S3E25 Cabana Talk with Osahon Obasuaye: The Cult of Cancellation

Lerone A. Martin, Ph.D. is Director of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute (MLKREI) and Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Stanford University. A prolific author, lecturer, and influencer, Dr. Martin discusses his most recent ground-breaking book, The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover: How the FBI Aided and Abetted the Rise of Christian Nationalism with Ken. Thanks to a series of requests to and lawsuits against the FBI under the Freedom of Information Act, Martin has acquired a treasure trove of documents hidden for decades in the Bureau's file cabinets. This new biography of the man whose name became synonymous with the Federal Bureau of Investigation takes us into the up-until-now neglected religious and spiritual underpinnings of Hoover's life and mission. Of surprising interest to Ken, the book convincingly connects the dots between the lifelong FBI Director Hoover and evangelicalism's early champions: Billy Graham, Carl F. H. Henry, Dr. Nelson Bell, and Christianity Today. But the story Lerone Martin tells in his new book is much larger, exposing and expounding a virulent form of Christian Nationalism (Americanism) all the way back to the 1920s. Dr. Martin, whose academic career takes him from Oral Roberts University (first-year undergraduate and athlete), Anderson University (B.A.), Princeton Theological Seminary (M.Div.), and Emory University (Ph.D.), shares his personal journey as a minister and now professor and Director of the MLKREI at Stanford University. SHOW NOTES

This is a brief supplement to Beach Talk #117 which included the title: The Pairing Nobody Wants. Last night changed that. Ken and Betsey connect the day after to review the historic speech that will live in the history books. It's a pairing of old guys - but the 81-year-old shows his mettle, his endurance, his passion, and his priorities. It's what our nation needs.

Betsey, who has been a proud supporter of Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg since he ran for the presidency in 2020, would like to see him on the ballot again. Both Ken and Betsey share a deep appreciation for our aging President Joe Biden. His accomplishments are solid. He's a decent human being. His priorities are in line. But his approval ratings are a clear indicator that he is not inspiring America. Perhaps even more glaringly, his opponent's age shows, too. Ken and Betsey agree that the 45th President is unfit and dangerous, suffering a more and more public dementia. He must be defeated. There are some terrific candidates, including Secretary Pete. Nikki Haley's searing assessment of Donald Trump rings true. Ken and Betsey switch subjects to the Alabama ruling on IVF, and a Christian Nationalism that claims the Bible as its authority. They discuss the frequent assertion by the "Christian" right that apart from the Bible, there is no morality; no ethics. They review Ken's most recent Substack article on that subject. Show NotesKen's Substack | Become a Patron

The Alabama Supreme Court has lit the fuse exploding into yet another level of controversy in our divided nation. It's not just the question of when life begins, but whether the religious convictions espoused by a few will be imposed as the law of the land on everyone else. The two Kens talk about how this development underscores the threat of Christian nationalism on our democratic way of life. It's an attempt to "colonize America." Fong shares his experience, both personal and pastoral, with in vitro fertilization (IVF). Kemp shares his viewing of the Rob Reiner documentary God and Country. It's another lively exchange between the two podcasters - both former pastors. They give a shout-out to fellow podcaster Brad Onishi for his appearance on NPR's Fresh Air with Terry Gross. SHOW NOTES

Ken's Substack | Become a Patron | The Two Kens With Brad Onishi

When Ken's Substack article (The Big Beautiful Wall) appeared on Philip Yancey's popular blog (Hole in the Wall), among the many comments was a grieving father who shared the tragic loss of his 19-year-old-son to fentanyl poisoning. Ken reached out to Mark Bodnarczuk to hear more of a story that would underscore the tragic crisis facing our nation. Mark's academic pedigree took him from the Nazarene tradition to Wheaton College, the University of Chicago, and on to Harvard. He currently works for Stanford University in the director’s office of the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory as an institutional program manager. Mark has written a book (to be released this summer) telling his son's story in detail - the all-too-easy access to counterfeit pills and fentanyl poisoning. Mark also shares how the sudden, indescribable loss has changed him - leaving him with a new understanding of his own faith, the power of forgiveness, and a grace that sustains. In this touching conversation, Mark shares the journey of his extraordinary son Thomas, the otherwise ordinary evening on the Internet that took his life, the source of the illegal, toxic drug, and his encounter with the perpetrator who would face criminal charges. Mark also encourages every American to be aware, engaged, and alerted to the need to put an end to this deadly crisis. SHOW NOTES

Ken's Substack | Philip Yancey's Blog Post - Hole in the Wall

Today we re-air Ken's conversation with Tim Whitaker, creator of The New Evangelicals. Ken begins with some commentary on the new Rob Reiner documentary, God and Country.

Ken welcomes fellow sojourner and podcaster, Tim Whitaker. Tim is "Creator and Facilitator" of The New Evangelicals, a highly popular and widely followed non-profit that sponsors podcasts and commentary that appear regularly on YouTube, Instagram, and TikToc. His productions include everything from short spots to full-length interviews, In his conversation with Ken, Tim tells his story - from home-schooled kid to drummer in a worship band to sold-out Jesus-follower to high-energy podcast host. As his view of the gospel expanded, he began to resist evangelical Trumpism and then consider the validity of Pro-Choice, then develop LGBTQ sensibilities. As a consequence, Tim's lead pastor ceremoniously dismissed him from his cherished role as lead drummer in the worship band. That moment triggered a period he calls "deconstruction." Tim brings a truthful and direct challenge to an evangelicalism that has become a voting block for right-wing political causes, election denial, conspiracy theories, Christian Nationalism, the Trump cult, and a distortion of what Tim believes to be biblical Christianity. 

Ken and Tim have interviewed many of the same influencers, authors, and activists including  Brad Onishi, Lisa Sharon Harper, Kristen Kobes Du Mez, Pete Enns, David Gushee, Jemar Tisby, Diana Butler Bass, and Ben Cremer. Tim has also welcomed other notables to his podcast such as Anthea Butler, Matthew Taylor, Katherine Stewart, Tripp Fuller, Katelyn Beaty, Sam Perry, Andrew Seidel, Dante Stewart, and Dr. Russell Moore. Tim calls out people like Charlie Kirk, Sean Feucht,  Candace Owens,  and John MacArthur among others as perpetrators of false narratives that have misled many. 

It's a lively conversation you won't want to miss.

SHOW NOTES - Including links to Tim and  THE NEW EVANGELICALS

Original Air Date: April 2023

Ken welcomes back essayist, teacher, guidance counselor, and ordained minister Nathaniel Manderson from his home in Boston. Last Summer, Nate took thirty days to walk the 500 mile Camino do Santiago pilgrimage tradition says was taken by St. James, the Apostle. It's the same journey memorialized by the Emilio Estevez film starring his father, Martin Sheen called The Way. Nate shares his remarkable journey - the prompting to go, the people he met, lessons along the way, and the intensely emotional climax that final day as he entered the Cathedral de Santiago de Compostela (consecrated in 1211 C.E.) Just a few days before their conversation, Nate's most recent opinion piece was published in the Boston Globe entitled Democrats: Let Me (Re)Introduce You to the Working Class. Even with his advanced academic degrees, he considers himself a member of that working class. Nate is a contributor to the popular news site SALON. His author page makes the introduction: 

Nathaniel Manderson was educated at a conservative seminary, trained as a minister, ordained through the American Baptist Churches USA and guided by liberal ideals. Throughout his career he has been a pastor, a career counselor, an academic adviser, a high school English teacher and an advocate for first-generation and low-income students, along with a paper delivery man, a construction worker, a FedEx package handler and whatever else he could do to take care of his family.

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Ken and Betsey connect for another lively talk on their imaginary beach. Ken shares his encounter with the atmospheric river, which leads to the deluge of headlines over the 14th Amendment, our aging candidates for President, and the collapse of the bi-partisan border bill. The conversation was recorded before the Superbowl, but Betsey predicted a Chiefs victory and stellar performance from Mahomes and Kelce. They comment on the "Swift Effect." Betsey's interim pastor challenges her congregation to use caution regarding those weaponized "clobber passages" in the Bible. She addresses how our language and policies concerning the LGBTQ community is a prime cause of young people abandoning the church. Ken and Betsey review the Grammys and their favorite moments.

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Brenda Renderos and Lamont Hartman join Ken for a lively discussion around the illusive dream of reconciliation in our neighborhoods, politics, and churches. Lamont is the lead Pastor of Reconcile Church - a place for seekers, the disillusioned, and those who no longer relate to traditional places of worship. Brenda traveled with Ken on the Civil Rights Tour of the South and has worked along with him at the Center for Restorative Justice. She is a Certified Life Coach with a focus on spiritual direction. Brenda, Lamont and Ken affirm that a commitment to racial reconciliation is hard work - and our existing churches and institutions have fallen well short of facing our own complicity, leaving many feeling alienated and isolated. Lamont is a PhD candidate at San Francisco Theological Seminary. His dissertation focuses on the plight of pastors of color in historically, predominantly white churches. They finish with a lively review of Lamont's Orange County event on MLK Day. SHOW NOTES

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The southern border crisis, Gaza, and untenable beliefs prompt Kemp and Fong to cut loose in a lively discussion. The podcast allows these two retired former pastors to share their genuine convictions without fearing losing their employment. Kemp shares his experience at the opening in the "Big Beautiful Wall," near the small town of Jacumba featured in this week's edition of 60 Minutes. Current headlines reveal that the do-nothing Congress has failed again to act. Funding is desperately needed to bring relief to border agents, manage processing, and stem the tide of out-of-control crossings. Fong takes the conversation to Israel and the unfavorable response to Biden's support for the Netanyahu government's "overkill" in the Gaza war. The two Kens review some theological assumptions rooted in long-held beliefs that are indefensible today. Fong has been asked to address his views on heaven and hell with a group of retired ministers and missionaries - it opens up a free-wheeling review of the two Kens' theological journey on the subject. SHOW NOTES

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