Turning Obstacles into Opportunities | Matthew McConaughey's Concept of Greenlights

This is the Gary V Audio Experience. All right, all right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Gary V Audio Experience. I am Mike from Team Gary V. On today's episode of the podcast, we are sharing an episode from a while ago where Gary sits down with Matthew McConaughey. They talk a little bit about Matthew's life, resilience, accountability, and the balance between responsibility and freedom. If you're someone who's chasing a dream, this is definitely the episode for you.

Enjoy the episode, everyone. Matthew, it is a pleasure to introduce you to the show. Please tell everybody who you are and what the book is about. There we go. Good to be here with you, Gary V. Yeah, we'll come back here. Went away to the desert for 52 days of solitary confinement. Walked out of there with the book. I spent 6 years of diaries I've been keeping. It's called Greenlight.

Stories, people, places, prescribes, poems, prayers, and a whole lot of bumper stickers. Sort of based on 15 years of chronological narrative of my life, and it's interspersed sort of with flashbacks and flash forwards of those prescribes, poems and prayers that come in. And either call back to the story you just got out of, or propel you into the next story that you're going into.

It's ways of seeing is what it really is that perspective, perspective very much approach book and playbook than a memoir. And the name, is it, is it, does it allude to, you know, going forward, like, yes culture, like, you know, because when I heard I like that,

You know, I got a little bit pissed. You know, when my Jets love affair, I always talk about green. I was like, shit, I could have definitely gone with that kind of rally. Maybe on. Don't even get me started. But he's a red light now in chief. So is that a little bit of like where you went with it? Well, so here we go.

What I ended up with is believing that every red and yellow light turns green, eventually, in life. All right, so we love green lights. Yes, they are far away. Go. Yes, a proceed. Attaboy. We don't like yellow and reds. They slow us down or stop us. But I found out that a lot of the yellow and reds, when is it that we noticed that there's a green light within the yellow and the red? Meaning right now, there's no green light with labion bell leaving your chest.

But I apologize because you get me fired up. My green light with the Jets is actually my macro professional mission, which is like, OK, well, this sucks, but good news. I'm going to buy them. And when I do, I'm going to win fucking Super Bowls. So that's my green light within the room.

That one is a marathon versus a sprint, but to your point, I'm definitely picking up what you're putting down, because sometimes I see the green in the fucking yellow every time. The green in a red is a little bit more of thinking, sometimes an hour, sometimes a year, sometimes a decade.

Sometimes on a deathbed, sometimes maybe our great, great, great grandkids figure it out. I don't know. Some of them might. But when is it that we notice? And I think the tool that I talk about in the book is when faced with the inevitable, get relative. So one thing is when do you deem the situation inevitable? And then the other art is when and how do you get relative with that situation? You either persist through it because you want to get what you want or you pivot or you hold up the white flag. No, no, I'm fighting another day for something else.

How much is self-esteem, a layer, a piece, a framework of even making any of this possible? Well, I guess you never thought about it, but it has to be a large part of it. It's funny, right? Notice where I went, right? And I like that you paused and gave it some fun. Like, to me, I'm listening, and I'm already hyped, and I knew this would have plenty of energy.

I'm just obsessed with self-esteem because I think I just think that people fall in love with yellow and red because of insecurity. And I think people front the green because they're putting up fake bravado and ego because of insecurity. And I think a lot about the foundation of self-esteem allowing the triple green light in this situation.

I mean absolutely have it self-esteem and the ego if you don't mind me parlay in those two and both How do you have judgment without that? How you have any identity? Yeah, I mean self-confidence self-esteem self self-reliance awareness of self

They got to have all those to handle the yellow and the reds and not, again, lay down and wallow in them. And I love it over here. Because what everything you just talked about, I was giving you some room because I'm going to get bombarded for cutting you off because that's how I roll. So I'm trying to be better evolving my older age. All of that leads to accountability.

Right? When you talk about all that self work, I'm like, right? And then that part lays into accountability. And accountability actually makes you really fucking happy instead of the reverse. Hey, I'm sitting down at the same dinner with you, man. I mean, it's this idea part of part of this choice about how to find green lights and create green lights, which obviously we can create green lights tomorrow for us by our choices today.

So this idea that sometimes we say it's a responsibility in freedom or contradiction, which they're not. There's a responsibility to freedom and there's a freedom in responsibility. Yes. Relay gratification is what I'm talking. I'm a big fan of. I love being myself up, being cool to my future self, whether it's the simple thing of putting the coffee and the damn filter tonight or tomorrow morning when I'm groggy, all I got to do is push the button. Ah, nice play, McConaughey way to be cool.

You know, or whether it is how I choose to be a husband to my wife or a father to my children. And how they speak about you behind your back in 21 years. Yeah. And, you know, the end of the end of let's just dive into this delay gratification, which I can tell you, you, you. I'm obsessed. Because I'm obsessed with the journey. I like the game way more than a fucking trophy.

The trophy doesn't really exist up. We're just achieving on the way to unachievable the whole way as we're the way I see it. One of the reasons I bring up the death of very iconic people, Prince, I use a lot, others is I try to use that to paint a picture to people of like, you can have a drill in trophies.

And then it just all over like you get 24 hours in social media. You get a little hashtag trend. People play their favorite clip. They quote a couple of your favorite things. And literally it's a week later and everyone's fucking on their life. So what the fuck are you chasing trophy for? Don't get yet the result process process process. So I bring this up. I say I'm a fan of doing this a lot too. I like to before doing a movie say sit down with the producer and director's Hey, what's the poster look like?

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

You know, so much has made, so much makes sense to me about my observations and interactions with you right now, now that we've gone to this place. Talk to me about the book from a different way, because we have a big audience on this, and there's a lot of different people, and now I'm going to focus on the people that are thinking about books.

Did you always want to write one? Is it as simple as you went for this? Because I was aware of that little adventure you took. Did it really hit there? What would you like to happen because of it? How much around legacy and what's the poster? What would you like to happen? Give me the selfless and selfish altruistic and personal makeup blend of this for you.

And we'll get into selfish selfless later on those two are those two. You like that one, right? Yeah, I'm about that. Yeah, I get it. Go redefining it to the world. That's a big fan of it. So listen, I kept diaries for 36 years in my life. Just because I'm going to double click because this is fun and we got a little time. What, why did you start day one? What happened? Well, 14 years old probably started it because, you know, Gretchen Donley broke up with me and my, my,

I went to my diary, like most people go to a diary or journal, whatever you want to call it. So I went to a diary for my first years of when I was lost, trying to figure shit out. Oh, heartbroken. Man, figure this out. Why do I got pimples? What's going on? What's this pubic hair coming in? Why won't mine come in sooner?

that. So then it started off the way with going there to figure out figure things out. And I get my 20s, I got some great relationships going, schools cranking, I got a job, I'm rolling, catching green lines. I remember saying, hey, you better keep writing in your diet right now, why you're succeeding, why you're rolling, my hunch was, you're gonna be you're gonna get in a rut again.

and you're gonna need something to look back on to recalibrate. I mean, if you're enough, I found a rut as we all do. I was able to go back to those diaries and go, what were your habits when you were rolling, when you were catching grenades? Who are you hanging out with? What time are you going to bed? Where were you eating? Where were you going? What were your morning rituals? Oh, you spent a little more time with yourself before you engaged with the world. Oh, I got you. You took that little while, okay? And I went, it got me recalibrated. It got me back on the rails and it helped me get out a certain rut.

and find green lights again, find my frequency again. So, kept those diaries, looked at them all.

Seven to eight categories came out that I mentioned barely from the people, places, free scribes, poems, prayers, and a whole lot of bumper stickers. And then the theme of green lights started to emerge out of those categories. I noticed how I'd engineered green lights in my life with certain choices I'd made. I teed myself up for more Saturdays in my future, given myself no more reasons to look over my proverbial shoulder to see what I'd left behind, which gave me less stress moving forward and gave me more presence in green lights.

So dwelling, dwelling, the elimination of dwelling. Well, I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated on people's inability to understand that there is no time machine. This notion of I wish, you know, it's imperative to learn from pattern recognition, mistakes, strength, imperative. Yes, dwelling.

looking back and dwelling and spending all of that prevent defense using football. That's something I'm desperate to push on people. I know you made the wrong decision.

Good news. There's absolutely zero chance you're going to go into a time machine. So, take the learning and just go on fucking offense and eat shit for another six years to give yourself a chance to get to that same fucking road and this time make the fucking right call. I think it's all offense. I think every step is affirmative even if it's considered going

backwards. Look, going back and looking at 30, 50 years of my diaries was an intimidating idea. I said, Oh, shit, I'm going to be embarrassed. I'm going to be shamed and I feel guilty. I'm going to be arrogant prick at this time enough. I felt all those things. But most I ended up laughing at some of the you just took the words I was going to say, you I'm curious the first time you just still have to ask.

Well, I mean, stuff I was like, oh, God, it's been a blast. I looked at stuff I was shamed for. I was like, oh, you kind of already forgave yourself for that. You've moved on. And so a lot of the book is about me going off into solitude at times, which I think is a good practice for everyone to do. And the reason I bring that up is because it's attached to the word dwell, but it's not. And it plays into this example. You just said, six years good on get out of it.

Every time I go away on my own with my backpack on my own, the first 12 days are hell. I do not like the company. How many times have you done that?

six to eight, 10. And are you saying that the prerequisite to you doing that is often the fact that you know you need it and what you're doing is reconciling with yourself in that early part? Well, I need memory to catch up. I'm in a world where I'm getting too much frequency. I've got no demarcation between events. I'm kind of playing on autopilot and I'm doing okay, but my head and my heart do not have an auto bond between them. There's a bit of a dirt road and I got to clean that up. I got to feel my feet on the ground spiritually. Maybe I feel a little

And so I need to go off and I need to let memory catch up. I need to go listen to myself and find some discernment into my own judgment. What do I want from me? What's going on in the world? What's the reverb here? What am I giving to it? What's it giving back to me? Get some clarity there.

happens, you know, especially when things are rolling. This is usually coming out of major green lights, where I need to go away to go. Is that green light plugged into a battery or? You have you learned that off those epic green lights, that if you don't go do that, you crash from the energy and it puts you into like you were off of this high. It was rolling. This was so delicious. And then in that in between, which is completely always natural for all of us,

that the drop office, it doesn't feel great. So instead of doing that, you're going to go on this offense and go take that backpack trip. And it's going to make a productive time instead of kind of coming down from the project or think, yeah. Well, the come down will be when you look up and you go, oh, all the affluence that you noticed, all these. So half the green lights were plugged into two-volt batteries, and they were never going to last very long.

And it's going away to get rid of the ones that are plugged into the toy batteries and go into the ones that go, oh, that's solar power. That's going to burn forever. That's burning after I'm gone, which takes you back. Yeah. So what I hope comes of the book, man, I hope it can help people get find their free. I hope you hope people are going to, I think people are going to laugh their ass off. It's some killer stories. I did find out that the stories. Did you work with a ghost writer? I work with a ghost writer for my books because I'm very conscious scream and it needs to be structured for me. Or were you able to get there?

No, I went solo. I had to go right at the beginning. Stephen Cruz, who was from the New York Times. He had written a cool article on me. I reached out to him. We got together one time. New York Times pulled him off the project, which then me and my wife, I looked in the mirror and I was like, that's the best gift I could have been given. And she goes, yeah, get your ass out of here. Take your journals. Don't go back to your house.

So packed up steaks and bourbon and headed out. And so what I hope men people get out of. I think people are going to see some killer stories. I am a pretty good storyteller. Now the thing I did learn is that I thought telling, I performed a lot of these stories. And I thought if I just transcribed my best performance to the page, that'd be the best written word on the page. It was not. It needed to be about 30% shorter. You got to pick a word out. You don't get the lilt of my voice going up to tee you up. Here comes the punch lot. You don't give me that. So we're working.

Um, I think you're going to, people are going to find some wisdom bombs in here. I picked up a lot along the way. I think they say there's a lot of bumper stickers. What was that to make to make this fun? Cause I know the process of book and it's really, really fun. Who, uh, any story you can share with us, they haven't shared yet or you have, uh, of somebody beating it for the first time, your inner circles, the first 15, 20, 30 people.

and anything that like either collectively they latched on to and or an interesting observation from someone that was fun for you. You were like happy your cousin or your best friend or anything cool like that in the first. I got a call yesterday from Don Phillips and he's a character in the story. He's the casting director. I introduced myself in Austin, Texas in the summer of 1992.

who'd later on at 3 a.m. after we got kicked out of a bar and we're smoking a joint on the way home in a cab. He says, you ever done any acting?

come to this address tomorrow morning and there's three lines in this character which ended up being three weeks working a film called Days Confused and I moved and it slept on his couch when I moved out to LA and he's the guy who after about a month where I'm down to about $800 from my pocket and I'm telling, hey man, I need to get an agent and he snapped at me and gave me one of the best lessons I've ever learned. He goes,

This town smells you needy, you're fucking done. You guys, what you need to do is get the hell out of here and go off and get lost somewhere. Go to Europe, go ride a goddamn motorcycle, something, quit thinking about making it in Hollywood. Cause this place smells you needy, you're done. He was right. That was another, that was one of the guys who actually, a rite of passage of a guy pushing me out of wanting something so bad and he's right. How to come in needy.

So I get a lot of the leverage. You come in needy, you give up the leverage. I showed you a month later. I'm not even thinking about getting an agent.

Well, now it's time to go get an agent, because I'm like, I just came from somewhere, man. Hey, everybody, actually, if you're a really hardcore listener, you know I never do this. I'm sorry to be jumping in the middle of the podcast, but the truth is, I'm like shitting the bed on this. Everybody else is getting people to review on Spotify and Apple, and the VaynerNation does none of that, because I've never asked.

If this podcast has ever meant anything to you, please go to Spotify or Apple right now and leave a review. By the way, even if you give me a one-star review because you think it's shit, I respect it, but just leave a review, an actual review. Four or five stars and the actual details of why, yeah, that would mean something for me. So thanks, now back to the podcast.

My Hollywood, like my knowledge in sports, uncomfortably deep, I'm much weaker in like movie culture and like acting culture. I obsessed with Jason Confused, like one of my favorite, favorite movies and I'm not even a big movie guy. There were so many, so many of you in that film. I love those coming of age movies to begin with. Did that, this is probably a very basic question. I'm sure people like booing at me right now as they're listening to this.

Did you get instant acclaim from that? And that was huge leverage. Was it a slow burn? Was it instant? Like what happened? Like movie comes out. You got me in the door.

Got me in the door. Got me in the door. Got people curious. Got people curious, right? Yeah. Well, it gave me something from a resume. You know, the agent's not going to take a meeting with you. But it wasn't like you, like, it wasn't like tons of people reaching out and said, okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Yeah, I mean, that same age line is like one of the great fucking lines ever. It's what I call that a launch pad line. That's fine. That's working in three weeks. But now I worked off a Basie because Richard Lincoln wrote that line. Oh, is that true? That was the line? That's the line. I mean, I mean, that's that guy. There's an encyclopedia on that guy. If he believes that he that's what he loves about high school girls, he gets older.

Mate, is that that guy? There's a huge, very thick book on him. Yes, for sure. Anyway, I get a call from Don Phillips yesterday. And he's in the book, and mind you, he's in the book where... And how often do you talk to Don in real life now? Like it could run hot and cold, like sometimes six months? Every couple of months we check in.

every couple of months and we met back in 92. But he's in the story, you know, I mean, about I show up at his house when I'm first pull out the Hollywood on the 26 hour drive from Texas and I show up and he doesn't answer the door and I keep thinking he shows up the door with a, with a boner and basically like, hey, can you come back later? I'm like, no dude, I just drove 26 hours. So there were things in the book and I called them before them being in the book. I said, look, I'm going to tell the truth of our stories. And he's like, great. Okay.

When you read the book, and I don't know, he's older. Sometimes people get older in their life and they look back and I'm like, I didn't do that. Don't talk about me like that. Well, he didn't. He loved it. He goes, man, the book is so humble. It's so true. It's, and people this, I've had a lot of people tell me this. It's a Hollywood, am I a celebrity? Yeah. Do I tell stories about some of Hollywood? Yeah. But a lot of people have told me this. One of their favorite things about the book is what it is not.

I love it. I'm not a disher. I don't dish on people. I don't tell bedroom stories. And I always say this, that's why there's doors on the bedroom. It's on your business. It wouldn't be decent. There are people that I could have named them in the story in order to put a thumb on their face, but I don't have a problem with them. That was who they were. We've forgiven each other. We moved on. I'm not going to. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't play the game. So those stories, no names, but, but you create the story. Have any of those people reached out?

Yes. That's cool. Yeah, they have. And in a cool way. Because the more, you know, there's people, like I said, there's people, there's places, everyone's, I don't dish on anybody. I didn't feel like that. That isn't what I wanted it to be. When I first went to write the book, I understand I got some equity as an actor.

Somebody's gonna buy the book because I'm kind of he wrote it. Some people won't buy it just because I'm kind of he wrote it either way I remember saying this Hey, can you put go put words on a page that are worthy of being signed by anonymous? But at the same time be only only you could have written it That's the idea of where I was where I was headed. How how is it actually have a great question That I'm curious about how is promoting a book like doing this show? I've seen some other stuff on social. How is it?

Is it or how is it different than promoting a movie? Any, any, any tidbit there? That's kind of funny. Anything you've kind of picked up on? Here's my favorite thing is this is.

I wrote this one. I directed it. I produced it. I don't have to prepare. Look, I've gone out and I'm honored with what I was able to put out. I've gone and chosen to sell movies before where maybe I didn't love the movie and it wasn't getting a great reaction. And I can tell if you saw it, you go, yeah, interesting stuff. It was cool. So anyway, McConan. You've got to be a professor.

pick out two things that I'm saying that I wrote down there to my positive sort of go to things to say about the movie. But now I don't prepare for any of this. I actually have a fun question. The movie that when you read it.

And this might be a tough question. Again, I truly don't have a good sense of Hollywood culture enough to know if this is a tough question or not, but I'm gonna ask it, because I'm just genuinely curious, because as a businessman, some of the ideas I have in my head.

to then see how I executed it. I mean, how this sucks. And I control a lot of that. As an actor, you don't. Literally, you thought everything was going to be epic. And then it just didn't post well. You know, like the post production, you're like, really? What movie were you most hyped about?

And then you were like, fuck, man, that didn't go. And then in reverse, what movie were you? And by the way, it might be something you thought was going to be a plus, plus, plus, plus, and was a B minor. I'm not talking A and F. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then in reverse, what movie were like you most, like you were most of whether it was your age and what? What's the reverse? So yeah, which one did you come in the hottest? And we're like, and which one were you coming in with the most like that? I don't know. And like, holy fuck. Well, all right, let me answer this.

All right, I could say this, man, for a day and a half. The Alspires Club was a movie we made for $4.9 million in 25 days. That was a movie that almost like never got made, and we wheeled that into existence by now asking permission. And that movie, again, I claim I don't know a lot, but for some, because it was such an epic one, and you were fucking insane, and it was so epic, that movie was bouncing around as a story for a while, right? I was attached to it for about five, six years before, but no one would make it with me.

No one wanted to make it. I was making it again, my lack of knowledge, just putting up the money to do it. It's going to pay for the money. Period piece A, Sean, with McConnell hand in the lead. No, no, no, no. He's rom-com shirtless guy. That doesn't make any sense, no way. Right, right, right. Because you were coming off of that. Yeah. You were in that place. And by the way, as an actor, is that important? Like, are you sitting there and saying, fuck, like, if I don't show some other side, I'm rom-com to the end.

We'll check this out. And you'll see when you check out this part of the book, and it's part of those affirmative ways, it's not too well, but to go into a pennant to get out the other side. I look up and notice, I'm rom-com romantic comedy guy. And I'm owning this because I'm like, you damn right, those rom-coms are paying for the house that I'm renting on the beach that I'm going shirtless on.

You know, so, but I did notice, well, I want to do something. No, no, no, no, you can't do that. And I noticed I was like, oh, the industry and the public are nothing other than rom com shirtless count on the beach. That's when I went, okay. Well, if I can't do what I want to do, I got to quit doing what I've been doing. And I went off back down to Texas and hid out and called my agent and money people and everything said, I'm not doing those anymore.

20 months. Nothing. No worries. 20 months. 20 months. And are peeps getting antsy around you? Like, hey motherfucker, do one.

No, I called it early on. I mean, I called, I had, believe me, I dropped tears to make the decision because I was like, I even thought about it and changed careers. Now mind you this, at that time, this is when Hollywood really got the message about six months into that sabbatical of saying, I'm not doing those. An offer comes in for a 50 to eight million bucks. I said, no, thank you. They come back 10 million. I say, no, thank you. They come back at 12.5 million. They come back at 14.5 million. I say, let me read that script again.

I read the script, Gaby. Guess what? And it was the exact same words as the original offer. But I read that script to get in and it was better written. It was... It was better written. It's $45,000. The $45,000. The $45,000. The $45,000. You did it? I said no. He said no. He said no. He said no. Wait, real quick for fun. I love this shit. Was that movie made? No. No. Did not make it.

They did not make it. Hey, by the way, on that note, one of my other favorite things about Hollywood that I don't know the stories the way I know sports, anything that you passed on that went on to slay and the actor fucking crushed any of the you have any of those in your I got there I was off a role in LA confidential. And I remember it was the

I don't remember the cold roll or the guy roll, but I love that movie. And that was a really good one. I was off. Well, the timing, was it money? Was it you weren't into? Like what what in a path it was right around the time when a time to kill was coming out. So all of a sudden, I go from a weekend, I go from a Friday before time to kill comes out, which is the movie that came out that sort of I was the lead in. It was a big studio film. The Friday before that comes out,

I'm wanting to do any 100 of these scripts you're offering. But you're telling me, Hollywood's telling me 99 times, no, one of them you can do. Well, Monday, 60 something hours later, it inverted. 99 out of these 100s you can do, yes. And so it was that. Whoa, wait a minute. What am I supposed to do with all these yeses? How do I get some discernment and discrimination in these yeses? I don't know. Three days ago, I would have done any of these. Now you're telling me I can do all of them.

I need 24 hours in a day and they're not giving it So I said I passed because I just wasn't sure I wasn't sure a lot of stuff that time at that time So yeah, here's the thing with me on movies. I haven't they I've never done or been a part of a piece of art that actually met my expectations Do you think you ideologically decided it will never happen

because of the way the machine works. I kind of weirdly understand what you just said, which is why I'm going to where I'm going with this question. Do you believe that's because you were observant enough to understand the macro and thus immediately deemed it will never happen? I think we may be saying the same thing. What I'm saying is earlier when I said there's no such thing as a trophy.

And then I don't ever, I've done, look, some things have been different and better than I thought they would be, but nothing has ever been nor has any performance I've ever done gone, ah, perfection. What about, what about you, what about you watching someone else, you know, in the, in the cocoon of the industry, because I'm sure your relationship with the industry ebbs and flows. It's like me with wine, but in it, in it, in when you were really observing, did you ever watch a performance to say and said, my,

Jesus fuck, like what the fuck was that? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, but really, really, really, because there's those incredible performances, I know that, but like from your perspective, because it's subjective, curious what hit your radar is like, fuck. Yeah, um, you know, let me just say this, I like making movies more and I like watching them.

I haven't even seen all the ones I've been in. And it's not because of any, I just, we were talking earlier about that gap between what we want to do and what we actually get done. All right, there's a gap between what I want to do, what we do in a raw performance and what's actually get recorded on the camera. Then there's a gap between what's recorded in the camera and what's added. And then there's a gap between what's in the final picture. That's right. Dieback thing is like, what's different about the bookstore?

What I, the example I just said is four filters away from the raw expression. Where is this? This is one filter away because it's just, it's a written word. You and I right now is the filter list. Stand up comedy is the filter list. I love it so much. That's why even the way I give keynotes has nuances of it because it's the most fucking unfiltered. That's it. That's the nectar. That's the really straight one on one without a filter translation. Have you ever, have you ever cried when your favorite sports team lost a game?

For real? No. What's the most pain you ever felt in a loss in sports? The most pain I ever felt in a loss.

While you're thinking about it by a few seconds, I cried multiple times. Like six to 12 times a year in sports up until 22 years old and then just stopped. I cried when Garrison Hearst broke off a 98 yard run against Jetson overtime in 1998 in week one of the NFL season. Literally like a break.

And I think, and that was the last time, by the way, and I wonder if I realized somewhere in that moment that I'm 23 years old, it's a week one. It's a week one. Oh my God, you must be crying a lot. Oh man, it's real rough right now. But honestly, you know, it's funny, this might really strike you. I'm a huge sports fan. The Rangers in 94, and then the New York Rangers in 94, and the Yankees in 96,

became my first two championships. You know, I started 82 with all four teams. And literally, literally the second they both won their championships, I basically have not watched a single game. Like, I've watched a little bit here and I've never watched. I don't think I've watched a complete game of either team since their champion. I'll journey.

Which is why that shit. It's one thing to be like kind of passive after a championship. Most people double down after a championship. And I don't say it with a badge of honor. I'm just fascinated by how real that is to me.

Well, I understand what you're talking about. I mean, the trophy, the championship is the noun. It's static. It's got a period at the end of it. The getting to it is the verb. By the way, it's motion. Why do you think I like the Jets so much? It's so fun to be this year. I'm the happiest. You've got good job security with enjoying this Jetship. I mean, it's true.

That talked to me about wine a little bit. I know that, you know, we through the years have talked about that. Like, where are you in that journey? Like, you like it. You know, obviously, bourbon, you talk a lot about it. You love that. Like, where do you, where do you sit with wine? If anyone else is.

Red guy, I'm intermediate guy. I've been introduced. I've got friends that know a whole lot more about wine than I do that turn me on to. And you like a lot of others enjoy that six guy, 10 people together. Like that wine night is like a fun night for you. Like yeah.

Yeah. And like I said, I'm also a fan of a little bourbon and some tequila as well. But no, come on. In a finals match, bourbon versus tequila, is it bourbon wins or tequila win? Ooh. I don't know. That's a good one. I like that. You go back to that other question you had a minute ago, 2010 University of Texas.

national championship game against Alabama. Yes. Our quarterback gets dinged on the goal line early and they're like the opening drive and he's out. We get beat. Ooh, we didn't have our starting quarterback for the rest of the game. What would have happened? That was a what if hurt?

What about UT basketball? Have you ever historically gotten hardcore about that? Or is it only been football? Getting more hardcore. Yeah, because I'm getting to be friends with our coach, Chuck Smart. I've got to know some of the young men on the team. You're starting to get in more. And we're building an arena, which I'm part of the culture and the new arena where the men and women are going to play basketball.

I love that. What about startup culture? I know that a lot of my friends in startup culture have nice relationships with you. The Silicon Valley, the app culture, where do you sit with technology?

leaning and learning into it more now than I was before. Friends of Art, Gio Seria, introducing me to things and learning the new vernaculars, whatever. There are a lot of startups in Austin that some of them I'm reaching out to that I like their product and they're in Austin and we could have some part and parcel

partnership in between the two of us and a business that I'm starting there in Austin with the Ministry of Culture work. So I'm learning more about it. You're flirting more in that arena. I'm definitely flirting more and understanding it. It's a new thing.

And if I asked you entrepreneurial spirit, where do you sit today at 50? Were you a lemonade stand kid? Did you hustle that way? Was it more art and storytelling? Has it grown? I'm more entrepreneur now than I ever was at 50. And it's part to go back to another word you mentioned. It's legacy choices now.

So what are the choices that I can create? Like this Ministry of Culture is a category that I actually, I assumed and created. A lot of people think it's political. I'm like, no, no, no, it's in the slipstream. It's about values. And it's bipartisan and non-denominational. And it can still also be a business. So at 50, I'm going, what choices can I make that I can hand off to my kids and they can hand off to their kids? That's going to be a shadow that goes on.

And I don't know if I'll do more movies, but movies are capsilized because they're little pieces of time. I'm trying to challenge myself to go, hey, the big show is life. It's live. The recorder's always. But it's awesome that you like that you're, I think a lot of, I watch a lot of people in all arenas just kind of completely walk away from a thing that was the major stepping stone. I've always liked the idea of like,

I'll go back to movies. To me, I started a wine brand last year. I sold it recently. But I always kind of knew, even though I really needed to walk away from wine, because it was all I did, that I would come back to it. But at that time, call it 2011 to 2019, I just didn't want to as much. And even now, I'm like, and I will again in 17 years. I think people close doors that are usually their first step, almost out of ideology,

or out of not realizing that, yeah, cool, you're burnt out now, but don't put a final nail in the coffin. You don't have any clue where you might be in a decade mentally about that thing. Right. Well, so like you just, you sold your wine, you were into it. It was, it was, it was an obsession. You sold it. Was that like the, your, your Yankees win the championship that you put it away? Or is it you have it sitting over there?

That was a little sweeter. I started it only 18 months ago. So this is the winery, not my dad's wine store, which he still owns and operates my family business. I started a winery 18 months ago. That one has a much more warm feeling in my soul. I had two partners in that business, Nate Schroeder and John Trowman. They started as interns for me a decade ago.

Okay. So the story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like the thought that the collateral of my skill set could put these two young men who I adore, like younger brothers, in a position that changes the course of their lives, at least financially, which is only a piece of it, but a piece of it.

was too romantic to say no when the opportunity came. That drove me remarkably in a very serious way. That's what drove that decision.

Well, so that door is always open. There's no final trophy on that because those two young men, you're going to enjoy watching where they go and how they do it. Even more fun back to leadership and coaching. I've got a thousand employees right now that I have at least 60 of my people in that ecosystem of wanting to rep. So yeah, there's nothing more fun than loving people. Loving people.

is an imperpetuity game of happiness. I often make jokes about not liking animals because A, I probably skew under most people with dogs and other things, but I really believe it's because of my love affair with humans. Walking down the street, I have a warmth towards people and I really recognize that most people don't go there.

Let's lean into this to where we are right now, where we're heading. All right. I got asked this the other day, where do you lie on trust? Okay. And I'm like, they hadn't thought about it. And the person asked me and I said, look, I go into, I'm talking to you right now. You have 100% of my trust until you don't.

I don't think enough of us are looking at the world that way right now. I need your distrust and major disbelief and you come in with a hero until you earn it. I hate that shit. I hate that shit. I hate that. Who the fuck are you? Why are you so fucking audacious? Who the fuck made you special enough that another human has to

earn it. Fuck you. Where's your humility? I'm a hundred percent trust. As a matter of fact, I fight a lot of time. I need to work on myself to try like when trust is broken. I'm still trying to come up with empathetic scenario for the other person. I would be very bad at baseball. I think I'm seven strikes and you're out like three strikes don't even fucking register for me. And that's something now what that's done is also created a subconscious resentment.

that I've had to become, as I continue to go through my process, I'm like, oh, right. I think that it's seven strikes in your out, but what's happening is with each strike, there's a little bit of fluid going into that bucket of resentment. I might be able to eat it, because I'm strong and I don't. But I'm building it, so I have to be more thoughtful of having candorous conversations with people I care about, so I don't get there.

Yeah. That's what I retweet. I hear you. I don't, I can't allow seven strikes. That's a resilience. You're going, no, I can handle it. I can handle it. I can handle it. I really believe it. If someone does scar me, um, and on the, on the role of forgiveness and moving on, man, if I see real, a real sense of retribution and on their end, when the guy I bogeyed, I screwed up. I'm sorry. I'm

I love you for that. I love you for that. I love you for that. I love you for that. I love you for that. And that leads to foundational happiness. It just does.

real quick because I know you have to run. I'm curious, you and social media, do you use anything? Do you have a burner accounts that say, but Tommy, he's actually awesome. Like, how do you, how do you roll with social? Like, which, you know, I started leaning and I started, I started Instagram, just, I think about a year ago. Okay. And, you know, I've been flirting with the idea for years. Okay. Down with me as I was going like, I

the rabbit hole of that conversation. I've got three kids, man. I've got a family. It's like they're, you know, they offer me, they always come, come on, play fantasy football. I'm like, I don't need another hobby. I got, I really don't like it. And I want to do it. And the whole Instagram thing, I was like, I'm afraid I'm going to like it a lot. And I'm going to do it too much. So I came out and I remember my opening, I said, look,

monologue, guys. Yes, it's a one-way street. I don't want to dive into late night looking at a comment on every single thing I said, because I'll feel it. And I want to engage in it and give back the conversation. So I'm curious about where I have the conversation. Nice work, Dustin. Do you find yourself following certain people or certain accounts and getting a little bit of escapism value from it?

A little bit. Or is it mainly, I'm in the mood to say something, and I'm gonna just say it, and it's about a log in, I'm out. It's mainly, I'm in the mood to share something, hey, this is a pulse I'm feeling out there in the world right now, this is a pulse I'm feeling in America or something that's going on in my life, like share this. I will then re-engage with certain people that I will.

follow or listen to and check in with. But but but I don't have it. I'm not ready to have that in order. I know if I ever will be to have that on my proverbial good morning. Now let me go sit down with my IG world because like I said, I got three kids and wife and a job and I like my own solitude and I'd rather I'd rather as I can live here as I can October 20th. Yep. That's the date.

Today, green lights. And that's the idea, man. Let's how can we create more than for ourselves and others? As you said, be selfish and selfless at the same time. Those are not contradictions. What we can make the choices that are best for the eye, that are also best for the we.

The second you get best for the eye, your ability to be a champion of we exponentially grows. Boom. Boom. And where are we misinformed on that? I don't know where along the way people misinformed. There's so many. Listen.

This is why communication, videos, books, monologues, or somebody like me that posts and spends eight hours engaging. Like this is why we need all different versions. One sentence in that book can change the way someone looks at it. Vayner Nation, I know that I have a lot of pride in this. A lot of my friends are just people that have randomly emailed me. The book PR community very much knows this has been a show that

is a substantial driver. And it's because you're curious. And I think if you re-listen the first 10 minutes, clearly if you're getting value out of me, I have some serious confidence that you're going to get value out of this book. So green lights, make sure you pick it up. Makane, thank you so fucking much for being on the show. I'm Joe DeGaille for the next time, bud.