Imperfect Mens Club

Mark starts out with the wheel and announces we will have a guest on today - Jeff Otis

He addresses the flywheel and suggests today’s “self-“ focus will be on self awareness and self confidence as it pertains to leadership

Mark tosses it to Jim and Jim talks about how we all met

Jim welcomes Jeff and Jeff says hello

Jim takes Jeff around the wheel and starts with worldview

Jeff tells us where he’s from - Beaverton OR…it’s also where he still lives

His community was tight and there were great communities and leaders

Jeff played baseball all the way thru college

As far as politics, Jeff is an independent and looks for what is practical and makes sense

Jeff started looking into what makes up a great leaders.  He shares some insight about Oregon

He talks about the men in his life and sports and then he tells us about moving into work in staffing which was dominated by women. He has three daughters

Jeff talks about how important it is to pause and reflect on who you’re speaking to before speaking

Jim asks Jeff about his male role models and starts with his dad…and little league

Then Jeff names off the coaches who helped shape him. He was on 21 different championship teams!

His high school had 13 guys who went D1 or pro!

Jim shares his high school football success and speaks of the “winning culture”

Jeff reflects on being a pitcher and Jim folks about how pitchers are a bit off:)

Jim m loves on to health - Jeff shares how important mental toughness and resilient are so important

Jeff shares agin how important pausing and reflecting are

Next is money - Jeff reflects on money. “Monet kind of finds you when you need it”

Jim quotes “When I stopped chasing money and women, they started chasing me”

Jim brings Mark back into the discussion. Mark talks a bit about the work we are now doing together

Mark asks Jeff to speak further about his program that is now “our” program

Jeff discusses how we met and started to collaborate

Jim jumps in and asks Jeff about his professional journey. Jeff went in to staffing (just like Mark!)

He gets into detail about his 15 year career in staffing and his subsequent growth into the leadership space.  He found that people went down 2 available forks   Victim or transformation

He noticed that people needed help when they hit the wall. He went into digital marketing, his kids started to reach young adulthood, the internet became mainstream and smartphones came out

He felt compelled to help people craft their successful future selves

Jeff shares how the Project OTY evolved from this discovery and how he began to have success with young people

Jim asks Mark’s opinion - Marks talks about his kids and helping them find work and how he evolved into coaching. No one gave themselves permission to dream. Many had no purpose. Enter Jeff

What’s your unique strength, what’s your vision and how do you define success - most people seemed to struggle with all three

Jeff begins talking about how we all fit together.  He describes his Project OTY “Build Your Roadmap” Program

He calls it developing that “North Star”

Jim offers up another quote - Momentum. “If you’re on a bike and you freeze, you fall down”. He shares a quick story about his daughter’s flight to Japan and how it will “off course” 99% of the time. Jeff - it’s like a guided missile

Jeff says most people want to help but many don’t know how - That’s what Jeff’s program helps with

His program takes the what and why and adds the how through his critical thinking journey

You can’t take anybody where they want to go until you help them define where they want to go, building structure and confidence

Mark pipes in with more insight about what the audience might get from the partnership and then moves into their current working plan. The program establishes a foundation, a working document for life.

Jeff - we live in a world of distractions and everyone needs a plan to get them back on track

Jim bring in the 5 W’s - Who, what, when, where and why. He quotes Thomas Sowell “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth, when you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear”

Jim cites the value of a coach…an objective third party

Jeff talks about accountability and how important it is

Mark end with how optimistic he is about the future

Mark starts with the IMC flywheel of life

Todays topic is self respect or self dignity and how it impacts relationships

Mark says it was at the core of his divorce

“If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything

He shares his thoughts about the mask mandates

Jim asks Mark to read the definitions of self-respect and self-dignity

Jim brings the wheel back in, shares the 5 categories and he lands on Relationships

Mark reflects back on his upbringing and his family’s evolution

He cites his sister’s disrespectful posture and then he shares his disagreement with his daughter about BLM

Jim applauds Mark’s ability to maintain his self-respect

Jim talks a bit about his dad’s ability to demand/maintain his self respect

Both guys suggested men are being challenged in this area all the time

Jim says when a leader caves, he can’t get that back

The guys bring childhood fighting and sports into the discussion

Then mark shares his experience with employees who give up their dignity at work

Mark tells his self respect story from 25 years ago

Jim reflects on Marks story with praise and cites his self-control too

Jim thinks the self respect issue is very different between men and woman

He shares his views on his dealings with women

Mark talks about relationships and how different they can be

Jim says “manage the crazy” and the guys have fun with it.  He says we’re all “crazy”

Both guys think masculinity and femininity are being challenged and the roles are blurred

Man needs woman and woman needs man

Mark talks about his current relationship and how the roles have developed. He attributes their success to the level of dignity they both encourage each other to maintain

Jim brings crazy back up and how triggering it is - they get a few laughs

Jim talks about his wife’s reaction to “crazy”

Mark says people give up their dignity too easily.  How you say things is important

Jim brings up cancel culture and how bad that is

Mark thinks the current people in power are asking us to give up our self respect

Jim brings up the shift in schools around bullying and how teachers can’t discipline anymore

Mark shares a junior high school fight story…Jim has one of his own too

Mark thinks young men are being weakened

Jim tells his story about misbehaving in class when he was young - one of the best lessons he ever received

Mark says even if you don’t feel it right away, giving up your self respect eats away at your soul

He also says that anyone who would intentionally try to take another’s self respect away is evil

Jim shares his experience with a manipulative leader who cut down students in a group he was in

Jim brings up the military and their psychological training

Mark brings up the difference - sacrificing their lives - requires a different set of rules

Mark begins with the wheel and the concept of authenticity. You begin in the center with self and it’s fascinating how you can then connect it to all 5 areas of life

Mark tells how the topic came up in a LinkedIn connection earlier in the day

Both guys agree that bragging online about material possessions doesn’t work anymore…maybe it never did

Mark talks about how authenticity is dominating his life lately

Jim shares his viewpoint and brings AI into the conversation and how AI could potentially bring a lot of inauthentic information into the world. He expands on how we don’t really trust institutions anymore.  Advertisers, brands, etc

He says you can’t fake authenticity…you’ll eventually be found out

Mark reflects on his evolution from how he communicated as a young man and how he has discovered his authenticity and feels much braver in his content creation.  Authenticity has become his goal

Jim is reminded of why we named our podcast the Imperfect Mens Club

Jim suggests that authenticity is more challenging when you are younger

He talks about shedding the people who don’t serve you

Mark suggests that being authentic is risky, but it’s OK to lose people who don’t serve you

The guys bring up worldview and Mark say our “leaders” are in authentic and it has invaded most institutions

Jim bring up his mom and how she feels that it’s noisier now then ever.  People in positions of power and influence can no longer be trusted

Jim calls them paid actors

Mark talks about the left going back into people’s personal accounts to find dirt

He also acknowledges that people evolve and change

They bring up Joe Rogan and Bill Maher and Jim mentions Jon Stewart

Mark says he does not demonize people, but the left does

Jim brings up Biden and how sad he is.  Also all the people that defend his sanity - inauthentic

Both guys suggest that the far left develops narratives based on rumors and lies

They have fun with how inauthentic Kamal Harris is

Gavin Newsome rounds out politics and inauthenticity

Mark shifts the conversation to the topic of health, both physically and mentally

Jim reenforces the notion of “your best self” and the importance of having an authentic story - your origin story. He’s more comfortable now sharing his flaws and challenges

Mark gives Jim credit for his evolution of authenticity

Mark talks about some of his challenges

Jim brings up his revelation about Mark’s divorce story

You can get bitter or you can get better

The guys discuss transparency and the idea of doing what you say you are going to do

Mark gives his example of looking for people who do and say the same things

Jim ends with the importance of surrounding yourself with authentic people

Mark cites his more recent success on LinkedIn and how more people following him who are also trying to be authentic.

Mark starts with a summary of the clubs philosophy and the flywheel and the 5 areas of life

He mentions his own recent battle with self doubt and can relate to middle aged men who get much of their self worth from their careers, and what happens when they are faced with a career change

Jim reiterates what we use as our foundational structure and goes into the topic of today - self doubt

Jim talks about the connection between self doubt and self worth

Mark reads a definition of self doubt from a Google search

Mark shares his most recent challenge with self doubt.  He first mentions how he leaned on colleagues and friends for support

Mark shares the detail of his “big deal” and how self doubt crept in

He shares how grateful he was to have tools and resources to lean of to overcome his fears

Jim, as usual, wants to break it down

He proposes that Mark might have been in a protective mode and Mark agrees

He goes on to suggest that he probably had some subconscious drivers that he couldn’t even understand. He also shares how much of how we react is based on being in survival mode

Mark mentions his divorce and Jim says even though that was “a long time ago” it is likely still lingering and impacting his confidence

Jim share a quote - “A bad day for the ego is a good day for the soul”

Mark agrees and suggests that his self worth was at stake

Mark’s deal went through and he shares how cathartic the win was

He also shares his gratitude and Jim appreciates it and Mark says we don’t do anything good by ourselves

Jim observes how much work Mark did and how he took some chances. Mark relates his recruiting work to this deal and how little context he had with this project. While doing his work he got no feedback until it was go time

Jim brings up Mark’s other situation that he shut down, which opened this “other door”

Mark shares his experience with how difficult it was for him to get out of an emotionally draining situation and how it may have opened this new door because it freed up space, time and energy

You have to shed that which does not serve you

Jim shares the analogy of running with ankle weights and how it felt when you took the weights off

Mark appreciates Jim’s help and how valuable it is to have a coach and how men feel they should go it alone and how people actually are flattered when you ask for help

Self doubt leads to lower self worth and that can lead to depression and even suicide

The guys share some suicide stats

Mark says he feels like we are living in the most confusing uncertain times in his whole life

Jim brings up the notion of having a “second act” in life when your primary career comes to an end

Mark brings in the context of worldview and how much noise there is in the world. He shares his gratitude for having tools available to him to overcome self doubt and fear

Jim explains the reason for starting the club - a place to go for men to share and support each other

Mark explains the difference between safe spaces and this safe space

Jim talks about how we speak with ourselves so critically and how the media makes all this worse

Mark agrees about how much media and politicians mislead and scare to divide

Jim brings up the discovery around electric cars and the guys add in the solar, wind and climate change hoaxes

Mark talks about how he moves from “I don’t know” to either knowing or dismissing an issue

They wrap up with how important contribution is and Mark ends with how self awareness was triggered and then how he reacted to get better and not bitter

Mark starts reflecting on how we both had recent communications with 30 year olds and how different they operate and communicate than we do.  Generational differences

Jim laughs about his encounter…”return your fucking phone calls…I don’t understand it Mark”

Mark frames the technology aspect of communication.  We had none of the technology…no cell phones, social media, etc..

Jim shares his opinion about how younger people feel we speak too much and they prefer to text

He also believes everyone is trying to avoid conversation and we miss so much when we don’t talk

He predicts that intimate conversation. Will be in much higher demand as technology discourages it (AI)

Mark shares the importance of context and immediate feedback (physical, energy, body language)

He connects the increase in anxiety and depression in younger people to this disconnection

Mark believes he’ll be more self aware of these generational differences

Jim brings his mind map into the discussion and breakdown generational differences

Mark has a current client that consists of people in their late 20’s and 30’s

Jim gets specific about Generation Y characteristics and seminal events (housing crash and Sept 11th). Student debt for 43% of this age group

Mark suggests that every generation has had it’s challenges and that victimhood has become a norm

Jim goes into detail about Generational details

The guys talk about the stark differences between being kid in Florida versus California

They go into detail about the impact of COVID on young people

Wars, open borders and other conflicts

Mark asks Jim if he felt anxious as a kid - not really - we were outdoors

They joke about “playdates” and walking/not walking to school

Mark talks about speaking differently to different generations

Jim says he was more mad at himself for tolerating the behavior of the younger person than the bad behavior

How do you speak accurately without being a dick

Jim cites the difference between “nice” and “kind” - the value of candor

Mark cites evil people who are fake nice and fake compassionate

Can you be too candid?

It’s better to be feared than liked - Mark uses the word respected

They dig into the fear concept

Mark talks about guilt as an accountability tool

Jim talks about football coaches

Mark says he feared his dad - letting him down and/or being held accountable

The guys refer back to their previous guest who claimed to no longer seek his fathers approval

Jim talks about his dad passing

Mark talks about his dad’s generation - 95 years old - His daughter videoed him for 12 hours over 3 years

Jim reminds us how we are the product of our 4 grandparents

They talk about becoming different people over time

Jim talks about his Rugby days and how he struggled to not bring that intense personality home as a dad and husband

They both talked about being intimidating

Jim shares feedback from the high school football coaches he talks to that most young men don’t seem to want to lead

Mark talks about leadership and responsibility…and being the jury foreman

Mark’s take on being responsible for other people’s lives

Both guys talk about not needing to be the leader anymore and Mark says there are 3 types of people

Jim ends with what he likes about the younger generations

Mark shares his concern about the younger generations - anxiety and confusion

For the first time the guys have a guest !

Carl Lane is a childhood friend of Jim’s. They co-captained their high school football team, met at 14 years old and remain great friends today.  Carl went on to play college football at Oregon State and has had great success as an entrepreneur and logistics expert

It’s a great interview and we all had fun

Mark begins with the flywheel foundation

Jim introduces Carl, who also is a listener and fan of the podcast

Carl talks about what he’s doing professionally

Carl trained top performing athletes for 6 years

Jim asks Carl about his views on health and Carl talks about his struggle with depression after retiring from sports.  He shares his desire to lead a healthy life forever - hot yoga and running

Jim asks Carl to talk about his health scare - testicular issues and how he overcame it

Jim opens up a discussion about relationships.  Carl shares his views on relationships and begins with his daughter.  The he cites how important his mom and grandma were in his upbringing

He says he no longer seeks approval from his dad

Jim asks Mark about his daughters and being mom and dad and how important our daughters are

Next up is money - abundant or scarce and how money drives behavior

Carl talks about how we change as we grow - he’s no longer a slave to money

He talks a bit about having no excuses

Jim moves into worldview and the impact of childhood - who raised us and how they raised us

Carl shares stories about his grandparents and parents and brings in his professional athletic connections - uncle, cousin and son

Jim and Carl share how and when they met and how their friendship grew. How important football was in both their lives.  Both guys cite how different coaches influenced their success

Jim and Carl continue to develop the story of their friendship and family growing

Mark cites how we all have the same challenges as middle aged men

Carl wants to be a cheerleader for the IMC

Jim - “what the world needs now more than anything is wisdom”

Jim tells his story about hitting Carl in practice and how the coach lost his shit - Jim had to run laps

Carl shares his story about the first time he went to Jim’s house and the other perspective having been friends with Huey Newton’s son

He states how focusing on what we have in common we can accomplish great things

Carl shares his experience first meeting Jim’s mom and dad

Jim brings the group into CEI and it gets interesting

Each of the guys have different opinions because they have different childhoods and upbringings

Carl talks a bit more about his football experience and how important performance and merit are

Jim brings up spirituality and Carl shares his journey and how different it is today from how he was raised

He felt nobody could answer him when he didn’t see any black people in the Last Supper—“I couldn’t ask about that”

Jim switches to politics and Carl shares how he was thinking in preparation for this interview.  His sides are right and wrong. He doesn’t pick a side.  He waits and listens.  He’s interested in the community and shares some of his service to his various communities

Carl and Jim are in agreement that K-12 is socialism and then they get released into capitalism

Carl reflects on watching Jim develop his craft and his dyslexia and then Carl brings up his stuttering problem. Are these disadvantages or simple last whistle”ly obstacles to over come. It’s a choice

Jim brings up “The last bell and the last whistle”

Carl brings up his recent work with one of the largest high schools in Charlotte

Carl ends with how he really wants to be a part of this club

Mark shares about how important it is to disagree, get along and continue to explore

Mark frames the episode about DEI

Self - Worldview - Politics - Conservative - DEI

Mark reads the definition of DEI

Jim gives his take on Worldview and shares his addiction to YouTube videos

Mark reads the definition of equity and says that life is not fair

Jim says “who gets to decide what is fair…thought police

Jim says we’ve been compromised and it’s a plan to divide us into groups

The only way to ruin a country is from the inside

Jim talks about the 2020 election in the context of George Floyd and BLM and the propaganda around it

Jim shares thoughts from some cop friends about standing down from crimes

Mark talks about propaganda and how it works

Mark says sports and companies don’t function equitability

He shares some of his upbringing

Jim cites his referent to George Floyd and groupthink

Jim talks about how he grew up in a very diverse neighborhood and never saw color as an issue

Mark’s town was all white and his perspective is quite different

He talks about human nature and root cause - the home and the schools

Jim shares some frustration with DEI

Mark goes back to sports and how the liberal manipulates the numbers/ratio

Mark asks what he thinks the end game

The guys tease each other a bit about groupthink

Jim tells a story about his big sisters article about MLK and how disappointed he would be today

Mark states when you divide you can control

Mark reflects on diversity of thought

Jim tells a story about a sportscaster friend and how sports brings people together

Mark tells a Chicago basketball story

Then he tells his aviation story about DEI and how the damage DEI causes is incremental

How DEI will eventually collapse because it doesn’t work

Jim asks Mark if there is any benefit to DEI?

Everyone has been discriminated against and that the market will fix any imbalance

The guys ask if any progress has been made since civil rights

Jim tells his tory about presidential museums - LBJ’s in particular - LBJ’s discussions with MLK recordings and the Malcom X recording - “Don’t trust the foxy white liberals” - 1965

Mark ends with Frederick Douglas - “Leave us alone”

Mark starts with some info about the structure of the IMC “Club”

He transitions to speaking of “Self” and how it all starts there

Mark lists the 5 areas and talks about subtopics radiating out from the center, the self

He asks Jim about what happens when he brings up our flywheel

Im tells our origin story.  “Don’t be frustrated, be fascinated”

Then he opens up about a trip to England to watch a rugby match - the club

Men only clubs allow very different private conversations

Different dynamic for men-only clubs

He talks about being dyslexic and how his way of viewing the world is so different from mine

People like to talk about themselves

Mark tells his story about the Orlando Country Club and the mens locker room

Getting a bunch of guys with similar outlooks together to talk about life - very cool

Jim mentions the importance of being with like-minded people

Jim uses his hand and fingers for the flywheel framework - it all starts with :self:

Mark starts with the self-hyphen phrases beginning with self awareness

Jim reads the definition

Mark talks about self awareness and how victimhood is the opposite

Next is self-evaluation the self accountability - executionMark talks about incremental change and how most people drop New Years resolutions because of impatience waiting for incremental progress

The guys are planning to have an assessment to qualify members

Jim respects self accountable guys

Mark talks about having drinks with Miles - one of his best friends

When you are your best self, you lift up everyone around you

Jim takes on self-identity

Both guys tout the value of authenticity and talk about how scary it can be

It’s reinforcement and reps

Jim brings up self control and talks about having to stop watching YouTube videos and Mark gave up bread and cheese

Mark talks about the value of an agent, a coach, a group in expediting performance improvement with objectivity and candor

The guys discuss control and discipline

Then they discuss self-talk and how important it is to be kind to ourselves and how bad we talk to ourselves

Self worth and self respect

Self gratification gets a few laughs

Mark cites the difference between pleasure and joy and then comments on guilt

Mark talks about his Catholic faith

Mark talks about cutting out the redundancies and creating the assessment for the “Club”

Mark talks about the formation of the resources and process of building the club

Mark starts with his definition of “Agency” and how he has worked as an agent as a recruiter

How personal things got when finding work for someone

Jim brings up real estate agents

Mark share his relationship approach

Jim talks about his agency in the cabinet  business

Jim tells the story of his friend who managed the Seattle Mariners.  How the young pitcher didn’t negotiate his 35 million dollar deal…his agent did

Mark goes back to positioning the framework flywheel and the 5 key areas of life and the self

Mark reads the definition of agency from the dictionary

Mark talks more about how he acted as an agent as a recruiter

Jim talks about artists and athletes who’ve been abused by agents

He shares some stories about his real estate buddies and how valuable they are

Mark explains where that value lies

Jim expresses his perceived value of agents

The guys talk about attorney agency

Mark lays out agency in the 5 key areas of life

Jim disagrees and talks about how coaches shouldn’t get personal

Mark speaks to the difference between Jim and Mark’s positions

Jim speaks to the difference between agency and mentorship

Mark speaks about the difference life experiences between Mark and Jim

Mark brings up how important qualifying clients is and Jim concurs

…there has to b e alignment between agent and client

Mark tells how Jim has acted as his agent and vice versa

Jim thinks friends and family are often too close to be objective

Jim reminds us how important objectivity is

Mark appreciates being helped with his tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt

Jim brings up business agents and how you don’t even need to like him, just respect and trust him

Jim brings up his Patent attorney story

Mark wants strong expertise and integrity

Jim brings the difference between integrity and morality…murderers murder….integrity, not morality

Mark talks about what separates the guys from the competition

Jim brings up self awareness again and how you have to do the work

Mark relates his leadership work with another client and the assessment piece of that process

Progress is made incrementally.  Practice over time.  Accountability

Jim speaks to the value of having someone else to hold you accountable

Mark says the best coaches have coaches

We can’t make people ready but we can help people who are ready

Jim brings up depression.  With our help, optimism, a plan and advice we might help people avoid that darkness

To be your best self while the world changes

Mark relates his career coaching call from earlier and how much of his teaching comes from his failures

Jim engages with the time of year and reassessing life.  He speaks to the importance of a system, a framework

Jim likes his quotes “The only thing worse than no hope is false hope”

The only thing worse than no advice is bad advice”

Mark says it’s what makes the guys unique - wisdom

The guys end in agreement on who to get advice from

They end with imperfect and club (authentic and community)

Mark begins with revisiting the framework of our program. The center of the flywheel and the radiant thinking that moves out from center to the 5 areas of life and todays podcast is about the 5th and final area…Others.  People and relationships

Mark transitions to how events like Covid have made human contact and relationships even more important than ever

Jim tells a story about Christmas dinner with 10 family memebers at which they practice 2 traditions. First they go around the table and everyone makes his “Declaration” for the year 2024 and second “what are you hopeful for”. Jim committed himself to “putting it out there” even though not everyone is going to like it

He hopes we become America first again. Lead with being an American and not a group

He spoke of his Latino family never identifying as Latino first.  They were Americans who were also Latino

Mark agrees and says it’s a joke that we even have to talk about this

Then Mark brings up the Harvard Study Of Men and Happiness Article Here

Relationships was the number one contribution to happiness. Purpose was number 2

Mark shares some context about the study and how rich and accurate the data is after 85 years!

Jim brings our flywheel of life into the discussion.  He explains out “others” category

Mark talks ab out his dad’s family of eleven children and some of the conflict that existed there

Jim relates the Others category to the other 4 and shows again that each area affects the other 4…and it’s all about self awareness

Mark brings up his eldest brother being a pilot, in part, because his father was a pilot

Jim says we’re all the products of 4 people…both sets of grandparents…whether you know them of not

Mark talks about interested his eldest daughter is in learning about her ancestry

Jim claims he’s gotten more interested in his ancestry as he’s gotten older.  Then he talks about his grandparents from Switzerland

Jim then talks about getting to know his father really well after his passing during the settlement of his estate (very interesting). He finishes with the importance of figuring out your own self through your understanding of your ancestry

Mark shares his opinion on self awareness and how it benefits relationship

Jim begins to talk about men and women and shares that everyone is not the same.  Men and women are different

Mark asks Jim how many women friends he has that aren’t the wives of his or his wife’s friends:)

Jim admits that he has no female friends but that his kids do have friends of the opposite sex that they’ve not had sex with…and he feels this is progress. Mark agrees that his kids are the same and that this is mostly good.  Progress. But things like polygamy are not sustainable

Jim revisits his female influencers…his mom was great

Mark shares the same about his mom

Jim shares his discovery at about 10 that he was dyslexic. He talks about being publicly humiliated and his mean ugly older female teacher. He became anti authority and distrusts older ugly women:)

Mark acknowledges that that kind of treatment will leave a scar and likely create an anger over time. Jim agrees and then brings up his young hot teacher who had the opposite effect

The guys laugh at movies from the 80’s and how thy could never be made today. Mark brings up Mel Brooks

Jim shifts the discussion to men and then speaks about the value of good friends…they anchor you and call you on your shit

Mark shares that because he moved when he was 26 that most of his friendships are from 26 on, but they are solid 20 plus year relationships nonetheless.

Jim asks Mark about his grandfathers and Mark shares his recollections, then Jim asks Mark about whether he has different relationships with his daughters and his son. Mark shares that his relationships are quite different

Both guys share insights about their daughters and how we go from teaching them to getting taught by them

Jim shares a story about losing his dad and talking to his friend about losing his. How losing your dad can be empowering as an adult…you get permission to no longer have to impress him

Jim reflects on a discussion with his daughter about how he has evolved as a man, a dad and that he was different when she was a child

Jim concludes with a story about his involvement in a high level 3 day coaching program “Landmark Forum?” Some cool exercises about communicating with your father or mother and discovering hidden agendas and misunderstandings

Episode 30 Money

Mark again leads with the foundational structure of our approach and the 5 key areas of life

Today we talk about money

Jim revisits his exercise of creating “self” phrases and talking with his good friend about self awareness

Then he starts talking about money and how it breaks up relationships

He says there are two types of people - they don’t have money, but act like they do…and those that have money and pretend they don’t

Mark talks about having money and then losing it all.  Happiness was never connected to having or not having money

Why do we get so emotional about money if it doesn’t matter?  Self awareness is the key

Jim revisits how our childhood shapes us and he talks about his upbringing and his parents attitude about money. Good stories about vacations

Jim talks about his neighborhood and how diverse it was.  Poor and rich people

Mark talks about his hometown and the two different sides of the tracks and his parents attitude about money.  Good people are good and bad people are bad…money isn’t a factor

Jim talks about how money is necessary and can bring you pleasure

Mark distinguishes between pleasure and joy. Joy comes from within

The guys talk about earned versus inherited money and the conflicts inherited money creates between siblings and family

Jim tells his story about looking for cheaper gas when he doesn’t need the money.  Childhood habits that he’s stuck with

Mark shares his gas prices story and how our minds can fuck with us regarding money

Jim starts talking about money and relationships

Mark talks about his ex and money and how she clung to money

Mark talks about his hometown and his experience at Notre Dame

Again…inherited versus earned.  Generational wealth

Mark distinguishes between employees with big budgets and entrepreneurs

Both guys talk about their parents views about money

Jim shares his dads various investment accounts left behind upon his passing 

Mark talks about his childhood experiences with money and his attitude about eating out with friends

Jim says “I’m a cheap bastard”

Jim tells his “Jew” story

Mark talks about the difference between men and women and waiting on them as a waiter

Jim shares his opinions on money being used to manipulate and Mark brings up his ex again in the context of manipulation and the kids

Jim starts to connect the impact money has on the other 4 key area of life

Mark shares his story of recovering from losing everything…monetarily

Mark talks about Charles Barkley and Shaq.  Less is more

Jim jumps in with - how much is too much

Mark talks about his kids success and how money complicates things

Jim shares his story of buying his first house and how it had a shed in the back where Jim could make cabinets too.  How we both eat what we kill

How self aware are we about how we let money drive us

Mark opens with a summary of our framework from introduction, to the 5 areas to agency in the final episode of the 7 episode series within season 2

Jim brings up the concept of radiant thinking and the concept of self

Jim says men often find their identity in their careers

The world doesn’t need more knowledge…it needs wisdom and that’s we strive to provide

Mark comes from an angle of enhanced performance.  He shares how his professional advisory work always goes deep personally

How much we make, our title and such can become too much of our identity

Jim suggests that we no longer separate our work from our personal and political lives

And now days you need to be careful about what you say and to whom

Mark appreciates being an entrepreneur because he can dod and say what he wants

He goes on about picking clients based on how reasonable they are - no assholes

Mark asks Jim about the day he decided to become his own boss.  Jim tells a great story about being denied time off…”everything I do I have to run by someone else”

Jim references our flywheel and the 5 spokes of the wheel…our relationship with money

“Everyone is in sales”. Some people recognize that and some don’t

Jim talks about his dad being a government employee and how different that is from corporate

Mark thinks all men contemplate going on their own, but many can’t overcome the fear and how he coaches such men.  He talks about men converting from permanent to consulting

Mark talks about working for stupid people

Jim pokes around with Mark’s career and how he operated as an agent for his candidates

Mark shares how he combines words - consultant, entrepreneur, freelancer…they are all eating what they kill

Jim talks about how our opportunities also depend on what our money situation looks like

Mark talks about deciding to go independent and what that discussion looks like.  How agents act as facilitators of risk assessment

Jim brings up the importance of self awareness and that when things change, you need to recalibrate

Everything is connected and we seek alignment through self awareness

Mark shares his experience with people rolling from contract to perm.  Job security is a myth

Jim brings up self identity regarding one’s career.  How some men identify by what they do

How do you answer the question…”What do you do”. He asks Mark what he says in response

Jim distinguishes between “How do you make money” and “what do you do?”

Both guys share stories about their dads and not talking about their careers or how much they make

Jim asks first…”where are you from”. Isn’t that a better way to start a conversation

Mark shares his reflection about talking about money as a recruiter

Jim shares this in the context of “what are you worth?”

Jim tells a story about attending functions and how helpful it is to NOT lead with what you do

It’s a better conversation when you don’t lead with what you do

Jim asks Mark how he answers the “what do you do” question

Jim talks about introducing people and how he could introduce me to others better than I could

Jim shares how he answers the question “what do you do”. I’m an inventor and what the fuck does that mean?

Mark wraps it up with agency.  Jim says it’s also about improved performance

Mark starts by summarizing the 7 episode series describing what the Imperfect Mens Club is all about.  The inner circle of self and the surrounding 5 key areas of life

Today the guys discuss the topic of worldview

Worldview comes from childhood experience and your adult experiences

Mark identifies as conservative but more so a pragmatist

Jim agrees generally and adds that our focus is mainly men

Jim brings a real life example with physical and mental health

He also brings up culture, religion and other factors that form one’s worldview

Then he brings up politics and the anxiety and uncertainty it brings up

Politics and being either self accountable or not

Mark says we are not holding people accountable which affects our division

Mark shares how he processes information, particularly  information about bad things

He pauses, observes and makes assessments before he concludes

Mark brings up January 6th and wars, crimes, riots and accidents

Jim brings up radiant thinking and the flywheel

Jim reflects on mar’s comment “Jim, it’s always about politics”

Let’s be respectful and try to not to divide even when we disagree

Mark says when he’s talking to someone he disagrees with, he does try and change minds

Discussions of politics need data and objectivity

Now the guys switch to childhood

Jim relates a story about a party he went to and how his first question for a new person is “where did you grow up” to find common ground

Mark tells how his girlfriend and he came from very different environments but the same year and how generational sameness breeds great common ground…movies, sports, songs, phrases and traditions

Jim brings up heritage and nationality as drivers of worldview

Mark brings up subconscious childhood experiences and trauma as drivers of worldview

Mark and Jim both speak about working on mindfulness and inner work

Mark talks about dad and how he practiced his Catholic faith

Mark talks about the bad side of Catholicism and both guys talk about how all large institutions have a small percentage of evil

Mark states the importance of context

Stay rooted in objectivity and facts and be mindful of your subconscious drivers

Jim brings up a conversation with his adult daughter and Mark his

Jim talks about his upbringing as violent and aggressive and how he’s mellowed

Mark gives Jim credit for changing

Mark tells the story of hitting his aunt with an overhead smash when he was 18

Mark brings up his kids and competition

What happens when we disagree - can we remain civil?

Jim says we learn from everyone, which makes us our best selves

Mark goes back at the different stages of life and raising his kids

If you’re paying attention and listening, that’s how you get better

They wrap up with authenticity and being able to be disliked

Without this we lose our dignity

Mark…”I never wanted anyone to kiss my ass”

Our “leaders” are not authentic

Jim talks about intentions and Mark agrees, but adds how important actions are as well

It all comes back to self awareness

Humility encourages self awareness

Mark sets future expectations

The Imperfection is the perfection

Today the guys continue the series on how their fly wheel framework works.  The first spoke on the wheel connected to the SELF is the topic of health, both physical and mental

Mark asks wether people are interested in self care?

Mark brings up holistic health and his daughter the health coach

Jim suggests that if you’re going to help people with health you need to appear credible

Mark talks about the guys being athletes and how that affected their health conscious nature and the importance of mental health

Mark and Jim have friends who don’t seem to be interested in self care

Jim is currently into the carnivore diet and whole foods and values the benefit of good protein

He also says you have to listen to your body and managing injury as we get older

Being physically fit makes you more productive in all other areas of your life.  “I don’t have time” is bullshit

Jim connects all five areas with health

Mark talks about his upbringing and the transition from traditional medicine the current holistic landscape

Neither of the guys are fans of traditional medicine and believe that you can heal yourself with food

Jim says the drug companies and medical industry are marketing companies

Mark speaks about the popularity of prescription drug advertising

Jim talks about rugby and fitness

Jim transitions in to mental health and experimenting with drugs before getting off them finally

Mark shares the way he thinks we should use drugs…but not long term - lifestyle choices

Jim recounts how we met when Jim was struggling with depression some years back

Mark reflects back on

Mark says we’re all fucked up

Self awareness is the start…am I taking car of myself?

Mark talks about how helpful having an agent is in the journey to perform at higher levels

Jim says environment is a big dal too and Mark concurs

We’re a product of the 5 people you spend the most time with

Mark brings up what we watch and listened - You Tube and anxiety

Mark shares how he gets rid of anxiety very easily

Mark wraps it up with some expectation setting on what’s coming next

Higher performance - Mark cites his mother and father

You have to be ready

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Mark begins by summarizing the last episode about the IMC framework and philosophy

He then introduces the concept of “radiant thinking”

Jim shares that he discovered radiant thinking while seeking answers about his dyslexia

Mark reads the definition of radiant thinking

Mark brings up agency and how we function as agents at IMC

Mark speculates that most people don’t self reflect and those that do are triggered by events

He states that true self awareness is a life long journey

Jim talks about the evolution of the IMC

“The imperfection Is The Perfection”

What happens to us does not define us…how we react does

Mark says personal accountability (self-accountability) is the whole deal…the foundation…the juice

Jim brings up self-alignment.  Radiant thinking is alignment

Life is not linear, it’s radiant

Jim shares how he thinks the brain works

Mark talks about communicating in a moment.  Empathetic listening involves self awareness

When serving others, you begins with empathy and self awareness

Jim speaks of living in the present…leading to self control

Fear comes from the past and the future

Mark shares a recruiter training story about projection - the 90/10 rule of self awareness

Jim says people are seeking people with order and control

Mark asks Jim when he became self-aware and Jim identifies as an inventor

He struggled with communication until he discovered his dyslexia and now he leans on new technology to communicate

Mark asks Jim more about how his mind works

Mark talks about how to speak with different people in different circumstances

Women and men think different…and that’s a good thing…the world needs everybody

Mark reflects on a misunderstanding he had with Jim just before the show

Jim talks about using Chat GPT for foundational work

Mark brings up the time he questioned his faith and he recognized how self awareness is a gift

Jim brings up some conversations with his daughter about being a different person as he grew

Conversations don’t need to be right or wrong.  No winner and no loser

The need to be right diminishes over time…or it should

Mark talks about his son’s addiction and recovery and the amazing self awareness that has come into his life

Mark puts the IMC program in the context of self awareness

Jim pulls agency back into the conversation

Most good things come from bad things - Mark Jr’s collapsed lung and recovery

Most people just need a little nudge - that what we do at IMC

Jim says he really appreciates people who can laugh at themselves

Mark jokes about how your kids start turning the tables on you as they become adults

Jim wanted to let his daughter know he’s a different person now - humanizing him

Jim asks Mark…what are your “selves”…he strives for authenticity

Jim ends with self worth and self love and gets a few laughs

Mark begins by setting up what the guys are up to next

The fly wheel of Self Awareness and the foundation of their work

Mark speaks about the Manifesto and upcoming programs in development

Jim goes into some detail about how our wheel works

He explains that we all begin with our self…self awareness, Self accountability…

The guys have both found that in talking with people about our podcast and our direction that many people are in agreement with our philosophy

The center of the wheel and the five areas of focus around the wheel:

Worldview

Relationships

Money

Profession

Health

The imperfection is the perfection

After Jim does a high level summary, the guys go into detail in each of the 5 areas and the center of self

Why are we doing a podcast and what is this wheel all about?

Self awareness is the key to making progress and being successful

Mark talks about experience and the value of mistakes and successes - wisdom

Jim agrees about the importance of self awareness

Mark shares who the program is for and who it’s not for

Why our culture is ripe for self awareness

After committing to being self aware, the next step is self evaluation

Jim brings up the fixing your car analogy

How hard we are on ourselves - self talk

Why having an agent is so helpful - to bring objectivity and help part the clouds

Jim brings up self worth and self accountability

All 5 categories are interconnected

None of this works without self accountability

“Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better”

Finally the expectation of result is a complete self transformation

Mark shares the difference between band aids on symptoms versus addressing root causes

People who are ready to get to the root cause are who we want in the program

Jim asks Mark to talk about his background in recruiting and then shares his own background

Mark explains his experience and how it helps him as a coach

Jim shares how all 5 areas are always impacted by the other 4.  They are all tied together

Mark shares how professional coaching bleeds into all the other areas

Both of us identify as entrepreneurs among other things

Mark talks about learning from the mistakes of others and the value of a good agent

Jim brings up worldview and Mark talks about how one arrives at a worldview

It starts with the adults in our childhood - parents, teachers, coaches, etc…and then reshapes based on our adult political views.  Spirituality also factors in

Mark talks about how noisy the political landscape is and ho he’s tried to speak with people who disagree with him civil and with kindness and generosity…the program addresses this

Next up is money - scarcity versus abundance

Scarcity is driven by fear and pessimism. Money is hard to make, rich people are bad…

Mark says he’s ready to help in part because he’s done his own inner work

The next category is Health - Mental and physical

Jim says guys often keep their emotions inside

Mark says it’s all like exercise.  Show up every day, consistently, in small doses daily

Breathing, meditating, praying and visualization

Results will come later - delayed gratification.  Trust the process and don’t quit

Jim shares how he and Mark together years ago. Depression and seeking a solution

Mark shares his experience with Depression and Jim shares details

Mark say if you commit to the “Self” practices, you can fix almost anything with this holistic approach to root causes

Mark says the next step is an action plan. The “wheel” approach

Mark shares the weakest link in the chain

Being proactive is better than waiting for something bad to happen

The last key area is Relationships

Jim talks about all the different categories in the relationship category

Mark says communication is key.  What you say, when you say it, how you say it and to whom you say it

Jim mentions the impact of birth order on your success

Mark begins to set expectations about what’s next.  A manifesto and a program rolling out between now and the first of 2024

You can take the manifesto and go it on your own, but for people that want an agent, a guide…we can expedite your journey with our agency, our coaching

Jim brings up the assessment process and the idea that we will also continue to put out free resources to help as many people as possible

Mark “we’re collectively all in this together”

Mark opens with the definition of resentment

What it is and why it shows up in our lives

Jim brings our flywheel into the discussion and how many things are still present from our childhood

The guys both agree how important self awareness and personal accountability

Life is not fair

We all resent, but the difference is between those who wallow and those who look for personal accountability

Jim - I’d rather die trying than live in regret

Mark relates his divorce to the topic

Jim asks, how much are we still stuck in the past

Mark jokes about forgiveness in the context of his ex

Jim puts Mark on the spot

Mark admits he is mad at himself to some extent for thinking he could change her

Jim says most people blame and cannot look inside

Mark talks about managing her reengagement and abandonment and how he needs to let go

Mark brings up his mom’s suicide and how he resented that for a sec

Jim says we all resent

Jim resents our politicians for what they done to ruin the country - Worldview

Jim brings up professional resentment and Mark reminds Jim of his story

Jim says he’s more resentful of allowing his boss to get away with it

Resentment and dignity are intertwined

Mark brings back the concept of unfairness and why he speaks up, why he votes

Jim brings back the wheel

Money resent - Mark talks about not hiding money and being taken advantage of

Making decisions an emotional state

Mark resents not firing his attorney and the back story to that

Jim shares his attorney story…that fucking guy…

Mark talks about firing his attorney and then getting sole custody of his kids

Mark talks about his kids resentment of that whole process and everyone in it

Negative emotions processed quickly and moving on with learning is the way to go

Jim brings up listening to a podcast with the author of The Secret - it’s good to get your problems out or they’ll sneak up on you later…regret and resentment

Mark talks about how to process resentment and regret and how some of it stays around and needs further work

Mark talks about accepting your responsibility and how to move on,  Self aware, nope to blame, and create space for some loving thought…move on

Jim speaks to learning what not to do if that bad thing happens again

Mark says you don’t make good decisions from a place of fear

Jim says yes and it’s unfair to blame others in that same spot

Blame gets you nowhere

I’m sorry and I forgive you…unconditionally

Mark talks about apologizing to his son and the time leading up to it

Jim references a Podcast about Putin and how he became who he is

How we become who we are.  Pain and resentment can shape us

Mark says he’s a broken man.  Not an excuse, but an understanding

Jim relates Putin’s judo background to his recent actions

Mark talks bullyinigand the psychology of it

Mark begins with what he believes “agency” is

We all need an agent off and on during our lives

Jim adds to the definition from his perspective

Jim tells a story about his good friend who was a professional baseball manger

The story of a young man signing a $40 million dollar contract and how he didn’t negotiate the contract, his agent did

The agent is not emotionally attached, strictly business

Mark talks about his career as an agent - recruiter

Agents need to be great listeners

Family and friends do not make good agents, they’re too close

Jim talks about another good friend who played in the NFL

Coaches have agents too

Pros and celebrities often need protection from their own families

Great agents can be life changing

Mark and Jim bring the flywheel framework into the discussion - agency touches every spot on the wheel

Jim asks Mark about his recruiting experience and how that works

Mark brings up a more recent client experience

Mark says how valuable questions are in helping someone with a big decision

Vulnerability and fear are driving forces and agents can really help with these

Change makes people uncomfortable

Much of what a good agent does has nothing to do with money

Both of Mark’s daughters, who are coaches, have coaches

Great agents get deep into the personal lives of their clients

Both guys are natural mentors and people come to them for advice all the time

Mark talks about his decision to start his own company and telling his dad

Jim - some of the worst advice came from the people closest to him

Jim distinguishes between experience, knowledge and wisdom

We don’t have the answers, but we can facilitate our clients answering their own questions

Wisdom comes from bad decisions, mistakes and failure

Telling someone that you know what they should do is irresponsible

Mark tells the story about helping his girlfriend’s daughter - changed her life

Agents help create clarity and confidence…and hope

Jim talks about the importance of good tools and people to teach you how to use them

Jim asks Mark what tools he uses as a recruiter

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles and his “Find Your True Purpose” workbook - self assessment

Jim brings up roadmaps and Mark mentions our new partner Jeff and his roadmapping tool

They discuss the areas they can help with - quite a few

Jim brings up AI and it’s uses moving forward

Mark mentions two AI. uses and how important prompts are

Both guys agree everyone needs to look into AI

Mark offers their services

Don’t take criticism from someone who you would not go to for advice

The guys are both dealing with anxiety and flinch at how widespread it is

Mark reads a definition

Then he puts anxiety in the context of our self awareness fly wheel

Mark’s kids all have issues with anxiety and they were all together last weekend

Mark speaks to the sources of anxiety

Jim restates the use of our wheel and The Middle East conflict as a source of anxiety

Jim starts sharing some stories that happened over the weekend at a college football game.  He had two small “run ins” during and after the game

Jim brings up the media

Mark brings up our uncertain future including talk of another world war

Jim says war is what humans do

It’s not a partisan conversation, it’s a collective national position

Mark talks about the covid disaster, immigration, Ukraine, Israel and Hamas

Jim brings in China and Russia

Jim reflects on the good that came after World War 2

We’ve lost all trust in our government and large institutions

Mark says we’re also moving away from God - God fearing people are happier

No higher power increase loneliness and anxiety

Church is as much about community as it is about religion

Isolation is on the rise because of all these things…more anxiety

Jim comes back to his sports stories - college football

We have experience with the 18 to 35 year olds (we both have daughters)

Mark thinks men are being emasculated and this is confusing the kids in this age group

Both guys agree on progress and tradition.  Some changes have been good and some have turned out to be harmful and unproductive

Back to the football game related stories

Nothing good happens when the word “dude” enters the conversation:)

Jim got the stink eye for his “ladies first” comment.  How dare you call me a lady

Mark says it’s too bad we even have to think about this shit

Mark shares his coffee shop experiences with liberals and language

Jim gets hit with a peanut in the back of his head and threw it back and hit the wrong guy in the head (another dude)

Jim thinks young people are angry and anxious and have been brainwashed about our country and certain traditions

When your anxious it’s more likely you’ll get angry

Mark shares his wellness routine including breathing, praying and meditation.  These are all anxiety killers

Jim has decided to be more reflective, empathetic and self aware

Mark inserts his personal accountability stance and Jim agrees

The world doesn’t need more anger, hate or anxiety

The guys are talking about triggers.  We all have them

Knowing what your triggers are makes them easier to handle

This involves self awareness and that takes work

Mark mentions pausing when you get triggered

Triggers in this context are negative

Pausing allows you to regain objectivity

Jim talks about triggers from his childhood and younger years

When you allow yourself to be triggered all kinds of bad things can happen

Jim brings up our flywheel and the 5 areas

Profession - what kind of bosses have you had. Mark cites a LinkedIn post that he commented on where his story was similar but the end was different. Jim talks about the uncertainty and failure that is being and inventor

Money is loaded with triggers.  Scarcity to abundance.  Both our parents and grandparents come from scarcity families. Mark mentions his dad and Jim his mom

Worldview - Trigger land with politics.  Jim brings up the Gaza conflict and his anger for the current administration.  Both guys talk about limiting media intake to avoid getting so triggered

Mark says politicians and media are triggering us on purpose.  Jim says what’s happening now is a religious war and that shapes our worldview. Mark shares a car accident story and how we are triggered by tragedy.

Health - Mental health is where the triggers are.  Mental health needs constant attention. Mark shares his aging process and how it triggers emotions

Relationships - Men and woman..Mark says men are different.  Men do confidence, competition and simple things.  Jim says men are simpler and Jim says woman armor complicated and clever as well

Mark weaves in a story about his ex wife and her triggering strategy.  Jim has a friend in a similar toxic ex-wife relationship and kids

Mark tells part of his ex-wife story…talk about triggers and her manipulation techniques

Jim’s perspective in support of Mark

Mark and Jim are both fascinated with human behavior

Both guys have a good laugh and give their understanding that her bad behavior is driven by anger and sadness

Mark gives some details and they both identify this behavior as projection

Jim tells a story about his Europe trip and his interaction with his wife regarding spending so much time together and how they got along

Mark identifies this as a transformative moment - empty nest

Mark’s ex comes back into the story - a lack of self-awareness

Jim says a lot of people are outwardly shiny but inwardly miserable

Mark says the external stuff is not how you get to happy.  Happy is all internal

Fear based versus love based decisions

Mark brings up gratitude and how long his list is when he thinks about it

Jim ties in humility and how powerful that emotion can be.  How adversity shapes us

Jim brings up AA members and how self accountable they are

Skilled sailors are built on rough seas

Mark’s ex comes back in again - Jim plays psychologist

Jim mentions the difference between knowledge and wisdom

Wisdom is born of experience