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    444. The Collective Unconscious, Christ, and the Covenant | Russell Brand

    Self-awareness, presence, and acceptance of suffering are key to overcoming addiction and finding inner peace. Engage with the higher will and purpose to let go of the shibboleth of self.

    enApril 29, 2024

    About this Episode

    Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with actor and podcaster Russell Brand. They discuss the language of symbols, the collective unconscious, the evolution of theology, and why so many public intellectuals are coming back to Christ.

     

    Russell Brand is an English comedian, actor, podcaster, and commentator. He first established himself as a stand up comedian and radio host before becoming a film actor. He presented for MTV UK and made appearances across media and TV throughout the 2000’s. In 2008, he leapt from British to U.S. film acting, appearing in the hit film “Forgetting Sarah Marshall,” followed by numerous international successes. In 2013, Brand guest-edited an edition of the weekly publication the New Statesman, launching his interest and later career as a political activist and commentator. His current podcast, Stay Free, sees Brand calling out major news, governments, and corporations for affronts to free speech, expression, spirituality, and thought.

     

     

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    🔑 Key Takeaways

    • Language models reveal how concepts are statistically connected, forming the basis of symbols and the collective unconscious.
    • Birds respond to certain silhouettes based on evolution, death defines reality, sacrifice is essential for community, ideas that resonate relate to survival, chaos gives way to patterns
    • The Bible portrays the relationship between man and God as a covenant with a sacrificial foundation, requiring work and community to uphold it. Abraham's story illustrates this concept, challenging our understanding of being and non-being, and culminating in the ultimate sacrifice in the New Testament.
    • Listen to the voice that calls you out into the world, even if it means leaving behind comforts and making sacrifices for self-discovery and growth.
    • The speaker challenges us to reconsider the current framework of gender roles and equality, suggesting a new paradigm might be necessary. They draw parallels between religion and quantum physics, and warn of the dangers of political forces leading us astray.
    • Recognize the importance of self-sacrifice and action over materialistic desires and hedonistic pleasures to avoid destructive behaviors and promote productive growth.
    • Embrace the fluidity of identity, prioritize principles, and recognize the power of personal relationships and experiences in shaping who we are.
    • Recognize the complexity of symbols and their underlying human needs, strive for open-mindedness, and work towards recognizing truths in each other's perspectives.
    • Power isn't the only force shaping civilization and relationships. Invitation, logos, self-sacrifice, and inaction can also lead to profound impact.
    • Individuals must take responsibility for their lives and become conduits for a higher good to overcome slavery, not just through political means
    • Be mindful of our words, use them responsibly, and accept communication as a gift to shape reality and expand our domain of responsibility.
    • Self-awareness, presence, and acceptance of suffering are key to overcoming addiction and finding inner peace. Engage with the higher will and purpose to let go of the shibboleth of self.
    • Some intellectuals, once skeptical or hedonistic, are rediscovering the transformative power of Christianity for self-transcendence and communion with the divine.
    • Addiction is more than substance use, it's a spiritual struggle. The 12-step program encourages surrendering to a higher power for recovery.
    • Experiencing a loved one's heart surgery left Russell feeling helpless, yet reaffirmed family bonds and deepened his appreciation for literature, particularly 'The Sacred and the Profane' by Mircea Eliade.

    📝 Podcast Summary

    Understanding the Collective Unconscious through Language Models

    The collective unconscious can be understood as the statistical association between ideas within a culture, as mapped by large language models. These models reveal how concepts are connected, with each idea being statistically likely to exist in relation to a certain set of other ideas. This system of weights between concepts forms the basis of symbols, which are sets of statistically associated concepts. The collective unconscious makes symbols real by revealing the intricate network of ideas they represent. Additionally, the discussion touched upon the distinction between arbitrary signifiers and natural or practical symbols. While signifiers can be seen as arbitrary in post-structuralist and semiotics theories, symbols, as part of the collective unconscious, carry deeper meaning and connection to the concepts they represent. The conversation also explored the idea that the modern self often identifies with its whims and desires, and the necessity of something greater to supplant this for personal growth and societal stability. Overall, the conversation provided insights into the nature of the collective unconscious and its role in shaping our understanding of symbols and culture.

    Understanding patterns for survival

    There exists a language and patterns of regularity in nature that have biological significance and contribute to survival. This was discussed in relation to birds responding to certain silhouettes based on their evolutionary history. The idea of what makes something real was also explored, with death being suggested as a defining factor. The concept of sacrifice, as seen in biblical stories, was introduced as an essential aspect of community and long-term survival. The speaker also suggested that the ideas that resonate deeply with us are those that relate to our survival, even if we don't consciously recognize it. The ideas of chaos and the emergence of patterns within it were also touched upon. Overall, the discussion emphasized the importance of understanding patterns and concepts that contribute to our survival and the interconnectedness of various aspects of existence.

    The Bible's concept of sacrifice as a covenantal agreement

    The concept of sacrifice and the nature of the relationship between man and God, as depicted in the Bible, can be understood as a covenantal and contractual agreement. This relationship is based on the idea of work as a sacrificial enterprise, an investment in the future that requires an underlying ethos or community to uphold the contract's viability. The story of Abraham illustrates this concept, as he starts out with privilege but later enters into a sacred agreement with God, which sets the foundation for the development of complex sacrificial civilizations. The idea of sacrifice challenges our most basic categories of being and non-being, and the ultimate sacrifice in the New Testament can be seen as a rendition of the complex pact made between man and God. The nature of this pact remains irresoluble, as it is both a relationship with a being and an absolute dominion.

    Follow the call of the spirit for personal growth

    The story of Abraham illustrates the importance of following the spirit of adventure and leaving one's comfort zone for personal growth and fulfillment. Abraham, with his material wealth and comfort, represents a utopian yet critiqued notion of contentment. However, when he listens to the call of the spirit and embarks on a journey, he faces challenges and is required to make sacrifices, ultimately leading to a life of influence, admiration, and a lasting legacy. The story emphasizes that the greatest form of psychological and social conduct is to follow the voice that calls us out into the world, even if it means leaving behind our comforts and making sacrifices. This journey of self-discovery and growth, filled with challenges and transformations, is a defining aspect of the human experience.

    Exploring the Evolution of Patriarchy and the Need for a New Paradigm

    The idea of patriarchy and the roles of men and women have evolved throughout history, and what we consider a necessary cultural tension between conservatism and progressivism may not be as simple as it seems. The speaker questions the possibility of true equality within the current framework and suggests that a new paradigm, representing a true expression of the divine feminine, might be necessary. The speaker also draws parallels between Christianity and its evolution from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and how the sense of urgency and call to action in the New Testament sets it apart. The speaker proposes that religion and spirituality can be seen as parallel to quantum physics, helping us understand concepts like self and reality. They also point out that in the story of Moses, the political and prophetic forces can lead people astray, and the prophetic can disappear, leaving the political to fall under the sway of hedonism. Overall, the speaker encourages us to question and explore new ways of understanding these complex concepts.

    Materialistic desires and hedonistic pleasures can lead to destructive behaviors

    Materialistic desires and immediate gratification can lead individuals and societies astray, resulting in destructive behaviors and a lack of productive growth. The Israelites' worship of the golden calf serves as an example of this, as they became consumed by their desire for hedonistic pleasures, leading to a descent into selfishness and debauchery. This behavior is akin to the immature instincts of Peter Pan's Neverland, where maturity and sacrifice are absent. While it's important to recognize that even communal structures can become corrupt and co-opted by power, the antidote lies in voluntary self-sacrifice, which is the true antithesis of power. Additionally, the biblical text indicates that those left in the aftermath of significant events, such as the resurrection, will be called upon to do greater things than those who came before, emphasizing the importance of action and sacrifice over mere belief or desire.

    Our identity is fluid and shaped by experiences

    Our identity and beliefs are not fixed but evolve through experiences and relationships. When we default to making the self our god, our instincts and cultural influences become the dominant forces shaping us. It's essential to have principles, values, and a higher purpose to prevent being swayed solely by these forces. The self is an event, not in stasis, and gender distinctions are not defining. Powerful entities seek to control consciousness, but we must acknowledge fluidity, freedom, and acceptance. Our faith, spirituality, morality, and ethics should be guided by our instincts and desires, not by tradition or external control. The next step in our progression may be embracing the ideas emerging from post-structuralism, questioning even nature and our physical selves. Ultimately, it's our duty to demonstrate joy, open-heartedness, and good faith in our personal relationships and actions.

    Understanding the depth behind symbols

    The value of symbols, such as the crucifix or the yin-yang, is secondary in the grand scheme of things. What truly matters is the underlying human need they fulfill and the potential for growth and understanding that emerges from open and respectful dialogue. The postmodernists got it right when they emphasized that we perceive the world through stories, and it's crucial to recognize that these narratives can be more complex than just power struggles. For instance, Moses, a significant figure in religious texts, demonstrates the pitfalls of relying too heavily on power and authority. By acknowledging the complexity of these issues and striving for open-mindedness, we can work towards recognizing the truths in each other's perspectives and ultimately, deliver something valuable to the ongoing conversation.

    Alternative Driving Forces

    Power and force are not the only driving forces behind civilization and human relationships. While authority and the use of force can have their place, the antithesis of power, such as invitation, logos, self-sacrifice, and inaction, can also lead to profound impact. The example of Moses and the staff, as well as Christ's refusal to use force, illustrates the importance of these alternative approaches. The benefits of Western civilization, including its institutions, are not solely a result of force but also of other factors. Ultimately, the internal choice to prioritize the divine and self-sacrifice over material wealth and power may lead to the most meaningful outcomes.

    The struggle against slavery requires more than political revolution

    The struggle against the slave-tyrant dichotomy in both the Exodus story and the capitalist landscape cannot be solved through political revolution alone. Instead, it requires individuals to take responsibility for their own lives and stop being slaves to their desires and whims. This is not a political problem, but a deeper existential one. The solution lies in voluntary service to a higher good and becoming a locus of authority and responsibility ourselves. This idea is reflected in the responsibility of being a good parent, which is not a political decision but a deeply personal one. By letting the spirit of our ancestors pour through us, we can become conduits for the benevolent spirit and find meaning and purpose beyond the political realm.

    The Power of Words and Political Leadership

    Both political power and the power of words hold significant influence in shaping reality. Moses, as a political leader, wielded power against a rival king, while Jesus, as an emissary, used the power of words to instill change. The desert serves as a parallel in both scenarios, representing a challenging environment for transformation. It's crucial to be mindful of our words and use them responsibly to expand our domain of responsibility and generate community. The power of words, like the power of Logos, can impact reality differently than force. The key is to stay receptive and accept the communication as a gift, allowing it to flow through us effortlessly. Ultimately, we are all apostles, responsible for forming and instantiating potentiality with our words.

    From addiction to inner peace: Addressing the inner coordinate

    The key to overcoming addiction and finding inner peace lies not in eliminating external stimuli, but in addressing the inner coordinate or receptive pole. The speaker emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and presence in the present moment, as well as the acceptance of suffering as part of God's will. The use of language and the search for truth through it are also mentioned as potential sources of insight and connection. The speaker's own journey from hedonistic success to mysticism and eventually Christianity is highlighted as an example of this process. In essence, the challenge is to let go of the shibboleth of self and engage with the higher will and purpose.

    Intellectuals Rediscovering Christianity

    Some intellectuals, including Ion Hirsi Ali, Neil Ferguson, Douglas Murray, Tom Holland, and Richard Dawkins, are experiencing a newfound connection to Christian mysticism, despite their past skepticism or hedonistic leanings. This recognition is manifesting in their lives as a deeper appreciation for self-transcendence and communion with the divine. This shift may seem surprising, but it echoes the idea of wisdom through excess and the prodigal son's journey home. For the speaker, this return to Christianity feels like a rediscovery of something that has always been present, rather than a novel discovery. The appeal lies in the transformative power of these texts to induce states beyond the literal meaning and the sense that this spiritual path has always been there, waiting to be embraced.

    A deeper spiritual issue: Addiction and the 12-step program

    Addiction is not just about substance use, but a deeper spiritual issue. The 12-step program, influenced by Jung and early Christianity, encourages addicts to "give up self" and abandon themselves to a higher power. The allure of addictive behaviors, such as pornography, can be more compelling than abstinence alone. However, testimonies from those who have tried and failed to give in to these temptations can be more powerful in deterring others. Despite the potential dangers of external tyranny, there seems to be an internal struggle, with forces at work beyond our understanding. The culture may even glorify hedonism and self-indulgence, but true transformation comes when we move towards a higher power. Ultimately, the journey towards recovery is a spiritual one.

    The profound impact of a loved one's life-threatening situation

    Experiencing a life-threatening situation with a loved one can profoundly impact one's perspective on life and strengthen family bonds. Russell shared his experience of witnessing his son's heart surgery, which left him feeling helpless and despairing, yet also reaffirmed his connection with his family. He recommended reading "The Sacred and the Profane" by Mircea Eliade, which he found to be a powerful and influential book, particularly in understanding the human experience and the role of religion in it. The conversation also touched upon the works of Joseph Campbell and the Iliad, emphasizing their impact on understanding the human condition and the significance of the sacred and the profane. Overall, the conversation underscored the importance of family, the power of literature, and the profound impact of life experiences.

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    Peterson Academy https://petersonacademy.com/  

     

     

    For Dr. Patrick Moore:

     

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    “Fake Invisible Catastrophes And Threats of Doom” (Book) https://www.amazon.com/Fake-Invisible-Catastrophes-Threats-Doom-ebook/dp/B08T6FFY6S/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=fake+invisible+catastrophe&qid=1612915229&s=digital-text&sr=1-1