The Power of Visualization: How Fighters Plan for Victory Feat. Michael Chandler

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Hey, everyone. Welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure to follow the Ed My Let Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. The young man I'm introduced to you is like a second son to me. I'm honored when he calls me dad.

He's one of the greatest fighters in the world in the UFC, but he's really one of the greatest people that I've ever met. I love him dearly. He's a good man, the great Michael Chandler. Michael, welcome to the show.

What's up, dad, man? Thank you for the kind intro. You are the man. Oh, here's my surprise for you, Mr. Chandler. I have my really, really good friend joining us today, everybody, and Michael. This is Mikey Garcia, who is a four-time, he's a boxing champion, four division champion. Mikey, thanks for jumping in, brother. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, then. Michael, pleasure to meet you, brother. So, bro, I'm just curious, Mikey, if you're talking to, you've had these huge fights, in fact,

I've been in Texas stadium with his dude in front of 50,000 people. I mean, he's had huge, huge fights. Is it different in a big fight, Mikey? Like anything you would say to Michael, you know, mentally, is there anything different when it's a huge high profile fight as opposed to, you know, something that no offense any of great boxes, but some casino on the come up compared to, you know, a big arena, Vegas fight or whatever. Did that affect your mentality? Did you look at the fight differently? Is it just another fight?

Look, you've been in it, you know, your whole life, you know, I was in it since I was a little kid. So I always took each fight as a big fight because I knew, you know, winning one fight would lead to the next and move my career forward. So getting to the big arena, to the big stage, you know, you talked about, you know, AT&T stadium, you know, in Texas, you know, and 50,000 people there. But to me, it was just another night. I worked my whole life to get there.

I was just excited to finally make it to that stage, to the highest in my career. What I did do a lot is I visualized that a lot. I visualized the fight, I visualized training, I visualized every scenario during the fight, winning or losing rounds.

overcoming challenges in the fire, a cut, a knockdown, whatever it could be. I would always visualize, you know, and that went for forever fight, but especially on the big one, because I don't want anything to be, you know, out of, you know, my norm to scare me or timid me in any way, you know. So for me, it was visualizing everything, the ring walk, you know, the introduction to the fight, just so that I could have that already in my head.

When I experienced it, it wasn't as new. It was already there before I had already logged it in. I've already seen myself in front of that kind of attendance, that kind of crowd, and I just felt comfortable. I felt normal. It felt like another day. The training, obviously, was harder. The training was more vigorous for the training camp, and longer weeks, all that.

Because I was fighting a bigger guy. I was fighting a bigger man in the ring on Fight Night. So I had to prepare a little differently. But mentally, I was strong. It was like a normal thing. Like, I just need to be here. I visualize David Brown.

Even even though the fight didn't go the way I originally wanted to I thought was my first loss But I walked out of that 100% healthy fine. We hung out the next day. We flew back together We flew back together. You can tell you can tell that my my mindset was sharp as ever I was still you know confident I was still having plans for the future and it didn't send me back You know, it wasn't ever like that. Yeah, so that's that's it

I'm gonna ask you, by the way, does that sound familiar, Michael, about the visualization? By the way, all of you, this is a gift you're getting today that, you know, I didn't intend to give you publicly and I don't know that I'll put all this out either, by the way. But to have two...

gladiators talk to one another like this about it what's in by the way mikey and i did fly back after that fight together and i was like just struck by how commie was like sorry bro we're gonna do this we're gonna do that but mikey what was interesting about what you just said and michael i'll let you ask mikey anything you want to that's why i brought him here today but mikey you would actually visualize negatives to you're okay with visiting i lost around or whatever i'm interested in that um

You think that was an okay thing to do because I do as well might as well I mean you're gonna lose around you're gonna get hit something bad's gonna happen To avoid thinking about it to me seems sort of silly why not become familiar with it so you can respond Is that why you would do it? Yes, it's just so that you don't get nervous or panic if something does happen during the fight It's better be well prepared for any scenario You know including a knockdown or a cut, you know something of that nature, but no matter what

I envisioned or I visualized, I always came out the winner. I would always visualize myself winning at the end of the night, whether I lost a couple rounds or it was a tough fight, I got dropped in one of the rounds, but I got up and I know how to react and I know how to continue with the remainder rounds and always winning at the end of the night.

In other instances, different fights, I did get dropped onto separate occasions, but I knew what to do. I knew how to react. I had already planned how to even get up from a knockdown. I didn't want to get up in any way that would

make the referee think that I was hurt and stop the fight. So I purposely figured how to position myself, how to take my time, how to take a knee first, and then slowly gradually walk up and then walk a little bit towards the neutral corner, give my opponent more space.

More space so that when the fibers zoom I wasn't right in front of them, you know and he's attacking me I give more space, you know, so I would visualize that and prepare myself I didn't do it in training camp where I would purposely go down and get up No, but I would do it here, you know training my mind to be able to react in those scenarios if I got cut I knew exactly to signal my corner and

Let them know that I was cut so they could prepare the medicine. So as soon as the end of the round was there, the bell rang, I was already close to my corner. In fact, a lot of rounds I would walk close to my corner at the 10 second count. I walk close to my corner. So in case there was anything, they'd be the first ones to attend me while my opponent still has to walk all the way across to his corner. Those are a few seconds extra that I will have that my opponent doesn't have. So I want to practice all this.

What I want everybody to get, whether you're an entrepreneur or you're an athlete or I want Michael to for this, is the specificity of preparation, right? The thing that you would actually, and in Michael's case, it's not quite as easy if he's on the ground, but the specific thing that you're actually edging towards your corner early to get those extra seconds of cuts. Now, one thing you were great at, this is more like inside stuff for Michael.

One of the things Mikey was most well known for in boxing was his ability to go in with a game plan for the fight because his brother is the greatest trainer in the world. And so they had a game plan for the fight, but.

Mid-fight, mid-round, begin to pick up on tendencies that he didn't see on film. In other words, react when things don't go the way he expected them to go, Michael, right? But that was, I think, Mikey, you correct me if I'm wrong. I think that was actually your greatest strength in the ring. Was your ability to adapt to a dude, whatever you saw that night? First, am I right about that? And two, any insight for him? Let's say he gets in there with Connor, right? He's gonna have a game plan. We're not gonna say what it is.

But like most fights, you know, like Tyson says, everything can change when you get punched in the mouth or just Connor comes in there with something totally different, right? Connor's gonna throw some things out of me as I'm seeing before. Were you, were you consciously thinking as you're going or is it some depth perception thing you're using a feel thing? Like what would you do to read him?

Look, I'm looking at my opponent. You know, I'm taking the first round or two rounds to study my opponent. The way I study my opponent is I feel his speed. I let him punch a few times to be able to time the reaction, you know, time the speed of the punches and also timing.

his defense. So I'll jab a couple of times and see how fast he can either block or dodge the punch so I can make my adjustments as the rounds go by. Second round I'm still feeling him out but maybe by the third round you know I'm already

have a good idea of what to do. However, things can change. Like you just mentioned, things change. So I prepared myself to be able to adapt. And as the rounds kept going, I'm also listening to guys breathing. I'm listening to the way his body is posture, you know, his hands still up high and is still

Got the same intensity behind it, or is he starting to slow down? Is he starting to wear out? Are we tying up? If we're hugging, if we're tying up, is he trying to let loose to continue fighting? Or is he just kind of trying to rest now? It's an eighth round. Maybe he's just resting a little bit, you know? So I'm paying attention to all that. And at the same time, I'm figuring out what I got to do to keep countering his

you know, fight his game. If he's changing something, if he's still on it, if he's still trying to do something, okay, maybe I got a box a little bit more, maybe I got a pressure. So all that training came from being in shape in the gym, training hard in the gym, all those weeks of training, you know, all that. There's days in sparring sessions where I would box 12 rounds, beautiful footwork, beautiful speed, counter punch for 12 rounds.

So that I knew I can do that for 12 rounds on finite, but then there was other days where I would switch it where I'd be fighting, you know, eight rounds solid forward pressure pressure in case I needed to do that on finite. I know I'm capable of doing the as well. So training, I would do all that. I would do all that in training.

a lot of people would say, well, some of that he's got time because there's 12 rounds. But there are, but there are eight, but there is a ton of guys in the UFC that are spending time reading. I think of Izzy. He does that. He's reading cadence. He's reading speed. He's reading pace. John Jones, St. Pierre did it. This is done in the UFC as well. They're pacing themselves in the round. They're making, and these are just things for Michael as he's

ready for the fight that I want him to at least have the gift of in considering and then just you know for back and forth was there anything and then Michael I'll let you ask him something anything press wise that week this is more of like an inside thing but like big fights is more press there's more demands on your time particularly fight week right and I mean can you imagine

McGregor Chandler, what the press demands will be that week. One of the biggest fights in the history of the sport. So anything you did to mentally stay a particular way or pace yourself or that you would think of in dealing with, just even press for the week fight. The press, that media is gonna be tough. It's gonna be rough. Everybody's gonna be pulling you left and right. Everybody wants 10 minutes of your time.

And you're obligated, you know, to some extent you have to give, you know, press, you got to get the media sometime, you got to give them interviews. It's part of promoting, it's part of being professional, you know, at that level. But what I used to do was any moments that I had free time, I go rest. I would always make sure I get enough rest.

Even if it was only a 20-30 minute nap, even if you don't go to sleep, but just laying down chilling and resting your eyes for those 20-30 minutes will help. At the end of the day, your number one goal is to perform and fight on Saturday night, on Fight Night, your best of your capabilities.

The media can wait a little bit. The media can be put to the side. You got to give them a little bit, but it's not all that matters. The number one thing is win the fight. You know, that's number one. So you got to give them some time. Yeah, it's part of promoting part of the business, part of, you know, marketing the fight. But every moment that I had every hour, every 30 minutes that I had,

I'll go take a break. I go take a nap because that would really, really help me continue my day and keep the energy. It's exhausting to be in front of media repeating the same thing over and over and over and over. And you have to have the smile on the same energy. You're experiencing a lot of energy over the days. You know, you may not be working out as hard anymore because now it's chill, we get lighter work until you got to cut weight. You're kind of slowing down on the pace of the training, but the whole media, the whole press,

It's exhausting. So take all the time that you have to rest your body. Like I said, at the end of the day, if you really don't feel like doing every single interview, you don't have to. You don't feel so gay. I'm not doing that one. I'm only doing the ones that really, really matter because I'm contractually obligated. I'll do that. You know, the network or the main ones. After that, hey, I'm done. I'm resting. I want to win the fight.

Yeah, these are all things, by the way, everybody. Let's just be clear. Michael said tons of huge fights, Madison Square Garden. I mean, he's fought in the biggest arena in the world, just like Mikey has, right? He's done this, but everyone listening to this, it's getting an inside peak of what top athletes in the world think about and talk about. Same thing comes in business. Sometimes you got to say no to meetings because you got a big close at the end of the week. You got to be your best in peak at that moment, right? So these are all the same principles. Mikey, all the, Michael, rather, all the big fights you've had

I just wanted to put someone almost the same sport, but a little bit different. We could have to just have you think about it just from a little bit out of the box, but still in the same box type thing. Both of you guys have had the biggest fights in the world. You've both won them this fight. Mikey's Michael rather is going up and wait a little bit per his own decision. So cutting won't be as bad. You went up and wait to Mikey four different times. Michael, what anything you want to ask Mikey before I.

Let him go so we can have the rest of the show and talk about anything you want to ask him.

Yeah, I mean, more than anything, I just, I love the piggyback off of like, you know, what you were saying about the visualization. I mean, just for the audience listening and even hearing it from a world class guy like Mikey, who I have watched on TV so many times, knowing that before going into that fight during the visualization isn't all just about success. It's also about overcoming obstacles, right? Because who doesn't want to be able to see themselves

knowing that, you know, you're going to be in the trenches taking grenades and you're going to be able to get through them and how you're going to react and respond and seeing yourself become victorious even when there is a little bit of adversity as well as, you know, we're not there yet to fight week yet. Next week, I got to go out to New York for a full day to do some press stuff. The press is about to start picking up. And I think for me,

Realizing that I have such a great crowd of witnesses. I've had big fights, but this is even bigger. So therefore, it's even more of a conviction to show up with a smile on my face as much as I can, but also be selfish when I need to, to take a little bit of time and maybe say no to a couple or you're like, yeah, this one's not exactly.

you know, one of the big ones, you know. But no, that inside of even just like thinking about and your highlights and the fights that I've seen you in and thinking about that man, because you've always just been that man, that dominant guy out there, but then also here in those little idiosyncrasies about the visualization and all the different things that you

Looked at and watched and played inside of your head even leading into those fights and they weren't always positive But they always they always ended with your hand getting raised. Yeah, you know Mikey, I gotta tell you man. I'm really grateful you did this today, bro You're like, you know, you need to do it immediately Michael just so you know and me that I asked Mikey's like yep, I got you He was in New York is like I got it. I'll make it happen I had to change the time on him He's like no problem bro and the other thing everybody should know and I talked about this Michael Oh time Mikey saved his money

Mikey saved his money. All you athletes listening. That's why he's real casual in a t-shirt and me and Chandler are still working right now. Chandler says he do. But Mikey saved his money and he's a young wealthy man. Bunch of real estate. He's done really, really well for himself. So I love you brother. Thank you for jumping in. I appreciate it. I'll text you when we're done here.

Let me know. Thanks, Ed. And Mike, we want to wish you the very best, Michael. We know how gangster you are. We know such a badass you are. You got this. I mean, you've been turning your whole life for this. There's nothing more that we got to give you much more tips on fighting. You've done it. You just got to go in there and take care of business, brother. I wish you the very best. I'll be checking you out.

Thank you so much, man. I appreciate you, man. And I might have Ed connect us so we can do it today. I'll connect you and we're done. I would love that. You're the man Mike. I appreciate you brother. We'll go get them dinner after your fight. Yeah. Hey, yeah, weren't you say Julio's or where you want to go? We're going to go to hot years when you're going to win this fight. There you go. Let's go. You're going to win a fight and you're going to buy us dinner. So that's right. I got that. I got you guys.

All right, brother. Take care, Mikey. All right. Have a good one, man. How cool was that, bro? Was that cool? It's so cool, man. Absolute warrior. I mean, that was a thing too. Obviously, phenomenal technician, phenomenal at boxing, but also just a warrior, man. Like it's obviously, like you said, different sports, but they're the same. It's hand to hand combat, whether it's wrestling boxing, kickboxing, he's hand to hand combat.

competitions, man. Yeah. And one of the things that you all should know that, you know, kind of inside baseball stuff that Mikey and I work on and that Michael and I work on is visualization. A lot of you ask about that, but it's like really detailed stuff and it's okay to visit a failure. It's okay to visit a down cycle. And in fact, I think it's really important because then you can program yourself out of it. So anyway, I just wanted to have you visit with him for a minute and, and have the audience listen to the two of you.

Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. I got him. Right there. That's Goggins, everyone. Number one requested guest. You don't know this. For my show, the last two years is you. Really? Yeah.

Yeah, really. Honored. This is a gentleman who completed Navy SEAL training, Army Ranger training, Air Force TAC-P training. I believe he's the only person in history to do that. Yes, sir. This is a guy who did three hell weeks, 60 plus ultra marathons, running with broken bones for 30 miles to get into one of the mega ultra marathons. And a lot of people call him the toughest man alive, but I'm excited because I get to call him my friend now. I've enjoyed this conversation so much and I think you guys are going to join the on-camera one. So this is Goggins, everybody.

I appreciate you having me, man. Thank you. Thank you. Start a little bit with, like, how you grew up, because I think that's part of the story. Well, my dad, so I grew up in Buffalo, New York. My dad really helped create this. I'm not giving him credit. Yeah. Like, oh, he was a great dad. Like, clap my hands for his ass.

He helped create this because he was just that he was a devil. You know, he was a guy that had to be very insecure, very beat down. Something had happened to him when he was younger because the way he treated me, my brother, my mom was just horrible. So he would beat us, my mom, my brother, my me. And I'm not talking about like, oh, you got in trouble. Something to give you a whipping.

When he was drunk. So whenever he woke up, man, he woke up drinking, went to bed drinking. And that's as hard as it was. When he got drunk, he just got violent. So my mom caught my dad cheating. We got home about four o'clock in the morning. So I'm about seven, eight years old.

And I hear some ruckus outside my room as I'm getting ready to bed down for the night. And my mom and dad are outside my room because there's a staircase right there. And my dad is smacking the hill on my mom and knocks her almost unconscious, where she's kind of out of it, you know, she's kind of loopy. She falls down, he grabs her by her hair and drags her down and stares by her hair.

And so at this age, I'm still thinking, man, you know, what the fuck should I do, man? Like, you know, I'm scared, but then something in me saying, you got to go and do something. Oh my gosh. But I'm scared of death of this guy, because he's been beating the shit out of me since I can remember. And I mean, like, laying me out for nothing. And I'm still thinking, man, okay, man, like, I wouldn't be able to do so my brother.

He and I were very different. When my brother would see the fighting, he would go to this room and hide. I didn't do that. I always stuck around. So this time I stuck around and I decided to help her out. So I go on the stairs and I jump on his back. And literally, he tells my mom, you're raising a gangster. And she's like on the floor. And he's almost smiling, almost like proud.

But that smile went to a frown pretty quick, and he beat the living hell out of me. And he beat me, literally, from my neck down to my ankles, like black and blue. So next morning, I was in school half the day. My mom woke up, and she pulled the covers back. And what she saw was how bruised I was. And so when she pulled the covers back, I saw a bruise that was, I'll never forget looking at her face.

because she used to write letters for me, you know, for me and my brother to miss PE because we were so bruised up from getting beaten. So, you know, how he's sick or whatever. And so, you know, she was lying a lot for my dad. So, this particular day, she didn't write a letter. But when I lay in the bed and looked at my mom, she pulled the covers back, I'll never forget looking at her face.

And her face is tattooed in my brain. And while I say that, this past year, I got the VFW Award for Americanism Award. And if you Google David Goggins VFW Award, I'm in front of 5,000 veterans. And I'm getting this amazing award. John McCain got it. And I'm up here thinking, I'm up here getting this award. This is amazing. It's forgiven back and also having a great military career.

and I could give this six minute long speech. And I'm up there, man, I'm talking and I'm thinking, I'm thinking people who help me out. And I get to my mom, she's sitting back, you know, she's sitting right here on stage but behind me. And I haven't cried in 30 years. I came and pictured it. I haven't cried in 30 years, I just don't do that. And I turn around and say, and I want to thank my mom for not picking me up.

when I was knocked down, but teach me how to get up, because she never picked me up ever. And because her circumstances sucked. So anyway, I looked back and I said that, and I got done. I didn't even get a chance to say it. I looked at her eyes and my head went right back to her face when she saw me bruised up.

And that fucked me up. And for 58 seconds, look at the video and you'll see me, my head's down and I'm sobbing. And I'm in front of 5,000 vets and the guy who was hosting the thing had to come up to me and put his hand on my back. And I was just destroyed, overcome with emotion. And then 58 seconds go by and I get up and I deliver this speech.

And so I tell you that because life, my life tattooed me. And so when I came from Buffalo, I was eight years old, several learned, I didn't have one learned disability, I had several. But I hit all this shit. I never talked about my dad being crazy, or I couldn't read, I couldn't write, I got held back in my second grade. So now we moved, my mom now finds the courage to move to the small town called Brazilian

Was that beating the catalyst that made you leave? That was a catalyst. And that's probably why you flashed back to that second. So basically that next morning, so this will happen. That beating happened and maybe two days later, my mom's in the living room while my dad's in the kitchen talking to one of his girls.

My mom walks in the kitchen with me and my brother sitting in our, you know, standard locations at the table. My dad in the head of the table, me and my brother inside the table. And there's a phone behind my dad. He always talked on the phone, smoking cigarette, drinking in scotch. And he's talking to one of his girls on the phone. And my mom walks in.

And this is where she was at mentally. She walked in, looked at me, my brother, and she said, you guys can come or you guys can stay, but I'm getting the fuck out of here. And so she was broke. She was just broken. And I got my shit and I packed. I was gone quick. My brother was kind of like, what should I do?

So long story short, he doesn't come with us to Brazil and Indiana, but he didn't want to come. We had car troubles on the book. He had car trouble, all kinds of shit happen, but we finally get to Brazil and Indiana. Let me jump in real quick. First off, when he says the book, everybody, I've read a lot of books. It's my favorite thing about you. Obviously, there's this things we're going to get into in a little bit here that are just remarkable about you, that you've achieved. Actually, I don't think it's remarkable about you. I think you found remarkable spaces in your own mind that other people could also find. Right.

But I think it's remarkable you found them given these circumstances well said but the book that he's referring to guys is can't hurt me and when you read this book Everybody I'm telling you these stories like he's telling them now. They jump like I read the whole book in one day Wow

And the reason is, is because I was so fascinated with you in the first place. But it's a, it's, I think it's almost like a documentary into what can build somebody like you. But it like, for me, people that are listening to this, especially you young people that listen to it, and I know some of the language is strong, but I just want you all to understand something.

No matter what you're going through right now, whether you're seven years old or 77 years old, those things don't define you. This man, what you're about to hear is incredible what he's turned himself into from a dad who was in those conditions. So I think your mom was great, right? But you've sort of said, mom wasn't ever again completely herself after those situations, right? Then he goes into school, has a learning disabilities behind, because he wasn't going to school, kind of starts his lying and cheating to get his way through school. Studders. Studders. Studders.

My elementary years, I started so bad, I had these white splotches. All of a sudden, I had patches of hair falling out of my head. Out of stress? Stressed. I was so stressed out from my childhood. And then now, I'm in this situation where I'm like, God, man, I'm dumb. I'm not smart. And now, I'm like this black kid amongst all these white people. And it just made me feel just fucked up. And my mom was working three jobs. We lived in a $7 a month place.

She was never home. And I was like, so, but I didn't want to put my troubles on my mom before that my soon to be step that got murdered. One instant that really shocked my mind was it was Christmas. So picture everything I talked about. This is my seventh grade year. We're about to go out for, you know, so school, so, so Christmas breaks about to happen.

And so here we are, we had elementary to junior high that rode our bus. And we pulled up in front of the junior high school, and the bus let's out. But not yet. This kid who missed the bus, he missed the bus because he had some cookies for the bus driver. He goes over, and I tell the story, because this story, it fucked me up so bad. And this kid, mom, brought him to school. And I see them pull up, I'm in the back of the bus.

And I'm in the very back, right by the back wheel, facing the parking lot. The parking lot is probably 20 feet wide and 15 bus are lined up and we all open the bus doors the same time we all get out. So the kid, I see him, the mom yells over, you forgot something, he obviously forgot the cookies. He goes back, gets the cookies. I look forward, the bus moves forward maybe this much.

Next thing I know, I'm hearing this lady screaming, pop her lungs, pulling like at her hair, this yank at her hair, this screaming bloody murder. And I'm looking over at the same lady that called a little boy, like what the hell, and she's looking down under my tire.

And so I see these things on my window, and I don't know what they were, but they were like little spots. So you know how the old bus school, you know, the buses have little things you push and you pull them down. I push me, I look down, looking at her, and her face, her eyes are looking right down underneath my tire. And I'm like, what the hell is she looking at? So I look down, and this kid's head was this flat.

and his eyes were bugged out of his head. And I tell you that story because a year, almost exactly a year later, the same exact time frame. The day after Christmas, my mom soon to be step, my mom soon to step that got murdered.

So that, I try to bury that. And now my eighth grade year, he gets murdered. And so what happens, I had to bring you back here to set the tone for what happened here. I want to understand what the hell you just said. You're telling me in the seventh grade, you watched a young man get run over by the bus? I didn't see it. I saw the after. You saw the after of his. Oh my. And so what I did, so I got off the bus. And this is what curiosity does to you. This is the dumbest name of them in my life.

I'm walking now, so I have to go to the principal's office because I was like witness to this shit. So I'm in the principal's office sitting there and the one thing I did was I looked under the bus.

As I, so I see this and I look under the bus as I'm walking to the principal's office and I see these little kids' shoes. Now I'm telling this because this shit is, it's about PTSD and you know, so I already had it from my childhood. Now I'm in seventh grade and I see these little kids' shoes like this big, he was an elementary kid, just twisted in and I'm just like, what the fuck? And then nearly a year later, the day after Christmas,

A year later, my soon-to-be stepdad gets murdered and I tell you that because I slept on my floor for probably

I don't know, four months to six months. I was afraid of sleeping my bed for some reason. Don't know why. Some psychological fucking, but I'm painting this picture for you that you know where I was at. So one time in my Spanish class, we had all of our notebooks that stayed in the class.

So, you know, obviously your name's on it. You go get your notebook for a class. And I always sat back in the back of every class, man, because I just want to be still looking at me, don't call on me. I don't know shit. I opened my notebook up to the first page, and on it was a noose, like a little hangman noose, with me hanging from it with the same thing, nigga, we're going to kill you.

And this is in the 90s. This is the 90s. In 1995, the KKK marched in the 4th of July parade in Brazil, Indiana. Now, they weren't allowed to march, like, actually in the parade. They were allowed to march 100 or 200 feet behind it. My mom didn't know how bad my grades were. She never saw one report card.

I hit everything from, and she didn't ask. She was so bogged down with life. And so I got away with a lot of shit because her mind was occupied. So it made me, honestly, a weaker person. So I scammed life. My mom helped me scam life for a while. But this time, I couldn't scam life. I went the second time, took the Asbab test, failed it again. And a week later, she got a letter in the mail from my high school.

And I'm a junior in high school, and it later says pretty much your son's gonna flunk out. He's missed 25% of school, because she was always gone, so I didn't win school. He's gonna miss school. And so he's gonna flunk out. So I was exposed once again. My mom goes, well, she read the letter to me. She put my bed, and her best advice was guess what? You're gonna flunk out of school. That was it in the conversation. So this is when I developed my accountability mirror. And this is awesome.

I look in the mirror, and at this time, I didn't want to be the black kid in school. There's like five or six of us in school, and like, 1700 kids, and like that. And I made up a character.

to kind of like draw attention from color. And so what I did was I started to design haircuts. And one haircut I had was the old man. And I shaved my head up here just like this. You did this. I did this. And I would keep the hair on the side like old man has.

At one time, I shaved my whole head and had a reverse part. So I had hair up here, and it kind of zig-zag. So I did things to be this cool, crazy, kind of like creative kid. You know, like Chris Cross came out this time of time. I had a pantsag and my backwards. So my back pockets here. I had a toothbrush. I was crazy, man. But I was a crazy, cool kid in school.

So, I look in the fucking mirror, I see this letter, I'm fucked up, and I'm like, you know what man, no one's coming to help me. I remember back to what my principal said, I went to the principal when they wrote that shit on my car and in my notebook, and the best advice he can give me, God help his soul was this. They're ignorant. They spelled nigger niger.

And so that's, but honestly, I talked to the guy as I wrote my book and I have nothing wrong with Principal Freeman. He, he actually, I actually interviewed him for the book and he was happy interview. He was a good man. What the fuck? You could tell some black, you're a white guy in white society. We could, we could tell me. You could, you could shut down the fucking school and have a fucking day. So I started talking to myself this way in this mirror.

What the fuck is principal, at that time, this is the best you can fucking do principal freeman? That was my mind then, but in this mirror, it wasn't my mom, it wasn't principal freeman, it wasn't my dad, it was me. Because nobody coming back to fucking help David Gaga's, that was my mindset now. And so with my non-spelling ass, I started getting these sticky notes. And writing, you're fucked up. And my mom wakes up like, what is wrong with you?

I go, man, I have to change, because I can't stay here.

I can't, I lick myself in the mirror and I was defeated. I go, look at myself. I'm like, who am I? So I'm defeated in this mirror and I'm like, okay, I'm changing. I said, Mom, can we please get a tutor? So we can only afford $15 a week for a tutor. So I have four hours a month. Four hours a month. I had a fourth grade reading level, man. Four hours a month for six months. So I had. So this tutor did one thing for me, very big.

One second member, her damn name. But basically, she saw that I was slow, very slow, and couldn't retain shit. And I think she was joking. She says, you're gonna have to write down everything a thousand times for you, remember this. I took it as, okay. Literally. Roger that. So I literally went to the store and I bought these spiral notebooks. And I started literally writing down, let's say it's a math equation, the same fucking math equation.

over and over and over and over again when it came to a paragraph comprehension I couldn't read the fucking paragraph and then remember it so we have like I think 25 or 30 paragraph comprehension things

I had to write down the whole fucking thing, like a whole paragraph, and you don't have much time to take the fucking test. But that's how I learned. So how I learned the Navey Dive Man, it was like a thousand pages, Navey Dive Man, I got it a year in advance. Oh my gosh. And wrote the book out probably 14 times.

It's like the boy was law, child was law, gay lusac's law, doubt was law, all of these law, but over and over the whole manual. So it's not like, so now I've done that so many times I can go back in my mind and say okay, pay 71 was boy was law and I can go back in this.

And I'm looking at it right now, and I remember writing it down so many times that it takes me to say, okay, I got it, and I can write it down almost verbatim. So that's how I learned even to the day. But the work ethic, I had to, people think I became this guy from running. No, I became this guy from fucking studying. I had to study for hours. What might take you an hour to learn? Take me two days.

So that's where in this, at the table, at the table, and my best friend Johnny remembers me, like, God, you're like, you just changed. Something happened. I got obsessed. So I take the test. I score high. I get in the Air Force. And that's when I'm like, man, I'm going to be a prayer rescue man. And this is when I realized, man, I teach myself how to swim. I taught myself how to swim. But this is when I realized, man, that

I'm negative buoyant as hell. And there's a lot of things. So what gets people in special operations is the water. Not swimming, but the water conference. When they're like taking your air from you and your underwater panic, I was very uncomfortable. So long story short, I was there for six weeks.

I was moving on pretty well, second in my class, and I was getting through all the water confidence, but barely. But I wanted to quit every fucking night. I didn't go to sleep every night. Just paranoid the next day of getting back in that pool. So six months go by, we had this medical examination, and they draw my blood, and they say, you have sickle cell.

Sickle cells are a blood disease that some African-Americans have. Basically, if something happens in a stressful situation, stroke, heart attack, sudden death. This happened to a few African-Americans in the military. So they pulled me from training saying, you can't do this job.

And when you live a very stressed out life, like I was living, that's your norm. So not sleeping, being scared, that was my norm. I wouldn't go quit. But when they pull you out of training, and now I'm fucking comfortable. So now I'm seeing

My class of 24 guys, it was like 150. Now it's 24 guys. And they're in the pool, and I'm on the side of the pool. I'm not in the water now. I'm seeing what I was doing. I'm seeing these guys struggling, panicking in the water, like wanting to quit. And I'm like, fuck that. I'm not going. So now I'm comfortable. And I'm able to see now I'm not going back. So now my big dream being a pair of rescue men, I'm now seeing that do this.

I'm like, I want to get out of the Air Force. Wow. I don't even want to be in the fucking military. So this is what I'm saying. So I'm hoping now that this sickle cell thing is going to get me kicked out of the military. Because I'm like, OK, I don't go back in the fucking, I'm done. So I'm not getting happy. Because now I'm like, I won't quit. They're going to medically drop me from the course. This is great. I can keep my head up. I'll learn how to read, I'll learn how to write, I pass the ass vab test, but I'm fixing everything on the surface. I'm not going into the fucking dungeon.

So the doc calls up, I go back to the doctor, so I'm like skipping down there thinking I'm getting out of here man, medically discharged. He goes man you know what, you were doing good in your class and we don't really know, we don't know how you got this far with this, whatever, so guess what we're gonna do. We're gonna put you back in the train. I'm like fuck.

So I'm thinking now I'll have about a couple, you know, two and a half weeks left of training. I missed a week, a week and some chains. I'm going, you know what, great man. I have to suck this up, man. I can do this. So I'm trying to motivate myself all the way back to my CEO, my command officer, Sergeant Lumberg. I get to Sergeant Lumberg, Sergeant Lumberg looks at me and says, God, guys, man, that's great. You're back in the training.

You got to start from day one, because I'm at critical parts of training. I can't miss that many days. And I'm like, but I was a great liar. And I would look at a hardcore man and tell him that I just fucking quit. So I looked at him and said, Hey, you know what? Sorry, man. This sickle cell thing at the dock was talking about sudden death, stroke, heart attack. I can give up my sickle cell, but

The guy didn't know anything about it. I knew I was struggling. I knew I had some health issues, but I had thought because I was killing myself and what I was doing. He said, you're right, man. I wouldn't want to do that either. So he gave me a medical.

out of pair rescue. And he said, when we figure this out more, we'll have you come back. I won't ever go back. I'm like, I never, I'm never getting back in the fucking water again, but I was able to leave on a medical. I quit. I quit. Why do you admit it? Why do you, why do you tell this? I have to because everybody thinks I'm the world's toughest motherfucker ever lived. And I might be somewhere about that now.

But that's where I was. And I tell the story, because if I just talk about, I broke the pull-up record, I did all these fucking races, I went through Siltram with you, I was in three hell weeks, Ranger school. If I talk about all the badassery, like we like doing social fucking media, and I don't tell you that I was a fucked up kid, and I was scared of shit, and I was depressed and insecure, and all this shit,

What good am I for anybody? I'm a superhero. I'm a liar.

I'm not now, but I wasn't born that. I had to make myself into this shit. It's amazing to me that you won't accept it this way, but like this military icon, but not really like a social icon, too. Like when people aspire to be tough and mentally tough, I mean, there are UFC fighters that when they win fights now, quote you in their post conference interviews. I don't even know if you know that or not, but like, I watch it, they're like, Goggin says, you know, seriously. So that guy,

kind of bullshits his way out of the military. That's staggering. And then that guy, if you don't want me jumping ahead a little bit, then that guy ends up kind of living in an apartment, gains a ton of weight, gets up to almost 300 pounds.

Killing cockroaches as an exterminator. This is just crazy where we're gonna go right now So and then what we're gonna go after that's even more bananas, but go ahead jump back So it's funny though though, so I I got a pair of rescue so I go to job called tack P Just real quick about that. So great fucking job with the best job as a military But I'm all poopy past knock. I'm not pair rescuing something attack piece some weak-ass motherfuckers right tack P right del Toro

is one of the best fucking jobs in the world. But my mind, once again, has me shackled, and I'm thinking, I'm not a pair of rescuers, so I'm like, you know, I'm, tag people's a great job, I had great friends in it, and I did it pretty well, but I couldn't,

been so much better. My mind was once again hijacking me. So I get out, but from the time from 1994 to 1999 or 1998, I go from 175 pounds to 297. Not much education.

Four and a half years in the military, I started spraying for cockroaches and making $1,000 a month. And I only had an $810 apartment. So I'm scrounging dude. And so my life is hard. But fuck it, I'm spraying for cockroach from 11 o'clock at night, 7 o'clock in the morning, and that's my life.

But once again, man, you can't lie to yourself. I can lie to you. I can lie to everybody else. And I was great at it. But every fucking day in that dirty mirror, that accountability mirror was no more. Fuck that accountability mirror. Let's just shake my head and go to work. But I saw my reflection every day. But I really didn't know how fat I was. I didn't even want to look at myself. But I was haunted.

The demons were in my head every day, man. You ain't shit, man. God dawg, man. You wear this fucking uniform. You're getting your fucking eco-lab truck. You're gonna spray for cockroaches. You fucking go in the kitchens. You eat your fucking brownies and shit in the back kitchen. You make shakes and shit while you're in there, man. I was like, fuck, man.

I come home and I never forget it. I used to spray down Steak and Shake. My last stop at about 6.30 at night or 6.30 in the morning, I was pronounced Steak and Shake and they had this big large shake. They gave me a special cup and they just dumped the fucking chocolate milk shake in there and I go across the street at 7.11 at a 45 minute commute home.

And I would be, and I'd go over to 7-Eleven and get these chocolate donuts, like the mini hostess donuts. And I was popping them like fucking tic-tacs, dude. You know, I eat it, I just fucking pop it, boom. Just fucking, it's me driving, listening to the radio, popping them like tic-tacs, drinking the shake. So by the time I got home, that box of donuts was gone. My mom lived about two miles down the road, cause she moved to Indianapolis, Indiana now.

So what would happen is this, so I would eat that, and my routine was this, shit you not, my breakfast was not that. That was my snack for my 45, so my mom, and this is no fucking shit. My breakfast, you know those fucking Pillsbury Cinderoles, you got the five, you got the eight, I had the eight. So you had the eight, she baked that shit, and then it was seven to eight scrambled eggs hard,

and half a pound of bacon well done, and I would chase that motherfucker down with fruity pebbles, two balls, or fruit, something sugary. That was my breakfast after the fucking doughnuts and the shake. So this day though, I get home, call my mom up on the phone, she goes, you want your staple?

I'm like, hell yeah, I'm a fucking stater, you know? And that's how I talk to my mom. Me and my mom came with some fucked up shit. Who, man, why are you customers? Because my life wasn't easy. So I'm like, I said, it's sugar-coated for me. So my mom cusses at me because we have great relationship. OK, great, come over.

And so, at this time, my routine was to come home, turn the TV on, listen to the TV, like, Blair, because, like, like, literally, I had this big living room, and my shower was, like, back down the hallway. So I turned the TV on, like, Blair TV, and kind of, like, listen to it a little bit as I showered. I'm hearing Navy SEAL. Heard a bottom, knew a bottom, but now I want to come out and see what the fuck I'm talking about. I got her world's toughest.

So I come out and watch this documentary. I have my towel, and I have my straight down on the counter. I have this little fucking TV in this huge living room. So I'm looking at the TV and I'm leaning forward. And I'm watching this shit. And it pretty much goes through first phase, second phase, and third phase. But they concentrate on hill week. But all I saw was the Pacific Ocean.

Right water again, dude. I saw nothing but water more water than pear rescue And these guys are like going from this big class to this it shows him quitting and I see nothing but this jackhammer guys It's not bubbles and just rolling around sugar cookies in out of surf and carrying these boats and laws I'm like fuck that shit looks evil but guys as they quit I saw like

They're so leaving their bodies almost on screen because this look came over them. And I imagined, I remember myself back in Pear Rescue Training, I bet that's how I fucking looked in front of that fucking Sergeant Lumberg and I bet he could see in my eyes that I was basically quitting. He knew I was quitting. He just gave me a medical. I'm a fucking knew it. As a man, look at that another man, you know when the man's done.

And I'm like, I thought about Sergeant, I said, motherfucker knew I was quick dude. He saved me and he didn't want to tell me. I was like, he ain't doing it. Cause I can look at somebody now and say, okay, dude, you're good. But I know you're quitting. It ain't your fucking knee or your back or whatever. You're quitting. He saw that in me and I said, motherfucker man. So now I'm watching these guys go through training and it goes down to 22 guys are left.

And it was amazing how it ended. Because these words, I don't know them exactly, but it's in my book exactly. And this command officers at graduation, and these 22 guys graduate buds, seal training. And his command officers is just whites. He's up there, some old skinny fucking commander, fucking, but you could tell he's been through the shit. Salty looking motherfucker.

And he's looking hard, and his speech was amazing. He goes, we live in a society where mediocrity is often rewarded. And he looked down to the 22 men, and he says something about basically you all to test mediocrity. And he goes on to talk about this mediocrity and shit. And I just sat back and I said, God, man, I just want to be like these motherfuckers. Now I was projecting myself in those chairs. How do y'all feel?

like right now. Now, I want to feel like you do. You 22, man. I want to feel like that, man. I said, I'm tired of feeling the way I feel every day. I'm tired of how I feel tired of lying to myself, lying to people and it's being some piece of shit. And I always knew in the back of my mind, I could be something special. Yes.

But I knew the work it was going to take was going to kill me. I was afraid of that. I was afraid of the brutality and the suffering I was going to have to endure. But I knew I knew I could do something. But I'm like, I ain't trying to do that kind of work, man. I'm just not trying to do that. So I chose the path of the easy, of least resistance.

So now my idea is it became so haunting and daunting on me myself. That I said, I'm done. I'm fucking done. And I thought I fixed myself in the accountability mirror with my mom, put the letter down on the bed. No. So now, at this point, I actually drive back to Buffalo, New York to see my dad. Haven't seen him in years. I've never heard this part. And no one knows about this. I didn't even put this in the book even.

So before I start this journey being Navy SEAL, I go back to see my dad because I realize now I gotta fix some shit. I'm blaming everything. I gotta go back. You know how a lot of times you're like, if you're a runner, your right knee may hurt, but it's not your right knee that hurts, it's where you left hip. But we're constraining on the right knee. I'm constraining on my shit.

But I need to go back to the root of the problem, which is my dad. I got to face the demon. I got to go back and see what made him so fucked up to make me so fucked up. Why am I fucked up? So I go back and I go back as an older man now. I'm in my 20s. I'm not a kid anymore. And I want to see this man and face him as a grown man.

But still as a kid in my head, I was still a kid, but I was a grown man as my age. And I went back and I realized he was the same man that he was. Still the same. Still the same. And I talked to him, he was still nuts. And I had to go back and face that one more time, but to face it in a different way. How'd you do it different?

I looked at him in a way, we never said sorry to one another, and he went off about my mom and my grandparents and all kind of shit, but I looked at him in a way that I realize now why you fucked this up. I had to almost be him to realize it's okay, brother. It's okay, because I realized that somewhere in your fucking life, something fucked you up, and you didn't deal with it.

And so you put that shit on me, my mom and everybody around you, I'm gonna deal with my shit. So even though you gave me all this shit, you gave me a satchel of shit that I didn't deserve and now I'm all fucked up and people think I'm a fucking liar and I'm all fucked up, you gave me this. You created this fucking nightmare of Goggins. I'm gonna fix it though.

So now I get it, I look at, and this one's sitting in my head. What's my favorite thing you've ever said right now? And I love all of it, but that's my favorite thing I've never heard that. I want to fix it now. So I will take it. I take all this shit. It's mine. I want to fix all this shit. But I know to fix it, people want to find peace immediately. And this is where people don't like me.

I don't believe that shit. You ain't gonna find it through fucking yoga and all this other bullshit. I stretch out a lot and I believe in yoga and all this is great, but you ain't gonna find it in some fucking room. You're gonna find peace from going to war with yourself. We all got shit. We all got shit. People look at me. The reason why my story resonates with people is because I don't hide.

I'll tell you exactly the fuck I am, I will admit to it, people are great at hiding. So they want to just find peace. No, you gotta take your shit, fix where it's fucked up in you, don't just shove it on the rug, fix it, and then you'll find some peace later.

That was a great conversation, and if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed My Let Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Tim Grover, welcome back to the show, brother. Thank you so much. So let's take Kobe and Jordan, the two physically phenomenally gifted dudes.

mixed with all the things that you have in the book about winning. Like if you want to think like Kobe Bryant and what Tim Grover did, we're going to read the book. If you want to think like MJ and the things that you learned from MJ and then that you took to another level, read the book, right? Did you ever work with a guy, don't say who? I know you wouldn't. But did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of the two of them that just lacked these things and so as a result we don't know who they are?

really as physically gifted even more wow even wow more they were by far not my most physically gifted athletes I work with athletes that were jumped higher than MJ who ran faster who had better footwork than Kobe but they Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant were not the two most physically gifted athletes you've worked with no

Whoa. Okay. And then so when you would work with these guys and you'd be pushing them and training, there was a different resistance or fatigue or how was it different? You know what? And how many times have you had people come up to you and says, how do anything to get where you're at? Right. All the time. Or I'll do anything to work for you until you tell them what your definition of anything is.

Your definition of anything is different than my definition of anything. I'll have an athlete. It's very simple. When I first start with them, when I was training numerous, I said, what time do you first work? I'd say 3.30. I'll be like, OK. It's 3.30 AM. I wouldn't tell them AM or PM. I'd tell them 3.30. So where's myself, my staff, we're sitting at, waiting.

Because, you know, winning doesn't sleep and it doesn't understand why you do. That's awesome. So, we come back and we go that they roll in the gym about 3, 3, 30. Like, what are you doing here? They're like, you said 3, 30. No, no. I said, you got the wrong time. And I said, when does a new day start? And they look at me and he goes, you know, I said, no, the new day starts.

at 12 midnight. That's right. That's a new day. Mm-hmm. All right. What are you waiting for? Mm-hmm. And even if you tell them, hey, MJ did this, Kobe did this. If they don't have it, they don't have it. They don't have it. You think it's a lack of obsession? Like, you said, you've referenced a couple times, like, sleep at night. Your bed doesn't sleep and all that. One of the things that I'll be honest with is a lot in the book that hit me. You guys go get the book, winning Tim Grover, real simple. Get it anywhere books are sold.

There's this part of the book, man, like it almost made me cry audibly reading it, but I did get water in my eyes and I'm gonna get water even explaining it to you, where you're talking about being asleep and that you get these visitors at night. And I know those visitors very, very well. I have them too. It's attached to my obsessions. And I don't think the average person who wants to really win understands the extent and degree of obsession required.

So, can you elaborate on that visitors that you get at night? Everybody thinks obsession is a bad word. It's not. I love to use the people like, you're a great example. Ed, why? Why keep going? Look at the house. Not only this house, the other house, and the other house, and the plane.

And if people pay very close attention to what was just said, probably about 20 minutes ago, what did you say? I don't consider myself a winner. That's obsession. That's obsession. And I love to use your plane story as an example. You went from a very nice-sized plane.

to even a bigger plane, but it's still not your 747. That's an obsession. That's a healthy obsession. That's what gets you out of bed. That's what allows you to, when you get out of bed,

When all the skeletons are lined up next to you and telling you, you can't do this. You're not able to do this. You're not able to do this. You get up every single morning and you shake their hands and give them a hug and say, yeah, we got for me tonight. Exactly. I got you. You're a part of me. You're a part of me. And people put something. It's funny. Winners bring all of them wherever they go.

And most individuals, the best part of them, the thing that allows them to win, the thing that allows them to be obsessive, the thing that allows them not to care what other people think, the things that allow them to deal with hatred, the things that keep them going when nothing else will, they keep in the closets. The best part of them, they keep in there because they're worried what are people going to think about me if I let those things out.

I always say this, all right. Everyone says, I'm afraid to become that person. You should be more afraid not to become that person. You're afraid not to become that person. You're a big thing about me. I want to, at the end of the journey, I want to meet my better half and say, hey,

What did you leave behind or I was like, hey, this is the person. Shake hands with them. Shake hands with them. If you can't become that person, you're never gonna be able to shake that person's hand. Yeah, I'd much rather, I live in more fear of, I live in way more fear of not becoming that person than I am about not trying to be him big time. But I do have, I wanna stay on this for a minute, I get these visitors at night too that you get.

I don't want people to think that winning is all like Rosie and Glory and beautiful. It's nothing. It's really not. And I'm not even, you have to know this. Here's the real, I've never said this on the show. You have to really know these truths so that you can actually decide you still want to win, right? Because what does come with becoming this way now at 50 and you're 56 or 56? 56, you look great.

I've had 50 years of having these visitors in my life. And they're not going away at.

That's what everybody wants to do. The people just want to sweep them under the rug. They want to keep them in the closet. They don't want to talk about them. That's what makes you successful. That's what makes you special. That's what makes you different. And what do we say? Different scares people. Winners and winning scares people. And they don't want to win because of that. They're trying to win. They're trying to balance. They're trying to fit in.

What do winners do? Very few of them have balance in their life. Maybe after they become successful, they try to balance a little bit more. There is no balance early. They don't care what other people think. They're extremely obsessive. They know it.

And they don't mind telling you that they're chasing the next win because that's what fuels them. But when people come to you and say, you've had enough, why? Slow down, slow down, unwind.

I don't know about you. I do know about you. I should say that. We are at our most uncomfortable when people tell us to unwind. We like to be wound up. That's like a part of that. We have our unique ways of unwinding. We don't need anybody to tell us to unwind.

My favorite way of unwinding is having some tequila with a buddy of mine who's another winner and talking about doing more winning I was on Andy's show and I said winning is more fun than fun is fun I remember that and I just really believe that like actually what I like like I like the pursuit of winning I like the I like I like that I sincerely don't

feel that way about myself because I'm scared if I did like I'm scared of these visitors that I have are my fears my worries my hopes my thoughts my skeletons yeah you know they take all those forms they take all those forms and you don't know what form they're gonna take that night and you know what they're gonna sit at you with the table they're all

They're not gonna, I put this in a book. When you travel, those skeletons are traveling with you on the plane. They're my constant companion. All the time. And if you notice, everyone looks at you and you fly on that plane alone. I have said, Ed's never been on that plane alone. It's true. It's true. He's never been on that plane alone. They're with me all the time. All the time. And you know what? When they look at his tequila bottles on the thing and they're finished, that's because they're drinking the best stuff also.

I wonder if he was drinking all that stuff, man. Stuff gets expensive. I just love this because this is the realest conversation I've ever had about winning, and it's the realest book about it. This isn't one of these Pollyanna things. It's not all rosy. No, there's a lot of it that sucks. Unless you want to sign up, and by the way, I don't know if you feel that. I'm actually cool if you don't.

Like if you actually said, hey, I don't want all that stuff. I don't want to. I mean, I don't relate to you. I'm not going to hang out with you. You're not my kind of people. But I'd actually admire somebody who says, I won't do these things that are in this book. And I know I'm not going to win. Rather than say, I want to win and do none of the things that are in the book. The people that can admit it, they've already won.

The people that said, this ain't for me. This ain't for me. They know exactly who they are. I'm good. I'm good. Most people will settle for good. Most people will settle for okay. All right. Very few people will settle for great. Very few people will settle for unstoppable. Very few people will settle for winning. I break things down three different ways. So look at this. And I didn't even put this in a book, but I want to share this with you.

You have individuals that compete. Everybody competes. You know that. You play golf. You love golf. Sure. You go out and your golfing partner, I don't know, puts his real name. Your real name is Kelly Gwen. We call him Richard Kebesa. Yes. Dick Kebesa is head in Spanish. I got it. Everyone that's wondering what that's his name, because half the people don't know, that's what Richard Kebesa is. Right, everybody knows him. He's going to be signing autographs. He does. He goes down to people like, I love you with my Latin man. Can I get you? He's had people take pictures with him.

That's awesome. And I'll get into it a little bit later about that. But there's people that compete. Everybody knows how to compete at something. And for most people, when they compete, they want to just finish. That's their way. They just want to finish. Now to me, if you're that level person, is that finish going to lead to another win? It might be in something else. If you're going to run a marathon,

All right, and you're not one of these top, a lead marathon, right? You're not gonna win the marathon. You're not gonna win. But you have a mindset to say, hey, I'm gonna finish this marathon. Now, is that, when you finish that marathon, what else is it setting you up for? But there's people that go in there, they're just happy, they're just happy competing, they're just happy finishing, they're just happy to be in the race. Then you have people that win, like once. They win once.

And how many individuals do you know? And you probably don't, well, I shouldn't say this. I said, you know, not associate where there's a big difference that keep telling you about that win over and over again, no matter how long it's been. Yeah, factoid. All right. I got it, man. You were quarterback in high school. Yes. I got it. You got your master. So I got it. I got it. All right. Then you have individuals that win at winning.

That's really good. They went at winning. So they went over and over and over again. You think it's all it's cracked up to be? No. But we don't know any other way. Best answer of all time. Very something. Everybody, we don't know any other way. Best answer of all time. We can't accept it any other way. We just can't.

I wrote a best-selling book. I didn't have to do another book. You wrote a best-selling book. You have another book coming out. You don't have to do any of this. But if you didn't,

That would be more detrimental to you. You don't know any other way. You just don't. You think that, by the way, I'm loving this, just so you know, because I know people that might be listening to you, this is a little bit dark, like a welcome to winning.

That's why you see so many people. I watched Nick Saban after he wins these national championships. He's gotten a little bit better out at the last couple of years. Did you notice this? Yeah, just a little bit. Like 1% better. You know what? Either his wife or some of his family. He's talking to the least smile for the interview after. Right? We can get back to work tonight. But you watch these prolific winners. So I did love to watch

MJ celebrate that win in the evening that he won right or you know the few times I saw Kobe actually celebrate the win But I know the next day they're back to work I watch a Saban and like for years he'd win these national championships and you could already see the grimace on his face for the next year in the postgame interview. Yes

Right? And like, I think people look at it. They go, well, Denizi, and I think, to your answer, you're right. Like, people say, well, is he really enjoying this? Yes, and he knows no other way. So maybe it's not all. I wonder if you ask, is it all what's cracked up to be? I think some people might say, no, but it's all I know. And it's better than the alternative of living with losing the rest of my life or not trying. Yes. Right? There's a reason it's lonely at the top. And it's not because

you want to be surrounded with other individuals. That's not the part people when they talk, but it's lonely at the top.

It's alone because nobody understands what's going on in here of what you went after you've just won. What you went through and you're already thinking about the next. You're already thinking about the next and people can't comprehend that. And there's people whispering in your ear and they're saying, enjoy it. By the time they say enjoy it, you did enjoy it. If you're already thinking,

Yeah, do you think it's that I'm just thinking right now I'm asking you this because you watched this and you've done it in your own life like You've you you've had two careers. You've had a career where you helped which you still do where you help other people win and Then there became this point in your life where you became you were individually winning as a speaker as a coach as a writer It's an interesting thing to watch with you. You were the behind the scenes guy Then you weren't the behind the scenes guy. Do you think that?

It's like a dopamine thing, like when they win, like they're already, they have to get another one, like it's an addiction. Do you think winning becomes an addiction? It is an addiction, and the only place where you can get that high again is the black market in your mind. It's the only place.

Because you only know where that entrance is. You only know where that hit is. You only know what that drug is. And here's a crazy part about it. The next win has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to constantly keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So true.

It sounds like a sickness when you're listening to this, but I actually think it's beautiful. I actually think you were born to win, and you learn over a lifetime how not to. As a child, don't do this. Sit down. Be a good boy. Get in your place. Do this. Then the world starts treating you, and I think you move further and further away from your own nature.

I think we were born to win. We were born to do something great with our life. I really, I know that's a saying to me. And I feel a sadness when I meet somebody who's accepted a life of not winning. By the way, I'm cool with it. It's okay. I'm not judging you. But as someone who wants to pursue that expression of myself or that,

I just wonder what I would be like, you know, if I could, what it would be like, what I would be like if I could get to the next level. I'm fascinated with, like, I think the people that I really like enjoy, they're a curious people. Like, I want the next experience. I don't want to live in the previous experience like that guy. I was like, hey, you know, I made a million dollars in 2009 and it was like in the mortgage boom or the crash or whatever. I'm not really interested in living in those times.

You're not, because it's always about what's next. It's always about constantly staying in the rain. It's constantly about changing your mindset. The language of winning for people that win is completely different than the language of winning from other individuals. No. You sit here and you talk to people and they describe, when I talk to all my athletes, I said, describe winning in one word to me.

And everybody would think about, you know, they would be like, it's happy, it's euphoric, it's all those things, and it is. But those constant winners, their answers were, it's unpolished. It's uncivilized. It's nasty. It's hard. It's dirty. It's unforgiving. And then Kobe comes up and says, it's everything.

It's everything. And if you think about it, and very few people are genuine about this. And you know the ones that are, and you know the ones that aren't. How do you feel when somebody's really close to you? And they win. It's unbelievable feeling. Unbelievable feeling. How do you feel when you win? It's unbelievable feeling. Even though it's short-lived. How do you feel when your kids win?

It's unbelievable. All right. That feeling is everything. It is everything. That feeling is everything. It's amazing you just said that. I'm reading the book last night, and I call my wife about halfway through the book. Because when you read your work, even in the first book, you talk about in this book, the most controversial part of the first book was the dark side. Yes.

You talk about it in this book. And then when you're reading this, you're like, this winning thing's mean. This winning thing's unforgiving. This winning thing doesn't give a shit if you sleep. This winning thing doesn't care, right? Like you go through, you're like, she, this is almost. And if you're not careful, guys, you would think, because this is truth, it flies in the face, everything you always hear.

but you would think that it's not something that you really want. And the evidence of it, I said to my wife last, I said, the evidence that you know winning is where you belong is how happy you are when you see your children doing it if you have children. When your children win a spelling bee or get straight A's or hit a home run or win a golf tournament or do anything exceptional, the amount of joy you feel and pride when they win, I have a feeling that that's how God feels when he sees one of his children win. And I think this is something we all miss

that it is a grind, it is difficult, but if you ever wonder whether you belong winning and that's the path you should pursue, just ask yourself a question about your children if you have them or your parents or anybody that you love and care about when they win, how do you feel for them? I literally said this last night.

So I've heard you speak numerous times, and people don't know about this, like when we're on the stage together at the same event, I'll stay just to hear you speak. Mike's first, as you know. You know, I will stay. The last time I heard you speak was at an event, and you were talking about a golf tournament you were with with your son. With Max, yeah. With Max.

Yeah, it went from playing golf to winning. Yes. That was the decision. Like to your point, like your book. And by the way, I've said this early in the interview. Little words from people, a caring statement, a little bit of access to some information. And I've said this many times, you said it to you, but like, I thank you because, you know, I've had people say, oh, your son gets all your stuff. And yeah, he also has talked to Grover.

He's also talked to Grover. And just so you guys know, I really truly believe that one of the reasons that my son is excelling is you. And your information, little whispers, you get a little direct message, a little text message, a little access to a call that you've done for my son. And I think that's the other thing that people don't know. Winners are generous.

Extremely generous. Extreme. You know why? Because they're truthful. They tell you how it is. It's not rainbows. It's not unicorns. It's not sprinkles. This is what it takes. This is what it takes.

And other people, they don't wanna, we talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about. Does that make us bad people? In many people's eyes, it does, but it also where the few people that are gonna hold your accountable, we're gonna tell you the truth, and people are gonna say, you know what, everybody else sugar-coated it, these individuals told me exactly how this, that's what the book winning is about.

I don't want people to think that it's all this thing. If you read the last chapter of the book, it kind of ties everything in and it explains why winners go through this journey.

Why they go through this journey because I have this thing is like everyone talks about it's the journey. It's journey. It's not the destination. Well, to me, why the hell are you taking a journey? If you don't know where the destination is, what are you just aimlessly going to be running around? All right. Every time.

When you get on your plane, or you get in your car, you know exactly, you're going from here to here. Now, you may have to take a detour to go somewhere else to do whatever you're doing, but you're like, this is where we're going. You had a post a couple of days ago, man, it's nice to own a jet because all of a sudden I got to go wherever your destination was.

I'm fired up about today's show because we're getting right into what it takes to win. And that is this, write this down, one more, one more. See, I accepted a long time ago, I wasn't the smartest, the best looking, the fast enough with the best background, the most connections. I didn't have any of those things. What I could control was my work ethic. You've heard me speak many times about outworking everybody, but I think that just feels good when we hear it.

But most people don't take it seriously. If you think that I have a little bit of success in my life, I can tell you what I attribute it to. Yes, self-confidence, yes mindset, visualization, goals, all the things I talk about all the time. Listening skills, influence, energy transfer, how to be happier, all of that stuff applies. When you get to winning,

For me, it's come down to maxing out. And what maxing out means is you do one more at least than you think you're capable of. So when you're done, whatever you're doing, whether it's at the gym or phone calls or meetings or in sports, one more shot, one more throw, one more swing of the golf club or the baseball bat,

The separator is for the winners. They do one more. I'm addicted to one more. And so I want your mantra going forward to be one more. What does that look like if we're working out? That means when we're in the gym and we say, I'm going to do five sets of 10, I'm crazy. Like I'm a psycho because I want to win. I want to be somebody. I want to separate.

I want to compete. And the way I do that isn't with my giftedness, because I wasn't born with a bunch of gifts. And I think gifts are crap. I think for the most part, gifted people struggle in life because things come easy to them. I like that things haven't come easy for me in my life. I like they don't have natural talents in every area. And maybe you like that about you too. Maybe you've looked at yourself all your life and thought, man, I don't have that natural beauty or that natural talent or this gift for creativity or intellect or humor.

I don't have any of those things. But what I got is I will outwork you. And so at the gym, one of the things I focus on, they say it's five sets of 10. When I'm at 10, I go one more, bam, 11. If I'm running on the treadmill and it's a 45 minute run, I never finish at 45. I always go one more minute, 46.

If I'm at the office and I'm supposed to make 25 phone calls that day, when I'm at the end of the day, I always do one more. If I've got meetings, I always do one more. My mantra for three decades in business has been one more. Why? Because we get out of life what we think we deserve.

And I'm the kind of guy that I know when you do 45 minutes on the treadmill and I do 46, I deserve to be fitter. I know that when I'm lifting weights and I watch you do five sets of 10 and every single time I do one more. When it's a set of five, I do six. When it's a set of eight, I do nine. When it's 45 on the treadmill, I do 46. When it's supposed to be 20 phone calls, I make 21.

When it's supposed to be an eight hour work day, I work nine. Whatever it is, I always do one more. And what that does is it makes me eventually think I'm doing things other people aren't willing to do.

So I should get things other people aren't gonna get. And if you go to the root of the things I believe philosophically about winning, the people that win the great athletes that I coach, when I watch the really gifted golfer and the one who actually wins the gifted golfer, they do what they're supposed to do. You never know they weren't working on it. It's not like people don't work hard. Everybody works hard. That's a given now. But what's the separator to where you become the maxed out version of you?

See the gifted golfer, they hit their 100 balls because they're supposed to, but the not so gifted one that ends up winning, they hit 101 or 110 or 120. I watched them on the driving range and they can hear them say one more, one more. What's the difference between Kobe Bryant and other gifted NBA players when he played or Michael Jordan?

when they play or right now kevin derrant people tell me it or steff curry they're constantly when everyone else is done shooting in the gym they say one more larry bird was legendary for one more one more the people that would throw the but passes to him the ball guys in practice he always wants more he always wants more

The great hitters that I know, the Mike Troughts and MLB, they're gifted, but they just take a little more. They take that extra batting practice, that extra session. They're always doing extra. That's the separator. You can learn all this stuff. You can digest all the tactics and information that I give out, but if you're not willing to do one more, eventually there's a part of you that says, maybe, maybe I don't deserve it.

I'm just doing what everybody else is doing. And that's not good enough. It's not even good enough to do more than everybody else. It's your maxed out level. It's one more of everything. And so whether that's a phone call, an email, a text, an appointment. One more time you tell your spouse you love them. One more time you go in and kiss your children good night. One more hug of somebody. One more phone call. One more everything. I want your theme to be one more. Have I said that enough times for you today?

So what's that really look like an application? Well, the second thing it does for you is you actually do more reps of whatever it is you're doing. And when we do more repetitions, we get better. And when we do more repetitions, we're more productive. So number one is the psychology part. If you're someone who's always doing things, other people aren't willing to do. You always max out. You always go to the next level.

You convince yourself you deserve to win. You can take low self-esteem, low identity, low confidence, and change it over time by building this habitual addiction to doing one more, this obsession of one more. All the greats do one more and all the average don't. It's not that the average don't work hard. It's not that the average at your company, they don't, it's something they don't work hard. They probably work pretty hard, but do they always do

Do they always do one more? Do they always do 10 more if they need to? Do they always get after it? The other part of it, number two, is you just get better because of the reps. You're just doing more of something. You get better. You get stronger. You become a better phone caller when you make one more phone call every day. You become a better communicator when you do one more meeting every single day. You get better at coordination in your sport or at the gym by just doing more reps. Yes, you get better. So that's the second layer. But the third one is,

You stack the odds in your favor. See, for me, I want the odds that I'm going to win to increase the larger numbers we play in life in every area. More is always better. People tell you more isn't always better and almost everything more is better. Just so you know.

and almost everything. People who tell you more isn't better and most things are lazy. And they try to justify their own weakness. Don't let people who are justifying their own weakness convince you that you work in hard, you doing more isn't the pathway to your success. People say, well, you got to work smarter, not harder. That's a lie because everybody who wins works smarter. The separator is who works harder. And by the way, we become smarter through working harder.

All the new revelations, all the breakthroughs, all the new discoveries always come when you're doing one more. Always come through more repetitions. You find new ways, new strategies, new words, new keys by higher repetitions. So even if you believe working smarter is more important, you will become smarter by doing more. So if you work 300 days a year, let's just say 300 days a year,

That's 300 more phone calls every single year. Over five years, that's 1,500 more contacts. 1,500 more contacts. Just think about that just for a second. Over 30 years, that's 9,000 more contacts. What are the odds the person who makes 9,000 more contacts or even 300 more a year are gonna win? You give me two average people that walk in a room. Same ability, same skills, same backgrounds, same product. One of them makes 300 more contacts here. The other one, who's gonna win?

We know how about over five years one of them makes 1500 more contacts over five years who's gonna win over a lifetime 30 years of work one makes 9,000 more contacts Who's gonna win you stack the odds in your favor? Never mind the person who'd made the 9,000 more contacts is better

They've got more reps, they've got more confidence, they believe they deserve to win. They just have 9,000 more opportunities. How about a golfer? One of them makes 300 more swings a year, a year. And that's just one more swing a day, right? And over five years, 1500 more, 9,000 over a lifetime. Who's more likely to win? So you pick anything you want, you begin to stack the odds in your favor. How about at the gym? If every day you win one more minute in your cardio. So it's supposed to be 45, you do 46. Do you know what that starts to do to you? You start knowing you're different.

You start knowing you obliterate standards. You start knowing you can break through. When you break through an artificial barrier like 45 minutes, you do one more. It sets a catalyst for your entire day. It sets a syntax. It sets a mindset for the rest of your life. Never mind the fact that if you do 300 more minutes, which is 9,000 more over your lifetime, who's going to be more fit? So you begin to stack these things and your entire life changes.

This is what I like to call compound pounding. Most people underestimate what time can do when backed up with massive activity. Right as I'm speaking to you, I'm looking out at the ocean right now and there's a massive rock formation and you can see the rivets and the rocks and what caused those rivets and the rocks was compound pounding of the ocean hitting that rock over and over and over again.

over and over compound pounding against that rock. And over time that ocean breaks the rock down over time, where you can see the breakdown in a rock that water does hitting it. Think about that over time. Not one time when the water hits it, not two times, not five times. When you add up years and years and years of that water hitting the rock, it breaks it down.

And that's like getting through to your dream. You have to be like that water hitting the rock I'm staring at right now that over time that compound pounding breaks down the barriers, breaks down the obstacles, breaks down anything in your way of getting to your dream. So I'm sold out on all the strategies and tactics that I teach you. But what I believe in completely is the power of compound pounding. And here's the crazy thing about most people. They will give up on their dream.

before the compounding has been allowed to kick in. So the work at it, and the work at it, and the work at it, and they don't see the breakthrough. But what they don't understand is that rock was getting ready to break if you just keep pounding against it. But because most people don't see the evidence, see if you watch that water hit that rock over one day, you're gonna see no difference.

Two days, no difference. Five days, no difference. Maybe even a year. There's no difference. Maybe even five years. But you have the compound pounding of every wave hitting that rock over and over again. There's an inevitability to the breakdown of the rock.

That's true of your goals and dreams as well. There's an inevitability to success. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when when we adopt one more, when we adopt compound pounding. Do you know the kind of confidence you begin to have when you just accept in your life that I am going to be relentless? I'm always gonna do extra. And you accept the fact that all things break down over time. All the barriers will go away. All the obstacles will go away. Everything in your way

will go away if you keep after it over an extended period of time. Most people overestimate what they can do in a year. They do. They set up goals for a year and they overestimate where they're going to get to. And they dramatically underestimate what they can do in a decade. And the reason for that is most people don't understand the power of compound pounding. So I want you to accept today that you're going to be relentless, that you're going to keep coming, that you're like a dripping faucet.

You're like those waves hitting the rock. Other people are gonna get slowed down. Other people are gonna take a break. Other people are gonna flinch. Other people are gonna cool it. Other people are gonna believe they've made it. Or maybe some people are gonna believe they can't make it. But you're gonna be relentless. You're gonna be repetitious. You may not be the fastest. You may not be the smartest. You may not be the strongest. You may not be the most beautiful. You may not have the most articulate thoughts and ideas in the world. But what you got is compound pounding. What you got is one more. And when they get weak, you just keep complimenting. When they flinch, you blow their doors off.

That's how you win in life is you keep getting after it and keep getting it after it until the job gets done. So a lot of people can be excited for a day. They can be excited for a month. Some people can be excited for a year or two or three years. But the winners, they stay excited as long as it takes to get the job done. They keep after it until the job gets done. They never stop. They're always after it. And that's where their strength comes from. That's where their confidence comes from.

is knowing their capacity to keep coming at you and that all your competition is going to get weak, they're going to get tired, they're going to surrender, they're going to give in, they're going to think they made it, they're going to take a break, they're going to cool it and you just keep coming. It's just nature, just like the nature of the ocean against that rock, it's just nature.

that you run down your dream, that you knock down your dream. I want you to implement all the things that I teach on max out, all the tactics, all the strategies, but more than anything, I want you to buy into the fact of an inevitability of you winning, that it's inevitable that it might not be a year or two years or three years, but you're going to stay excited and you're going to keep doing one more until the job gets done. Today's message is very simple. You can win.

You should win and you will win. I want you to feel this. You will win if you just keep coming. You keep getting after it. You keep doing one more. You can control this. You can't control all the exterior things in your life. People's attitudes, how they treat you. Who cancels on you? Who changes their mind? Who hates on you? Who lets you down? But you can control this. You can always go 46 instead of 45. You can always go 11 instead of 10.

You can always make the next phone call. Always do one more meeting. Always do one more. Always, always, always. And I promise you, you will knock down that rock that's in between you and your dream and make them come true. Today's really simple. You're going to knock down whatever that rock is that's been between you and your dream. You're going to keep after. You're going to be relentless. You're not going to give in.

You're going to be the person who stays excited until the entire job gets done, until that dream is real and you know long term all these other people, they're going to flinch, they're going to get weak and you won't. You've adopted a max out mindset and I want to remind you today to stay connected with me. I want you to win. Hope you can feel it today. I want to break it down to its most simple form which is that you use nature to your advantage.

You use the force of you, the force of effort, the force of sustained effort over an extended period of time to wear out the obstacles in front of you in your dream. I want you to feel the confidence that comes with it. I'm telling you, look at me, listen to me. You're going to do this. You're going to win if, and it's a big if, if you'll just adopt it. It ought to be written everywhere. One more, one more, max out everywhere you can put it. It's inevitable. It's not if anymore. It's just when.

This is the end my lunch shop.