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    #2096 - Josh Dubin & Sheldon Johnson

    Providing at-risk youth with opportunities, support, and qualified individuals who can empathize with their struggles is crucial for breaking negative cycles and empowering them towards a better future.

    en-usFebruary 01, 2024

    About this Episode

    Josh Dubin is the Executive Director of the Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice, a criminal justice reform advocate, and civil rights attorney.

    Sheldon Johnson is a criminal justice reform advocate. He works with at risk youth at the Queens Defenders in New York.


    https://cardozo.yu.edu/directory/josh-dubin

    🔑 Key Takeaways

    • The criminal justice system lacks oversight, resulting in unjust sentences. Addressing poverty and providing equal opportunities are essential to creating a just society, but often overlooked.
    • Historical factors, social conditions, and personal stories underscore the need to address systemic racism, provide equal opportunities, and break the cycle of incarceration for marginalized communities.
    • Sheldon Johnson's story sheds light on the dire consequences of neglected systems and the urgent need for comprehensive reforms to support marginalized communities and prevent cycles of trauma and criminality.
    • It is important to understand the impact of historical and social conditions on individuals affected by addiction and criminal behavior, rather than making harsh judgments.
    • The environment we grow up in can shape our values and actions, emphasizing the need for a supportive and positive environment to encourage positive development.
    • Personal growth and reevaluating our choices are essential in breaking harmful cycles and taking responsibility for our actions, as they can affect not only ourselves but also our loved ones and communities.
    • Sheldon Johnson's story demonstrates the power of resilience and self-reflection in transforming one's life, even in the face of adversity within the criminal justice system.
    • Sheldon Johnson's story highlights the potential for personal growth and change within the prison system, emphasizing the importance of support systems and counseling programs in both prison and communities.
    • Having a strong will to live and finding a reason to live can drive personal growth and success, while also motivating individuals to help others and make a positive impact in their lives.
    • Through direct collaboration with legal authorities, mentoring programs, and job readiness training, Sheldon Johnson and his team are facilitating positive change for young individuals facing gun charges, promoting rehabilitation and alternatives to incarceration.
    • Providing at-risk youth with opportunities, support, and qualified individuals who can empathize with their struggles is crucial for breaking negative cycles and empowering them towards a better future.
    • Each individual has the power to make a difference in the criminal justice system by getting involved and advocating for change at the grassroots level.
    • Academic success is not the only factor for success in law. Common sense and practical knowledge are equally important, and taking action to make a change is crucial.
    • Consumers should be informed about the use of prison labor in producing popular food brands, prompting them to demand transparency and fair labor conditions while making purchasing decisions.
    • The criminal justice system has flaws, particularly in forensic science, leading to wrongful convictions. Defense attorneys must protect their clients' rights, and individuals need to take action to address systemic inequalities and strive for a fairer system.
    • By providing more resources and support, we can break the cycle of crime and incarceration, helping ex-offenders successfully reintegrate into society and reduce recidivism rates.
    • Formerly incarcerated individuals, like Michael Caprio, can be powerful agents of change and play a crucial role in filling the gaps of support left by elected representatives and government agencies. More support is needed for dyslexia and reading disabilities among the incarcerated population.
    • Inadequate literacy skills hinder inmates' reintegration into society and their ability to navigate daily life, advocate for themselves, and understand legal processes, highlighting the importance of literacy programs in prisons.
    • The experiences of black judges, prosecutors, and correctional officers reveal the challenges they face in balancing representation and conformity within predominantly white institutions, highlighting the need to recognize and address biases for fairness and justice.
    • The current criminal justice system is deeply flawed, with racial disparities, financial burden, and a lack of focus on rehabilitation. Meaningful reform is needed to prioritize fairness, community outreach, and substance abuse treatment.
    • The underfunding of historically Black colleges and universities reveals systemic issues and inequalities, highlighting the need for fair funding and comprehensive reforms in the education system to provide equal opportunities for all students.
    • Working together and pooling resources can have a meaningful impact in advocating for justice. Financial support, conducting necessary reports, and creating impactful videos are crucial. The Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice and Queens Defenders provide avenues for involvement, and the potential for widespread change exists when individuals and organizations unite for a common cause.

    📝 Podcast Summary

    Flawed Criminal Justice System and Neglecting Root Causes

    The criminal justice system is deeply flawed and lacks oversight. Sheldon's case highlights how one judge can hand out an unjust sentence without anyone questioning it. There is a dire need for someone to comb through these individual cases and fight for justice. The system is overwhelmed and fails to address the root causes of crime, such as poverty and lack of opportunity. Instead, vast amounts of money are allocated to other purposes, while neglecting the impoverished communities that need support. To truly make America great again, we need to focus on providing equal opportunities for everyone, giving them a chance to succeed. We have the power to change lives and create a more just society, but sadly, most of the time, we choose to do nothing.

    Addressing Systemic Racism and Limited Opportunities

    Systemic racism and social conditions play a significant role in the cycle of incarceration and limited opportunities in certain communities. The conversation highlighted the impact of historical factors such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, and redlining on present-day issues like sentencing disparities and access to a fair trial. It emphasized the importance of addressing these issues in politics and society. The personal stories shared by Sheldon Johnson shed light on the effects of growing up in a marginalized community, being a child of deaf adults, and experiencing identity crises. The conversation also emphasized the importance of creating equal opportunities for everyone, regardless of race or background, to break the cycle of incarceration and provide a chance for success.

    The Devastating Consequences of Systemic Failures on Young Lives

    The experiences of Sheldon Johnson highlight the profound impact of systemic failures on individuals, particularly young and vulnerable ones. Sheldon's journey from being a victim of abuse in his school to being placed in psychiatric hospitals and eventually ending up in juvenile detention facilities is a sobering reminder of how broken systems can perpetuate cycles of trauma and criminality. It is a stark illustration of the lack of support, resources, and understanding for marginalized communities, especially young black individuals. This narrative forces us to confront the devastating consequences of neglect and the urgent need for comprehensive reforms in education, mental health, and the criminal justice system to prevent further harm and promote healing and opportunity for every child.

    The government's involvement in the drug trade and its consequences on inner cities.

    The government's involvement in the drug trade had far-reaching consequences, particularly in the inner cities. The CIA's involvement in selling drugs to fund their operations is not disputed, and the ease of reproducing and the cheapness of crack cocaine only worsened the situation. This, coupled with the harsh sentencing disparities and the introduction of mandatory minimums, led to the separation of families, leaving children to fend for themselves. These social conditions, compounded by historical segregation and Jim Crow laws, created an environment that fueled addiction and criminal behavior. It is crucial to consider the impact of these conditions on individuals and to seek a deeper understanding rather than resorting to harsh judgments.

    The Influence of Environment on Choices and Actions

    The environment one is surrounded by can greatly influence their choices and actions. Sheldon Johnson's experiences growing up in a community filled with crime and lacking proper guidance led him down a dangerous path. He learned survival tactics and adopted the values of his role models, who were involved in illegal activities. Going to prison was seen as a rite of passage in his community, and this distorted perspective influenced his desire to go to Rikers Island. As a result, he became involved in selling drugs to support his family and lost sight of what was permissible and impermissible. Despite making some positive impacts in his family's life, the values and morals he adopted were warped and could have long-lasting consequences. This highlights the importance of creating a positive and nurturing environment for individuals, especially during their formative years.

    The consequences of our choices and actions

    Our choices and actions can have significant consequences on our lives and the lives of others. Sheldon's story shows how one simple mistake, compounded by a series of poor decisions, led to a cycle of crime and incarceration. He found himself caught in a world where his moral compass became warped, justifying illegal actions towards those who owed him money. However, with maturity and self-reflection, Sheldon recognized the wrongness of his actions. This highlights the importance of personal growth and reevaluating our choices. We must strive to break harmful cycles and take responsibility for our actions, as they can impact not only ourselves but also our loved ones and communities.

    Transforming Lives Through Education and Personal Growth in Prison

    Sheldon Johnson's experience underscores the flaws within the criminal justice system. Despite being handed a severe sentence of fifty years without proper investigation, Sheldon found himself questioning his future. Realizing that prison either brings out the best or worst in people, he witnessed how education and personal growth could transform individuals for the better. Determined to change his life, Sheldon made the decision to leave behind his gang affiliations and pursue education. Despite facing resistance from within the system, Sheldon's commitment to following the rules made him a threat to those who sought to maintain control. His story highlights the importance of resilience, self-reflection, and the potential for personal growth, even in the most challenging circumstances.

    Overcoming adversity in prison: Sheldon Johnson's journey towards growth and transformation.

    Prison, despite its harsh conditions, can sometimes provide individuals with the opportunity for personal growth and transformation. Sheldon Johnson's journey exemplifies this, as he made the conscious decision to step away from the gang organization and actively pursued education and counseling programs while incarcerated. His commitment to change led him to earn his GED, engage in correspondence courses, and learn about concepts like positive visualization and conflict resolution. Additionally, he recognized the harmful effects of substance abuse and chose to quit smoking cigarettes and using drugs. Despite the toxicity and dangers present in prison, Sheldon's determination to improve his life ultimately saved him. This narrative raises questions about the lack of support systems and resources available to troubled individuals in their communities, urging us to consider the need for early intervention and effective counseling programs outside the prison system.

    The Power of Will and Purpose

    Having a strong will to live and finding a reason to live can be a powerful driving force for success and overcoming challenges. Sheldon Johnson's story of resilience and determination showcases how having a purpose, such as family or a desire to beat the system, can lead to transformation and personal growth. His experience in prison and the obstacles he faced made him passionate about helping others, particularly young individuals, before they make the same mistakes. Sheldon's credibility as a messenger comes from his own firsthand experience, which sets him apart from those who may have only studied the subject. This highlights the importance of understanding and empathy when trying to make a difference in someone's life.

    Transforming the Criminal Justice System through Empowerment

    There is hope for positive change and rehabilitation in the criminal justice system. Sheldon Johnson and his team of Client Advocates are working directly with district attorneys and judges to provide alternatives to incarceration for young individuals facing gun charges. Through their youth emergent leadership program, they offer job readiness training, GED assistance, and connections to employment opportunities. Sheldon's own experience in theater and debate taught him critical thinking and situational cognizance, which he now uses to empower others. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the long-term consequences of one's actions and the manipulative tactics within the system. With the support of individuals like Josh Dubin and organizations like the Queen's Defenders, positive change is happening, one person at a time.

    Creating Change through Empathy and Opportunities

    Opportunities and representation are crucial in creating real change and providing help to at-risk youth. It is not enough to simply sympathize with their struggles; it is essential to empathize and understand where they come from. Josh Dubin recognizes that his own qualifications may not always be the most effective in reaching and inspiring these kids, acknowledging the need for individuals who have experienced similar situations to guide them. Sheldon Johnson's program demonstrates the power of providing opportunities and support, such as education, job training, and financial literacy, to help break the cycle of negative behaviors and create a path towards a better future. By exposing young people to different environments and teaching them civic engagement, they gain the knowledge and tools to make positive choices and have a voice in their communities. Real change and help come from qualified individuals who can identify and empathize with the challenges these kids face and provide them with the resources to succeed.

    Taking Action for Criminal Justice Reform

    There is a need for change and action in the criminal justice system. The cost of incarceration is exorbitant, especially when considering privatized prisons that profit from human beings. The high rates of incarceration in the United States compared to other countries is alarming and needs to be addressed. However, change can start at the grassroots level. Individuals can get involved by volunteering, reaching out to public defender's offices or civic engagement organizations, and offering their help. It is important not to turn a blind eye to societal issues until they directly affect us. By being proactive and responsive, we can make a difference and advocate for change.

    The Importance of Common Sense in the Field of Law

    Our society places too much emphasis on intelligence and academic success, especially in fields like law. The most effective lawyers are not necessarily the smartest or the ones with the highest grades. Instead, they possess something that most lawyers don't: common sense and street smarts. They marry their practical knowledge with what they learned in school, creating a winning combination. Grades and test scores may matter to some extent, but they shouldn't be the sole determinants of success. It's important not to be intimidated by challenges and instead focus on making a change in one small way. By taking action and creating forward momentum, we can start to see results and work towards a better system.

    Unveiling the Hidden Workforce: Prison Labor and Its Connection to the Food Industry

    Our prisons are tied to a hidden workforce that produces goods for popular food brands. Many of us unknowingly support this system when we buy these products at the supermarket. Just like we condemn slave shops in other countries, we should also be aware of the labor conditions in our own country. There should be labels on these products indicating if they were made by prisoners or workers earning extremely low wages. This information can greatly impact consumers' purchasing decisions. Prison labor and its connection to slavery is deeply rooted in history, exploiting the free labor of vulnerable populations. It is crucial for policymakers and reform advocates to work towards changing these practices and educating the public on the dangers of relying on unreliable forensic evidence in our criminal justice system.

    Flaws in the Criminal Justice System and the Importance of Constitutional Rights

    There are significant flaws in the criminal justice system, particularly when it comes to forensic science and the rights of individuals. The scientific community has discredited many forensic techniques, except for DNA, which itself has limitations due to new technologies detecting "touch" DNA. This has led to wrongful convictions based on unreliable evidence like bite mark analysis. It is crucial for defense attorneys to stand up for their clients' constitutional rights and challenge unjust practices in court. The constitution was designed to protect everyone's rights, but systemic inequalities exist due to factors like race and socioeconomic status. Change is necessary, and individuals must take action and reach out to organizations that strive for justice. Building a fairer system requires individual thought, questioning, and a focus on the potential of all individuals, regardless of their past mistakes or circumstances.

    Rethinking the Prison System for Successful Reintegration

    The current prison system fails to rehabilitate and prepare individuals for reintegration into society. Instead of providing support and educational opportunities, the system often perpetuates a cycle of crime and incarceration. Many inmates come out stronger and wiser, but their potential goes wasted due to the lack of resources and assistance available to them. This leads to preventable tragedies and challenges in adapting to the outside world, such as navigating technology and finding employment. To break this cycle, institutions need to change and become more proactive and responsive in addressing the needs of individuals coming out of prisons. Reevaluating the criteria for emergency services and providing practical skills training are crucial steps towards reducing recidivism and leveling the playing field for ex-offenders.

    Supporting Reintegration and Rehabilitation: The Role of Formerly Incarcerated Individuals

    Formerly incarcerated individuals play a crucial role in supporting reintegration and rehabilitation efforts. Programs like Hudson Link in New York provide post-secondary education, housing, and reentry services to help individuals successfully transition back into society. These programs are particularly important because they fill in gaps left by elected representatives and government agencies. Additionally, the involvement of individuals like Michael Caprio, the former warden of Sing Sing Prison, highlights the power of personal transformation and the potential for those who were once part of the criminal justice system to be agents of change. The conversation also sheds light on the high prevalence of dyslexia and reading disabilities among the incarcerated population, emphasizing the need for more support in this area.

    The Urgent Need for Literacy Programs in Prisons

    There is a pressing need to address the issue of literacy skills in prison inmates. A study showed that 80% of Texas prison inmates struggle with reading, with approximately half of them likely to be dyslexic. This lack of literacy skills hinders their ability to reintegrate into society and follow basic instructions or navigate through daily life necessities. The Department of Corrections has failed in its responsibility to rehabilitate individuals. Additionally, the inability to read also affects due process within the legal system, as individuals may not be able to understand important paperwork or advocate for themselves effectively. This emphasizes the fundamental right to read and highlights the importance of literacy programs within prisons.

    Subjective biases and pressures faced by black individuals in positions of power within the criminal justice system.

    The criminal justice system can be influenced by subjective biases, even among individuals from marginalized communities who hold positions of power. Sheldon's experience highlights how black judges, prosecutors, and correctional officers may feel pressured to be harsher on people from their own community to appear fair and unbiased. This pressure can lead to a lack of objectivity and empathy, ultimately impacting the lives of those affected by the system. It also sheds light on the challenges faced by black individuals in positions of authority, as they navigate the delicate balance between representation and the pressure to conform within predominantly white institutions. Recognizing and addressing these biases is crucial for promoting fairness and justice in the criminal justice system.

    The Flaws and Inequities in the Criminal Justice System

    The criminal justice system is deeply flawed and in need of significant reform. The conversation between Sheldon Johnson, Josh Dubin, and Joe Rogan highlights the disparity and inequity present in law enforcement and incarceration. It is disturbing to see how white and black individuals are treated differently for the same offenses, even by law enforcement officers themselves. The conversation also sheds light on the financial implications of the system, with millions of dollars being spent on prisons instead of investing in effective community outreach and substance abuse treatment programs. The current system perpetuates suffering and dependence rather than promoting productivity and happiness. It is clear that change is necessary, but implementing such change requires courageous leadership and a shift in priorities away from political and personal interests.

    Funding Disparities in Education and the Importance of Equity

    In short, one big takeaway from the discussion is that funding disparities in education, particularly in relation to historically Black colleges and universities (HBCUs), highlight systemic issues and inequalities. The underfunding of institutions like FAMU in Florida is a result of a long-standing legacy of segregation and discriminatory practices. The governor's refusal to address and rectify these disparities demonstrates a lack of concern for creating a level playing field and ensuring equal opportunities for all students. Moreover, the focus on political reasons rather than the well-being and advancement of education further perpetuates these inequalities. The importance of equitable funding and access to education cannot be understated, as it directly impacts individuals' lives and contributes to breaking cycles of incarceration and promoting positive outcomes. In order to address these issues, it is crucial to continue advocating for fair funding and comprehensive reforms in the education system.

    Collaboration and community support in the fight for justice and criminal justice reform.

    Collaboration and community support are crucial in the fight for justice and criminal justice reform. Josh Dubin and Sheldon Johnson highlight the importance of working together and pooling resources to make a meaningful impact. They emphasize the need for financial support to conduct necessary reports and create impactful videos that humanize individuals involved in these cases. They also mention the Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice and Queens Defenders as avenues for those who want to contribute or get involved. Additionally, they hint at a major announcement with a prestigious law firm and partnership with Columbia University, highlighting the potential for widespread change when individuals and organizations come together for a common cause. Overall, this conversation underscores the power of collective action and the difference it can make in advocating for justice.

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