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    • Understanding MarTech and its role in managing and optimizing systems and platforms for marketing.MarTech is essential for businesses of all sizes to navigate the complex ad network landscape and make informed decisions using probabilistic data.

      Marketing technology, or MarTech, is a cross-functional discipline that combines processes and systems from product, growth, engineering, and marketing. MarTech can involve a collection of third-party tools or a combination of third-party and first-party solutions developed in-house as a company scales and grows. It is the role of a MarTech professional to manage and optimize these systems and platforms. The size and stage of a company determine the extent of the MarTech function, ranging from a dedicated team with product and engineering resources to a small startup where individuals handle tool implementation and usage. Marketers must adapt to the changing landscape of ad networks, becoming more complex and sophisticated, while understanding how to make decisions with probabilistic data in the absence of deterministic data.

    • Understanding the Role of MarTech in Business GrowthThe size and growth stage of a company determine the need for dedicated MarTech functions, with various options available to suit different business types and structures.

      MarTech, or marketing technology, is influenced by the size and stage of a company's growth. In smaller startups, individuals often fulfill multiple roles and utilize various tools to manage their marketing and growth efforts. However, as a company scales and reaches a critical mass of about 100-150 people, a dedicated MarTech function becomes necessary to handle the complexity and liability of data management, tool integration, procurement, and legal requirements. Depending on the business type (B2C or B2B) and organizational structure, MarTech can be housed within product operations, IT, marketing, or a standalone unit. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to MarTech, with numerous variations and solutions available to meet the unique needs of each company.

    • Leveraging Technology for Business GrowthA dedicated MarTech person is essential for managing the complexity of marketing and business technology, ensuring efficiency and growth through careful tool selection and implementation.

      MarTech, or marketing technology, entails using technology and tools to drive growth. A MarTech person's role is to focus on the tools and solve problems related to marketing and business technology. As a company grows, it becomes crucial to have a dedicated MarTech person who can handle the increasing complexity of systems and tools. This includes setting up new tools, building on top of third-party tools, and making architecting decisions. Additionally, the contract part of MarTech is important in terms of scrutinizing deals, terms, and potential cost implications as the company scales. Efficiency and pain drive the need for a MarTech person, as accumulating different tools can create inefficiencies in connecting data and backend infrastructure for measuring and driving growth.

    • Considerations for Organizational Structure and Reporting Lines in HiringWhen determining the structure and reporting lines for hiring a role, factors such as company type (B2C or B2B) and the importance of reporting into a specific function should be considered. There is no one-size-fits-all approach, and companies should align their structure based on their unique circumstances.

      The organization structure and reporting lines for hiring a role depend on various factors such as whether it is a B2C or B2B company and the importance of reporting into a specific function. In a B2C company, it is generally recommended to have the marketing technology role alongside the head of growth or reporting to the head of growth. This person should be a strong technical architect to effectively collaborate with the product and engineering teams. However, some companies opt for a product manager or platform PM to manage growth and handle internal platform systems. For B2C decentralized companies, there may be a system person in each org, but this can create complexity unless the company is large enough to handle it. B2B companies have different considerations, and the structure can either be centralized or decentralized depending on customer needs and resource allocation. Ultimately, there is no universally right answer, and organizations should align their structure and reporting lines based on their unique circumstances.

    • The Role and Challenges of a Marketing TechnologistA marketing technologist is responsible for managing tools and systems, collaborating with various departments, and simplifying the technology stack while being a strong team player.

      The role of a marketing technologist is highly case-specific and dependent on the leader of the function. It can be situated in various departments such as product or engineering, depending on the expertise and background of the leader. Marketing technologists need to be both individual contributors (ICs) and managers, as they are responsible for being the most senior technical expert on all first-party and third-party systems. They must have firsthand experience in managing tools and systems to effectively understand and utilize third-party tools. The success of a marketing technologist lies in their ability to manage upward, laterally, and downward, as they constantly need to collaborate with various departments and stakeholders. They also play a crucial role in persuading and convincing others about the importance and benefits of marketing technology. In larger organizations, marketing technologists face challenges in consolidating and simplifying the technology stack while preventing the introduction of duplicative tools. Overall, being a marketing technologist requires a strong cross-functional team player and a true quarterback in coordinating different departments.

    • Managing administrative tasks and automated systems at scale: Importance, risks, and considerationsBalancing administrative tasks, security risks, and future planning is crucial in managing a large company. Collaborating with specialized roles can improve effectiveness in specific areas.

      Managing administrative tasks and implementing automated systems is crucial, especially at a large company scale. Giving someone incorrect permissions or access to tools can result in embarrassing situations or security risks. Designing systems and contracts for the future is an important part of the job, along with considering financials and contracts. It's necessary to justify spending engineering time and resources by assessing the costs and benefits. Additionally, it's important to think about the future and make choices that mitigate risks. Balancing time spent on managing third-party tools and building product features can be challenging. Collaborating with other roles within the growth umbrella, such as a MarTech person, can enhance effectiveness in specific areas.

    • Understanding the Role of MarTech ProfessionalsMarTech professionals play a crucial role in supporting user acquisition and optimizing marketing campaigns, with a focus on cost efficiency and tool optimization for long-term business success.

      Marketing technology, or MarTech, is often an engineering-based role that supports user acquisition and campaign optimization. While engineers or individuals with engineering backgrounds may be capable of performing MarTech functions themselves, it is common for the role to be divided between those responsible for acquiring users and those responsible for managing and optimizing the marketing technology tools and processes. MarTech professionals assist in setting up campaigns, sending email blasts, debugging, and conducting analytics work, but their focus is not on engineering-based tasks. Additionally, MarTech professionals should have goals tied to the needs and objectives of the team they are supporting, but they should also strive for cost efficiency and tool optimization to ensure the business's success in the long run.

    • Prioritizing cost control in marketing technology investments.Marketing technology leaders should focus on controlling costs while upgrading tools, even if it requires investing in more expensive solutions.

      Marketing technology leaders should strive to control costs over time, even though many businesses don't. While there may be discreet goals that are not cost-efficient but have a strong net capability, it is important to prioritize cost control. An example of this is when businesses need to upgrade their tools to accommodate growth and complexity. They may have to invest in bigger and more expensive tools like Braze or Marketo but should aim to make the switch without losing money. This responsibility usually falls on the MarTech person during a change transformation effort. Additionally, when considering tooling and recommendations, the conversation highlights the evolving nature of B2C stack solutions, from CDPs to warehouse models and reverse ETLs. Businesses now have more options to manage and activate their data effectively.

    • The importance of having a clear methodology for data movement and using a reverse ETL tool.Businesses should carefully choose tools that can solve specific problems and design scalable systems for capturing leads and integrating with tools like Salesforce.

      Businesses should have a clear methodology or system for moving data from one place to another. It is important to avoid haphazardly moving data without a defined approach. One option is using a reverse ETL, which allows data to be moved from a warehouse to a tool. Examples of reverse ETLs include Segment, Particle, Rudder Stack, Census, and Hightouch. However, the choice of tools should be based on their ability to solve specific problems. In B2B environments, it is crucial to carefully design systems for capturing leads, integrating with tools like Salesforce, and conducting outbound activities. These systems should be scalable and adaptable to the needs of the business.

    • The Complexity of B2B2C User Acquisition and Retention SystemsBalancing system complexity and resource management is crucial for successful data collection and integration in B2B2C businesses, while effective attribution plays a significant role in achieving multi-touch attribution.

      B2B2C is a rising trend that brings complexity to user acquisition and retention systems. In B2B businesses, the focus is on acquiring companies rather than individual users, and tracking user behavior within the application is for retention purposes rather than acquisition. The challenge lies in tying users to companies and determining where the necessary tools for this integration should reside in the system. The example of using both HubSpot and Salesforce highlights the complexities involved in mapping data between different CRMs. Making decisions about data collection and integration involves a trade-off between system complexity and resource management. The conversation also touches on the importance of effective attribution and provides insights into multi-touch attribution.

    • Understanding MMM and MTA for Effective Marketing Resource Allocation.Collecting and organizing data is crucial for analyzing growth, experimentation, and attribution results. Transitioning to multi-touch attribution requires proper data management from the start.

      Understanding Mixed Media Modeling (MMM) and Multi-touch Attribution (MTA) is crucial for effectively allocating resources to campaign spending in marketing. Both MMM and MTA rely on data collection, specifically the user object and event objects collected on websites or applications. Building and managing tools and systems that collect the necessary data is essential for analyzing complex growth, experimentation, and attribution results. Additionally, when it comes to MTA, businesses typically start with either first touch or last touch attribution models and eventually transition to a multi-touch attribution model. Collecting and organizing important data such as referrers, UTMs, and advertising network parameters is a best practice from the beginning to facilitate this transition and optimize marketing strategies.

    • Importance of Setting up Data Collection Infrastructure for Attribution ModelingSetting up a comprehensive data collection infrastructure, including storing UTM parameters locally and collecting user information, is essential for effective attribution modeling and future analysis.

      Setting up a proper infrastructure for data collection is crucial for effective attribution modeling. Most marketers use UTMs to track campaign types, but it's important to note that UTMs are specific to the moment a person visits your website. Therefore, it's necessary to store UTM parameters locally on the device, such as a browser, as UTM first campaign and UTM last campaign. By collecting user information and events on the website, both as user attributes and events, you can build a comprehensive user profile with first and last attribution information. This setup requires proper data warehouse management and a well-defined taxonomy. Third-party tools may have limitations, so building your own data warehouse allows for flexibility and control over the schema. By implementing this infrastructure early on, you can gather the necessary data for future attribution modeling.

    • Designing Efficient Systems for Effective Marketing AttributionMarketing technologists should consider the entire customer journey, integrate tracking technologies, and embrace probabilistic matching and attribution to make informed decisions based on aggregated data.

      Marketing technologists need to think ahead and design systems in an elegant and efficient way to adapt to the complex nature of advertising and attribution. UTMs alone are not enough, and marketers need to consider the entire customer journey, including the steps in between, and integrate tracking technologies into user profiles and events. The conversation highlights the importance of staying updated on emerging tools and platforms, such as Threads and Reddit, and paying attention to how attribution works in different advertising channels. With the limitations in deterministic matching, marketers should embrace probabilistic matching and attribution to make informed decisions based on aggregated data. It's essential for marketing technologists to develop a skillset in understanding and utilizing probabilistic data for effective decision-making.

    • Challenges and Solutions in Measuring Attribution and the Importance of Intellectual Curiosity in Marketing AnalyticsBusinesses facing attribution challenges should consider alternative measurement methods like MTA or MMM, but should also assess their data readiness. Understanding the general impact of campaigns on revenue and hiring curious individuals is crucial in marketing analytics.

      Measuring attribution has become more challenging due to factors such as browser truncation of URL parameters and cookie blockers. Many businesses are struggling to adapt to the new world of App Tracking Transparency (ATT) and are turning to Multi-Touch Attribution (MTA) or Marketing Mix Modeling (MMM) for measurement. However, it is important to consider whether a company has the necessary data and readiness for MMM before implementing it. In the absence of precise attribution, businesses are resorting to understanding the general impact of their campaigns on advertising revenue. Additionally, hiring individuals with intellectual curiosity is highly valued, as it indicates a potential fit for the dynamic and evolving field of marketing analytics.

    • Valuable Qualities and Skills in the MarTech IndustryIntellectual curiosity and adaptability to new technologies are crucial in the MarTech industry. Self-teaching and problem-solving skills are more important than having a software engineering degree.

      Intellectual curiosity and basic engineering scrappiness are highly valued qualities in the MarTech industry. The ability to quickly learn and adapt to new technologies is crucial, as it is impossible to be an expert in every tool available. It is not necessary to have a software engineering degree to enter the field, as self-teaching and online coding academies can provide the necessary skills within a relatively short period. When assessing candidates, it is important to ask how they prepared for the interview, as it reveals their ability to plan, think critically, and take things seriously. Additionally, it is beneficial to inquire about their approach to solving problems and their tool preferences, with a preference for individuals who prioritize problem-solving over tool-specific biases.

    • Prioritizing Problem-Solving and Avoiding False Flags in Decision-Making ProcessesProject managers should prioritize problem-solving and understanding the problem set, avoid false flags and shortcuts, and be open to exploring new tools and solutions.

      When it comes to project managers (PMs), it is important for them to choose tools based on the specific problem they're trying to solve, rather than just sticking to what they're familiar with. PMs should have a mindset of understanding the problem set and the solution space, rather than regurgitating existing knowledge. When assessing whether someone is a good fit to work with, one red flag for Austin is if a company refuses to share their financials with a director-level or above person, as it suggests they may be hiding something or lack trust in their senior leaders. Rather than focusing on red flags, it is more valuable to assess false identifiers on resumes that may lead to shortcuts. Additionally, Austin suggests the need for a one-page document containing useful life frameworks that are easily forgettable but valuable, which can help in various aspects of work and life. Overall, the key takeaway is to prioritize problem-solving over relying solely on tools and to be mindful of false flags and shortcuts in decision-making processes.

    • Solving Problems through Marketing Technology.Understand the problems, identify the people involved, and adopt a "build and buy" mindset to create a consensus-driven solution that saves time, resources, and satisfies everyone.

      When it comes to marketing technology, it's important to remember that tools are meant to solve problems. It's not just about focusing on buying and integrating tools, but truly understanding the problems and taking action to address them. Instead of jumping straight to the system, it's beneficial to first identify the problem and the people involved. By doing this, it becomes easier to design a system that solves the specific problem and meets the needs of the people involved. Additionally, the conversation highlights the importance of adopting a "build and buy" mindset rather than a "build versus buy" approach. By considering both options and analyzing the problem at hand, a consensus-driven solution can be created that saves time and resources while making everyone happy.

    • Accelerated outcomes and vendor commitment through customizing third-party toolsBuilding a stack of third-party tools and customizing them to fit your needs can lead to improved outcomes and better vendor support, while "thinking gray" helps make better decisions in product development and hiring.

      Building on top of a third-party tool can lead to accelerated outcomes and vendor commitment. When you customize a tool to fit your needs as a customer, the vendor becomes invested in your success and is more likely to accommodate your requests for changes or new features. This concept of building a stack and leveraging third-party tools can be valuable in various fields, including product development and decision-making processes. Additionally, the conversation introduces the concept of "thinking gray," which emphasizes the importance of delaying decisions until necessary, allowing for better evaluations and potentially better outcomes. This mindset can be applied not only to product decisions but also to evaluating people and making hiring choices.

    • Leadership, entertainment, interviews, and productivity tools explored for personal and professional growth.Understand the philosophical aspects of leadership, seek entertainment with problem-solving arcs, conduct vulnerable interviews, and utilize efficient productivity tools for better appreciation and understanding.

      Leadership books like The Contrarians Guide to Leadership and The Art and Adventure of Leadership focus more on philosophical aspects of leadership rather than technical specifications on running a business. For those who desire a satisfying story arc with problems being solved, TV shows like Suits and Silo, Witcher are recommended. Our Flag Means Death offers comic relief with its hilarious portrayal of black beard and a gay pirate captain. Additionally, What We Do in the Shadows provides dumb comedy entertainment. When it comes to conducting interviews, asking candidates about the most difficult or challenging thing they have overcome in the past year helps to create a vulnerable and sincere atmosphere. Furthermore, cal.com is recommended as an alternative to the expensive and less efficient Calendly for easy management of multiple calendars. Finally, the power of appreciation and understanding the challenges people face in their personal lives can lead to a greater appreciation for the good moments in life.

    • Embracing Challenges and Exploring New Interests: Insights from Austin HayUnderstanding the setbacks and sharing failure stories can develop a realistic mindset in young professionals, while the "Golden Stack" provides valuable tools for B2C and B2B businesses. Curiosity-driven hobbies can rejuvenate personal growth.

      Austin Hay emphasizes the importance of understanding the challenges and setbacks before experiencing success, both in life and business. He believes that sharing stories of failure and loss with younger professionals helps them to develop a realistic mindset and gain valuable experience. Additionally, Austin provides insights on the "Golden Stack," a recommended combination of tools for B2C and B2B businesses, including customer data platforms, analytics, email tools, data warehouses, and attribution tools. In a lighter note, the conversation reveals Austin's intellectual curiosity through his unconventional hobbies, such as drone piloting, which he pursued during the COVID-19 pandemic to explore new interests outside of work.

    • Austin Hay: Drone Enthusiast, Technology Advocate, and EducatorAustin Hay is passionate about drones, values community input, and is launching a marketing technology course, welcoming practitioners to join and provide feedback. Reach out to him for assistance with MarTech.

      Austin Hay is a drone enthusiast and is open to flying drones with others, but not in Washington, DC due to regulations. He has two drones, the Mavic Air 2 and the Skydio Enterprise. Austin Hay can be found on LinkedIn and Threads, and he is open to connecting with people and having conversations. He believes that Twitter can be detrimental to people's careers and prefers not to use it. Austin Hay will be launching a marketing technology course with Reforge in the fall and welcomes practitioners and those interested in MarTech to participate and provide feedback. He acknowledges that he is still learning and values input from the community to improve the course. Additionally, if anyone needs assistance with MarTech, they can reach out to Austin Hay.

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    Where to find Uri Levine:

    • X: https://twitter.com/urilevine1

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/uri-levine

    • Website: https://urilevine.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

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    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Uri’s background

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    (01:15:36) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the Solution: A Handbook for Entrepreneurs: https://www.amazon.com/Fall-Love-Problem-Solution-Entrepreneurs/dp/1637741987

    • Waze: https://www.waze.com/

    • Ben Horowitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behorowitz/

    • Ben Horowitz quote: https://quotefancy.com/quote/1635284/Ben-Horowitz-As-a-startup-CEO-I-slept-like-a-baby-I-woke-up-every-2-hours-and-cried

    • Michael Jordan quote: https://www.forbes.com/quotes/11194/#:~:text=I've%20lost%20almost%20300,that%20is%20why%20I%20succeed.

    • Steph Curry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry

    • How Airbnb Used Word of Mouth to Change the Travel Industry Forever: https://truested.com/story/airbnb

    • Space Mountain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Mountain_(Disneyland)

    • How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence

    • Steve Wozniak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wozniaksteve/

    • Uri’s post about the conference in Guatemala with Steve Wozniak: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/uri-levine_jewishnewyear-speakers-book-activity-6980089544079486976-0ADa/

    • Leonardo da Vinci quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9010638-simplicity-is-the-ultimate-sophistication-when-once-you-have-tasted

    • Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead

    • Nana Korobi Ya Oki: https://ikigaitribe.com/vlog/nana-korobi-ya-oki/

    That Will Never Work: The Birth of Netflix and the Amazing Life of an Idea: https://www.amazon.com/That-Will-Never-Work-Netflix/dp/0316530204

    Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break/dp/0735211299

    • 8 Great Chess Apps for Beginners and Grand Masters: https://www.wired.com/story/best-chess-apps/

    • Pontera: https://pontera.com/

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    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO)

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    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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    Referenced:

    • Canva: https://www.canva.com/

    • Melanie Perkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanieperkins

    • Cliff Obrecht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cliff-obrecht-79ba9920

    • Jennie Rogerson, Head of People, LinkedIn post about “season opener” events: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jennierogerson_season-opener-is-one-of-my-favourite-events-activity-7006815614556135424-73bD/

    Game of Thrones on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones

    • Woodstock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock

    • ‘Give Away Your Legos’ and Other Commandments for Scaling Startups: https://review.firstround.com/give-away-your-legos-and-other-commandments-for-scaling-startups/

    • Minimum viable product (MVP): https://www.productboard.com/glossary/minimum-viable-product-mvp

    • Canva’s SEO Strategy Is Elite: https://thegrowthplaybook.substack.com/p/canvas-seo-strategy-is-elite

    • The SEO Strategy That Led Canva to a $40 Billion Valuation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INyGKt6LAqM

    • Andrianes Pinantoan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrianes/

    • Canva Create: https://www.canva.com/canva-create/

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    The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon

    Where to find Matt Dixon:

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    • Website: https://www.jolteffect.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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    (18:18) An example of selling software

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    (29:41) The “pings and echoes” technique

    (34:49) Step 2: Offer a recommendation

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    Referenced:

    • A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting

    The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/0670922854

    The JOLT Effect: How High Performers Overcome Customer Indecision: https://www.amazon.com/JOLT-Effect-Performers-Overcome-Indecision/dp/0593538102

    • Gartner acquires CEB: https://www.gartner.com/en/about/acquisitions/history/ceb-acquisition

    Tiger King on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994

    • Why sourdough went viral: https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/08/04/why-sourdough-went-viral

    • Neil Rackham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Rackham

    • Status quo bias in decision-making: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

    • Omission bias: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/omission-bias

    • Gartner Magic Quadrant & Critical Capabilities: https://www.gartner.com/en/research/magic-quadrant

    • Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    • Stop Losing Sales to Customer Indecision: https://hbr.org/2022/06/stop-losing-sales-to-customer-indecision

    • Dentsply Sirona: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/

    • “We happy?” Briefcase scene from Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGchDuOpbhE

    • Nupro Freedom Cordless Prophy System: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/en-us/discover/discover-by-category/preventive/hygiene-handpieces.html

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart)

    Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart)

    Bangaly Kaba was an early growth PM at Facebook, head of growth at Instagram, and VP of Product at Instacart and is currently Director of Product at YouTube overseeing a global team working on creator monetization. Bangaly has also been a growth advisor to dozens of companies, including Twitter, on the board of multiple companies, and is an active angel investor. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • A simple framework for choosing where to work and what to work on

    • The importance of “understand work”

    • The “adjacent users” theory and how it can help you drive growth

    • Advice for coaching product managers

    • Invaluable lessons from his time at Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

    Mercury—The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/frameworks-for-growing-your-career-bangaly-kaba

    Where to find Bangaly Kaba:

    • X: https://twitter.com/iambangaly

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iambangaly/

    • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iambangaly/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Bangaly’s background

    (06:31) Choosing where to work and what to work on

    (08:39) The impact factor

    (10:53) Evaluating the environment

    (15:53) The manager component

    (18:27) The skills part of the equation

    (23:49) Advice on finding a mentor

    (25:42) The power of “understand work”

    (31:17) Operationalizing understand work

    (37:55) Balancing understand work

    (41:25) Managing complex change

    (45:26) Effective management of product managers

    (51:35) The role of product managers as coaches and team leaders

    (54:52) Driving growth through flywheels and value proposition

    (01:03:14) Understanding adjacent users

    (01:08:41) The role of partnerships and SEO in Instagram’s early growth

    (01:16:08) The secret behind Instagram’s growth

    (01:25:37) Lessons from Facebook

    (01:29:15) Failure corner

    (01:31:58) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Impact = Environment x Skills: How to Make Career Decisions: https://www.reforge.com/blog/how-to-make-career-decisions

    • Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey

    • Casey Winters’s blog: https://caseyaccidental.com/

    • Ben Thompson’s newsletter: https://stratechery.com/about/

    • Elena Verna on how B2B growth is changing, product-led growth, product-led sales, why you should go freemium not trial, what features to make free, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/elena-verna-on-why-every-company

    • George Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geolee/

    • Bangaly Kaba: The Path to 1 Billion: Lessons Learned from Growing Instagram—CXL LIVE 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ZHlb6kj_E

    • What Is ‘Dogfooding’?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html

    • Bloom’s taxonomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_taxonomy

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Mike Krieger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekrieger/

    • LeBron James: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James

    • Kobe Bryant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant

    •  Mike Krzyzewski: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski

    • John Calipari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calipari

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Chief: https://chief.com/

    • Jobs to be done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

    • The Adjacent User: https://brianbalfour.com/quick-takes/the-adjacent-user

    • How the biggest consumer apps got their first 1,000 users: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-the-biggest-consumer-apps-got

    • Alex Zhu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keepsilence/

    • From Brush to Canvas with Alex Zhu of Musical.ly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey15v81pwII

    • Selena Gomez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/selenagomez/

    • Kim Kardashian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kimkardashian/

    • Rob Andrews on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robby-andrews-64669720/

    • Instagram’s growth speeds up as it hits 700 million users: https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/26/instagram-700-million-users/

    Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

    Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World: https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Work-Focused-Success-Distracted/dp/1455586692

    Start at the End: How to Build Products That Create Change: https://www.amazon.com/Start-End-Products-Create-Change/dp/0525534423

    • Flighty app: https://www.flightyapp.com/

    • Adam Grant on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamgrant/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Why not asking for what you want is holding you back | Kenneth Berger (exec coach, first PM at Slack)

    Why not asking for what you want is holding you back | Kenneth Berger (exec coach, first PM at Slack)

    Kenneth Berger coaches startup leaders on how to prevent burnout, advocate for their desired lifestyle, and make a meaningful impact on the world. He’s spent more than 20 years in the tech industry, is a former founder backed by top investors, and was the first product manager at Slack. Kenneth’s core mission is to help startup leaders change the world by learning to ask for what they want, living with integrity, and building genuine relationships even with the people they find most challenging. Currently he is writing a book, Ask for What You Want, in which he aims to share his actionable strategies for creating change in the world. In our conversation, we explore:

    • Why asking for what you want is so impactful

    • Three steps to effectively ask for what you want

    • Challenges that arise when people struggle to ask for what they want

    • Why hearing “no” is a normal part of the process

    • The “dream behind the complaint” technique for uncovering desires

    • Kenneth’s experience of being fired three times from Slack

    • How embracing fear and discomfort is key to getting what you want

    • Why discipline is overrated

    Brought to you by:

    Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ask-for-what-you-want-kenneth-berger

    Where to find Kenneth Berger:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kberger

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@kberger

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kberger/

    • Website: https://kberger.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kenneth’s background

    (04:31) The importance of asking for what you want

    (06:36) Challenges that arise when people struggle to ask for what they want

    (08:09) A personal example of failing to ask for what you want

    (09:17) Signs this is a skill you need to work on

    (10:49) How to get better at knowing what you want

    (15:28) Why hearing “no” is a normal part of the process

    (17:29) Getting a “yes” vs. a “hell yes”

    (19:20) Step 1: Articulate what you want

    (24:07) Doing an integrity check

    (26:56) Step 2: Ask for what you want intentionally

    (30:45) Understanding your influence

    (34:48) Using complaints as inspiration

    (36:24) Internal family systems

    (38:00) Giving feedback

    (41:24) Step 3: Accept the response

    (45:22) Kenneth’s experience of being fired three times from Slack

    (57:30) Advice on being the first PM at a company or startup

    (01:04:58) Contrarian corner: anti-discipline

    (01:05:52) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Joining as the first product manager: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/joining-as-the-first-product-manager

    • Internal Family Systems: https://ifs-institute.com/

    • How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

    • The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

    • T-group weekends at Stanford: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/leadership/interpersonal-dynamics/facilitation-training-program/intro-tgroup

    • DBT skill DEAR MAN: https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/dbt-dear-man

    • Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT): https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22838-dialectical-behavior-therapy-dbt

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Stewart Butterfield on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/butterfield/

    • How to fire people with grace, work through fear, and nurture innovation | Matt Mochary (CEO coach): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work

    Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509

    • Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

    • Jonny Miller’s Nervous System Mastery course: https://nsmastery.com/lenny

    • Managing nerves, anxiety, and burnout | Jonny Miller (Nervous System Mastery): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/managing-nerves-anxiety-and-burnout

    The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable-ebook/dp/B00R3MHWUE

    Break Point on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81569920

    Living on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81582076

    • Wimbledon tennis: https://www.wimbledon.com

    • Wenshan Baozhong tea: https://redblossomtea.com/products/wenshan-baozhong?variant=31629962820

    • Tea From Taiwan: https://www.teafromtaiwan.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

    Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How Nubank builds a fanatical user base

    • Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth

    • Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score

    • The importance of strategic clarity

    • The role of category design in creating successful products

    • Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”

    • Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future

    Brought to you by:

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Mercury—The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be-fundamentally-different-jag-duggal

    Where to find Jag Duggal:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagduggal/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jag’s background

    (04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements

    (06:01) Nubank’s product development process

    (11:23) Nubank’s values

    (12:16) Building products people love fanatically

    (15:21) The Sean Ellis score

    (21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score

    (25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers

    (28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating

    (30:42) Pushing back effectively

    (34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research

    (37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis

    (42:01) Developing a strategy

    (52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”

    (53:10) Category design

    (57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future

    (01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines

    (01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking

    (01:09:23) AI corner

    (01:12:34) Failure corner

    (01:20:24) Key takeaways

    (01:22:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Nubank: https://nubank.com.br/en/

    • Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/

    • Robinhood: https://www.robinhood.com/

    • SoFi: https://www.sofi.com/

    • Affirm: https://www.affirm.com/

    • Lemonade: https://www.lemfi.com/

    • Bank of America: https://www.bankofamerica.com/

    • Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-achieves-world-record-with-nubolao

    • Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/nu-mexico-carries-out-first-financial-transaction-20-meters-under-the-depth-of-the-sea

    • David Vélez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-v%C3%A9lez-1004875

    • Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crisjunqueira

    • Edward Wible on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamedwardwible

    • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/

    • Churrascaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria

    • Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-culture-and-values/

    • Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/working-backwards-press-release-template-example-ian-mcallister/

    • Sean Ellis test: https://productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c

    • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket

    • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/

    • Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: https://international.nubank.com.br/company/ultravioleta-nubank-expands-its-premium-card-offer-and-adds-new-features-on-the-products-first-anniversary/

    • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY

    • The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: https://www.fastcompany.com/3006797/innovation-method-behind-swiffer-madness

    • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/

    • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard

    Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

    The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

    • How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher

    Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets: https://www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619

    Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • Citi: https://www.citi.com/

    • Santander Bank: https://www.santanderbank.com/

    • Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/

    • Harvard Kennedy School: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/

    • Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-wojcicki-b136a99/

    • Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCDRm_YRFg

    • Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/technology/14DoubleClick.html

    • Real-time bidding: https://support.google.com/authorizedbuyers/answer/6136272

    From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765/

    The Gilded Age on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age

    • Lomi: https://lomi.com/

    • Nubank careers: https://international.nubank.com.br/careers/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

    Vikrama Dhiman heads all things product at Gojek, including product management, design, program management, and research, across Indonesia, Singapore and India. He has over 16 years of experience building internet products, consults with Fortune 500 companies, and is among the most well-known and respected product leaders in all of Asia. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The most common traits among successful product managers

    • The 3 W’s framework for PM career growth

    • The Four A’s of leveling up in product management

    • The right way to push back as a PM

    • Common pitfalls that stall PM careers

    • Vikrama’s advice for transitioning into product management

    • Why intent alone is not enough

    Brought to you by:

    Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-pm-skill-development

    Where to find Vikrama Dhiman:

    • X: https://twitter.com/vikramadhiman

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrama/

    • Website: https://www.vikramadhiman.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Vikrama’s background

    (03:56) Three common traits among great PMs

    (07:09) The first W: What you produce

    (15:40) The second W: What you bring to the table

    (18:58) The third W: What’s your operating model?

    (20:36) Three traits that make you a great PM to work with

    (21:49) How to improve the quality and quantity of your outputs

    (23:26) The art of the pushback

    (26:55) Common factors that impede career growth

    (33:39) Vikrama’s personal reflections

    (39:33) Choosing which skill(s) to focus on developing

    (46:28) The ambiguity of the PM role

    (51:47) The 8 axis for PM growth

    (56:57) Contrarian corner: Why intent alone is not enough

    (59:30) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Taxi mafias, cash vaults, and 100% MoM growth: The story behind Southeast Asia’s biggest startup | Kevin Aluwi (Gojek): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom

    • How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-hire-for-measure-and-unlock

    • Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id

    • SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL

    • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

    • Crystal Widjaja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalwidjaja

    • Raditya Wibowo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raditya-wibowo-a0845436/?originalSubdomain=id

    • Sidu Ponnappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidup

    • Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your

    • Kevin Aluwi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/

    • Workday: https://www.workday.com/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    Small Data: The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Data-Clues-Uncover-Trends/dp/1250080681

    Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World: https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X

    Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555

    Miss Congeniality on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Congeniality-Sandra-Bullock/dp/B002R5HQDK

    Schitt’s Creek on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Schitts-Creek/dp/B083LDRW9F

    • DramaBox: https://www.dramaboxapp.com/

    Am I Overthinking This?: Over-Answering Life’s Questions in 101 Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Am-Overthinking-This-Over-answering-questions/dp/1452175861/

    Crazy Rich Asians on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Rich-Asians-Constance-Wu/dp/B07JGJFXBF

    • 9 Best Hawker Centers in Singapore—and What to Eat There: https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-hawker-centers-in-singapore-and-what-to-eat-there

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers)

    Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers)

    Hamilton Helmer is one of the world’s leading experts on business strategy and the author of the seminal book 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy, which provides a comprehensive framework for understanding what it really takes to achieve and sustain a competitive advantage. With more than three decades of experience in the strategic consulting industry, Hamilton has advised over 200 companies—from burgeoning startups to Fortune 100 giants—on how to identify, build, and leverage their unique strategic powers. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Potential sources of power that startups should develop from an early stage

    • Common misconceptions among companies about the types of power they possess

    • How power relates to strategy

    • The difference between a moat and a power

    • Practical strategies for non-leaders to leverage insights about power and strategy in their work

    • AI’s impact on competitive advantages and barriers to entry

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    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

    Where to find Hamilton Helmer:

    • X: https://twitter.com/hamiltonhelmer

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamilton-helmer-42983/

    • Website: https://7powers.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Hamilton’s background

    (04:08) When power becomes important

    (08:24) How strategy relates to power

    (12:09) How power informs strategy

    (14:46) The sequence of powers

    (21:13) Common misconceptions

    (24:39) Network effects vs. network economies

    (26:58) Uber’s success

    (29:16) Moats vs. powers

    (31:12) Strategies for non-leaders to leverage power and strategy

    (37:51) Advice on how to become a strategic thinker

    (39:27) AI’s impact on the seven powers

    (45:43) Why moving fast is not a power

    (50:24) Three things that create value in a company

    (51:16) The debt trajectory of the U.S.

    (56:35) Optimism for the future

    (59:25) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

    • John von Neumann: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

    • Pearl Harbor: https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/pearl-harbor

    • Where the Japanese Went Wrong at Pearl Harbor: https://pearlharbor.org/blog/where-japanese-went-wrong-pearl-harbor/

    • The ‘7 Powers’ of business success—from one of Netflix’s early investors: https://www.qualitycompounders.com.au/post/the-7-powers-of-business-success-from-one-of-netflix-s-early-investors

    • 7 Powers: Foundations of Business Strategy (Key Takeaways): https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-powers-foundations-business-strategy-key-takeaways-nikita-maloo/

    • Strategy Capital: https://strategycapital.com/

    • Warren Buffett: https://www.forbes.com/profile/warren-buffett/

    • Charlie Munger: https://www.forbes.com/profile/charles-munger/

    • Poor Charlie’s Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger: https://www.stripe.press/poor-charlies-almanack

    • Bill Gates reveals why Warren Buffett was an invaluable source of support during the stormiest period of his career: https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-interview-warren-buffett-support-microsoft-antitrust-lawsuit-2019-6

    •  Billionaire Warren Buffett’s Secret Love Affair With Castles, Revealed: https://www.thestreet.com/opinion/billionaire-warren-buffett-s-secret-love-affair-with-castles-revealed-14290973

    • Netflix didn’t kill Blockbuster—how Netflix almost lost the movie rental wars: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/22/how-netflix-almost-lost-the-movie-rental-wars-to-blockbuster.html

    • Michael Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorporter/

    • What Is Strategy?: https://hbr.org/1996/11/what-is-strategy

    • TSMC: https://www.tsmc.com/english

    • Toyota Production System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System

    • America will be left with ‘severe, irreversible scars’ if national debt goes unchecked. Now, a blockbuster report warns the bill is higher than believed, hitting $141T by 2054: https://fortune.com/2024/04/01/america-social-economic-scars-us-debt-gomes-price/

    • Ben S. Bernanke: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/people/ben-s-bernanke

    • Forty-four of 50 U.S. states worsen inequality with ‘upside-down’ taxes: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/states-wealth-inequality-taxes

    • Joseph A. Schumpeter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schumpeter

    Theory of Economic Development: https://www.amazon.com/Theory-Economic-Development-Science-Classics/dp/0878556982

    The Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Reality-Complete-Guide-Universe/dp/0679776311

    The Gene: An Intimate History: https://www.amazon.com/Gene-Intimate-History-Siddhartha-Mukherjee/dp/147673352X

    American Fiction on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/American-Fiction-Jeffrey-Wright/dp/B0CQKR72NX

    • Farahan Sarouk rugs: https://nazmiyalantiquerugs.com/persian-sarouk-farahan-rugs/

    • Rory Sutherland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland

    • Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/

    • Clint Eastwood quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/clint_eastwood_168005

    • Winston Churchill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

    Michelangelo, God’s Architect: The Story of His Final Years and Greatest Masterpiece: https://www.amazon.com/Michelangelo-Gods-Architect-Greatest-Masterpiece/dp/0691195498

    The Last Judgment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Judgment_(Michelangelo)

    • Theodore Roosevelt: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/theodore-roosevelt/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”, former pro poker player)

    This will make you a better decision maker | Annie Duke (author of “Thinking in Bets” and “Quit”, former pro poker player)

    Annie Duke is a former professional poker player, a decision-making expert, and a special partner at First Round Capital. She is the author of Thinking in Bets (a national bestseller) and Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away and the co-founder of the Alliance for Decision Education, a nonprofit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. In our conversation, we cover:

    • What Annie learned from the late Daniel Kahneman

    • The power of pre-mortems and “kill criteria”

    • The relationship between money and happiness

    • The power of “mental time travel”

    • The nominal group technique for better decision quality

    • How First Round Capital improved their decision-making process

    • Many tactical decision-making frameworks

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-better-decisions-annie-duke

    Where to find Annie Duke:

    • X: https://twitter.com/AnnieDuke

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-duke/

    • Website: https://www.annieduke.com/

    • Substack: https://www.annieduke.com/substack/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Annie’s background

    (03:53) Lessons from Daniel Kahneman: humility, curiosity, and open-mindedness

    (09:15) The importance of unconditional love in parenting

    (15:15) Mental time travel and “nevertheless”

    (20:06) The extent of improvement possible in decision-making 

    (24:54) Independent brainstorming for better decisions

    (35:36) Making sure people feel heard

    (42:41) The “3Ds” framework to make better decisions

    (44:49) Decision quality

    (55:46) Improving decision-making at First Round Capital

    (01:05:05) Using pre-mortems and kill criteria

    (01:10:15) Making explicit what’s implicit

    (01:10:55) The challenges of quitting and knowing when to walk away

    (01:19:23) Where to find Annie

    Referenced:

    • Daniel Kahneman, Who Plumbed the Psychology of Economics, Dies at 90: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/daniel-kahneman-dead.html

    • Adversarial collaboration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_collaboration

    • Does more money correlate with greater happiness?: https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/does-more-money-correlate-greater-happiness-Penn-Princeton-research#

    • Income and emotional well-being: A conflict resolved: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36857342/

    • Strategic decisions: When can you trust your gut?: https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/strategic-decisions-when-can-you-trust-your-gut

    • Cass Sunstein on X: https://twitter.com/CassSunstein

    • Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside

    • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market

    • First Round Capital: https://firstround.com/

    • Brett Berson on X: https://twitter.com/brettberson

    • Renegade Partners: https://www.renegadepartners.com/

    • Renata Quintini on X: https://twitter.com/rquintini

    • Roseanne Wincek on X: https://twitter.com/imthemusic

    • Josh Kopelman on X: https://twitter.com/joshk

    • Bill Trenchard on X: https://twitter.com/btrenchard

    • Linnea Gandhi on X: https://twitter.com/linneagandhi

    • Maurice Schweitzer on X: https://twitter.com/me_schweitzer

    • Problems with premortems: https://sjdm.org/presentations/2021-Poster-Gandhi-Linnea-debiasing-premortem-selfserving~.pdf

    • Create a Solid Plan on How to Fail Big This Year: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2020/02/07/create-a-solid-plan-on-how-to-fail-big-this-year/

    Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away: https://www.amazon.com/Quit-Power-Knowing-When-Walk/dp/0593422996/

    • Richard Thaler on X: https://twitter.com/R_Thaler

    • Stewart Butterfield on X: https://twitter.com/stewart

    • Glitch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch_(video_game)

    • How the Founder of Slack & Flickr Turned Colossal Failures into Billion-Dollar Companies: https://medium.com/swlh/how-the-founder-of-slack-flickr-turned-failures-into-million-and-billion-dollar-companies-7bcaf0d35d66

    • The Most Fascinating Profile You’ll Ever Read About a Guy and His Boring Startup: https://www.wired.com/2014/08/the-most-fascinating-profile-youll-ever-read-about-a-guy-and-his-boring-startup/

    • The Alliance for Decision Education: https://alliancefordecisioneducation.org/

    • Make Better Decisions course on Maven: https://maven.com/annie-duke/make-better-decisions

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour

    Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour

    Kayvon Beykpour was the longest-serving head of product at Twitter and was GM of Twitter’s consumer division until the platform was acquired by Elon Musk. He originally joined Twitter in 2015 through the acquisition of his company, Periscope, the largest live video streaming platform at the time. Periscope pioneered technology that inspired Instagram Live, TikTok Live, Facebook Live, and other social networks’ expansion into video streaming. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The story of being let go from Twitter after Elon’s acquisition

    • How he turned Twitter’s stagnant culture around

    • Kayvon’s thoughts on the limitations of frameworks like Jobs to Be Done

    • Why Periscope failed

    • Advice for building consumer products

    • When to copy, when to innovate

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/twitters-former-head-of-product-kayvon-beykpour

    Where to find Kayvon Beykpour:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kayvz

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kayvz/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kayvon’s background

    (04:31) Getting Elon up to speed at Twitter

    (11:34) The story of being let go from Twitter after Elon’s acquisition

    (21:09) Changing the product culture at Twitter

    (29:44) Building the “hide replies” feature

    (32:02) Sacred crows, taking bold bets, and reigniting growth

    (34:28) Aquihires and their impact

    (42:40) Tips for successful acquisitions and staffing

    (47:00) The limitations of frameworks like JTBD

    (53:20) Signs you’ve gone too far with a framework

    (57:44) Lessons from building Periscope

    (01:00:41) Reasons why Periscope failed

    (01:07:24) The challenges of implementing video at Twitter

    (01:12:05) Copying ideas in good taste

    (01:17:58) How to get better at building consumer products

    (01:19:51) What Kayvon is building

    (01:20:31) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/

    • What it’s like to sell your startup for ~$120 million before it’s even launched: Meet Twitter’s new prized possession, Periscope: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-periscope-and-why-twitter-bought-it-2015-3

    • Walter Isaacson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/walter-isaacson-b8b81520/

    • Elon Musk on X: https://twitter.com/elonmusk

    • Parag Agrawal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parag-agrawal-5a14742a/

    • Jack Dorsey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-dorsey-a43b07242/

    • Blackboard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Inc.

    • Keith Coleman on X: https://twitter.com/kcoleman

    • Esther Crawford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esthercrawford/

    • Twitter acquires Chroma Labs: https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/twitter-acquires-chroma-labs-story-aqvcRPAoYXqXJuAbefA6cN.html

    • John Barnett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarnettt/

    • Jobs to Be Done framework: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90

    • Hot takes and techno-optimism from tech’s top power couple: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/

    • Nike Is Unveiling the Kobe 11 Tomorrow Using Periscope: https://sneakernews.com/2015/12/13/nike-is-unveiling-the-kobe-11-tomorrow-using-periscope/

    • Chris Sacca’s website: https://chrissacca.com/

    • Facebook Live: https://www.facebook.com/formedia/tools/facebook-live

    • Kevin Hart on X: https://twitter.com/KevinHart4real

    • Clubhouse: https://www.clubhouse.com/

    • Vine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_(service)

    • Paul Davison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davison/

    • Rohan Seth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohanseth/

    Cryptonomicon: https://www.amazon.com/Cryptonomicon-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0380788624

    Reamde: https://www.amazon.com/Reamde-Novel-Neal-Stephenson-ebook/dp/B004XVN0WW

    The Name of the Wind: https://www.amazon.com/Name-Wind-Kingkiller-Chronicle-Book-ebook/dp/B0010SKUYM

    Star Trek official site: https://www.startrek.com/

    Dune: part 2: https://www.dunemovie.com/

    Oppenheimer on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-movies/oppenheimer

    • Tokyo Vice on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/tokyo-vice/e7d93204-7f98-4e62-ab52-6c1da053f942

    Devs on Hulu: https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/devs

    • Nick Offerman on X: https://twitter.com/nick_offerman

    3 Body Problem on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81024821

    • Perplexity AI: https://www.perplexity.ai/

    • Particle: https://www.particle.news/

    • Crokinole board game: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/521/crokinole

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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