Hi, I'm Bob Safian, and I want to tell you about a new podcast called Search Engine hosted by PJ Vote. Each week, he and his team answer questions about business, tech, and society that are on everyone's minds but are too often ignored. The kinds of questions that if you ask them at a dinner party would completely derail conversation. Like, who's behind those scammy text messages we've all been getting? Why are drug dealers putting fentanyl in everything?
And why don't we have flying cars yet? Listen to and follow search engine with PJ Vote wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi listeners, I want to tell you about another podcast. It's called Planet Money. The Planet Money podcast helps you understand the economy. They find the people at the heart of every story to show you how money affects our world. Planet Money explains every economic concept imaginable, from inflation and disinflation to how manatees get addicted to fossil fuel. Listen to Planet Money from NPR wherever you're listening to us.
A really small act, it may seem very small to you, creates this ripple effect of winning, in which other people start to do well, great things start to come out of it. By accident, we realized that the machines we have in our company could address a global urgent issue, and we thought, what other big problem can we address?
And I realized something. Not only was this the right thing to do, it was going to be damn good business. If you are trying to solve big problems, the work will never end.
Hi, everyone. I'm Bob Safian, former editor of Fast Company, founder of The Flux Group and your host. You're about to hear a special episode of Masters of Scale that illuminates the power and the impact in attempting the impossible.
When scaling a business, we often see impossible challenges in our path. Many wise operators opt to gracefully sidestep those potholes to find a way around them so they can more rapidly get up to speed. And that makes sense. As Reid Hoffman says, entrepreneurship is like jumping off a cliff and building a plane on the way down. You only have so much time to generate upward momentum.
But what happens if you decide to go right at a huge challenge? The risk is super high, yet if you succeed, the rewards can be phenomenal. We're going to visit with four entrepreneurs who are taking on not just challenging problems, but what you might call unsolvable ones. Challenge is so big and intractable, they're arguably insurmountable.
How these leaders are attacking these unsolvable problems provides lessons for every business person. The four guests highlighted in today's episode appeared on stage at the Masters of Scale Summit to talk about climate change, about societal inequity, and about the lack of clean water for billions of people across the globe. The biggest problems in the world can seem insurmountable.
But as these stories show, by embracing work that will never be done, we can achieve unexpected and outside results for our organizations, for ourselves, and for humanity.
This is the unsolvable problem, four keys to embracing work that is never done.
Number one, find your why. Our first lesson comes from Biarchy Ingles. He's a Danish architect and founder of the Biarchy Ingles Group. I first met him in 2010 when Fast Company put him on the cover as one of our Masters of Design. The next year, the Wall Street Journal named him an Innovator of the Year for Architecture, and in 2016, Thai Magazine named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world.
Biarchy has a passion that has expanded from architecture to larger systemic challenges. It's a passion to up-level the human experience through design. Form-guining, that's the word for design in Danish. And as the word suggests, it literally means form-giving because when you design, you are giving form to that which has not yet been given form. In other words, you're giving form to the future.
The first party we did two decades ago was the Copenhagen Harbour Bath that extended the life of the city into the water around it. And on the opening day, I realized that a clean port is not only nice for the fish, it's actually amazing for the citizens of Copenhagen who now no longer have to drive. For hours to get to the Copenhagen equivalent of the Hamptons, they can actually jump in the port in the middle of the city.
And we thought, maybe this is part of something bigger. We called it hedonistic sustainability. Hedonistic sustainability. It was a catchy, clever idea. It was also a thread toward Biarchy's why. When the pandemic descended, Biarchy and his team responded by repurposing a tool they used on a daily basis.
By accident, we realized that the machines we have in our company could address a global urgent issue. Our 3D printers and the materials we make architecture models from could be used to making emergency medical equipment like face shields and ventilator tubes. And we managed to manufacture 25,000 of these items and give them to the local healthcare providers until the supply chain could catch up.
And we thought, what other big problem can we address? The experience awakened Bjarke's why. The desire to utilize design to combat the pressing issues of our world. The issue he and his team zeroed in on was climate change. We asked ourselves, what if we actually use our methodology as architects and planners to make a tangible, actionable plan for the planet?
At times, the sheer volume of complications in addressing climate change can make it seem overwhelming. But Bianchi knew his why, and as he began to pull at the frayed ends of our suffering planet, he started to uncover a path to solutions that the world could tackle one thread at a time.
We got in contact with Merck, the shipping company, and every fifth container in the world has the seven-pointed star on it. So Merck has committed to converting their entire fleet to being powered by a renewable-sourced methanol.
So essentially using sun and wind to create a methanol. And they've engaged us to work with them to turn all of their container ports into green growth hubs, where the abundance of renewable energy can convert not just their fleet, but the entire port, the entire city, and potentially the entire country that they are part of into renewable energy.
So, starting with the port in Tangier, and we're also working on Akaba and Savannah, essentially every port that they touch becomes a catalyst for the energy transition of that particular region. So, not only are they turning themselves carbon neutral, but really accelerating the energy transition in the entire world. Of course, I'm not blind to the fact that it is somewhat arrogant or megalomaniacal to even dare to start on a plan for the planet.
But I think that the impact it has on ourselves and on masks could actually also benefit others. Bianchi's mission is daring to say the least. But as Bianchi's story shows, once you find your why and focus on where it leads, even the seemingly insurmountable feat can become more manageable, revealing tangible, actionable solutions.
Number two, identify your allies. Today's second lesson comes from Aurora James, founder of Fashion Label Brother Vellies, dedicated to promoting traditional African design, and founder of non-profit 15% pledge, which supports Black-owned businesses in retail.
Aurora posits that when facing daunting challenges, you need to power your efforts with the right support system, because we all need allies to turn intention into action and to scale our impact. How could you be an ally? I've been studying this question for the last few years, and I'd love to tell you what I've learned. My journey began with a shoe.
In South Africa, the shoe is known as a veldscoon and also locally as a valley. And it started out as just being pieces of leather wrapped around the foot from animals that were hunted. It eventually got its own rubber sole, fashioned directly from the neighborhood rubber tree. When British people came to Southern Africa, they fell in love with the shoe, so much so that they brought it back up to the UK. They renamed it a desert boot, and they launched a company that you and I know today as Clark's.
Clearly, this is not allyship. Over the past 100 years, Americans have donated tons and tons of clothes to small communities all across Africa. And this isn't actually allyship either.
Because instead of helping support those communities, it actually had the opposite effect. 70% of small workshops and apparel factories around the continent of Africa actually closed down, due in large part to these American donations.
Aurora saw a disconnect between the desired aid underserved communities and the understanding of what true ally ship required. She was determined to disrupt the way the system operated and decided to go all in on being an ally, no matter the cost. I wanted to take everything I had, literally my entire life savings, which was actually only $3,500 at the time.
and launch my brand, Brother Villies, with the primary goal of including the world's artisans in the luxury fashion conversation and helping to preserve their jobs. For me, it wasn't just about launching a fashion brand. It was about setting out to actually be an ally and using my own individual privilege to create a pipeline of income for the descendants of those who had originally invented this shoe.
They started quickly uncovering some of the most incredible artisans, making things so beautiful, you wouldn't believe it. And they were virtually undiscovered.
A few years on, I ended up meeting my own fashion fairy godmother. Her name was Anna Winter. And luckily for me, Anna took a great liking to what I was doing. And she became my ally. In 2015, I went on to win her CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund, which helped propel my business so much more forward and allowed me to continue my own allyship by employing countless artisans across the world.
When Meghan Markle chose to wear our Mexican heroiches, not only did we quickly sell out, but tons of tiny workshops all across Mexico that were making the same style quickly sold out too. So with a simple shoe choice, Meghan actually became an ally. Brother Vellies as a company was starting to become the ally of many.
Progress against an insurmountable obstacle is not the same thing as eliminating it. Despite her contributions to underserved communities, Aurora discovered that she needed to pivot further in the face of adversity.
Everything changed for me on May 25th, 2020. When news and video footage started circulating of Mr. Floyd's senseless murder, in a lot of ways it felt like a grief that was almost too heavy to bear. I'm sure a lot of you in the audience here thought, wow, I would love to do something to help. In fact, some of you here, as well as a lot of other CEOs and founders, actually called me that week, trying to figure out how your company should respond
to the sudden racial reckoning. And I knew this time things were going to have to be different. We would no longer be able to work with just DEI policies or one-time donations. We needed innovations, not just donations. We needed actions, not just words. What we needed was true allyship.
Aurora believed it was no longer sufficient for industry leaders to simply voice their solidarity with black-owned companies and business owners. The actions taken by allies needed to be tangible. The idea for me was simple.
Black people are almost 15% of the population. Major retailers should commit 15% of their shelf space to black-owned businesses. And I thought, if major retailers started committing to the idea of the 15% pledge, Silicon Valley might actually be excited to take notice and start allocating more than just their traditional 1% of funds to black entrepreneurs.
I thought about how much money would start being funneled back into the black community. And I realized something. Not only was this the right thing to do, it was going to be damn good business. Aurora went public with her idea immediately, activating her influential social media following. I tagged a bunch of the retailers that I wanted to come to the table and have a conversation. Guys, this was not a calling out. This was a calling in.
This was an opportunity. The next morning was a Sunday, and I woke up to a flurry of inbound messages. I stayed up that night overnight with my web designer so that we could launch a petition on Monday at noon. By Tuesday, that same petition had almost 100,000 signatures. By Wednesday, I registered to become a nonprofit. By Thursday, CNN and the New York Times were calling. And by day 10, Sephora became the first major corporation to commit to the 15% pledge.
Right then and there, they had become an ally. In the days and weeks that followed, my message was simple. We are all guilty. But ultimately, it's the system that we've created that is to blame. This is our unique opportunity to start rebuilding parts of that system together and in true allyship.
What kind of impact can allyship produce when addressing an unsolvable problem? Aurora shared some stats. Since launching the 15% pledge, we've placed over 620 black-owned brands onto the shelves of our pledge shakers. And let me tell you, it's working.
In partnership with the 29 major corporations that have committed to the 15% pledge, we are now in the process of allocating over $10 billion a year to black entrepreneurs. $10 billion. We've partnered with everyone from McKinsey to Google to Yelp to American Vogue to help harness their unique skills as allies to actually propel black businesses forward.
I've learned a lot over the past few years about what it means to be an ally. I've learned that allyship takes action. I've learned that it takes radical accountability. All you need to do is start asking questions, starting with, how can I be an ally? Hi, listener. It's Gabriela Leveret, director of marketing at Wait What, the company behind Masters of Scale.
In marketing, we know how important it is to get things right the first time, whether it's a campaign message, a social media post, or an email to a client. Communication is everything, and if the message isn't clear, it can cost us time, or worse, momentum.
But why I'm such a fan of Grammarly. It's not just about fixing typos. It's an AI writing partner that helps my team communicate more effectively. It actually improves the substance of my writing. If I'm drafting a social media post or putting together an important pitch deck, Grammarly helps me identify exactly what's missing, whether it's a call to action or tightening up a headline. And the best part, it works where I work. From docs to social media platforms, so I don't have to switch between apps or waste time copying and pasting.
It's been a real game changer for us. And in fact, teams can cut time editing by 66%. It's helped us maintain brand consistency across all of our content. That means more time to focus on creativity and strategy where we can make the biggest impact. Join 70,000 teams and 30 million people who trust Grammarly to get results on the first try. Go to Grammarly.com slash enterprise to learn more Grammarly enterprise ready AI.
We were losing people. It was hard to navigate to some of the content that our users were interested in, which for Masters of Scale is our episodic content. A lot of our changes were directly informed by the data that we saw on Microsoft Clarity, specifically using the heat maps and using co-pilot to analyze that data, which saved me hours of work, which I am so grateful for.
I'm Kelsey Seisen, senior graphic and web designer. I'm Nikki Williams, director of digital marketing and video. Kelsey and Nikki are part of the team behind Masters of Scale. They worked on our website rebrand, a big undertaking made much easier with the help of Microsoft Clarity.
Our users had an average scroll depth of 60%. They weren't scrolling down, but they weren't seeing the entirety of the page. I was like, oh gosh, we got to change that. The user data from Microsoft Clarity helped find a solution.
We developed a hero carousel, which allowed people not to just see the latest episode, but it would auto scroll to other kinds of contents. We wanted to make sure that it was really responsive on both desktop and mobile because a lot of people come to the site on mobile as well. The idea around redesigning the site was how we can capture the attention. We've seen an increase in active time spent on our site since making those changes.
To learn more, go to clarity.microsoft.com. Welcome back to the unsolvable problem, four keys to embracing work that is never done. Before the break, we heard from Biarchy Ingalls about finding your why and Aurora James about identifying your allies. Now we hear from two more intrepid leaders who are having an impact in the face of insurmountable challenges. Let's jump to it.
Number three, compound your contributions. Catherine Finney is an American author, researcher, investor, and businesswoman. She's the founder of Genius Guild, a $20 million venture fund that invests in black entrepreneurs, building scalable businesses that serve black communities and beyond.
In addressing big challenges, Catherine isn't expecting overnight success, but she's seen how small, consistent gains can lead to outside results over time. To make her impact really carry, she knows she needs to compound her contributions. The analogy she uses is the butterfly effect.
So we all know the Ray Bradbury story, the butterfly effect, where you have travelers, they go back in time, someone's stupid, they step off the trail, brush a butterfly, completely changes the world. That little small act changes everything. And so what if we had a butterfly effect of winning, where a really small act, it may seem very small to you, creates this ripple effect of winning, in which other people start to do well.
great things start to come out of it. The butterfly effect can create a ripple, Catherine says, but it's keeping that ripple moving over time that generates impact. She learned the importance of staying power, she says, through the example set by her father. My father grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and wanted to be a surgeon.
and wasn't encouraged to do so. He was a young black man in the Midwest at that time. And so he found himself in a little trouble, went to Vietnam, and came back and did what everyone who lived in Milwaukee did, which was work at the brewery. And for those of you who come from factory towns, you know how important the factories are to the community. And in the early 1980s, they completely shut down and devastated Milwaukee. He found himself at a Workforce Development Corps. Someone taught
displaced factory workers in 1980 Milwaukee, the foundational computing language of C++. And my father took the course, got an internship at IBM at H36, and then arrived at Microsoft in 1990s. And why that matters is between the years of 1986 and 1996, Microsoft stock 100xed. And one of the big ways they compensated
is through stock options. And as a result, by the year 2000, Microsoft had created 10,000 millionaires. And one of those millionaires was my father, the high school dropout turned rock star software engineer.
Katherine witnessed firsthand the power of compounding contributions. Her father's advancement in his own career served as the catalyst that propelled the growth of his family's legacy and subsequent generations. And Katherine took that spark and built on it by allowing her father's contributions to multiply out to an even larger demographic.
When my father passed, there was over 1,000 people at its funeral, and we created a foundation in his honor. And we took that money, and the largest check we wrote was to a young, upstart nonprofit called Black Girls Code that allowed Black Girls Code to do their first summer of coding.
And so that's the example of what I'm saying about this sort of butterfly effect of winning. Catherine found her why to elevate underserved communities, whatever the challenges. And she displayed allyship in supporting these communities that in turn attracted and created other allies. Catherine's contributions went beyond her own individual efforts, planting seeds that will grow over time.
Everybody can win and that's the lens in which we invest edginess guilt We look for companies that are not just creating value for themselves or for me as their investor But also is creating value in their communities and they're not mutually exclusive I think we have this belief that if someone's creating community value, it's not gonna be great business I think it's excellent business and we're proving that with exceptional companies. We're investing in and so
I want to encourage you all today to think of what is the small thing you can do to create your own butterfly effect of winning. Catherine's journey shows how when you know your why and you harness the support of true allies, you can compound your contributions to create a positive lasting ripple effect.
Number four, be bigger than the problem. Our final lesson comes from Scott Harrison, founder and CEO of the nonprofit Charity Water. In his earlier years, Scott was a successful club promoter in New York City, fully immersed in the business of self-interest. It was only when he flipped the script on his career that he managed to not only discover his why, but put his why into action in an incredibly momentous and purposeful way.
When I was 28 years old, I was a nightclub promoter for 10 years in Manhattan. My job was to get people drunk for a living, convince them to slip past the velvet rope and sip on a $25 cocktail or a $1,000 bottle champagne. And after 10 years of this, of hard partying, of drinking and drugging,
I hated this guy who had become terribly disastrously, emotionally, spiritually bankrupt. So I had a moment, I quit everything, I sold everything I owned, and said, I'm going to have a different life. And I went to post-war Liberia, West Africa. When I was there, I saw people drinking dirty water for the first time.
water that came from swamps and from ponds and from rivers. I was on a medical mission, and here I was with these doctors trying to make people well, and I learned a billion people didn't have the most basic need for health. They didn't have clean water. I learned millions of people were dying every year from bad water, more than all the violence and war in the world.
Water impacted women and girls who almost always bore the burden, walking millions and millions of hours every year just for unsafe water, impacted food security, and impacted education. Scott had unearthed his deep-seated why. He wanted to solve the clean water dilemma for people across the globe. But soon, he had to face some harsh realities. The big issues of the world are labeled as such for a reason.
I was a naive 30-year-old. I thought this was going to be very simple. I was going to go out there. I was just going to raise money. I was going to bring in drilling rigs. I would drill $10,000 wells. I'd make dirty water clean, and I'd get the whole world clean water. I'll do this very quickly.
about five years in, when we were getting people clean water, we were hitting our groove of global well drilling domination, we came across a new problem. And this was a problem people didn't want to talk about. It was a problem so complex, nobody seemed to know how to solve it. And the problem was broken wells.
broken wells. Scott and his team had made incredible progress. They were building new wells, helping people in need. But meanwhile, existing wells were failing, going offline. Whatever gains were being achieved, there was an underlying systemic lapse. As Scott learned, when you're out to solve big problems, you inevitably hit big roadblocks.
I learned, as I did more research, a billion people around the world live in rural communities and rely on fragile water systems. It was a huge amount of people. Now, let me talk about a fragile water system. When a well breaks, it's typically not that complicated to fix. It's most often the pipe that's bringing water up cracks.
So you take the well head off, you get the whole community together, and it takes about 12 people to take 150 feet of PVC pipe up very carefully, and then you find the crack or the leak. You identify it, you cut the pipe, and you patch it back together. Now, this is how a couple billion people around the world are keeping their water systems working, and to their credit, most of them do an amazing job at it.
You can also see how the system can fail, and it fails a lot, because sometimes a major repair is needed, or the tools aren't available in a rural setting. The data we uncovered were really shocking. In Africa alone, 25% of the projects are broken right now. 25%. Most people were just ignoring this problem. This was a problem that we were going to have to solve.
Before you can solve a problem, you have to get a firm grasp on the actual scope of the issue at hand. Sometimes the deeper you dig, the bigger the hole you find yourself in, which for many business leaders can be the reason to abandon ship. But for Scott and his team of charity water, it wasn't incentive to forge ahead, because they knew that the problem they were out to solve was far more important than their own frustrations. They had to overlook their desire to throw in the towel.
And we thought, well, listen, if you could monitor the temperature of your home from across the ocean, why couldn't we monitor the performance of a well? Now, to create a device like this would cost millions of dollars, and we were a scrappy nonprofit. I mean, we had an R&D budget of exactly $0. That's just how nonprofits work. But finally, I got a meeting to pitch this idea to Google, and they ordered us a $5 million cash grant to try to go build a water sensor for the developing world.
Scott and his team had unlocked the power of allyship by petitioning Google to commit financial and technological aid to the cause. But it turned out their challenges were only beginning.
Water flowing through a well is not like water flowing through a pipe. It's terribly chaotic. It's really difficult to measure. So we would need to create capacitance sensors like the ones on your iPhone that measure the differential between air and water. We'd need to take 160 readings per second, which was 41 million bits per day. And then the engineers said, well, all that's going to use way too much battery power. And then you're going to have to figure out how to reliably transmit this from anywhere in the world.
So go find a SIM card with roaming agreements with every country in the world. And then I mentioned we wanted to make this for $200. And spend a penny a week in transmission costs.
What could Scott and his team do in the face of these unsolvable hurdles? They reminded themselves that their problems paled in comparison to those without access to clean water, and they kept plugging away. A couple of years later, we had our first sensor we were ready to test in the field, and we felt so good about this, we made 3,000 of them. So we installed an Ethiopia, and then we can't connect them to the local servers, so we can't get any data out.
So we're like, okay, what are we gonna do about this? We now have installed 3000 sensors. We can't connect. We found out mobile roaming for the entire country was broken. I realize this is gonna sound hard to believe, but we sent down a network engineer named Andy. And after three weeks of troubleshooting, he fixed roaming for the country.
All of a sudden, 3,000 sensors start chirping, and cell phones everywhere in the country start buzzing. So we're monitoring, in one instant, over a billion liters of annual flow from our sensors, just in this pilot. And we solved mobile roaming for a country of 100 million people as a byproduct of this. It was very, very exciting.
You heard that right. In seeking to solve an issue with well-sensors, Scott and his team compounded their contribution by solving the region's mobile roaming issue. When you focus on fixing unsolvable problems, you never know how impactful your solutions might be. This is the magic of meaningful entrepreneurship. Charity Water Now had a sensor that worked and the effect it's had on clean water availability continues to grow.
We've installed 8,000 of these. We currently are monitoring the largest data set in the history of the world when it comes to rural water supply, mainly because no one ever bothered to do this before. And now, when a well breaks, we can dispatch Gitauchu.
He's a technician, so think of him like AppleCare or Best Buy's Geek Squad for Wells. He jumps on and he's got his tools and he can turn up and he can fix a well. We have a lot of work to do ahead. We're gonna have to find the funding to scale from pilot and take this around the world. We're gonna have to get governments to accept the reality of failed projects.
But it's exciting because if this works, we can help keep clean water flowing for the people out there who really need our help. So we just want to make sure that a well like this never breaks down from a $20 corroded pipe. So I don't know. Maybe there's a broken wells version in your company or your organization. What we learned through this new adventure is that it is far better to uncover your own problems.
And to try to just face them and not ignore them, not sweep them under the rug, but to tackle them head on. And thereby, you get all these other unintended consequences sometimes of solving other problems in adjacency. Fifteen years ago, a friend of mine set me this picture from outside of Manhattan, Delhi. Do not be afraid of work that has no end.
It's from an ancient rabbinic text, and this is really how I've come to see this journey now 16 years in. If you are trying to solve big problems, the work will never end. And that idea really used to scare me. And now, I've embraced it.
Thank you for joining us on this exploration of unsolvable problems and the key lessons learned by leaders who are working tirelessly to solve them. The biggest issues can't be remedied with a single step or a single podcast episode, but hopefully we can all be inspired to join in the good fight and make a difference in our world at a deeper level of scale. I'm Bob Safian, thanks for listening.
Union Market is a local, independently owned neighborhood restaurant and market. Our retail market has a range of local and small batch curated items, and we have in-house dining. We make everything from scratch. That's Jillian Field, Capital One business customer and co-owner of Union Market in Richmond, Virginia, a local favorite with devoted daily customers. But one day,
The city removed a tree on the sidewalk. The roots had wrapped themselves around the sewer pipe and unbeknownst to them, ruptured this pipe, which obviously wreaked havoc. Undersene circumstances can often cause big setbacks for small businesses.
We ended up having to be closed for a week between the two bathrooms upstairs and the various sinks. Everything was erupting at once. We also had flooding in the basement area where our backstock is and leaking through the ceiling. But Jillian didn't have to dip into savings or take a loan out to cover costs. She used points from her Capital One Spark card.
Having those points available to help with the loss of business as well as to continue to pay our employees was truly a lifesaver. Capital One has been a great partner and we use the Spark Business Card. It's straightforward, easy to use, cashback. It's truly essential. To learn more, go to capitalone.com slash business slash cashback cards.
Masters of Scale Rapid Response is a weight what original? I'm Bob Safi and your host and Masters of Scale's editor-at-law. Our executive producers are June Cohen, Darren Triff and Chris McLeod. Our chief content officer and interim president is Lori Hoffman.
Our producers are Chris Gautier, Masha Makutonina, Adam Scuse, Alex Morris, and Tucker Lagursky. Our music director is Ryan Holiday, original music by Eduardo Rivera, Ryan Holiday, and Daniel Nissenbaum. Sound design and audio editing by Keith J. Nelson, Steven Davies, Liam Jenkins, and Andrew Nalt. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli and Brian Pugh.
Special thanks to Aria Fingers, Saida Sapieva, Jodindor Se, Alfonso Bravo, Colin Howard, Tim Cronin, Kelsey Cézanne, Samia Pouta, Sarah Tarka, Brandon Klein, Brad Worrell, Louisa Vallez, Justin Winslow, Nikki Williams, Chinamea Zaquena, Marielle Carricka, and Katie Blason.
Visit mastersofscale.com slash rapid response to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our email newsletter. Become a member of Masters of Scale to get access to a year's worth of courses and content on the Masters of Scale Courses app. Find out more at mastersofscale.com slash membership.
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