music history

She was our very first interviewee back in Episode 1 — and we finally reach the conclusion of Hazell Dean's Stock Aitken Waterman journey with her version of "Better Off Without You", which was released in 1991. The Queen of Hi-NRG joins us once again to discuss recording a song previously cut by Lonnie Gordon and her thoughts about the SAW sound struggling in the early '90s. Girl group Delage were also finding it hard to land a hit with original SAW tune "Running Back For More" missing the mark. Karina and Emma from the group return to chat about the track and Delage's metamorphosis into Eden once they left the Hit Factory. Pat Sharp and Mick Brown also pop in to talk about their 1991 charity cover, "Gimme Some", and we hear from Jason Donovan, Mike Stock and Sharon McPhilemy about "R.S.V.P." — the song that gave Jason's sound and image a makeover. We also look at his first foray into musical theatre and the ramifications of that on his working relationship with SAW.

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While "What Do I Have To Do" by Kylie Minogue stands on its own two feet as a song, the impact of the single was increased greatly due to the striking imagery on display on the single cover and in the music video. Celebrity stylist David Thomas takes us right back to the early years of his career and tells the story of how he was hired to style the video. His desire to take Kylie into a much more fashionable direction was something she was right on board with and their collaboration produced some of the most iconic visual images of her career. Video director David Hogan, who also joins us on the podcast, delivered an edgy, stylish, exciting music video that remains a fan favourite — and he recalls how it came together and some of the challenges posed by particular scenes. Responsible for the phrase "SexKylie" being coined, the video for "What Do I Have To Do" was a huge step in Kylie's career that further proved how in control of her image she now was. 

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 In 1991, it was another bold step forward for Kylie Minogue, and in the decades since, "What Do I Have To Do" has cemented its place among fans' all-time favourites from her extensive back catalogue. But the third single from Rhythm Of Love didn't come together easily, with a lengthy period of time spent mixing the club-influenced track — and remixing it. Songwriters and producers Mike Stock and Matt Aitken, mixers Phil Harding and Ian Curnow, and engineer Peter Day all join us to discuss the evolution of the song and the inspirations and thought processes behind the different versions. Backing vocalists Miriam Stockley and Mae McKenna also return to the podcast to reveal how Kylie threw the rulebook out the window when it came to recording the BVs for "What Do I Have To Do". 

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To get you in the mood for Valentine's Day, let's indulge in some of the filthiest lyrics ever written. And yes, they are from the 1920s and 30s.

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You can have the best single in the world, but there's little chance of it being a hit if no one hears it. That's where pluggers come in — taking songs to radio and convincing programmers to playlist them. In 1987, Ron McCreight and his business partner, Robert Lemon, joined forces with PWL's Pete Waterman and David Howells in a plugging company that became known as Sharp End. In this special episode, Ron talks about how the music industry power players teamed up and the role Sharp End had in not only taking Stock Aitken Waterman's music to radio and TV but also handling publicity and promotion for many of the artists to work at the Hit Factory, including Kylie Minogue, Jason Donovan, Sinitta, Sonia, Hazell Dean, Mandy Smith, The Reynolds Girls, Big Fun, Boy Krazy and more.

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Check out previews of two of our most popular bonus track-by-track episodes. Gavin and Matt discuss Kylie, the debut album by Kylie Minogue, and, with special guest Barry Stone, talk about the first SAW-produced album by Dead Or Alive, Youthquake. As well as giving our thoughts on every song, we count down listeners' favourite tracks. If you enjoy these sneak peeks, you can subscribe to hear the full bonus episodes and all the other extra content at chartbeats.com.au/subscribe.
Meanwhile, existing subscribers can now listen to the bonus track-by-track episode for If I Have To Stand Alone by Lonnie Gordon, which has been added to the bonus content.
Thanks to everyone for listening and supporting the podcast — see you in 2024 for more of A Journey Through Stock Aitken Waterman.

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What a tumultuous year 1990 had been for the Hit Factory — and the final four singles produced by Stock Aitken Waterman that year certainly highlight that. What should have been Lonnie Gordon's second SAW-produced single, "If I Have To Stand Alone", came out as her third, but despite being in the same vein as top 5 hit "Happenin' All Over Again", it under-performed on the UK chart and the If I Have To Stand Alone album wasn't even released there at the time. Lonnie joins us for one final time to discuss the disappointment she faced as a result and the US dance hits she recorded with Black Box in the following years. New girl group Delage was launched in December 1990 with a remake of disco classic "Rock The Boat" — and Karina and Emma from the group reveal how the project came about. Meanwhile, one final single was belatedly released from Donna Summer's Another Place And Time album. Mike Stock tells us about the lyrical change Donna requested for "Breakaway" and the late singer's husband and manager, Bruce Sudano, talks about the song's success in South America and why Donna ultimately decided not to return to PWL. And we take a look at "Send A Prayer (To Heaven)" by Errol Brown — an often-forgotten Christmas song by the late former singer of Hot Chocolate.

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After the big creative risk that was previous single and video "Better The Devil You Know", Kylie Minogue and Stock Aitken Waterman went for something more playful with follow-up "Step Back In Time". With its fun lyrical nod to '70s disco music and a video dripping in retro style, the song was pure pop joy — and another big hit at a time when the Hit Factory sorely needed one. Mike Stock and Matt Aitken recall pulling the lyrics together for the nostalgic tune, while Phil Harding and Ian Curnow provide insight into the mixing stage, which was a crucial part of the process in delivering a single that satisfied Kylie's desire to be relevant in clubs. Phil and Ian also discuss the track they wrote with Kylie in 1990, "I Am The One For You", as part of PWL's efforts to accommodate her eagerness to develop her songwriting skills. Over in the US, Kylie also wrote with Michael Jay, who returns to the podcast to talk about Rhythm Of Love track "The World Still Turns", while former PWL engineer Peter Day also shares memories of working on the album, in particular the track "Always Find The Time". And on the visual side of things, Nick Egan details how he came to work with Kylie on both the "Step Back In Time" video and the cover for Rhythm Of Love. 

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Although she had been signed to PWL in the UK for a while and scored a couple of hits with remakes of "Don't Make Me Over" and "Walk On By", Sybil went into the studio with Stock Aitken Waterman in 1990 to record soulful ballad "Make It Easy On Me". The American singer/songwriter joins us to discuss starting out with US label Next Plateau in 1986, her string of club hits that caught the attention of PWL, those Bacharach & David covers with Tony King's pivotal remix work and what it was like working with SAW themselves. Earlier in the episode, Matt Aitken helps us unpack "Wow Wow Na Na" by Grand Plaz and "Ole Ole Ole" by LA Mood — two SAW-produced dance tracks that were released anonymously. And as we reach Jason Donovan's final single from Between The Lines, "I'm Doin' Fine", we hear from him and his tour backing singer Dannielle Gaha about life — and love! — on the road.

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Although they'd achieved some hits with ballads that they had produced, Stock Aitken Waterman were better known for their uptempo pop/dance tracks, but in mid-1990, four ballads in a row emerged from the Hit Factory. Three of those were the latest releases in the jukebox era series of remakes, with Big Fun ("Hey There Lonely Girl"), Sonia ("End Of The World") and Jason Donovan ("Rhythm Of The Rain") all reinterpreting golden oldies. In the cases of those first two artists, it would be their final singles with SAW — and we discuss what became of both Big Fun and Sonia after they parted ways with PWL. Also this episode, Lonnie Gordon's long-awaited follow-up to "Happenin' All Over Again" finally hit stores, but it was a complete change in style from the song that had taken her into the UK top 5. Mike Stock, Julian Gingell and Lonnie herself talk about the situation involving soulful ballad "Beyond Your Wildest Dreams" being chosen over clubbier tracks "How Could He Do This To Me" and "If I Have To Stand Alone".

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When they came to work with Stock Aitken Waterman, pop act Yell! had one top 10 hit under their belt already — a remake of Dan Hartman's "Instant Replay". Signed to Simon Cowell's Fanfare label, the duo comprised of Daniel James and Paul Varney recorded their follow-up, "One Thing Leads To Another", with SAW, but it was not the success anyone hoped it would be, despite being a fresh new sound from the Hit Factory and the guys both being talented singers. Paul joins us to discuss his start in the entertainment industry and Yell!'s short-lived career, while we explore the external factors that impacted their success, including record company wrangling and negative press that took a particularly cruel tone. As it would turn out, not even Jason Donovan was able to live up to his previous successes in mid-1990 as his latest single, "Another Night", became his first to miss the top 10. Jason talks about the reaction to that chart shock and why going out on the road later in the year would prove essential to his longevity. Mike Stock, Matt Aitken, Peter Day and David Howells also share their thoughts on the Between The Lines era of Jason's career. 

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As great a song as it is, "Better The Devil You Know" would not have been anywhere near as impactful as it was without its accompanying music video. A landmark in Kylie Minogue's career, the video transformed her image from that of girl-next-door to "sex kitten", according to director Paul Goldman, who joins us to detail the before, during and aftermath of the shoot, including his run-ins with PWL over the direction it took. Stylist Nicole Bonython-Hines recalls piecing together the various looks for the video and manager Terry Blamey gives his thoughts on why the video was so important for Kylie. We also hear from Sharon McPhilemy and David Howells from PWL about the reaction from Kylie's UK label to the new-look star. Then, Kylie's long-time musical director, Steve Anderson, talks us through their enduring relationship with the song and how it has been reinterpreted on tour over the decades.

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After two very successful albums at PWL, but little in the way of artistic control, Kylie Minogue was ready for a change. And in this first part of a two-part special looking at landmark release "Better The Devil You Know", we hear from those closest to her about the strategy taken to compel Stock Aitken Waterman to agree to a more collaborative approach. From directly influencing the style of tracks — edgier, clubbier — to veto power on the final mixes, Kylie gained input to an extent way beyond any other Hit Factory artist. In turn, SAW delivered what is widely regarded as one of their all-time best tracks. The lead single from eventual third studio album Rhythm Of Love, "Better The Devil You Know" was SAW tapping back into their club roots, but in a way that was still pure pop. And while the song has gone down as a landmark release in Kylie's career, not everyone was thrilled with the way the working relationship or the musical output was developing. In Part 2 (coming soon), we'll focus on the game-changing music video. Interviews in Part 1: Mike Stock, Matt Aitken, Yoyo, Pete Hammond, Julian Gingell, Miriam Stockley, Karen Hewitt and one more very special guest connected to Kylie, who features on the podcast for the first time.

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His journey with Stock Aitken Waterman was one of the most successful, with multiple UK number 1 hits and the highest-selling album in Britain in 1989. And now, Jason Donovan joins the podcast to talk about his time at the Hit Factory. From his first steps into the music industry with Mushroom Records in Australia to his early sessions with Pete Hammond and then Mike Stock and Matt Aitken to that blistering run of singles in 1988 and 1989, Jason speaks honestly about what the experience was like for him and the artistic restrictions and business decisions at play during his debut album era. Then, we move into 1990 and his first single for the new decade, "Hang On To Your Love", and the Between The Lines album, with Jason talking about the musical direction taken, how he felt more comfortable vocally and the changes that were going on around him on the charts.

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Her time at PWL might not have yielded any hits, but the short-lived pop career of Japanese singer Kakko is the stuff of legend. We take a deep dive into the story behind her debut single, "We Should Be Dancing”, hearing from PWL’s David Howells and Nicki L’Amy Brée about how the aspiring performer learnt the ropes at the label before being sent into the studio with both Mike Stock and Matt Aitken, and Phil Harding and Ian Curnow, all of whom also recall the project. After an aborted first attempt with a song called "Stop The Clock”, Stock and Aitken settled on “We Should Be Dancing”, which is one of the most polarising SAW singles of all time. While Kakko didn’t trouble the UK chart, the latest releases from Big Fun, Sonia and Pat & Mick kept the Hit Factory in the top 40, although not always at positions the artists had become accustomed to. As musical trends changed dramatically in 1990, we hear from engineer Peter Day about SAW’s latest trick to keep their tracks club-friendly: the ubiquitous “woo! yeah!” sample, which featured on both Big Fun’s “Handful Of Promises” and “Counting Every Minute” by Sonia. Pat Sharp and Mick Brown also join us again to reflect on the unexpected achievements of their remake of “Use It Up And Wear It Out”.

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New year. New artist. New hit. Stock Aitken Waterman's hit streak continued in 1990 with the breakthrough single for American club artist Lonnie Gordon, who had relocated to the UK in the 1980s and made a name for herself with a series of personality-filled anthems like "No Regrets", "Love Eviction", "(I've Got Your) Pleasure Control" and "It's Not Over". We hear from Lonnie about those early records — and their spoken sections — and how she targeted SAW as the producers she wanted to take her to the next level. After signing a deal with Supreme Records, home of Mel & Kim and Princess, Lonnie found herself working with PWL soon enough, with the Black Box-inspired "Happenin' All Over Again" the vehicle to take her to a more mainstream audience. Lonnie recalls the experience of working with Mike Stock and Matt Aitken on the UK top 5 track, while Mike, PWL's Julian Gingell and Supreme Records' Nick East all give their memories of the redoubtable singer.

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Any fears that the public had tired of Stock Aitken Waterman were dismissed as 1990 got underway and the latest single by Kylie Minogue became the next UK chart-topper for the trio. Taken from the soundtrack to her feature film debut in The Delinquents, Kylie's remake of 1950s classic "Tears On My Pillow" got the new decade off to a great start in terms of UK chart success, although the single was not as embraced in Australia, where it became her lowest-charting hit to date. As well as looking at the cover version, we talk about the film it was released to support and the controversy at the time about the more grown-up content in The Delinquents. We also hear from Kylie's Australian-based stylist Nicole Bonython-Hines about the star's iconic look for the film's Sydney premiere. Then, we welcome Mike Stock back to the podcast for a special chat about B-sides in general and, specifically, "We Know The Meaning Of Love", the track which appeared on the flip side of "Tears On My Pillow" and just may have been considered as a duet at one point.

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The name Yoyo is well known to Stock Aitken Waterman fans, appearing on the back covers of dozens of hit singles and albums. The long-time PWL engineer was an integral part of the team from May 1986 when he earned a job as an assistant at the new studios at the Vineyard, London. Yoyo (real name: Boyowa Olugbo) quickly established himself as a studio talent thanks to his remix work alongside fellow assistant Jamie Bromfield as the Extra Beat Boys and he was promoted to assist first Phil Harding and then engineer for Mike Stock and Matt Aitken. In this exclusive interview, Yoyo recalls early remixes he and Jamie did for artists like Mandy Smith and Dollar, and then talks about working with SAW and artists like Mel & Kim, Kylie Minogue, Rick Astley, Bananarama, Donna Summer, Dead Or Alive, Sonia, The Reynolds Girls, Big Fun and more. He also reveals why he ultimately decided to move on from PWL as the '90s began.

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Kylie Minogue. Big Fun. Donna Summer. The last time we encountered these three artists, things were going swimmingly for each of them. In the case of Kylie, she had just racked up her seventh UK top 2 hit in a row — a run that was broken by "Never Too Late", the third single from Enjoy Yourself. As well as discussing why a tune as good as "Never Too Late" wasn't as well received as Kylie's previous singles, we hear from Mike Stock about the meaning behind the song, while Sharon McPhilemy fills us in on that dress-up music video. We also take a look at how Enjoy Yourself came together, with Kylie beginning to seek more artistic involvement in the process. Meanwhile, Big Fun moved from a remake to an original Stock Aitken Waterman composition, "Can't Shake The Feeling". Matt Aitken talks about the difficulty of nailing down the track and we look at the boy band's competition at the time: some new kids on the pop block. As for Donna Summer, the fourth single from Another Place And Time was met with a muted reception, barely scraping into the UK top 75. Was "When Love Takes Over You" the right choice? Plus, Donna's husband and manager, Bruce Sudano, recalls shooting the video, which was directed by Donna, and why she faced resistance whenever she tried to slow the tempo down.

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Teen heartthrobs past and then-present rubbed shoulders as Stock Aitken Waterman wrote and produced the latest hit for music industry veteran Cliff Richard and the final single was lifted from Jason Donovan's debut album, Ten Good Reasons. Matt Aitken reveals what it was like to work with an artist as well-established as Cliff and how the song they collaborated on, "I Just Don't Have The Heart", had to pass the milkman test. And while the selection of "Every Day (I Love You More)" for Jason was uncontroversial, the circumstances surrounding the first attempt at a music video for the track brought an end to director Chris Langman's work with PWL. Stylist Sharon McPhilemy, meanwhile, recalls shooting the video that did end up being released. This episode's third SAW-produced single was the follow-up to Sonia's UK chart-topping debut, but why didn't "Can't Forget You" follow "You'll Never Stop Me Loving You" into the upper reaches of the British chart? 

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