Sir Kensington's: Scott Norton and Mark Ramadan

Podcast Summary

• The Power of Storytelling in Brand Success: Crafting engaging narratives, even if fictional, can captivate consumers and lead to brand growth and success.

  The power of storytelling can make a significant impact on consumer perception and brand success. The founders of Sir Kensington's, Mark Ramadan and Scott Norton, created a fictional story about an aristocrat named Sir Kensington as a marketing strategy for their ketchup brand. Despite the story being intentionally made up, the unique and intriguing packaging attracted consumers to try their product. This approach proved to be successful, with over two and a half million jars of ketchup sold by 2015. The story not only captivated consumers but also led to growth and eventually caught the attention of Unilever. This highlights the importance of crafting engaging narratives that resonate with consumers, even if they are not entirely true.

• Unlikely Friendship, Unlikely Success: Embracing new ideas and partnerships can lead to unexpected success.

  A deep friendship and business partnership can be born out of contrasting backgrounds and interests. Scott and Mark, despite their differences, found common ground in their lunches where they discussed ideas and career plans. Their friendship was built on being co-conspirators and supporting each other's aspirations. It was during their senior year of college that Scott came across the idea of gourmet ketchup, which initially seemed unlikely to succeed. However, Mark's infectious positive energy and willingness to explore new opportunities led them to embark on a time-bound experiment. They decided to make the ketchup themselves, setting the foundation for a successful business venture. This story teaches us the power of saying "yes" to new ideas and embracing unexpected partnerships.

• Thinking Outside the Ketchup Bottle: Disrupting an industry requires challenging established norms and thinking creatively to differentiate your product from the competition.

  Mark and Scott saw a gap in the market for innovation in ketchup. They recognized that while Heinz had dominated the ketchup industry for years, there hadn't been any significant changes or competition in the market for 70 years. They understood that market dominance isn't solely determined by the formula of a product, but also by factors such as brand perception, consumer preferences, and emotional experiences. To differentiate their gourmet ketchup from Heinz, they decided to take a completely opposite approach. They opted for glass packaging instead of plastic, a wide-mouth jar for scooping instead of squeezing, and presented it as an English alternative to traditional American ketchup. Their key takeaway was that disrupting an industry requires thinking outside the box and challenging established norms.

• The Power of Emotional Connection in Branding: Creating a memorable brand involves going beyond product names and instead incorporating emotions and storytelling to establish a unique identity that resonates with consumers.

  Creating a compelling and memorable brand requires sparking an emotional connection with consumers. Scott and Mark wanted to break away from boring names like "Scott's ketchup" and instead created a character, Sir Kensington, to embody the fancy and upper crust attitude they wanted to convey. They understood that food is subjective, but they believed that if they could make people smile with their brand and packaging, it would stand out from the competition. They didn't approach this process with spreadsheets and market analysis, but rather with a sense of fun and creativity. The idea was to create a story and a character that people could imagine a whole world around, and that's exactly what they did with Sir Kensington's ketchup.

• Turning Passion into a Unique Ketchup Creation: With determination and a willingness to learn, anyone can transform their passion into a successful product, even without formal training or experience.

  Scott Norton and Mark Ramadan started their journey of creating ketchup with no culinary training or experience. They began by googling recipes and experimenting with different variations of ketchup. They learned along the way that making ketchup at home is not easy, as the industrial process of rehydrating paste is difficult to replicate. They faced challenges, such as air bubbles in the ketchup that would burst and splatter tomato all over the kitchen. Despite these obstacles, they persevered and even hosted a tasting party to gather feedback from their community. This event helped them develop a fan base and introduced people to the idea of their unique ketchup.

• Unique Recipes and Packaging: Sir Kensington's Journey to Stand Out in the Ketchup Market: Sir Kensington's differentiated itself through innovative recipes and packaging, showcasing a homemade taste and a high-end experience. They overcame challenges with creativity and limited resources to successfully market their product.

  Sir Kensington's ketchup differentiated itself from the competition by creating unique recipes that were chunky and flavored, resembling homemade sauce rather than an industrial product. They incorporated ingredients like lime juice, cilantro, Chipotle, and other spices to provide a distinct taste experience. Another key differentiator was the decision to package the ketchup in a glass jar instead of a squeezable plastic bottle, evoking a high-end European preserve and encouraging customers to savor each teaspoon. However, their journey was not without challenges, as they had to navigate finding a glass manufacturer and separate lid supplier, as well as improvising with tools like a Gatorade bottle as a makeshift funnel. Despite limited financial resources, they successfully marketed their product through ketchup tasting parties and a creative event that attracted customers.

• Uncovering Hidden Potential and Embracing Unexpected Opportunities: Success can come from unlikely places, so it's crucial to have an open mind and not dismiss ideas based on preconceived notions of what makes a viable business.

  Scott and Mark initially didn't see the potential of turning Sir Kensington's into a viable business because they were surrounded by tech startups like Facebook and Airbnb. They didn't believe a physical products business, specifically one based on tomato concentrate, could succeed as a startup idea. However, when they decided to have some fun by creating fake letterhead and accusing their campus newspaper of stealing the recipe, they caught the attention of someone connected to a large agricultural business. This person, Wynn Bennett, saw the potential and offered to continue the project. This teaches us that sometimes, opportunities and potential success can come from unexpected sources, and it's important to keep an open mind and not limit our ideas based on preconceived notions of what makes a viable business.

• Different paths, shared ketchup samples, and diverse strengths shaped the journey of Sir Kensington's founders.: Building a successful venture requires diverse strengths and a strong connection, as seen in the journey of Sir Kensington's founders, Mark and Scott.

  In short, one big takeaway from this conversation is that Mark and Scott had different paths and experiences that eventually led them to start Sir Kensington's. Despite working in separate countries and industries, they maintained a strong connection through regular Skype meetings and sharing ketchup samples. Mark's decision to commit full-time to Sir Kensington's in early 2010 marked a turning point for the business, as it signaled that they were ready to take more significant steps. Scott, initially surprised by Mark's commitment, recognized the potential and decided to join him. Their different skill sets and interests complemented each other, with Scott focusing on branding and storytelling, while Mark tackled operations and distribution. This highlights the importance of diverse strengths in building a successful venture. Ultimately, they had to raise capital to establish Sir Kensington's as a professional operation.

• Resourcefulness and Determination in Starting a Food Company: Success in launching a new venture requires determination, adaptability, and thinking outside the box, even in challenging situations.

  When starting a food company without much experience or financial backing, it often requires resourcefulness and creative problem-solving. Mark Ramadan and his partner had to find alternative funding sources, such as their own parents, to afford the minimum order quantity. They also faced challenges in logistics, with the pallets of ketchup being shipped across the country and stored in Mark's apartment. Despite the difficult circumstances, they persisted, even going door to door to promote their gourmet ketchup. This underscores the importance of determination and adaptability when launching a new venture. It shows that success can be achieved through perseverance and thinking outside the box, even in challenging situations.

• Navigating Equity Distribution for Co-Founders: A Case Study: Transparency, open communication, and a willingness to reevaluate are crucial when dividing equity among co-founders based on their contributions and responsibilities.

  When starting a business and dividing equity among co-founders, it's important to have transparent and honest discussions. In the case of Mark and Scott, initially splitting the equity evenly was easy because no one was working full-time on the business. However, when Mark decided to go full-time, a renegotiation became necessary to reflect the increased commitment and workload. This process was not without its challenges, as negotiations can often leave everyone feeling somewhat unhappy. It highlights the importance of open communication, willingness to reevaluate, and finding a fair distribution that aligns with the contributions and responsibilities of each team member.

• The importance of giving and taking, thorough research, and accurate information.: Giving is a permanent act, research and communication are essential, and piquing curiosity can lead to success but requires dedicated promotion.

  Once you give someone something, you cannot take it away. The emotional experience of having something taken away is difficult and stressful. It can lead to feelings of being the only one doing anything, even though that may not be true. Additionally, it is important to thoroughly research and communicate with manufacturers to avoid mistakes and misinterpretations. The example of mistakenly labeling products as kosher shows the importance of double-checking and ensuring accurate information. Despite launching with a high price point, selling a $9 jar of ketchup can be advantageous because it piques the curiosity of customers and offers an interesting proposition for retailers. However, it may require spending significant time behind demo tables to promote the product.

• Understanding consumer perceptions and choosing the right distribution channels for business success.: To position a product as an everyday staple, it is important to focus on distribution through natural grocery stores and build relationships with consumers.

  Consumers have different perceptions and expectations when it comes to everyday food items versus specialty food items. For the founders of the ketchup brand, it became clear that they wanted to position their product as an everyday staple rather than a special occasion item found in specialty stores like Williams Sonoma. They realized that to achieve this, they needed to focus on distribution through grocery stores, particularly natural grocery stores like Whole Foods. While they initially started with a focus on the specialty channel, they later recognized the importance of being seen as a natural brand. This shift required building relationships, adjusting pricing, and showing improvement over time. This experience highlights the significance of understanding consumer perceptions and choosing the right distribution channels to achieve business goals.

• Targeting the Food Service Industry: Sir Kensington's Successful Marketing Strategy: By targeting renowned restaurants and hotels, Sir Kensington's gained brand exposure and credibility, ultimately differentiating themselves from the dominant brand in the premium food service space.

  Sir Kensington's successful marketing strategy focused on targeting the food service industry, including restaurants and other establishments where ketchup is consumed on premise for free. By establishing a presence in renowned restaurants and hotels, not only did they create a revenue channel, but they also gained valuable marketing exposure. This approach allowed Sir Kensington's to differentiate themselves from the dominant brand, Heinz, in the premium food service space. However, penetrating the food service industry was not easy, requiring persistence and constant effort to convince chefs and establishments to give their product a chance. Although the majority of their revenue eventually came from grocery stores, their initial focus on the food service industry played a crucial role in building brand recognition and credibility.

• Pricing and profit margins: the difference between retailers and restaurants: Restaurants face unique challenges in adopting new products due to tight profit margins and the cost of giving away certain items. Financing and investor support are crucial for growth in the food industry.

  The business models of retailers and restaurants differ when it comes to pricing and profit margins. For a retailer, higher product prices often mean more profit when they sell it. However, in the restaurant industry, giving away certain items like ketchup means that every time they serve it, they're losing money. This makes it challenging for a new product, even if it's premium and slightly more expensive, to be adopted by restaurants due to their tight profit margins. Additionally, the financing and growth of a new business in the food industry can be difficult, requiring multiple rounds of funding and support from investors. Ultimately, expanding into new product categories can significantly impact and transform a business.

• The Journey to Success: Transforming Homemade Mayonnaise into a Thriving Condiment Brand: By innovating with unique flavors and creating a thick, creamy texture without additives, a mayo brand differentiated itself and expanded its market, ultimately becoming a successful condiments business.

  Mayonnaise, despite being a product that can easily be made at home, had the potential to be transformed and become a successful condiment brand with innovation and unique flavors. The misconception that mayonnaise was demonized in America created an opportunity for a new and premium mayo brand to thrive. By focusing on creating a thick and creamy mayo without pumping in air or nitrogen and using more egg yolk, they were able to differentiate themselves and offer a homemade-like taste. Additionally, by introducing flavored mayonnaises like sriracha and Chipotle, they expanded the merchandising assortment and grew the category, forging strong partnerships with grocery stores. Ultimately, they shifted from being a ketchup business to a successful condiments business.

• Success through Adaptability and Listening to Consumers: Sir Kensington's success can be attributed to their ability to adapt, listen to consumer preferences, and utilize effective marketing strategies, proving the importance of these factors in achieving success.

  Sir Kensington's success lies in their ability to pivot and listen to the market. While their ketchup business wasn't catching on, they quickly realized the potential in their mayonnaise and mustard lines. They constantly sought feedback and made improvements to their products based on consumer preferences, making them more palatable and attainable. By embracing category conventions, like using squeeze bottles, they were able to increase sales and attract more customers. Additionally, their success wasn't solely reliant on digital marketing tactics, but also on old-fashioned, in-person marketing that helped them connect with consumers effectively. This shows the importance of adaptability, customer feedback, and finding the right marketing strategies for your product.

• The Power of In-Store Demos in Growing a Brand: Investing in in-store demos can lead to immediate sales and repeat purchases, showcasing product taste and gaining consumer trust, ultimately driving brand growth.

  Investing in in-store demos can be a powerful strategy for growing a brand. This was the approach taken by Scott Norton and his team at Sir Kensington's, a condiment company. Despite being a glass product and expensive to ship, they recognized that letting customers taste the product in-store led to immediate sales and repeat purchases. To make this strategy work, they guaranteed grocery stores that they would sell through any inventory by continuously conducting demos until it was gone. Instead of spending their raised funds on internet ads, they put their focus and money into in-store demos, which proved to be effective in showcasing the taste and gaining consumer trust. This ground game approach, along with an eventual investment in advertising, helped Sir Kensington's become the number one condiment brand in Whole Foods and demonstrated their potential for further growth.

• Unconventional Marketing: The French Fry Museum Success Story: Thinking outside the box and implementing unique marketing strategies can create significant brand awareness and publicity, even with a limited budget.

  Thinking creatively and executing unconventional marketing strategies can have a significant impact without breaking the bank. Instead of spending money on traditional advertising methods, the company decided to create a museum of french fries. By showcasing unique french fries from different restaurants and incorporating elements of history and art into the exhibit, they were able to generate buzz and attract a large number of visitors. The museum garnered attention from major media outlets and even international platforms, resulting in widespread publicity and brand awareness. With a budget of $75,000, this unconventional marketing approach proved to be a worthwhile investment and demonstrated the power of creative thinking in driving success.

• Reevaluating Co-founder Roles as a Business Grows: Adapting and redefining co-founder roles is crucial for sustained success, as disagreements and conflicts may arise when responsibilities no longer align with the company's needs.

  As a business grows and becomes more established, the roles and responsibilities of co-founders may need to be reevaluated. When Mark and Scott started their company, they both wore multiple hats and made decisions together. However, as the business expanded and the team grew, it became apparent that Scott's experience in his role as CMO was not sufficient to meet the company's evolving marketing needs. This created tension and confusion within the organization. When seeking advice on how to address the situation, Mark discovered that disagreements and conflicts between co-founders are common, and the solution often involves removing one of the co-founders from the business. This highlights the importance of adapting and redefining roles as a startup progresses to ensure the right expertise is in place for continued success.

• Making Difficult Decision for Long-term Success: Leaders should have the courage to make tough decisions and take risks for the growth and improvement of their organization.

  Sometimes in business, tough decisions have to be made for the long-term success of the company. Mark and Scott found themselves at a crossroads where they needed a professional CMO, but Scott's role was uncertain. Instead of accepting defeat, Mark fought for a different path. He proposed that Scott step away from the business for a few months and then come back in a new role. This decision was not easy for either of them, but it was necessary for the growth of the company. Sometimes, as leaders, we have to make difficult choices and have the courage to take risks for the betterment of the organization.

• Reflecting on Purpose and Creating a Coherent System: By formalizing culture and values, focusing on people and mission, and embracing unexpected opportunities, Sir Kensington's achieved significant developments and alignment with B Corp values.

  Scott Norton's retreat to a cabin in the woods allowed him to reflect on what Sir Kensington's needed in order to achieve greatness. Through discussions with various individuals, including entrepreneurs and investors, he realized the importance of formalizing the company's culture and values. He returned to the business with a renewed sense of purpose and a fierce determination to create a coherent system that would define who they were as a company. This reintegration process was successful thanks to Scott's focus on the people in the business and their mission. Additionally, the meeting with Case Cro Tough, the president of Unilever North America, opened up opportunities for positive impact and alignment with the B Corp values. Despite initial hesitation from their board, this unexpected encounter eventually led to significant developments for Sir Kensington's.

• Unilever's strategic move to acquire smaller businesses aligned with their mission, ultimately benefiting both parties involved.: Unilever's acquisition of Sir Kensington's provided financial security and new collaborative opportunities, benefitting both companies and expanding their reach.

  Unilever's decision to acquire and invest in smaller, growing businesses aligned with their mission and target audience. This strategic move allowed them to shed underperforming lines and focus on brands and businesses that resonated with a younger generation and supported their vision of good and healthy food. For condiment company, Sir Kensington's, it was a pivotal moment when Unilever expressed interest in acquiring them. Despite facing tough decisions about profitability and the future direction of their business, the founders ultimately decided to seize the opportunity. This acquisition not only provided financial security but also opened doors to collaborate with a renowned acquirer, expanding their reach and potential even further.

• Navigating Challenges in Startup Acquisition: Open communication and managing expectations are crucial during the integration process of a startup acquisition.

  When a startup is acquired by a multinational company, there can be a significant culture mismatch and challenges in managing change. Scott Norton and Mark Ramadan experienced this firsthand when their company was acquired by Unilever. Despite the benefits of joining a larger sales team and gaining access to major retailers, they realized that their startup culture clashed with the more bureaucratic and risk-averse culture of Unilever. They had to navigate delicate relationships, promote psychological safety, and manage expectations as change became inevitable. One major mistake they made was falsely promising stability to their team, which ultimately eroded trust when change did occur. This highlights the importance of open communication and managing expectations during the integration process.

• The Importance of Timing in Business Ventures: Recognizing and seizing opportunities at the right time can lead to success, while missed timing can result in missed opportunities and potential regrets.

  Timing plays a crucial role in the success of businesses and acquisitions. Mark Ramadan and Scott Norton experienced both fortunate and unfortunate timing in their respective ventures. From the cathartic timing of starting an honest conversation about change with Sir Kensington's to the fortunate timing of joining the Hu brand, which eventually led to a major acquisition by Mondelez. However, they also faced the unfortunate timing of Unilever deciding to discontinue Sir Kensington's ketchup, leaving them feeling ashamed for not fully realizing the product's potential. This highlights the importance of recognizing and capitalizing on the right timing in business endeavors, as well as the consequences of missed opportunities.

• The True Value of a Company Lies in its People and Relationships: The success of a product or brand is not measured solely by its existence, but by the impact it has on people's lives and the connections it creates. Building strong relationships and fostering talent are crucial for long-term success.

  The success of a product or brand is not solely determined by its existence or longevity. Sir Kensington's ketchup may no longer exist, but its impact on people's lives and the culture it created live on. The outpouring of passion and the connections formed within the team were the true success of the brand. It served as a seed that planted the foundation for future endeavors, as team members went on to start their own food companies or become leaders in various industries. This suggests that the true value of a company lies in the people and the relationships it fosters, rather than just the product alone.

• The Delicate Balance Between Luck and Hard Work in Achieving Success: Success requires a combination of luck and hard work. It's important to seize opportunities, integrate them into your business, stay self-aware, humble, and be willing to learn as you navigate your role as a CEO.

  Both luck and hard work play a significant role in success. Scott Norton and Mark Ramadan, co-founders of Sir Kensington's, acknowledge that luck has been on their side throughout their journey. However, they also emphasize the importance of knowing what to do with the opportunities that come their way and putting in the effort to integrate those opportunities into their business. They attribute their success to self-awareness, humility, and a willingness to learn as they navigate their roles as CEOs. Despite the fact that their beloved brand, Sir Kensington's, is no longer available, their loyalty remains strong. Ultimately, this story highlights the delicate balance between luck and effort in achieving success.