Welcome to this Naked Mind podcast, where we question the role of alcohol in our lives without rule, shame, or judgment. I'm Annie Grace, and I'm so thrilled to have you with us today. In this special series, I'm inviting you into something truly unique and deeply personal. You're going to be listening in on real one-on-one coaching sessions between some of our certified This Naked Mind coaches and members of our community who are on their own journey with alcohol.
These sessions are raw, unfiltered, and completely unscripted. But before we dive in, I want to prepare you for what you're about to hear. These conversations are real. Real people, real struggles, real emotions. They're honest, and they're sometimes painful, and they may even be uncomfortable to listen to. But that's the point. So no matter where you are on your own personal journey, I encourage you to listen with an open heart and an open mind. Now let's step into the world of this naked mind coaching, because this is where change begins.
Hi, Debra. It's so good to see you. My name is Ona Wan. I'm one of the senior coaches here with the Snake of Mine. And I'm so, so honored to be here with Debra to hear a little bit more about her story and just have a little time to talk with one another. So welcome, Debra. I'd love for you to maybe introduce yourself. Let us know, you know, your experience with the path or if you're in the path and a little bit more about the question that you're bringing to share today.
Thank you. My name is Deborah and I am in the path. Actually, this is my third year. I went to the path the first time and didn't end up quite where I wanted to be. So I joined again because I was so impressed with the progress that I had made that first year in the path, something I had never experienced. So now I'm in the path year two.
And as we're delving a lot more deeply into our internal selves, I keep noticing things, long-standing beliefs that I've had and beginning to dig into where they come from and what they mean and how they're impacting me. And what came up for me and the question that I had has to do with
Why is it so difficult to ask for help? And that's never been something I did very easily. But before I get into that, let me give you just a little bit of background. I have been involved in some kind of, let's call it recovery program since 1988. So that goes way back. And I'm happy to say that most of my life has been entirely alcohol free with just a few lips in between. Most recently,
I was alcohol-free for over five years, and then 2020 happened. And COVID was just beginning to spread when I was diagnosed with consul cancer. So that made getting treatment difficult, it placed a lot of obstacles in the way. So I really had to advocate for myself. I should add that I'm single. I don't have any family left here or they're distant.
So I'm pretty much on my own, which is one of those beliefs that I had uncovered that I've had since I was a child. Anyway, so I was pretty good at advocating for myself, but it was exhausting. And all the surgeries that I had to go through, getting them scheduled and getting the treatment scheduled was difficult enough. But prior to getting treatment, I had to have all my teeth removed so I couldn't eat. I should note that food was my original drug of choice.
And I had become, as I got older, a bit of a food snob. So even though I wasn't using food as a drug anymore, I was very particular about what I ate. The radiation therapy made it difficult for me to taste food, plus it made it extremely painful to eat. So unfortunately, a few months after my radiation treatment, I decided that I could at least get a few calories by drinking beer.
and that it wasn't painful. And I lost some of the frustration and the anger and the sadness that I had over not being able to enjoy food anymore. So I started drinking, quickly got in trouble and spent the next year and a half to two years trying to get back on track. And I went back to AA. That wasn't comfortable for me. I did detox.
three times, I got involved in an intensive outpatient group that it's still based on a 12 step protocol.
And so it wasn't really helping me, but I kept looking and I found some books like drink like a woman. And we are the luckiest. And then I ran into this naked mind and I read that. And so I started doing some research online. I did the alcohol experiment, not successfully, but it changed my view of what life could look like.
And there was a way to get through it without the shame and the guilt. And, you know, it could actually be a joyful journey. So I joined the path.
was so excited the first year and was absolutely giddy but I wasn't doing a lot of the deep work that I really needed to do and consequently by the end of the path, the first path, I wound up drinking again as much as ever and so I joined the path again because I knew I had gone so much further
here than any place else. Now this may not seem to have much to do with my question, but hang with me for just a minute. So I joined the path the second time and did it completely differently. And this time I dug deeply into the content and was very active in the groups. And it was almost harder this time to put together any alcohol free time. And now meantime, here's a subtext that's been going along with us the whole time.
Because I became ill, I wasn't able to work. And I had to quit the contractual jobs that I'd had. And because of COVID, I ended up having to travel all over the state for treatment. And so my expenses skyrocketed while my income was diminished. And being the obnoxiously independent person that I was, I was determined to fix it myself.
that I would take care of it. And because of that, and I'm sure alcohol influenced it a great deal, I made some very poor choices. And let's zip ahead to today. And so consequently, I have gotten myself deeply into debt. I wasn't taking care of my health. And so that declined finally to a point where I finally had no choice but asked for help. I had become anemic.
and very ill and like practically immobile because I refused to ask for help when I needed it. I didn't catch it in time. And so my question is actually multifaceted. It has to do with recognizing when you need help and being okay
with asking for help and knowing the kind of help you need or even if you don't know what kind of help you need, how to reach out for help and asking for help, which is kind of what I'm doing now. And I realize that there's so much behind it and especially depending on the kind of help you're asking for and the reason that you're asking for it, there's so much shame involved.
And I was writing down some of the thoughts that I had had about asking for help. At a very early age, I adopted the belief that I was on my own and that people wouldn't help me, that I had to do it myself.
And with this last smorgasbord of issues that I've created for myself since I made that unfortunate decision is that I don't deserve help. I don't deserve it. This was my fault. And I just have to use whatever limited resources I have to resolve it. And that's been a really difficult one. Now, what that leads to, that belief leads to so much shame and self-judgment.
And I was writing down some of the emotions, too, and that just I get so angry at myself and wishing that I could go back and do something differently. And I end up isolating. I've placed myself in kind of a self-imposed exile over the last little bit, which means that the people that would reach out to help aren't really in contact with me.
So I guess if we can dive into a particular part of that, it's the judgment that we have and the shame we have. Regardless, I know some people, they may not have waited as long as I did to seek help or it may be for something else. But especially once you've let it blow up and kind of go off the ledge, you know, how to overcome
the judgment. And that's something else. There's fear, there's fear that I'm going to be judged. And that was something else I wrote, that people are going to, if I tell people I need help and why I need help, I'm going to be judged. And then,
tagging along with that one is that I deserve to be judged. They have a right to judge me. So that's made it really hard. Fortunately, some of the work that we've been doing in the last part of the path where we really start delving into itself and digging up some of those beliefs and reverse engineering, you know, where they came from.
and whether they're valid and challenging them, but not in an angry or an adversarial kind of way, but in a compassionate partnership kind of way, you know, kind of making peace with them. And so I was given an assignment several months ago by Annie to just dial down the intensity because I was so freaked out. I wasn't getting much alcohol free time. And so I took that to heart.
and spent the last several months on the path, bringing that into every bit of the content that I worked on. And that if I found myself getting wound up,
I began to learn ways to first recognize those thoughts and then challenge them just by saying, well, is that really true? And then delving into how those beliefs make me behave, how they make me feel and how they make me behave. I'm still an apprentice. I still fly off every once in a while. I think even though I haven't accumulated my childhood free time, my second time on the path,
The idea that I can dial down the intensity on most things has been my biggest takeaway and has been worth every minute that I've spent doing the work that I've done. I'm not happy that I'm not completely free yet, but this has been a stickler for me.
That's incredible, Deborah, you've done so much. And I hear so much in your story of that independence, how it's probably really served you, right? And we advocate for yourself why you're here right now. It's so interesting to also see there's a flip side to this. Sometimes they say like, when we feel it's a weakness is sometimes it's our strengths overused.
Okay now you know overuse but this strength and resilience and you being here and all the ways that you've done the different programs and shown up and with such heart and courage. That's something really to recognize.
and to normalize this whole process. Like you said, we're unwinding these beliefs and I think it's so beautiful how you're just recognizing them. And even just in that, recognizing that we can lower the intensity, what is this creating, creating shame? Okay, then what do I do? Then I'm hiding and I'm avoiding. All right, well, that's not quite. So even just like you said, just that recognizing it, the looseness that you're having around that, I think is something really, like if you step back and you think back to the beginning,
of this process, how much you've gained, how much you see, how much awareness. We think about the behavior, of course, that's why we're here, but it's all the stuff that happens underneath first. And that's what it shows so brilliantly here. And I wonder if some of these questions of when should I ask for help or is it okay or I think you've hit on something really beautiful and interesting that is
so shared also. I think it's such a shared thing for us to have this in one way or another, a little bit of a threat of this belief. But it's what meaning are we making of that, of someone who asks for help, of me, if someone, if I need help? That's what I wonder. What are we making that mean about you in those moments that feels heavy? I wrote down some of the things that my brain tells me when I feel like that is that I'm screwed up.
I'm so weak and selfish and irresponsible. I should have been more careful. I'm a failure.
Other people don't do things like this. And even if I did get help, would I be able to follow through? Or is it going to make me uncomfortable? It's going to make me do things I don't want to do. Oh, this is a good one. I'm useless. I'm just a burden to my family and friends. Oh, when I take it to the universe, OK, I take it all the way there. Yeah, there's also the belief that it's gone too far and there's no way to repair it.
So it's useless to ask for help. So no kidding, it would feel super heavy. No wonder. And it comes with all of that belief and these things that come up from there as if I was kind of hearing a little bit and you can tell me if I'm off on this too, because I could just relate to what you were saying in many ways.
Is there this idea that we shouldn't struggle or I should have done it perfectly? What problems are we allowed to have? I'm doing this wrong or something has gone wrong, but a real heaviness around if it was perfect then, okay, then I can reach out or whatever. But tell me your thoughts on that. That's absolutely true. What it reminded me of is the comparison that I can't help but make.
You know, I was talking with one of the coaches several months ago, and this was during one of my wound up times is I was having a morning where it was like everywhere I looked. I was holding up a standard.
And I fell short. I'd see people with their brand new cars, with their dealer plates on them and think, you know, I'm never going to have that. You know, I should have that now. Or people going on vacations, right? Even drive past people with their nice lawns and their houses and their savings.
and their families and their friends and their social lives and thinking, you know, I fell short in every area. And I felt so awful, even after having done a lot of work on honoring my own path, you know, and that there's a reason having the belief that apparently was asleep that morning, that everything happens for a reason, that there's a reason that this has happened, even though I participated.
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I think it's brilliant that you've highlighted the voice, right? Those negative thoughts that kind of are on loop, they just are under the surface that you wrote them down to get them out of our head and on paper can be so helpful because even that you're like, oh, this was pretty heavy. Like, would I go to a stranger and tell him even those words? We wouldn't.
That's our narrative, right? And our brain is really good at wanting to prove ourself right. And so if I've got those thoughts going, I want to seek out and prove, write a book on how this is messed up, how I don't add up.
Chapter one, chapter two, right? There's not really an upside. And that's just how our brain works. So I think it's amazing that you've given a voice. We all have those. I remember Annie sharing her thought download. I'm like, oh, well, we're all human. We all have thoughts and doubts and feel like, and our society keeps us in that lack. We're constantly bombarded with Instagram and messages. And here's what it should be because then that keeps us kind of in a state of,
wanting to fill that void. So it's no wonder, just normalizing it all, normalizing that we all have these kind of undercurrent of thoughts. And if you're brilliant awareness of it, this is how we can start to maybe even change the channel just even once or twice in a day, because there's a whole other side, which as you were speaking, you were going there.
like I've been presented this is a struggle this is an opportunity for me to show myself compassion for me to reach out and see the gift on the other side that discomfort of reaching out and the gift that offers others when they want to you know good it feels when we can do something for somebody yeah so it's like being able to see that part of it too and all the things that have
Yes, there's a particular thing that you're working through with that. Okay. But if it wasn't that, there's other stuff. It's just how it goes, right? We all have those next things, those things we're working on, those things we want to accomplish. So when we're trying to compare the outside, like they say people's outside to our inside, it keeps us in that gap versus, yeah, which Andy talks about the gap in the game a lot. Yep, exactly. Well, one of the things that I mentioned that I feared is the idea of being judged and that I deserve it.
I deserve it. Yeah. I don't know how to turn that belief around. So let's look at that one. And I wonder if, have you heard Annie Grace talk about the both and?
I wonder if there's like a soft place to land in all of this. Like you said, with the story that we're making this mean, when I asked for help, a lot comes up. I messed up. I've done it wrong. People will judge me. There's a really heavy story. And what if there's both and in the way that we all are like, I both have struggle and I have strength and confidence is almost like accepting all of it. But tell me your thoughts. That reminded me of a coaching call, but Annie did.
where she was helping someone who had a conflict with her sister. And it was around drinking and she felt very judged by her sister. And like me, she felt that her sister was justified in judging her because she still wasn't able to stop drinking. So they had become non-communicative and they lived in the same house.
And so what Annie suggested was a way to converse with her sister and say, yes, you're right. This is harming me. It's harming our relationship. And I'm doing all I can to make it better. It allowed her to have her opinion, recognize the validity of her thoughts and still not take the weight of all of that on herself. Does that make sense? Completely. How do you see that in relation to her?
your experience. I think it might take a little bit of work. There's some history there that I haven't really shared much about. I can do some writing about that. Oh, can I share it with you one of the tools? Yeah, please.
It's actually not one of Annie's tools, but I would get so anxious about finances that whenever I started to address it, even if I was looking at a bank statement or a bill or something like that, I would get so anxious that I literally felt like I was going to pass out. So I saw one of Andrew Huberman's podcasts.
where he was talking about journaling. And he gave you a very specific instructions for how to do it to make it most effective. And that was just to write stream of consciousness, everything that came into your head, no matter how awful or petty or whatever it was, do it for 15 to 30 minutes.
And don't look back. Don't worry about smelling. Don't worry about how it looks. Don't worry about anything like that. Just keep writing and to do it four times, either four days in a row, once a week, four weeks in a row. And I found that by the third week, I could feel that all of that sediment that had been sitting inside my chest and my head had slowed out through my fingers. And I know any advocates journaling a lot.
especially those negative thoughts. In fact, I was just listening to the content this morning on entropy, just some of the subsequent lessons and how just writing those thoughts down during the day and then address them then or either coming back to them and challenging them eventually, it's helpful. Yeah, because it's going on under there anyway, we've got those thoughts and as we see, just like you were feeling opening the bill, that
physical feeling that we have and then the outcome. And so being able to let that out and see what those thoughts are and create space for you right now, even to process whatever's coming up and those emotions. And I wonder too, as I was mentioning, changing the channel, we're watching that. I'm useless. You said some, oh my gosh, so, you know, or I haven't done this right channel, but there's also this other side of your story that you opened up and shared here of this person who has been seeking for that help.
has gone to those different programs, and then pivoted when you're like, nope, and found Annie's, and took the experiment, and then leaned in and did the path.
And then reaching out here in other ways and sounds like joining on the calls and advocated for yourself in that incredible, I can't even imagine the intensity of that year you went through in your healing. And so recognizing to you do, you know, right? And you have reached out and you've advocated for yourself. I wonder if there's some part where we can see also that side of the story.
while we're loosening up what do we make it mean when someone asked for help because in my eyes and i think for so many i've heard even people say this asking for help or reaching out when they need it becomes like a superpower to strength. So i wonder if there's a way to explore without forcing our brain still might hold on to it that it's not just to be open to the other side of it too.
Like in what ways have I leaned into that already? In what ways do I know when I want to reach out and what that looks like? And maybe it's not an all or nothing. Maybe it's a gentle scale where you check in and either distance ourselves from people or we get all fused with people, but in this middle, you checking in with you and saying, you know what, I have known all along. You've been doing it. You know, I guess I kind of have. Yeah.
And it doesn't mean we're perfect. We're going to struggle and things are hard because, oh, yeah, we're human. So this idea that it needs to be perfect, you know, or that my struggles, yeah, like we all have them. Or the belief that I should be able to do this myself. I should be able to resolve this myself. And like what we would be missing, we'd be missing your voice, Deborah, on this journey, who I'm sure you've helped so many people by speaking up and sharing, even on the all path call.
That's why we do this together, we go faster together. In our own head, boy, these thoughts can just take us down. And then you realize and you're sharing, you're like, oh, yeah, you've got that going on. And here's another way to look at it. All of a sudden, we can feel so completely different. Even just sharing, and it's like people's ears lift part of the burden for us. Even if they can't do something physically, it's like purging. It's like flushing out the system.
And that has been helpful. I'm not sure where I would have been at this point had I not found that community. Yes. And think about that. I do. I've leaned in. I've found community. I've reached out. You've talked to Annie Grace about it, like specifically, you've known all along and the story that something has gone wrong or I'm not just normalizing that too. We're all going to have these different struggles. This one at this time could be this amazing opportunity for compassion.
and to see the other side of it. And that's very helpful to be able to put it in perspective and instead of making whatever missteps I may have made in the last few years not be representative of my entire life because I know they're not because they're right in my face though. For you listeners, I'm putting my hands right in front of my face. But it gets so big.
and add a proportion, but even just talking about this here, it really is helpful. I mean, we can take it as data when we make it mean something about us so deep, so heavy, like something has gone wrong with me. No, okay. Yeah, these kind of things have happened. There's programs, there's ways, there's stuff for me to figure out, but it's so hard when we're in the judgment and shame to get any awareness.
because it's like buried under there, right? So we've got that judgment and shame on top that make it so difficult and it's so understandable. The other word that I wrote down is it is so heavy and I'm not exaggerating when I found it to be so heavy that it was physically and mentally paralyzing for me.
There were days when I had so much anxiety and so much shame and so much fear and guilt and regret that I couldn't get off the couch or couldn't get out of bed. And I know that's kind of an extreme example. And I hope that helps other folks who I don't know that I even want to say that because asking for help and how people feel about it is as individual as individuals.
But I think it's such a gift that you're even sharing and just normalizing this for all of us. Yeah. And for you to recognize, I mean, who hasn't felt that and that shame and being buried into that and how then we just
want to hide or not take action. It's debilitating. Yeah. And to recognize that that heaviness, the story that we make it mean something or like you said, it doesn't mean it's not about not going through the struggle. It's you doing this differently, going into some of this discomfort, right? To explore this belief, the things I'm attaching to it, because the numbers are just the numbers. Okay, there's some numbers and we got to figure out those numbers. All right. What's the next step?
But without the story that something is wrong or i don't deserve this or that heaviness when we make it mean and sometimes i even just pause and say that to myself just to give myself a minute. And i'll do the same thing i'm like oh i was doing something and i'm like oh yeah and i make it me i'm like what am i making this mean i'm like oh and you know what i came up with i have to be perfect at this.
I'm like, well, that's not possible. All right. So how am I going to learn from this? How am I going to pivot? How am I going to take this but not find, like you said, even looking at some of these thoughts that are popping up? And of all the thoughts you could choose in that scenario, these are the ones you're choosing. That's a good question.
And I hear it in a completely different way. I'd have different, you know, about your story. And I know there's more details and things like that. But in any given situation, there's a thousand thoughts you could choose.
And are these ones really serving me? Are they the ones that are helping me? Because when we're in that kind of fight or flight state, we know it shuts down our brain because we're just in survival. So what else do I want to say intentionally? These are the thoughts are by default. We're just given these thoughts. We all have them running. But intentionally, what do I want to say about myself right now? Being here on a call, have joined this journey, went through that intense healing journey in 2020.
all of those things have brought you here, your strength, your resilience. So thinking about what we want to say to ourselves through this could make a really big shift in how we feel. I can appreciate my tenacity, I think. How does that feel? Does that feel true to you? I would say tenacity for sure. Just the second I met you, I'm like, oh my gosh,
a little anecdote. But you know how when employers often would ask you, what's your greatest weakness and what's your greatest strength? I would tell them that I have a list of strengths and that my weaknesses are just my strengths run amok. Yes. You know, when they go too far and that's been true for me.
Me too. So isn't that cool? I love that. And so with awareness, which is gentle, I'm like, oh, I'm a little far over here on this side, right? I just got to ease it back in, ease it back in. What would the middle look like? Not all or nothing. Not, I don't know how to ask. I do. I'm learning that I can trust myself to ask when I need it.
Right? Or I'm learning to unwind this belief that it means something has gone wrong because I'm asking for help. It's constantly course correcting. Yeah, just gentle and allowing for some of these emotions like you allowed for today by journaling and being here. And you know, it's like, oh, yeah, this part that brings up some of that fear. Okay, I feel it there. Just take a breath. So it's kind of this delicate balance for me anyway of allowing the emotion.
because if I'm trying to get out of the emotion, I know I'm resisting it. I'm just like, oh, okay. Yeah, probably as a woman sometimes, there's some fear that comes up, okay? All right. What's it got to tell me? It's like, watch out, be careful. Okay, I hear you. Right now, we're just doing this. And just remind your brain the next little step, the next little thing is right there, just like it always has been. That's been pretty huge for me too, is recognizing that it's harsh and it's seemingly petty.
as those voices can be that that's not their intent. That's a pretty good skill too, is being able to understand that ultimately you want the same thing. You both want the same thing and that's healing and it's just a different method of going about it. So what do you see in that as the fear comes up wanting the same, wanting to protect you? What emotion would you like leading you forward today?
a couple come up, actually three come up, hope, confidence, and genuine humility, not shameful humility, not humiliation, but being able to recognize that, yeah, I pushed the edge. Well, there's no question. I did do some things that didn't work out as I had hoped. But even that phrasing feels lighter. And it didn't go, okay, I thought it was going to look a little different right now, but
It's not, so now what? Yeah, from this beautiful authentic with yourself, being there for you through this, that hope, that confidence comes when it's like, yeah, some parts are struggle and some parts, like you said, are my amazing strength.
Yep, exactly. And in that humility, being able to say, yeah, I screwed up, but not sending myself to death row for it and let the, if you want to call it punishment, that may not be a good word to use, but let the punishment fit the crime in quotes. And the punishment you're doing for yourself right now is the part, right? We're beating ourselves up. That's really interesting and to really reflect on, yeah, I had some things and maybe even
We just take the facts and we kind of strip away the story. The story gets really heavy and it's this, but it's like, oh, I thought I did some things and it didn't work out how I thought it was gonna. Okay. So now what? Now there's a million thoughts we can choose that can kind of tap into that hope, that confidence.
Yeah, some parts I struggle them. I remember Annie telling us something really cool. And I don't know if this, I don't know, it's just coming to me right now. But she said, you know, we think that failure, whatever we want to call it, data points we talked about in the past are like the opposite of success.
But it actually, it's part of it. It's in the land of success. That means we're doing stuff. And we tried it and it didn't go so well. If I make it mean, I'm a terrible person, I have something that's gone wrong. Well, then I get buried. But if I'm like, OK, nope. All right, I learned some things from that. Here's what I'm going to do. And here's what I'm going to take it to move forward. And Annie says in business, she had somebody who was her coach. And she had something. And it did not go how she thought.
It was going to go and he said take a notebook out one of those like legal pads and write everything you learned. Oh my gosh that's so cool because we don't learn when everything's just smooth I mean we do what we're like us just great is when we come up against it and things were challenging and it didn't go away we thought and we were human and I made some things or whatever happened.
But there's so, so much gold in there. And if we can just take a moment from the story that it's something, no, okay, we all have this. Ask anybody their story, like, let me tell you what happened with here. I took a term, made a mess, like we have tons of them, right? But when we can write down that page and she says she just wrote and wrote and wrote and I've done this with similar things for mine.
Whoa, it can start to flip around with this big thing. We thought was the worst. Like, wow, I see something. And even if it's just in this, like, I learned how to speak to myself through a struggle. I'm not going to abandon myself there. I'm going to reach out. I'm going to lean in. I'm going to join a call. All of these different things, everything we learned, there's so much that we gained that we couldn't have had we not been through it.
I love that idea. I've done that before, but not to really dig deep. I picked the low hanging fruit about what I learned, but not to really dig deep. It's like in this, this is where we get closer. If there's something really beautiful about it and there's such a gift you gave everyone by showing up and sharing part of your story because
It is so shared. And I think you're so authentic in going through this. And that's the most beautiful place to start. It's just the whole truth. The whole truth is, yeah, some parts of it were hard and that didn't go how I thought, okay, now what's next? What have I gained? What have I learned? And how do I want to take that to move forward? What you're doing right here?
I have learned over my many decades of life that trying to carry a falsehood or a facade is too heavy a burden to bear. It's exhausting. That's really beautiful. And I wonder too, how you're seeing this now, if we want to turn around the asking for help. That's beautiful. What you said, it's just not having the facade. And I think there's something really gentle and beautiful about showing up with the whole truth.
That's what connects us as humans. And the whole truth is, yeah, I got a lot of things that I've figured out. And this thing, it was really hard for me. And you're like, yeah, let me tell you what was hard. It's all of it. And I think that might be a really interesting place, even as you're discerning, who do I want to ask and when do I want to ask? Without the story, like, and we just know, I know when to reach out and figure out for me moment by moment, case by case.
I'm going to check in with me and decide and lean into that authenticity that you bring. Let me ask you what you think about this. I'm thinking that if I keep it light, then whoever I'm sharing it with has at least the opportunity to keep it light. As I learned to make more peace with how the last few years have gone,
then, okay, this is good. I don't even know where this came from. It came out of your words. You led me here. But when I approached people about very sensitive things, just to work on making peace with it within myself, so that even if they do judge, if they get angry with me, that I don't have to absorb it, I can just say, yes, you're right, and I'm doing the best I can.
because really when we, you know, as we know, at least when it brings up something for someone else that's telling us more about their brain than where they are with it. So I think even having a thought like that, like they don't need to fully get it. I get it. Or whatever it is that, yeah, you want to carry in making peace with that. Then we're not needing to control how they feel so that we can be okay because we're already okay.
And they might say something weird and might have something because people do know what, right? We're already know that we're okay. Almost there. Getting closer. That's really perfect. I needed to hear that.
I just see it already. So hopefully you get a chance to see this reflected back to you. Because as you tell your story of your tenacity, of your ability to work through these things, of your willingness to share and to start with such like this, I just love how you said without the facade. You're like, I learned a long time ago. That's where all the change happens. That's where all this comes. So I just think it's such a beautiful thing. So if you had a thought today, like that kind of tapped into that tenacity,
would be a thought that we could choose intentionally about you and this journey you're on right now at this moment. Okay, now I'm judging my thought. What came to mind was to keep it simple and to not look at everything all at once and to focus just on some tiny thing that I have the ability and the energy and the will to do at a time.
And if that means just asking somebody, can you come sit with me, help me sort my closet? You know, just come be, spend time with me while I do this thing. I think, well, I'm not thinking right now so much as feeling. And I feel like, like a lot of the heaviness has
And like so many of the coaches say so often, it's just holding onto something lightly and not grasping it and choking it, but just holding onto it lightly and examining it. It's a skill. It takes a long time to develop.
And then we fall in again because we're human and our brains come in. This awareness already will shift it. You know, all we have to be doing is be willing to question that. Just be like, I'm willing to see how actually I do know how to advocate for myself or I have a tenacity that I can rely on and I always have. Okay, let's lean into that. Yeah, it's softer and I loved your focus. I've choose that thought sometimes too and overwhelm. I'm like, I just focus on today.
That's what I'm going to do and redirect and my brain's like, what about? Oh, no. Watch out for this. No, right now, we're just right here. What's the email? What's the lunch? Like, it's right. The next thing and bring it back to those moments can be really helpful too.
That's perfect. This has been so helpful because I am in such a different state now that I was when I was writing, making my notes. Really? Oh, I'm sad. Well, it's because of you. You just shared so generously and openly. It's very inspiring for any of us because a lot of us just hold it. So at least for me, especially when the shame or feeling, it just can feel so.
isolating, as you mentioned, and you're doing it differently now. And that might be a thought too. I choose that sometimes. It's delicate. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm doing it a little differently today. Okay. Let's try that. Well, and your guidance is enormously helpful, you know, and the kindness and compassion. So I really appreciate that.
Oh, thanks, Deborah. That's so nice. This has been so wonderful. So from here, what's a tiny little step that you see a little emotion you want to lead into? I know you said you were focusing there. I thought you want to pick for today. What's a step you see forward from here? Okay, the emotion is peace. And a step I want to take is to write down some of the things that I truly want help with.
And actually, I've already made some progress because I did talk to a friend of mine at length that I haven't talked to for quite a while and just kind of let all of this stuff out. And she offered to help with certain planning things. Isn't that amazing? This whole other side. That's beautiful. And it leaned into that piece, normalizing this, first of all, allowing how you're feeling in the moment.
is how we're going to have access to peace along the way, even before we're there. And I think talking about writing again, I think just writing down some of the things, even just categorizing areas where I want or need help and just getting it on paper and out of my head. Yeah, that's huge. And when we're coming from this curiosity, like, I wonder what that's going to be or I'm doing it a little differently this time, I wonder what that's going to look like. It'll be lighter. So then
We can take different action. It's so true. That's amazing, Deborah. I love how you're already seeing that too. You'll have to keep me posted, will you? Yeah, I would love to hear and I so appreciate this time and you so generously spending that with me and to explore this together. It's just amazing to meet you, Deborah. Thank you, Aloa. I've heard good things about you, so I'm so happy to be doing this with you today. Oh, I'm so glad. Likewise, Deborah. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you're ready to see how this naked mind can help you on your personal health and wellness journey, and want to learn more, go to thisnakedmindpodcast.com to learn what your next best step is. Again, that's thisnakedmindpodcast.com. We have all of our free resources, programs, social links, and more available for you there. Plus, if you have your own naked life story to share, you can submit it there as well. Until next week, stay curious.
