The Gun Collective Podcast 150.5 – Crypto To Save The Guns?

you're about to listen to a podcast from the firearms radio network. For more visit firearms radio.net. Welcome back to the gun collective podcast. My name is John Patton. As per freakin usual, we've got some great guests. I'm telling you guys, I'm just I'm hitting home runs left and right. And you guys get to come along with me. We've got some excellent guests this week.

But first, we got to pay those bills. Shout out to Vertex, V-E-R-T-X.com. Use the code TGC. Right now, I think they've got a sale going on. I don't know if it'll still be going on when you guys get this, but use that code. Just check that code all the time, TGC. And you may get yourself a pretty hefty discount. It's normally at least 15%.

And it goes up and down every time there's a holiday, this, that, the other, they've got great bags, apparel, et cetera. Vertex is awesome. Be sure to check them out. Also go to XSSites.com. Hey, Clint, do you have iron sights on your pistols?

Do I have iron sites on my pistols? Yeah, baby. Yeah, see, because smart men have iron sites on their pistols. And I believe you guys out there should also do that. And you should buy the good ones from XS sites. The code is TGCO, say 20%. And it'll be rad. I really think you guys should check them out. They support this show and so should you. Now, my guests are some guys that I've known for quite a while in this industry.

Both of them collectively are some of the most ridiculous personalities I've ever dealt with and also some of the smartest. I've got Dave Warner from Next Level Armament and Clint Walker from which company are we representing here, Clint? We'll just say Unicorn Media. Unicorn Media. Clint has his hands in like 8,000 things. It's awesome. Guys, how are you doing tonight?

Good, lovely. Yeah, great. We're doing good. That's very casual. I think one of the things that we really need to talk about and part of the reason you guys are here is the sort of catastrophe that is the gun industry at all times. Can you guys call out in quick fashion? We'll start with Dave on this one, like the top three biggest issues with the gun industry as a whole.

I mean...

As far as just culture wise, you get the cannibalism between each other and tearing each other apart. It's always disheartening when you see guys jump into a forum and ask you a question, right? So the first time they've asked something, how many people actually answer that question versus how many people shit all over their face and tell them how fucking stupid they are, right? I mean, it's legitimate questions like our left hand eject AR10, somebody was asking the question the other day and every single comment was destroying those people.

I mean, people, people just asking questions like, Hey, I'm getting, I'm getting a five, five, six. What, what should I get? You know, people like us three would go, what are you going to do with it? What's the application? You know, and everybody else should shove shit down their throat that they own, you know? I am PSA. Yeah.

Yeah, yep, yep, too poor, too poor. Yeah, I mean, and I get it, you know, it's fun, but I mean, just just bringing people in the industry and helping the industry grow, I think is a big, big problem right now where, you know, you get into other stuff and people really enjoy helping you and, you know, some of the other projects I work on in other industries. You know, I always look at things, especially from a manufacturing standpoint, where I'm going to help the consumer get a better product working with a competitor, right? Like I can help

cost, increase quality, do some of these things that we need working with the other companies. So it's not only on the consumer level, it tends to be on the higher level in a lot of these companies where they're like, well, I'm not going to talk to that guy because he does the same thing I do, but we don't really do the same thing, right? So really the issue there just seems to be that people are dickheads. I mean, I mean, to summarize, that's what it sounds like. Would you agree? Yeah.

Okay. Clint, do you have anything that comes to mind when you think about the issues with the gun industry at large? For sure. I mean, you know, Dave, you know, really hits it on the head, you know, as a manufacturer.

cannibalism, copycatting, that sort of thing. There's two forms, right? We cannibalize the people that are in this industry, trying to break into this industry, trying to ask questions about fire and ownership, responsible fire and ownership, et cetera. And then you have copycats, people that just want to do me too, me too, me too. It's difficult not to get diluted by

new people in the space. And I mean, let's face it. Dave and I both played in the, in the side of the space that, you know, it tends to get the most copied, which is the AR-15. And by the way, I copied Eugene Stoner's design. So, you know, I'm, I'm that guy too, right? Sure. But what's more than that, John, is, you know, we happen to work in an industry whereby we,

pay the government to put us out of business. I think people actually understand the challenges of manufacturing firearms. Okay, so for the people that may be listening and don't understand, can you talk about what the hell in excise tax is and how we are paying to put ourselves out? Sure. So, you know, excise tax, now,

We could get, we literally could get a forum together of 10 different manufacturers and you get 10 different answers as to how they treat excise tax. Oh, really? Wow. Oh, yeah, it's very loose because like a lot of things, tax-related firearm regulation related, they're intentionally gray.

But just from a 50,000 foot level, it's a 10% tax of the wholesale of a finished good in that space. Now, there's some people that will say it's 10% of the total wholesale value of a firearm that's made.

In essence, if you're making a component like a complete bullet, for example, the primer, the powder, the case, the projectile, that's a finished good and therefore falls under the same guidelines as excise tax as a finished good.

You know, this is where, by the way, that gets passed right on to the consumer. So if I'm manufacturing a firearm, an AR-15, let's say, and my done wholesale base level cost is $1,000. Well, now it's $1,100 because I got to pay that extra money to the government. And by the way, I'm going to pass that on to the consumer. Every manufacturer does the same thing. That's where taxes go. Government takes that.

And they can say that they don't, but they turn around and turn that into funding to create legislation to drive us out of business.

It's a very tough thing to navigate for us because as you know, we've had quite a shake up on the pro 2A organizations that help defend our customer base and us as manufacturers, right? With the NRA going through a

overdo and needed reorganization, and then you've got these up and coming organizations that have really been able to step up and speak on behalf of the pro-constitution, pro-2A movement.

Difficulty comes in that, here we are coming off of Dave, what would you say, probably one of the worst years that we've had as manufacturers, it's been tough. 100%. Funding those guys, profitability, and your pocketbook to be able to write those checks to these organizations are just getting smaller and smaller for each company.

Absolutely. And as you know, I mean, guys, anyone listening to this podcast, I mean, every time you turn around, I thought I just wrote a check to this organization and now they're asking me for another $20 for this or $20 for that and so on. And by the way, those needs are real.

They're real needs. But unfortunately, as you're trying to navigate increasing costs of goods and increasing wages, gas prices going, all these different things that affect us as manufacturers. We're also trying to spin plates, so to speak, and say, well, I want to support gun owners of America. And I want to support this organization over here, but I can't

I can't do anything wholeheartedly for all of them. I find that to be a challenge. For me, guys, listen, it's no secret. In the past with my companies, I've been a big proponent of supporting the NRA. I've had long discussions, late night discussions with guys like John.

And Eric and some of these guys that are like, dude, wake up. This is what's going on. Well, the audience is listening. Hopefully, they've heard. We had Second VP Mark Vaughn on this show not that long ago to discuss the issues with the NRA. I held his feet to the fire about it.

And hopefully the people out there got a chance to listen to that. So they've been exposed to that, for sure. Oh, good. Good. And look, like I said, much needed reorganization, a lot of changes happening, whatever. But support for us to remember that there's good men and women in that organization still. So just as we say, we can't allow the actions of one officer to say that all officers are bad. We also have to look at that effectively the same way.

with some of these pro-gun organizations. So that being said, I made a big commitment to support the NRA early in my career. And for those of you who don't know, I've been doing this for a minute, 13, 14 years.

You know, it's tough stuff to navigate it's tough to keep current with who's who and it's tough to Support something in perpetuity and that's a really important thing as we get into our discussion today about to our coin and and why Why we created it As a mechanism in part to support these pro constitution pro gun organizations in perpetuity

So I think we need to take a step back before we dive too deep into that portion of it because

When I think of the struggles that we face as an industry and the sort of weight that's being pressed down on us of opposition, this weight that we all have to carry collectively,

I often wonder if some of our cohorts are almost pulling that down. Do you guys from a manufacturer standpoint see that? Do you feel like people are joining in and being like, well, well, fuck it, I'll, I will just comply.

and deal with that sort of thing. Do you see that? One of the big things that we're seeing, not only was this a very, very rough year, we were super fortunate because all the little pieces, parts, upgrades, that kind of stuff we make for the platform. But full guns, sales were terrible. And then you had the export laws change and all that stuff change, right? And then you had basically a cycle. So if you take a cycle of these companies that say a third of their business is exporting, right?

And you take that cycle and you bump that 90 days and then 180 days. That's their whole term cycle of all their manufacturers that are producing the parts. That's why this past year, you've seen so many companies go out of business. Because they pulled the rug on that and then they kind of reengaged it and went back and forth. You're talking 180 days of no sales on a 30 year business, right? That completely crushed these companies.

And they're suppliers, right? They're suppliers when you talked about people not getting paid and that stuff happening. They're getting crushed because they're not getting paid at the top level, right? So yeah, we've seen a lot of that as a white box manufacturer, especially other companies need just three of the widgets we make to be able to produce their units no matter what they are in.

when that happened with export, it affected a lot of the industry as well. So it's not just the domestic sales. It seems very strategic to me how things have unfolded under the past administration to the point of, like you said, by design, right? Like this was a plan and a ton of these companies folded. You guys seen, I mean, well, was it every month or so or just a mainline standard household name folded up?

You know, as part of me thinks that it's healthy for us to have that sort of normalization, if you could call it that, I don't know what else to call it. But I almost, I think a lot of those companies earn the going out of business. But, you know, the regulatory side is certainly something that just loves to fuck people.

You know, the government loves to change stuff and go, oh, well, now your whole business is changing because we on a whim decided something different. What do you think about that, Clint? So, you know, I agree, actually, both of you on that.

I have the saying, you know, sales hide sins, right? Yes, it does. When things are going really good, man, like your company can be completely fucking sideways internally, right? Your books are a mess, your scrapping parts left and right, all these different things. And it's only when sales start to shrink.

that it's like that creates this magnifying glass that you then see everything monopically through, right? Now you're looking at things a lot closer, Dave, you know this, right? Because in our machine shops, we have to go find where those dollars and cents are that we can pick up off the shop floor literally, right? That could be our tuning the programming for that part. Can we make it faster? Can we make it more efficient?

You know, have someone sit in the boroughs or pulling that part off the machine versus sending it back to a department to defer all these numerous things. But.

I don't want to say that this regulation and the things that have unfolded and run companies out of business is solely because of that. At the end of the day, it just hyper accentuated problems that they already had. John, I believe the same thing as you. I believe that that type of attrition, that type of competition is a good thing.

Because again, in the AR space for years, I had people coming out and copycatting, copycatting, copycatting. And I just say, look, those people are working out of their garage or whatever, which is where I started, by the way. So I like that guy, right? I'm a champion of that guy. But if they can't make it,

You know, I'm not going to miss them when they're gone. And that's, you know, in part, you know, one of the reasons that we collaborate, right? You get some of the guys that put the ego aside and say, hey, I'm going to call my buddy Dave over here. He makes the same thing as me.

He goes to a rival high school, right? And I'm going to call on him and say, hey, let's get together on this project or that. And it really takes some maturity from our industry to be able to do those sort of things. It also takes swallowing one's own ego. And I think that is one of the most difficult things for people in our industry. It's a lot of type A's or supposed type A's, I'll say. People that love to think they are type A and

They lead with their ego, and that causes a whole shitload of cascading issues. But we could spend like eight hours talking shit on how stupid people are in the gun industry. I see it all the time with marketing departments left and right, and I go, how the fuck are you people still here? How do you, the products are rough?

uh, you know, like, uh, for example, a very, very, very prestigious 2011 company specifically 2011 named staccato, uh, they make ammunition now and it's garbage. Uh, we, we tried to run it through several guns today. Uh,

And the only one that would run it is a gun that has had thousands and thousands of rounds through it. And all I could think was, how the fuck did this get out of that place? How do you make ammunition that won't feed? How do you get to a point? That's the question I continually ask. And what I see

is these like pockets of greatness throughout the industry and guys that fucking get it, that start to understand, wait, we can do this differently. We don't have to abide by these rules of the past. We no longer have to go, well, this is how it's done and that's just how we do it with no explanation.

I think that's what's going to change the way the gun industry does things. And with that in mind, you guys are working on a project that I have some involvement in currently. I want that to be very clear. I do have some involvement in this. There is a project going on and Dave, can you explain the name?

to bore so I live in Michigan and it's right on our flag and it means I will defend even though we are not doing a very good job of that here in Michigan. No, you are not. No, you guys are shitting the bed. Yeah, absolutely. It's terrible. But yeah, that's what the name came from. What is this as like high, high, high level? What is it?

I mean, how, how nerdy do you want me to get? Do you want me to get into kind of my background in the space that got us to the start of this? So let's start with, uh, you're explaining this to a five year old. Let's start there and then we'll start peeling the onion. So what is to bore? What is it at its highest level? It is a cryptocurrency project.

for the firearms industry designed to solve many of the issues we deal with. One of the big things we didn't bring up is demonetization as well. That's probably

90% of us have ran into that issue at some time or another, right, Clint? I mean, it's always brutal, right? You have a credit card processor that all of a sudden gets bought by a liberal company and they just hold on to your money for as long as they want to. And I'm not talking little dollars. Hundreds and thousands of dollars. Yes. They just go, okay, we're done with you. You're like,

Cool, send me my check and they're like, okay, and you just keep making that phone call. Can I cite a specific example, please, just to paint that picture and John more clearly? You know, guys, so imagine that your, you know, firearm manufacturer, you started out of your garage, whatever the case is, but you've scaled and you've managed to survive and you've managed to survive, despite the copycats, despite the,

regulation despite the failing economy and all those things. You come in to work one day and your controller or CFO says, hey, boss, we've been cut off. What do you mean we've been cut off? We don't have any access to our banks right now, our bank account. The bank that you've been banking with for years,

Just decided on a Wednesday or a Tuesday, we're shut in your account. We're freezing your account right now. You can't have any money coming in and you can't have any going out.

That's terrifying. It's terrifying. It's actually when we think about government overreach, and it's the pinnacle of that, which by the way, it shouldn't be lost on anyone listening to this.

You're not going to be controlled through, you know, the seizing of this and the seizing of, you know, your firearm, your this, you know, coming and kicking in your door, whatever. They're going to seize your bank account.

Because when you seize your bank account, you can't feed your family. You can't keep your lights on. You can't go buy groceries. You can't do any of those simple things that we take for granted. We saw it happen in Canada. We saw that happening to those truck drivers, right? They said, we're starting to seize those guys' bank accounts. Fuck you, Trudeau, right? He's got everything coming to him. Sorry. I swore I wasn't going to get all excited and start cussing because Dave hates it when I cuss.

Oh, I love it. I'm pretty sure Dave said something about shitting on people within the first five minutes. So what I'm saying, though, is that this actually happened to me. It's happened to twice in this industry. I'm not going to name banks or anything like that, but it's happened twice where it was like, oh, shit. What do we do? And we're frantically contacting the bank and saying, what happened? And you know what they tell you? Well, you're selling firearms.

And we just realized it after three years. And that's honestly what's happened. Okay. I love that. I love that. That is usually like, oh, we, we, we randomly found it when the name of the company is like, blah, blah, blah firearms. Oh, dude. We can dump fucks. Yeah. You just figured that out, which by the way, we're an actual bonafide manufacturer. We're doing these things all above board legally.

We have what's called a federal firearms license and we sell to licensed dealers, right? We're not just going on Instagram and posting something and saying, come to my house and I'll sell it to you out of my garage. It's ridiculous how people, anti-ident people think our business runs. But one of the controls, a big control, the ultimate control could be argued is the seizing of our bank account, the demonetization.

as Dave talks about. So, yes, it's happened to me. It's happened to Dave. It's happened to people that are involved in this project. Dave, I digress. I'll let you take it from here. Sorry to go on that rant. Oh, you're good, man. That's helpful. You know, I feel, I mean, I finally got to a point where I told the gentleman I was on the next flight to New York and had his office addressed and I was going to come meet him the next day. And miraculously, I had my money. So, I mean, it's just, it's absolutely insane.

Yeah, so fast forward to everything we've been through. Like you said, the Canadian things, the COVID things, the shutdown things, it's been absolutely insane. So I have been in the cryptocurrency space for quite some time. Everybody thought I was, you know, bash it crazy back when I spent, you know, a little bit of money on a couple graphics cards. And my son and I,

He was 12 years old at the time. We sat downstairs in the basement and we figured out how to mine space money, right? Whoa, we woke up the next day and we had some Ethereum at $5.16. We are absolutely thrilled. And then I said, cool, let's buy some more graphics cards and do some more. So we got that all up and running. And then I do a very good job of finding people that are smarter than my

I had a friend of mine, I would call out his name, but he's a fighter pilot that is an absolute genius. And he helped us develop some seven card rigs and maximize our profitability with the power draw and all that fun stuff. So I built up, I think about $70,000 worth of graphics cards and the lobby at my manufacturing facility.

Um, and then you realize how freaking absurd that sounds, right? Yeah, that's, I mean, nobody knew what it was. They were just like, what is Rainmandu in the lobby of his office? Definitely. Definitely mining. Definitely mining. Yeah. I'll come clean here. Uh, in, in the midst of this, Dave calls me and he's like, dude, dude, I'm, I'm mining, uh, crypto.

You know, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, Dave. I'm mining what? Who is crypto and what do you do? Look, I'm telling you, the more of these things that we buy and set up, the more we mine and get. And he was going to rent this facility there and like do this big push. He's like, Hey, I want you to get in on this thing. And I love Dave, right? Like Dave and I, you know, we're people, right? Like we go back because

We got screwed by the same person one time and it really brought us together. Blood brothers. Blood brothers. And this is what I love about Dave. I'm focusing on making another quarter MOA accurate rifle, doing all this shit in myopic space. Dave's fucking making hot sauce and fucking crypto mining business.

You know all these different things and i'm like he's he's the epitome of a serial entrepreneur which i used to think i was right but on that one i was like day like sounds like you're building a bunch of open box of tari systems over there i'm just not into that but.

Go ahead, Dave. I'll just keep adding color. I'm going to be. I'm going to be your. I ended up raising some capital with some friends of mine and building out that facility. I think our electric bill was like $45,000 one month. I mean, we brought in like 3000 graphics cards and just racks and racks and racks and it was like.

110 degrees average temperature up there. So we would go up there and we had a couple of guys that started in the fund with us that were actually very intelligent attorneys that are also super ADD crazy guys like me. So they would go up there and they would help work. They wanted to put the rigs together and do the work and one of them always had this big gold chainless Italian guy and

Wait, wait, wait, you're telling me in Italian guys and we're in a gold. Yeah, yeah. Right. You could see. I can actually just, I can actually in this way, rubbing against it as he's telling me. Yeah. So, so to keep in mind the, the tribes paid no electric bill here in Michigan in two different facilities, right? So they find out what I'm doing in there. Like, holy shit, we're going to print money. Can you help us get a set up with this?

I said, I'll bring you over there, but it's going to be hot. So I bring the tribe in and they're all in their suits and dressed all nice and they're nice cars. And they walk up and there's four dudes in their underwear and their leather loafers and gold chains walking around. I was like, yeah, you guys will have that with this industry. It's completely fine. It's normal. It's fine. You can you can actually download videos on kryptopornhub.com.

Don't go there. Don't don't go to that website. I don't know if it I better fucking say reserve that book that one. That's almost as good as a lemon party, right?

Don't go to that one either. Don't do that. Don't tell your kids about it. Sorry. So what we did for the investors is we wrote a smart contract, right? So this is basically. Hold on, hold on. So you're mining. Yes. And you're creating global warming in a building. All of it.

all of the global warming, you have created it. You are solely responsible for the ice-capped melting. What are we doing? Did you even buy any carbon credits to offset your footprint? Selfish, son of a bitch. Son of a bitch. All right, so how do you go from mining Ethereum, which is a cryptocurrency? How do you go from that fucking crazy fantasy world to the rest of us to creating your own cryptocurrency? Like what's the bridge there?

So, let me see. Hold on one second. Let me go away. Oh, God. Oh, boy. He's going to take his pants off. He might. He might. Actually, he's probably putting pants on. I don't know if everybody knows what this is. Does everybody know what this is that listens? No, people will not. First of all, they can't hear what you're holding up.

You have to explain what that is. It looks to me like a bound book for a lot of guests that's audio only. They're not going to see what it is. I'm going to do the rest of the show in sign language then. The world's best podcast right here.

So obviously being in the firearms industry and creating a smart contract for this pool of investors, right? So every time we mine some Ethereum, it would automatically distribute on a viewable public ledger to your wallet. So if you invested 10% John and Clint invested 10%, 10% of what was mine that month would

automatically go to your wallet. There's no way for anybody to get screwed. That's the way it works for the entire program, right? So you're buying into a mining facility. That's basically what it was. Yeah. So the person that did the private equity deal, he was a oil.

like oil rig type thing. He's great fun for that. It's the same shit, right? He's like, you got this, it's producing. These people are getting it. So we produce that smart contract. So that way everybody knew they were getting paid. You can go in on that contract. You can see who got paid what? You can see everything. Well, that got my ADD brain spinning on that bound book. Do you want me to hold it up again so people can listen to me hold it? Yeah, hold it up so we can hear really effective.

It's maximum, maximum effort. So, so the bound book has always kind of blown my mind in this industry and I. To tell us what the bound book is for those of us who don't know.

I actually, you know what? I'll explain it. It's where all of the data on firearms for a manufacturer or a dealer is kept. So if I were to receive a firearm from a manufacturer, I would have to write down all this given information that ATF requires. And these guys have to do that sort of thing when they create, when they dispose of one, meaning send it to somebody or receive one.

It's the same thing. It's, it's a acquisition and disposition book. Correct. But to break it down to stupid 1940s process, right? I am going down to my CNC machine. I am pulling off a lower. I'm putting part number one, two, three on this lower. And then I'm going to mail you a piece of paper, John, with that lower and you're going to get it in and you're going to write inside of your piece of paper book that you have that, right?

Yeah, you got the copy of my piece of paper, right? So this is like in my mind, like super archaic. So there's got to be a better way to do this. It's paying the ass for the guys on the floor upstairs. You got different sets of books. So on Ethereum, we created basically on the blockchain, the bound book. At the time we did that, ATF was like,

Nah, we don't. We kind of like this book thing. It's neat and it's worked real well for us. Fast forward a few years and you have Fast Bound and I think there's another company out there. But Fast Bound had the largest market share in making life very easy for manufacturers, for FFLs to operate and do business.

Now they offer more than just a bound book. They have some internal shop management, ERP type systems, things like that. But that was kind of the green light from the ATF that this is okay to be able to manufacture inside of this software, send it out and do everything that you normally would do with this shitty book from the 1940s, right? Now it's going to be done on a private, unhackable, irrefutable public ledger.

I've seen your head turn. Well, I think the terminology, and this is a problem with cryptocurrency in general, the terminology is, and this was one of the first things I said to you, is completely made the fuck up.

Yeah, we just like arbitrarily started naming things. Yeah. Some nerd in a basement that invented all this crap or came up with it just started naming things. So when you say blockchain and you say it's stored and it's unhackable, what the fuck does that mean? I mean, so like Bitcoin runs on SHA 256 algorithm. So that's like, here we go. Here we go.

My brain hurts. So basically, how we made this is a graphic user interface, a GUI, right? The consumer will be able to get into and use the bound book so simple, it will look just like regular web two, which is our current technology, but it will be on web three.

Okay. What is web three? That is blockchain. So everything that you see in my mind, and I've said this for years.

I think people will use this and they won't even know that it's not just a cloud based software, it's irrefutable and unhackable and you can get to it on any browser, very similar to a cloud base. But I think like Clint's been asking some questions about like an XRP and like all these other cryptocurrencies that are, you know, have these armies behind them that are now

Pushing these transactions and people that don't understand it tell me well nobody's gonna fucking use that and I'm like I think you're already using a lot of it You just don't know it so right now obviously I need a haircut I'm gonna go get a haircut I'm gonna sweat I'm gonna swipe my card and money's gonna come out of my bank account right How does that work right now John magic?

Exactly. So now we put in XRP to do the transactions or XLM one of these crypto currencies that's made to do. Okay. So XRP and what was the other one you said? XLM stellar. These are both individual crypto currencies. Correct. Okay.

So they can process like it was at 100,000 times the transactions of Visa or MasterCard it can per second. And it's way cheaper. How the fuck is that? Like, like, what's fascinating to me about that, what you just said is that Visa or MasterCard hasn't kind of bogarded that.

Oh, they're going to just join up and continue to charge you. Yeah. Right. But what I'm suggesting is that like, how have they not offered somebody gobs and gobs of money to make their jobs easier and better?

That's fascinating. So this is what it sounds like to me in my current understanding of cryptocurrency as a whole, because I think it's important for the audiences listening that may not know. Cryptocurrency almost sounds like it's undermining, and I don't mean mining in the same way. It's undermining the financial structure of the world. Is that accurate? You are bypassing the banks, essentially, right?

Well, more than that, Dave, you're bypassing the government that controls those banks. You're bypassing the, dare I say, deep state. So... Okay. So this is... I have some mind and state and I'm not suicidal. Thanks for throwing that in there. How much have you given to the Clinton Foundation?

I'm kidding. Yeah. So where I was kind of getting out with that, John, is so I'm still getting my haircut. I'm still swiping my card. Something's happening in the background right now. Most people do not understand, right? Of course. And now say they transition to instead of using Swift, they're using an XRP or the cryptocurrency and you're still going to swipe your card and it's still going to come out of your account.

Same thing with this bound book, right? Like if somebody logs into fastbound, which has a huge market share and I go, I'm going to transfer John this gun and fastbound. I click, click, click, click, it sends it to you. That transaction's done. Do you know how that works?

I mean, on a vague level, yes. So essentially, it's going to be the same thing, but more secure and irrefutable. And like I said, it's unhackable quantum computing that they've came out with, still can't hack it. One of the things, I don't know how nerdy you want me to get, but we built this out on base. So this is a layer two on Ethereum.

Okay. This is that is going to. Good grief. So what I'm, what I'm attempting to do, Dave, is make sure that people that have no fucking clue what you're talking about have some level of understanding. Yeah. When you throw out, built something on base. It's a, it's a blockchain on top of Ethereum.

So we have Ethereum, which is considered a level one, right? I'm trying to think of how to explain this. This is like the foundation of cryptocurrency, correct? For their chain, yes. And then there's a ton of cryptocurrencies that are wrote on like an ERC 20 token or

Things like that that are wrote off of Ethereum. That's why Ethereum has a very nice high value. But to transact on that, if I built this glorified spreadsheet on top of Ethereum and I went to do a transaction and went to do send this gun through the life of this gun, it might cost

$12. So base is a layer two that utilizes that blockchain technology at a fraction of the cost. So that same amount of transactions through the life of this firearm might cost three cents, which makes this much more manageable, much cheaper than the credit card fees that would go process to process as well when you get into payment aspects as

So when you say, you know, using the example of a firearm, when you say the life cycle of this firearm, you're talking about it transfers from manufacturer to dealer, dealer to individual and then potentially elsewhere, if that happens. Is that what you're referencing? I'm not sure I'm tracking. It stops at the dealer. Okay. So when that's two transactions,

When I think of what this could be, I start to spin with the possibilities. What's the intent with, what problem are we solving with this blockchain bound book? What is the perfect version of that? What are we getting?

as a community. Like we, the gun community, what do we get out of that existing? Customers or FFLs. I mean, FFLs and manufacturers, liabilities, audits, when they come swinging your door and you have a set of books downstairs of machine, you have set up here, you have an outsource set of books, you know what I mean? It creates this whole clusterfuck of potential mistakes, right?

So it really limits your exposure to the ATF to work in a software like this.

makes it way quicker to be able to find your things. Instead of us manually going through pulling four sets of books, it's 0.2 seconds to hit a button and know exactly where that firearm is. If it was destroyed, you know, all that stuff. That's just just internally. Now you fast set on to the dealers that I'm manufacturing my product, right? Just our lowers. So now you get to like a distributor or

a dealer that's got two guys trying to run the show, trying to deal with straw purchases and all the other bullshit at the counter. They can focus on their business instead of tracking down. Do you want me to hold that book up again?

loud enough. So instead of having multiple pages of these, I mean, can you imagine the number of firearms that come into a decent size dealer and how much bullshit tracking they have to do and finding things and figuring shit out with a paper system and oh, so and so didn't send their FFL. I mean, just it's just stupid shit. You have to deal with hours and hours on and to make it super simple and be able to log in and click a button in two seconds. Now what's going on? I will point out for the people listening that

ATF does not define how to do this process clearly. There's multiple ways to do it. They, I think they have like a couple quote unquote recommendations, but in general terms, ATF does not like hard answers on things. They don't like concrete answer.

Ever. They love living in this gray area. So the idea is to just make the record keeping more simplistic for business owners. Is that correct? Correct.

Okay, and the phrasing you were using was, it's going to be. It's going to be like, this is coming. What does that mean? Like, is this so fastbound already exists? What's the plan to connect it with this cryptocurrency idea? Well, John, I'm glad you asked. I'm good at this.

So Fastbound had been on a conference call. There's a lot of people that are in the industry that know the conversations that Clint and I are having with higher level manufacturers, people that want product traceability for other reasons. We get into a lot of stuff in our industry that goes beyond just what we talked about with the firearms tracking, right? So if you get

Tell me when I get in the weeds, John. I will. You're there. If you land a military contract, right? You have to have domestically-milled materials, right? And you have to have all these requirements for this firearm or this firearm, optics, mount all these products that you are sending turnkey to your end customer, right?

After Fastbound had seen what we were doing when we were having these conversations, I started telling them about these are the features we're going to add onto what you're currently doing, and it's going to be on blockchain. Fastbound came in as a founding partner into Boar, and it was very exciting.

They have really expedited our dev teams level of work because they essentially open up the hood on Tuesday on a conference call on what they're working on, what they wish they would have added to their platform to make it better and have more, you know,

They're excited to bring record keeping into the web through space, I guess, was exactly how they put it. And also add features like I just talked about for manufacturers benefit. Also, once that gets, say, it goes over to a special customer someplace, the life of that firearm, they can track that when they go to trade them in. If it's an agency, they go to sell the

lot of firearms. Here's all the original certifications for serial numbers, one through 35, with the origination of the material and all the things that were required when we bought these firearms, right? Serial numbers for all the optics that were three grand when we bought them a piece years ago, you know, all that type of information will be put in there as well, making value and tracking on secondhand market for those type of things even better.

Okay, so I want to, there's two things that have just come up in this discussion that I think is very important for people to understand, myself included. Earlier you said this stops at the dealer level. This tracking stops at the dealer level because I think individual privacy when it comes to firearms ownership is super important. Like it's very, very important to me.

to have some level of separation from the government. So essentially, once a 4473 is completed, that's it. It gets disposed to individual, and then that's no longer something that is being tracked, correct? 100%. I do not want to be a fucking big brother.

I'm a kid at heart. I have those libertarian dreams and that's my crazy views. So, I mean, scratch your head. No, I'm just... Yeah, that's totally against anything that I believe in. And also, just from a liability standpoint, it would be moronic to think, you're going to put this together and you're going to build this. It's, yeah, that would be stupid.

I agree, and I'm glad you didn't. The other thing is that this question just came to my mind, who has access to this sort of stuff? Because one of the things I think could be almost, I don't know, interesting is the best word for it, is you mentioned tracking value and things of that nature. And if people could have access to that data,

That could be good or bad, I guess. I'm not really sure where I fall on that site and like tracking that. It would be super, super restricted. Uh, so you'd have users at your stores, at your manufacturing facilities with approved logins, that type of thing. It's not just going to be out on the public blockchain where you can just, Hey, I want to look up this serial number and see the life of this firearm. So all that's going to be completely encrypted. None of that stuff would be available to the general public.

So what about ATF? ATF, if there was an issue, same thing with like fastbound, what's the other name of the other software? There's somebody else out there that does something similar. If they have to investigate something, then they can request the record of the transactions, which is requested now through this book. And it takes them what?

I think they said about eight to ten months to go through and figure out kind of the life of the firearm and all that bullshit. So this would take again about point two seconds to be able to click the button and be able to extract that if that's what's needed. Okay, and I want to make it very clear that that is required by current law.

the ability for the ATF to track things in that way. That is not something that I think a lot of firearms manufacturers would like to be doing, but I think it's important to understand that that is part of current law, so it kind of has to be there. I know people get very upset about the ATF knowing anything.

And, you know, when firearms may or may not be used in crimes and things of that nature, they start doing traces and dealers and manufacturers unfortunately have to comply with that bullshit or are encouraged to comply. I should say that.

Okay, so we've got the fastbound thing being brought up to web three to make the trend is acting in terms of firearms moving between entities more clear. Correct. Is that a very simplistic way to put that? You're so good.

Okay, so we've got that sort of, I don't know, that's like a layer of the sandwich here, okay? And there are other things going on here, and we kind of alluded to this earlier. Clint, how does this tie into the greater Second Amendment?

Well, that's a good question, John. Yeah, no, like anything, they get this fucking nerd to quit talking over here.

All right, a couple of things. Number one, we should talk about decentralized as well as part of our buzzwords. Dave, we'll come back to you if you have time after I fill a bus right here for the next nine minutes.

Here's where this truly benefits the 2A, the industry as a whole, okay? And people say 2A, I prefer to say pro-constitution because that's exactly what it is, okay? Anyone that's anti-2A is anti-constitution. And so therefore it's easy for me to put the minute compartment of the trunk of my car.

When we talked about organizations coming to manufacturers and to civilians saying, hey, we need money, we're fighting new legislation and so on, we wanted to create effectively a funding mechanism that, when I say works in perpetuity, it's indefinite. In other words,

With all these transactions, even though the fees are minimal as opposed to, say, credit card transactions, there's still money being made through those transactions, the currency being used. That money from those fees, which is very minimal, by the way,

Then is put into an account and then then we to bore the board Effectively sits down with the different pro to a organizations that we have a relationship with and You know, we stroke them a check to keep them going Where we see that being in the future is that it's you know, basically a unlimited

and just constant flow of support from the manufacturing side and of course from the consumer side without having to open up your checkbook. Does that make sense?

So this money that is being generated, where does this, you said the fees, is this the fees for shifting in the instance of the bound book, those fees associated with moving that around, that's where this is coming from? Yeah, any transaction, you know, that's utilizing the two or utilizing our contract with the blockchain, Dave. How do I describe that?

Yeah, I mean, there's several mechanisms that throw a leather for an event. There's what they call gas typically on a cryptocurrency. It's the gas is the fee to make a transaction happen, right? And every time you use that gas, typically what the creators of a cryptocurrency do is they make their cells very wealthy. They take that gas fee. So I'm going to send it to you. And then I'm going to write something on this. So I'm going to build this up. They're going to charge for that. And then say we do.

payment gateway transaction. Every time one of these levers are pulled, you're creating a fee, right? And those fees add up over the billion coins that are out there, right? Well, we'll be out there. And then what we're going to do with that is put that aside for two-way organizations. Like Clint said, there's a board of founders onto more that all have NFT. If you want to get into NFTs, we can do that too. No, no.

Not today. Those are the folks that will sit down and figure out where this is headed, what we want to get into next, and also where those funds are directed to. The attempt here is to

have this technology that is built upon the crypto coin known as Ethereum. We're using this technology that Tubor has created on top of this to fund

hopefully in perpetuity, the Second Amendment causes fighting back, basically, and the way that is done in a current basic level would be through the generation of these fees of transacting, just moving guns around the country.

That is really interesting as a whole, just like, and I understand that like, you know, obviously I have a little bit of prior knowledge to what's going on here, but I think that concept by itself is very fascinating. One of the more interesting things is that there are other ideas here, right? Because it is a, I believe the term is token,

There there are ways for people to invest in this and I'm not I want to make this very very fucking clear for people listening I am not telling you to do this. This is not financial advice. I am not playing that game We are discussing what is going on here. So keep this keep this in mind This is just a discussion right now. So people will be able to

by this currency that you're creating or this token that you're creating, correct? Correct. Yes. How does that play against the bound book and all that? These seem like very, very separate ideas. How does that work together? Trying to think how to make this very simple. How do we dumb this one down? It's complicated.

I mean, so it's almost conceptually like a value will go up based on, okay, let me back up about three more steps. So anytime over the years, when someone has asked me, what do you look for before you buy a cryptocurrency? What are the most important things you look for? You look for a technology, right? Is there something that this project does that is needed

in the world period, right? Is it going to disrupt an industry? Three, who's the team behind it, right? Have these people experienced success before? Vortex is one of the board members, companies, the founders, right? So those guys have done pretty well for themselves, I'd say. So is everyone else that's on it? I agree, Vortex.

Vortex, B-O-R-T-I-X, Vortex. And then circulating supply and a lot of these other small things that we don't really want to get into. So I guess you could liken it to you're going to be purchasing this token, right? And this would almost be like your shares in the technology of Tabor, if it was a traditional type investment.

Well, we have to speak in terms of traditional because the gun industry as a whole is traditional. When we look at it, we're not walking around with cutting edge technology, despite what these companies would like to tell you.

This is like a hundred-year-old technology in our in our pants. You know about Hara Sen? I don't I don't know what that is. Hara Sen. I feel like that's a little racist. I mean they got the little the slave children I'm kidding. I haven't been able to prove that.

I'm joking. John, real quick, you touched on something that honestly is probably the most important discussion item of this topic. Who makes up our industry? Who are we?

I understand that months ago, I've invested in Bitcoin over the years, not to the level that Dave has, but more Robinhood. I just want to see what this thing does. It's more like a slot machine to me.

It's difficult, right, to think about, okay, wait a minute. I'm a gun guy, here I'm gonna turn my screen, likes to have access to their shit. He's touching guns right now if you're listening. Yeah, touching guns. I'm sorry, yeah. I'm sorry for those of you who don't have eyes. Show them the bomb.

And and I like tangible assets and for a guy who's a prepper like myself by the way There are certain links that I've gone to to make sure that I've access To my things that are gonna, you know, keep me alive in the event that the world gets turned on its on its ear. Okay That being said Crypto and and Bitcoin is one of those things

because right now we have a currency that is can be and is manipulated by our government. Daily. Okay. Every day. Okay. We know this because we've all experienced the last four years of a president that's been printing money

Like it's going out of style and that means that this dollar that i'm holding on to i've got in my safe whatever continues to devalue. I mean i would have been going on for decades it's it's been going on well it's been going on for forever but.

When we got rid of the gold standard, when Nixon got rid of the gold standard really was a hyper moment of, okay, there is no control. We have no idea who is now controlling this anymore. Okay. And I would argue, I don't want to get into that discussion, but

What's important to know is that crypto, Bitcoin, whatever, is the next form of global currency. It cannot be controlled or manipulated by government. It can't.

Now, there might be some crazy extremists that are saying, well, Bitcoin was actually created by the CIA. That's bullshit. I give our government credit for a lot of things. That is not one that they're capable of, especially when they've spent literally the last two decades fighting against this uprising of this, because they're afraid that the people are going to stop using the dollar. So what I would encourage people to do

On their own is Start looking into crypto and Bitcoin on your own okay and look at the benefits of it and how That can be beneficial to you. No government oversight gets my attention in a hurry Okay, no government manipulation gets my attention in a hurry They can't see my transactions when I make them

Bank of America is not going to send my transactional, they can send my transactional history now. They've been doing it. They can't do it off the blockchain. They can't get into that. Decentralized. I want people to look into that because this is the next form of currency. By the way, there have been multiple forms of currency throughout history.

So I feel like, John, like this, we should almost do like a, you know, crypto Bitcoin 101, you know, discussion. I really would like the listeners to ask questions, honestly, like send us questions after they've heard this. I'll give you John's cell phone number. You can text him directly. I swear. I will fucking joke you any hour.

At any hour he never sleeps. But I would like it to be interactional because it's so fucking confusing, right? Even after Dave has explained this to me numerous times, there's still areas where I'm kind of, you know, I just don't get it, okay?

And by the way, I'm one of the founders, right? And I'm still kind of going, I don't understand this thing, okay? I don't understand this blockchain. And I'm looking for ways that I can say, hey, Dave, well, what if there was a computer chip that could process information in a phenomenal amount of rate? Couldn't they hack into the blockchain? I'm looking for those threats all the time because that's how my mind works, right?

But at the end of the day, I've made a lot of money off of Bitcoin and such, and I don't know shit about it, okay, just by making simple investments here and there. So I really feel like if you'd be willing, John, the future like we do more of these sessions, we can kind of break it down. But I'd really like to do a Q&A to be as

Open and transparent on the subject as we can be. Yeah. I mean, I encourage as much as possible. I encourage our audience to ask questions in the comments sections wherever they're doing this. You can shoot me an email. It's the guncollective at gmail.com. You can contact me and we can, you know, if we get enough questions, we'll absolutely do this again. Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be fantastic.

Dave, what do you think of closing thoughts? Oh, I mean, I was going to get into a payment gateway and all the other stuff that we're going to be working on. But I think that I probably puked so much shit. I don't think you shouldn't be upset because we only have a certain amount of time. And it's important to lay the foundation of understanding here, because this is not an easy project to understand. Yeah.

I aggressively threw questions at these guys when I was sort of brought in to start working on some of it. And I still do that all the time because I go, well, what the fuck about this? What about that?

You know, this guy saying this, you know, the world is a very difficult place to live in sometimes. And I think trying to find trustworthy people and understand things like this is not the easiest.

Yeah, and I appreciate you asking questions to break it down because just like when I was saying earlier about everybody shit on everybody in the industry in the firearms industry for asking questions, I always appreciate the questions. I just have a really hard time explaining them because I've been doing this so long and

bite-sized piece, so I appreciate you asking those questions. But to jump off kind of my end thing, where Clint's going into things are going to shift, there's going to be some type of currency that's a little bit different. In the second round of COVID bills, there was actually a draft that had a digital dollar in there to be able to fight the inflation, right? We're going to peg it to something different. We've

no place in history has had something that's not tied to anything of value, keep value, and stay in power in the history of the world, right? So when you bring up devalued, you know, we unpacked it from the gold standard, right? And look what's happened since I think something's going to happen. I know the new administration, Pete Hookstra, he's

He's a senator here in Michigan. He was out checking out the machine shop when we were doing the cryptocurrency project. And he was on Trump's cryptocurrency committee at the time. Really didn't know much about it. Nobody did. So I took him over to the mine. He got all hot and sweaty with me. It was great. But his mind was kind of blown how it went to the mine.

His mind was kind of blown on how all this stuff works. And he's very pro crypto. I know you've seen Trump values campaigning, talking about, you know, paying for, you know, stuff with cheeseburgers. I think you bought with Bitcoin and, you know, things like that and his administration's talking about creating that strategic reserve in crypto currencies. So basically the government's holding assets that appreciate and value instead of

hitting the bed. So we'll see. I personally think the government fucks up everything they touch. So we'll see where it goes. Yeah, we shall see. We shall see. Is there anything else that you guys want to say before we have to roll? Clint, do you have anything else, brother? I would just say, listen, you're going to hear two more coin. You're going to hear this quite a bit coming up in the next several weeks. We launched January 13th, right prior to shot show.

Look into it. Just look into it on your own. Go to the website, check it out. If you have questions that you want to ask us directly, go straight to the website and ask questions there. Look into the founders of the coin.

as Dean, as I'm sorry, as Dean is, as Dave was saying, we have, you know, we received a pretty high rating for this day. What's the name of that organization that gave us our 100 percent positive rating? So that's the best you can get and that very rarely happens. And the reason for that is all the things I brought up earlier, John, where

the founder stocks themselves, right? A lot of times, you don't know who's behind these projects. You don't know what they've done in the past. I mean, they

They know my mother's maiden name for Christ's sake. Yeah, yeah. So in an organization as transparent as we can be, just ask questions. That's it. Get to know, educate yourself on Bitcoin and crypto in general. And this is ahead of its time, I believe.

Someday, it'll be funny to look back on this and go, geez, why do we have to explain anything? Because this will just become all such a normal thing. But for a guy like myself, who uses cash to pay for things, it's different. So look into it.

Well, everybody out there listening, watching, et cetera, I would love to hear some feedback on this. I mean, for me personally, I live and breathe on the communication between you and I. And I think it's super important for me to understand if you guys have concerns.

I'm only a small cog in this wheel. And like I said, I do have some involvement. However, I think my guiding light is you guys. And I am very eager to hear some feedback if you guys want us to bring these two back on and learn more. We can do that. If you have questions, you can reach out to these guys. How do they get in contact with somebody to try and get some more questions answered? What's the website?

to borecoin.com. And that's T-U-E. Yes, correct. V-O-R. Correct. Got it. Awesome. That's where to go to borecoin.com and

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