What's up, everybody? It's Tom Segura. We're almost into the new year, and I'll be bringing my Come Together tour to a bunch of more cities in 2025. January 18th, I'll be in Philadelphia. Haven't been there in a while. January 24th, San Francisco.
the 25th of January, I'm in Reno, January 30th, I'm in Athens, Georgia, and January 31st, Savannah. February 1st, I'll be in North Charleston, I can't wait to hit all these cities, get your tickets now, at TomSugar.com slash tour, and I will see you there. 100%.
Welcome to another episode of Two Bears One Cave. I'm Tom, he's Bert, and joining us today, we don't often get to say this, but we're actually being joined by a world champion. So please put your hands together for the one and only Cody Rhodes, everybody. Cody Rhodes. And then a huge announcement because the platform of Netflix just keeps expanding. But for people who don't know, Raw is going to Netflix on January 6. And so far,
Sports on the amount of things that they've done is pretty limited, but it's been a huge hit. It's fucking huge, man. So congrats. Live sports on Netflix and seeing Paul and Tyson and what they're doing at the NFL Christmas, it's the direction. It seems like Netflix is going. I'm really excited that we've gotten in early on it all and what Raw looks like on Netflix will be very different from what it looks like currently and in a way similar as well, but I'm very excited.
And you know, I was at the Paul Tyson fight, and if your guys could be anything like that, it'll be really electric. What do you think of it? It was a dog shit fucking fight. It was one of the worst things I've ever seen. We were fourth row, like, this is gonna be fucking amazing. And that undercard with Serrano Taylor, the women. Oh, such a good fight, yeah. It was phenomenal. And that got us even more gassed up. We're like, oh shit, this is gonna be fucking nuts. And then we got in there and watched a light sparring match.
That was like, what the fuck is this? It was crazy. I know there was like all these conspiracy theories, which is a natural thing that happens. But one thing that I mean, doesn't matter whether you're there, you watch it is like, it was clear that neither guy pressed that and like, you know, when you watch boxing, you see people set things up with jabs and then a jab usually at some moment.
creates an opening where you attack. It's like the basic fundamentals of boxing. And you would watch that happen. You're like, ooh, like right here. And then by the fifth round, you're like, I think they're just going to hang out. Light sparring. That's exactly what it looked like. My only moments with Mike Tyson, and I will treasure this moment always, he was a
Gosh, I think he was just ringside for a match of mine. He was presenting the championship after the match, but he saw other wrestlers backstage. And he seemed very, and I don't want to say out of it, because he was the sweetest, wonderful person. It was very nice to talk to him, but he wasn't saying much. And he just kind of seemed to be
I guess deer and headlights a little bit. And he's watching all these guys oil up and they're using the bands and they're pumping up and all that. And he just looked at me and I'm getting ready to go out. I'm getting ready to go out. And at the time, I was also in a management position. So I'm directing something, some shots, something. He looked at me and just said, do I need oil? And those are those moments where it's like,
It's Mike Tyson. I want this relationship to be good. So I'm in my mind thinking, what's he thinking? Does he think he does need the oil? Well, then I said, yeah, sure, sure. And then so he took his shirt off. So now Mike, Mike never had to have a shirt off for this. Mike's standing there just looking at me with his shirt off. And I remember he had like no belt on his jeans too. It's just a lot happening. This is the greatest fighter, you know, potentially ever and someone I really, really like. But he just took the bottle and kind of went like,
You do it to me and and he put a little on his hands and he puts him on his chest, but then he turned around sure so just just oiled him up and And he you know he looked good and I've I've put oil on another wrestler before this wasn't the strangest thing But the weirdest thing was right after that. He just threw his shirt right back on over it. No and and I thought
That's not the point. What was the point? Are you prepping? For you take the shirt, a lot of wrestlers might think at this point, I'm going to rip my shirt or whatever, but you're not doing anything like that tonight. And I do think he actually got his shirt off at one point, but yeah, I oiled him up. I always felt good about that decision to oil up my... I might be the best story that's over the whole podcast. That's fucking fantastic. What's my type of favorite book? What kind of person would I have been to say? No, Mike. Bro, I met him on a flight. Yeah.
fucking faniers. Well, it was a peculiar evolution where I had straight up panic about approaching him because I was like, you know, I was listening to like old guys going like, hey Mike, you remember 1987? He was like, yeah, like just like I was like, I don't be like, so I just worked up. It was like, it took like, I actually thought of it as courage because I totally, I was like, don't bother him. But then I was like, you never, this will never happen. Yeah.
And I gave him, I reached into my bag, and at the time, I had one special out, and I had a DVD, and I gave it to him. And I was like, I'm a comedian. And then he was like, he was like, cool, where are you going right now? I was like, we're both going to Pittsburgh. We're on a plane, you know? So that's what we're doing. And he was like, oh, where's your show? And I was like, it's at the improv. He was like, where's that? And I was like, I don't know, man. Wherever the Pittsburgh improv is, I don't know.
the geography of Shakespeare. And then he was like, oh, cool. And then he gave me a fist bump. And I was thrilled at the interaction. I was like, I had a moment with Nelson. And then I sat down. And I'm just like, I'm literally like my heart's racing, right? Cause like, I felt like it took a lot just to say something. I was like, I'm also kind of scared. Cause I didn't know if he was going to be like, bitch, leave me the fuck alone. Right? So I was like, and then I just feel him, this hand grab my shoulder and he's standing above me. And he goes, yeah, I know who you are. And I was like, what?
Wow. And he holds the DVD. He's like this picture. I was like, yeah, that's the, I just gave that to you. And so I was like, and then he leans down in my ear. This is almost like your oil thing. He leans down in my ear and I'm like, what the fuck's he gonna do? He leans down. He goes, I've been watching a lot of Netflix. That's it. And then he stands up and I was like, me too. What a great. And he goes, yeah. So he goes, give me your number. And I'm like,
Okay, so I give him my number and I'm like, we land and I just fucking run off the plane because I don't want anything to go wrong. And then I'm like, well, that was that. I've met so many celebrities who are like, give me, I'll give you a call or we should do a thing together. You're like, sure.
And so, next day, phone rings. It's Mike Tyson. Wow. He goes, we're coming to your show tonight and I go, okay. So, I call the club and I'm like, Mike Tyson's coming to the show. Yes. And they're like, sure. Like, they don't believe me.
And they're like, I'm like, okay. So then I get to the club. I'm in the green room. There's like 100 people there. So Thursday night and they're like, manager comes like, dude, Mike Tyson's here. I was like, I know, dude. I told you. And then he fucking, I can hear him during the show, hitting the
while he laughs. Oh, you had him, man. I had him for a second. And then the show ends and he fucking grabs me. He's like, let's go to the green room. So he takes me to my green room and then he just starts smoking cigarettes and buys like fifth cigarette. He goes, he goes, you got a window. I go, it's a little late for that. He goes, you got one. And I go, no. And he goes, he goes, that's when you'll know you've made it when your green room's got a window.
He just hung out for an hour. Wow. And I just asked him. And I remember telling him, I was like, yeah, it's crazy watching you guys train the training videos of those guys. And I just stupidly go like Roy Jones Jr. And he goes.
Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, why did I say him? Still he, I should say you. Like watching you train. That's like the hat trick of the celebrity heroic sports figure. Everything went right. It was incredible. You got the number, you got wisdom. Yeah, it was incredible. And he told stories and like, I would throw out names of boxers and he would be like, that guy's a bitch. And I was like, oh my gosh.
That's the dream. I have one more actual Mike Tyson moment that I don't know why I have. I guess I've run into Michael on a couple occasions, but he got inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. He did? He did. Yeah, he because he was a big part of WrestleMania and Boston with Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels. It's like the attitude arrow was coming into its own and Mike was the there. He gives Shawn this unbelievable right hook at the end. It's just great stuff.
He got inducted in the Hall of Fame, and I was sitting with my wife. And he started going on about my dad. And my dad had a very large, black fan base, very large. And he was talking about how my dad was kind of the first black world champion, even though he was a white man from Austin, Texas, and all this. And he was kind of, you know, he's obviously ribbon on the square here, and he was talking about like black's boitation and just making these jokes. These are jokes that as a white person, I feel like
I can't have a reaction to these. I need to just, you know, but my wife is black. So she's sitting next to me. So they keep, every time he makes a joke, they kept shooting us. And I was just like,
You know, like, like every time he made a joke and they'd pop on us, I'm like, oh man, please, like, I would have been gone. I would have left this in early. Yeah, sure. Like, gosh, yeah. Mike, man, Mike's the best. Yeah, he's incredible. As a kid, as a college kid, as a high school kid, I loved eating cereal. But as an adult, when I started having kids, I didn't want all that sugar and most cereals, don't give me the protein I need. Then I found Magic Spoon, an amazingly delicious cereal that tastes just like my childhood favorites.
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Oh my gosh, poor Hesterly. Yeah, it was I mean out your dad was the I'm I still I still go back and watch promos your dad did like you like They're just so the promo era of those guys is the best promo era It's I mean it was so much more important than the match to talk people into the venue to talk them to do that actually I'm so excited to see him this morning because
When I met Burt on doing Go Big Show season one, I think Burt and the whole Go Big Show production had a very different idea of what wrestling looks like in 2021 or 2021, whenever it was. And it took a full season for them to kind of realize like, okay, Cody's a different type of performer. There's a different, it's changed, it's evolved because at first I think he was really expecting like,
Dusty. They kept asking me, are you going to be in your gear at the judging seat? I'm like, no. You're not going to be old up? Exactly. No oil, not in my gear is one of those things. But it was fun because I said this earlier. Burt is one of the most wrestler.
He's one of the biggest pro wrestlers I've ever met who's not a pro wrestler. You're not the first person to make that observation. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Right out of meeting Bert, and I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but it was, it was amazing. It was, it was genuinely like inspiring. I met Bert. They had this dinner, COVID production, one of the first productions that was happening during COVID. We're all in this bubble, Rosario Dawson, Jennifer Nettles, Bert Snoop Dogg, me. We go to this dinner and right away I met Bert and he basically explained himself to me in three minutes.
as to why he was amazing, why he was famous, there was a movie rights on his name, and I thought, dog, this guy out wrestled me, because that used to be a skill that every wrestler had, the self promotion. So basically he made it so that if I didn't know him,
there was going to be no discomfort because you know me now. In our business, he is known as the promo king. Oh my gosh, I love that. Honestly, I just took from your dad because your dad was the best promo. Oh man. It's one of the reasons when we hung out.
Remember telling you I was like cuz we all went dinner and then me and you kind of connected because you like whiskey you like cigars Yeah, and I like both those things. Yeah, and you like this and me talking about myself Yeah, and so but I remember saying to you I was like yeah, I'm not really like I don't really know much about wrestling and you're like, okay
And then in like 15 minutes later, you're like, hold on. You're bringing up names that like only like a wrestling fan, you know? And I was like, well, everyone knows about Eric's. And you're like, no, they don't know. And I was like, come on, the call. Like, do you remember when Rick Flair and Carrie Von, and you're like, oh, Christmas day. That's one of the that fucking match. Yeah. I have a weird question about Netflix.
How much bigger is this audience going to be than an average viewing audience? Like when you guys do raw... Well, it's tremendous potential. It's the potential because when we were sitting there for that fight and two hours before, there was a Netflix executive next to me. So he's like, he goes, there's 30 million people right now on the service.
And then the next fight started. He's like it's 45 million people now and then right before the fight he goes we have a hundred million different subscribers That's just subscribers like accounts on right now and then people were like oh, you know the the the signal is all scrambled like people were buffering issues and it's like well Yeah, you have a hundred million subscribers what I can do is gonna be fucking huge. Yeah, I think
There's a lot of our library content, like our Evergreen content, so much great wrestling history, raw itself coming in Netflix. It's always, so from the pro wrestler standpoint, I always go out there with the idea that they've never seen me before. Yeah. So I got to give them a little birt.
Yeah, you put it on the show, right? I got to give him a little, like, I need them to know right out of the gate. OK, this is who he is. This is what she does, whatever it may be. And this is one of those cases where when the old timers and the producers and all the people we have backstage kind of are our wise men who help with the show together. When they say something like, hey, there's a lot of new eyeballs out there. This will be one of those situations where it really is. Really, truly is. And you have the chance to, you know,
to hook them. And I, you know, there's such a corny element to how pro wrestling used to be in terms of like reeling in a mark for something to watch. Now the audience is so sophisticated, so changed, and you have new eyeballs. We've never seen it. You can't just hook them. You can't be cheap. They have to actually see someone authentically that they like, and then hopefully they stay on board.
It was fascinating watching the I was watching the Vince McMahon doc and the Watching the history like the evolution and you know there was I mean there's a lot of aspects to it, but just the fact how I Didn't you know cuz I had no idea that it was everybody had territories and markets real
And you didn't cross territories and one of the things that they credit Vince with is being kind of brazen enough at one point to be like, fuck him, we're gonna go do it in this guy's territory. And then everyone's like, what do you like mob shit basically? So mob stuff genuinely. Yeah. This was your whole livelihood. My father, there's our individual in the wrestling space that I model a lot of the character I have after today and most people don't know him.
because it was pre-cable, pre-even, like, closed circuits, Eddie Graham, who was in charge of championship wrestling from Florida, who was my dad's mentor, and then my dad. His son was Steve Graham? No, Mike Graham. Mike Graham. Mike Graham. I went to high school with his daughter and his other son.
Yeah, so the Graham family, he was in charge of that Florida territory. Then there was Georgia, then of course in Texas there was world class. Yeah, there's Eddie Graham right there. Yeah, no, he was really ahead of his time. And one of the things that was special about Eddie Graham is he was really big on community activation. Like I mentioned, you have to be authentic. You can't just be real them in in the old fashioned way. They have to
he spent all this time at the boys and girls club that he he was a big ongoing everywhere that's why it was in the armory in the first place yeah you know like he was big on just it just a pro pro's pro was a eddy grand but he ran florida uh... vince's father vince senior ran washington d c in new in new york and then you had in texas multiple territories a w a i mean do you they didn't cross and if they cross there was a problem and they had uh...
There's a picture that really feels mafia. Maybe that's silly if you know anything of the mafia. I don't, but there's a picture of them at the NWA convention in Las Vegas, all black and white, all these wrestlers. You see Andre in the back, very unique body types, some decision they're all just facing the camera. That's where they would vote on the world champion, because the NWA world champion would go from territory to territory. But other things would not cross.
Vince Jr. of Vince McMahon was the first one to say, hey, I'm making the move. Now, you mentioned them on Eric's. Somebody else was going to do it. It wasn't a matter of somebody else was going to do it. He beat them to the punch. He beat them to the punch and then everything changed, you know, because closed circuit became pay per view. And the next thing you know, we often run. I want to ask you this because I'm always fascinated by boys growing up with
Regardless of if someone's dad is an athlete. Usually boys either go, I want to be just like my dad, or I don't want to be anything like my dad. And when you get to athletes, obviously there's children of athletes who go, I want to do that.
Um, like let's say in like the NFL. Yeah. And you know, there's some that do and then there's some that you're like, you just can't do it. You're not an NFL player, right? Or NBA in wrestling, like as a kid, were you, I want to, I want to be a wrestler, like as a young kid, or you kind of like, yeah, you know, it's just what my dad does, whatever.
So he brought me to a show when I was really young. He was his older dad. He was 39 when he had me. He was executive producers behind the scenes. It was a wrestling booker. He was helping the creative. So he wasn't in his full prime. But I remember when he brought me to that show, it was UTC Chattanooga. It's a building. WWE still runs this day.
and it was Brad Armstrong, this guy hit an arm drag, and just to hear the reaction and the women screaming out of their mind, it was one of those, I always tell people, I have no interest in the inside behind the scenes of wrestling, because I lived it. I like to be out. I like to be out there in the crowd. That narrative is what I enjoy. After that, there was nothing I wanted to do more. And you let it be known. Oh my gosh, I mean nothing. And was it like, was he like, great, or was it like, you got like a long way to go, kid, like you're gonna have to
I needed to earn, so I needed to earn his trust, because so many second generations and third generations in the pro wrestling sports entertainment space, they burn out, they turn out bad. I needed to earn his trust, and what I thought I could earn his trust with was actual folk style wrestling. Greco Roman, freestyle, all that. And because he had never done that, he was straight up promo entertainment. Great athlete, but he had never been on the mat before. He didn't even know how it was scored. He would come to my tournaments as a kid, and I'd see him for a takedown, hold up.
But then it would be a two point and he didn't know. And I was obsessed with it. Full blown vision quest. If you've ever seen that movie, just I dug in. I did summer camps with Ken Chertow, Granby VHS tapes I'd watch. I made it my own life. So you loved it. Loved it.
And at once I ended up winning a state championship as a junior and I had gone undefeated and I had gone on team nationals and made my way around. Once that happened, I think whatever I told him I wanted to do, he was good with it. He was good. He was good. I didn't have a curfew anymore. My sister still complains about it this day. Like senior year, he's fine. Where is he? He's been gone for three days. He's fine.
He wrestled in the place we shot go big. Yeah, we walked in. We walked in. He's like, I haven't been here since I was in high school. I was like, what? He's like, I want States in this building. Yeah, twice. Yeah. And that building, guess the making centriplex, the making Colosseum. Yeah. There was a little electrical closet that was right by where we'd all sit. Bert would be up on stage.
We'd be all sitting in the chairs and then I went in there and I cried my eyes out when I was 16 years old because I had won that tournament. Yeah. Yeah. Took like everything I could possibly muster to do it. And then I would just walk by it to randomly doing that show with us. And it's just a surreal moment. You want to know something wild? Hit me. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.
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Last year, I did that Colosseum. Nice. I performed in it. And I walked in, I didn't realize what I was making, I didn't realize what I was doing. And I walked in and I went, shut the fuck up. I was like, I was like, how the fuck did I get here? And it was so funny because I thought of you because I remember you walking and going, yeah. Shut the fuck up.
Oh, yeah, that's a special little building. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is a home to us because we were quarantined. I remember this. And you can only really like me and him hung out. We hung out with with our EP. We had kind of just started. We just kind of started doing this podcast. Yeah. And you're like, I'm going to do this thing. And I was like, what the fuck is that? I remember telling you, I was like, I'm going to meet Snoop. I needed advice on how to meet Snoop. Oh, yeah. And you're like, be yourself. Yeah.
At that meeting of what I was like what it is cuz yeah We had dinner at that in that one dinner with everyone's after he when I explained myself to Cody I think I did the same thing to snoop and he was caught off guard by me sure And he just went like this in the middle of it. He hit this
And he turns the phone around and it's Red Grant. He goes, you know this guy? And Red turns back and Red goes, he's cool. And he goes like, all right. And he's like, all right, cool. Wow. Yeah. You cool the right black guy. When I see Bert, my algorithm is all over Bert. You, Bert, Tony, all these things that have come from Bert's world. And my interaction with Bert, whenever I see all this popping off,
I'm so glad I get to sit with you today because I never got the chance to tell him. Bert was the spiritual and unofficial leader of that show and was so good to all of us. We were trapped in this Marriott connected to the making Coliseum. I had the biggest imposter syndrome ever.
Burt who's talking about selling out Red Rocks Snoop Dogg Rosario Dawson who's getting ready to play Ahsoka like is it already in oh she told us that our first night and I'm this big Dave Filoni fans or I know all this stuff I remember my wife telling me like you do not you do not **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
at a moment's notice could belt out a song that would just make you cry. She did it, we were, oh my gosh. The fucking, you're the song from Shrek. The one, she did it one time, we're in line. And I was like, Jen, I can sing. And she was like, really? And I was like, yeah, yeah, listen, I started doing it. And then she started singing over me. And I just went like this, hi.
She is so like I'll tell you it's so you to be able to go to the singer and be like I can sing all right He he he quarter, but he quarterbacked everything and you remember when I shot the bullseye with the bugging bow and arrow. Oh my gosh Yeah, that was like my highlight about you. I think I can shoot Yeah, it's like I'm not getting shot
And I fucking pulled off a bullseye. If there was ever a show where the sharpshooters weren't sharpshooters though, it was go big show. They'd have a sit up there and watch these guys, whether it was guns and they were shooting targets or whether it was arrows. And I thought like, is this a bit? Yeah. Like dude, and then like a terrible. And then Bert would come to us for like, so what'd you think? I'm like, well.
You missed. You missed more than the shots and they're mad. Because this was like COVID times we all need to be really happy and Snoop had asked, like, it's not gonna be a mean judge. We're gonna be all happy, but at a certain point, like, you're not good at this. Yeah, how do you think you did, man?
No, but I I wanted to thank you because you were the unofficial leader to and you were super sweet to me and Well, you and I were the closest. You don't Conrad. Yeah, I would have a glass of water. You know, it's funny. We have we have something from the show Oh fuck off. I know exactly what is it? I know exactly what this is just for for Cody They messed my name up in Snoop
Oh man, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I think you started doing. What's that guy's name? I know that guy. I can't I can't accept any knowledge. Oh wait, draw that back for him. There. Hold on. Listen to this. Well, that was Chris Jericho who said it wrong. That was Chris who said it wrong. Purposely.
I want to say at that point it had become a bit, perhaps, at that point, but also, and this is not to, gosh, this is not to bury what I was doing at the time and where I was, but discovery now, or I guess at the time it was Warner Media, sent me to do that show.
to help with the other show. And I was honored to do it and excited to be picked. But wrestling has a bad habit, and this is in all companies everywhere, of not understanding we're in a bubble, guys. There's a whole outside world. There's multiple mediums of entertainment. Don't be in a bubble. Don't be afraid to do a little crossover thing. Yeah, pure hardcore wrestling fans, they may not love it, but there's something on the show that's for them already.
Yeah. And that was, you know, I hate, I'm not bearing where I formerly was, but not understanding like the power, the magnitude, again, of new eyeballs and then of crossing over. And also I hate.
gatekeeping when it comes to what we do. That's one of the things I do really like about pro wrestling fans and sports entertainment, and I wish the locker rooms would feel this more. We welcome, please. If you've never been before, because I know Tom, you're not a big wrestling fan. This isn't true. I don't know where you're from. So there's some quotes out there. No, I don't know what you're talking about.
But I would say to you is like, hey, if you ever dip your toe in, and this is not a show for WrestleMania 41, it could be WrestleMania 42, it could be WrestleMania 45, come to it. Come, and if there's not something that you're like, all right, I get it.
I actually feel like, I mean, look, I've said reckless things in my life, but I do feel like I already know that I would have a good time. I think I experienced the same thing when I went to NASCAR. Oh, yeah. I went to a fucking NASCAR, and I went to NASCAR. I was like, this is amazing. Yeah, I had a great time at it. And I've watched, you know, maybe not a lot of matches, but like I said, I've watched multiple docs and like, I also get the fact that
I used to think they're so different, but what I'm saying is when it comes to wrestling and sports entertainment, it's really not at its core that different from traditional sports. In other words, going to a NFL game, it's like you got into this as a kid probably, and you're watching
the rules that are established and people like participating in it, and you cheer, or you boo, and you get emotionally involved. And then wrestling for me, it's just like, yeah, it's athletes, they're performing, and usually there's a foundation usually from being a kid, and you get emotionally invested. It's kind of a similar thing. When I was a kid, when I was a kid we'd go just about every Saturday night.
And the noise I remember just the noise when someone hits the mat just the noise was so visceral and the energy you get caught up in it old ladies telling people oh Yeah, and you just get so it's like it really is like I want to go so back. I don't go to raw. Where's wrong gonna be shot into a dome Yeah, oh my god in LA yeah
You gotta come. Hold on. Have you been to the end of a dome? No. It's fucking insane. You don't even have tickets. They scan your face.
Yeah, they also have the- You don't have money. They don't pay with money. You pay with your eyes. You go like this, and then it goes- What? I mean, dude. It's in a very advanced place, so they have every seat. Where in L.A. is this? It's right next to all that YouTube area. Like downtown area? No, no, no, no. It's by SoFi. Oh, like Carson. By all that. Oh my god. Oh my god. Wait, what's it normally used for? Clippers. Oh, it's the Clippers place. Yeah, we saw Billy Joel play there.
And every seat, you know, can measure the audio. So we have this one moment throughout the show where when I come out, I don't know how it caught on, but there's a part of my song that everybody sings, the same. It's just when the dude yells, whoa. They all yell, whoa.
And they pop off a bunch of pyro, but they're very excited about this. They're like, well, if you're on that show, if we format it this way, we might be able to tell who is the loudest. And you can pinpoint them and all that. And I thought that's a wild, insane amount of technology. I think they're going to go to Raw. For sure. Let's go. I'm pretty sure. How you have two boys, right? Yeah. How old? Six and nine. Six and nine. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter is only three and a half, and I'm struggling with
how to explain it to her. Because my dad didn't explain it to me. And he was just like, check this shit out. Well, no, I mean, so here's a term. You'll hear people say the term, K-Fabe. Yeah. So he just figured it was best for me to always believe. And for example, the four horsemen broke his arm, but they also broke his leg at one point in the cage. I remember finding a cast, and he had this giant closet.
And it was a big cast like I had when I broke my leg on my four wheeler, except it had hinges and it opened up. And I thought, oh, I want that cast next time. Not realizing that this was something that might have gone on for the public and might have gone off. But yeah, he never, he, I guess the way we put it, he raised me very old school, which I wouldn't recommend. Yeah. Because I'd meet people like Rick Flair and I'd meet these, Aaron Anderson, these nefarious enemies of his and kind of having
Like a disdain for the sure already not understanding these were your partners Yeah, people you were making money with and selling ticket wait until which age were you sadly? 27 you ready you ready? Yeah, you ready? I was 14 before you kind of like so there's two basically doesn't come down the chimney and leave stuff right right so
I was 14 and I think part of the reason it took so long is because I wanted the magic. Yeah, for sure. So there's two incidents. One, I'm watching a DDP Wrestle Hacksaw, Jim Duggan. They're on the show in Daytona and they're out in the ring earlier in the middle of the day, like three o'clock. And that's not something you see that often. A lot of people think like wrestlers are out there practicing. It's not as, you don't see that that often, but they're out there and they're just going over stuff and they're in the middle of this heated rivalry. I remember watching and I thought, okay,
and I'm accepting of it at this point. If that happens, then I'll know. And of course,
DDP is in the corner. Here comes Hacksaw, Big Boot. I'd seen it already. I thought, oh, that might be it. Did it emotionally affect you? No, no, because there was a prior event where the toughest person in all of wrestling was this guy named Haku. I don't know if you ever heard about Haku or Flair told you any stories about Haku. Yeah, he's a big fish situation where a lot of the stories you hear are like, no way, that's true. He didn't take that cop's eyeball. And then you'll find out later, like, no, he did.
He was all those things. Well, haku slammed a wooden chair over my dad's head and my dad is bleeding and he's in the ring and you know people are crying and he had this deep connection with the audience or deeply affected by it and I was just a young kid at the time. And obviously, obviously, you know when you pick a fight you're not winning. But I have them of the thought like I'm raised like
and hey, we still gonna fight though. I'm not saying I'm winning this fight, but we're still gonna fight. And he came back to the locker room and I was sitting next to my dad, my dad's bleeding, and I remember I stood up.
I don't know what my game plan was, but I stood up and my dad swiftly knocked me back down on my seat. And then Haku, who happened to be one of the most gentle, sweetest human beings in all of wrestling, came over to my dad. He shook his hand. He kissed his hand. He helped him take his leg wraps off. My dad was a lot older at the time and just said, I love you.
And then he left. And again, I'm thinking like, well, that should have been the moment I know clearly. And all my dad said to me was, the rules are a little different back here. We can't fight back here, but out there. So he really wanted to keep you going. So he's kept. So but in that moment, I should have known like, all right, you know, but also I'll say that's your level of belief in this. I don't know if anyone tells you this, but it's adorable. Okay. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, I wanted it to be. Yeah.
You know, like, I wanted it because I grew up on it. I got into fights over it. That was a big thing in elementary school. If a kid says it's fake, tell him, hey, it's not fake. If a kid says it's fake again, say, hey, one more time in the morning, if he says it's fake a third time, you punch him and it was always punch him in the nose. So that's terrible. That's terrible advice to give a kid. You punch a kid in the nose, you could break their nose, you could jack their face up. So multiple, hey, Cody got into another fight today. Hey, Cody got into another fight. My elementary school hated me.
hated my dad. We were like the Adams family. That was one he could have at least been like, hey, because I remember he told me as a young kid, he said, hey, you can tell them that I'm a salesman if you want to. And I thought,
Absolutely not. I refuse to say you are a salesman. My dad's fucking dusty, bro. Yeah, I'll be talking about it. But now I'm in the space where she's three and a half, Liberty, my daughter, where I do want to say to her, hey, just let him know I'm a salesman. Yeah, let him let him, you know, like just because I don't want her to get caught up in any of that because she's already I've seen her watch a few things and then.
When you, I've always wanted to ask this though, because like you mentioned like Tyson and his participation and you have people come in that are like not background wrestlers, like like a Mark Henry or like a Brock Lesnar or somebody, right? And so when they come in and they get what the world is and that there's a lot of, it's obviously,
Super athletic. Yeah, there's a lot of performance and obviously like we all know that people get seriously seriously hurt and there's tons of people have had serious injuries and tons of surgeries and stuff, but do you have? You know moments with these guys we were like hey like don't fucking flip a switch and like do you do you have to like
spend more time with someone like that who's coming from MMA or like Mike with boxing, or do they just kind of get it out of the gate? Well, I'd rather, in my case, I'd rather you come fully. Come and bring it. Bring it, because we can't afford it not looking good on TV. We don't have time to train you up in this moment. So if you're outside coming in, swing for the fences is a big quote I always say, that I afterwards would be like, regret that.
regret saying swing for the fences. But when it rocks a great example, it's very hard for me when I'll never say wrestling is fake. I had the F word I get really weird about and I don't know why, but I always say to people, hey, this reason I don't say it is because if you look at that dad and his son or the family over there, their feelings are real. So I don't need to say this is.
But I can tell you, if people ever wonder how real wrestling can be, the three matches I had with Brock Lesnar are the most competitive, and there's a thing when you work with a guy who's a big monster. He's a monster. Where they make you earn it is what they'll say. You're not just grabbing my leg, even though that might be the spot. You're not just hitting me with that, the Cody cutter. It's not just happening that way. You have to actually earn it.
and earn it is as close to it being in a real fight as I've ever been in my life. I look back at the three match of the Brock lovingly and so proud of the body of work we put up, but also I remember
scared is probably an appropriate term but just that was the most aggressive and I've been in fights and I've wrestled folk style freestyle did all that that was the most real anything had ever been for me in the ring and I it actually gave me a whole new education yeah on getting I guess to the top of our game what it really means is there is an element of you're not just taking this yeah thank you this is going to be a bit of a struggle because that man is
a freak athlete. And there's a lot. Mark Henry on the other hand, Mark Henry, because he came through our developmental and trained and all that. He's a lot like the big show. I don't know if you ever remember the show, Paul. They, they always had to be really, really gentle because if they, if they have you up, yeah, it's not that you can't be that guy, right? They had to be the most and big show for one is fucking animal.
Yeah, no, no. I mean, do you ever heard the story about him at the Strongman Toughman? It might have been the Arnold where he was on stage presenting. That's Mark and show together. Yeah. And there was the world's heaviest dumbbell, which it's all it's a bit. Nobody can lift it. Nobody can lift it. I don't even know how much it is. But Mark lifted it, which people were reacting to already and he dropped it off the stage. And it was like this kind of calamity. He went down and picked it up and brought it back up and put it back in the thing, not even thinking,
It all worked out like as if it had been planned. Mark was genuinely the world's strongest man. They say had he even trained a little bit harder, his records would have been untouched this day. His son has got a preliminary contract with us. Jacob. Really? Yes. Jacob. Wow. I remember when Mark was a junior Olympic lifter. Yeah.
He wasn't even on a proper meal plan. And so this like high level coach is like, what the fuck are you eating? Like and brought him in and was like, no, no, you got to be like, you have to you as a heavyweight need to be eating this much protein and all and like.
Was he just getting him to do that properly? Because he didn't even have any idea. He was just raw-dogging at all. So I got a good, I love Mark Henry. He's still part of this radio show called Busted Open. His son, Jacob, who is going to come up and babes probably Brock Lesnarus all when he does arrive. We're all looking forward to it. But I have a fun moment with Mark where I was in a tag match in Cape Girardeau at what's called the Show Me Center.
And it was a six man, and I'm in there in Triple H, and I think MVP or Mark's partners, but Triple H is really leading this match. Crowd wasn't great. It's one of those where the crowd wasn't great. There's daylight coming in the arena. We've never experienced that before. It's like a bad nation. Daylight's coming in the ring. And it's the only time I've ever seen it. And God bless. I learned a lot from Mark, and I hope he doesn't get mad at me for sharing this. But I watched Mark on the apron fall asleep.
I watched as we're in the middle of bumping all this stuff and we're the bad guys, right? We're the bad guys and I remember watching Mark just slowly.
taking that and then he come back he come back to life he come back to life and when we eventually tagged him there was not this we'd like to call it the hot tag could be the most exciting 15 seconds of the night there was not this big response not this big reaction I remember Triple H is you know now our chief creative officer just screaming at Mark like come on Mark this is the coldest tag I've ever they're having this conversation as
And I just couldn't believe it. But we used to joke his mark at 3, 6 mafia singing a song. It was like, beat him up. Break his neck. And we would just add terms to it like, beat him up. Break his neck. Get sweaty. Take a nap. And just like, just because I saw him do it on the apron, I never forgot it. He's great though. Mark is great.
With someone like him, though, I mean, obviously, you know it intellectually, but you can also physically sense the level of strength someone like that has when you're in a match with them. With Mark, with Mark, for sure, Mark was always really pros pro. I'll say with Big Show, I felt that the most because I pissed him off one night.
And I pissed him off one night, and he did what's called the big man kick out, where you cover him, and then the guy goes flying. Ha ha. But he put it all behind it. And I remember I hit the rope. It didn't even look clean. So he basically shot me up a good four feet, dead cold press, nothing underneath him, shot me up four feet. And then I went to the corner to take the big chops. These big soup bowls. And they were overhand. And I had my chin ducked just a little bit. And they hit me here.
just lights out, drooling on myself for real. Yeah, it came too pretty quick. And I don't think he did that one on purpose. I think that was more of my this, because I learned so much from Big Show. But the one time he ever needed to let me know, hey, I'll kill you. He did let me know. And I'm positive at that point. Young, green, positive I deserved it, and super helpful. And stuff actually in a hard way. Oh, OK. OK. Thank you for this bizarre lesson. But yeah, thank you. Now, very few people
can find employment after a neck tattoo? When did you decide to do it? Oh, I love it. By the way, this is one of my favorite stories. Yeah. We're sitting there and I said something about this neck to do. He goes, yeah, it was a little bigger than I thought.
I, uh, the logo was already the American nightmare logo I already had. So I was never about the art. I was never about the look. And I, I, I went through this phase where I was really, I was away from W2B at the time. I was trying to really build my own brand and be my own thing. I was tired of wearing other people's logos. Like I hated going into dicks and there's the, you know,
rocks logo everywhere. I was like, I'm going to make my own thing. And I want to be as bold as making, I'm going all in on my own thing. So I had this idea that I would put it on my chest. And then I saw Conor McGregor, who was just absolutely box office hit, marquee guy. He had a big, the big line on his chest like, I can't, well, I can't do the chest.
Then I, of course, think about the rock. He's the biggest marquee guy and, you know, my current boss as well. And he's got the Brahma Bull before all the Samoan tattoo. It was just the Brahma Bull. I thought, well, I can't do the arm. That's, you know, Goldberg too with the barbed wire. I thought, hmm, I'll do the neck. I'll do the neck. And I did. He showed it to me.
And it was smaller. And I thought, that's perfect. It'll peak right over the collar. I'm always in suits. That's perfect. And I love this guy. He still helps, like, he'll dial it up and fix it every now and then when it needs to be. But I did the dumbest, most alpha-toxic thing ever as I sat there in the chair, and he kept giving me an out. He goes, you want to take a look?
You want to take a look? I mean, cap giving me an out. You want to take a look? And I know I'm good. You know, I'm like, grid in my teeth. I don't know who the fuck I was trying to impress. There's no one there. My wife's not there. Like, I'm good, you know? And then I got up and they're filming this. They're documenting this whole thing. I got up and I saw it.
And I didn't say anything in the moment, but it's like a kid on Christmas who the gift was not the right power ranger, basically. And I thought, well, thank you. I think the first thing I said was thank you, shook hands, and then headed for the door. And I had to wrestle the next night.
So I had a signing that morning where I wrapped it in a scarf because they wanted me to do it fresh right away or take months and let it heal. So I wrestled the next night. So I'm at this signing with a scarf around. It's all, it's coming up over the scarf. There are people clearly who know something's up. Yeah. I remember Jim Ross, legendary Hall of Fame announcer. Yeah. He thought it wasn't real. He thought it wasn't real. I walked into the production meeting and at the time I'm reading the production meeting. I'm the boss at the end. I remember him.
Hold up. Is it fucking, he couldn't believe it. Like, he couldn't fathom that this giant thing now existed, but I tell people, I guess in the long run it was really worth it. It's kind of right. I mean, here's the thing. I think for your job, it's rad. And if I didn't know who you were, I'd be like, this guy did 20 years. You know, like he was dangerous individual. Let me ask, I had,
I had like another, I had two dreams growing up and this is so stupid for giving me. To do time in prison. 20 years. I wanted to be a wrestler and then I really want to be the governor of Georgia. That was like, I grew up in Georgia. I love my state. You wanted to be the governor. I wanted to be the governor. But hang on, hang on. I have plans on being the governor of Florida. You could do it. If I met Arnold Schwarzenegger, I was like, I'm going to be the governor of Florida. And I literally was like, this is a real dream.
I could be a politician. This could be real. Especially, we'd be like, you'd be Governor of Georgia, I'd be Governor of Florida, be right next to each other. Oh, just buddy governors, you know? Dude, this can happen. He comes up with stuff like this a lot. But that's inspiring, though, because if you watch the Arnold doc, I think a lot of people are like, oh.
he said he could do it that mountain top that whole thing he goes into about i see another mountain and i have to climb it but that i thought a little bit about it later in my life about the tattoo and i thought i don't know if everyone would understand that tattoo because i think at a glance no once like as a if you were running for something like governor the thing about it is your story gets up so you become actually you become the person
who opens doors for throat tattoo people. Like they would be like, ever since he became governor, I got hired by a tech company and people stopped shutting the doors in our faces. Yeah, you'd be that guy. I want to stay to Florida tattooed right here. Oh my gosh. Little and green. It's the Florida. There is no reason you shouldn't do that today. Dude, I have a tattoo gun.
at my house. I've been tattooing people all the time. Tattoos. Tattoos. Tattoos. He does that. Tattoos. All you have to do is choose to say something differently. Like aluminum. Yeah, aluminum. Yeah. There it is. And then the nightmare. No, nightmare is like. I assume that was purposeful because I was gonna screw you over. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Nightmare is how I thought it was. And now I can't change it back. Did you see American Nightmare, by the way? Yeah. The dock. Oh, so crazy.
It's unbelievable. So I like it. So from a true crime doc perspective, nothing annoys me more than, okay, he probably did it. And then three episodes in, they're like, yeah, he did it. I need a spin. Yeah. I need something in American nightmare, that taco. Oh my gosh. Well, I don't want to spoil it for everybody. Let's spoil it. Fuck him. So at the end.
Because I always get on this is like, whether or not people always argue about, you know, is there such thing as normal? And you're like, yes, of course there is. And there's a spectrum of normal behavior if you're somebody whose girlfriend was just kidnapped. And the way he is in that interrogation room, you're like, this is fucking completely abnormal, the way he's talking. So it leads you to go like, yeah, something is fucked up. He's a problem. And in episode two, when they feature the girl,
