"Trained As A Spy At 10” - Sex Trafficking Survivor Anneke Lucas NAMES Her Billionaire Abusers | PBD Podcast | Ep. 511

I want to start off by saying this is a very disturbing, uncomfortable interview to watch. If you're watching this with your kids, they're 12, 10, 14 years old. This is not the one for them to watch. This is 18 and above. If later on you feel comfortable as a parent to have them watch it, do it. You're going to see every emotion in here. There was extreme tension.

in certain moments, tears, laughter, tension, debate. I had to bring my booker in, Tony, because some of the accusations that were made to clarify certain areas, and Tony came in here. She shared some names, she's never shared before. Two of the names that she was a sex worker for, I don't, you can't even say sex workers, at 10 years old, human trafficking, one of them she claims,

who was a powerful billionaire, you know the name, that she would go to the Bilderberg event party in Europe and she had abusers who had sex with her at 9, 10, 11 years old and she would come back and report these stories back to the billionaire. What that information was used for, you know, obviously your imagination can take it to wherever you want to take it.

Uh, the reason why I wanted to have this conversation is not, it's not, this is not a podcast you want to sit there. I can't wait to watch this one here, but I think we have to because, you know, with the 359,000 missing children in America as of 2022 according to the FBI, what else do we need to do? Just sit around and not talk about it. No, no, no, no. You know what? It's just too disturbing to watch. It's just too disturbing to watch. Someone's kid is missing. Do we not bring light to it? Do we not address it? I just feel it's our responsibility and every once in a while,

I do these because I think it's our responsibility to bring attention to it. And many of the positions that she took and claims she made, multiple were prime ministers, multiple were billionaires. These are her claims. And while we're going through it, she was pushed back on some of the claims, but I advise you to go during due diligence, you're on research.

While you're going through this, at the same time, while it's not easy to talk about these types of stories, it takes a lot of courage to talk about it. I also don't want to sit there and claim everyone's guilty. I believe innocent until proven guilty, but I believe go to your research and your own due diligence on the names that she's dropping.

And that'll help you understand for yourself as well, especially if you're somebody that's interested in this specific issue as much as I am. I do think it's something that we need to bring more attention to. Having said that, enjoy this uncomfortable interview that I had with Anika Lucas. They wanted to control everybody.

Did you ever meet him? Meet him. Oh, yeah. What was he like? Or horrendous. Unpack it. He loved being behind the scenes, creating this elite sex slave, who was going to make him millions. It's $150 billion in your industry. I know, no. This is a global elite network with specific people in it, and they're not all friends. So there can be infighting happening as well.

Mind control training at nine years old. Yeah. Why did they take you there? Um, a ritual. Politically related or business? No, celebrity. You've never talked about this.

I've never said his name. I can't just flop these names out. I have to... I have... It gives me a person we would know? Definitely. You would know the name. Alive or dead. I didn't think that this was going to be the kind of conversation we were going to have. So the audience doesn't think I'm cornering you. You told Tony that you wanted to name names. I would... No, I didn't say that at all. Come on, Tony.

So when you told me you said she said she wanted a name that she's never named before. Alright, I'll tell you something. I was trained as a spy. That week I was sleeping with men and then I would go report on their weaknesses or their sexual preferences. I'm not saying.

Did you ever think you would make it? I feel I'm something so I can take sweet victory I know this life meant for me Why would you bet on Goliath when we got bet David? Now you came in giving values contagious this world of entrepreneurs

Okay, so today's story will be very uncomfortable to listen to, but it's a story that we all must be willing to have the courage and the toughness to listen to. Some stories you just leave like, man, I have so many things going on in my life. I don't want to hear a story like this, but it's happening. In America, according to the FBI, there are 359,094 entries for missing children as of 2022. We don't hear a lot about it.

You know, when we had George Floyd incident, everything shut down. Every mainstream media talked about it. Two billion dollars of damages, local business owners. It had to be on all of our minds. But here's a question for you. 359,000 children missing. Tell me what's more important than talking about something like that. No one wants to talk about it. Why? It's uncomfortable. The audience doesn't want to hear this story. Come on, just leave it alone. Let's talk about politics and Trump and economy and all this other stuff.

We chose to talk about it. And today's guest is a brave woman who has been talking about this for the last 11 years. Some of you may have heard her story before. Some of you may have not. There are certain things she's going to say today she's never said before. And that takes a lot of courage to take. But I'm looking forward to having this conversation with Anika Lucas. Thank you so much for being here with us on the podcast. My pleasure.

So, um, I go through the story and for a person that reads this, you think it's a movie. You don't think it's real when it says traffic as a young child at six years old, sold by her own mother to Belgian pedophile rank and you counted the number of hours you were raped that I saw and used your words. When you say this, six hours a week, 1,716 hours before the age of 12, I listened to that. I'm like, that is.

unbelievable to hear someone go through it, but that's your life. So if you don't mind, and I know this is not easy to do, if you don't mind taking a few minutes and sharing with the audience, your story, and it will take it from now. A few minutes. We'll be together for two hours, but the story. Okay. Yes. Essentially, my mother was

mentally ill, I guess. She never diagnosed and she was single at first and I was abused very early on. She was married when I was three and then first this couple came into our lives. The woman was the cleaning lady and

She and her husband would take me on outings when I was five. That started. And so that went on for a whole year. I didn't like them. I never wanted to go. I had to. My mother had my brother then. And after a year, they took me. Well, they took me to an event. And it was immediately extreme. It was in a castle. It was horrific.

And my mother, my mother, I tried to tell her that bad things had happened. You know, I didn't have the language obviously. It was just around my sixth birthday. And my mother then took over from these pimps. She then started driving me to locations. She would receive a call. She would drive me. I found out later that she was paid.

And these were in Belgium for three years. I was just trafficked in Belgium. And the head of that, I call it the network in Belgium was the Minister of National Defence at the time, Paul van de Munoz. And he used the children to get new people in and also to give them sometimes to really, you know, through blackmail.

He said he was the national defense. He became a two-time prime minister later on, right? Yeah. Yeah. So this is before he serves as a prime minister. It might have been after also. He served twice. So yeah, I'm not sure. Could have been before and after. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, when this is happening to you, you know who he is or you don't know who he is. No, I didn't know anybody at the moment. At that time, I didn't know who anybody was. I had no idea.

How did you learn about who they were afterwards? In my adult life. How, though? Well, they were very easy to find. Most of them were very easy to find. I would just, you know, if I remembered a name and just started remembering people, thanks to Google, really, just starting to Google and finding them very easily. Just the faces you would recognize or what was the method?

Yeah, yeah. Looking for their positions, I would know whatever I had, I would type that in, and usually they would come up right away. That was the surprise, that was the big surprise, really, that I had no idea that they were this prominent when I was a child.

And when, when, when this is happening to you at the time, you, they don't have a name. They're not coming to you with a name. You don't know who. Well, him. I called him Polo Polo, but his name is Paul, but there's other children that named him something else. Um, so I called him Polo and then some people, I knew their first name. Um, but yes, they're very visible. Some I've found out from quite a few perpetrators when they die because then they're in the newspaper and I suddenly see their picture.

So how many of them you knew about when they were alive? You said, that's this person. That's that person when they were alive. Well, actually, I've recognized quite a few when they died. And that's not only, I think, because I may have remembered certain things, but I may have not remembered who they were specifically to keep myself safe in some strange way that the healing that then followed, I just understood that it wouldn't have been safe.

I wouldn't have been able to keep myself safe, if that makes sense, because the healing process is so involved and it does. There are certain perpetrators I was very attached to emotionally. I know that may be very hard to understand and believe, but I was very attached emotionally to some of these which were like fathers

What was your relationship with your father? My biological father, I didn't meet until much later. I never met him. How old were you the first time you met him? Eighteen. So he didn't recognize me. And then my stepfather was the man who closed his eyes to all my mother's activities. And they

So my brother is his, and I think the reason my brother wasn't trafficked was maybe because he was clearly more interested in my brother. So he just really closed his eyes. But I did try to tell him, and I write that in my book, by the way, I did try to tell him, and he didn't believe me when I was a child. So my mother would, he was away a lot. He was a cameraman. He was traveling a lot. But when he was there, she would literally get out of their bed.

And then I would be ready in my bed. And then she would let the car drive down, just let it without turning on the engine, just to be quiet. And then at the bottom of the driveway, she would start the motor. And she would drive me to events. And then she would pick me up around dawn. That was how it usually worked.

And he was asleep in bed and, you know, I thought later, maybe he thought she was having a fair, she was doing that also, but he never wondered. And she made up stories also about what had happened to me. For example,

At one point she started saying that I was a real tomboy and then I was climbing in trees, which I never did and I was not a tomboy, but She was saying that because I was covered in in blues in bruises and so that explained it and then he accepted whatever she said When your mom is dropping you off or picking you up the first time this happened

How was she explaining to you like, are you pleading and saying, Mom, please don't take me anymore to a place like this? I don't want to go there. And if you said that, what did she tell you? Well, I think my mother's a psychopath that she really had one victim. That was me. So I was an extension that deserved all her wrath. So I have said I wasn't going to go and she dragged me by my hair.

One time but most of the time because I was the her little helper I was trying to please her more than anything and then My mother was extremely sadistic But did you ever plead and say mom, please don't take me today, please don't take me today I said I I I one said I'm not going and what she tell you she dragged me by my hair She would get very anxious before we left but

Of course I was going to go. I mean, you understand children and you have children. Children are going to do whatever. You know, I was doing everything to please her. I was trying. She was the person I was most attached to. So I was trying to tell myself that she loved me because you have to know that you're loved as a child. And so I was trying to please her as much as possible. So most of the time I wasn't going to do anything against her. But there was another element is that

With my mother, because she never saw me, she just saw whatever she saw was an extension, something that just had nothing to do with me, because she didn't see me at all. I was receiving more reflection of things that were true about me by these pedophiles in the network, frankly, that were seeing intelligence or they were seeing beauty. And so at times, it was actually more comfortable

It was better to be in the network than to be with my mother. Because that constant projection of hers was very difficult to live with. So this entire time when she's dropping you off and picking you up, you're not controlled. Like, you know, you see it in the movies where the owner has you in a room upstairs and people come in and out and they handle their business and you're away from mom and dad. That's not the case.

This is mom is dropping you often coming and picking you up at dawn. Yes. So it was different in that way that my mother was not in the network herself, although she wanted to. She looked up to these people. She would have done anything to belong. But because I think of particular way that her mental illness showed, she was almost too enthusiastic. She would not have been able to keep the secret. So she didn't get in. But it was as if she was envious that I was

It was if she was sending me in her stead that she would have wanted that kind of sexual attention. That's really what she wanted all the time, the sexual attention. How was her relationship with her mom and dad? She was born in 39 before the war. Her mother died when she was five, just after the war.

So her father, whom I did know, he was inappropriate. And he did one thing to me that was inappropriate. So her father, your grandfather. So she grew up in a town in Belgium during the war, in her early years, during the war, and then lost her mother at a very early age. And I can only assume that there was sexual abuse happening because that's how she always acted.

I have gone through more than 30 years of healing from sexual abuse, all kinds of sexual abuse. And so that journey of healing, which is really

you know, what makes me aware of these things. That's, you know, she acted like someone who was sexually abused and never understood that she was more than that. You know, when you get as a child, there's something that happens when you're a child and you're innocent and you're the light of God and you are, you are innocent and your innocence is your true self. That's your, that's who you are. That's your light. And when you are sexually abused,

It's like you feel that you've lost that innocence and that you can never have it back. There's the trauma of sexual abuse is such that, you know, trauma means you're going to hope you wish that it was yesterday. If there's a big loss, you just want it to be the day before when this didn't happen yet. You just want to go back.

With sexual abuse, it's like they steal your light. They steal your life. They steal your innocence. And you feel that you've lost it because you're a child and you don't know that you don't deserve this because you assume that you did. And then there are the children that can never get back to that light.

And the network and the way that the network operates is all to keep you in the dark. And it's run by people that are not in touch with themselves on that pure level, on that level of, I am light. I am a child of God. And when that's lost, when the abuse gives this message that I am, I have to put out sexually in order to be loved.

then you get this message, then that's how you get validated. That's how you want your attention. And my mother acted like that, like someone who had no connection to herself and who was just constantly trying to get sexual validation from all men.

So you and your mother, from six years old, till what age was it? 11. 11 years old. This is happening when you're saying six hours a week. That's the specific number you gave. I gave that specific number, but obviously it's an approximation. It wasn't every week. And sometimes it wasn't every week, but other times I was gone for the summer of 1972. I was gone two months.

from home. I wasn't home at all. Where were you at? Were you with the traffickers? I was with the traffickers. I was the first. The first month? No. The first month I was in the United States being trafficked in the United States by a powerful billionaire who was basically triaging me and training me in his homes. Who is this? I'm not saying who that is yet. I have to be careful what I say. I can't just

Flop these names, huh? I have to. I have to be a person we would know. Definitely. You would know the name. Alive or dead. Dead.

He was taking me here, I was in the United States, so I was either in his homes, three of his homes I spent time in, or I was in the room in the daytime sometimes, in a bedroom, or I was even at a family, as near DC for a week, basically parked in a family, a nice family that treated me well, probably a satanic family, and that were very happy to do a favor for this man.

I was, after that, was taken to Germany and I was there for another month in a facility in Heidelberg for what was my mind control training. And this is 1972 when I was nine years old. Mind control training at nine years old. Yeah. Why did they take you there? When I met this billionaire, so in 1972, you had the Bilderberg meeting that happened in Belgium.

So for that event, Paul van Boonnance made sure that he probably did many things around there, but basically to please this powerful American that was there for the Bilderberg meeting, he staged a ritual. And so why would they need to train you though?

The mind control training, he had plans for me. And all right, I can say something. He had me in his homes and everything to get me used to the life of the elite so that I would know how to eat, so that I would recognize good clothes, so that I would be comfortable in these environments.

Alongside that we went to one of the islands on the northeastern coast of the United States and saw there and this was a Rothschild who was there Rothschild a Rothschild. Yeah, and is this who you're talking about? Yeah, so I'm saying we were with Evelyn the Rothschild for one day only and

It was clear that this billionaire who you would think is just as powerful as this Rothschild was not as powerful in the network as he was. And he was asking for permission to make the star that he wanted to make of me. Well, he didn't want to make me into a star. He wanted to make me into an elite sex slave where I would become

famous in France and then with that role, I would attract the most powerful men in the world and I would be able to spy on them for him and so forth. Is that David Rockefeller? I'm not saying. I'm not saying. I can't say this. All right.

On the reason I say that is because I pulled up the list from 2012 attendees and I went through all the guests on the right that says US from the Bilderberg meeting. Okay. Rob, if you go a little bit lower and zoom in and you put US, uh, yeah, right there. We'll see the names that shows. I know this is. Excuse me a minute. Oh, I can't lie, but um,

And it's scary. Yeah, it might as well. Okay, there you go. You never talked about this. I've never said his name. You know, you again, you hear these stories.

And you wonder, you know, there's, there's no way these people are capable of doing something like that. At what point did you know it was him? When he died. 2017. Yeah. So you didn't know till 2017. But I knew a lot, but I didn't know it was him. So how did you know it was him when he died in 2017? Because that was just seven years ago. Immediately, immediately, I knew immediately I just saw his face. And first of all, I saw his face and then immediately a lot of other memories came back with him.

How much time did you spend with them?

Well, I spent quite a lot of time with him in the beginning. So from 72 to 73, this was this training. So I spent quite a lot of time with him in the US in that first month in July of 1972 and spent time in his estate in Westchester and also in his home in New York City and also in his home in Maine. And on the way to Maine on his sailboat,

And we stopped off at the Rothschild who had to give his permission for the persona that he wanted to make out of me. And then Rothschild invited me into the family. And I gave my, I certainly, I had not been treated very well up until then. So suddenly I get a very nice invitation. I feel

You know, even this training, even though there was a lot of sex training also, just let's not make any mistakes here. This is not like I was just being suddenly being treated really well. I was being trained sexually as well, but it was the best I'd ever seen in my life at age nine. And when I was invited, I... Many treatment of elites like lifestyle wealth, is that what do you mean by treatment?

No, in the first three years in the network, by Paul van de Munnance, I was treated like absolute piece of dirt. What does that mean?

I was the lowest of the low. He always treated me like, you know, he wasn't worth the time for him to even like sort of like heaven. I don't know. chewing gum on his soul or something, you know, and he just had to pull it off and just just resented having to spend any time on me, but he was selling me all over. Or whatever he was doing, he was using me for blackmail for people that were supposedly new, or he was giving me to depraved aristocrats.

But he didn't want to, you know, he, I was treated most of the time I was treated like I was absolute piece of dirt. Like I had no value at all. Did he himself sexually abuse you or no, Paul? He beat me up. But not sexually abused. I did not get sexually abused by him. He was extremely sadistic. So he did not sexually abuse me. He abused other children, though. And I

I don't remember being sexually abused by him.

But he and a few others that were in charge there just really would treat me like the lowest of the low. So I was used to sort of knowing that it was them, it was their fault. I knew that they treated me that way, but I know that I'm human. So I didn't really fully take it seriously. And I was kind of playing the game to survive, playing this game of whatever they needed me to do. I was doing it.

And then in 1972, suddenly three years later, I got treated as very special. And this treatment had a lot to do with the excitement that David Rockefeller felt over the fact that he loved being behind the scenes, creating this slave, this elite sex slave, who was going to make him millions. And I was already sold in the first year.

in that year, in that year, till I, till I, you know, I gave my will to the Rothschild. And he asked specifically, you know, he asked, will you be part of the family? And I said, yes. And he asked me to say, I will.

give my will. And a year later, I did not give my will anymore. And that's why I'm here that I got. Yeah. Why would Rockefeller do that if he's got billions at the time? That's a very powerful family. He was a pot. He was a pedophile, first of all, and these families. And David or more David, the Rachael, I don't think was a pedophile.

He was more powerful, but he was not a pedophile. David Rockefeller was a pedophile. There's a lot of survivors. I work with survivors. There are a lot of survivors out there of David Rockefeller, but I saw him in a certain light and I've met one other person. Now that we're named David Rockefeller, I can tell you that the place where I was taken in Germany, in Heidelberg, the doctor that was in charge there, Hans Harmsen,

I have met another survivor that was also a special project of David Rockefeller and Hans Harmsen who was the doctor in charge there. She was there too as a special project of him and she also came across Hans Harmsen. Harmsen? Hans Harmsen. H-A-R-M-S-C-N. Yes. There you go. There you go.

And who was he? He was, I think, that he was in charge of the special project of David Rockefeller for the mind control training. And I know one other survivor who went through similar experiences as myself later on. Did you ever meet him? Meet him. Oh, yeah. What was he like? Or horrendous. Unpack it.

Okay. The way that you're trained in mind control training, it's based on torture.

Um, what I was used to doing as a child sex slave was to please men in some way or other to get on their wavelength so that they wouldn't harm me so that I could survive with him. I never got anywhere. I never got through it at all. Most of these pedophiles you could get through in some way. There's some way in which, you know, I could sense intuitively how

what I needed to do to please them. So with him, there was nothing that I could do to get through to him. It was just completely mean and vicious. And one thing that he would do is I was forced to watch certain things, to learn.

about men's behavior, whether it was, you know, one, it was their weakness or their sexual preferences or their, their sexual, um, diversions, perversions, their sexual perversion. So we're not talking about regular sexual, we're talking about sexual perversions to recognize those. And so I was watching was forced to watch the films. And first I would

See the man in the behavior, just his face and then seeing in the behavior, different things. And then I would need to guess based on a face what this person would do. And if I got it wrong, he, one thing that he did is he would just strangle me until I have fainted. And in the fainting, he would. Yeah, he would. Yeah. And in the fainting, he liked to strangle. And in the fainting,

I would realize after a while that in these near-death experiences that my intuition was sharpening. And so it was punishment for not giving the right answer, but it was also part of the training to be able to get more intuitive and sense things without having to use your reason. And one thing he did was he would

Strangle me and first he would say, what does this mean? And he would point at his own face and then he would strangle me. And so his face to me means being strangled or it did.

That's how the programmation works. So when I actually came across his photo, I felt like I was dying and it took a long time and I do a lot of yoga and meditation and I had to really just go into the breathing and really, really just...

Work through that programmation that seeing his face means you're going to die from strangulation. You're going to asphyxiate. He wanted you to know that. That is how programmation works in the network.

that you know it and your body has a reaction and also it is a way to get you from A to whatever they need you to go. So if this prompt means that

And that was in Heidelberg. He wasn't there all the time. Most of the time there were three handlers that were doing this. If you go back to that, Rob, that says right there, he was a bureaucrat in the Nazi Germany. He was responsible for proving eugenic sterilization performed on the disabled. He supported forced sterilization of the mentally handicapped

and helped to carry them out to Protestant intermission institutions for which he was responsible. David Rockefeller also was a eugenicist. So when you're with David Rockefeller, are you in their state? Are you in their house? Are you around their family? And if you are, who is... Not around their family, no. But I was around... I was in three of his estates, as I said, and I was around his staff.

Did their staff know what was going on with you or no? I was in bed with him. And they acted like nothing was happening. You were in bed with him. And the staff knew and was there and they were just acting like that was all normal. I went shopping on Madison Avenue with him. He bought me some dresses and some clothes. And everybody you can imagine, everybody's so happy to see him. So happy to serve him.

You don't think they're going to think it's weird that a young girl is with a very powerful billionaire? I don't think today people would think that was weird because there's such a great desire to please those people. But this is 1972. Nobody thought anything. I could have been taken anywhere out in the open. A lot of it was out in the open and nobody would have thought a single thing.

These people were just so happy to serve him. He told his staff that I was his niece from Paris. Who cares? While they're seeing you in bed with them. Well, he didn't say it then, but they did see it, but they acted like nothing was happening. I don't know if they were also controlled or if they were the right kind of personality. I don't know.

But I saw a woman and a butler, a woman and a man, only those two. And that was in the house in New York. How did they treat you? Very nice. They were good to you. Very. How was he to you?

Well, most of the time he was extremely, he had this excitement. So a pedophile gets excited around children. And so there's a way in which they can start to feel alive when they're with children, because it's their own little child that maybe is dead inside of them that's just starting to come to life. And because they relate to children in that way, they see

They're trying to revive their own deadness, which is dead from abuse or whatever it is. They're trying to revive something. So they're seeing children at a certain age, usually the age that they were abused.

And he was excited, and he was excited not only of being around me, and of course, a child is also not somebody who's going to point out your flaws, right? A real partner will point your flaws to your flaws. And he had a slave who was already a child slave who was thinking the world of him, and that made him feel really good.

He was excited and he was also excited at the idea of what he was making me into because this persona that he was creating that I was supposed to be a French singer, actress, and

He was excited to be the secret man-owner behind that persona. And I was sold during that year already when I was still supposedly in training to become that persona. I was already probably sold. I mean, I was given to a German Chancellor at the time.

And that was Code Kisinger, who I was driven to Germany. So the Belgians were the Belgian handlers who would drive me to Germany. And then I would spend time with Code Kisinger, who would take me to like little hotels. And again, no questions asked. Yeah, him.

Before he became a chancellor, he served as a minister, president of 1958, 66, president of federal council, 96. He was a chairman of Christian Democratic Union from 67 to 71. And David introduced you to him. How did you introduce me? I was just taken there. You were just taken. Child sex slave is not introduced. You know, it doesn't happen that way. But the Belgian handlers would take me. They would drop me off on the side of the road. And then he would pick me up and then I would get in a car with him.

And then he would drive me and then we would arrive. And again, I was trained so I knew how not to draw attention to myself, but also he taught me to speak German. He was very enamored and he might have been paying.

So I'm looking at this, you know, when we're looking at some research, common methods used by traffickers, false promises, offer an employment, educational romantic relationships to isolation. This is different separating victims from family and friends to increase dependency. Three threats and violence using physical harm or threats against the victim or their loved ones for debt bondage, creating a sense of indebtedness that the victim feels obligated to repay.

psychological manipulation, employing tactics like gaslighting to control the victim's perception of reality. Yes, but you see, when you're talking about the network, which I again, you know, you have David Rockefeller, you have the Rothschilds, you have the Belgians who are, you know, connecting to that network. We're talking about a global

network of people of a combination of psychopaths and pedophile and you know far gone pedophiles that are Satanists and they They sell their soul to to Satan and they

one control. They have the resources. A lot of the children that are born into these families are abused from the beginning and are in mind control as well. They are also tortured because what they do other than the sort of like normal kind of trafficking is that you get in and either you are

what I was in the beginning, like your life means nothing and you could be, you could be killed anytime. That was the first three years. But then once he took notice of me, and which was in a very strange circumstance, but he is David Rockefeller. Once he took notice of me and he was going to then use me for his purposes, then I would have been part of the, what I called a global network.

where I would have been completely controlled as a star. That's where the mind control comes in and then, you know, using my natural talents and abilities and blood to create a person that is completely in their control while they have been created the same way, you know? And all these people are crazy. That is, see, this is the

Everything goes into the PR of presenting an image that is really acceptable. And then everything goes into the PR of, you know, it's not as if David Rockefeller didn't have access to the press. So what these people were part of this murderous network, they

use their resources to control their image. And that is, of course, that someone like me should never have too much reach. And what we don't understand is that it is one network. And of course, if they're friends, they're connected a lot through blackmail.

Because the Satanists, there's what I call sincere Satanists who really sell their soul to Satan and they have rituals and there are sacrifices being made. And then there are those that just want to belong to the club of power.

And, you know, and then it depends in the network in Belgium. Well, it depends if someone gets sucked in, you know, you have your integrity and you have your ideals and you start out. And then what happens, you know, if you get into that club, you will be asked to make choices and either it's power and you stay with the club or it's

Your integrity means that you cannot do this anymore. You cannot lie in the beginning. It's to just like be quiet about what you see having to do with sexual abuse usually. And then as it goes on, it becomes, you know, you get involved. You have to, you're participating. And of course, it's not everybody that is going to be manipulable as a pedophile because not everybody is going to rape a child.

Um, but those who don't, they are, they know and they keep quiet about it. So that's how it works. And, um, how long were you with David Rockefeller one month? Or did you see him again after that? I did see him again after that. I saw him again after the training and I saw him again, especially, um, a year later in April, I saw him 73 or 70, 72.

73 now, April of 73. I saw him in Italy.

And that's where I saw the most people that I recognized later. There were actually a lot of singers there. There were a lot of people that were in the entertainment industry. And this was my coming out. I was singing. I performed several songs. So there was some Jacques Brel songs because he's Belgian. Like myself. That's what I sang.

And then so to bleah too, it's a beautiful, amazing song. It's a beautiful song. It's my favorite. And by the way, that song was sang by...

I think Julio Iglesias, I think Stang, they converted it in English. The meaning of the song is actually very interesting. The first time he sang that song on TV, he died at a very young age. He died rather young, yeah, but he was alive then, and it was a popular song. Was he there at the event or no? No, no. I never saw Jacques Braille, but I was singing the song and what I had been trained by a famous

French composer, singer, and he had showed me the choreography. Now, I didn't fully understand what was happening, but this choreography, I was sexualizing every line of that song. So you have the line, for example, I remember,

So there's a line about the old volcano that nevertheless still spouts fire. And that, for that, I remember I had to go sit on an old man's lap and I had to look down on his genitals, because that's the old volcano that spouts fire, that still spouts fire. In front of everybody? That was, yeah, that was the audience, yeah. And this is an audience of people that were in the sphere of Rockefeller, obviously, but this is like a satanic gathering, I mean,

These were people that were in this club. And whatever, for whatever reason, they wanted to be there, whether it was for fame or whatever, you know. When you're doing that, are they laughing? Or are they just like, oh, it's this great performance? Laughing? No, no, laughing. Everybody laughs at the sex jokes of the nine-year-old. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're nine years old at the time. Yeah.

Okay. And who's there? Some of the names that you're saying, who's there at this? Well, okay. I know you really want to hear names and I really don't like to focus so much on the names, but Eddie Arnold was an American perpetrator. That was there. And Eddie Arnold was, yeah. So Eddie Arnold was somebody who really, really, really wanted to belong to the club.

And I don't know how people got in there. Some of them are coming in through masonry. Some of them are coming in in other ways because they get famous and then they get lured in. But he just really wanted to belong. Now, when you say belong to the club, meaning just to be there. Power. Power. But not abusing kids. You're not. No, he abused me. I mean, yeah, yeah, he abused me.

that week. So there was an entire week. And I was basically given to a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of men there. Meanwhile, horrible things were happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, lots of horrible, horrible things were happening. There were rituals happening. It was like the only thing I can, the only thing I can compare it to is maybe like, I think of a Dionysian orgy.

Have you ever read the books of Mary Renault? Mary Renault? Okay. She has described once, and I don't even remember which book, but she described a Dionysian origin. It was like I was back there. It goes on for days and days and... If I look online, there's literally nothing online about accusations about Ariana.

Can you say, you're not going to probably, I know a lot of survivors of David Rockefeller, but I don't think you're going to find any accusation online about David Rockefeller. It's all about cover up. It was very, very good. All the investment, all the money goes, I mean, not all the money, but it goes a lot to the image.

You gave a couple of the names to me earlier. I don't want to say it until you're comfortable. One of the names was a, you know, another famous politician from the West. Yeah. How did you meet him? He was also there that week. He was also there that week. Yeah. And what was the interaction with you? Scary.

Was his wife also involved or just him? I didn't see his wife or I don't know. I didn't see anybody else, but him. Well, you vividly remember him. And when did you know it was him later on? Because at the time, you're nine, 10 years old. Yeah, again, you know, this came much, much later. I don't remember exactly when I remember when I realized that it was him. You don't remember when he came to you later that it was Pierre? No. Justin Trudeau's father, right? Yes. Yes.

And I mean, you have to you've never mentioned his name before, right? Trudeau. What was that relationship like or the experience like? Was it a one day thing? Was it a repetitive that happened? All right, I'll tell you something.

David Rockefeller had me trained as a spy. So I was a sex slave, of course, and I was an elite sex slave now. And I was trained as a spy through the mind control training. And so that week I was sleeping with men and then I would go report on their weaknesses or their sexual preferences to David Rockefeller. Why did he need that information? Is that how to blackmail and use it later on in negotiation?

for example, or if he knows what they want, then you can give it to them sexually. So, about Trudeau, I said that I could never please him as long as I was alive. That's how scary that was. You could never please him? If I was alive.

We're true, though. What does that mean? It means that he couldn't kill me because at that point, I was not a throwaway child. And he, um, he scared me enough so that I then tell Rockefeller that that's what he wants a child to kill. Then you understand that the next time

He can, if he wants to use that, he can use it. He can use that information. Rockefeller. So how many of these celebrities did abuse you during that specific event that you were at for you to come back and report to David? Oh, God, I don't even remember.

I was very busy. And at that time, and, you know, I want to specify that when I was in Belgium, I always had a distance from the perpetrators. And I always knew that they were wrong and that I, you know, was a human being and that they even though they treated me like nothing, that I actually, you know, had wasn't worth being treated that way. I knew that. When I was mind control trained,

which is based on science, you know, it's horrendous science from, you know, probably related to some of the experiments that were done in the camps. And I know it was extremely when I went into the mind control training, there was no guessing. There was no experimentation. It was just done very precisely to get the result that they wanted so that I'm a high functioning machine for their purposes.

And I did not at that time have the distance to understand that I didn't want that anymore. I thought now at age nine, I believed that I was this persona and that I was doing this. I didn't want to call it abuse. Does that make sense to you?

Yeah, I mean, you become immune to it. It's like a mobster that kills somebody so many times. If you watch an interview with Richard Kuklinski, I think Richard, what's his last name, Rob? I think I'm saying it right. Iceman. And you see him in interviews when he's killing people, it's no longer a

Well, that's the network, you know, in the network. This happens. And you know, when you go to any gang, you have these little kids that get pulled in and it's either kill or die. Sure. And then so they get pulled in that way. And it's the same in the network, you know, with violence and pedophilia. But let me, let me stay on this with you here. So you, you then gave me a name. You said a woman, you didn't give me a name. You said a woman who would be seen as very innocent.

Because most of the time when we're thinking about this, you're thinking about man. Was this woman also at the same event? Yes. She would have to be in her 80s and 90s today. Politically related or business? No, celebrity. Celebrity that I told you, no one would believe. No one would believe it.

What? And this was in 73. That's 51 years. No, 70. Yeah, 50 years ago. Yeah. That nobody would believe. Nobody would believe today. No. And what? Such an icon. You know, this is it. We all have icons, right? We all have people that we look up to. And every icon that I had personally,

People I never saw in the network, because I was only there for five years, you have to understand, that's a short time. I work with people that were in much longer, that were born into it, that were in much longer. Every icon that I've had, almost every icon I have had to let go of. Because I found out from somebody that I'm working with, completely private healing work that we do together.

I really wish that we could talk more about the healing because I feel like, oh, yeah, I feel like we're talking a lot about names. And I really, the healing is so important. I think the reason that I can speak is because I've healed so much and

And I understand things that most people don't understand. And I like to speak about those things, like how that really works and everything in the mind. Because I was being trained to become like them. And then I chose not to.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, and by the way, I want to speak about that as well. And also your book as we're going through this, just trying to sit here and, you know, you and I were talking right where it's like most people don't want to talk about it. Everybody you've mentioned so far, I had a guy did an interview with and he started telling me all these weird stories. And I want to, I want to

I want to believe all the stories he's telling me because some of it is actual word when we use unbelievable. And the stories would get more and more and more exaggerated, but there was one pattern. Everybody he ever said anything about, they were all dead. So they couldn't defend the story, right?

They couldn't. I don't just go and tell stories. First of all, I mean, it's taken me most of my adult life to even be ready to speak that the tool case happened in 1996. I was encouraged to speak up then in 1998 when survivors of the same network that's in Belgium started to speak out that the tool case took eight years to go to trial.

And then they were left with Mark Dutu, his wife, and two others. Michelle Nihul was one of the defendants. Michelle Nihul, I saw in the network. He was there then too.

I was not going to speak out. I was not ready. I was afraid. I was afraid to speak out. And also, I knew that I wasn't ready. It's not something you want to talk about, first of all. I am a really good writer. I really wish that I could have written stories that would be interesting and well-written and it would be appreciated and I would be appreciated as a writer. I don't want to be talking about this stuff. I've accepted it because it feels

that the divine has wanted me here and with this and talking about it, and I am. But I'm not here for my ego. I get attacked a lot. I have to deal with a lot of stuff. I have to deal with a lot of miscomprehension, but also attacks. My book, supposed to come out in France more than a month ago, it's been blocked.

This translation of my book, it's been blocked. The publisher has not been in contact with me at all. I know that he received at least one male that was to discredit me, and I've probably received a lot more by now. But anyway, things happen all the time to stop me from speaking out. I'm not just telling stories. I've been so careful.

to wait until I was ready to say anything at all. Because I knew that if I'm going to get attacked and I'm going to go under, or if I'm going to get the love from people, I'm not going to be able to handle it. I'm going to need it. And I can't need power when I'm going to speak about these things. You understand? I don't think there's anything about

power here. I believe this happens. I believe this happens all the time. And I believe it was way more back in the days till today because back in the days. And by the way, today, it's still happening today. You see movies like Sound of Freedom, you see movies like Liam Neeson taking, taking two, taking three. Why do movies do so well? And Belgium is known for a lot of things. You know, Europe, there's some of these countries are known for a lot of things.

But to me, it's more... It's a worldwide, it's a global... Right, it's a 150 billion dollar year industry, I mean... No, no, this is a global elite network with specific people in it, and they're not all friends, so there can be infighting happening as well. But it is, you know, when I think of politics, it's like manipulated division. There's so much manipulation.

And it's all manipulated to keep people fighting each other so that we'll not look at the imposed division that is really between the top and the bottom. And when you start looking at the top, when you really, this is happening now. Who is the top?

Well, isn't Rockefeller the top? Isn't Rothschild the top? Isn't these people? Aren't those people the ones at the top? So I'm taking all the risks. Speaking about it, I don't want to say anything. I actually don't even like to say the names because the truth is it's not out of loyalty. It's rather that what is right to say when? You know, yes.

Saying names eventually is important because I was there. It's my story. I should be able to say. What do you think about Jane Fonda and Julie Andrews? What do you think about them? What do I, I don't, these are, I think of people like that as potentially, potentially just like what I was going to be, you see.

Got it. Potentially what I was going to be. Yes, I was supposed to be a celebrity in France. So I was going to be singing and I was going to be, I was trained as the sexy, um, you know, this sex, sex, um, sexual animal. So that's what was being sold. So that's how these

powerful men would then fall for me. And then I could maybe marry a president, you know, that's possible. Whatever it was, but it was really Rockefeller who was behind it. Okay. So when you're spending time with Rockefeller, you said you didn't know was him until he died in 2017. Yeah.

How is that possible? If you're going to these events and these parties and they're mentioning his name, don't they say David Rockefeller? But the name, I never heard the name. I never heard him as David. So they wouldn't say, please help me bring up the, you know, great David Rockefeller. If I saw his face, I probably would have seen it because the thing is, I would have not done well if I'd remembered him while I was alive, because he got so deep.

You understand, I was a child sex slave. I had not known any love. And this was the best I got at that time. And because of that, I would have maybe, there's a lot of parts in me that were very attached to him that loved him very much. It's part of the reason. Also, I wouldn't want to necessarily say the name. You know, it feels like

This loyal summer too, believe it or not. To who though? To him, to him because there's still parts inside of me that are also attached to him. And of course, I've learned a lot the more I heal. You see, you're talking like somebody who doesn't understand healing very well because the healing comes from

You know, how is it possible? It's very possible that I had vague memories of an American and some positive connection to that. But then there was also the memory of how I had met him, which was horrific. And I'd grieve for that. And I, you know, in the 90s, I was crying over that situation. And I haven't necessarily

healed completely. But at the moment what it is is that something begins to manifest and usually through the body because our trauma is stuck in the body. And then usually there's a period of sometimes it's just boom. When he died, it was immediate and I immediately got the memories and there was no question

But in the time that the memories come and you know, this is mind control is about dissociation. You know, it's you mind you get traumatized. Why? Because it dissociates you and then you don't know. You don't know what your other half is doing. So when we're talking about somebody who has an amazing front, when they're in their front persona, they don't know what they do in their shadow. That's in the shadow. So

The mind control is to create dissociation, to create parts that will go alters, that will go and do things, specific things. And that, of course, that stays when you're an adult.

you're dissociated, so you don't remember most of it or nothing. And it just comes back little by little. It's a very long and arduous process, and it requires tremendous courage to begin to open up to the possibility, because the first thing that comes when I had the first flashback of this, I was like, no, no, no. First of all, I thought, if that's true, I'm gonna kill myself, which was also programmed into me, but I struggled

So hard with like, this is not true. This is not who I am. I have an idea of myself, okay, doesn't work very well. You know, this identification as me and this family and it's okay. Things aren't really adding up. And at the same time, I never want this to be true. It's impossible. And without the due to case, I had no context either, but I was getting the flashbacks one after the other. The therapist I was with didn't want to know it.

She wasn't ready. She didn't want to hear it. She dismissed it.

some things I didn't even bring to her because I knew she wasn't going to be open to it. So first there was the due to case when I suddenly realized that all my flashbacks suddenly made sense. And then when things start to make sense, then suddenly all a bunch of other things start to make sense as well. Like for example, behaviors of mine or what I call cover memories. There are certain things that I know and I've always known them.

And I may have put them in a certain context, but suddenly if this is true, if this is what I'm pulling out of the shadows here, if that is true, then that also makes sense. And so it becomes a personal investigation into these memories. Where do you live right now? In New York? In New York. And how long have you been in the States? Since 1985.

And you don't know who David Rockefeller is till the day he died in 2017 in New York. The Rockefeller Center. The Rockefeller this. I told you I'd never heard the name Rockefeller.

Yes, of course it's possible. I'm a child sex slave. Why would I hear the name Rockefeller? Who says it? Nobody told me. Nobody said it. He didn't say it. He was David to me. Now, I heard it. I heard the name Rockefeller as an adult. Of course, there's songs about the Rockefellers, but that didn't mean anything. That name didn't ring a bell to me.

Yeah, but I mean, he's everywhere. He's picture you would see it. So it's not. I didn't think that this was going to be the kind of conversation we were going to have. Well, I never know what kind of a conversation I'm going to have. I simply go into conversations. I feel like I'm combative almost because I feel like... No, to me, it's not that. To me, the main thing is the following. I think this is a very serious issue.

I think it's such a serious issue that in America, I'm disappointed with our politicians that they don't spend enough time talking about this, nor does the mainstream media, and we've covered stories like this, God knows how many times. 359,000 missing children in 2022, according to the FBI. Never once do you hear these guys get up there and campaign and talk about this kind of stuff. It's just we're talking about all the other stuff. We had Dennis bastard who was the speaker of the house who was actually jailed for pedophilia. If what you're saying is true,

You're saying your loyalty is to Rockefeller. I'm not saying that. Obviously, I'm speaking about it and I've been speaking about it. My loyalty is obviously not with the abusers. It never was. It was in a very controlled situation. I was being prepared as a child to become part of them. I said no at age 10. Now that is something that

Some children do, but most don't. Most don't have the strength to do that. So no, my loyalty is essentially not with Rockefeller and it's not with any of those people. That's what I'm talking about. I'm only saying because you said that. You said I feel like a certain level of... Yes, because a part of me is still in touch. I'm repeating what you're saying. I'm not saying what I...

People talk about your parents a certain way. Maybe at some point, no matter what the reality, maybe at some point, you're going to feel some emotional strength. Yeah, but you're very comfortable not talking positively about your mom, but you're not very comfortable talking negatively. My mother never gave me as much as he did. And that's just happens to be the truth. He gave me reflections that I never received before. Did you ever reconnect with your mom or no? I forgave her before she died. Did you ever reconnect with her?

I forgave her before she died. I called her to forgive her before she died. When you called her, how much longer after she died that she died? A year after. Did you guys ever spend time together again or no? No, I did offer to come to see her when she was dying. So how old were you the last time you saw your mom? I don't remember, but it's a long time ago.

12 years old, 14 years old, 18 years old, 23 years old. Oh, no, no, no, I was an adult. I was in touch with her as an adult. And as these memories were coming back and I was working on these things little by little, it became clear that she was still the same person that, you know, there's this idea of what my mother was, which is what I needed to live with as a child to believe, you know, to survive. And then there's the reality.

And when the reality became clear, she was acting just exactly the same as she would have, she never changed. And really, there was no reflection there that I would have needed to emotionally grow. It was all false. It was all a projection. It had nothing to do with who I am. I was like, she needed me to be bland, either good and bland and ugly, or

evil and powerful. And the David Rockefeller saw, even Paul van de Buenance, saw things in me that my mother never did. He recognized things that were actually intricately mine. So I, for an emotional, for my emotional growth, I needed. You ever seen a movie at Red Sparrow?

No, I don't need to see those movies because there's a lot of movies and they take like little aspects of what happens in the network. Yeah.

Oh, I fully believe that network exists. I am not from the school of thought that this doesn't exist. This is a real thing. It's a have a lot of friends in the space who are former CIA guys, Delta guys, military guys that, you know, it's as real as it gets. It is happening. The only reason I asked this question for me is one of the recent stories that was, you know, all over the news in America is over Jeffrey Epstein and July Maxwell. Right.

When you hear the types of stories where billionaires give him 151 million dollars of consulting fee, who the hell gives you 151 million? Oh, he will help me on why taxes that much, maybe a million, maybe a half a million. I don't know anybody gets paid.

158 million dollars of consulting fee, Leon Black gives to Jeffrey Epstein. It's kind of weird, right? When people ask, that's the amount of money I give. That's very, I take that for granted. What people don't know is that I work with survivors again and several survivors, younger survivors that I know were trained by him. And so who?

Jeffrey. Jeffrey Epstein. He was a program. I thought you were talking David. Excuse me. Yeah. No, Jeffrey Epstein. And they were, um, they were trained by him some from when they were babies. So just the story that's out there now is that, you know, the teens and everything. And then we, we talk about, um,

Yeah, the abuse of teens, but really where he was training children of all ages. Jeffrey. Yeah. Did you ever meet him or Jelene? No. Never met him even in New York. No, I was out in 1974. I was out. Right. Yeah. And what did you do after you got out? What jobs did you do when you came to New York? What were you doing in the 80s, 85? Well, I want to talk a little bit about how I got out because normally you don't get out.

Okay, tell us, how did you get out? Well, first, the week that I was telling you in Italy, it wasn't Italy by Lake Como. And so where I was sleeping with all these men and where these horrific things were happening. Men and women, I think you said to me. There were men and women, absolutely. But I was sleeping with the men. I was not trained to be with women. I was only trained to as a sex slave for men. And

These horrible things were happening all week. And the end of the week, and this is April 30 is an important day for the Satanists. I'm not exactly sure why, but by the end of the week, I was going to have my big, I had already had the singing, you know, I'd already had the performance for everybody there.

And then I was going to have the ritual that was how I was going to be part of them. Another, I will, perhaps, you know, you have to say, I will. So you have to give your will to the network, to Satan. And so this was going to be my big entry. And I knew better. I didn't want to do it. I knew I didn't want to.

I didn't want to pay that price. I didn't want to pay the price that it would take to be part of it. And so I did everything that I needed to do because I had been trained in a way that I knew not to say no.

But after that, the next time I saw David Rockefeller, I rebelled. And then I was immediately immediately

um, tortured, um, was thrown in a cage in a dungeon and tortured for several days. Um, by him, but no, no, he, he never touched. He was always, uh, kept, he would for them. He would, he watched and he was there for some of it. He was verbally, uh, telling me that I was absolutely worthless. Um, but Hans Harmsen came too.

And, um, excuse me. And, um, basically, um, I was retrained for several days to make sure, you know, that I would feel the lowest of the low and then I was absolutely worthless and.

And anyway, I was, he told me that for sure, but also I was also tortured. And so he wasn't always there. He was there a few times, but he wasn't. And at the end of that couple of days, I was basically thrown back into the Belgian network.

where I was used another year. And then my book actually speaks about the year after I've already been rejected from what I call the inner circle afterwards. And I ended up, there's this gangster that took an interest in me and a year later, a year that became an extremely violent, vicious relationship. I'm 10.

He's 20. And a year later, he rescued me. And I had a near death experience. So you could say that I didn't survive. I had an extremely big near death experience. I wasn't supposed to survive, but I had to come back. And it was a very beautiful experience also.

My book is called Quest for Love. I was in these pedophilic relationships and everything looking for love in the midst of hell. But what happened in that near death experience was, and I was always, spirit was often present with me and there were

Like when I talk about these things, yes, I was tortured for days, you know, and it is true. So when you look at that from the outside, it is just gruesome and there's nothing else there. But spiritually, I felt often that there was help. Sometimes no, sometimes yes.

But there was help. There was support. Sometimes there was an insight that would come. Often I felt this benign presence. And when I had the near death experience, it was a very glorious experience. And I felt, finally, this incredible love. Do you believe in God?

Of course. I mean, that's everything. There is nothing with that. Who's got you? Are you a Christian? Are you a, are you a, how would you define that? The, um, the one, my teacher who showed up in the near death experience was by Mahamsa Yogananda. Now, by Mahamsa Yogananda started a autobiography of a yogi. Yeah.

If you want to show, there you go, that orange book. There you go. That's Paramahansa Yogananda. So Paramahansa Yogananda wrote, you know, one of the gurus of the path is Christ. And so,

It is not separate from Christianity. The teachings are the original Christianity combined with the original yoga, which has nothing to do with the physical yoga, but the meditation. So you have, you know, the prayer, which is like speaking to God and then the meditation, which I could call listening to God. And there's these specific meditation techniques that bring your energy back into your spine and brain that are meant to

help you to what happened, you know, in a near death experience is you transcend the physical, you leave the body, but you because you are not the body, you are consciousness, pure consciousness. And then in that experience, I experienced the expansion of the heart where I just felt that divine love. And then no, and then had these

Insights also then to help me know what to strive for when I was healing.

and that is to go back to return to the love of Christ. And that is why my message has so much to do with ending the division between people, between us, not judging other people, respecting everybody, getting along, but to look because I feel that this division is created from this network very specifically. You think the network should be held accountable?

Of course, and the people in it, and that the vision is caused from that place of these people that want to maintain the control specifically so that we won't look at them and that we won't look at this. What has happened to make it stop existing? Nothing. Right. What do you think you can do to help it? What am I doing?

Uh, talking about it, is that, is that kind of how you process that? Everything I do is to help it. I heal, I work with other people that have been through it. So the fact that I have had my plus 30 plus years of healing behind me, I can really, you know, when someone has been through something like that, it's very common that you cannot believe it. So when someone who's been through it and has been through the healing, when I was exactly what it is and can bring context to what is coming up because it makes no sense these things when they come up.

And that is what I do. And I write, and I'm a writer, I think of myself as a writer. So I try to reach people not about, it is not about the sensation, it is not about the names. Of course, yes, they have to be held accountable, eventually all of them, absolutely. I do trust in spiritual justice though.

not necessarily justice on earth. Most of these people died in their bed. They were never held accountable in life. But to me, my role is first is speaking up. This the revelation of this truth, which is a dark truth that I think we should know about. And the second part of my mission, I think has to do with the healing.

I developed a psychological healing modality, and it's for everyone. It is to look at power dynamics in the way that we all, you know, project power. Like, if I look up to you, you know, then I'm going to come from a place of

below in that projection. It is used as an entry into our own unresolved stuff. Like if I put you up, then you are an authority figure to me. And that means that I'm coming from a child place and I'm putting you in the position of a parent.

And beneath that upward projection, putting someone on a pedestal is fear. And so we go in that way to look at healing or whatever it is, unmet emotional needs, and vice versa when we look down on someone, when we judge someone, to first look at ourselves, like, what is this in me? Why do I need to feel powerful in that moment? Why do I need to think less of that person?

So it's not judging in terms of just saying what it is. Like, I don't mean, you know, a pedophile is a pedophile. That's not what I mean judging, you know, that there's judgment there. That is just what it is is discriminating or discerning. But I'm talking about an emotional, an emotional charge, which is exactly what I feel the network is using to create that division.

to keep judging each other and to keep thinking that it's other people like us. To me, I understand that, but you know.

I just put something, I tweeted something out earlier today because of what happened with Lake and Riley. And we were watching a video of Lake and Riley's family. And I don't know if you're following the story of Lake and Riley. Young, beautiful of a human being, beautiful spirit is going for a run at night while a Venezuelan gangster is looking for her. And she comes not looking for her, just looking for a girl.

And she sees her running, he sees her running, and he catches her wanting to rape her. And he starts hitting her with a rock over the head, and she's recording this while she's calling a cop, she's trying to escape. And her family, her stepfather, read a letter she wrote to her future husband, which is the most incredible story when you read this. It's tough to watch it without getting emotional.

I'm getting emotional now. For me, when I hear stories like this, you know, we're going through this right now in America, you're in New York, so New York's a mess right now, I tweeted this two hours before you and I went live. I said, is this too extreme of an idea? Any illegal immigrant who commits a crime in America should face five times the punishment of someone who is here legally, especially US citizen, and an automatic death penalty found guilty of rape, murder or, you know, drug, child trafficking.

I'm not, I have zero tolerance for this when it comes on to somebody taking advantage of a kid or any of it. We're both immigrants though, right? Well, yeah, for sure. We're both immigrants. So of course the immigrant story is always

Most immigrants don't want to come here or if they do, I mean, I love the United States, you know, I have had opportunities here that I studied here that I would have never been able to do that in Europe. So I love America. I love the spirit of America. I think that this is the place where things can change and this can change here. On the other hand, we have to be always so mindful.

There's always two sides to the same story because what's on the liberal side is being co-opted is the empathy, is the willingness to be open-minded towards others. I feel that this is being co-opted just as the toughness on the right is also being co-opted. I know on the right I've heard a lot of people being

you know, to save the children, you know, save the children. A lot of feeling and a lot of sympathy for the children, but I as an adult don't experience necessarily that same empathy, you see. I'm the grown up child from that experience. And I think you do.

And the reason why say that, you know, is there's a reason why you have tens of millions of views online because people empathize with you. And your book has got 223 reviews, five star. Why is it five star? Because there's a community that

you know, not necessarily understands the pain. Most people haven't gone through this, but sympathizes with somebody like you seen an innocent child when I look at your book. I see your face. I see my daughter. I got an eight year old girl and a three year old girl. I'm not okay with that. There's a part of me that is a

Naturally, my entire life had been very protective since we lived in Germany for two years and my mother and my sister were there. I was a 10, 11, 12-year-old. I was ready to do anything if somebody did anything to my mom and my sister and my parents weren't doing the work. I understand that. Was your family connected to the Shah? No, not at all. That's not why you left. No, we were not my mother's side, but I'm supportive.

of what the Shah was doing. I think when the regime fell, Iran's been a shit show since 1979. Iran was a beautiful place prior to that, right? No, it's not, not the people, what the politicians and some of the other people, people in clergy did messed up that place. No, but for me, I think the way you overcome this

is one by using your voice, calling out accountability, and moving on. And for liberals, sometimes when you're saying liberals, to me, it's a very weird thing, what happened with liberals. I think liberals lost themselves. They're a little bit confused. Feminists started off with a, well, I believe you, I can hear everyone just listening to you. Feminists started off as

wanting to be for women rights, women rights, women are great, but everything gets co-opted by those that want a brainwash. But conservatives are not, conservatives are not sitting there saying, let's have men compete against women, young girls. I mean, that's like the ultimate. See, but that is how everybody gets co-opted. That is a thought, an idea gets co-opted and then it gets pushed and you know, what does that even mean? What gets taken and used. So.

Not as a feminist, as me, I'll tell you that from a mind control perspective. So I was trained to get into the mind of men. And what do you do to get into somebody? You use their fear. You find what it is that scares them. So you use fear, then you got them, and then you insert an idea into their heads. So when I speak about the division is that every issue, what you hear about it,

is very specific and it creates more division because most people are not on that end of the spectrum or on that end of the spectrum as it's being presented to us. Most people are somewhere in the middle and yes, I think there's a lot of confusion because of that mind control. And when I say co-opted is, for example, abortion was co-opted.

for the, in the feminist movement, the issue of abortion was co-opted. Now Hans Harmsen, that German doctor, he was the head of Pope Amelia, so he was the head of the Planned Parenthood of Germany. He was friends with Margaret Sanger. And so there's something about abortion where

That has been become the thing, the biggest issue that is not every woman would know that being a mother is, you know, is why we are.

you know, being a woman is being a mother and is there's biological facets of that that make you more empathic in general and more able to open your heart because we're mothers. And that is, you know, that has to do with the biological, um, with a biological fact. So to take abortion where

First, there's sexualization of everything. That was imposed. I was going to be part of that agenda of sexualizing everything to go towards pedophilia eventually. Because I was going to be a girl singing sexy songs, and then I was going to be a woman singing like a little girl. So that is on purpose. So I was trained that way. And of course, there's a thought behind it.

that people will think it's okay that a little girl sings like, you know, make sexual jokes and then an adult woman sings like a little girl and everything that is being sexualized, the way that porn has become so incredibly accessible that most children today discover, you know, their

discover sex through porn, none of that is, I believe, on purpose. That would be very much fit into that agenda that I was going to be a part of when I was a child by these people who really want to control everything. And so when you take abortion, that is a natural side effect of sexualizing everybody. So when you sexualize everybody and you

you, and you make six, like having a drink, basically, that was the idea. Instead of a marital commitment, it became this like having a drink and this is what it is today. It's considered that. Well, that's what I think is the people that were in this network that there was

an agenda behind where we're going that has to do with this. The abortion would be a natural result of it sexualizing everything and that then the girl has to pay the most and that abortion then would become a good option, which it never is. So you never hear about how hard it is for the woman.

You never hear about how, for example, there is no consent form. Like, there's no consent form signed. You don't know what happens to the fetus. You know, when you sign, when you go in to have abortion, I am neither.

I am neither. I refuse to take sides in all of this because I have had an abortion. I was a sex slave. I was promiscuous. I got pregnant. It would have ruined my life. And it would not have been an option to live out the pregnancy and to give up the baby for adoption. It was not on the table.

It is such a difficult choice because you know there's life inside of you. Are you glad you're alive? But abortion is such a complex. Are you glad you're alive? You know, a lot of survivors of what I've been through would not really say yes to that. I agree. And today,

by the grace of God, I am here and I am glad to be alive. I feel that right now I have freedom that I never would have hoped to have and I feel purpose to my life. Yeah, you know, it's a very, and I agree that this is a very, you know, and that's what I mean by co-opted. These issues arise

It's the same people that create the problem and that create the solution. That's what I mean with co-opting. And that is what I mean with the division that has to be so extreme. What we see, it's not as if social media is not controlled. So there too, we get constantly, constantly brainwashed. And that's what I say we have to be very mindful of and careful that we don't start judging people.

Yeah, but you just, I understand you're saying that judging people. That's what we have justice. That's what we have. What kind of justice do you mean? Because they were in the network also, the people from, no, that's it. The people in the justice system were the head of for sale. And that's why I said they need to be called out when they're alive. Now when they're dead, that's why I ask you, who's the lady's name? You're like, I don't want to do it because she's alive. That's that's not why.

I told you the reason is because nobody would believe me and I'm not ready and it's not fair of you to ask me. But at this point, I don't, at this point, I'm not, I don't, I'm not interested. I don't even want you to say it. Even if you say I'll cut it out, just so you know, for you to know, I'm not, I'm not trying to close you in telling me, don't do it on my show. Do it on somebody else's show. If you give me the name right now, cut it out. It's a matter of timing. I have everything I do is calculate. Hang on a second. Here's, here's what I want to say to you. If, um, if you,

If you sit there and think about what is going on, there's nothing like unfair, what's the word? Unfair punishment. So you hear these stories of, you know, guys that went to jail for 20 years for selling a dime back. I know I worked in a prison. Why did I go to jail for a dime back, right? Or people that went to jail that didn't kill anybody, somebody else blamed them. And hey, he's gonna go in, right?

These are devastating. You want someone's life, their youth, you stole their 20s and their 30s. That's right. And they're going to get out in their mid-40s, right? But you need law and order so the big guy cannot bully the little guy. You need that. Unfortunately, because we have certain lobbyists and because we have certain politicians that are for sale, predominantly on the left that are for sale,

Well, no, don't say that. My verb creators were from both sides. Yeah, no, but absolutely. No, no, no, you cannot say. No, you don't know. I said politicians. I said politicians. It's cheaper to buy the people on the left than the ones on the right. You don't know that. Presidents, presidents who become presidents. You don't know that either. Presidents who become presidents.

who funded their own campaign are tougher to buy than those who were funded a hundred percent by donors like the Clintons, like the Obamas, like the Carters, like others. I'm saying that you don't know that. I don't know that. It's very simple because it's just called math. I have a different perspective. There's a reason why you have a different perspective. Having been part of... Well, you can say that, but that doesn't... I understand that, but that doesn't make your perspective a hundred percent accurate

I'm saying you don't know that. Also, you don't know that because you're also a little bit too in it because as a feminist, you said you're a feminist. It's easy. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to you? Tell me what it means to you? Well, I have been through a lot of things that I know that would have never happened to me if I was not a woman, not a girl or a woman.

So that means a man will never be able to understand what you're saying. And another one, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no, not at all. That just means that I am absolutely for full equality. That doesn't even mean necessarily legally. It just means that I as a woman need to be able to speak freely and with everything that that means as a woman.

That's what it means to me. It doesn't necessarily mean what you were making of it. Right. And I don't know what that meant, what you just said. But, you know, like for me. Well, because as maybe you don't understand then as a man, but as a woman, there are certain things that I've had to go through. Like, for example, harassment. It was extremely common when I was young adults to be harassed. I was harassed everywhere when I was living in Paris, when I was living in New York. It was just happening all the time. I believe you.

Yeah. I believe, for example, that's one of those things. No, I've been talking two different things. I believe that. I believe the sexualization of women, I fully believe that. Okay. I'm not sitting there saying that, but at the same time, the same people that wanted women rights are the same people that are okay with men choosing to compete in women sports. That's very weird.

Well, of course, and that's, that's not what I'm talking about at all. That has nothing to do with anything to me. But unfortunately, that's what a lot of liberals defend nowadays. And that's why they lost the election as catastrophically as they did in America losing seven immigrants. It's embarrassing. But I want to do this. Well, do you have that? Do you have that also that? Is that everybody or is that? No, I don't agree. That's everybody. Right. No, no, I don't agree. That's it. But by the way, I think John of Kennedy

Um, what he wanted to do with America, I think there was a lot of a lot of what he wanted to do was noble. And I trusted their family more because they self funded them running for office. You couldn't necessarily buy them. Anybody on the left or the right that runs for office. All my icons have been, you know, knocked off their pedestal is from speaking to people that have been through this.

Those are two different things. I totally get it. What's the saying, Rob? When they say, when you meet your hero, what's the word? Don't meet your hero because you will be quite often disappointed or some phrase like that because you're going to see they don't walk on water as much as you thought they did.

But no, look, I think it is a conversation that needs to be had. I do know it's uncomfortable and I do know I have a reputation of asking questions that comes to my mind and sometimes makes the meeting a little bit more uncomfortable and forgive me for being me. I've been like this for 46 years. I don't know any other way. I saw an interview that you did and I thought it was much more peaceful. Yeah, which one was that?

Am I a mia? Oh, because the conversation was a, you know, it was a, you know, that was more about her interesting story that she had on what happened with her, but there was a little bit of tension. There was a little bit of tension with her. I don't know if you watched the whole thing. Did you watch the whole thing or not? There was a little tension with her with her.

And not just that, her father of her child and some of the things we talk about that she was uncomfortable to talk about. That she asked not to talk about just like me. No, at the beginning she was open to it and then later on she got uncomfortable with it. And just like you, by the way,

To be fair, so the audience doesn't think I'm cornering you. You told Tony that you wanted to name names. I would. No, I didn't say that at all. He came to ask me if I wanted to know. Let's bring him in here then because I'm not releasing this interview. Yes. He came to ask me if I was willing to name some names. So then Tony's going to be held accountable. Yeah. So let's hold Tony accountable. Tony, if you can come here, buddy, Tony,

Come on, Tony. So when you told me you proposed for her to be a guest on a podcast, you said she said she wanted her name names that she's never named before.

I don't remember. I don't remember. But I don't remember saying that I wanted to name names. I would never say that because it's not really what I normally would do. And you brought it up today. I thought you meant today. You went and brought it up.

But I must not have answered you. I definitely did not tell you. I'm going to name names that I've never named before. Here's the point. The reason for it is like Tony has never misled me. So when Tony says something like, OK, cool. That sounds good. And I don't have a problem with that. But for me, it was.

But you're saying I want to come on naming names. That's not exactly what I would have. Would you say that I that I said I wanted to come on naming names? That's not really how I would say it at all. I was asked. I was considering it. Maybe this came up or not, but early early on two months ago.

Yeah. So well, yes, we write before we came on. But no, but but but only reason I want to qualify this because that's questioning the integrity of the interviewer, which is me. I'm not going to sit here. I'm not doing that. But hang on. I'm not going to sit here and be cornered as if I'm cornering you. Okay, that's how it felt like then then you're going to walk away saying this guy was just core. I'm not cornering you. I'm being told

Hey, there's a lot of things and she's at a point right now with everything that's going on with Diddy, Epstein, all this stuff. She feels compelled to want to talk and maybe give some names. That's a great conversation before right before coming in here and said, would you be willing to name some names of people that are alive and I.

went through the list and I, you know, told him I'm not comfortable naming David Rockefeller. I didn't say he's not alive. He's dead. He's dead. Yes, he is dead. When the person who's alive, I'm not comfortable. Yeah, I totally get it. And that's that's a different conversation. Let's separate those two. Okay. The those two, let's qualify.

One is you express the interest to want to come here for that reason to maybe talk about some names. No, no, it's not for that reason at all. I was first I was considering I did have an intuition that this is correct. This is definitely the biggest podcast I've ever been on. And this is, and you have a very large reach.

And I was a little concerned just because of your political views, frankly, I was a little concerned to come on because I do. We didn't talk politics. No, we didn't. You brought up feminism. I didn't bring up Trump. I didn't ask you about Trump. I don't think it's I don't think it's a political. No, but what I'm trying to say to you is this is not I'm not having a political conversation with you. I'm having a

conversation from a father with four kids who hear stories like this and we support a lot of charities behind closed doors that we don't publicly endorse because we don't want people to you know there are certain things that we will support and nobody knows about because you know we are I'm involved in this in many directly and many indirectly but this is a very important issue in my life.

And so when these stories come out and I hear names of people that are still out there that are not being held accountable, that upsets me a little bit, especially when there's somebody that can do something about it. I can't. I'm not in it. You are. And.

I'm all about giving the limelight for somebody to share some of those things with others so people can protect themselves from perpetrators doing it again repeatedly to younger children today, which is not fair. Somebody stole your youth and I'm not okay with that. And if we can do that to save

It from happening to the other 300 and 59,000 that FBI is reported in 2022. Children's missing. How are those parents handling things? Imagine the mother and the father not having their kids next to them when they put them to bed, when they put them to sleep, when they hug them, when they kiss them. My three year old daughter this morning was crying for no reason. Okay. And her and her sister got into it. And I went downstairs to check on her. She gave me a hug for 45 seconds. Let me tell you.

priceless. Give me all the money in the world. Well, not replace that feeling. I got skin to skin when I kiss her neck and kiss her cheek. And she's telling me daddy, I want to make sure every father and mother who is missing those children, I want more attention to it. So someone can do something about it, whether they're former military politicians, wealthy people that are willing to give money to it.

I want to bring attention to it. This is not an easy topic. This is very uncomfortable. This is why I said at the beginning, it takes courage to talk about it. I give you that respect. I know it's not easy. I know it's not easy to go through something like this. And it's not easy to speak about it. And it is also not easy to

sort through what seemed to be political views. You see, I believe that politics on the whole are there to cause division at this point. So, and I noticed how the division has sharpened in the last years. And so that is why... Who's done that, though? Who's done that? Think about who's done that. If you're pretty smart, okay, you've been around. Who do you think's done that? Who has the ultimate power?

Well, I would say that the people that I was used by, they wanted, they wanted to control not just their slaves, but they wanted to control everybody.

But how were they able to silence or get their message out there? What tool did they use in the 70s or the 80s or the 90s? In the 70s, pedophilia, for example, sold quite a bit. There was a lot that was very...

Like the blue lagoon for example that's a very that's a very inappropriate film and there's a lot out there in france there's a lot david hamilton from the he did bilitis now. The girls that were that were filmed by him were being are coming out saying that he raped them you see. The seventies they were really pushing pedophilia and it feels like at the moment there's.

A new push, again, towards pedophilia. Yeah, but where I was going with this is they did it by controlling the media. Yeah, the media, but there's also social media. Well, social media is a tech companies are also controlled. I know they are, but who they control by? The only guy that owns it that's conservative possibly is a guy named Elon, who used to be a Democrat. He left when they realized they're insane. They've lost their minds. That's one person.

But everybody hosts us on the other side. So, you know, I remember, you know, when you're explaining all this, I've shown these movies, there was a weird song back in the days by this guy named Benny Mardons, Mardons, which I don't know if you remember this song. She's just 16 years old. Oh, gosh. Remember that?

I mean, this guy's singing a song about you. You can find compilations of songs now where they're all singing about pedophilia. I read the lyrics. Here's the lyrics. It says, she's just 16 years old. Leave her alone. They said, separated by fools.

who don't know what love is yet, but I want you to know if I could fly, I'd pick you up, I'd take you into the night and show you way love like you've never seen. This is a grown man talking about a 16-year-old and it was asked in an interview. Oh, it's raining. Oh, it's raining. It's sitting on the dock of the witch song. No, the song, she's weary. She's weary. And young girls, they do get weary.

wearing that same old Chevy dress. And then just, and then the lyrics go, and young girl, uh, you won't regret it. He says you won't regret it. Yeah. Well, look, we're living a little tenderness. Yeah. You know, she's waiting, just anticipating. At least this guy didn't give the age. This other guy's given the age. She's young girls, young girls. It's young girls.

He's got the Beatles. She's just 17. Do you know what I mean? That's the Beatles. In some countries it was 16 back in the days. It was even in America right now. I think the legal age in America is some places. But we're still talking about grown men singing about a 17-year-old. It's always the same story. I'm with you. I understand what you're saying. But as weird as it sounds, look at this. Even in the US, some states, the age of consent is 17 in New York State, 15 in Arkansas.

The national average in US is 16. So some of this stuff is kind of, we maybe we need to update some of these laws that we have in place. But anyways, Anika, folks, we're going to put the link to her book Quest for Love below for you to be able to buy and support.

It's down there. We'll put it in the description and in the chat, please do support her cause and order her book. And again, I appreciate you for coming down, sitting down and having this conversation. I am sure, as usual,

As much as it made felt a little bit uncomfortable at times, I think the audience won today because we brought more attention to this discussion. However they see it, that's up to them. But I think we did more good than bad by having this conversation. I appreciate you for coming up. And I like the fact that you never talked about Trump because I don't like to talk about Trump. I don't like politics. And if you were going to go there, I was going to stop it. I was not going to be happy about it. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. This was great. Thanks, everybody. Take care. Bye-bye.

You're going to think I'm crazy when I tell you this, but the last 13 and a half years I've been working on my first fiction book to write, ever. Fiction book to write. And while I finished this book a year ago, I got the strangest phone call about one of the characters in the book where the guy wanted to meet with me and he read the book and afterwards is like, wait a minute, am I the villain in the book? This is a story about a character named Asher, who is half Armenian, half Assyrian, whose father was involved.

in the Iranian Revolution, linked to Savak working with the Shah that they escape and he gets recruited to a secret society. When you go to the secret society, it's been around for a couple of thousand years. They've developed some of the craziest leaders of all time and they test you. There's unique tests that they have at the society.

where they test to see your emotional mental toughness. One of the tests that they have is very rigorous. It's purely mental. Of course, there's a physical one, but one is mental and emotional. If you're Armenian, if you're Syrian, if you're Persian, this is a book, you're gonna be reading in St. Holy Moly, this the kind of stuff you talk about in here, yes. If you're somebody that's fascinated by history, this is a book for you. Characters, there's a technology that this society, Secret Society builds, where you go into a vault, I won't spoil it for you when you go down.

They have a technology where you get to sit down and watch and have a three-four-hour conversation with Tupac. You can set up a debate between Karl Marx and Ayn Rand. Karl Marx is in the book who wrote Communist Manifesto. Ayn Rand who wrote Atlas Shrugged is in the book. Marilyn Monroe explains the concept of seduction and sex in the book. When you read the book,

It's about development of the next leaders in the world and how they do it and how they've been doing it for many years. And it's also about how to prevent the end of civilization and how this organization goes about doing it. So I've never written a parenting book before, but if I ever wrote a parenting book, this is the closest thing to it because it's all mindset, a lot of crazy stories. Again, 13 and a half years, trust me, I told myself, I will not publish this book

until I sell my insurance company and I'm fully disconnected from it, where it's no longer my responsibility 100%. When you read this, if you're a creative person, if you like fiction books, if you

Enjoy it at the shrug. If you enjoy Divergent, if you like books like that, I think you can enjoy reading this book. It's the creative side. Business books is very easy. Here's how you do it. Here's how this works. This is very creative. If you haven't placed the order yet, now you can order it on Simon & Schuster, Amazon. I'm going to put the link up below somewhere here, maybe even in my profile. Go to the book.

and read it. I sincerely, I've never written a book where I can't wait to read your reviews to do see what you think about this book. So I'm going on this wild journey and we have some plans with this book here. If you support the things that I work on, I would appreciate you going to reading the book, order the book on Amazon and then post a review.