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    TIP 504: Opportunities in Energy, Metals and Mines w/ Will Thomson

    Piff offers a low-risk investment opportunity in renewable assets in South America, ideal for small communities. Although there is political risk, the management team is building it for the long term, making it a great platform to continue adding to.

    enDecember 16, 2022

    About this Episode

    IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN: 01:34 - How to apply probabilistic thinking when approaching investing. 14:26 - Will’s structure for the “perfect portfolio”. 32:29 - Why Uranium hasn’t performed as most hoped for in 2022. 40:11 - How the sustainable energy supply chain is struggling to achieve healthy margins. 54:58 - Assessing different types of risk including political risk. 1:00:04 - The stock pick that got Will accepted into the prestigious Value Investors Club (founded by Joel Greenblatt) and what stock he would pitch today. And much, much more! Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive TIP Mastermind Community to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, and the other community members. Massif Capital Website. Will Thomson Twitter. Trey Lockerbie Twitter. NEW TO THE SHOW? Check out our We Study Billionaires Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts.  SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota Linkedin Marketing Solutions Fidelity Efani Shopify NDTCO Fundrise Wise NetSuite TurboTax Vacasa NerdWallet Babbel HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    🔑 Key Takeaways

    • When investing in mining, heavy industries, and energy, it's crucial to evaluate probability of success and failure of management teams and fluctuations in commodity price. Robust understanding of risk assessment and probabilistic thinking is necessary for sound investment decisions.
    • When applying DCF analysis, think in terms of odds and probabilities by creating scenarios that capture a spread of possibilities. Use subjective probability to incorporate political risk, management success rate, and budget. Apply probability after calculating free cash flow forecast to capture complete potential outcome.
    • To reduce uncertainties and subjectivity, use a DCF model with weighted scenarios when evaluating investment opportunities. Be clear about the questions being asked, use alternate methods, and set a margin of safety when there are doubts about management claims.
    • It's important to identify the strike zone and triangulate through multiple approaches. Being directionally right and careful consideration of position sizing, volatility, and desired returns are crucial for portfolio construction. Setting boundaries based on time, research capacity, risk tolerance, and aiming for a NETA fees return of 12% can help create a perfect portfolio.
    • To reduce volatility and make better investment decisions, establish ideal position size and benchmark individual positions. For junior miners, focus on future mine openings, for industrials, look for contracted cash flows and niche products, and for energy, reduce operational risk.
    • Real asset investors typically have shorter investment horizons and different incentives than strategic investors. Competitive advantages can fade, so it's important to consider these constraints when making investment decisions.
    • Understanding the reason for mispricing and assessing fundamental value is crucial for realizing returns in the stock market. Investing in industries such as uranium requires industry knowledge and may not yield returns until prices reach a certain threshold.
    • Investing in junior firms in the uranium market is risky due to uncertain prices. Instead, consider investing in established companies like Kazatomprom with strong cash flow and dividends. The opaque market is unpredictable, with potential for growth but not enough to rely on alone.
    • Investing in uranium companies can be difficult due to uncertainty in price movement and the complexity of dealing with derivatives. The sustainable energy industry faces challenges in obtaining necessary inputs and balancing power supply and demand during the phase-out of hydrocarbon powers.
    • Investing in mining and energy assets for renewable energy production requires a long-term investment horizon, careful planning, and considerations of potential supply and demand imbalances. Proper evaluation and patience are crucial for success.
    • The value of batteries is increasing, but the environmental impact of mining metals for batteries cannot be ignored. To mitigate this impact, mining companies are developing alternative processing methods while investment and attention should be directed towards the processing step of the value chain.
    • Project-based plans in documents like 43,101 make valuating mining companies easier, but it's important to also consider qualitative factors such as funding risk, operational diversification, and political risk to assess viability and execution.
    • Focus on finding the right mining companies rather than predicting commodity prices. Investing during interesting price fluctuations can be beneficial. Consider niche metals like tin for a smaller universe to understand. Visiting mines provides valuable insight into viability and security considerations.
    • Spending time with management in emerging markets is critical before investing in junior mining companies. Investors should independently research the management, operations, and financial positions of the business. Don't rely on prestigious clubs and incentives, think independently.
    • Piff offers a low-risk investment opportunity in renewable assets in South America, ideal for small communities. Although there is political risk, the management team is building it for the long term, making it a great platform to continue adding to.

    📝 Podcast Summary

    Importance of Probabilistic Thinking in Investing in Unpredictable Commodity Price Sectors

    Probabilistic thinking is essential while investing in sectors like mining, heavy industries, and energy, where commodity price is unpredictable. Will Thomson, the founder of Massif Capital, suggests waiting scenarios to assess the probability of success and failure of the management team, and fluctuations in commodity price. Developing a perfect value NPV equation takes into account the entire plan given by the management team for the next 10-20 years, but executing that plan depends on many external and internal factors. Therefore, investing in such sectors requires a robust understanding of risk assessment, including political risks, and the ability to think probabilistically, which is essential in making sound investment decisions.

    Using Subjective Probability in DCF Analysis for Commodity Producers and Project-based Companies

    When applying the DCF structure, create scenarios to capture a spread of possibilities instead of pinpointing a single point. Use subjective probability to capture the entirety of the potential outcome and force to think in terms of odds and probabilities. Running a DCF at each price point and summing probability weighted values up to a final value is the best approach. Apply scenarios creatively to incorporate political risk, management success rate, and budget. This approach is ideal for commodity producers and project-based companies. Build an outlook that takes all possible futures into account and use subjective probability built from your mosaic of information. Apply probability after calculating free cash flow forecast to capture complete potential outcome.

    Multiple Approaches for Evaluating Investment Opportunities

    When evaluating investment opportunities, it's important to use multiple approaches and triangulate the results to get a clearer understanding of the potential returns. One such approach is to use a DCF model, but it's important to apply weightings to different scenarios to account for subjectivity and uncertainty. It's also important to be clear about the questions being asked and what's baked into the answers. While different approaches may yield different answers, they can all be backed up into alternate methods. Additionally, setting a margin of safety, especially when there are doubts about management claims, can further mitigate risks. Overall, a successful investment strategy is a combination of different approaches and careful evaluation of each investment opportunity.

    Simplifying Investment Decisions: Balancing Precision and Practicality

    While explicit and intricate modeling may give better precision in investment decisions, it may not add significant value once the strike zone is identified. A hard, messy DCF can be simplified for practicality, but triangulation through multiple approaches is important. It's better to be directionally right than precisely wrong, and portfolio construction should be done with careful consideration of position sizing, volatility, and desired returns. Understanding one's conviction in positions is crucial for sizing positions correctly. The pursuit of a perfect portfolio involves setting boundaries around position sizing based on time, research capacity, and risk tolerance, with the aim of delivering a NETA fees return of 12%.

    A Perfect Portfolio for Investments in Junior Miners, Industrials, and Energy.

    The perfect portfolio concept helps to establish the ideal position size and benchmark individual positions against it. This approach helps to reduce volatility and make better investment decisions. For junior miners, focus on those about to turn on a mine in the next 2-5 years. Avoid commodity producers to reduce reliance on commodity price forecasts. In industrials, look for contracted cash flows, niche products, and moats. Energy is more volatile, making it necessary to reduce operational risk. Mass Capital invests in materials, energy, and industrials as they exist on their own individual value chains within the real asset ecosystem. Cyclical stocks are held for 3-5 years.

    Understanding Investor Constraints and Incentives in Real Assets

    Investors in real assets like oil and mining tend to look for investments to mature in three to five years and get in and get out. The concept of holding something forever and buying and holding forever might not play out that way. At some point, competitive advantages will fade and companies will revert to doing what everybody else in the industry does. Investors have different constraints and incentives that impel them to do different things, so it's important to understand these differences. Most investors are always a minority, not a strategic investor, and everyone is trading prices on different timelines.

    The Importance of Fundamental Value and Industry Understanding in Stock Investing

    The return from owning a stock comes from dividends or capital appreciation, which is driven by fundamental value and macroeconomic issues. Mispricing may occur due to factors such as market structure and passive buying. Understanding the reason for mispricing and how it will close is crucial for realizing a return in the stock. Uranium is a good example of the importance of assessing fundamental value and understanding the industry before investing. Juniors in the uranium industry may have theoretical value, but may not monetize assets until uranium prices have crossed a certain threshold.

    Investing in the Uranium Market: Navigating Risk and Uncertainty

    Investing in junior firms in the uranium market is a risky bet, as it relies heavily on the uncertain movement of uranium prices. Instead, investing in a company like Kazatomprom, with a strong discounted cash flow and healthy dividends, can be a better option. The market is highly opaque, and experts on secondary markets and contracting cycles for utilities can attest to this. While there is potential for a strong move in uranium prices, it is hard to predict when this will happen, as the market doesn't clear and there is a lot of supply sitting on the sidelines. With a new appreciation for nuclear power, increasing demand for uranium could lead to an increase in supply, but this alone is not enough of a thesis to rely on.

    Challenges of Investing in Uranium and Sustainable Energy

    The uranium market has been experiencing the same supply-demand imbalance for the last 10 years, and although growth in demand may lead to price movement, timing is uncertain. Investing in uranium companies can be challenging as it is difficult to predict how high the uranium prices will go, and how long it will take for them to rise. Moreover, dealing with derivatives of uranium adds to the complexity of the investment decision. In contrast to the challenges faced by the uranium industry, the sustainable energy industry presents environmental and economic complexities in terms of getting all the necessary inputs, such as copper and poly silicone, for wind, solar, and EVs. A significant challenge for sustainable energy is the careful sequencing of the phase-out of hydrocarbon powers, as power supply and demand always need to be precisely balanced.

    The Challenges and Considerations of Investing in Mining and Energy Assets for Renewable Energy Production

    Investments in mining and energy assets are crucial to address the challenges of renewable energy production, but these investments take time to yield results. The valuations of OEMs and renewable operators may not justify the enthusiasm surrounding them and require a long-term investment horizon. Oil and natural gas assets face supply and demand imbalances, and pricing at current levels assumes a perfect scenario that may not pan out. Copper assets and other battery materials also require long-term planning due to long lead times to start production, making early investment necessary. While renewable energy has its place, it is essential to keep in mind the timeline for these investments and their potential challenges.

    The negative environmental impact of mining metals for batteries and alternative processing methodologies

    The demand for batteries is increasing but the negative environment impact of mining for metals used in the batteries can't be mitigated. Different chemistries require different metals to be mined. Processing the metal and the material is where the negative environmental impact comes from, so mining firms are developing alternative processing methodologies. While there's no shortage of lithium, there's a shortage of operating mines and turning on a lithium asset requires five to ten years. The value chain of mining it is not where it ends, but instead, it's in the processing step. Shifting around the value chain is critical to investing in the right metal spots depending on the cycle.

    Valuing mining companies - technical and qualitative considerations.

    Valuing mining companies can be relatively straightforward from a technical perspective because they are all project-based, and their plans must be published in a document called a 43,101. However, on the qualitative side, important variables to consider include permitting and funding risk, geographical exposure, operational diversification, liquidity risk, and whether the company is a producer or developer. Geology is important but doesn't need to be the be-all and end-all variable, and assessing the accuracy of project validation is essential. Overall, mining companies can be easier to approach due to the heavy-lifting done by management in their plans, but qualitative analysis is essential to assess their viability and execution. Operational diversification can help reduce political risk, which is an essential consideration.

    Investing in Mining Firms - Finding the Sweet Spot

    Investing in mining firms is similar to investing in biotech firms - there's a sweet spot where the de-risking and trading down occurs, and that's where investors want to be. It's more about finding the right companies than predicting the commodity price. Niche metals like tin have few businesses, making it easier to understand the entire universe. Starting to invest when interesting things happen in the commodity price helps finding the right company. Understanding mining companies by going to the mines is valuable, but not always necessary. However, when investors do go to the mines, they learn something that's critical and informs the mosaic of their understanding. Critical aspects that investors should consider include the viability process and security of the mines.

    Importance of visiting and researching mining companies in emerging markets

    In emerging and developing markets, it is critical to visit the asset and spend a lot of time with management. This provides value-added components as mining is much about betting jockeys. It is an investment worth the additional cost of research to call up these mining firms and join their trips. Junior mining investors should focus on the management team and spend time chatting about their family life and also discussing the business. Additionally, not all prestigious clubs guarantee the best stock picks, as not all incentives are aligned. Investors should think independently about a company before investing and also look into the management, operational strategies, and financial position of the business.

    Piff - A Low-Risk Investment in Renewable Assets in South America.

    Polaris Infrastructure, with a new name Piff and ticker symbol P-I-F, is a company that operates renewable assets in South America and runs run of river hydro, solar, and wind projects. The assets are already operating, funded, permitted, and have signed off takes, which makes it a low-risk investment. The geography of South America is ideal for small communities with 10-100k people, as building a hub and spoke electrical system is challenging because of the separated terrains. Although there is political risk because it is in Nicaragua and exposes in the Dominican Republic and Ecuador, the management team is building it for the long term and is a great platform to continue adding to it. They also reassess their timeline every year, and some investments they end up holding for a long time.

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    TIP628: The Inner Scorecard w/ Mohnish Pabrai

    TIP628: The Inner Scorecard w/ Mohnish Pabrai
    On today’s show, Stig Brodersen talks with legend value investor Mohnish Pabrai. Since its inception in 1999, one dollar invested in the flagship fund would have turned into $12.51 vs. $4.72 for the S&P500. In the interview, Mohnish Pabrai discusses his approach to a congruent life.  Disclaimer: Stig Brodersen is invested in Pabrai Funds.  IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 10:14 - Which decisions Mohnish Pabrai made to improve his happiness. 15:06 - How to use the Buffett system to grade people. 26:02 - Why Mohnish likes to play bridge more than poker. 31:06 - Which principles Mohnish lives by. 38:58 - How Buffett and Mohnish (do not) take notes. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive TIP Mastermind Community to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members. Mohnish Pabrai’s website. Learn more about Mohnish Pabrai’s Dakshana Foundation. Our interviews with Mohnish Pabrai about Masterclass Investing | YouTube Video. Our interviews with Mohnish Pabrai about investing in stocks | YouTube Video. Our interviews with Mohnish Pabrai about value investing and philanthropy | YouTube Video. Our interviews with Mohnish Pabrai about value investing | YouTube Video. Our interviews with Mohnish Pabrai about value investing in 2021 | YouTube Video. Our interview with William Green about Mohnish Pabrai and much more | YouTube Video. Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Check out our We Study Billionaires Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota CI Financial AT&T Yahoo! Finance Long Angle iFlex Stretch Studios Public American Express USPS NerdWallet HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

    TIP627: Best Quality Idea Q2 2024 w/ Clay Finck & Kyle Grieve

    TIP627: Best Quality Idea Q2 2024 w/ Clay Finck & Kyle Grieve
    On today’s episode, Clay and Kyle give an overview of their best quality stock idea for Q2 2024. This quarter, they discuss Lululemon. Lululemon is well-known in the world of quality investors, and the share price has recently declined by over 30%. Tune into today’s episode to hear Clay and Kyle’s thoughts on Lululemon’s business and what the prospective returns might look like going forward. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 09:09 - The competitive advantages of Lululemon. 21:53 - How Lululemon’s margins compare to their competitors. 33:24 - What will drive Lululemon’s future growth. 37:46 - How large Lululemon’s total addressable market is. 44:13 - Our assessment of the management team and balance sheet. 60:24 - Our thoughts on the valuation. 67:29 - Lululemon’s most important key performance indicators.  Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive TIP Mastermind Community to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members. Books mentioned: The Story of Lululemon, 7 Powers Related Episode TIP604: Best Quality Idea Q1 2024 w/ Clay Finck & Kyle Grieve | YouTube Video. Related Episode: TIP587: Dino Polska: A Polish Compounder w/ Clay Finck & Kyle Grieve | YouTube Video. Follow Kyle on Twitter. Follow Clay on Twitter. Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Check out our We Study Billionaires Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota CI Financial AT&T Yahoo! Finance Long Angle iFlex Stretch Studios Public American Express USPS NerdWallet HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

    BTC180: The Current Challenges Bitcoin Faces w/ Max Hillebrand (Bitcoin Podcast)

    BTC180: The Current Challenges Bitcoin Faces w/ Max Hillebrand (Bitcoin Podcast)
    Dive deep into Bitcoin's evolution with expert Max Hillebrand. We unravel Mises' action axiom, Hoppe's private property origins, and Rothbard's economic theories. Discover Wasabi Wallet's role in privacy, the potential of Ocean mining, and strategies for Bitcoiners to enhance anonymity. Max also shares his take on Bitcoin's path to ossification and how institutions can shield assets against regulatory overreach. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 04:54 - The principles of Ludwig von Mises' economic dualism and the axiom of action. 06:23 - Hermann Hoppe's theory on private property as a natural emergence. 10:11 - The significance of Murray Rothbard's "Man, Economy, and State, with Power and Markets." 12:59 - An inside look at Bisq and the passion driving decentralized finance platforms. 27:29 - The role of covenants in Bitcoin and their potential to enhance transaction privacy. 34:26 - Innovations in Bitcoin mining pools and the impact of Ocean Bitcoin mining. 38:59 - Strategies beyond CoinJoin for improving privacy for Bitcoin transactions. 01:00:46 - How institutions can use Bitcoin technology to protect their financial sovereignty and self-custody assets. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Max Hillebrand on X (Twitter). Max's website with links to his projects. Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Check out our Bitcoin Fundamentals Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota CI Financial AT&T Yahoo! Finance Long Angle iFlex Stretch Studios Public American Express USPS NerdWallet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

    RWH044: How To Beat The Market w/ Bryan Lawrence

    RWH044: How To Beat The Market w/ Bryan Lawrence
    In this episode, William Green chats with Bryan Lawrence, a highly successful hedge fund manager who runs an investment firm called Oakcliff Capital. Bryan almost never gives interviews, so this is a rare opportunity to hear him speak in depth about the advantages of a concentrated value strategy, how he finds new investments, what 6 questions he asks when analyzing any stock, what he’s learned from Buffett & Munger, & how to build a happy life. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 05:42 - What Bryan Lawrence learned from his hugely successful father. 16:30 - What Charlie Munger taught Bryan.  33:07 - How Shelby Cullom Davis turned $200,000 into $800 million. 39:14 - How Bryan has consciously built an investing edge. 43:25 - What he learned from meeting Warren Buffett. 47:15 - Why Bryan looks for three specific characteristics in any business. 59:18 - How to beat the market by making infrequent bets.  1:08:19 - Why he’s obsessed with identifying where he’s wrong. 1:10:17 - How he searches for new investment ideas. 1:14:32 - How he structures his day. 1:44:20 - How to think rationally about fossil fuels & climate change. 1:49:1 - How to build a happy life & great relationships. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Bryan Lawrence’s investment firm, Oakcliff Capital. Check out Poor Charlie’s Almanack. Dean Ornish & Anne Ornish's book Undo It. Robert Cialdini's book Influence. Alain de Boton's book The Consolations of Philosophy. Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, & Sheila Heen's book Difficult Conversations. John Rothchild's book The Davis Dynasty. Vaclav Smil's book How the World Really Works. David Mackay's book Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air. Gillian Zoe Segal's book Getting There. William Green’s podcast interview with Chris Davis | YouTube Video William Green’s book, “Richer, Wiser, Happier” – read the reviews of this book. Follow William Green on X. Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts.  SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota Meyka AT&T Vacasa Fidelity Monarch Money Yahoo! Finance Long Angle Public USPS American Express Shopify HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm