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    #1276 - Ben Shapiro

    Individuals have the power to change their circumstances through making the right choices, taking action, and embracing personal responsibility and community support.

    en-usApril 03, 2019

    About this Episode

    Ben Shapiro is editor-in-chief of the Daily Wire, syndicated columnist, and host of “The Ben Shapiro Show." His new book "The Right Side Of History" is available now everywhere.

    🔑 Key Takeaways

    • Ben Shapiro faces unfair criticism and false assumptions, but his well-formulated ideas and commitment to education should be recognized. It is important to approach sensitive topics with an open mind and promote understanding.
    • Society needs to shift towards a more forgiving and understanding approach that allows individuals to learn from their mistakes and grow, rather than focusing on categorizing and attacking them based on past actions.
    • Content platforms like Facebook and YouTube are facing a dilemma in balancing their role as neutral platforms for free expression and their increasing responsibility as editors, leading to concerns about bias censorship and legal liability.
    • Tech companies like Facebook and Twitter should prioritize their role as platforms for communication, rather than becoming editors and moral arbitrators, and transparency in their actions is crucial.
    • Respectful dialogue and the exchange of ideas foster critical thinking, personal growth, and understanding. Government involvement in personal matters can infringe on individual rights and transparency is vital to prevent manipulation of information.
    • Personal choices regarding marriage and activities such as marijuana usage should be left to individuals without interference from the government, promoting personal freedom and limited government involvement.
    • Addiction and abuse should be addressed through personal responsibility and community support, rather than relying solely on government intervention.
    • Government laws on substances may hinder our understanding of their effects. Rational thinking and more research are needed to determine proper substance use, while societal perceptions and personal choice play a role in drug use.
    • While certain drugs like MDMA have shown therapeutic benefits, it is important to exercise caution when using drugs to find happiness or escape struggles. Balancing self-mastery and seeking aid is crucial in navigating life's challenges.
    • Struggle and discipline are essential for personal growth and success. It is important to set rules and push oneself to achieve a better perspective. Embrace open communication and recognize the opportunities available for progress.
    • Individuals have the power to change their circumstances through making the right choices, taking action, and embracing personal responsibility and community support.
    • Diversity can only be a positive force in society when individuals with different backgrounds come together with a common purpose, shared values, and goals. Personal responsibility and a focus on community are essential for progress.
    • Taking personal responsibility and making proactive decisions can lead to positive change in one's life, while attaching a plan to government welfare programs is crucial for effective assistance in extreme poverty or dangerous environments.
    • Universal basic income alone cannot solve the deeper problem of losing purpose when people lose their jobs. Practical and open dialogue is needed to find solutions to the challenges we face.
    • While job loss due to automation is a valid concern, technology also brings forth new job opportunities. Adapting to the changing job market and considering the complexities of automation and welfare can aid in the development of effective policies.
    • Ben Shapiro emphasizes the importance of assuming responsibility for one's actions, particularly when it comes to parenting, and making choices that prioritize the well-being of children.
    • Shapiro believes in traditional marriage based on religious beliefs, while Rogan supports personal freedom and choice. However, they both believe that personal views should not dictate public policy.
    • Religious beliefs impact personal views on morality and relationships, requiring individuals to adhere to religious principles even if they conflict with societal changes.
    • Shapiro emphasizes that biological drive does not excuse certain behaviors, while Rogan questions the relevance and interpretation of ancient religious texts, highlighting the tension between Judeo-Christian values and Greek reason.
    • Acknowledging the importance of both religion and reason in our belief systems allows for personal growth and guides us towards a society based on personal freedom and the absence of harm.
    • Personal beliefs and religious values play a crucial role in shaping perspectives, emphasizing the significance of discipline, structure, and personal freedom within an ideology. It is also vital to acknowledge and respect diverse beliefs while engaging in meaningful conversations.
    • It is important to advocate against discrimination while fostering open dialogue and respect for different perspectives in order to create a society where diverse ideas can peacefully coexist.
    • It is important to accept and respect others' beliefs and lifestyles, separating their identity from their actions, and focusing on understanding and respecting different perspectives. Disagreeing with someone's choices does not make them lesser as individuals.
    • It is important to recognize and appreciate the diversity of beliefs and values in society, while also finding common ground and respecting the rights and freedoms of individuals.
    • This discussion explores the contrasting viewpoints of Ben Shapiro and Sam regarding the nature of truth, highlighting the complexities and differences in their philosophical and religious beliefs.
    • Understanding and respecting differing beliefs on free will and determinism is crucial, and the discussion highlights challenges faced by those who may face societal disapproval for their sexual orientation.
    • Open-mindedness and understanding are crucial in discussions about morality and values. Personal beliefs should not be imposed on others, and different perspectives should be recognized as individual truths.
    • Asking questions, seeking plausible answers, and engaging in respectful dialogue are crucial in countering extremism and promoting informed perspectives while avoiding unreliable sources.
    • Seek objective journalism to gain a clear perspective on news, as biases shape reporting and mislabeling individuals decreases the credibility of certain media outlets.
    • The media's focus on Trump's alleged collusion with Russia has helped strengthen his position, damaged their own credibility, and diverted attention from other important issues. Prioritizing accuracy and honesty is crucial to regaining public trust.
    • People's support or opposition to WikiLeaks is often influenced by political alignment, raising questions about its role, motivations, and the complexities of politics.

    đź“ť Podcast Summary

    The Misrepresentation and Demonization of Ben Shapiro

    Ben Shapiro, despite being labeled as outright and conservative, is often misrepresented. He has been a target of anti-Semitic abuse but has consistently condemned white supremacists and the alt-right. Shapiro's well-formulated ideas and debates demonstrate that he has spent a significant amount of time educating himself and thinking through complex issues. However, he faces demonization and false assumptions, with people accusing him of wanting to destroy those on the other side. It is important to recognize that there are individuals online who engage in this kind of behavior and that their actions do not reflect Shapiro's true character. It is also crucial to approach discussions on sensitive topics, such as Muslim relations, with an open mind and the intention to promote understanding.

    The Consequences of a Lack of Honesty and Fairness in Society

    In today's society, there is a troubling lack of honesty and fairness when it comes to holding people accountable for their past actions or statements. Ben Shapiro emphasizes the importance of being honest about one's mistakes and being open to apology and growth. However, he highlights how people are often categorized and attacked for things they said or did years ago, without considering their current views or personal growth. This disingenuous approach displays a deeper problem of wanting to hurt or get rid of someone rather than genuinely seeking improvement. The public space is becoming increasingly toxic, where apologies are seen as insincere and shameless behavior is rewarded. This culture of targeting and categorizing individuals stifles healthy discourse and the opportunity for people to genuinely learn and change.

    The Blurred Line Between Platform and Editor

    Content platforms like Facebook and YouTube are facing a major challenge in determining their role and responsibility. While they claim to be platforms where users can freely express themselves, they are also starting to act as editors and moral gatekeepers. This creates a blurred line between being a neutral platform and a publisher with editorial control. The issue becomes even more complex when it comes to enforcing standards on content and users. Although they may ban certain objectionable content, they often lack transparency, leading to concerns about biased censorship. Moreover, if platforms accept the responsibility of moderating content, they open themselves up to legal liability, just like publishers. This ongoing struggle between being a platform and an editor raises questions about freedom of speech, individuals' responsibility, and the future of online communication.

    The Influence of Tech Companies in Controlling Speech and Conversation

    There is growing concern over the power and influence of tech companies like Facebook and Twitter in shaping conversations and determining what speech is allowed. People like Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan raise valid points about the dangers of these platforms becoming editors and moral arbitrators. The responsibility of deciding what can and cannot be discussed lies in the hands of a few individuals, largely residing in the tech-heavy and progressive region of Silicon Valley. While providing a platform for communication is a valuable service, these companies should focus on that role rather than imposing their own political ideologies. The need for transparency and honesty in the actions and intentions of tech companies becomes increasingly important in such a rapidly evolving digital landscape.

    The Importance of Freedom of Speech and Open Dialogue in Society

    Freedom of speech and open conversation are vital for a healthy society. Silencing opposing viewpoints and controlling information channels can be dangerous and counterproductive. It is important to engage in respectful dialogue, even with those who hold different beliefs. The exchange of ideas allows for critical thinking, the examination of evidence, and the potential for personal growth and understanding. While individuals may have personal moral beliefs, it is crucial to recognize that government involvement in matters such as same-sex marriage or personal behavior can infringe on individual rights and should be limited. Transparency and the ability to scrutinize arguments help prevent the manipulation of information or the creation of echo chambers.

    Ben Shapiro advocates for personal freedom and limited government involvement in personal matters such as marriage and marijuana usage.

    Ben Shapiro believes the government should not have any involvement in personal matters such as virginity and marriage. He argues that consensual activities like sex and marriage are not the government's business and should not be regulated. He emphasizes that people should be able to make their own choices about whom they want to marry and engage in activities with, without interference from the government. Shapiro also highlights the importance of religious ceremonies and personal values over governmental recognition. Additionally, he discusses his views on marijuana, acknowledging that excessive usage among teenagers can have detrimental effects on brain development. However, he also acknowledges that marijuana can have positive effects for certain individuals, such as enhancing focus and performance in activities like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Overall, Shapiro advocates for personal freedom and limited government involvement in private matters.

    Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro discuss marijuana addiction and societal responsibility.

    Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro discuss the use of marijuana and its potential addictive qualities. They agree that while addiction exists, it is not widespread among marijuana users. They compare it to other substances like alcohol and nicotine, which also have potential for abuse. They believe that addiction and abuse are not issues that should be solely addressed through government intervention but also through social fabric and personal responsibility. They emphasize the importance of making better choices and fostering a supportive community. Additionally, they touch upon the potential influence of religious experiences and rituals, suggesting that some religious doctrines may have originated from psychedelic experiences. Overall, their discussion highlights the complexity of substance use and the need for a compassionate and multifaceted approach to address related issues.

    Government Laws and Perceptions of Drug Use

    Our perceptions of what is good or bad for us are often shaped by laws created ignorantly by the government. Joe Rogan points out that the illegal status of certain substances has hindered our understanding of their effects, and laws shaped by tyrants have influenced our attitudes towards them. Ben Shapiro adds that it is important to use our rational faculties to determine the proper use of substances and avoid overuse. However, they both agree that government interventionism has largely failed when it comes to drugs. They also discuss the potential benefits of psychedelics in end-of-life therapy, highlighting the need for more research and open-mindedness. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the complexities of personal choice, religious beliefs, and societal perceptions surrounding drug use.

    The Complexities of Drugs: Recognizing Their Different Effects

    The use of psychoactive substances, often referred to as drugs, can have both positive and negative effects. It is important to recognize that not all drugs fall under the same category and blanket judgments can be misleading. Certain substances like MDMA, when used in therapy sessions, have shown remarkable benefits in helping individuals with PTSD and traumatic experiences find peace and healing. However, caution must be exercised in using drugs as a means of finding happiness or escaping the struggles of life. Struggle itself is considered meaningful and a part of being human. While substances can provide temporary relief or a new perspective, it is equally important to develop discipline and engage with life's challenges, both physically and mentally. Finding a balance between self-mastery and seeking aid is crucial in navigating the complexities of the human experience.

    Embracing Struggle and Discipline for Personal Growth and Success

    Struggle and discipline are essential for personal growth and understanding oneself. Both Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro emphasize the importance of pushing oneself and setting rules to achieve a better perspective and achieve success. They agree that struggle and discipline are fundamental in various aspects of life, including physical fitness and personal development. Both men believe that rules serve a purpose and should not be disregarded without understanding their roots. Additionally, they highlight that despite societal challenges, we live in an incredibly prosperous and free society, where communication and understanding can thrive. It is crucial to recognize the opportunities available and embrace open and balanced communication for personal and societal progress.

    Embracing personal responsibility and community support for a better future.

    Individuals have the power to change their circumstances and create a better life for themselves. Ben Shapiro emphasizes the importance of making the right choices and taking action in order to succeed. He argues against the mentality of victimhood and urges people to embrace the opportunities for adventure and growth in America. Shapiro believes that basic decisions such as finishing high school, avoiding unwed pregnancies, and obtaining employment can lead to a better future. Additionally, he highlights the significance of building a strong social fabric within communities, where people have a sense of duty towards one another and practice charity. Ultimately, the key takeaway is that personal responsibility and community support are crucial for individual and societal progress.

    The Power of Shared Values and Goals in Diversity

    Diversity can only strengthen our social fabric if we have a common goal. Ethnic diversity alone doesn't lead to positive outcomes, as research shows it only correlates with increased TV watching and protest marches. However, when diverse individuals come together with a shared purpose, like in a church or the army, diversity becomes a positive force. A functioning social fabric requires us to aim our "guns" in the same direction, meaning we must share fundamental values and goals. When it comes to charity and assistance, it is more meaningful and connected within a community rather than relying solely on government welfare. Personal responsibility plays a crucial role, and while we should have sympathy for those facing adversity, individuals should make plans to improve their own lives. Moreover, it is important not to perpetuate a victim mentality, as constantly portraying oneself as a victim prevents personal growth and progress. Awareness of both the good and bad aspects of history is crucial, but continuously portraying individuals as perpetual victims in the United States hinders true progress.

    Personal Responsibility and Proactive Decisions for Life Improvement

    Personal decisions play a significant role in improving one's life. Both Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan emphasize the importance of individuals making choices that are within their control, such as finishing high school and avoiding single motherhood. Complaining about reality rarely leads to positive change, but taking personal responsibility and making proactive decisions can lead to improvement. While compassion and assistance are necessary for some individuals facing extreme poverty or dangerous environments, it is crucial to attach a plan to government welfare programs rather than simply providing a check. This plan may involve increased law enforcement in crime-ridden areas to create safer conditions, as safety is a prerequisite for community improvement.

    Addressing the crisis of purpose and job loss in society

    There is a crisis of purpose in society today that cannot be solved simply by creating government welfare programs or implementing universal basic income (UBI). While UBI might address the issue of income and poverty, it does not address the deeper problem of losing purpose when people lose their jobs. Furthermore, automation and the potential loss of millions of jobs in a short period of time raise concerns about chaos and adapting to new professions. It is important to recognize that not everyone can easily transition from one type of work to another. Censorship and the absurdity of taking offense to harmless phrases like "learn to code" highlights the need for more open dialogue and practical solutions to address the real challenges we face.

    Balancing Job Loss and Job Creation in the Age of Automation

    Automation and technology will undoubtedly lead to job loss in certain areas, but it will also create new job opportunities in others. While there is concern about the potential catastrophic drop in job numbers, it is important to consider that technology will likely become more of a productivity aid rather than completely replacing human workers. Certain professions may be at risk, such as radiologists who may be replaced by computers in diagnosing tumors. However, technology has historically been integrated into different careers, leading to the creation of new jobs. It is true that some jobs will be eliminated, but there will also be jobs that we haven't even heard of yet. It is crucial to adapt and embrace the changing job market rather than fear it. Regarding the idea of a universal basic income, while it may provide a safety net for those in need, there are concerns about how individuals will use this money and whether it will truly benefit them in the long run. Incentives and individual choices play a significant role in the effectiveness of welfare systems. There are varying circumstances among individuals who rely on welfare, and it is essential to consider the different realities they face. Ultimately, it is a complex issue with no easy solution, but understanding the nuances of job automation and welfare can help shape effective policies moving forward.

    Taking Responsibility and Prioritizing Children's Well-being

    Ben Shapiro believes that if someone is old enough to get pregnant, they should also be old enough to handle the consequences and responsibilities that come with it. He argues that parents should stay together for the sake of the child they accidentally bore, rather than walking away and leaving the child without a father figure. Shapiro believes that a significant percentage of American births in the past saw parents staying together under similar circumstances. Additionally, the conversation veers into the topic of expensive violins, with Shapiro explaining the difference in sound and value between different instruments. Ultimately, the key message is about taking responsibility and making choices that prioritize the well-being of children.

    Differing Views on Same-Sex Marriage

    Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan have differing views on same-sex marriage, with Shapiro expressing a religious perspective and Rogan advocating for personal freedom and choice. Shapiro believes that traditional marriage between a man and a woman is more valuable as it aligns with his religious beliefs and the notion that men and women have different qualities that complement each other. However, Rogan counters this by emphasizing that people should have the option to marry whomever they choose, regardless of their sexual orientation, and that being gay is not a conscious decision but rather a natural part of who they are. Despite their disagreement, both agree that personal views on marriage should not dictate public policy.

    Religion, Morality, and Personal Beliefs: Exploring the Intersection

    Religious beliefs often shape people's views on morality and personal relationships. Ben Shapiro argues that religion rejects the idea that one's drive or identity justifies certain behaviors, and that those who choose to participate in a religion must adhere to its precepts. He believes that religious traditions often require individuals to resist their natural inclinations in various aspects of life. Shapiro also points out that while the shift in the value of marriage primarily being about procreation to a focus on love has supported the case for same-sex marriage, it does not align with his religious beliefs. Ultimately, this conversation highlights the tension between personal beliefs and societal changes, raising questions about the room for growth and adaptation within religious ideologies.

    Perspectives on Homosexuality and Religious Beliefs

    The discussion between Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro highlights the different perspectives on homosexuality and religious beliefs. While Shapiro acknowledges that homosexuality is biologically driven, he argues that a biological drive does not excuse certain behaviors. He believes that religious commandments were written in a time when people had never seen a gay person before, implying a lack of understanding and empathy. On the other hand, Rogan questions the relevance of ancient religious texts today and suggests that translations and oral traditions have made it challenging to interpret their true meaning. The conversation also touches on the naturalistic explanations for religious practices and miracles. Ultimately, this discussion underscores the ongoing tension between Judeo-Christian values and Greek reason that shapes Western civilization.

    Balancing Religion and Reason in Civilization

    Civilization is like a suspension bridge, balancing fundamental precepts of religion and reason. Religion keeps us grounded with certain truths and principles, while reason allows us to adapt and improve our understanding. However, we must be careful not to let either dominate completely. Losing reason to theocracy leads to tyrannical rule, while losing religion to pure reason can lead to dark and chaotic places. It's important to acknowledge and respect the fundamental roots of our belief systems while allowing for growth and development. Both Judaism and Christianity recognize that everyone commits sins and should not judge others. Ultimately, personal freedom and the absence of harm should guide our actions.

    The Role of Personal Beliefs and Religious Values in Shaping Perspectives

    Both Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan emphasize the importance of personal beliefs and religious values in shaping their perspectives. While they may have differing views on certain issues, they both acknowledge the significance of discipline, structure, and personal freedom within an ideology. Shapiro highlights the need for individuals to recognize their own drives and forego certain actions, while Rogan emphasizes the benefits of discipline and structure. Additionally, Shapiro expresses the understanding that individuals have different beliefs and should not expect others to share the same perspectives. This conversation also raises the importance of respectful coexistence, where individuals can hold diverse beliefs while still engaging in meaningful conversations and interactions.

    Balancing advocacy and respect for diversity in society.

    It is important to recognize the difference between highlighting a problem and using the government to force beliefs or actions on others. While it may be valid to advocate against discrimination and raise awareness about certain issues, taking legal action and imposing fines on individuals or businesses can create a hostile environment for communication and understanding. It is crucial to foster open dialogue, respect different perspectives, and aim for real comprehension rather than silencing or censoring opposing viewpoints. Regardless of religious or political beliefs, the key is to be a good person, treat others with kindness, and strive for ethical behavior. By embracing true diversity and promoting civil discourse, we can build a society where different ideas can peacefully coexist.

    Embracing Diversity and Respecting Differences

    People should be accepting of others' beliefs and lifestyles as long as they are not causing harm. Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro discuss the importance of being tolerant and not feeling the need to criticize or change someone because of their different beliefs or actions. They emphasize that it is crucial to separate a person's identity from their activities. Disapproving of certain actions does not make someone lesser or unworthy as a human being. It is possible to disagree with someone's choices without disapproving of them as individuals. The key is to focus on understanding and respecting different perspectives, even if they don't align with our own.

    Understanding and Respecting Diverse Beliefs

    People have different beliefs and ways of living, and that's okay. Both Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan acknowledge this in their conversation about religion. They understand that each person's faith or lack thereof has psychological benefits and can contribute to their personal growth. They also recognize the importance of respect and not forcing one's beliefs onto others. Living in a society means constantly disapproving of each other, but as long as it's not imposing harm, it shouldn't be a problem. What matters more is finding common ground and agreeing on fundamental values like free speech, diversity of opinion, and individualism, regardless of where those values originate from.

    Contrasting Perspectives on Truth and its Origins

    Ben Shapiro and Sam have different perspectives on truth and its origins. Ben believes in an objective truth that exists outside of evolutionary benefits, while Sam leans more toward a pragmatist view where truth is what is useful to us. Ben questions how Sam can reconcile objective truth with a scientific materialist worldview. Additionally, Ben sees a divergence between the religious viewpoint and Sam's perspective, particularly in their beliefs about human existence and evolution. They also differ in their views on free will, with Sam claiming it does not exist while Ben emphasizes the value of personal responsibility and decision-making. Overall, this discussion highlights the complexities and differences in philosophical and religious beliefs.

    The Debate between Free Will and Determinism

    In short, one big takeaway from this conversation is the debate between free will and determinism. Ben Shapiro argues that human beings have the capacity to make choices and exercise their free will, which brings about positive outcomes and a sense of accomplishment. On the other hand, Sam's belief in determinism suggests that our actions are dictated by external factors and past experiences. Joe Rogan expresses his belief in a combination of both determinism and free will. While the discussion does not provide a conclusive answer, it highlights the importance of understanding and respecting people's beliefs, even if they differ from our own. It also sheds light on the challenges faced by individuals who may face societal disapproval due to their sexual orientation.

    A discussion on personal beliefs, tolerance, and the role of religion in shaping ethical frameworks.

    Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro engage in a conversation about personal beliefs, tolerance, and the role of religion in shaping ethical frameworks. They highlight the importance of allowing individuals to make their own choices without imposing personal beliefs on them. They acknowledge that people have different values and assumptions about life, but it is crucial to recognize these as individual perspectives rather than absolute truths. Ben Shapiro emphasizes that religion provides a structure for ethical living but acknowledges that everyone makes assumptions about the nature of human life. Ultimately, they discuss the potential for bigotry when defining others' behavior as sinful, especially when it does not directly affect oneself. This conversation highlights the need for open-mindedness and understanding in societal and personal discussions about morality and values.

    The Importance of Open Dialogue and Pursuit of Knowledge in Combating Extremism

    The conversation highlights the importance of asking questions and seeking plausible answers rather than shutting down discussions. Ben Shapiro emphasizes that when conversations about sensitive topics like race and IQ are abruptly halted, it creates an opportunity for extremist views to gain traction. Steven Pinker's argument about the danger of avoiding these conversations is highlighted, as he suggests that failing to address these questions pushes people to seek answers from unreliable sources. The conversation also delves into the importance of understanding cultural and biological factors in explaining differences among ethnic groups. Ultimately, the key takeaway is that open and respectful dialogue, coupled with the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, is vital in combating extremism and promoting informed perspectives.

    Unveiling Media Biases

    Media biases exist and it's important to be aware of them. Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan discuss how biases shape news reporting and journalism. They emphasize the need for journalists to reveal their biases so that readers can access news with a clear understanding of its perspective. They also highlight the problem of clickbaity articles and mislabeling individuals, which has led to a decrease in the credibility of certain media outlets. The conversation touches on the Mueller report and how people's preconceived notions affected their reaction to it. Ultimately, the key takeaway is the importance of seeking real journalism and objective takes on important subjects instead of relying on biased reporting.

    The Media's Collusion Claims and Their Unintended Consequences

    The media's repeated claims of Trump's collusion with Russia have backfired tremendously. By pushing a false narrative for two years, they have not only empowered Trump, but also undermined their own credibility. This has made it easier for Trump to dismiss legitimate criticism as "fake news", as people are less likely to believe nuanced views of the media. The media's obsession with possible collusion has overshadowed other important issues and shows a lack of critical thinking and objectivity. This situation serves as a reminder that when it comes to politics, it is important to attribute actions to stupidity rather than malice, unless proven otherwise. It is crucial for the media and politicians to prioritize accuracy and honesty to regain public trust.

    The Shifting Opinions on WikiLeaks and its Impact on Politics

    People's opinions on WikiLeaks are often based on whether or not they support the narrative they want. Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan discuss how opinions on WikiLeaks have shifted, highlighting the fact that it is influenced by political alignment. They also mention the controversy surrounding WikiLeaks' release of unredacted information, which caused anger and concern. The conversation further explores Julian Assange's situation and the stress he faces while living in the embassy. Ultimately, this discussion shows that political opinions and principles can change depending on convenience and circumstances. It raises questions about the role of WikiLeaks, the motivations behind its actions, and the complexities of politics.

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