We are the champions. A journey into the minds of multiple All Ireland winners

I've been my youth Time after time I've been my sentence But committed no crime And bad mistakes I've made a few I've had my shell set into my veins

Champion, my friend. And we'll give our father to the end. We are the champions. We are the champions. All the time for losers. We are the champions of the world.

Let me free state everybody. Happy New Year. I'm going to ask Joe. Joe, actually, I think I'm going to... I should probably make some resolutions for you rather than ask you what your... New Year's resolutions are. But what I was thinking... Have you got any? Just to give me a hint. Just get me started. I'm just going to be... I'm just going to be, you know, rude or to people, I think, is right here.

No, you need to work on that. You're far too polite. Even to me. The mother said after listening to the episode about your alcoholism, she said, well, if Dion can stick you, he can stick anything. I said, thank you. I said, thank you, mother.

Put that on the, put that on the, on the, on the program. I did see, um, the, the, the glamorous Burnett first night laughing yesterday. And she, she sent me then a new year's, a headline from the, the Sunday sport, about a new year's resolution. I'm so scared. I'll read the whole thing out to you.

My 20, my 2024 resolution was no more blue jobs, but by half past midday, I had a cock in my mouth. That's, since I'm a real, and then, and then there's a picture of the girl and it says in the wee small box. Oh, you know, daddy and mommy must be so bright. I'm a real sucker. Kirsty loves oral sex.

by Rebecca Stubbs. That is the thing with resolutions. Rebecca gets all the big stories, gets all the big scoops. You know, if you break them early, once you break them early, you've got to kind of go bigger, go home. So you might as well, you might have passed files. She was really going first. What sort of a resolution is that anyway? You'd particularly if you enjoy doing it and you're spreading pleasure. Your guilty pleasure.

Yes. My 2024 resolution was no more blue, but I thought that's a good one. I don't know why it's so funny, but it does bear repeating, I think.

It goes there. It goes there. And it makes you, I don't say it, it certainly gave me a lift. Well, that's the main thing, it sounds... So what are your resolutions then? Go on, tell me. Well, I don't really have any. I'm training again, and I'm... How are you? You can have football again, kicking points, and enjoying the poetry of Gillick football.

everything that goes with it. Although, you know, your body lets you down as Mac Tyson learned recently. But I'm doing that. And really, you're leading a very full life. You know, this child has been a miracle, really. And we last night, she slept 10 and a half hours. She's actually been sort of between nine and 12 hours. And she wakes up, she's glowing.

She's a joy in just watching her come to life, you know, watching her awakening and reacting to the world around her.

I suppose my resolution is not to fuck this up. Right. That's a good one. But we were talking the other day, but it's an endlessly fascinating subject, but champions and what makes champions and the sort of values that are required.

And, you know, it's something we've talked a lot about, but, you know, first of all, you know, you need the right people, like the passion to play for the team. Humility is an absolute cornerstone. You know, you have to be trustworthy, honest, loyal. And then, of course, the player has to have confidence and discipline, you know, real discipline.

you know, sort of a discipline that overarches everything else in your life. And then, you know, one of the big discussions nowadays, which I think is only discussed superficially for most groups, is values. Because your values, in which you can build on and work on,

and learn from others who have good values are the absolute key to your behaviors on and off the pitch. And again, you know, trust humility, honesty, self-discipline. But loyalty for me always being the most important one.

And then, you know, out on the field, selflessness. You know, who cares, who scores, who cares, who know the important thing is the great Bill Russell said, you know, my ego demands for me the success of my team. And that idea of really good values on and off the pitch, which become learned. And then finally,

We touched on this and the last podcast, you know, a relentlessness, you know, to be intense, to be pathological in your application. You know, the champions never slacken. They just keep punishing themselves at a high, intense, demanding level.

And then hostility. You know, I don't mean by that in discipline. I don't mean by that, you know, rash behavior on the field or striking a man or let tackles or the sort of things that that that compromise your team fiddly, you know, getting sent off, getting a black card at a crucial thing. But I'm talking about that hostility that

that is required in the game like ours, which essentially at its heart is war, like it's like a fight in the playground, you know, let's go, let's go bring it on, you know, and by that I mean, you know, absolutely persistent merciless application to what you're doing and to beat your opponent, you know, and I think sort of more or less, if you've got all of that, you've got champions and

One of the things I think you were particularly fascinated about was what made the great Dublin team tick, you know, and the diverse characters and guys who sort of came from nowhere to form the backbone of know what many people believed the greatest team that's ever played the game. And we're very lucky to have two of them sitting right in front of us.

Two very curious characters, don't you think? They were, yeah, yeah. But that sense as well, when you meet old, when you're in the presence of old teammates, that there's something between them that's kind of there, no matter what, you know, it's not, there's a connection and a bond and a understanding, yeah.

And we'll introduce what we're getting into now in a second, but there was a line that comes to mind, one of my favorite lines about sport, and you're going to listen to this, even though it's about cricket, when you talk about hostility. It was said about that really great Australian cricket team with Steve War and as captain, it said, you know, somebody wrote that everyone else plays cricket on a green field, Australia play behind barbed wire.

And that was their approach to everything, this sense of just hostility. And you know, it was, they did, you know, what I believe to be the core of Team Sport is that they took it personally. Like the great Manchester United team was keen in brus and all those guys and cantana. You know, he didn't take any shit from anybody. And often stepped over the boundaries, you know, often stepped over the boundaries.

I suppose you can do that in very long seasons that they have in soccer. You can still recover in time for big games. The great scene in Alex, one of Alex Ferguson's autobiographies where he has to call them all in. He has to call a few of the players in to give them a dressing down. And he's standing there and he's like, you know, he wants a credit give out to them at their lack of discipline. And he calls in Hughes, Cantona, Pallister, Keene.

Bruce. There weren't that many left. He's looking at these lads in his office going, what have I done here? Look at these warriors. Look at these men that I've got to try and give a tall thing to. It's a refusal to take no for an answer.

I mean, in the end, that's what it is. And, you know, I mean, that great Australian cricket team, did you talk about, you know, Sheen Warren, the great fastball or McGraw? Yeah. I mean, they were endlessly hostile to the opposition. I mean, not just the trash talk.

but the attack on their person with the ball, they sum up the sort of values that we were talking about just a few moments ago. And I remember asking Pat Galeroy once you know why he had, because what happened was Feli McMahan, who's one of our guests,

What happened with Philly was that he was so raw, so absolutely unrelenting and warlike. That pad dropped him completely off the Dublin squad. He was only very young. And he was, pad said, like, I said, why did you drop me? He said, I can't. It's not.

Not that I was opposed to violence, he said, but I mean, this was a different level of violence, you know, and he said, like, you know, there were no boundaries for Philly to start, it was, you know, it was like a wild animal, you know. And of course, then what happened was, and it's something that the great John Witten, you know, one of the great sort of, you know, coaching gurus, always talked about, you know, he said, you know, look,

It's amazing what a stay on the bench can do for a player who's not doing what they're supposed to do. If they've got all the other qualities, the bench is their friend. In this case, Pat banished them all together from the squad and said, look, you know, you come back whenever this problem is cured, but we simply can't have it. It's too much. And then what happened was in a way, entirely,

as you would look back now and think, well, that makes perfect sense. This young firebrand, this young sort of kids flatter from Bali Munn was calling a Pat Gilroy's house, ringing the bell. Can I have a word, Patrick? What do I need to do? He was turning up, he was fighting out where the dogs were training.

and he was there a half in our advanced train and ferociously so that they would have to walk past him. No, to either get into the gym or get onto the field. Noventipad said, you know,

There he was when the rest was history. Yeah. And I mean, Patzul, Timmy, Chair Brennan, our other guest here. Probably the most, probably for me, the most fascinating, not a really way far. He, I mean, you know, I told you the great story, but Chair, go on. He's a very young clan for some Vincent, you see, and Patrick was still, Patrick was at the end of his playing career for some Vincent, you know,

Patrick was playing much field, and Jerry was playing set her back. He was maybe 17 or 18. And they were playing the Vienna. And at that stage, Kieran McGinney was playing set her forward for the Vienna. I mean, Kieran McGinney was, you know...

a veteran, Gaelic footballer, renowned, very, very powerful man. You know, a fellow who loved the discipline of UFC and did that all-body combat, et cetera. You know, it never shaped the challenge, et cetera, et cetera. You know, all our little winner player of the year. And Pat said, very shortly after the ball was thrown in, Jared just planted him on his back. And Pat turned to see him hissing into McKinney Swiss. Just let you fuck him on where that came from.

And you know, Jair has read about faith. He studied for the priesthood initially in minutes, and then he just studied then after that. He studied religion and the catechism, etc. That said, going off the field, that time he said to Jair. Jair, he says, can I award? He says, how do you reconcile this violence that you have with your Catholic faith? Jair said, he said, Jair said this was absolutely irony-free, not in a humorous way. He says, go to confession every Saturday.

Well, on that, we will go back into the feast, St. Vold, for this interview with Jerbren and Feli McMahon from July 2023. Before we go, Joe, I do want to wish my local team Cooler all the best on Sunday in their all-Ireland semi-final.

We were out with a friend of his and their family, and they're all heading off to Calvin for the match on Sunday. And actually, the lad who was out with us, he was a friend of my sons, he had actually, he got a brilliant letter from Charlie Burns.

The couple of weeks ago he wrote to jarlet saying why can't we go on to the picture croak park and he's a smashing kid really smart lever kidney wrote this fantastic letter and sent it off to jarlet that a croak park. And his mom was telling me today she got the envelope back and it was addressed to her son and it just had his name and then brackets it said g a legend.

I know the letter from jar that just explaining to him why he had to you know you couldn't go on the field of croke park but he would make sure he could get out if he ever saw me croke park will come talk to him and he would take him onto the pitch and it was a wonderful and it was just an amazing thing of something like that common touch that personal touch that transforms.

You know, and excites people, and it's amazing. It was amazing letter for the kid to write, and it was such a wonderful reply for him to get from Jarla. So as we go into Philly and Jar, I just want to wish Coola all the best.

I think everybody knows what we think of Jarlas. I mean, certainly in the North, you know, we couldn't be prouder of what he represents and his volunteerism and his empathy, his work in the community and the work that no one ever sees. So I'm going to say that our orchestra has covered himself in glory and washem and his family, a very, very happy new year in Silverbridge.

and we have two guests here today. They started telling a few stories just when they came into the studio and we felt we had to get them into their seats and in front of a microphone very quickly before we lost any gold that was left outside the room. So Joe, how are you doing?

Chris. You're happy? Yeah, to have these two very remarkable young men here today. We have, it's our privilege. I mean, that's sincerely voiced. We have Jared Brennan and Philly McMahon sitting in front of us. It looks like a bit like it could have interrogation room. They looked like two young Mormons. At that baby face. And Jared, it's honestly even a free Bible.

Father Philip McMillan to say a few words. Well, I'm just delighted to be here today at this charity event. And the two books would punch the head off me. We won't get into that. So you boys were, I mean, I'm very friendly with Pat Kilroy, but he always talks about... Did you call him Pat? The start of the start of the... You just got to keep, if you want to make a point, you got to keep going with Joe, because he's not going to stop. But the start of that...

And most users were great, obviously everybody knows that, but something that was very exceptional that we could see unfolding before our eyes and that enthralled us all. But Pat always talks about YouTube voice at the heart of what he called the Dirty Dozen, where in 2009 he had your ear and then he dropped you, Philly. I was too dirty.

He said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said that when he dropped you, you, you, you're raved up at the house and said to him, do you not like me? And he said, no, don't like it. And he said that he thought to himself, this is a guy who needs to change, but he can accept a challenge.

When he said by 2010, he then had the four challenge matches against Monaghan, where he says, okay, him and Banti agreed, look, get Pat Banti's brother to ref, and as he put it, they went out and punched the fuck out of each other, he said in those games.

No press in a scheme. Pissingites, as he described it, he wanted to see who had character, who could play. It's an awful pity some of those games, because Pat McEnany said to me, Jesus, you never saw the like of it in your life. Panty famously said to Pat after the first game, he says, did you get those boys out of prison?

I was probably walking in prison at the time. Why actually, do you know what, I used to, only in reflection now, like, you have a little bit of a, I don't know what the word is, connection or buzz from one hand, you know, because they were just like us, they were just like developing and, you know, getting to a stage where they needed to find a group of players, and you see some of them still there now. How long will they be there next season, I don't know, but a lot of lads that you see in the team that

Dublin just played. What a part of that group, you know? They were hard boys. They still are, you know. They were tough lads. Paul Casey was still on the panel with us and Dick Leerken and the two lads had won a Sigerson. They certainly competed together for DCU. And Jordan won those games, opened the inner scheme. The two lads started boxing.

And it was almost like ice hockey where the way it used to be where if two lads were going at it and if it was a relatively fair fight, the referees would leave it cold. So the two lads both caught each other and nothing broken with a bit of blood and then passed us to the right as the office go and the two would have fellas come on.

That was it. I remember Mark and Laurie Ward's. Again, it was a bit of a better shape than what was obviously an old-scale footballer or savage player when he got the ball in his hands. A strong fella. I was trying to give it to him and the fairness he gave it back to me on enough occasions. And then after 10 or 15 minutes of fragrioning each other out,

So it was just a healthy respect for just playing the ball here because he's not going to take any crap off me. I'm not going to take any crap off him. And he want to ground the game as well. Figuring each other out sounds like a good euphemism for whatever was going on. Yeah, it was, um, what was the card? It was a pass and both paths, I suppose. I'm sorry, Banti. I'm back here. I obviously felt that both teams needed a

A bit of toughening up of sorts, I guess, which is why we end it. To be forged in the fire. Yeah, that was it. George Orwell said that all serious sport was war without the guns. You know, you're taking something from me that's very special and that I will lose. You know, that's why I was

So I haven't even spoken about what happened to Derry last week, because I don't mind the team being beaten, but what I hate is a team surrendering, you know, whenever it's there, you know, we had to lose it, carry one going to win it. And I think that that's what's special about your group.

You know, that, I mean, Guillera, I said that, like, he talks about you two. Michael Dara, Aurora, Dennis Bastock, who said, he said, I mean, people thought, right, I mean, Dennis was fucker mental. But he talks about that grip. He said, being impossible the second, you know, the famous, notorious 40 training sessions in a row, sometimes twice a day. And he said, like, Jared and Philly would be there saying, is that all you've got, Pat?

you know, their attitude was like, is this decided? Is there no more? Is there no more? We used to go into the yacht pub in Clantarff after the 6 a.m. sessions and none of us had ever done that down an athlete-born road. And in my head, it would be absolutely an accurate kind of journey, but you'd obviously go on. I was saying, I'm looking forward to the breakfast up in the yacht, because it was a lovely spread, but I was actually lovely club. And that was what actually caught me true. It was just, you know, it's weird to think that kind of get you true, certainly that

That January period and then there was another, we used to try to choose tomorrow and at the end of the Tuesday evening it was snow. And we ended up in Barriman, Kickhams. Now they've got a new weather since but it was probably needed to be ripped up years ago as well. That was 2009. Yeah, back there, back and forth. So 2009, obviously it was dropped.

So, my gym was in Ballyman Kickums and uses to go in and go upstairs to the attic space and stretch out. So, I got in touch with a good friend of mine, Owen Roddy, who's Conor McGregor Strick and coach.

And he was looking to set up an MMA gym in Bali Mon, and I loved combat sports, and I know you do as well, Joe. And I was basically, yeah. So I said, like, he wanted to rent the upstairs, and I said, no, you can use downstairs. And the reason for that was,

When I first seen you as coming through, I was probably saying, Tuesday, Thursday night, to do sparring, you know? Because there's kids walking around, you don't know each other, and we don't want to see, like, it got a club smile up now. But it was purposely so that when the Dublin lads were walking through, they'd see me sparring. And the guy was in the squad. So that was my team, like, you can see I'm doing a bit of walk. This is to Pat, like, you know?

Didn't make any impact at all now, but that was what I was thinking psychologically at that age. Like, you know, I was 20 maybe at work door. I did the following year, like, you know, but I didn't, I remember kind of when he was out training the snarl, and I just know I'm saying to myself, probably not a patting amount of squat now, like, because it was, it was torturous. Like, but it's, as you said, it forged it like to who you, who you became when the ground got harder and the sun came out.

We're doing 1v1s in snow with about 2 or 3 inches of slush on the hour pitch and then 2v2s and you just have to keep going. And you can barely see the ball, obviously you couldn't bounce it and it was just...

It was warfare in a lot of ways, and the panel was still 34, 40 deep at that stage. And how different was that to, like, years before or the few years before? Was that an increase in intensity? The type of training differed out to three years with Pillar Cafe, and the training used to peak between the league and championship on the pillar.

and probably the way in which lads were prepared, which were on the pillar's era. It's different to now, where now it's about being physically in shape, kind of all year round. So when you do have to get going again for the league, it's not that much stress on the body, which reduces the chances of injuries there. But back then, everyone went there well.

And he gradually tried to come and peek, come to the end of the league, I guess, path to mentality. He probably had to ask him, but he would have looked at what Paul and Cody was doing with Kenny. And that was a direct correlation between your league position.

and how he fared in the championship base on the previous years. And again, it's all relative to where you are as a group. So we were a group that needed to be pushed hard early to get into good habits, get a bit of momentum going. Similar to us, I guess, Jack O'Connor's done with Kerry last year, not as much this year, and even Dublin, not as much this year either, because they know they have in the tank. But back then, Pat had us nearly championship fit for the fourth round of the league. So wintering well was out. Wintering well was out, yeah. I was out to that.

You know, when we were going very well, the team was unbelievably aggressive. You know, we went through it particularly on four nice leagues in all Ireland, but in and around that period, the team was unbelievably aggressive even at the chain. We didn't sustain it because I think Derry and, you know, the euphoria went in one and not having the sort of support systems or training systems that there are now. But it taught me that the game was about war, it's about mental strength and who you are as a person.

And I think that, you know, when I looked at you boys playing, I mean, Gilroy said, for example, the chair was the biggest trash talker he ever saw in the family. He said it was just like it was, he said he was playing. Because you say master, was it? You were number six. Yeah. And Gilroy says one day, he says, like, we're fucking trash talkers. He said, I don't know if you remember the day you, you put your head off here and make it beginning. Well, like,

I was on my way up and I didn't punch him but we did a few body collisions and now he was a bit younger and I would have looked up the care on his home as an fairness when he was playing, obviously but he was probably mid-trotty, so I was early 20s playing for Nafina, he was playing for Nafina. And the magnolity was a corner back, he swiped at the ammo, as someone else in the room did.

More than most. You know what I'm talking about? You know what he says that he said to Jared? He said to Jared. I mean, how do you score this with your Christian values? And Jared said, go to confession.

But I used to sit in the chair while people don't know it's like, I'm not very religious. I'm the typical Christian confirmation community and all that sort of stuff, but wouldn't really go to my ass. But I used to sit on the bus with chair on the way home, wasn't the chair? Mostly like, I used to ask him about, you know, religion. And he used to ask him about, I remember sitting there and talking about, hey,

I don't know what the matter was, we were coming home from a game, we were talking about hate. I think that's why it's so important now is because you see the issues we have in society now and the hate that we have in society now. And that day we'd come and say, don't know if you remember it, but I said, do you hate anybody?

You say, don't have it, my buddy. Just put your dirty fucker on the pit. You have to hate someone. That's not hate, like, you know, so... As the hatred, I would describe it from the Spartan point of view that you have to almost trick yourself into false sense of hatred. The moment is as a defender to, and as you described, Joe, it's like they have what I want. So it's us and them.

It was very noticeable, from the outset, it was a very noticeable transformation. Come 2010, it was there, you fell short. I remember that game against Cork. It was a small adjustment, I think that would probably have been one. I think you would have beaten down in the final that year. I think it would have been too much for them, even though they had quite an electric forward line. But come 2011, you could see it, it was like a big

almost like a cloud over a crook park that day against Kerry. This is common, but this is common. I genuinely mean that. You could feel it because there's an emotion in the game and the dubs were ferocious. And I did wonder when you said about...

you know, faking an emotion. What I always thought about you two boys was that there's a great line, Terry Atlas. I don't know if you've seen the Four Kings documentary, but Tommy that man here in Sugar Ray, Marvis Marvin Hagler, and the great Roberto Giran.

And about those battles, and he says at the end of the documentary, he said, you know, people thought this was skin on bone collisions. He said, that's not what this is about. He said, this is about emotions. You know, you're fighting almost against yourself, two men in the ring fighting to find themselves. That's the miracle of it.

And I just felt that about, you know, YouTube boys, there was a thing, something elemental from childhood, maybe. You definitely have to have a chip in a shoulder. I'm the 59 kids, Joe, and the four boys of two older butters and... Cooked steels and bats.

We choose to deal with you for the week. Our car was as we hadn't opened, because you couldn't thought it was enough morning to get the door straight. Yeah, the door is straight. I mean, it's around the corner from the studio here in Mingxianz. My motor go from parallel to just parallel to the street. See, it wasn't as much as it did. No, very little. And you didn't, obviously, you didn't know when you were a kid. It's just...

If there's one thing I'd say, my family's situation is a different story, but that's a security from your parents. I mean, whatever is always there coming home from school, say, in terms of getting the world ready.

And my dad would be bringing someone out to matches or whatever, you know. But you always knew, you felt secure within the madness of growing up in North inner city, I guess, in a lot of ways. But we were, there was actually, it was near the posh part of North inner city, Joe, in some ways, you know. There wasn't much missing going on there, nor is there now that goes on in other parts of the city. You didn't go hungry as a children, I think.

I don't think so. I remember times getting just jam sandwiches for school, or king sandwiches, or a pack of crisps, which I'd... Pack a Christian posh, please.

When you have a skill you end. Yeah, that was, I went to Belgrade College, which is a US scholarship boy. They're on those in the scholarship. Social diversity program. So I think it's up to nearly 15% of all incoming foresters. They take in about, it's probably around 130 students per year now.

So, they're all social diversity, kids that come in. So, kids in Baltimore, North Inner City, South Inner City, Darnell, all those places where they bring kids an opportunity. I've been teaching there for time as well. One or two of the scholarship kids don't last either. They're not able to.

Because there's an insecurity thing if you come out of relative poverty and all of a sudden you're in this different, it's very easy to feel lesser, to feel insecure. And I just wondered if that was something that

the drove you on. I mean, like, Gilroy, I can't speak highly enough. He talks about you playing, coming into the Vincent's team when you were 17 or 18. I mean, you were very shortly on the team before you were all in club champions. And he said, like, this kid, what the fuck? I mean, this kid would have done anything to him. Like, this kid was fuck me. You were like, jeez. He said he was being trash-tocked one night by somebody from Kilmer Cudd.

And Pat wants to see? Yeah. Somebody said, you know, but you know, the only thing we do when we come over here is to take your fucking mocha, knacker. Yeah, yeah. And Jared intervened. Jared overheard him and intervened. That was the last day we said that. You remember that night?

I can't remember the exact moment, Joe, but in fairness, there's a croaks that I've had a lot of time for, just say that now, right, right, right, right. Someone did our sell-slide calls, maybe not so much, but certainly croaks. They actually got out lads and feel you would agree, I'm sure. But they were sell-slide boys, but Pat used to ring me on the slide, and I was studying theology at Minut, so Pat would ring, and he was still playing, and he was 37.

and be the Friday before the game or Saturday. But more often Friday, he used to pay a go if you were matched on Friday, even with championship. And he'd just ring me and I'd step out of a more theology lecture because Pat was ringing me, he'd just sneak out like, you know, and he's about to pack a ring before he'd be getting excited. And he'd pick up the phone, you know, and I'd be very passionate about it. And he used to say, whatever it takes, we'll get and send off, do whatever you have to do to make sure we win that match tonight.

I'm like, okay, bye, okay. I better Mickey was telling him to ring me, Mickey William, because Mickey was manager, you know, I'm certain part of the, uh, uh, pretty close, but, um, it's always to say, yeah, okay, I better do that for Patzo, you know? But, uh, but Patcho was waiting around as well, so you're believing, you're believing Pat. I'm betting Patcho, yeah. But he's a good mama, and I'm, sort of, really tell you some stories, but that's what good mama managers do, that, uh, try and figure out what makes the fella take. I think you have to...

When you were having that conversation, which are about hate and asking about that, where were you coming from and that? Did you have a different feeling? Did you feel like those going to have those feelings of anger and hate?

I don't know how we brought it up, but it was talking about jurors, I suppose, his religious kind of experiences and where he was gone in his career at that stage, I think, Jerry, or think of maybe going a different direction to teach, and weren't you, or think of maybe...

I'm probably thinking priests on one stage, but I've had too much of an eye on me at the time, so I wasn't going to reconcile with the... You're trying too good, looking to be honest. You seriously thought about that?

I would have, I'd be very drawn to the liturgy of the hours which is what defines or put structure on an ordained person, whether in a convent or working with audiences or working for an order. It's the liturgy of the hours. You're more in prayer, you're lost, you're vespers, you're not compliant.

So I have a little glance-out book of prayer from the Benedictines from glance-out. I would have gone down there on a couple of occasions for a couple of retreats, and you enter into the daily life of the monastery, which is pretty cool. And for me, Joe, I can't, I'm not sure they're going to impose my face on anyone else, but it just makes

perfect sense for me that there is something greater going on in the world and that. Trying to tune out the bad noise that exists in the world to allow yourself to, I guess, become one or enter into a relationship with the divine. For me, I've always felt that connection. Absolutely. Absolutely. I make a lot of mistakes and still do.

I'd be lying, I'd be gone against my conscience to say otherwise. Well, I mean, when you've been a marvelous priest, you know, if priests could marry, if we had a more common sense approach from the top, you know, we'd have so many people like yourself who have so much to give, who would have been in that position. I think having the option, Joe, for a guy

And again, whatever patch you want to go down this podcast, we'll even have them females. I think that's something that needs to be looked at as well. It's about time to have the option to enter into a life relationship with another person. Well, it's also serving your fate. I think why couldn't you do it? A GP can do it.

I'm a serging dude. Why can't the priest? If he or she was... Or evangelists in our community, people who work, you know, who are communitaries. Now, on the other hand, Felly McMahan. That looks like it.

Father, they finally just set their role, they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as they set their role as

But I think for me, it was the curiosity piece. This fella is just to give you some context, because he probably won't give it himself. He was the classic clown of the group. He was the one with the band on the crack, and he'd get the young lad to go up to the top of the bus and say, go Pat Wange up there and someone would walk up, and as the young lad, he's patty want me to see now, and they'd be torn around and everybody would be breaking the shit. Little kind of, that was dirt, like, you know, putting stuff in your boots, all that sort of stuff. That was him.

So he was always up to mischief and then to have this other side of him. Yeah. That was curiosity. And the trash token. And the way he played it. Did you heard the trash token? Not really. I never, like I always knew he was, he had a bit of a... Give us an example, Jeremy. Well, I tell you an interesting one, but the guy is still playing, but they're out of championship. So I can tell you about it in 2000.

13 in the league, I got put off against Mayo just before half time. Don't mention Mayo from the jail here. We can edit this better. Well, a certain player came up and gave me a tap on the back and he said, well, don't you go off now and say, if you prayers, you know,

So I'm there for ourselves. No, that's what that prayer said to me, right? And he just looked at his name. It's not fair in him, right? But when we met him in the 2013 final, he made a beeline for him, and I went up and shook his hands, and I said, hard luck. I'll say a few prayers for you tonight. I loved that. And I kept that in me lack of effort. Yeah. So I was like that. So I knew I was never going to lose to Mayo that day, because I said I couldn't lose that person.

No matter what would happen, you know? I think it may have done that bit. See that? Tell us that again? That common to me going off when I was put off in the league, I held that the whole time. Three years? Well, it was just that. It looked like we met him the other in the final in 2013. That has said, there's no way I'm losing to a Mayo team or just particular player that was playing.

the mix of very, very strong personalities. I mean, it was, you must be far too young to remember, but McGill did a retrospective on the great Dublin team of the 70s and how they had all prospered in their communities. Most of them, you know, the massive contributions. They'd made people like David Hickey, for example, for me, the greatest living Irishman. And at interest in the parallels,

that the modesty and humility of the group and the engagement in wider society. But I wanted to come back to Philly briefly about, you know, that your father wasn't turned to mine in a long case. No. There you go. Your father was very young. Your father was very young. Yeah, he was only 20. He was younger than that. Like Alex Maske, he was only 16. He was only 20 when he escaped.

Brian McCartney was, your old boy would have been what my father would have called, you know, the go-to-sleep, my very provobricate. The younger boy, my father was very much a senior, you know, person in there. What does that mean? And I don't know if your, well, he was, you know, he was a school teacher, well-established, you know, he was a scholar, or he would have been seen as someone, you know, who you would go to for advice and all that sort of thing.

And they were very self-sufficient, but I'm not sure if your father played in the inaugural Long Cash All-Ireland Championship, which were held in the cash. The winner is interestingly, we're Derry. Well, here we go. Well, here was Counties. How long was your father? How long was your father? How long was your father unturned?

I don't know. Actually, I don't know. So my dad was that type of person when he wouldn't have 72. I think 74. So he was in near the end. He was in for, but he was definitely there. But my dad is like, I've heard more about me that in terms of the troubles now that he's passed than I did when he was alive, you know, so.

You don't talk about it. Not really. No, no, you tell me a little bit. And then a lot of the stuff would be in like just subconscious or unconscious about, you know, how we, let's say, when we travelled back up to North every couple of weeks, it was the column Frank who's my uncle, like because he was on the lawn or if I am

If you were sitting there watching the TV, like I was watching BBC and UTV, like it wasn't really watching RTA, it was constantly looking at Ulster, or the Northern politics. Was he a false roadman, your father was he? Leonard Aonha. Oh, he's Leonard Aonha. Yeah, yeah, Leonard Aonha. And so he's West, he's West Belfast. That's not fast, yeah. So you grew up with him on the run, yeah, like living, you know, you had your, you were living in Bali Mum, but he was

Relent a bit first. Because for a lot of the listeners, they wouldn't make the... So your father was interned, and that was obviously... So you did the piece before, that'd probably be interesting is that you got shot when you were 16 in the stomach.

There's a video on YouTube where you shot the soldiers, wasn't it? Yeah. There's a sniper and they have a flat shooting down the Brits and he was walking around the corner and the Brits were shooting back up and you got shot in the stomach. So yeah, just 16.

The troubles had just started, I think, there were civil rights, marches, and he was surrounded by that, but him getting shot in the stomach certainly influenced the direction he went. If it wasn't gone already in terms of where he was from and what was happening in terms of nationalist community. But when he obviously got shot in the stomach, that certainly pushed him in that direction.

So then he got interned, tried to escape. I'm not sure the name of the guy that actually died, got shot in the escape. There's a song about it. Yeah. We met the girl. There you go. There's a sound boy. But yeah, and then they were up in court in New York. And they were basically in the Holland cell.

and one who meant the toilet and realized the bar is well loose. And they pulled the bar out in the jungle defense. He came off due to a soil defense and broke his ankle. And they all went on the run. There's a book by Martin Fearn. It's a memoir. And it goes through the whole kind of the escape. It's interesting. It's kind of, it's amazing to think the way people will think of that nowadays. You know, some of your family members are escaping from prison. Well, that's bad. That's negative.

But they were actually celebrating in the court. They were singing the song over the wall. I think there was a huge celebration of joy in the north when that happened. So there were two escapes and there was always a huge joy. Because they didn't see this as as criminals. But it was a community under siege. I mean, I think that

slowly but surely the narrative's changing from what was there. You know, the benign British coming in to sort of, you know, keep these warring factions apart, you know, instead of the truth, which was the just came in and shot whoever they liked and behaved, however they liked and then walked away from it. So you were now, you had no experience above. I mean, you weren't born until, what year were you born? 87.

Well? 87. Aye, so it was well. I mean, it was a fast experience, it was long over by then. No, it actually wasn't. I remember going into particular parts of Belfast and still, you know, block Aids, D.I.R.A. where there was a war zone in the streets. You know, you couldn't, like, certain places where my dad would be bringing me up to speak. You'd be saying, you know, you can't talk because you don't know.

You're from south to down south. I remember going into the pub and I were dying and it was like a celebration of him being back. I was young at the time, but I remember hearing the noise and the energy, they celebrated their own coming back. When he came in the door, there would have been.

And he didn't have to put his hand in his pocket and they actually, he would have had a few bob gone back down the road as well. But like I went down playing football, kicking the ball off the wall against the pub. And I remember just looking to the right and seeing Tigers Bay.

Oh, I swear. And it intrigued me, like, and I was getting closer to seeing what was going on, then someone called me back, like, you know, so that's how close things were when... That'd be an ultra loyal Australia, Tiger's Bay. Yeah, right beside it. It's typical of Belfast, it's a patchwork of street, that's just why there were so many years ago, it's laughed at the names, and they're called them peace walls, stuff but it's guilt each other. This is the peace wall. This would be a stanchow away, like, you know, so... Imagine how fit with a changed fully. I mean, you could have been competing for Taliesin Kopsway Antrim.

Well, I'm dead. Oh, I know. Oh, no Jesus Christ that he was bad enough on the arm. The horn was taken off me when I was younger. But I do think...

A lot of the experiences my dad had passed down into me, so his, let's say, porpoise of defending his people, his family and his community, that's certainly passed down into the porpoise I had in terms of Bali Morn being.

a community that has been neglected politically for years, and has always been a negative perception of the community. So, does it direct alignment from his journey to mine? Which, it's only a recent thing I've reflected on those two things. That's where that comes from. So, you're thankful for that.

When you're raved into the Dublin set up initially into so-and-then, what do we, 19? 19? 19, yeah. 19. And, uh, Gilroy describes this.

a furiously emotional young man who was... He wanted to fucking kill everybody. He says, like, whoa, but I had the man on the plane. I don't know who got two points off. There were one, two balls in a row. I mean, he said, you knew it was coming there. And, you know, it's... I wondered, I wondered whether, in a way,

Gillick football saved you.

It's how you had to say, but it's certainly one of the contributors, I would say, to the journey I went on in life. Like, Ballymond certainly shaped me, gave me gifts, so did people as John's issues in terms of addiction and sport. And that pain and suffering and sport, the life skills I built up around that certainly pushed me in a direction of life because I know some of my friends unfortunately passed away from drug overdoses and stuff like that.

I could have easily fell into that trap, you know. But you weren't trying of a juice, your turds, your saturday, or who knows what you would have got soaked into. Just chew oil, mounds, oil hands. Yeah, look at that. Generally, I would have had...

numerous opportunities to go that route. Like, I'll give you one example that I always use is that there would be in lads, my age, that they would have done a tour of the country, robin supermarkets. And in a smarter way than going in with a gun and saying, give me your money, like they used to get one of the smallest lads.

to pop the tails, take the cash, and then before all the lads would stand at the door, waiting for the security guard to go in, they'd grab the security guard, and they'd go on a tour around the country coming back with thousands, and they'd be on the blocks, and they'd be showing the money, and they'd be divvying it out, and they'd have the best of clothes, and you'd be like in toys, and you'd be like, I want a bit of that, but I never got offered to go on that because of sport, because some days they were gone, I wasn't there, but I'll tell me, but I

He was 6'4", he was able to fight and he would basically, you know, threaten the lads, like, don't, don't, don't think about bringing him on you, what you're doing, like, you know, and, and I've been in plenty of house parties with just being drugs there and it's just being very, I've been very lucky to have seen the pain that John was going through to be able to say, I don't want that life and walking out of flats that I was in, that there was these big house parties in, like, you know, so,

All of that shapes, all that is your environment. It certainly pulls you into a certain direction of life. Football was when I reflect back, it was a huge learning for me. When I went into the squad in 2008, I was that typical person that was told, we want to see what you were like in terms of how tough you are, get stuck into him or get stuck into him. I thought that was the way to do it.

In 2009, I tried to do that and pack it on. He dropped me because I was probably pissing too many lads off. I'm sure lads were gone. He just wants to fucking hit us all the time and he's pissing us off. Who does this shit think he is? There was a learning process to that. Eventually, I suppose I got to a stage where

Managers realized that okay, we can funnel this in doesn't have to hit anybody to an extent It can be an energy But there's an energy there that can be in approval You are too far down to your face

The hard time fitting you to think he was there in the economy in possession and he got cut, you know? He would go to defend it, 1% of the skill he had put back. I remember.

I remember me and Dermot clashed and the best thing I was like, we'd clashed in the championship and Ballymone events were going for it every year. They were getting the better of us and most of them were, I was American Dermot and the championship the year before, two of us had a bit of it. They got what each other, two of us got sent off and then we played each year in the league to follow on you. I think Paul Corn was the manager that year for Ballymone and as far as I can remember,

I would imagine Jim put a call in to say, just don't have Philly playing in the bikes, playing somewhere else, because I would be American there, you know. And he had me playing center forward, but you think that stopped us? We met in the middle at some point, didn't we? Yeah. Did you see who's got residence with you? No, no, he went off and played up. He got away from here. Yeah. But he was sent off. No, no, he was going to send off. He had to go off.

But I was still on the pitch. You don't have to say anything, anything you do. I just said what I said. That's all I'm saying, Jared. Apparently, it's a feeling there. You wouldn't like to get a box off either of them. But when we're paying for Dublin, the lads are always the force to be on the happy children, I have to say. If there's ever been a route or some of those challenge matches in the...

The football is character. Alex Ferguson said, the game is about character, and he's right about that. That is what it's about as you know, and that grip were ruthlessly honest. You can see that even when you boys talk about yourselves and your lives.

I remember him telling me after, because obviously me and Pat were in Trinity to get a very close and all that, but I remember him telling. I used to talk to me about what was going on with players and take a look at this and all that sort. He's always on the hunt for information, whether he uses it or not, but I remember him telling me after you. I think it was when you'd made the break soon, 2011, and you'd gone on holidays.

And he got some really exotic, like, quendary ones. Oh, Ireland. We paid for a rotary. It was a complete disaster. The grip never recovered. Yeah, yeah. And the fighting, and the father, the crowd, and Newcastle supporters, wasn't it? Anyway, to an extent, I'd use that one. I thought it was a proper. But we never really recovered from that. But Pat told me when he came back, he said,

He says, I didn't know how fucking strong Phillip McMahon was. He says, we were fucking messing around. And he fucking pinned me down. Yeah, we're playing rugby on the beat to remember that. He's just a fucking move. That's not a fucking move.

And you played the game just after that, didn't you? No. For charity, was that not that clear? I know. No, that was when I briefly was a national saint. That was... So picture me and you, Joey, sent on the J? There's a picture of me. You boys had won the final then again in 2013. Okay, yeah.

And you made up for life your chosen charity. It's not a charity to accept funds or anything. It's just a campaign for organ donation. Obviously, David Hickey, being the transplant surgeon and being one of the people who set up organ donation system in Ireland, was with the group. And so the match was played down in Purnell Park.

I'd say it's the first time in history that anybody, and it's already much like that, a celebratory tournament has spear-tackled their opponents. Which is what he did to me. I popped over a point. I was still in good nick, you know, I've reached a moment. He fucking turned me upside down and fired me down in my head. The only way I was going to get right here. I was extremely proud of it. Did our kid news, there you go.

That was probably just a lot of traveling a lot of people. We were in a good place, like on set, the win in the All-Orland, and then we were just in the happy space I suppose, and Joe came into the change room and there was the banter straight away. There's a team which I'll wear.

You stand off first of all, don't you? What's this? What's going to happen there? And then you have to crack on him and it's just, you know. So it was a picture of me and Johnny Cooper, black and blue. And he was in between, isn't it? Joe, you're going to get one of these after the game. I think, you know, I'd give a photograph and just emphasize to all three. I think actually it was Johnny, you and Rory. Rory was concussed. And the three of them, the three of them had black eyes. Yeah.

And I'm ready to put that down. I mean Johnny's record, but I think he was concussed. I don't know if he had a bar. He might have had a bar in his face. And the bar already. I'm done, I'm sorry. Two to the head. Yeah. Two to the head. Yeah, two to the head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another great fed up working with a social worker. There's a lot of volunteer work for Kevin's kitchens, the Capagens so many years. So a lot of us sort of come around to that, but...

You know, I'm friendly with Michael Darran. I know the work that he's doing, the intercepting, and obviously you're still doing your prison mentoring, aren't you? I saw your program, which was terrific. Michael Darran is exhibiting his legendary skills again. I found that coordination.

So he says, is he a prisoner? This is like a prisoner. The day, so we obviously for the show, Gaelic and the Joy, we had a game where we trained the lads for two weeks and we said, right, we'd bring the double lads in and we each day was one of them. We stayed a couple of lads and the jump down it was just amazing. And typically I'd make shows up.

Well, I don't know if it was the earlier late, one of the earlier, he's never really just on time. Is he like the right time for things? But I just like, have you got care with you? Like, you know, he's like, no, it's like, it's these big heavy cotton tracksuit bottoms, like they're like, bell and type trousers and like, you can't run around. It's like, it's in the yard of a prison, like, but that that's make all over. It wouldn't look good for the TV, you know?

If we put a camera in the changing room over the years, like, you'd make a TV show out for him, like, you know, in terms of leaving clothes behind, leaving gear behind, randomly walking in. Forgetting boots, forgetting boots, forgetting... Ah, he was just... He's a free spirit. He hadn't really shared any of his things, just wanted to go out the floor. It must have been, you know,

The impression I got very strongly that in 2013 was, because I don't know if you remember afterwards, we all went upstairs into Parnell Park to the upstairs area, and I was there with the Dublin grip, and you guys were basking and you think, you take it you never drank Philly? No, I feel like you're looking like a pure, like so baby, for you.

And to see him up close, because first time I think I'd seen you up close, I think, what's inside that man? I mean, there's some people you don't want to run into in a dark alley. But it was how humble the grip was.

I mean, I remember Cluxin sat there and he really didn't say anything. He just enjoyed everyone else. Philly was usual and bantering and all the crowd. And Cluxin just sat there. He was close to me and he'd just... Take an hour then. Just enjoying it all. I used to do that chair. I used to sit in the change room, right? Over the years, I remember a couple of occasions where I'd sit there and I'd go, there's a fucking head case in this change room. And I meant it in the best kind of way. And I'd look around and I'd...

I'd watch people. That's what I'd do on the change rooms over the years, like look at you and go, acting the bollocks. And then I'd look at people walking in the change room and go, what's this day like? And then it was just studying people all the time and it was so much a mess, massively like in your life, you know, not having that.

You know, nearly the thing slows down for you when you're in that space where you're just like, what was his day? Like, what's he doing there? How's he feeling about training there? What's going on in his head? And, you know, someone like Croco is one of the funniest guys in the team, isn't he? Like, he's like, he's rawly injured. Both of these lads are the same, you know, my real dry, you know, my broken non-stop banter.

because everybody loves that kind of humor. When he says a joke compared to somebody else saying a joke, everybody laughs twice as hard as his jokes in the world because of every drawing for you. People are laughing at me. Maybe, you know, I think a lot about team sport and life in general and the important qualities. I came to appreciate, I think, that

that the most important quality in life is loyalty, even if it's blind loyalty. In the end, there's something about loyalty that is deeper, you know, and you can say, well, you know, I'm counting everything about this, and that grip had that for me, and I mean, that bond of loyalty and trust where there's no, you know. It's still very much there, Joe, and fairness, if any, one of us needed a hand, and you might have seen someone for a couple of years,

A lot of us get married or have kids and your time has gone elsewhere and that loss that you do feel initially when you're a tower and it can take a couple of years to kind of get over when you're not no longer in that environment in the dressing we feel you described. At the same time you can kind of still pick up a phone and reach out to someone if you actually did.

if you were in age and if you were in the last become to help you know. Despite how competitive it was as a dressing room, there was great camaraderie there. We pushed each other on, but we all wanted to be on the start and team. And I remember one of the changes in mindset that I had, Joe, which again is down to a lot of the work that Palazzi did was that

In my earlier years, probably playing in the pillar cafe, I wanted to whoever was playing center back or wing back, I wanted them to have a craft game, or potentially get hoarse, not seriously hoarse, so I could come on, but I'm a couple of extents. In the latter years, and thankfully, while the body was fit, luckily I played most games, but obviously anyone got dropped here and there.

But the few times you were in the bench, you were looking on and you didn't really care. You just wanted to see him to do well, and you were ready to come in when you were needed to help the group. And I think that was the place that the group got, which obviously Jim Gavin took to another level then as well and built on it, you know. A sense of sort of...

And I remember Jim Gavin said, I want to do something for you, you know, because they were going to do this and stuff. And I said, there was nothing to be done. And he said, you know, what if we came up and took your miners' foot-polar strategy and said, I don't even know how you were. We were the kind of title. I said, what do you mean? He said, you know, come up. He said, well, you know, bring up the group. Nice discreetly, and I would take a session.

I said, really? I said, like, is this Conor Merer? Is this Conor Merer? You remember the night in the palace bar? He stood up after you. I think it was when you'd won the 400-year-old Conor Merer came in with these boys all came in, you see, and to the palace bar, maybe with the money, and Conor stood up on the table, and he took Jim Gavin's peak capital. He did a perfect impression of Jim talking about your own, you know,

Yeah, wexford really great team, you know, I know they're call keepers only sort of team But you know, he's one of the best call keepers in the county and we certainly know You know, they're not coming up here to make up the numbers. It said it said but but that that that

those little things, like what a difference for me in terms of Jim Tingenell, so in the box on how much attention to the detail, how holistically he looked at things, you know, we would have done that all over the country, like even little things like where we trained, where we were on training camps, always the club that was there, we'd always have to train the kids' teams after that. All that we do a hard bit of training and then

Oh, the kids run in and it's not like here. So in a few years, it's like trying the kids, like, you know, so we've done that everywhere we went around the country. We did that, like, and he would have done, you know, he would have looked at, you know, things like we did, we did a game against an ulcer selection up in Raven. Raven. For Antofen. For Antofen, again. And Anto would have came down, like, like he would have been there a lot with us, like, you know, every year he would have been there.

God rest his soul, you know, and that was Jim. Those things had a huge effect on the players and still will in their everyday lives and what they do. I remember that came vividly. I mean, that time they came up to do the training session. He combined it with a visit to her. Her third stage was really deteriorating.

But we're still, you know, I don't always like, you know, I'm not there and I'm living, you know. What are you talking about sort of thing? And what an amazing fellow really, but... It makes it great for when you do stuff like that.

Yeah, but they came up and nobody could quite believe in the suburbs. It's club, you know, I sort of said, like, you know, the German, you know, it's like, and everybody came down, you know, and I was like, I said, like, there's no pressure. I think I keep it very quiet and we just tell the boys there's a training session. You know, like these three Dublin vans are there, John Costlow's there, Sherlock, the whole gripper setting up the training session, just as though it was a Dublin session. He spoke to them, there was no big fanfare. They're like, fuck.

Jesus, fuck it. And then afterwards I remember Jim at the back of the van, hunting out Dublin, pick cups, has sort of picked to everybody. Costless has to be able to, I'm out of fucking for some of those cups. He said, did you think you were a fucking refugees or something? And off the way, they were there for an hour and a half and they were gone. There was no fanfare, but it was this thing of being hooked into the community and understanding the community. And I think that that's

What has made that whole Dublin football movement so special? Because there's a lot of other teams that do well briefly. They all become advertising billboards. They're all sort of, you know, cars and it's all that. And it's.

You know, there's a danger that the game at that level can become a superficial soccer, professional soccer. But with you guys, there's never any sense of that. There's a sense of, you know, you can pick up the phone and say, look, I need help, and where do I need to be?

That last sense of identity as nationalist, north and south, Joe, was something that was probably lost and probably continues to be lost with a lot of fellas that didn't grow up in the north, obviously, you're unique, fully in nature.

Her father was up there and his involvement up there too. But any time he went north to the border, Joe, there was always an appreciation of how, again, lucky that we were that we were born in the 70s and 80s and the 90s. We haven't experienced any real hardship, let's be fair.

And you have responsibility to, I guess, represent first of your county, in that sense of being a caretaker, looking after the jersey, but also to the wider GA community and the four corners of the island, that where you can, you have to give back and you have to appreciate what people open the doors have done to keep the game going and to keep that.

I guess that fight had a struggle in the limelight to ensure that there is a quality for all the people up there and that was something starting from Pat and Mickey Wail and I would have picked up on quite a bit that we don't know how look we do have. So don't be coming given out because you're sore over this or that. Just get on with it. We had a manager at Queen's. How's Queen's briefly?

Every time the bust went over the border, you see if you can dance a playing game. I said, look out, look out. They're the bastards that deserted us in 1920. When you talk about that, and you know, you like it's so seductive and it sounds so magical. And you said, Philly, like, you know, you'd miss it. You'd miss that stuff. How hard is it to actually walk away to actually decide, right, my time is, my time is up.

And to do that, when you have that, it's not really... The decision is generally made between you and the manager. So it's kind of the right thing in the wall at the time. There's very few that will leave when things are going rosy and you're getting loads of minutes and stuff like that. It's kind of the time is being restricted and you don't see a job there anymore. Maybe you're holding on to the jersey too long. Maybe you need to give it to the next person.

Or maybe it's a thing where you don't think there's the next person coming along just yet, so you hold on for a little bit longer if you can. And that's crucially what I learned from the lads that retired before me is, you know, you're due to do a job, you're due to do what you can for the team as long as you can. And if that's sitting on the bench and that makes a difference then so being, some lads don't do that and that's fine. That's whatever route they want to go.

For me, I suppose when I had somebody and the management team come up to me and say, I was getting too physical, it was a time when I went, this is the time I need to go, you know, because that was probably the ask of me, you know, in terms of years gone by.

So that was the key thing for me, you know, and the time obviously was a bit, the time was in, I had on to that in terms of the minutes I was getting, and then having a young baby as well, at the time they were all contributing factors to stepping aside, but it's hard because you miss.

You know, it's a void that like, you benefit so much from playing sport. You benefit so much from playing a lead sport as well. Like even today, like I was in the gym this morning at five o'clock. I was in a hyperbaric chamber at seven o'clock. Like, and you're thinking to yourself, who does this now that doesn't play a lead sport? Like, you know, and you're still hanging on to things that keep your life healthier. You know, you still got, and you drop a lot of things as well that you had, but

the longer you can stay, you know, at top of lead sport, in the time capsule we're in, the more of things are going to come to your life, you know, and you miss a lot of other things, you sacrifice a lot of other things, of course, but it's, it's the days where I suppose there's a bit of a kind of a

A rootlessness within me, that's kind of like I would be loved. I'd love to play carry this weekend and win an all-out. That's exactly what Kevin McKeever said that last week. The greatest cornerback of the generation, he kept getting sent off, so he only won one all-star, he's got a little bit seven.

And we were talking about him before, and she was so tough. I mean, Dr. Atmanis Boyd one time, and the blood was good, and Atmanis was like a Quentin Tarantino movie. Because Atmanis had been getting out of me, you see. Frigga McCusker said to me, Jesus, this isn't going to end well, Joe, you know. I said, what's going on here? Atmanis has been happening. Atmanis elbow and stuff, you see.

And McKeever, because he never cursed, he got married when he was very young, 17, and 18, he cultivated this flippin' hell, and flipped the sake on, flamin' hell, and McKeever sent out a flamin' hell, man, I swear, fuck me, I get wired, and the next thing there he is, knocked out, he sent us back to the blood, and he said, Tommy, so gruesome, did anybody see what happened to McKeever, said, I think he fainted.

But that sort of ferocity, you know, he was asked about last weekend, he was on for the BBC on the sideline, and they said, you know, how was the handle, how was the handle, Clifford? And he said, I'd love to be getting stuck in the end today. I wanted to, I mean, I can remember it was great fontless, and I'd, do you remember your battles will call him Cooper?

I was talking to Patrick about this one time and saying like those days, you outscored him in Croke Park, as I recall, and all in a final. And Pat always said that the league game against Kerry in 2010, after he had been destroyed in the 2009 semi-final, and you know, really, it had been very humiliating and Pat sort of had to start all over again.

was a whole new group and then you had your monohone games and then you played Kerry in the league and he always said that game, that was the turning point, that was where Philly claimed into Cooper's head. He said, he said, he said, he said, lads, I want you to do anything, anything up there, I want you to get fucked into them.

I want you to fucking lay down. I want you to do anything. So at half-time, you were wallop on them at half-time, and Pat said, that's great. It was down for Charles Stadium, was it? Yeah. You had gone after Cripper on the way into the scenes room, and Pat says, Feli says, you know, I think you're going a bit far, you know. I didn't tell you to do that, and Feli says to him, he said, you told us to do anything.

Fair enough. But he always says that was the moment that you climbed into Cooper. I remember the day was in Timmy, I mean, all around the family, and you completed the day of the Goldrick. It's always the back, it's always the defender. Cooper, like, so much. It's only 15, fine. Yeah, like, I mean, I suppose he was obviously the

one of the best forwards in the air generation, one of the best forwards you've seen and he'd such a vital kind of role, he dominated us for years, didn't he? Like he really, such a game like here was so good and

I think everybody's level around them came like he was so low. And that was the question Mark, so I always had of how could I get into this fellas head, you know, was really look at the areas, study the areas that he'd come up against in terms of opponents and then there was nothing. I couldn't find anything. I couldn't find, like, do I mark them toy art? Do I mark them more aggressively? Do I, you know, do I do the variable thing or

All of those things, especially the Toronto boys, were dealing over the years when it really wasn't affecting them. You could win from full forward, be the playmaker around the half-hour line and be assistant scores. All right, you had it all. And I just wanted to challenge him then how well he was as a defender. And then fatigue him as he was coming up the pitch.

That was, for me, that was the crucial part in getting the better of them, especially in 2015. Like, it was like... You've been tracking you? Can you be the fender? And then when you get back up the pitch, have you done the hard yards? I did not score a goal often when... Who were you marking the day you scored the goal in the final?

Or was that against me all the gold you scored in the other end of the film? Yeah, I was on a show. But there's definitely one day you scored a column. 2015? 2015. Yeah. Yeah. Was that the day that column was intimidating and you went and complained to David Coltrich? The same day, yeah. You know, that he was miked up and all he knew. He was miked up and then six months later the documentary went and you said to him, you know, David and he was like, it's just, this man's intimidating. David just burst that laugh and walked away. I didn't say that more. What did you say?

I just said it's always the defender because what was happening was I was trying to get up the pitch in the second half so they probably had said that half time just check his runs, don't let him go up the pitch but I was obviously, I can honestly say I was physically bigger than him so I was getting up the pitch but he was probably dragging me like you know and then every time that we were inside

I just had to have my arms look like a clamp. I didn't even have to drag them. I felt like I had the physical strength to hold and contain them so that you couldn't get a separation to make a room.

And it is how he's the defender, isn't it really like, you know, when you look at a voice voice? And you know what I'm starting to feel sorry if you're not going to look at this and everything. I mean, one of the very satisfying things about what's in that group is when a ball was kicked in the air. Like I remember, you know, Kieran Donny, who sort of, I suppose, Otto Clifford came along as probably the, you know, one of the most devastating players that they've ever seen under a high ball. I mean, Ed Nusche, superb under a high ball.

But I mean, the way you guys in the full bike lane went to work, smaller guys. And it looked almost like a plan that if the three of you hit them at the same time in the air, then there wasn't very much the referee could do. I mean, all of you were off your feet, all of you were hitting them very, very hard. I mean, was it a plan? We were like, I mean, like everybody was honed in, we were exposed to,

the, you know, all the different possibilities that could happen in the weeks of training. And that was, like, when you see a team coming together defensively or offensively, like let's say Ross coming against Mayo this year, you know, in kind of like you see that kind of connection of defenders holding together a swarm, like the Toronto teams. That's exposure. I would fail. I think that's exposure that you're preempting. I've seen this in training, right? Where am I? What am I doing? Who am I helping? Who am I communicating with?

And we'd done that, consciously, like, repetition-wise, hundreds of times. Yeah, so if you would have worked on, if you were American, someone like an Aiden O'Shea or Kieran Donahy coming in, you knew that you were going to jump him as such. But so the setup would be, depending on how close the ball might be, coming towards the square.

Your only job on him was to not let him catch a claim. And someone else has to come in and win the ball off, he's out to speak. So you already... Look at him in the air. Yeah, it's whatever you have to do. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and

the full forward he'd be just going near a clean one for the ball you know and then you always had the cavalry were coming in quite well and we were going to create the plus one and three years and a year or so. Do you have demons really? Do I have demons? Yeah, yeah, everybody has demons I think. I think what do you call them demons and I don't know like do you sleep? Do I sleep? Yeah, really well. But like this does I'll give you an example of a demon like I would

I would have dreamtered or fantasized on hitting people's shoulders and stuff like that. It's weird, like, I don't know if Jerry, you would have experienced that, like, but I, like, some players visualize a beautiful score, a beautiful pass, or, I'd visualize hitting someone's screen on a result. In your sleep? Not in your sleep, not as, like, but... I mean demons as in, you know, things that are there that you have to deal with yourself internally.

nightmares, you know, I don't remember specifically any nightmares or demons like that. I have, you know, but and what was the kids fighting all about? You know, you started to do the Yeah, well, I was into kind of combat sports. I don't like boxing when I was a kid. Like, yeah, not not huge. I didn't usually commit to it now because of football, but

It was one of those things, I suppose, when you're from a certain community that you have to be able to handle yourself, like if you're... Where did you do? You actually did kids fit? I never fought now, I never fought. I trained in it, so I trained in me off-season for probably four or five years, you know? That's how you learned to spear tackle boys and charity matches. You know what? I came on camera.

That was WWA when I was younger, watching as a kid, but now when I was younger, I'm sorry, when I was doing, I actually became more, my discipline was much better, because you were able to contain yourself and respond the right way to certain situations where some punch it in the face and you don't punch it back and you're thinking of, right, which position you don't need to get this felt into. That's no different on the pitch when somebody gives you a slap and you're going to go, hold on a second. Think about this for a second.

So, as much as I'm saying, myself and Jerry are probably in a similar bracket the way we played, but like, very little red cards. Like, I think I've only had one straight red that I can think of up in Derry when I actually, someone was hanging out with me and I swam back.

But apart from that, I don't think I have any straight reds after that. So that would have been in a peak part of my career where I started doing MMA. And I suppose gaining a value of discipline. I suppose also you weren't going to be playing for the dubs unless you were able to stay the right line. Exactly. Yeah. Part and gym would have been

You know, you get one strike and after that then someone else is taking their jersey. What is it? What is being a champion? What is it? I don't know how I think. I think being a champion is

in a team sport that we play in, it's doing something bigger than yourself and having an experience of that and giving energy to people is a champion. It doesn't mean winning things. I don't think

All orange are massive and I'd be wrong to say that it's not a part of being a champion, but I think playing sport at an elite level for me was a big thing because of maybe

people from my community, seeing me as somebody I could look up to is a role model, possibly at certain times. And I think that's bigger than anything, you know, that's a champion for me. Someone that changed their life, someone that maybe impacts someone else's life, someone gives energy, someone that helps somebody that's a champion for me.

And things for our champion has been incredibly lucky, Joe, and been born at the right time, and having the right people around you, to guide you in the right direction. And then all of a sudden, you end up in a group of like-minded, fanatical, committed individuals, being guided and managed by incredible people. And next thing you know, in my case, I've won a few odd irons, and Philly has won whatever you want to know.

You want to feel as well so I think from a team point of view, I think luck has enough luck to do in terms of

two lucky club ball there, that's three lucky, so I'm going to wear it. I don't think I can run without explanation. But if you want to ask what is high performance or what does it take to be a champion? I don't want to ask it about you. Well, to be a champion, as you said, you could have said a few minutes ago, Joe, you're actually competing against yourself the whole time.

and that it's even though you're doing runs with the group or you're having in-house AB games and you know your man and that team is trying to get your place and you're trying to hold your place or run back his spot, it's ultimately you're actually competing against yourself so when the little monkey on the shoulder.

kind of pops up and says, oh, you can't do it. I know you're too sore and now you're too tired. All your man's have been in the last two balls. We've got about it. Are you got skin today? You're finished. It's actually being able to say, well, fuck off you. Just said some sort of, Gilroy said a bit you too, because I was asked a little bit of a argument. He said, like, the best way to describe me says, you know,

They, they were absolutely confused. He said, the idea that somebody might be better than them. He said, they'd like absolute self-confidence. And if they, if somebody did well against them, they would be, but whether they're curious about that all about, you know,

I've never remembered the earlier years, I was much more melty and I played a cup with a soccer as well, Joe, a good level and a rope as well, but there was a lot of trash talk on the soccer and a bit in the ropey funny enough now as well, although I'm not back to referees.

But, and that carried over to the football and used to nearly dominate and intimidate a lot of guys. But in the same way, I'm not really described trying to have to get inside a huge head. In the 2030 and semi-final, I tried to physically grab a hold of them, but it didn't work out for me in that occasion.

But I remember playing against the Terrellan boys, and is it Brian and I, Brian, are you going to send the four of them? Is it, Brian? Yeah, Brian, and he was actually trying to melt at me, to try to get me put off, for me to react to hit him in that 2011 quarterfinal.

In around that time I began to change my nearly outlook on terms of going on to the field and in the latter stage in my career I rarely said nothing and I figured the silence was probably more scary than the actual of the mountain and just hit loud hard with your body and dominate them especially. I think for me it worked really well.

Chirping the old career because we're always playing. I was playing in the full-back position, so my job was like, it was game of chess, it was like, what is he thinking now? And if he's thinking of making the sitting room to get this ball in a certain zone.

And then I need to get him to think something else. And the more I take away from his tarts, the more he loses focus, the more I'm impacting his execution or at least. I'm better defenders do that. They're actually quite proactive. And I don't even know if that was something you were probably coached. I think Vettis just do it. A show on the underwear at the bar that's coming down one wing.

I'm going to give your man a nudge or do something smart or pinch him wherever. So he's looking at me instead of looking at the ball and all of a sudden he deals his focus for a split second, you know, it's great. Lee Dixon said, you know, always show him where you want him to go. Yeah. Yeah. But the friends back in Barisay, a lot of players are faster than me for me to be, but I never started A. Yeah. But that was me and center back now. I wasn't fast. So I just tried to read the play the whole time.

You know what I mean? So, on the one occasion, I got skins and it's terrible. Even nearly 10 years later, still, you're still holding on to this point, which I won by James McCarthy and Jack McCaffrey were the wing backs that day. And obviously too incredibly fast, won for players and the Kerry wing forwards, dragged them all over the place for a staff. That was me and the Gucci, the 45. I was gooseed. You're good. That's the same year that you accidentally colluded with Declan Assoul.

That was 2011. Yeah. That was more of a good Irish fault as well. Because he probably shouldn't. That was an obvious accident. That was a big change, like in terms of that game, because of the whole dominance. Definitely, my son-in-law was already over that season. Yeah. And then he was gone after that, was he?

Did he get taken off after or are you using? Well, he probably showed us because he got caught for a couple of plays. He was caught free. Yeah. And there are the things when 3D's dream about Hidden Fellas as a defender.

Like it's not often you actually celebrate a block or you celebrate dispossessing the guy or you celebrate getting out with funds. People go for the, obviously, the real entertainment for the non-intuitive intelligence viewer is how many points did your man score? How many points did you get? Not, well, how many times did he actually block his role and how many times did he track a runner? How many times did he get down in the foot? And we're going to try to celebrate those things as defenders.

What I would say to the teams now, when you're coaching them, it's actually particularly where teams are well matched. It's like a war of attrition that most of the top four, three or four football and the hurling teams physically have been prepared in quite similar ways. And again, if you were to go up to Fiddies Gym and test them with their strength and their power and their 1k time trial, it'll probably average the same way we'd imagine. But it's that war of attrition. How hard can you continually hit? And in the last 10 minutes,

That's where the games are won. What are you prepared to do? Listen, that 2011 was the day you cut out respect for yourselves, and it laid the foundations for, I think, the most extraordinary era of Gaelic football that we've seen, the most extraordinary domination by such a fascinating team. I want to say to both of you, I think that TA people everywhere are very proud of you,

And I want to wish you both well and everything you do in the rest of your lives. It's been awful, difficult for me since Jared said that earlier, not to imagine him sitting there in this priestly robes. There's a few kids. It's been riveting, it's been really riveting talking to you today.

the champion my friend

you