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This episode is brought to you by DX—a platform for measuring and improving developer productivity.

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Dr. Nicole Forsgren is a developer productivity and DevOps expert who works with engineering organizations to make work better. Best known as co-author of the Shingo Publication Award-winning book Accelerate and the DevOps Handbook, 2nd edition and author of the State of DevOps Reports, she has helped some of the biggest companies in the world transform their culture, processes, tech, and architecture. Nicole is currently a Partner at Microsoft Research, leading developer productivity research and strategy, and a technical founder/CEO with a successful exit to Google. In a previous life, she was a software engineer, sysadmin, hardware performance engineer, and professor. She has published several peer-reviewed journal papers, has been awarded public and private research grants (funders include NASA and the NSF), and has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Computerworld, and InformationWeek. In today’s podcast, we discuss:

• Two frameworks for measuring developer productivity: DORA and SPACE

• Benchmarks for what good and great look like

• Common mistakes to avoid when measuring developer productivity

• Resources and tools for improving your metrics

• Signs your developer experience needs attention

• How to improve your developer experience

• Nicole’s Four-Box framework for thinking about data and relationships

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer-productivity-nicole-forsgren-microsoft-research-github-goo/#transcript

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Where to find Nicole Forsgren:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/nicolefv

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolefv/

• Website: https://nicolefv.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nicole’s background

(07:55) Unpacking the terms “developer productivity,” “developer experience,” and “DevOps”

(10:06) How to move faster and improve practices across the board

(13:43) The DORA framework

(18:54) Benchmarks for success

(22:33) Why company size doesn’t matter 

(24:54) How to improve DevOps capabilities by working backward

(29:23) The SPACE framework and choosing metrics

(32:51) How SPACE and DORA work together

(35:39) Measuring satisfaction

(37:52) Resources and tools for optimizing metrics

(41:29) Nicole’s current book project

(45:43) Common pitfalls companies run into when rolling out developer productivity/optimizations

(47:42) How the DevOps space has progressed

(50:07) The impact of AI on the developer experience and productivity

(54:04) First steps to take if you’re trying to improve the developer experience

(55:15) Why Google is an example of a company implementing DevOps solutions well

(56:11) The importance of clear communication

(57:32) Nicole’s Four-Box framework

(1:05:15) Advice on making decisions 

(1:08:56) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Chef: https://www.chef.io/

• DORA: https://dora.dev/

• GitHub: https://github.com/

• Microsoft Research: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/

• What is DORA?: https://devops.com/what-is-dora-and-why-you-should-care/

• Dustin Smith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustin-smith-b0525458/

• Nathen Harvey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathen/

• What is CI/CD?: https://about.gitlab.com/topics/ci-cd/

• Trunk-based development: https://cloud.google.com/architecture/devops/devops-tech-trunk-based-development

• DORA DevOps Quick Check: https://dora.dev/quickcheck/

• Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations: https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339

• The SPACE of Developer Productivity: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3454124

• DevOps Metrics: Nicole Forsgren and Mik Kersten: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3182626

• How to Measure Anything: Finding the Value of Intangibles in Business: https://www.amazon.com/How-Measure-Anything-Intangibles-Business/dp/1118539273/

• GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot

• Tabnine: https://www.tabnine.com/the-leading-ai-assistant-for-software-development

• Nicole’s Decision-Making Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wItAODkhZ-zKnnFbyDERCd8Hq2NQ03WPvCfigBQ5vpc/edit?usp=sharing

• How to do linear regression and correlation analysis: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linear-regression-and-correlation-analysis

• Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The difference and why it matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-difference-matters/dp/1781256179/

• Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-Life-Well-Lived-Joyful/dp/1101875321

• Ender’s Game: https://www.amazon.com/Enders-Game-Ender-Quintet-1/dp/1250773024/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0

• Suits on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/70195800

• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso

• Never Have I Ever on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80179190

• Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/

• COSRX face masks: https://www.amazon.com/COSRX-Advanced-Secretion-Hydrating-Moisturizing/dp/B08JSL9W6K/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Sidebar—Catalyze your career with a Personal Board of Directors | Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

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Noah Weiss is Chief Product Officer at Slack, where he leads all aspects of the product organization, including the self-service SMB business, the team that launched huddles and clips, and the search and machine-learning teams. Prior to Slack, Noah served as SVP of Product at Foursquare. He started his career at Google, leading the structured data search team and working on display ads. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• The top 10 traits of great PMs

• How “complaint storms” helped Slack teams foster empathy

• How Slack’s product team is approaching AI

• “Comprehension desirability” and other key factors leading to Slack’s success

• Why you should be customer-aware but not customer-obsessed

• Important areas of growth for both new PMs and senior PMs

Curious to learn more about Slack? You can try Slack Pro and get 50% off using this link.

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-10-traits-of-great-pms-how-ai-will-impact-your-product-and-slacks-product-development-process/

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Where to find Noah Weiss:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/noah_weiss

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahw/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Noah’s background

(04:22) Noah’s advice on new parenthood

(07:23) Lessons learned from leading product at Foursquare

(11:33) Advice for working with strongly opinionated founders

(14:14) Thinking of involvement on a U-shaped curve

(16:53) Principles at Slack

(19:32) Implementing ML, AI, and LLMs in meaningful ways

(25:11) How Slack structures AI teams

(26:59) Complaint storms and how they help foster empathy

(30:01) Slack’s approach to prioritization 

(32:26) How delight is baked into the DNA of Slack

(34:41) How Slack thinks about competition 

(38:04) Building a culture that takes big bets

(41:40) Rituals at Slack

(44:51) How Slack unlocked new levers of growth and revived their self-serve business

(52:01) Slack’s early success and the factors that made them successful 

(58:08) Slack’s pilot programs for testing new features

(1:02:03) Noah’s famous blog post: “The 10 Traits of Great Product Managers”

(1:10:15) Book recommendations to improve your writing

(1:12:30) Managing up and the importance of data fluency

(1:14:54) The most important skills to improve as an early-career PM and as a senior PM

(1:17:16) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Emily Oster: https://emilyoster.net/

• Dennis Crowley: https://denniscrowley.com/

• Stewart Butterfield on Twitter: https://twitter.com/stewart

• Don’t Make Me Think, Revisited: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Think-Revisited-Usability/dp/0321965515

• Gustav Söderström on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the-science-of-product-taking-risky-bets-and-how-ai-is-already-impacting-the-future-of-music-gustav-soderstrom-co-president-cpo-and-cto-at-spotify/

• Seth Godin: https://seths.blog/

• Noah’s blog post on the 10 traits of great PMs: https://medium.com/@noah_weiss/10-traits-of-great-pms-a7776cd3d9cd

• Five Dangerous Myths about Product Management: https://medium.com/@noah_weiss/five-dangerous-myths-about-product-management-d1d852ed02a2

• Paul Graham: http://paulgraham.com/

• Ben Horowitz on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bhorowitz

• On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft: https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Memoir-Craft-Stephen-King/dp/1982159375

• On Writing Well: The Classic Guide to Writing Nonfiction: https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Well-Classic-Guide-Nonfiction/dp/0060891548

• Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: And Other Tough-Love Truths to Make You a Better Writer: https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Tough-Love/dp/1936891492

• Several Short Sentences About Writing: https://www.amazon.com/Several-Short-Sentences-About-Writing/dp/0307279413

• Paige Costello on Twitter: https://twitter.com/paigenow

• Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Selection-Inside-Apples-Process/dp/1250194466

• The Innovator’s Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail: https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Management-Innovation/dp/1633691780

• Radical Candor: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kim-Scott/dp/1250258405

• Leadership: In Turbulent Times: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Turbulent-Doris-Kearns-Goodwin/dp/1476795924

• Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession

• The Bear on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/the-bear-05eb6a8e-90ed-4947-8c0b-e6536cbddd5f

• Nanit: https://www.nanit.com/

• Snoo: https://www.happiestbaby.com/products/snoo-smart-bassinet

• Uppababy: https://uppababy.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made | Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Nikhyl Singhal is VP of Product at Meta, overseeing teams building messaging, groups, stories, and the main Facebook feed. Before that, he served as the Chief Product Officer at Credit Karma and held various leadership roles at Google, leading teams on Google Photos and Google Hangouts. Nikhyl was also co-founder of three startups, including SayNow and Cast Iron Systems, which were acquired by Google and IBM, respectively. Alongside his successful career, he is passionate about coaching and mentoring, sharing his knowledge through the Skip podcast, newsletter and CPO community. In this episode, we discuss:

• Finding your North Star and building a long and meaningful career

• Why your superpower may actually be holding you back

• Wisdom for aspiring product managers in the early stages of their career

• Reasons you aren’t getting promoted, and advice on what to change

• How to avoid short-term thinking early in your career and how to become a better manager long-term

• Signs you work at an “ex-growth” company and that it’s time to leave

• Signs the IC path is a reasonable pursuit

• The importance of finding a community

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career-nikhyl-singhal-meta-google/#transcript

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Where to find Nikhyl Singhal:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/nikhyl

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhyl/

• Newsletter: https://theskip.substack.com/

• Podcast: https://www.skip.community/

• Skip CPO Community: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community-for-cpos/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nikhyl’s background

(04:37) Nikhyl’s mentoring approach during critical periods of change

(07:07) The power of long-term career planning

(10:36) The value of gaining varied experiences rather than merely collecting logos on your resume

(12:52) The unique benefits of working at a “MAGMA” company

(14:50) Ex-growth companies and the impact of 0% interest rates

(20:19) Signs your company may be struggling to find the right product-market fit

(21:32) When you should stay at an ex-growth company

(22:34) Early career advice for product managers

(25:25) Mid-career strategies for promotion

(29:47) Summarizing the 4 reasons you may not be getting promoted

(30:15) The value of authentic feedback

(33:29) Tactical tips for getting better feedback

(34:46) Addressing management challenges in tech

(39:50) Opportunities for those who prefer the IC path

(45:25) How to become a better manager through community building

(47:40) Nikhyl’s community, The Skip

(51:27) Lenny’s Slack community

(52:54) Late-career advice and identifying skills that need reshaping

(57:07) Why it’s so important to listen to contradictory feedback

(59:45) Nikhyl’s “superpower” and “shadow”

(1:02:20) Mental health challenges and the third act of your career

(1:08:44) Examples of North Star metrics in the third act of your career

(1:12:20) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Annie Pearl on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/behind-the-scenes-of-calendlys-rapid-growth-annie-pearl-cpo/

• The Skip podcast episode about ex-growth companies: https://www.skip.community/should-i-join-or-leave-an-x-hypergrowth-company/

• Jules Walter on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your-career-jules-walter-youtube-slack/

• Skip Community for CPOs on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community-for-cpos/

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986/

• Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting Out of the Box: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-Deception-Getting-Out-Box/dp/B07H3G1KCN

• Rise on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/rise/6Yv1uRnw2uAJ

• Arc browser: https://arc.net/

• Josh Miller (CEO of The Browser Company) on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look-at-how-the-browser-company-builds-product-josh-miller-ceo/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

This Week in Startups is presented by:

LinkedIn Jobs - Post your first job for free at https://linkedin.com/twist

Hampton Join Hampton's community of high-growth founders today at https://joinhampton.com/twist

Meowtel - Get $25 off your first booking with code TWIST25 at https://meowtel.com

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Today's Show:

Jack Krawczyk, the head Google’s Bard team, chats with Jason about Bard’s capabilities and Google’s plan for monetization. Following a few demonstrations of the AI chatbot (43:32), Jason wraps the episode with some thoughts on the series finale of HBO’s Succession (01:01:45)

Follow Jack: https://twitter.com/JackK

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Time stamps:

(00:00) Jack Krawczyk joins Jason

(4:58) Discussing the responsible release of products

(7:43) The delicate balance of choosing to release or hold

(10:24) LinkedIn Jobs - Post your first job for free at https://linkedin.com/twist

(11:57) Addressing concerns about the usage of creators' content

(13:42) Unpacking the process of vetting new features and the purpose of Google's Red Team

(18:39) Integrating tools and features into the framework of Bard

(20:51) Upholding core values in the incorporation of tools

(23:58) Hampton - Join Hampton's community of high-growth founders today at https://joinhampton.com/twist

(25:23) The impact of Bard's coding capabilities on developers

(29:36) Gauging the distance from non-developers writing meaningful code

(31:11) The business model behind Google Bard

(34:18) Meowtel - Get $25 off your first booking with code TWIST25 at https://meowtel.com

(36:44) The potential paths ahead

(39:30) Google's vision for plugins and opportunities for startups

(43:32) Jack demos Google Bard

(55:52) Reflecting on the pace of AI

(01:01:45) Breaking down HBO's Succession and why it's a must-watch

*

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Great recent interviews: Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt

Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis

Follow Jason:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jason

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis

Follow TWiST:

Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin

Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast

Drive. Docs. Chrome. Maps. Gmail. Android. What do these products have in common? Of course, they’re all Google, but what you may not know is that they all came to fruition under the management of the same person: Sundar Pichai. This track record in product development ultimately landed Sundar the CEO role at one of the biggest, most innovative companies in the world.  

This week on How I Built This Lab, Sundar reflects on the unique journey that led him to Google, and the values that inspire and drive his leadership today. He and Guy also discuss Google’s recent advances in artificial intelligence, and how the company is reimagining the workplace as offices across the globe reopen.

This episode was produced by Carla Esteves, with music by Ramtin Arablouei.

Edited by John Isabella.

Our audio engineer was Neal Rauch.

You can follow HIBT on Twitter & Instagram, and email us at hibt@id.wondery.com.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Kanter, who heads up the Justice Department’s antitrust division, believes that antitrust laws are critical for innovation — from ad tech to A.I. The assistant attorney general is bringing a new philosophy to enforcing those laws. So, how is his new approach to protecting competition playing out?

Plus: Can you guess whether that was a bot, or not?

On today’s episode:

• Jonathan Kanter is the assistant attorney general for the Justice Department’s antitrust division.

Additional reading:

• Jonathan Kanter has long been a critic of big tech.
• The Justice Department has accused Google of abusing a monopoly over online advertising.

Tech companies including Google, Microsoft and IBM are all working on plans for a commercially viable quantum computer. They say that these machines will be able to solve climate change, help develop new pharmaceutical drugs and transform our economy. But harnessing quantum physics requires overcoming massive challenges. 

As researchers tinker away on uber-sensitive, ultra-cold quantum computers and investors become increasingly interested in the potential commercial applications – some people in the quantum computing world aren’t buying the hype.

In this episode of Tech Tonic, FT innovation editor John Thornhill travels to the West Coast to visit Julie Love and Krysta Svore, both of Microsoft’s quantum computing programme, and tours Google’s quantum computing lab with engineer Erik Lucero. We hear from Bessemer Venture Partners’ investor David Cowan, and FT artificial intelligence editor Madhumita Murgia talks to long-time quantum computing researcher Sankar Das Sarma.

Presented by Madhumita Murgia and John Thornhill, produced by Josh Gabert-Doyon and Edwin Lane. Executive producer is Manuela Saragosa. Sound design by Breen Turner and Samantha Giovinco. The FT’s head of audio is Cheryl Brumley.

We're keen to hear more from our listeners about this show and want to know what you'd like to hear more of, so we're running a survey which you can find at ft.com/techtonicsurvey. It takes about 10 minutes to complete and you will be in with a chance to win a pair of Bose QuietComfort Earbuds.

Read a transcript of this episode on FT.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What the Big Tech meltdown can teach all workers.

It may seem like the rise of artificial intelligence, and increasingly powerful large language models you may have heard of, is moving really fast… and it IS. 

But what’s coming next is when we enter synthetic relationships with AI that could come to feel just as real and important as our human relationships... And perhaps even more so. 

In this episode of Your Undivided Attention, Tristan and Aza reach beyond the moment to talk about this powerful new AI, and the new paradigm of humanity and computation we’re about to enter. 

This is a structural revolution that affects way more than text, art, or even Google search. There are huge benefits to humanity, and we’ll discuss some of those. But we also see that as companies race to develop the best synthetic relationships, we are setting ourselves up for a new generation of harms made exponentially worse by AI’s power to predict, mimic and persuade.

It’s obvious we need ways to steward these tools ethically. So Tristan and Aza also share their ideas for creating a framework for AIs that will help humans become MORE humane, not less.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA 

Cybernetics: or, Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine by Norbert Wiener

A classic and influential work that laid the theoretical foundations for information theory

New Chatbots Could Change the World. Can You Trust Them?

The New York Times addresses misinformation and how Siri, Google Search, online marketing and your child’s homework will never be the same

Out of One, Many: Using Language Models to Simulate Human Samples by Lisa P. Argyle, Ethan C. Busby, Nancy Fulda, Joshua Gubler, Christopher Rytting, David Wingate

This paper proposes and explores the possibility that language models can be studied as effective proxies for specific human sub-populations in social science research

Earth Species Project

Earth Species Project, co-founded by Aza Raskin, is a non-profit dedicated to using artificial intelligence to decode non-human communication

Her (2013)

A science-fiction romantic drama film written, directed, and co-produced by Spike Jonze

What A Chatty Monkey May Tell Us About Learning To Talk

NPR explores the fascinating world of gelada monkeys and the way they communicate

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

How Political Language is Engineered with Drew Westen & Frank Luntz

What is Humane Technology?

Down the Rabbit Hole by Design with Guillaume Chaslot
 

Molly and Jason discuss Google’s announcing plans to roll out its ChatGPT competitor, called Bard, in the coming weeks. (1:10) Then, they discuss Adam Neumann’s explanation of Flow’s business before wrapping up with a SOTD, Jobber. (18:59)

(0:00) M+J kick off the show

(1:10) Breaking down Google’s announcement of Bard

(9:29) Coda - Startups can get $1000 credit by visiting https://coda.io/twist

(11:00) Neeva’s approach to search

(17:33) Linode - Apply to Linode's Rise program for up to six figures in discounts at https://linode.com/twist

(18:59) An update on Adam Neumann’s Flow

(36:31) Meowtel - Save $25 on your first booking with code TWIST25 at https://meowtel.com/

(37:53) SOTD: Jobber raises $100M

(46:17) Microsoft officially announces the integration of ChatGPT into Bing

FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis

FOLLOW Molly: https://twitter.com/mollywood