Robert Lustig

In this episode, we address the “calories in- calories out” (CICO) model of metabolism and weight regulation and how specific macronutrients (protein, fat, carbohydrates), fiber, and sugar can modify the CICO equation. My guest is Dr. Robert Lustig, M.D., neuroendocrinologist, professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF), and a bestselling author on nutrition and metabolic health. We cover how different types of sugars, specifically fructose, sugars found in liquid form, taste intensity, and other factors impact insulin levels, liver, kidney, and metabolic health. We also explore how fructose in non-fruit sources can be addictive, acting similarly to drugs of abuse, and how sugar alters brain circuits related to food cravings and satisfaction. The discussion then shifts to the role of sugar in childhood and adult obesity, gut health and disease, and mental health. We delve into how the food industry uses refined sugars to create pseudo foods and the implications of these on the brain and body. This episode is replete with actionable information about sugar and metabolism, weight control, brain health, and body composition. It ought to be of interest to anyone seeking to understand how specific food choices impact the immediate and long-term health of the brain and body. For show notes, including referenced articles and additional resources, please visit hubermanlab.com. Thank you to our sponsors AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman Levels: https://levels.link/huberman LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/huberman AeroPress: https://aeropress.com/huberman Momentous: https://livemomentous.com/huberman Timestamps (00:00:00) Dr. Robert Lustig (00:02:02) Sponsors: Eight Sleep, Levels & Aero Press (00:06:41) Calories, Fiber (00:12:15) Calories, Protein & Fat, Trans Fats (00:18:23) Carbohydrate Calories, Glucose vs. Fructose, Fruit, Processed Foods (00:26:43) Fructose, Mitochondria & Metabolic Health (00:31:54) Trans Fats; Food Industry & Language (00:35:33) Sponsor: AG1 (00:37:04) Glucose, Insulin, Muscle (00:42:31) Insulin & Cell Growth vs. Burn; Oxygen & Cell Growth, Cancer (00:51:14) Glucose vs. Fructose, Uric Acid; “Leaky Gut” & Inflammation (01:00:51) Supporting the Gut Microbiome, Fasting (01:04:13) Highly Processed Foods, Sugars; “Price Elasticity” & Food Industry (01:10:28) Sponsor: LMNT (01:11:51) Processed Foods & Added Sugars (01:14:19) Sugars, High-Fructose Corn Syrup (01:18:16) Food Industry & Added Sugar, Personal Responsibility, Public Health (01:30:04) Obesity, Diabetes, “Hidden” Sugars (01:34:57) Diet, Insulin & Sugars (01:38:20) Tools: NOVA Food Classification; Perfact Recommendations (01:43:46) Meat & Metabolic Health, Eggs, Fish (01:46:44) Sources of Omega-3s; Vitamin C & Vitamin D (01:52:37) Tool: Reduce Inflammation; Sugars, Cortisol & Stress (01:59:12) Food Industry, Big Pharma & Government; Statins (02:06:55) Public Health Shifts, Rebellion, Sugar Tax, Hidden Sugars (02:12:58) Real Food Movement, Public School Lunches & Processed Foods (02:18:25) 3 Fat Types & Metabolic Health; Sugar, Alcohol & Stress (02:26:40) Artificial & Non-Caloric Sweeteners, Insulin & Weight Gain (02:34:32) Re-Engineering Ultra-Processed Food (02:38:45) Sugar & Addiction, Caffeine (02:45:18) GLP-1, Semaglutide (Ozempic, Wegovy, Tirzepatide), Risks; Big Pharma (02:57:390 Obesity & Sugar Addiction; Brain Re-Mapping, Insulin & Leptin Resistance (03:03:31) Fructose & Addiction, Personal Responsibility & Tobacco (03:07:27) Food Choices: Fruit, Rice, Tomato Sauce, Bread, Meats, Fermented Foods (03:12:54) Intermittent Fasting, Diet Soda, Food Combinations, Fiber, Food Labels (03:19:14) Improving Health, Advocacy, School Lunches, Hidden Sugars (03:26:55) Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, YouTube Feedback, Sponsors, Momentous, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter Disclaimer

In this episode, Rob Lustig — a researcher, an expert in fructose metabolism, and a former pediatric endocrinologist — discusses what’s wrong with the current food environment, and what we can do to reduce our chances of becoming part of the obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) epidemics. Rob recently earned a Master of Studies in Law because he believes that educating people about sugar from a scientific standpoint is only half the equation: the other half involves changing policy, which he explains in this episode.

We discuss:

• What’s the difference between glucose and fructose? [7:00];
• Do we have biomarkers that can give us some indication of average exposure to fructose over a given period of time? [14:20];
• What’s the difference between ALT and AST? [18:45];
• Inflammation, endothelial function, and uric acid [21:30];
• Is there something that fructose does better than glucose? [23:45];
• For children that undergo a remarkable shift from metabolic health to metabolic derangement, is there a concern that these kids suffer an epigenetic hit that makes it harder for them later in life? [26:15];
• How many times do you have to introduce a savory food vs a sugary food to an infant before they will accept it? [29:30];
• How are alcohol and fructose similar in how they affect the brain? [33:51];
• Advice for parents and kids for creating a sustainable environment that's going to prevent them from running into metabolic problems [40:30];
• Why do some populations have a higher risk for NAFLD? [45:42];
• What causes NAFLD? [48:45];
• Is insulin resistance the result of NAFLD or is NAFLD the result of insulin resistance? [56:00];
• HRV, cortisol, and norepinephrine [1:00:30];
• What are the actual mechanisms that links metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, fatty liver, and type 2 diabetes? [1:03:00];
• Is the food industry still saying that all calories contribute equally to adiposity and insulin resistance? [1:09:00];
• What is the difference between soluble and insoluble fiber and why do you need both? [1:13:00];
• How can we change the food system when 10 companies control almost 90 percent of the Calories we consume in the US? [1:15:00]; and
• More.

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The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drive these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "The UC Wellbeing Channel " [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

The best-selling author and UCSF endocrinologist Dr. Robert Lustig explores how industry has contributed to a culture of addiction, depression and chronic disease. Always provocative, Lustig reveals the science that drives these states of mind and offers solutions we can use. Series: "Great Minds Gather Here" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 32572]

Dr. Robert Lustig discusses how the conditions of the present, both with regard for the activity level of individuals and the ubiquity of processed foods, have generated a perfect storm for the proliferation of obesity. Series: "Wellbeing " [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 31248]

Dr. Robert Lustig discusses how the conditions of the present, both with regard for the activity level of individuals and the ubiquity of processed foods, have generated a perfect storm for the proliferation of obesity. Series: "Wellbeing " [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 31248]

Millions have watched Dr. Robert Lustig’s YouTube videos on the role sugar plays in obesity. In this compilation of the popular YouTube series “The Skinny on Obesity,” Dr. Lustig and his UCSF colleagues dig deeper into the root causes of the obesity epidemic. Discover why what we eat is as important as how much we eat. Understand the effects of stress on obesity rates, and why some predict that the next generation will die younger than the current one due to obesity and the many health problems it causes. Series: "The Skinny on Obesity" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 25717]

Millions have watched Dr. Robert Lustig’s YouTube videos on the role sugar plays in obesity. In this compilation of the popular YouTube series “The Skinny on Obesity,” Dr. Lustig and his UCSF colleagues dig deeper into the root causes of the obesity epidemic. Discover why what we eat is as important as how much we eat. Understand the effects of stress on obesity rates, and why some predict that the next generation will die younger than the current one due to obesity and the many health problems it causes. Series: "The Skinny on Obesity" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 25717]

Dr. Robert Lustig, UCSF Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, updates his very popular video “Sugar: The Bitter Truth.” He argues that sugar and processed foods are driving the obesity epidemic, which in turn affects our endocrine system. Series: "Mini Medical School for the Public" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 25641]

Dr. Robert Lustig, UCSF Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, updates his very popular video “Sugar: The Bitter Truth.” He argues that sugar and processed foods are driving the obesity epidemic, which in turn affects our endocrine system. Series: "Mini Medical School for the Public" [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 25641]