We'll have them a vulval pink, darling! (with Lady Glenconner)

That's my intellectual. You talk about classical music. I just like a banger from Joseph. This episode of Off Air with Jane and Fi is sponsored by John Lewis Money. Fi is the anything you can't find at John Lewis. No. As well as all the great bedding, kitchen kits, beauty from brands that we all know and love, you can pick up cozy cashmere Christmas decorations and even essentials for your pet. How about a new collar for Nancy? Well, and some sparkly pieces to wear to all those festive get-togethers. Well, quite.

They even do money too, Jane. They really do have it all. At John Lewis Money, in-house experts and trusted partners work together to offer money products for real life. From the John Lewis Partnership Credit Card to insurance and travel money, they can help you think outside the bank. To find out more, search John Lewis Partnership Credit Card. That's the spirit, credit subject to status. 18-plus years, UK residents, TNC's apply.

John Lewis PLC is a credit broker, New Day Limited, is the lender. This episode of Off-Air with Jane and Fee is sponsored by Norwegian Cruise Line. Have you ever thought of taking a cruise? Well, it's crossed my mind. Tell me a bit more about it.

Well, with Norwegian cruise line, you can travel to iconic locations across Northern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Greek Isles unpacking only once and exploring multiple European destinations in one holiday. They offer exclusive go-local shore excursions as well as an immersive programme of onboard experiences. I can't lie, I'm intrigued by up to 21 dining options on a single ship.

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Welcome to Offair, it's Tuesday, and La Marlle Karens is with us today, fees back tomorrow. What have you got there? Because it's got a Christmas-y look about. Yeah, a little festive red box. There is a little festive red box. I know you won't let me look after Dora, because apparently I can't guess the age of cats, and that's... It seems I couldn't possibly be in charge of your precious pet. Looking after Dora is a job for the professional.

It's not something that I could give to any kind of amateur cat whisperer. I'm just basically here to bribe you. Because I've got a cat selection box here. Actually, that's brilliant. Yeah, it's got salmon and chicken slices, chicken and tuna slices and tuna and chicken sticks.

Yes, please. So, yeah. So, just to say, you know, it's just my first step in proving that I might be a reliable Dora Cara in the future. Actually, that's lovely. And is this the kind of thing that these kind of freebies come in to your office? Yeah, sometimes we get things for humans as well. Yeah. A feed as a treat, it makes very clear here. Always ensure fresh water is available. What can I say? I always do.

I mean, I didn't need to know that either. I mean, I wouldn't figure that out for myself. But do you think Dora's going to like that? Are you going to put it under the tree, or are you going to give it to a straightaway? No, it'd be wrapped and put under the tree. What kind of house or do you think I'd write? I don't know, OK? Just slightly sort of Presbyterian stringing me. I certainly don't start giving Christmas presents out in November. OK. I saw my old chum-sum coats on Skye yesterday, and behind him in the Skye Newsroom was a Christmas tree. Oh, it's preposterous. I mean, come on, Skye. It's November.

Yeah, I don't know when all this got out of hand. It's ridiculous. Let's keep it in December. I mean, we were only allowed to put up the tree on Christmas Eve in my house. Oh, OK, I think that's probably... I know. It does seem quite rigid. I think it might have had something to do with the fact that traditionally we were just never organised enough in the same way that we only have presents after Christmas dinner because my grandmother never got round to wrapping them until then. So everything happened quite late in our household. Did she wrap them? Yeah.

Right, after wrapping paper or...? I don't know, if you could lay hands on. OK, probably pastry sometimes. To be honest, the Christmas perfectionist is a bore. Oh, good job. So let's hear it for people who just roll with it. Yeah. And just let it happen, because it makes life a lot easier for those people around them. And essentially, we're supposed to be enjoying ourselves. Yeah.

Anyway, that's it. But if you work at Sky clearly, you've got to get the tree up by November the 16th or something. Can we also... Yeah, I mean, enjoy yourself by watching rolling news. Particularly at the moment. I don't know about you, but that's how I have a good tone, Jane. Increasingly, I never thought I'd be that person who said, I avoid the news. I'm obviously not when I'm working. But at the moment, you listen and you just think, oh, what?

Who? No. Someone asked me about my, like, a time routine recently, you know, like the wind down now. I was like, well, I listened to a lot of news and current first podcast. And then realised that might be something to do with why I don't sleep very fast. Do you listen to... I listen to America's, just before bed. Yeah, don't. Have you heard pod saves of America? Yes. I mean, I've been listening to that for many years. Yeah, but I think collectively that they're having a nervous breakdown, aren't they?

I'm not saying I don't recommend it, because I kind of do. Actually, just on that note, I will say that there's a new BBC offering. Oh, is it just ASMR? Well, it's just...

I'm very ignorant about classical music. I like a tune. And what this offers you is very little speech. There's certainly no news and no weather forecasts or traffic information. It's just tunes.

And a lot of them you will recognise. Occasionally the odd soothing presence makes themselves known. But it's actually, it's quite good. I'm enjoying it and I'm not a classical music person. But if you're hovering around the house or you just need respite, give it the charm. So I used to find the thing that would get me through the cleaning on a Sunday and cheer me up as just a lame page on Sunday.

show tunes. Yes, show tunes. I mean, that's my intellectual. You talk about classical music. I just like a banger from Joseph. I like a show tune. Any dream will do. But in the times today, there is a list of the best songs from musicals. Yes.

And the winner is... We did discuss this on the desk yesterday. The winner is over the rainbow. Somewhere over the rainbow. Yeah, mine would be another suitcase, another haul. I think that's a brilliant song. Absolutely brilliant. Particularly the Madonna version, obviously. That is just a very, very poignant song. I like Tell Me On A Sunday. Oh, yeah. That's a really sweet song as well. I also really love Blood Brothers and Tell Me It's Not True. Oh, that's a great tune. I like I Hate Men from Kiss Me Kate as well.

Do you? Yeah, I do. I was Kate and Kiss Me Kate at school and really enjoyed seeing that one. I was about to ask if any man in particular had inspired it. I was like, I asked you that. Oh, that was a segue, Jane. It works on a podcast. Jane is showing me a visual here. Yeah.

Hello to Carol in Norwich, who often delights us. Thank you, Carol. Thank you, just for your loyalty, apart from anything else. She has pinged me an image of Charlie Mullins, off of Pimlico Plumbers, although he's moved on to a new organisation called We Fix now. I think it's called We Fix. He was a guest on the radio show Times Radio, Monday to Thursday, two till four, get the Times Radio app, it's free. Charlie Mullins is on talking about the benefits of working pretty much the six-day week, which he thinks is good, and, you know, it's something that we should aim for, and I know... I do.

You do, I was just about, I was giving you the opportunity. I know you work like an absolute dog. Six days at the moment. But obviously, if you want to look as good as Charlie Mullins, you're going to have to work even harder. I'm going to work on my roots. No, he's 72, Joan. Good Lord. He's 72. I mean, yes, just read, read out that statement about saying in being 72 and what Carol has said.

Well, it's Carol's PS. She says, I didn't believe you when you said he was looking good. And then she's printed out, possibly not the most flattering picture. I would say, the thing about Charlie Mullins is that, first of all, he's agreed to come on the programme, and we're always very grateful for anyone. He's got an opinion, and he gave it. Now, I'm not going to say that I think anyone should be working seven days a week. And I don't want my stopcock being meddled with by someone who's exhausted, because I think it's a job for someone. Never on a Sunday. Totally alert. Exactly.

because these things are very delicate. But there are, look, I've always enjoyed, how can I put this? I wouldn't want, I mean, it's one of the reasons I haven't retired. Well, I'm not the retirement age, isn't it? I was gonna say, also the fact that you're not old enough. I'm 60, but yeah. I haven't just taken any kind of what you might loosely call early retirement, because who doesn't want to have a contrast between home life and something else? Yeah. And they think,

I think feeling relevant in some way, whatever it is you're doing. I think once you stop feeling relevant, I think for lots of us, that's a terrifying place to be. Oh, God, yeah. Don't even go there. But Charlie, let's be honest, I think he would say himself, he's quite possibly had a little bit of work.

But, and his hair is, is Rod Stewart-esque, isn't it? Definitely. I don't think the song, do you think? He's a politician to Rod or not. He's set off my winter-ish quite a lot. Yeah, all right, OK. So, anyway. Can I just give a shout-out to Ali, who stopped me to say hello at London registration yesterday. Hello, Ali. It was so nice to meet you. Ali's a regular listener. Right. You.

met her daughter, Saskia, on a train in Liverpool recently. I did. Yeah. Yeah. She... You're absolutely right. Jane and I spend all of our time on trains just travelling the length and breadth of the country, travelling, travelling, travelling, travelling to talk to people who listen, trying to find them. I don't... Honestly, I... You have to believe me. I don't bother members of the public till they talk to me. I really don't. But Saskia, I met... I think she was in her second or third week at uni in Liverpool. Yeah. And she was off travelling to Crosby Marine Lake, the Marina.

to undertake a windsurfer. Oh, that's right. Her mum said, yes, she was her step mum, sorry. Alia's her step mum. Right. And yes, she said she was off to do something sporty on the water. She was certainly wearing a fleece, which I thought was a very good idea. Yeah, appropriate. So, Ali lives in the south of England and gets the same train as me to London Bridge. Right. And she very humbly said she was a musician.

She's not just a musician. What is she? She's a principal viola in the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. OK, that's... But she's just very up to... Oh, you know her musician. So anyway, Ellie, it was lovely to meet you, and thank you for saying hello, and hello again to Saskia as well. Yeah, brilliant. Well, thank you. And always... By the way, if you do see any of us out and about, we don't have protection, and we're very, very happy to chat.

We've got very little to do most of the time, so we are just there to chat. Yeah, yeah. Now, the guest on the podcast today is Lady Glen Connor. So, a little bit of class, because Jane and I, Marlle Cairns and Garvey, we're, well, we're, you know, we don't, what would we say are sort of social status? We're, how, I'm going to say, aspirational, meritocratic, goby. Look, I consider myself posh when my mum started buying salad in a bag.

Exactly. I think that just tells you all you need to know. Elevated you to a whole new level of British society. Lady Glen Conner is a genuine aristocrat born on this amazing estate in Norfolk. She probably owns the farms where they grow the salad that goes in a bag. She possibly does. She is a woman who has had both incredible privilege and the most diabolical tragedies. And she is... Our mind is of what her job was?

Well, she was Princess Margaret's lady in waiting, which I think was probably one of the tougher callings. There'd be a good bit of waiting around there, I imagine. Where is she? She only ever speaks of the late Princess with tremendous fondness.

But she's also a woman who was married to an abusive man. I mean, actually, he just sounds horrible. Come Uncle Colin Tennant, who was notable for... No relation to David. No, no relation to David, who was the man who bought Mystique, the Exotic Island, and where they entertained Princess Margaret. And he was

Well, maybe we'll let her describe Collington during the course of the interview, but he was certainly a difficult man to be with, I think that's fair to say. And then she had five children and two of her sons have died. She is just a trooper in the truest sense of that term. So not so busy. I think I've read a quote from her somewhere. She just says, you've got to crack on.

And she has. And in her very 80s and 90s, she's become incredibly well known and hugely successful in her own right. So that's brilliant. Anyway, good luck to her. We'll hear about her latest home, Picnic Papers, later in this podcast.

I don't know anyone who's interviewed her and not fall in love with her. She is, yeah, I think she's quite a lady, genuinely. Not a day for a picnic today, is it? No. Definitely not a papery one. If you're outside the UK, you should know that winter has suddenly struck and it's not even officially winter, is it? No, it's autumn, but it's disgusting. There was sleet in Peckham this morning. Oh, my God. I know. Sleet in Peckham, there's the title of your book.

Moving on, can I talk about Georgina solving her wee incanundrum? Please do. Yeah, really raising the tone. Georgina says, do Genum Phi. I'd previously tried to instill a rule that no one in the family, husband, son, young daughter, could pee somewhere where I couldn't pee. So frustrated was I by their easy, outdoor wheeze. But they just laughed at me and continued watering the carwheels or forest trees. But then says Georgina, I bought a Libby.

Maybe better known by the generic brand Shiwi, the silicone funnel that you can pop in your pants and perfect a stand-up wee while remaining dressed. It's been a game changer for me, she says, and my now slightly older daughter, who can no longer get away with squatting down so freely, we've peed on hard shoulders, forest tracks, tops and mountains, and corners of car parks.

My plastic penis and its little dry bag pops in my car, glove box, in my handbag, and if necessary, in my pocket, says Georgina. It's confirmed how easy it is to be a bloke, and I plan on continuing to beat them at their own game. So the product is called a, it's called a Libby or a She-Wee. Or a She-Wee. Oh yeah, made by She-Wee, it's a Libby. But I still don't quite understand, do you put it down your trousers? Sounds like it. Yeah, okay. You can pop it on. I'm still okay with squatting.

I mean, privately, we'll have to nep the other Sunday. You know, they'll nep where they do the rewilding. Oh, yeah. I only know about that from the archers, what to... Oh, so it's, nep is this amazing estate in Sussex, where Isabelle Trie and her husband, K-N-E-W-P, can I correct a word? So it's a place where they've bred stalks for the first time since 14, 14.

Yeah, stalks hadn't bred in the UK since 1414 and now they're loads of stalks. How are they here? They fly here? Oh, God.

I don't know, I don't know more definitely than that, Jane. Sorry, that was... But they also have a lot of finest hour, but they also have lots of wild deer and wild pigs and all sorts. Anyway, but I would just say, you know, I had an outdoor wee at net because, you know, that's something you do. When you're working for the times, you've had outdoor wee's.

I mean, I wasn't on a story at Knapp. Oh, I see. That was leisure. Oh, it was leisure? I was just taking videos of world pigs. I see them things. But I don't think there's any rules against having an outdoor wee while in the employ of the times. No. Look, I mean, if you want to spend your weekends, I mean, we should just say to new listeners, Jane is currently a resident of Brighton. I don't know why she was in Peckham last night. Only she knows.

And she spent her weekends taking videos of wild pigs. And look, Britain, mercifully, is what passes for a free country these days. We're probably about as good as it gets on planet Earth. So each to their very own... Bring us back into line, Garvey. Come on.

Natalie says, I thought I'd pop a quick email in and this, can I just say, this is a busy time of year for us all, Natalie. So I'm very, very grateful to anyone who has a moment in their crowded schedule to email this load of old hogwash. We are very grateful. Natalie says, I heard the conversation about the latest strain of norovirus and the ensuing discussion about liquid soap. I had read a similar article to the one Jane read.

I'm not going to mention the name of the paper, but I think we probably both read the same Sunday newspaper. But realised she meant probably liquid sanitiser, not liquid soap. Sanitiser doesn't have the same ability to counteract germs like good old hand washing.

Anyway, I thought Jane might like to know she wasn't entirely wrong. It actually won't stop me sanitising my hands, but it will make me wash them even more. I love the show and I am the proud owner, she says, of a tote bag. Natalie is also a librarian.

So I think I've got the point there. Yeah, good old hand washing is the right way to approach it. Don't just depend on your sanitiser. Give your hands a proper wash. No one wants this hectic party season, not that I've been invited yet to a single Christmas party, to be in any way impacted by a norovirus bug. Try to avoid. Do we have any totes left? Looking at Eve, not a single one. There's just one. There is one left.

Are you going to get a new stock in for 2021? Well, there's going to be a meeting about my kids. Yeah, a merch meeting. Yeah. Well, we're pretty sophisticated out for these days, Jane. I don't know, because you, you know, you want to pop in, I just blow in and blow out. Yeah, you're like a sort of parapetetic music teacher. You are a little bit like that. But you're, I'm going to say, you're slightly more fashionably dressed.

and I don't want to cause offence. Because today you're wearing... What is that? Pleasure shorts. Exactly. And I don't think one of those music teachers would dare to pleasure. I don't think they'd been allowed at my school. It wouldn't have been allowed at my own teacher would come in in a pair of pleasure shorts. I'm just trying to remember. St Mary's RC Catholic High School has the field.

Miss Hog, who spent a fruitless 12 months trying to teach me the violin, the idea of Miss Hog in clever. Well, you see, the thing is, they make me... I'm a bit bossier when I wear my pleather shorts, so maybe that's what Miss Hog was missing, with some... I was a bit of black pleather from Zara. Maybe she'd have been a bit more demanding. Oh, Miss Hog was pretty formidable, but she had a soft side. She had a nickname for everybody in the class, and mine was fairy. Aww.

She went in a nice way. It was a 1970s everybody. What can I tell you? I would just like to thank Helen for the pictures of carrots, which I understand you've had a lot of because I've been enjoying them enormously on the Instagram. And oddly, there's also an obsession with carrots going on on the 11th floor. On my desk, people are eating them as snacks.

So I don't know what's going on with carrots, but there's a thing. And I will just say, on a festive note, so Alex James of Blur fame, and cheese now, in his autobiography, the only thing I really took away from it, and it was a great read, but the only thing I remembered was that he used to get bad breath from drinking so much champagne, such as the life of a 90s pop star. He used to get bad breath from champagne.

Crunch a carrot. Crunch a carrot after you've been drinking champagne for fresh breath. It neutralises the champagne, apparently. So, yeah, for your festive season, pop a couple of carrots in your handbag, and when you're out, you know, get out a bottle, get out a little crunchy baton, and fresh breath. And Helen also says waterproof bamboo mattress covers are cooling and prevent the stain edge.

Bamboo? Bamboo's amazing. I've got a coat made of bamboo. It's furry. Right. It's hotter than the surface of the sun. Yeah, can I ask? Bamboo seems to have come out of nowhere and is now being used in everything, including socks. Why did we not always use it? I think we were saying it for pandas. We were OK, right. And now they're on to any. So that's fine. It's depressing. Make socks out of it. Yeah, that's very strange, isn't it?

Now we had an interesting email the other day from our friend Mike in Altringham and this is because he had emailed about the Johnny Depp ad being shown during the Queen's documentary about domestic violence. I mean it was just extraordinary. I saw it too on ITVX.

unbelievable choice. Well, he's had a good bit of news. He says, I'm pleased to report that ITV have reviewed my complaint and agreed not to show the ad in future streaming of this programme. Here's what they said below. Many ad categories were restricted from this programme sourced from pre-clearance data from Clearcast, the body that pre-clear ads on behalf of all UK commercial broadcasters.

This data will not have identified an ad for OSIVAGE featuring DEP as an issue in the context of the program content. ITV has now, however, prohibited the ad from running in any future iterations of the program. It's interesting, isn't it, that the data will not have identified? No, because the data is just an algorithm or a computer that doesn't think or understand so far. I mean, as far as I'm aware,

And they thought, yeah, that'd be OK. It's an ad for Aftershave. What's the problem? But it is important to note, by the way, ITV go on, that the case brought against debt by Amber Heard made allegations to incidents within their private lives and not concerning or relating to any of their screen work.

Yeah, the case without distinction. Yeah, the case without convictions is we know that. Well, we're calling Mr. L from ITV customer review of services. I don't care, though, if I made allegations to incidents within their private life.

Yeah, still not entirely satisfied, but thank you very much, Mike, for drawing our attention to that. And well done to you, actually, for bothering to make a plane, because you can half and puff and not do anything about it, but he actually did something. I mean, that is a clanger. It's an absolute clanger. It's ridiculous. Yeah.

I mean, imagine what it must be like to be on any kind of broadcasting organisation when the subject matter in the adverts contradicts what's going on in the programme itself. I can't imagine. I wouldn't know, Jane. No, absolutely not. Don't get me to stray into areas that are likely to...

Merch meeting, point of order. Kathy says, thank you so much for enjoyable podcasts, which makes Monday to Thursday great. M-M-T-T-G on a bucket hat for your next merch, maybe. Making Monday to Thursday great. Well, it beats M-A-G-A. Yeah. Yeah. I'd have to do not have them read, though, just in case anybody was unsure. No, I think we'll have them a Volvo Pink.

Darling. Just another... A Marvel pin could be there. What is that Pantone colour of the year? Our own ball. What would they call that pink? Something hilarious. Fanny Adams. Actually, the story of Fanny Adams was really sad, wasn't it? So we don't want to go there. They were a sad colour. Well, yeah, it was a sad story. Was it the... She was a housemaid who was murdered? Oh. Oh, do you mind? Yeah, it wasn't a happy thing at all.

Historians listening will be able to send us their view of that. Mattresses, I mean, we're back to mattresses, but it was important because Fi had seen one of her neighbours in a very fashionable part of East London having a blue mattress delivered. And I think she made the really good point. Why have we for so long put up with white or cream mattresses when we know accidents are going to happen?

And she said, this is from Katrina, who says, I can't be the only one who responded to the question, blue mattress is why now, with an immediate, because of the patriarchy.

It is the answer to every question. I mean, the truth is that's true. It is true. The modern mattress was designed by men in a hugely lucrative industry because you probably aren't going to buy a second hand one. And as an occasional and important purchase, customers are more likely to push the boat out a bit. And up until fairly recently, many men had never seen their mattress. Why would they? I suppose that's true.

And why weren't there as many women who well knew the scourge of a mattress stain in positions powerful enough to influence the big mattress juggernaut? This is actually fascinating. I am thinking about that. Is it the case that most men will never have seen their own mattress? What are we saying that men never change the bottom sheet? Katrina's making the assumption or accusation that men don't change the sheets? I mean, I will say,

Probably not as often as women. No. Well, I got into trouble many years ago, a woman's out by just owning the fact that I didn't always change the guest bedroom sheets between visitors. If they were kind of young, clean female relatives, I didn't really see the need. If my cousin or my sister were going to be sleeping in the shame sheets, a week apart, and people were horrified. People were not wrong. Yeah, they were wrong.

Yeah, I've never really got over that. Yeah, well, let's not revisit the argument, the three-way, how often we change our own sheets, because I do remember that theand you had some answers that were not pleasing to the listener. Yeah, let's move on. Yeah, let's move on. Farmers, farmers busy today.

Yeah, farmers are very busy today in Westminster. And Tia has written in saying, did Genan Fee, thank you for raising the issue of a farming inheritance tax policy changes on today's episode with such open minds. You asked for farming listeners to get in touch with their perspective. And here's a note from our family farm in Cornwall.

This is quite a long email from Tia's. No, I want to read all of it. But Tia says, we live on a 300-acre farm, which has been nurtured by my husband's family since 1860. Our children, 12-year-old daughter and 10-year-old girl boy twins, are fifth generation. My husband farmed with his farmer and grandfather, both were born and died in the farmhouse that we live in, which houses our family, my 92-year-old mother-in-law, plus until March of this year, my sister-in-law, who tragically passed away of a varying cancer less than a year after diagnosis.

The government reference to a £3m threshold in so many situations just isn't relevant says to you. It presupposes that farmers are married and can benefit from two partners allowances and that those allowances are planned and structured in a way that many farmers simply don't have the time and funds to pay for expert legal fees in order to set in place.

We know countless farmers who are widowed, divorced and separated. Surely we're living in the 21st century and know that families are more fluid than touting a line that most farmers can expect to benefit from a £3 million allowance. My farming friend's neighbour comes to mind who lost her first husband to cancer and her second husband in a catastrophic accident falling from a roof on their farm, leaving her with two children and her three step sons.

Tia says, in essence, we feel strongly that the government has set the threshold wrong. It needs to be significantly higher if they want to continue with inheritance tax on agricultural land and if their intention is to tax wealthy landowners who are cash rich and can take the weight of it and not to completely disrupt family farms.

And with this, they're intricate knowledge of the land and food systems. With the threshold set as it is, most farmers around us who have inherited land, but they've carefully nurtured through generations and require large capital items such as tractors in order to produce food, work insanely hard and for a pittance. And even with a 10-year period in which to pay inheritance tax, for most it would be completely unaffordable.

Just in our small corner of Cornwall, there are huge numbers of people and cumulative thousands of acres of land affected. It's not a small issue only affecting a minority of people in land. And we're lucky to have found ways to diversify the business based on the farm, yet we still find ourselves in an extremely difficult position. We worry about many of the small family farms around us and throughout the country where this is not the case.

Thank you for that, Tia. I think it's great to have a bit more insight and perspective on that. And it obviously is a huge issue for many, many farmers, as evidenced by the fact that there's this protest going on. For those of you not in the UK, there's protests today in Westminster by thousands of farmers who are protesting at the government's new inheritance tax threshold.

So, Tia is basically saying, if the threshold were higher, she wouldn't be against it. And what I hadn't appreciated, and thank you, Tia, for taking the time, is that there is this thing called land banking, just wealthy people who knew of the tax benefits, who bought large amounts of land. Now, they're not all farmers. Some of them haven't done a day's farming in their life. And I absolutely get that this is a seven-day-a-week commitment talking of properly working. This is a whole different

It's not a job, it's a complete life. It's not, it's not a job. I'm a suburbanite. I wouldn't call myself a townie. I'm definitely a suburbanite. And I need to know more about this. So I really do welcome all perspectives. And there is a surprising amount of vitriol from some people who are anti-farming, just kind of instinctively think farmers are all really wealthy.

And yeah, there are some wealthy landowners, but also what I hadn't appreciated was that tenant farmers could well be impacted as well, because obviously the people who own the land that they farm may well end up punishing them in some way, because they need to get their money back. It's a hugely, hugely complicated subject, and I appreciate that if you are farming.

You're knackered at the end of the day and you're not going to be emailing a podcast, but that's why I'm so grateful to Tia who has done it. It's interesting because I haven't grown up in, you know, you're in a semi-rural area, but sort of formerly industrial area. I've never met a wealthy farmer. All the farmers I knew worked incredibly hard. Some had inherited the farms from the family, but no stretch of the imagination did I think of them as wealthy. And all of them were absolute grafters.

you know, in very difficult circumstances. So it's just not a viewpoint I share because I've just never seen it.

No, no. Well, OK, let's put the plea out for more responses. And there is this big protest in the centre of London today on what is a truly wretched November Tuesday. So thoughts and prayers. Actually, on the tube today coming into work, there were two separate primary school trips, I think, to that museum in central London, where you can look at the London wall. The very... Oh, yeah. Do you remember that one?

Museum of London. Museum of London. Yeah, it must have been because that's where they got off, I think. But I mean, as soon as they got on, the kids were overexcited to a degree that was unacceptable because I think they had seen a couple of snow florries. And it was just the smell of damp bobble hat that was just all over them. The kids were running around and thumping each other and the teachers were doing a really good job. But the kids could only have been about six maximum.

36-year-olds on the tube. Honestly, I'm teachers. Never mind farmers. I appreciate they work out. Those primary school teachers, when they get home tonight, they will deserve a lie down over the world. That bubble hat's off to you all. Quite.

Now, Lady Glen Connor has known immense privilege and unimaginable personal tragedy in her life. The daughter of an Earl, she was a maid of honour at the Lake Queens Coronation and a devoted lady in waiting to Princess Margaret for over 30 years. Two of her three sons died and the third was left disabled after a motorbike accident.

A late husband, a man called Colin Tennant, who bought Mystique and turned it into a celebrity party island, was physically abusive, and when he died, he left his money to a male servant, who'd originally been hired to look after his elephant. But Lady Glenn Conner cracked on and how.

At 92, she's a successful writer and tells a quite brilliant anecdote. Her latest book is called Picnic Papers and Other Feasts with Friends, and it's supporting the work of the Safe Lives Domestic Abuse Charity. Now, she told me about that, but we started by her reliving her trip to Times Towers today, which has been somewhat affected by the farmer's protest.

I thought it had broken down, and luckily it hadn't, and it followed us for a bit hooting. And I realised that, of course, they are... All the tractors have come to London to complain quite rightly. I come of a great farming family. My ancestor was Cook of Norfolk, who completely changed... The sheep used to look like goats, and then he bred them, and he used to have these great sheep-shareings that people from all over Europe care.

So, coming from a great farming family, I have great sympathy with the farmers. Do you think the protest will change the government's mind at all? Probably not, I'm afraid. Those sort of things don't. But in the end it might help them. I mean, I think if they could put this off, I think it was... What was how unfortunate it was?

None of us knew about it. And suddenly, you know, they said that farmers would have to... I mean, we all, when we die, we are taxed. But farmers quite rightly weren't. And I don't think they expected that.

Yes, some people will agree with you, not everybody, but why do you believe that farmers are a special case? Because farming is very hard work, and they don't make a great deal of money. And land is very important, and the same people farming, they know their land, they know their animals. And as we rely on food, I think they should be a special case.

It is really hard to believe that you are 92. Forgive me that I've mentioned that so early in the conversation, but you are. And you are enjoying some remarkable personal success, aren't you? Well, amazing. I just can't believe it. I mean, I was 97 and my dear husband had just died and left an absolute, but I can't swear on television. You were 87, I think, weren't you?

I'm not going to say exactly what I really feel because I don't think it would be proper on your programme, but he'd have been nothing. And the children we weren't mentioned at all, and I happened to be... Actually, it was a picnic. I was sitting next to somebody who was a publisher, and I was rapidly getting away with my stories, like I'm probably going to do with you. And he said, have you ever thought of writing a book?

And I said, well, no, I made it seven. I mean, I can't, you know, right. So you say, well, it's your voice we want. And so that's what happened. And I just sat and dictated it all. I've got very good recall. And as I started on my life, I realized, in fact, I had had a very interesting life. Well, absolutely remarkable life. We should say that your late husband was a man called Colin Tennant. Absolutely right. Now, he left his money to his servant.

Yes, it was called Kent. Kent originally had been engaged to look after Connie's elephant. Connie bought an elephant, the only elephant in the Caribbean. And when Boopoo, he's called Boopoo, arrived, there were great many young men all wanting to look after. And he said, I can have that boy, because that boy's got big ears and Boopoo's got big ears and maybe Boopoo will be very happy with him. And in fact, Boopoo was and Kent looked after.

the elephant, and then after Bufus sadly died, he then looked after Colin. Yes, but you weren't expecting him to be the beneficiary of your husband's will. No, absolutely not. I mean, I've been looking after Colin. I mean, I've been married to Colin 54 years. He had cancer at the end that I was looking after. And so it was, you know,

A terrible shock. Well, I would imagine it was more that. I think you are the mistress of understatement in lots of ways. I think terrible shock, probably. Probably just about, does it? You are also someone who has known enormous privilege, which you acknowledge in your writing, but also the most extraordinary body blows that the losses of two of your three sons. How have you kept going?

Yes, I mean, that was awful, because not only was I losing Charles and Henry, I knew they were going to die, but Christopher then had this appalling accident. The other son. The other son. He was in a coma for five months, so I was looking after him in hospital, and I actually, in a way, maybe, I absolutely determined not to lose him. I thought that I possibly can, and I did this coma-kit treatment, and I write about it in my book,

And there is Christopher. I mean, he's very badly disabled still. But he's been married twice, got to very clever daughters, once got a first with honours, kings. And one thing about Christopher, he never complains, he's always positive. He always said, it's much worse for you having me. I wouldn't change my life. He actually said he wouldn't change his life at all.

Well, perhaps he has something of you in him, that ability to... What a crack on, as you say. No, exactly. Well, actually, that's the other day. I mean, what really irritates me is people who complain. And that's why I said, you know, I was walked up, you know, in the war. I didn't see my parents at three years. My father was fighting...

I was in the Scots cars in Egypt, my mother was out there. I had this very unkind governess. And I went to schools, I went to terms, boarding school in the cellars because of the doodle bogs. I mean, we had a tough time. And now I just think what people complain about.

It's fairly ridiculous in my eyes. In some ways, that wonderful spirit is very much at the heart of picnic papers, because the British picnic is... Well, it's a triumph of hope over experience, isn't it, really? Well, absolutely right. And the picnics, we've always had picnics. I mean, right from my first, the very first picnics, because living in Norfolk by the sea. I mean, we had wonderful picnics every day in the summer.

This old sort of bus arrived on the nannies and the picnic baskets and the children all went down. The grown-ups went to their hut, which is in the trees, and we had a hut right on the sea. And of course there, Princess Margaret and Princess Elizabeth, she called in those days, used to come. We used to have picnics together. Princess Margaret and I were always digging holes, I remember, hoping people were going to fall into them.

Which you were her lady in waiting for, how many years? I was a lady waiting for 34 years. Yes. And during that time, you only ever called her ma'am. Is that right? Only ever called her ma'am. I wouldn't dream. I mean, we all did. I mean, I always called her ma'am.

And that was something she insisted on or something you felt was right. It's what I felt was right. I mean, she never said anything, but my mother, you see, was a lady in waiting to the Queen, at the coronation when I carried the Queen's train. My mother was walking just behind because she'd been made a lady waiting to the Queen.

And I learned a lot from my mother. I mean, when Princess Margaret asked me to be a lady and waiting, my mother was able to fill me in exactly what to do, what not to do. You do say in picnic papers that Princess Margaret was capable of tremendous kindness. She was capable of other forms of behaviour as well, we should say, but aren't we all? But when you were going through a really tough time,

She was somebody who was loyal. Wonderful. She used to ring me up on Christopher as I spent a lot of time, most of my time in the hospital with Christopher. And in the evening, she'd bring up, she said, and I'm sending a car. You've got to. I know you haven't been eating properly and you're going to come and have dinner.

with me and Tony. And that's what happened. And then when Tony left, I went and lived with, I stayed with her for a whole year, Kensington Palace. I bought it all flat, and I thought, well, you know, it's not quite ready. And she said, would it be OK if I came for a week or two?

And I say to her, yeah, which is wonderful because I've rarely got to know. And she's such a kind, thoughtful person, which a lot partly I wrote my book, Lady Waiting, to redress other people who've written really horrible books about her. And I wanted to redress the balance

And I have actually, I think, up to a point, lots of people write to me saying that we never thought much of Princess Margaret since reading your book. We realise, you know, she was quite a different character. And I think you do write that you were both at the mercy of your incredibly difficult husband.

Well, yes, because I always remember when she... I mean, Tony was so unfair. That's her husband. Yes, Tony was Tony Armstrong. And he got the press, he was very clever. And actually, she didn't want a divorce. But he, his mistress, was having a baby. And he wanted to marry her. And so, in the end, Princess Margaret gave a divorce.

But after my year with her, when I eventually moved into my flat, I remember her saying, oh, we had such a marvelous time, so lovely not to have our awful husbands with us. And I had to say, well, ma'am, it was rather special.

You were very... Well, I think you probably see yourself as the living embodiment of the stiff upper lip. You don't complain and your husband was tyrannical at times and physically abusive.

Do you now see that for what it was? How do you feel about that period of your life? Well, doing that is interesting, so I wrote about it. In fact, Picnic Papers, which is so lovely, is being sold in aid of safe lives, which is a queen recommended the charity to me.

It does wonderful work with people of domestic abuse. And strange enough, many, many years ago, which most people probably wouldn't remember, but there was a wonderful lady called Erin Pizzi. Yes. And she, I worked with her. And she was the first one to raise money and we bought flats for people. And we said, if you could escape any time and get to a telephone box, we will come and fetch you.

And it was quite often during the night, you know, they managed to get away from their drunken husbands. And you'll arrive at this post. And there was the wife in a night in the children at the night, touching their teddy bear. And we scooped them up, take them away, and, you know, hopefully give them another life. I didn't know that you were involved with Aaron Pizzi. Was that because of your own experience?

Well, I didn't sort of think of it like that, but I think Erin that I met her with Princess Margaret. I think she saw something in me that, and she said, would you come and help me? I just feel you're the sort of a right type of person.

And it proved correct, actually. So having done that, because the thing about writing about domestic abuse, in my first book, I didn't. I didn't want to upset the children. I didn't know how to write about it. But actually, it was partly due to the Queen.

who encouraged me, knowing a bit about my background, and she said, you know, it'd be so helpful, because if you write, other people, and we'll feel, I wrote about it, that it is so shame-y, and you think it's your fault, you see a lot of the time. And because I've written like this, one of the great things, actually, of coming in author, are the letters I get. I get so many letters, and I've had some very sad ones. I do write back to everybody, it's quite difficult,

in a way, I say I don't know your circumstances, but try and help them. And I feel very humble about that. It is astonishing, isn't it, that I saw the Queen's documentary on television last week. It is wonderful. Well, it's really very moving, but it's so powerful, and it's so extraordinary that we live in a time when the Queen can make a documentary about this most

Well, hidden of causes. Well, completely right, because I mean, you know, when I was young, I mean, and joined the Queen's, the late Queen's reign. No, I mean, out of the question, complete. But our Queen has a sort of magic. I thought she was wonderful. I thought she came over so well, you know.

And, you know, I'm so glad. The picnic papers, you see, came out in 83. And it was for two other charities. And my friend said, you know, would you ask Princess Margaret to write a picnic? And I said, well, no, it was embarrassing. She'd never done anything like that before. But anyway, she came and stayed with me. And after, I think, at least two whiskers in the evening. And I said, ma'am, I've got something to ask you.

What is it there? So I said, well, and I told her about picnic papers. And I said, it's going to be so in aid of the Glenbourn Trust. You know, perfectly well, I hate opera. I said, ma'am, I do understand that. But you love Bally. She's great on Bally. And I said, it's also being so, there's another charity that I pay to an uncle, the SOS.

And anyway, you know, she said, all right, I'll do it. And of course, she's written this charming picnic. It's about Hampton Court. Yeah, it's about Hampton Court. And I love the things. She said, I always like a picnic, preferably indoors, because of the weather. And bring your butt to see the nothing goes on. I didn't know whether she's joking with Bill.

It's very funny in that chapter, and I wasn't sure whether she was joking, I thought. Well, I think there was a slide. I mean, she realised, obviously, she'd written it. It was. And what I've said pleased about, because when I thought of bringing it out again in a different form, I thought, I must get some other people to write nowadays. And I've got cos grandma,

wonderful picnic because he's brought up in Ireland, never ever had a picnic. Thought people were mad sitting there in the rain, you know, without blessings, blowing away and that sort of thing. I mean, you've already said how challenging your marriage was. Although, but we need to make clear it wasn't all bad, was it? I mean, there were some wonderful experiences. And you do say that Colin could certainly organise a picnic. And I love the story of his eccentric uncle,

Well, Uncle Stephen only came up for about two days to Scotland, a family home in Scotland, because he lived at Wilson. And when he arrived in those days, we had a bottle. And Uncle Stephen was...

70. And he was still called Master Stephen. And the mother came and said, Master Stephen's here. So he wants you to go and say, hello, he's still in the car. My father-in-law sent his Rolls Royce down. Well, we went there was Uncle Stephen sitting in the car with the flowers and a parrot. Anyway, we said, well, there's a picnic tomorrow. So he said to my husband, well, there is a problem, Uncle Stephen said. The thing is, I do find the color of Heather

too vulgar for words. So Colin saw... I suppose took that in. He went off Colin and bought hundreds of blue paper flowers. And before he went up for the picnic, he put all these flowers all over the hill. Uncle Stephen arrived, took a look, looked at Colin and said, much better, dear boy.

That was it. You see, standards are everything. Just a little bit of thought. Exactly. Well, that's what Colin did. Colin was a master picnic. He was a master party giver, you know? I just want to end by getting your definitive answer to the question that has really shocked me today. The British people have been asked to choose between a cup of tea and a gin and tonic.

Now, I don't want to shock you, but the majority of people have said they'd go for the gin and tonic. Well, I'm with them 100%. I said, I would actually like a vodka tonic because that's my tip of all.

But what about tea? Well, I do, I don't eat breakfast, but I drink tea with milk. I just have one cup of day, actually. Oh, great. Oh, that's extraordinary. Right, we're going to have to call the interview to a halt. The end of Fatigable Lady Glen Connor, whose book is out now, it is a reworking of her 1980s publication, Picnic Papers.

Now, I feel we'll be back tomorrow and we love reading your emails. Thank you all very much indeed for getting in touch. Continue to do so at jane and fee at times.radio.

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