

    • Yuhki Yamashita on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuhki/

    • Jeff Bezos’ Simple Decision-Making Framework Will Give You Clarity, Conviction, and Courage: https://medium.com/illumination/jeff-bezos-simple-decision-making-framework-will-give-you-clarity-conviction-and-courage-adf8d0183625

    • Alice Ching on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliceching/

    • Karl Jiang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-jiang-4a07424/

    • Kris Rasmussen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristopherrasmussen/

    • Config: https://config.figma.com/

    • Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/

    • Asana: https://asana.com/

    • Julie Zhuo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-zhuo/

    • StrengthsFinder test: https://www.gyfted.me/personality-quiz/strengthsfinder-test-free

    • Dylan Field on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/

    • Vishal Shah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vishalnshah/

    Design Disruptors: https://www.invisionapp.com/films/design-disruptors

    • Daniel Burka on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dburka/

    • Jamie Myrold on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiemyrold/

    • Design Nation: https://dn.businesstoday.org/

    • Stuart Weitzman on X: https://twitter.com/StuartWeitzman

    • Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/

    • Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career-nikhyl-singhal-meta-google/

    • Jambot: https://www.figma.com/community/widget/1274481464484630971/jambot

    • Hestia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hestia

    Harry Potter series: https://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Paperback-Box-Books/dp/0545162076

    Pachinko: https://www.amazon.com/Pachinko-National-Book-Award-Finalist/dp/1455563927/

    Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration: https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Expanded-Overcoming-Inspiration/dp/0593594649

    The Overstory: https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039335668X

    Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx

    Dune on Max: https://www.max.com/movies/dune/e7dc7b3a-a494-4ef1-8107-f4308aa6bbf7

    Dune: Part 2: https://www.dunemovie.com/

    • Arc browser: https://arc.net/

    • Pika: https://pika.art/home

    • The power of recognition: Why you should celebrate your employees | Josh Miller: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-power-of-recognition-why-you-should-celebrate-your-employees-josh-miller/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director)

    Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director)

    Dalton Caldwell is Managing Director and Group Partner at Y Combinator. Prior to YC, he was the co-founder and CEO of imeem (acquired by MySpace in 2009) and the co-founder and CEO of App.net. During his time at YC, he’s advised more than 35 YC unicorns, including DoorDash, Amplitude, Webflow, and Retool, and has worked across 21 different YC batches. He’s also racked up more than 6,500 office hours with founders. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why founders need to adopt the mindset “Just don’t die”

    • The most common reason startups fail

    • When to pivot, and characteristics of a good pivot

    • The concept of “tar pit ideas” and examples of bad startup ideas

    • Why investors say no to startups

    • The importance of market size in investment decisions

    • The pitfalls of founders over-delegating

    • Effective ways to talk to customers

    • 20 ideas Dalton is looking to fund

    Brought to you by:

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-1000-yc-startups

    Where to find Dalton Caldwell:

    • X: https://twitter.com/daltonc

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daltoncaldwell/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Dalton’s background

    (04:41) The value of simple advice

    (07:04) Dalton’s advice: “Just don’t die”

    (08:39) Knowing when to stop

    (11:45) Deciding to pivot

    (14:26) Characteristics of a good pivot

    (17:53) Knowing when to pivot

    (19:03) Zip’s journey and finding a market

    (21:22) Why Dalton says to “Move towards the mountains and the desert”

    (23:45) Tar pit ideas

    (26:49) Understanding why investors say no

    (29:14) The importance of market size

    (32:16) Avoiding over-delegation and hiring senior people too early

    (36:43) Why startups fail

    (40:30) Effectively talking to customers

    (45:17) Examples of startups hustling to talk to customers

    (48:01) Patterns of successful startups

    (52:05) YC’s Request for Startups

    (55:37) Early days of Silicon Valley

    (01:05:33) Contrarian corner: growth hacking for early startups

    (01:09:28) Failure corner

    (01:11:15) Closing thoughts

    (01:12:22) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

    • Tiger Woods’s website: https://tigerwoods.com/

    • Co-Founder Mistakes That Kill Companies & How to Avoid Them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfjs_eEEzs

    • Daniel Alberson’s LinkedIn post about Y Combinator: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alberson_i-left-my-dream-job-as-a-product-manager-activity-7089677882431533056-jJ9H

    • Companies in Y Combinator W17 Batch: https://www.ycdb.co/batch/w17

    • Brex: https://www.brex.com/

    • Retool: https://retool.com/

    • Segment: https://segment.com/

    • Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/

    • Whatnot: https://www.whatnot.com/

    • Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com/

    • Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/

    • Rujul Zaparde on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rujulz/

    • Zip: https://ziphq.com/

    • Lu Cheng on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lu-cheng-973b7830/

    • Avoid these tempting startup tar pit ideas: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ij-avoid-these-tempting-startup-tarpit-ideas

    • Airbnb acquires Localmind to create crowdsourced advice about neighborhoods: https://skift.com/2012/12/13/airbnb-acquires-localmind-to-create-crowdsourced-advice-about-neighborhoods/

    • Foursquare: https://foursquare.com/

    • Razorpay: https://razorpay.com/

    • Total Addressable Market: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/total-addressable-market/

    • Lenny Bogdonoff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rememberlenny/

    • Milk Video: https://milkvideo.com/

    • Lessons from working with 600+ YC startups | Gustaf Alströmer (Y Combinator, Airbnb): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-working-with-600-yc-startups-gustaf-alstromer-y-combinator-airbnb/

    • How the most successful B2B startups came up with their original idea: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-most-successful-b2b-startups

    • Collison installation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18400504

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Patrick Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickcollison/

    • John Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbcollison/

    • Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/

    • Grant LaFontaine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantlafontaine/

    • Ryan Petersen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rpetersen/

    • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/

    • YC’s latest Request for Startups: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/ycs-latest-request-for-startups

    • ERPs: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#new-enterprise-resource-planning-software

    • Commercial open source companies: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#commercial-open-source-companies

    • New space companies: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#new-space-companies

    • A way to end cancer: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#a-way-to-end-cancer

    • Spatial computing: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#spatial-computing

    • New defense technology: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#new-defense-technology

    • Bringing manufacturing back to America: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#bring-manufacturing-back-to-america

    • Better enterprise glue: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#better-enterprise-glue

    • Small fine-tuned models, as an alternative to giant generic ones: https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs#small-finetuned-models-as-an-alternative-to-giant-generic-ones

    • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

    • Sam Altman on X: https://twitter.com/sama

    • Sean Parker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkersean/

    • Owen Van Natta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-van-natta-444a7/

    • Marc Andreessen on X: https://twitter.com/pmarca

    • Picplz 1, Instagram 0 as VC firm Andreessen Horowitz chooses photo app rival: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS2587232395/

    • Gustaf Alstromer—How to Get Users and Grow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ikpoF2GH0

    Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Without/dp/0143118757

    Founding Sales: The Early Stage Go-to-Market Handbook: https://www.amazon.com/Founding-Sales-Go-Market-Handbook-ebook/dp/B08PMK17Z1

    • Founder-led sales | Pete Kazanjy (Founding Sales, Atrium): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/founder-led-sales-pete-kazanjy-founding-sales-atrium/

    The Sopranos on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-sopranos

    The Wire on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-wire

    Columbo on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Columbo-Season-1/dp/B008SA89HA

    • Oura ring: https://ouraring.com/

    • Apple watch: https://www.apple.com/watch/

    • SiPhox: https://siphoxhealth.com/

    • Dalton & Michael on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ-uHSnFig5Nd98Sc9I-kkc0ZWe8peRMC

    • How Future Billionaires Get Sh*t Done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ephzgxgOjR0

    • The Student’s Guide to Becoming a Successful Startup Founder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5KCB2p6SB8

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The GitLab way: Kindness, transparency, and short toes | David DeSanto (CPO)

    The GitLab way: Kindness, transparency, and short toes | David DeSanto (CPO)

    David DeSanto is the chief product officer of GitLab, which is the largest remote-only company in the world. They share many of their team meetings on YouTube, and they’ve grown from being an open-source code management product competing with GitHub to a multi-product platform that covers security, compliance, continuous integration, project management, and deployment tools, many of which are infused with AI magic. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How GitLab operationalizes transparency

    • The philosophy behind recording and sharing team meetings on YouTube

    • Their extensive public employee handbook

    • GitLab’s core value of having “short toes”

    • Challenges and advice for doing remote work well

    • Strategies for ensuring effective communication in a remote work environment

    • GitLab’s breadth-over-depth strategy

    • The company’s unique approach to AI

    • The value of using humor in high-stakes conversations

    Brought to you by:

    Orb—The flexible billing engine for modern pricing

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-gitlab-way

    Where to find David DeSanto:

    • X: https://twitter.com/david_desanto

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ddesanto/

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@david.the.beard

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) David’s background

    (04:20) Maintaining an epic beard

    (05:29) Why GitLab publicly shares team meetings

    (09:49) The GitLab Handbook

    (11:30) GitLab’s issue tracker

    (14:29) How to successfully build a culture of transparency

    (18:11) Benefits of operating with transparency

    (19:55) The value of building in public

    (21:53) How GitLab implements their core value of kindness

    (25:16) What it means to have “short toes”

    (27:41) Other core values

    (32:16) Common reasons for not fitting in at GitLab

    (34:42) Advice for remote teams

    (42:04) Advice for getting into product

    (43:52) Advice for PMs who are struggling in a remote world

    (48:25) Specific tools that help with remote work

    (53:13) Time zones and remote work

    (57:18) Breadth-over-depth strategy

    (01:04:14) AI at GitLab

    (01:13:11) GitLab’s products and solutions

    (01:14:54) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • GitLab: https://about.gitlab.com/

    • UX Showcase—David DeSanto introduction to UX team and AMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEdsmnVKNj4

    • The GitLab Handbook: https://handbook.gitlab.com/

    • Sid Sijbrandij on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijbrandij/

    • Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

    • GitLab issues: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/issues/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    • GitLab values: https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/values

    • GitLab organizational structure: https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/company/structure

    • GitLab direction: https://about.gitlab.com/direction/

    • Dogfooding: A simple practice to help you build better products: https://medium.com/agileinsider/dogfooding-a-simple-practice-to-help-you-build-better-products-b5954af4d5f7

    • The ultimate guide to adding a PLG motion | Hila Qu (Reforge, GitLab): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-adding-a-plg

    • Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building

    • HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

    Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

    • Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead-crossing-the-chasm-and-dominating-a-market/

    • Open-core model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-core_model

    • GitLab Duo: https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-duo/

    • GitLab Docs: https://docs.gitlab.com/

    • Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/

    • GitLab Acquires UnReview to Expand Its DevOps Platform with Machine Learning Capabilities: https://about.gitlab.com/press/releases/2021-06-02-gitlab-acquires-unreview-machine-learning-capabilities/

    Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less: https://www.amazon.com/Essentialism-Disciplined-Pursuit-Greg-McKeown/dp/0804137382

    • The Mission Critical Core/Context Model for Product Managers: https://secretpmhandbook.com/the-mission-critical-corecontext-model-for-product-managers/

    The Devil’s Hour on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-devils-hour/umc.cmc.3zw4tyzd4lvor5mwhujms63x3

    Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81458416

    • Taylor Swift’s The Eras Tour on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/TAYLOR-SWIFT-ERAS-EXTENDED-VERSION/dp/B0CP99SN2B

    • The STAR method: https://capd.mit.edu/resources/the-star-method-for-behavioral-interviews/

    • Artifact News: https://artifact.news/

    • Superhuman: https://superhuman.com/

    • Arc browser: https://arc.net/

    • An inside look at how The Browser Company builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital)

    A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital)

    Todd Jackson is a Partner at First Round Capital. Before moving into venture capital, he played a crucial role as VP of Product and Design at Dropbox, guiding the company until its IPO in 2018. Prior to Dropbox, Todd led product management for Twitter’s Content and Discovery teams after selling his startup, Cover, to Twitter in 2014. Before Cover, Todd oversaw product development for Facebook’s Newsfeed, Photos, and Groups. He kickstarted his career at Google as an associate product manager and eventually led product for Gmail, witnessing its growth from beta to 200 million users. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why product-market fit (PMF) matters

    • First Round Capital’s four-part PMF framework

    • Level one: Nascent product-market fit

    • Level two: Developing product-market fit

    • Level three: Strong product-market fit

    • Level four: Extreme product-market fit

    • Examples of companies at each level

    • How to know if you’re stuck at a level, and how to get unstuck

    • What to change if you’re stuck: persona, problem, promise, and product

    • The goals and challenges at each stage

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—The modern API for auth and user identity

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    Where to find Todd Jackson:

    • X: https://twitter.com/tjack

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddj0/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Todd’s background

    (06:07) First Round Capital’s PMF framework

    (09:07) Why product-market fit is so important

    (11:02) Who can benefit from this framework

    (12:55) The product-market fit method

    (16:54) Broad overview of the framework

    (21:35) Level one: nascent product-market fit

    (33:16) The four P’s

    (39:13) Level two: developing product-market fit

    (49:13) Signs you’re stuck at level two, and what to do

    (55:12) Level three: strong product-market fit

    (01:00:17) Signs you’re stuck at level three, and what to do

    (01:02:22) Level four: extreme product-market fit

    (01:06:55) Rough timelines for each level

    (01:11:18) A quick recap of the framework

    (01:12:15) Diving deeper on the four P’s: what to do if you’re stuck

    (01:13:56) Dollar-driven discovery

    (01:25:11) Apply for the product-market-fit method program

    Referenced:

    • First Round: https://firstround.com/

    • Twitter Acquires Cover: https://www.vox.com/2014/4/7/11625332/twitter-acquires-cover-an-android-mobile-startup

    • Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/

    • Rahul Vohra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulvohra/

    • How Superhuman Built an Engine to Find Product Market Fit: https://review.firstround.com/how-superhuman-built-an-engine-to-find-product-market-fit/

    • How to validate your startup idea: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/validating-your-startup-idea

    • How the most successful B2B startups came up with their original idea: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-most-successful-b2b-startups

    • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket

    • A guide for finding product-market fit in B2B: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/finding-product-market-fit

    • Product-market fit method: http://pmf.firstround.com/

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Plaid: https://plaid.com/

    • Paths to PMF: https://review.firstround.com/series/product-market-fit/

    • WeWork: https://www.wework.com/

    • Casper: https://casper.com/

    • Vanta: https://www.vanta.com/

    • Christina Cacioppo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccacioppo/

    • Ramp: https://ramp.com/

    • Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp-became-the-fastest-growing-saas-startup-of-all-time-geoff-charl/

    • Jack Altman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackealtman/

    • Lattice: https://lattice.com/

    • Zachary Perret on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zperret/

    • Positioning: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/positioning

    • Retool: https://retool.com/

    • David Hsu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dvdhsu/

    • Persona: https://withpersona.com/

    • Rick Song on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rick-song-25198b24/

    • Lloyd Tabb on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloydtabb/

    • Looker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looker_(company)

    • Jason Boehmig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jboehmig/

    • Ironclad: https://ironcladapp.com/

    • Lessons in leadership | Scaling an org and tactical management advice | Jack Altman (Lattice): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZzXqf61mrQ

    • Filip Kaliszan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaliszan/

    • Verkada: https://www.verkada.com/

    • Ali Ghodsi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alighodsi/

    • Databricks: https://www.databricks.com/

    • Stripe Radar: https://stripe.com/radar

    • Stripe Atlas: https://stripe.com/atlas

    • Square Stand: https://squareup.com/shop/hardware/us/en/products/ipad-pos-stand-integrated-card-reader

    • Cash App: https://cash.app/

    • Square Checking: https://squareup.com/us/en/campaign/banking/checking

    • Square Loan: https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5654-get-started-with-square-capital

    • Casey Winters on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywinters/

    • How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within-your-company-casey-winters-eventbrite/

    • Josh Kopelman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkopelman/

    • The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan-ramanujam-monetizing-innovation-simon-kucher/

    • Simon Kucher: https://www.simon-kucher.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe