Rachael & Tom on Rejecting Birth Control, PCOS & Losing my Parents

I dealt with pregnancy rage this time around. Anything that anyone almost did at that point gave me the egg. I might have had that. Your bodies, it's truly amazing, are never the same two days in a row. Whether you're on a 28, 32, 34-day cycle, throughout that time, your body's asking for different things. My father died four years ago and this is coming up on one year. They taught me great love and my kids aren't going to feel it.

A lot of women think it's really cool to miss their cycle. I felt that way and then the time came where I did have to worry about it and it flipped my world upside down. This past week we had the opportunity to sit down with Rachel and Tom Sullivan who at one point thought they weren't going to be able to have kids. After missing multiple periods in a row Rachel was diagnosed with PCOS but what her and Tom discovered is they were able to help heal her body through nutrition.

Since then, her and her husband, Tom, have gone on to have two beautiful babies, but while their family's been growing, Tom lost both his parents. In today's episode, we talk about PCOS, pregnancy rage, and how sometimes even men can struggle with postpartum depression.

Welcome back to the Unplanned Podcast, people. We have two very special guests today, Rachel and Tom Sullivan. Can we just give it up? Can we just give it up? And Matt looked at the camera and threw it out and I was like, this way. But now I'm seeing what's going on. I love it.

Thank you for being here. You have a beautiful family. Right before this, you guys were feeding kids, reading your children books. I can tell you're in the thick of the newborn stage, but then you also have a toddler. How are you guys surviving right now? Are we surviving? No.

Yeah, you travel with that. One day at a time, yeah, traveling. That's like how I got to go. That was her seventh flight. Oh, my gosh. She's a travel coach. I was a flight attendant, so I got to make sure she's getting her miles. You know what I mean? Yeah. I would say we're three months in with Rosie. We have the two and a half year old. You guys know how this goes. I think we are rediscovering ourselves, our love for each other, our new love for Rosie, right?

Yeah, I know, 100%. Do you guys get that? Oh, totally. Dude, we were out the other side at the time. I wish someone had told me, hey, by the way, just get your kid a seat on the plane or fly Southwest or you can just bring on the car seat or bring the Duna on and no one's into anything. Because we started using our Duna to help with flights. Oh my gosh, our one-year-old falls asleep on the plane now. Because the boys would just pass out. He never would fall asleep. He would try to crawl everywhere. That's asleep from 40 minutes max, but that's way better than what we were getting before.

I wish somebody, we started like, what do we got to do with the newborn? And you start going through all this stuff, right? Unpacking, getting the pumps ready. Yeah. Nobody warned me that your two-year-old might have a breakdown. Oh, Tom's saying so like, oh yeah, the biggest difference with like one to two for us. It wasn't, you know, like preparing for the newborn in the family was sudden.

And I think I care online all the time. It's like oh, what's easier like zero to one or one to two And I feel like zero to one has its own challenges because everything is so you're like reading every book You're asking for all the advice when number two came we're like we do know what

We know what we're doing. We're like, we're seasoned in this at this point. But number two threw us for a loophole because we didn't expect how our toddler would handle it all. I think it all depends on the age of your kid. She was at the point where she had just was discovering the world for the first time, I feel like. Truly understanding. Truly understanding it. Like things she wanted to do in the day, when she wanted to go to bed and she wanted to get out, if she wanted to stay in bed and play, she was getting it. She was at that point.

And then we brought home a baby. And then we brought home Rosie. And her world was plugged upside down. And that was like... It killed me. It killed Tom. It put me in a truly mental, tough spot, because I was like, my little girl, you're feeling it. And you don't know why. And you're trying to process a lot of emotions. And there was a good two months there where it really destroyed me. You were tough. You had a bit of a...

Well, you were taking care of baby. I think what did we postpartum depression? It's like one in eight males can have it, which I didn't know was a thing. When neither of us knew it was a thing. And Tom had mentioned on his Instagram story, he's like, it's been really tough for me going through all the things. And so many women were like, my husband is dealing with this. And it's not talked about ever. And this is something I wish was more vocalized.

I didn't know it was a thing either. Wait, it's like the first time I'm hearing that. Yeah, no, it's like, it's a thing. Well, you probably felt silly to say anything because it's like, okay, my wife just freaking pushed the baby. My wife pushed the baby, right? I'm the perfect giant. And I am playing on her boob every three hours is changing out her path. Like, exactly. Exactly.

So then you're just like, Tom, shut up. Yeah. Like what am I? Yeah. Was my heart to be torn for my daughter, my two year old. Yeah. Yeah. She took it. She took it rough. Like, really, really rough. This nobody's going to want to hear this at seven days, sat and slept through the night every night. No, it was like day 11.

Day 11, she slept through the night every day of her life. Really? Until we brought home a new boy and she was not slept now in three months. Yeah, I know. So it affected her that much. Yeah, no, so like, right? Like, we were good the first two weeks. I was like, holy shit, we have two babies who are like sleepers. Like, I don't know what we've done in this lifetime to get this moment. And then, you know, her anxiety started like hitting up and she would get like night terrors and start screaming in the middle of the night. And then she learned how to climb out of her crib.

And we knew that she had, like, could explore it before, but it was nothing she, like, ever tried to do. And it was, like, two nights in a row of trying to, like, well, you gotta move you to the big girl bed now. And then trying to transition a big girl bed for a toddler while also three weeks in with a newborn who were up all night. Like, it was just so much going on at one time. You have a big bad yet. Okay, well, our kid can't climb out because we put the tent on top of it. No, I'm at you, personally. For myself? Okay, I'm just kidding.

No, it makes it makes sleeping like even because we all travel and go see family we have family all over like We think it's so weird, but it's like I've seen them. I've never done them. They're so good, but he doesn't think to climb out because yeah, and I

They feel safe and feel like they're everywhere they go. Everywhere they go. They're in the same exact environment, so that makes them feel so safe, so comfortable. And we don't have issues with them sleeping. We're going to have an issue with a transition. We're big. Obviously, there's a million different techniques. We're big on she slept anywhere we brought her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

but now we're paying for some of it. So it's how it is, everything. I think that is the thing of parenting. It's like, can you be respectful for what they do? Can you look at what you do? Can we get better at it? I think that's one of the beauties of the internet. People talk trash social media and some of the things that bring it. I think one of the best things it does is I'm scared of shit and I can find people that are going through it.

Or, and if you have an open mind, like, I don't do it their way. Should I? Should I think about that? Yeah. Yeah. That's how I found out about the 10th is the first place, was actually special to me. I was like, Matt, we were like, okay, you're like, take that shot. But, yeah, we were so confident and great. And then, like, we tried to put it down for now one time without it on Sunday.

No sleep was had. So I was like, well, no, no, no, it was really bad. Like he, yeah, it was, he was in a room that had all the curtains closed. Like everything was normal for like a normal human being to sleep. But I mean, that's not a normal human. He's a very, yeah. WWE all to the pack and play. He's just not used to sleeping without it being pitch black. So he just would not go to bed until we got this. And then he was like, I can climb out of here.

Yeah, until we got the sleep tent and then boom, lights out. How long is that? One to two for you guys, just even like personally. Because everyone talks about like the, now you're still at least one on one, like you're not outnumbered. Okay, I feel like this, I feel like I might get hate for saying this, but I love.

One, I love two. I love those ages so much newborn stage, not my thing. It's just so hard. And I think part of what made it so hard though, Tom was I didn't know there was light at the end of the tunnel. I thought that my life was going to be sleepless nights being depressed, like going crazy because it's just like you are giving so much to your child to keep them alive and take care of them and love on them. And you're trying so hard just to be the best parent you possibly can be.

But there's not really an easy answer to get through that. It's just really, really hard. And that's why I feel so much for single parents who do that by themselves. I don't know. They are super humans, dude. I don't know how they do that. Because I have a supportive partner, and it was still so hard. I don't know how single parents do it.

I think, obviously, we had different issues though. Because Griffin was so young when Augie was born, he was only 13 months. I feel like he- Oh, that's back to back. Yeah. I feel like he had different sets of issues. He's actually so wonderful. Well, so basically, I feel like we had different issues. We had basically essentially two babies, not a toddler and a baby, but then Griffin mentally

was like new, no different. Like he was just like, yeah. Cause he, yeah, like this is world like we were saying, like her world had just started to realize what was happening. I think we're six months away, six months earlier. Yeah, we say the window. We're like, either we should have, I mean, whatever, we're in it, but I feel like there's little things. Number two, I will do the bad transition with Rosie. If we get to number three, like I will make sure the moment I find out right now, I'm like, we are transitioning to the big girl bad. Oh, yeah, that's bad timing.

I couldn't have predicted that, you know? I couldn't predict it. So it was just hard with her anxiety and separation, anxiety, big time. But we said last night, she crawled, well, we put her in bed with us because we're in a new environment and she won't sleep in a pack and play. But last night, I was like,

Man, I'm gonna miss these moments where she is so tiny and where she won't want to like crawl in the bed with us anymore. Like, so I'm trying to take advantage of those beings and not see it as... Oh my god, my kids, my like, I'm sleepless nights, whatever. All my space is gone. Like, I'm really just trying to...

Yeah, when she runs in the room now at night, there's a little smirk on my face. You're excited. I'm like, OK, I get a breastfeed. I'm like, that's true. Yeah, because she's still up every she's like five work every three hours wanting to be on the teeth. This is like the epitome of like to sum it up. It was day two when she was in the in her playroom and went in the corner. Oh, yeah. It was like day two of being home.

We have a playroom and she plays in there a lot, like on her own and she'll be like kind of pushes off, like very independent. And then all of a sudden, the next time, every time she needs to play since Rosie got home was pulling us in there or with her, like we needed to be there. And all of a sudden, she went in the corner, put her head down and would not look up at us.

It was like this, and I would never say that. A pouting face that I've never seen on her. And we're like, we're trying to FaceTime people. We're trying to, and she won't look up. FaceTime her friends, FaceTime our family. For an hour. Yeah, for an hour, and for a whole hour she. As parents, like, put yourself in that moment. My parents never said still, yeah. And it was like whatever we did, grabbed, presented. I was like, do you want to play with pickles? And she'd be like, do you want to eat this? Do you want to call this person? She'd be like, I'm okay.

The saddest thing I've ever experienced like that was tough Andrew had a baby to like and I have this baby who I'm like don't do this to me I'm like I feel wrecked because this baby's on me 24 7 and now I feel like my my love is being Divided and I don't want her to think that I don't love her, you know, even though I know they don't think that but yeah

When I'm here, I mean, here's the new baby. It's a transition for every member of the house, right? Like dad, mom, and then. Date nights, like our intimacy, like the love we have for each other, like, yeah. We really believe we have to love each other so they see what it is, right? So even getting that back and be kindled and, you know, it's a lot. Yeah, pregnancy was, I don't know how your pregnancy was, did you deal? So like I dealt with pregnancy rage this time around. Dude, I...

When I was reading up about you guys, I was like, man, I might need, I might have had that. It was, baby number one was like, pregnancy with satin was rainbows and butterflies and I just like felt sexy. My sex drive was great. Like, everything I was doing, I was succeeding and excelling in. I felt beautiful. I had so much confidence. And then pregnancy number two, it was like,

anything Tom did, like gave me the egg, like bugged me. It was like anything that anyone almost did at that point, I took it most out on you. I felt bad for that. But I would like intentionally, he would ask me something like, what do you want for breakfast? And I would be pissed like that as if not Tom makes like three meals a day because he's cooked. That's the way he does really. You know what I mean? And so I would just get mad if he like cooked my egg wrong.

Or just like things that you should, you should be grateful for. Right? Like I'm just so ungrateful or I would do things that I know would piss him off. Like if he would ask me to do something, like I know in my head it would make him mad. And I would like intentionally want to like do it. It was just like, I hated it. I cried. I mean, I cried like, oh, I cried every other day about it. And I was like, I hate this. There's like a demon in me. I need to get this out. Like this baby needs to come out.

We found out when we were pregnant. We found out Rachel was pregnant when we found out my mom got sick. And we lost my mom right into the beginning. So there was also just a lot of variables. There's a lot of variables. And I think that tore into it.

It's been a tough little bit, also sprinkled with the most joy ever, but it all kind of colors that season in a different way. And you guys are still prioritizing each other, and you still clearly love each other, and your kids so much.

I want to know more about this egg, though, like, were you intentionally doing the egg cooking wrong? What was going on? I got over hard egg, and if it has, like, any runny, I get, like... Oh, you want it over hard? You want no, yo, runny. No, yo, yeah. Okay. But not the green crab. And what's your technique? What's your technique to make this happen, Tom? How do you get it right every time? Just do it very carefully.

Sweet I have a lot of techniques, but you don't want to overdo it because then it gets bad So there's that right when it turns and yeah, I probably forgot right when you know there's like a little run Honestly, it was like it was the most it could be right when Rosie came out of me She's carrying the baby. She's her hormone. Yes, and we have a book on hormones and women's health here

Okay, I know her her body is going through yeah, crazy shit Yeah, that me and you will never understand 100% however, there is that difficulty of like

I'm getting beat up. I don't want to take it out on you. I do need somewhere to go to also get that out. And I'm very extremely grateful for her. It would be like the next day that she'd be like, that came out of nowhere. And to me, I was like, oh, thank God, I'm not just being a bad husband.

No, and he was being like the above and beyond and I was just everything just like I can totally relate cuz I remember even at the time I was like Can I control this cuz like I feel like I can but I also feel like another way is like I can't like yeah I was like am I is this hormones or am I just literally mean and then it wasn't until we were like Where wouldn't wasn't that we had that like first conversation post part I was like I feel

Really good. I feel good again. I feel like I can see sunshine again like and I wasn't even like aware of like all those I was like I love you Like it took a while like it wasn't even like it was like postpartum to like that carried out and was actually even worse postpartum. I feel like Yeah, actually it was definitely worse postpartum

And then it was like, I was taking three months. I'm like, how are you actually, babe? No, totally. I feel like people are talking about that. And I didn't have the contrast of like a sunshine and rainbows pregnancy. I think physically, both pregnancies, I felt pretty good and I was really grateful for that. But mentally, no. We talk about it. We kind of talk that's a big part of why the second book came. It's not like your 10 girlfriends are going through it at the same time.

And even if you have one or two, you're not on the same day. Yeah. And you can look back and try to recall it, but you are on an island going through pregnancy a lot of the times. If you really think about that, you can ask people, hey, did you have this? And they're trying to backtrack, and we're writing a book about pregnancy, and she's calling every friend, because she's like, when you started it, she wasn't pregnant.

So she actually wrote the book while pregnant, but when she wasn't, she's like, I don't remember week 13. Yeah. And I also didn't want like, like I said, my first experience was so great that I didn't want that to be the only perspective of the book.

because I did have it really good. Not that I'm saying I'm thankful for my second pregnancy being different, but I really am because it really brought a whole different perspective to the book. I've had it both ways. I've had the beautiful pregnancy where I wanna be pregnant again. And I've had the rough pregnancy where I was like, I could wait five to 10 years before I touch that. And I guess to your point, the reason I brought that up was we had to mentally reflect a lot. And it sounds like you actually did that in real time. As you're sitting there saying, man, are you okay?

I know like I love how you referred to pregnancy as being on an island because that must be so hard to be going through the most difficult thing most women probably have to that point of gone through like growing a child is a very very big deal and so going through that alone no one really understands truly

what you're going through unless they're pregnant at the same time in the same stage. So that must feel, that must feel really isolating. And then Tom, to your point, being the caregiver for someone that's going through that isolating event must also be isolating because you're like, I, I'm, you know, taking care of this, this person that I love very, very much that's doing this incredible thing for a family growing this child. But then it must have been hard for you when

Yeah, like you said, when you felt like you didn't know what to do when you were stressed and you were trying your hardest, but things weren't going the way you had planned.

Yeah, and I think it's cool that you're willing to open up about some of the struggles, too, even though you clearly love your family so much, you're so grateful for it. But I think that because people going through it can feel like, oh man, everyone's doing pregnancy and they seem to be thriving and loving their life, and I'm actually kind of having a hard time right now. And I'm feeling the opposite. Yeah. And it's really cool that you're willing to be vulnerable that way to share. We love it and we wouldn't have any other way, but it was not always easy. It was rough.

rough. Also, your journey to pregnancy, you opened up about having PCOS. Obviously, that's a big part of your guys' story. Was there ever a concern that fertility might be something that was difficult for the two of you? We found out at PCOS because we were starting on our whole fertility journey.

Oh, okay. Yeah, so I always thought we were like the couple who we weren't not not trying, right? So we didn't use birth control. And I thought like a baby would just happen. Yeah. And we were active. We were active enough. I'm like, okay, we're just chill. How active are we talking?

But, you know, it got to the point where I'm now, you know, getting nervous because we had been married three or four years and at that point, I kind of wanted a child maybe by that time.

And so I went and got checked out I had a concern that I had PCOS because there was a girl on social media at the time posting about it I had never heard of it before and I had a lot of the same Symptoms that she had won the most biggest being in your regular cycle So like I feel like a lot of women think it's like really cool to miss their cycle And it's like oh my god. I don't have my period like this is a blast

And I felt that way for a little bit where I was like three months out in my period I don't have to worry about it And then the time came where like I I did have to worry about it and it flipped my world upside down It's something that you like don't want until you don't have it and then you're like I want this so deeply and badly So yeah, I was missing my cycle

I went and got checked out and they do a list of criterias that like your body like cysts, your hormone levels maybe being off. And so I qualified for two out of the three things on this criteria list. So I was diagnosed with PCOS and they had recommended me going on birth control to regulate my cycle. And I did not want to do that because we were trying to have a child. So we took a holistic approach.

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So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals fast with RocketMoney. Go to rocketmoney.com slash unplanned today. That's rocketmoney.com slash unplanned. RocketMoney.com slash unplanned. Normally someone with PCU, like normally you try for like a year. And then if there's complications, you come back and then we take the next step. And then it was for someone with PCU us, it takes six months. And if it's not happening, then come back and we'll take the next steps.

And so we just, we went to the point where I didn't want to do birth control. So we took the holistic approach and we saw that food could impact the body and restore your cycle and balance your hormones. I love cooking. And Tom, let's cooking.

So we, yeah, we did a deep dive and because of social media, a lot of experts reached out and we got in touch with a lot of great people and like our body, me and you, our swimming pools without a filter, if we don't work out, if we don't really treat it, it doesn't get filtered out. Your bodies, it's truly amazing, are never the same two days in a row. There's always a level rising, lowering your egg moving, you have four cycles.

Yeah. In between your periods. So you, you menstruate, you go through your little teal, your follicular. Like a time is like, you don't even have more amount of period than most women. Yeah. Like I think, I can get, I can geek out on it. But the, the long and short is whether you're on a 28, 32, 34 day cycle from period end to period begin. Um, throughout that time, like you should be doing different things for your body.

Because your body's asking for different things It's the reason why if you join orange theory and you do it every single day after six months like you might get you might be good at it But there's gonna be a ten-day period in there where you're you're getting your ass kicked Yeah, because your body's kind of probably saying like maybe maybe yeah Like still work out but like do that so we got into that and your body's asking for certain foods so I started

implementing those foods based off her cycle of what her body's asking and it's, it's, and we have thousands and thousands of people that reach out and it's always three months. Cause three months is the time to flush out a lot of the hormones, a lot of the, the gut health problems, et cetera. So in three months, she had like nine symptoms, hormonal acne. Yeah, I had like my, I had really bad like hormonal acne. When her period came, I was go get the supers and put the towels down.

Like I was a heavy like I was like I needed like a towel in the bed like heavy flow. Oh, you got your period after three months before that before that so symptoms were talking about that I had beforehand. It was like I had really bad like hormonal acne My period flow was like super super heavy. I had like migraines before you start. Okay This was just like the symptoms that sometimes people don't connect but it could be a hormone problem when you got your period, but sometimes you would skip it

for, yes. Okay, so you can still get it sometimes. Yeah, I would get it like, I would get it and then go away for three months. It was like really, really heavy. So after changing the diet for three months, she was on a 28 day study. Like 28 days like a like that. I've been modulating the same days for over, for over a year we tracked up.

That is incredible. Wait, that's amazing actually to hear because I feel like sometimes I'm like, well, I mean, like if a doctor were to tell me to do birth control, I'd be like, okay, well, that's what I do. Like I wouldn't ever think twice. So that's really cool that you guys were like, no, like you had the, I don't know.

But motivation to do all that research on your own to be like, there's a different way we could go about this. I'm going to say something that every person watching this right now is thinking, Tom, you're an amazing husband. You're doing such a good job. No, but you can accept.

Yeah, I don't know. You're just clearly doing such a good job. And you spouting out those facts about women's health and women's bodies that you just knew so well. It's like you've talked about it a million times. You know your wife, and you know women so well. And it's really cool to see you step up to the plate and be that leader for your family. So that's really cool. Ultimate girl, dad. That's what I was thinking too.

I will be the first to tell you that if I didn't meet this girl I would work the corporate life till I was retired. I had did not have an emotional bone in my body. I don't think I would cry for three years in a row and I met her and she actually made me comfortable feeling the person I am. I probably cry as much as you if not more these days. I want to travel and enjoy life. I actually take it in.

So yeah, there's there is there's a yin and a yang for sure But she gave me like an actual life. I want to live and not one that was Told what I had to do if that makes sense Wow, right? That's beautiful. That's so beautiful. I'm inspired Man, I just wanted to work and get retired and do the corporate thing and I would have sucked

What was your satisfaction in the corporate world versus your satisfaction now with your life? Like out of 10 if you could rank it.

I don't even know how I could rank it. I always just wanted, like, we cook for the college meals, we do this. Like, I've always had the, like, helping bone in my body. I think that's being the oldest of 17 little cousins and, like, big families. But I also, like, my grandpa was a plumber. Like, my dad went to the Marines to get his college, and they didn't pay for it, and he worked through it.

There's just a lot of motivation that always made me want to be corporate to probably be able to afford to do the dreams I had. And that's the path I was told you had to do it. Yeah. And now we learn a different path. And I think we're doing our best to do two good things. That's awesome. And you started sharing some of your recipes. But without Rachel knowing, talking about that verve, because you got recommended the page. And that's how you found it.

Just like this page is made for me. Like it's just gotten so good. It's just my house. Why is someone in my house posting videos on Instagram? Oh, listen, I barely had Instagram. It was just to like her stuff. So she was a flight attendant. She would blog and she's always had a creative. Yeah, so I went to college for communication and creative writing. And so that was like my bread and butter, not that I necessarily wanted to be an author, but I knew I really wanted to be in like the creative space.

And so when I was a flight attendant that was kind of when like blogs were starting and all that was happening So I had a few different blogs where I would talk about all my travels and I would document they were my little diary memoirs And then Instagram happened and I kind of saw People were getting paid and making a lifestyle out of it and I was like well Maybe if I just like keep this up one day it'll amount to something

six years later, still nothing was happening. And, um, and then COVID happened and, uh, lost, I lost my job or I was furloughed. Um, and then I was flying, say what? Yeah. No, no one was fine. Things weren't happening. Um, and so Tom, you know, we were spending more time at home together and

Well, this is also we found out the PCLS. This is right. All of this happens like right when the PCOSness was happening. So Tom starts, you know, cooking for me.

And I know, I know we're going to have to document it. And like, I can get, I don't love being analytical, but I am very like historical driven. Yeah. Like, let me look back at what we did and what work we did and unlike, I need to write all this shit down somewhere. Yeah. And I need like pictures of the food and when we did it and when her cycle was and what phase we're going for.

What the LH level or what we're trying to affect and I had like Pinterest boards I had safari say that notes I have like handwritten notes and in my head I was like Instagram I can literally take the picture be like this is for the luteal phase For these reasons. Here's the recipe and that that was it

Now the reason I tell you the backstory of the social media is because Tom later on tells me that he did this and didn't wanna tell me about it because I would try to make it pretty and I would try to make it aesthetic and I would try to make it a thing. I was like, all I could think about was if she knows about this, she's gonna pull out her camera and take a picture of the food and I'm gonna have to wait till it's edited. And now I'm making three meals a day. Oh my gosh. And I'm like, and I'm gonna be annoyed with her.

Because I'm gonna be trying to just get the data. So I kept it a secret. Like I did not want her to know it until I was a little further in. But yeah, I saw on Instagram, it was like, you know how it's supposed to be the people you may know section or whatever. So it's had meal she eats and then it's at Tom Sullivan. Guys, I was so I didn't know any so I had no social media.

I was like, who is this shit? And I click on it. And it was like the first rest. It was like the first rest. It was like a miso suit that he had cooked the week before. And it was the recipe inside of it. And then it was like, hashtag PCOS, hashtag. There was like 14 hashtags. I was like, there are millions of people on this. She's not going to find that. I have like three likes. And they're like the food pages that follow you back.

And I thought it was so cute. And so I approached him on it. And I was like, what are you doing? He's like, I didn't want you to make it like this pretty thing. And I just needed to do this. And then I had made a TikTok about it. And I was like, I found out my husband had a secret Instagram account that I had been going through this hormone imbalance and that he was cooking the food. And this was his way to document it. And then Rachel Ray, it blew up.

when the TikTok that I made blew up. So this is where I'm an idiot, keeping it to myself, because then she helped. No, honestly. Because then it blows up. So the video went wild. And then USA Today did a story on us. And that took off. And then Rachel Ray reached out and said she had seen the story on USA Today and wanted us on the show. And that was crazy. We grew up watching Rachel Ray. Yeah.

I never had formal training. Yeah, it was Tom's vibe like never formal training home cook and we went on her show and By the way, it's so funny because we thought like oh being on like Rachel Ray, like maybe like we would get like a crazy following from it or whatnot. Yeah, I think we

I got like 20 followers from like being on Rachel Ray. It was because when it hit like meme pages or whatever, the video, then we would like gain the following. But I think everyone always thinks like, oh, you guys around like you're on TV, like a following will come from it. And I'm almost like off mainstream media. I feel like it really doesn't do anything anymore because people want to talk to real humans and not like. I think there's a huge shift right now in our culture and our society all over the world where people like the relatability of social media because you actually connect with like

Real humans now obviously it's still you know there's like a screen between you but that's why I love something like this like a podcast yeah, we're actually a real conversation like we're not we're not like filtering this like they would on a TV show like Rachel Ray not to not to knock Rachel Rakes what she's done is incredible but not

Rachel, if you still want to send me to your Italy home, we won't visit any time. You got to meet her. That's so cool. No, we didn't get to meet her. Oh, because it was COVID. It was Zoom. We were supposed to. We were supposed to. We did get to chat with her. I don't even matter. I've never got to embrace her. Wait, there was a Zoom? He gets to embrace her. No, I know. You know that we never do. Yeah, we run it twice. And each time was a Zoom. Thank you. A rule for our show is we only do in-person interviews. Because I feel like with the Zoom call or something, it's just not the same.

I wish I could have like hugged her. I know and she's so funny and like whatever. It's okay. That's still pretty dope. That's cool. Is she back in doing live shows?

I don't know, Rachel, what are you doing? Thank you, Rachel, call me. We're great. Are you using her cooking pants? I know she has some pretty good cooking pants. Yes, she does. When we were registering on our registry, when we got married, I remember there was a Rachel Ray set. I was like, Abby told me she was like, this is good. She is famous, and she makes pants. And I'm like, all right, we could. I don't think we even registered for those, did we? I think we just had the cheapest. We got the cheapest ones, yeah. We were like, well.

But yes, that's how that account started. That's so cool. And then it turned into a buck. In what point did you find out you were pregnant with Sutton?

into that like a comping made or just like your journey with the holistic foods and like two. So we did a year of like 13 or 14 months after, right? Yeah. Like three months, her body gets on that 28 day cycle and we tracked effort. And I think at month 13, a month 13, we really started trying. Yeah. And then it was like, because now we move like the day she will get pregnant. So we avoided those days.

We just wanted to make sure I was like I want to what we were doing at that point it was my thought process wasn't like the pregnancy itself it was I want to heal my body and I want to see if this works and I don't want like not that I don't want to get pregnant right away but I really just wanted to heal my body at that point so we did it for a whole year to see if it was

If I really was balancing my hormones, if it wasn't just a fluke, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, after like the year mark, we were like, all right, let's like fulsa and try this. And it was about like under six months. Wow. When I was trying to figure out fun questions to ask you guys, I was like, I need to do like a deep dive on their Instagram to see if there's like a

a funny, like, old memory that I could bring up or get, like, the story behind Nick's. I think when you find, like, an old photo of a couple that, like, has a funny story to it, it's always, like, it's always hilarious. And there was a photo that stuck out to me that I, it made me, I just died laughing. I had a show, Abby. I was like, what is the, what is the story? What is the story behind this picture? I got it though. I got it though. I mean, if that's the only thing, I'll send you a print.

picture with you, you did a print with you. That was our, so every week, you know, it was, this was

So the first, so obviously finding out we were pregnant was an emotional roller coaster. Yeah. We both, and I'm sure you guys do too, we have a lot of people we know that didn't get to the end of the pregnancy. And this carriages happened in silence all the time. And that was always PCOS that that heightens it.

And going to that pregnancy, we said we are not taking a single week of this for granted. Like we don't want to get through it. Yeah, we want to try it. We want to embrace this whole thing. Yeah. So one day. It was, and there's a write up in the book, but it was, I was the size of a fig and our neighbor had a fig tree and Tom, he's just so funny. He always has like the best ideas. He was like, Oh, we should like make a fig recipe. Cause the baby's the size of a fig today and I'll go pick some figs off like the fig tree and we'll like make a pizza.

and it was kind of like this no big thing and he like made a little meal for me and I thought it was cute so I documented it and I was like came in the room and I'm like honey what do we got and he's like oh we have a fig pizza because the baby's the size of a fig today and it was like it was really fun for us and it was our fun like intentional time every week to like

Remember the pregnancy and spend that time together and you know share our love and We did that the entirety of the pregnancy and that's what the second book is honey. What do we got? I love that. Yeah, and it started with a little thing

Being an intentional because you guys know how it is. It's like you find out you're pregnant. There's like doctor's appointments. Yeah, nonstop. Yeah, and then it just And then it kicks back up and then and then there's the the fear the anxiety there is everything ready are the rooms ready do we got a paint do we got a whatever and I think like Reflecting on that that was just that helped us so much. Yeah to like

To us, what's a great way to get to know somebody, what's a great way to stop, what's a great way to reflect, like around a table, around food. So for us, that was just our way to make sure we clocked back in with each other. And when we bickered about a paint color or what crib, like, hey, we're just going to eat.

Enjoy and then week week 40 you are the size of a watermelon and I had done every week like a photo and I would do like you little color Coordinations with the fruit and whatnot. We're like we got to go bake for 40 We had at this point now we had a following of people who are watching us every week showing like what recipe we're making and I was like I think I

I was like, I'm gonna do like a, a naked watermelon shoe, like an embrace woman body, like that's my favorite thing ever. And Tom was like, I'll join. And I was like, let's do this. You should have asked who took the photo. I mean, wait, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

So I'd be like okay, it's going and I make sure Tom was in frame I was on running back and forth and it was in our kitchen And we put up a little white sheet, but it'd be like all windows in our kitchen. So Tommy the neighbors walking past Wait, I feel like that's such a good couples body activity. It's like, you know babe, let's go do a photo shoot just so much fun

And take nude photos with some fruit. Like, light as well, you know. I mean, there's cantaloupes, there's plants, there's a lot of fruits, as you go through. That's so fun. And that was week 40. I never saw week 40. When did you... Oh, yeah. Both at 39. Oh, okay. Yeah. Were you induced or... I was induced that I had a scheduled C-section, so I do those both at 39.

But I'm like, week 40 seems intense. I always get to the point where I'm not ready for the baby to come yet, because I'm not ready for my life to change. I'm really bad with change, like really, really bad with change. And I remember writing in the book, like week 37, 38, like I'm, I'm still not emotionally ready for this moment to happen. And then I remember week 40, I was like, get this thing out of me and like, okay, we're ready. It's nature. You're literally like, labored birth sounds better than staying like this.

Like I just need this thing out like emotionally physically mentally all of the things I just want to meet at that point. I'm like I just want to meet you I'm gonna hold you and love on you Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, I literally I remember people saying like you won't be worried like trust me like by the time like sure There's like you know like nerves, but it's a normal like it's not like a like

as intense as if you were like just to be spurt on you. You're like something happens where like this sounds like a better option. Yeah. That sounds like we should just go and do this right now. So like obviously I totally understand you guys wanting to like send it with that photo just because you're like I want to celebrate this. I want to enjoy this pregnancy. Like you just never know like you just don't know could happen and so you just want to enjoy every bit of the pregnancy and just like live your life. What like what did you guys have any funny comments from like family or your parents that were like text?

Oh, what is the screen shot text? I play college football like my teammates were like, hey, bro So you're on Instagram, huh?

Like, you got an Oli fan? Like what's going on? My parents, they don't. I mean, everything I do at this point, they're like, oh, that's Rachel. I don't care. That's Rachel. I would concur with that. Yeah. Yeah, I just got to hit it. You know, it got put in all the guy group text. That's hilarious. Did they gang up on you or were they just teasing? I am the biggest of most of them. Yeah. They're like, well, I don't think they're what we say.

Honestly, I think they know how much like me and Rachel have fun. Yeah. And I think they like my close friends know how much that's important for me. I don't feel like there's ever like teasing as weird as that sound. Yeah. I don't have a lot of like guy like as much as like I lock a room in sports like we don't have a lot of the be tough but like my friends are like love your wife. That's awesome. So like, you know, I think it was fun.

Good. It was hard for me to press send on that button. Here we go. We black and white. It looked artistic. It was art. It seems like you guys have really good community though. Where have you guys tapped into that community and found those friends? Because I don't know, just to have even people check in on you and be like, that's a funny photo. It seems like you have good relationships. And that's a sign of a healthy person, a healthy life. How did you guys find that community?

community.

I mean, I have like the same group of 10 friends since third grade. I have like my core best friends were also like kindergarten first. And we've all done like we all went to different grades like high school and college and so on. But I've always stayed close to those like younger ones. I mean, finding friends later on in life, it's hard. Those, I feel like those really ones you go through life together. They see you, they see you through every step of the way. And so I feel like there's always like a really special bond with those people.

But even beyond that, we moved from Chicago to Raleigh. And we didn't know anybody out there except for I had a family friend who brought us in and was like, whatever you guys need from us, and we're here to support you.

welcome you to our community, and they've really taken us in, and that's become our core group. Mike and Judy, we love you. Did you meet them because they were your neighbors? Were they at a certain club you guys would attend? I have a family. My family has a lake house. Did your family have a lake house? I feel like it's a Midwest thing. No. Well, I asked family with Chicago. She said you guys... Quincy is not Chicago. I know Quincy is, but...

I feel a lot of people in Chicago have like houses or have like houses. My dad won one in a divorce, so. But yeah, so our lake house, it's a community of like 10 houses there and everyone is related except for us. My dad was partners with one of the guys who had brought property.

So it was partner. So it was partner. On the forest, I bought property there and was like, hey, my whole family's buying into this land. You know, you should come join. So he did. And that is like my second family of the people who live there. So cool. And so it was one of the daughters of one of the family members who had moved out to Raleigh. And so she already was like my cousin. Like, you know, your fake cousins. You all have those, right? Like people you call family.

And so it was nice having her to lean on and have that. And then she just opened us up into her community, which was really great. Wow, that's so cool. And are you guys big late people? Do you water ski, jet ski? Do you guys have a boat? If you have a boat, that's pretty sick. We did have a boat. Got rid of the boat. I'm like, Michigan made a boat. Yeah, we definitely lived in Chicago. Did you like crash it? Wait, this is actually funny. So, hold this brother.

I'm on a five. Me and him got real close. Okay. And before we got married, I always wanted a boat and he always wanted a boat. And we were like, at a Christmas party or something, we're like, I'm talking to Pat, his brother, and he's like, Tom, let's just, let's just get the boat together. I was like, dude, I mean, he's like, no, do it before you guys get married and face everything happens.

So we have bought it together like before we own something together. Like, okay, cool guys, leave me out of this one. Great. Do you think water sports loves sports? I don't. Okay. Actually, I hate watching sports. I think it's boring. I like playing sports. I played sports in the football baseball, basketball hockey. I don't like watching sports.

It's just more fun, please. I will love coaching them. I love the analytics of them. I like picking them up. Me and Rachel have 35 hobbies. One week you'll catch us fishing. I'm not like I'm not an athlete. Like I was a bunch more. Have you like gotten into sports now because Tom's in the sports? Sutton can take that round. No. No, we flex golf. I'll take her to go shoot around like basketball and it turns into me grabbing all of her rebounds as she throws it from half court.

I'm gonna try like, I'll, I'll, I'll appease time for a little bit. Be like, okay, can we do something else now? But we didn't know we enjoyed golf together though. We do golf together. The first time you did it. And I don't love golf. So that's, that's kind of. Well, when you, you found the ones. We had a golf and he, wait, what did you say? We're at the driving range. Okay. Do you guys do any sports together?

Not really too big. If you consider tubing behind the boat, Abby loves to be. I love tubing. She's the last queen. You're a workout. Abby's a workout, okay. She's like, yeah, you've got the last. You're a workout. Are you doing the barrel rolls and the tube? Are you getting whipped?

I will get. She can hold on. Like there's nothing you'll do to get her. I will stay. I can see you in that. I saw when you guys did the workout class. I thought I was going to see all my team. I know. She can beat us. We did a pushup competition. Guess how many pushups I did in this competition? Guess just guess. Just throw out a crazy number. She did. I don't even know. So I did 108. She beat me. Guess how many she did? I did 108. And she did more. No. So she would go. Oh, like pyramid.

Yeah, so we were taking like I was breaking out. She was doing push-ups and vice versa. So 120? I think there's either 117 or 18. Guys, she is so humble. She doesn't even remember. She's ready for the next competition. I've made the other way to her. No, she is humble though because she'll be like, I don't know if I can do like a pull-up right. I'm like, babe, you can do like when she doesn't pull up. She'll be like, it's like, I'm like, dude, you can do 50. I'm like, you are so- I don't do shit. That's too easy.

So anyway, what were we talking about? He told me to snowboard together. We snowboard. I love that spot. Heels and toes. Yeah, we played pickleball just like a couple weeks ago together. Yeah, you're getting better. You're getting better. You're doing great. No, not really. Me with a tennis racket is scary.

I'm gonna pick a ball ragged at any of the above. No, I feel I always say I feel like a giant trying to get a ping pong ball Like I just feel so clumsy like since like with the two now Do you guys have any like super intentional time? I because I we both have discovered our time apart like my one-on-one time with me alone and yeah And her having her time is important. Yeah, but like if you guys done

Because if you're not doing sports together, I know you do a lot. I know you do your workout classes. Super admirable. Like you jumping in because it's part of her life. Are there things that like dinner or night time? We have like our general rule is one day night a week, but sometimes you know life, but we just recently did like a

birthday trip to Vegas. It was like, it was probably like 36 hours or something but it was like so funny. It's like 36 hours with two is like a week and a half. It felt so long. And not away from the kids very long so you don't like you don't because if you're golfing your kids for more than two days you you go crazy you're like I need to be with my babies right? But just a really short trip do you know what the best part was of this whole trip?

Oh, sorry. Oh, no, you're good. The best part was the drive there. Five hours. I mean, she got to talk. Just me and her, no phones, no audio book, no podcasts. We're big road trip. It was amazing. That's why he chose to do a road trip. He's like, the flight is really short, but we could just road trip so we could actually just drive, which was the whole point of the trip was like to connect. Yeah. And so that was really fun. And then second best part, the freaking spa, dude. We never would have liked that before, kids. Like we would have wanted to

Do something like jump from that little thing at the top of the in Vegas. What's the thing that you can bunch? There's a space needle. We would have wanted to do those things now. Like this is wonderful. Yeah, but it's good about date nights. Yeah, we do one every Thursday. That's amazing. I love that.

And it was one of those things I remember with Sutton. It took us eight months before we went out alone. And I didn't even realize, I remember always not judging, but I was like, I don't ever want to be that parent who never has like quality time together after a kid's born. And then I remember Sutton like eight months went by and I was like,

I get it now. Like it's so much you don't understand until you understand. And I knew like number two, we both said like we want to be way more intentional about that. And so we have been.

That's awesome. What are like typical, do you do dinner a lot? I love dinner. Yeah. We're foodies. Yeah. We're like, pick a spot that we like an appetizer. And if we want to order the next thing, we'll order otherwise we're walking somewhere else. Oh, I'm fine. When we grew up in our engagements and our dating, we were living in Chicago where it's like, walk out the door, pick a direction, walk, and you'll find 10 new spots. Oh, wow. So we're big enough. We're foodies. We travel to eat. That's fun. And who plans out the date nights?

I feel like it's very, we're not like, yeah. I'm not like, you do this week, I'll do next week type person. We're pretty much like, all right, we have the night, like let's go here and then we'll figure out what we want to do after. And it's usually, we're like, there you go with the flow people. So we'll like call up a friend, see if anyone's doing a thing, meet someone at a, you know, a bar, restaurant, hop around. Somebody might have things going on, might be live music or. Live music, we love live music. Fine, I love that.

I feel like that's one of those important things you can do to take care of your marriage. If you want to be good parents, good leaders for your kids, you've got to be unified as one. I think Abraham Lincoln, one of his speeches back in the 1800s, he said, house divided amongst itself won't stand or will fall. There's a lot of truth to that. You need to be unified. I think you can't plan intentional time.

Yeah, right like you can't plans like right now. We're gonna have ten minutes of heart to heart and get to know each other Yeah, one of my favorite quotes is if if you want ten minutes quality time spend three hours, right? You're never gonna wait. That's just like dagger to the heart right there. That's so good

And with two, and as our families, hopefully, I believe you guys want your family to grow more or not, we definitely do. Yeah. The time is going to get tighter. Yeah. And what felt like a day, like what we could accomplish in a day, it feels like with two, we can accomplish in like three days now, like, right? So that whole idea of three hours to get 10 minutes, if you're rushing your day and night, if you're, if you're rushing to have a meal because you need the box Jack. Yeah.

You're not you're not going to get the intentional time being go and that like to me like I think that's why our we are go with the flow where it's like tonight's date night like we'll order the damn pizza and eat in the car. And if one of us is like you know a bowling sounds fun. Maybe we'll run and go bowling. Maybe we'll sit on the stars. Maybe we'll go to Dorothy and Dick's Park and like sit under the archo but like it's very much to just find that intentional time and

This is something like I think we're learning through. We're trying to figure out how to deal with our children as well. And that's right now Rosie's still breastfeeding, right? Tied to mom. Sutton is starting to tie to me. Yeah, it's everything is dead right now. It's, you know, we're in the car seat. No, I want data. So we're going to touch more.

Sutton loves getting her nails done. So she's starting to take it. So now it's, and yeah, now I'm taking Sutton to get her little nails done and trying to do more of like intentional one on one time. I feel like we used to do everything as like a unit. Um, and not that it doesn't work, but I feel like Sutton definitely needs that. That's interesting. I feel like we don't really separate the kids very much. They're kind of usually always like, yeah, you probably should do one on one time with each of them.

Yeah, I think especially as they get older too, like now that Griffin can talk, he can speak, like they're very short sentences, they're like three word sentences, but still he's able to communicate with us, and I think yeah, having one on one time. That's morning he said, he always, he does look out for Auggie, and like he said to us, Auggie can go down the stairs by himself, he knows to turn around and like speak down, but Griffin said, he's like, come on Auggie, because he wasn't coming down the stairs, because he was like, we're gonna have breakfast, and he's like,

Monoggy. Monoggy. And I'm like, help him down eventually. And then when Auggy finally made his way to the stairs, Griffin goes, turn around. Turn around. So I'll, then when he sounds the same way, she's like, whoa, you need, and then she like, sticks the past. She's like, she really needs that right now. And she's like, her crying, her crying. And I'm like, she's fine. She's like, she's not fine. Well, something that I think is, I know it's so cute.

Well, something that I think is absolutely beautiful about your story is you guys didn't just give your kids names because they sounded cool. That's honestly what we did. We were just like, oh, this is like, Griffin sounds sick. We're just going to name our kids. That's really good. They're middle names are meaningful, but it's like, you know what? Griffin sounds freaking dope. Let's name our kid Griffin. Oggy? Okay, August is his full name. We're like, that sounds so cool.

But with you guys, you were very intentional with the story behind your daughter's names, because you guys elaborated on that a little bit for anybody that might not know. Like we said, I went to school for creative writing. I just love storytelling. It's my favorite thing ever. You didn't want meaning and everything, and that's awesome.

You like to have meaning. I know. It's the writer in me. But so Sutton, I never was a person who had like a list in my phone of like baby names. And when we were dating, I was in North Carolina and Thomas. I was in Carbondale. Carbondale. I was kicking off my crazy. My mom grew up around there. The fact that you haven't brought her to the wineries.

Why do you have wineries there that will will blow away nappa? Hair and specifically my mom said a family entire family grew up in southern blue sky Russell Hill Killer crazy. He's friends with a coach of Q&D and Quincy what your friends with the Q&D coach and Jack Cornell we were teammates what I know

That's a big family in Quincy. Okay, for people that are confused, Abbey Group in a really tiny town in Illinois called Quincy, Illinois. It's like five hours from Chicago and it's right across the river from Hannibal, Missouri. It's really more Missouri than this is in Illinois. Yeah. And in Hannibal, everybody knows Hannibal because of Huckleberry Finn, Tom Sawyer, you know, all that.

Anyway, sorry. Small world. That's crazy. Okay, crazy. Yeah. So he was down there and I was in North Carolina and we would meet halfway, like once every couple of months or whatever, whatever we could do. But you know, back when it's dating and fun, were you drive for seven hours or six hours, one night together? In 40 minutes to be exact. And there was five hours and 40 minutes from both of us was a restaurant called Sutton's.

In Lexington, Kentucky. It was five hours of appointments for both of you. Yeah, so all of us drove that amount we would meet there. So we had mad at this restaurant. We were so cute. The owner. Yeah. Sorry. No, go ahead. His daughter was named Sutton, or the owner's daughter. All those places you go to eat, and they just make you feel at home. This is an older man. He owns it. Not older, but just he had white hair. That's why I thought of it. Yeah. Yeah. But he would check in every table.

And would be very, not like I'm the owner, just check on you. And then we were small talking and he's like, oh, I actually, I started this. And I was like, yeah, where's the name Sutton come from? And he's like, Oh, it was my daughter's name. And I had like never thought of Italian place. And he's like, which is a terrible name for Italian place, I guess. I just got chills. Like when you guys said that this old man named his restaurant after his daughter. Yeah. And I found a lot. I was always like, well, like if we were getting married one day and you have a kid, I feel like Sutton would just be like our story.

Yeah. Those little road trips got us through like well over a year of long distance dating and it was pretty typically there. Yeah. Yeah. That's so special. So that was, that was where Sutton's name came about. So then Rosie, I'm like, okay, Sutton has his baller name. I'm like, you know, not competing with it, but I do like a name that has a story and I could not think of anything. I mean, I was 37 weeks pregnant and still we did not have a name for this trial. We thought she was going into labor at 30

It was like 30. It was probably 37 weeks. I was when it probably was. We were sitting watching her. So it was like 30. She did one of these and held up her pants and it was soaked, but Sutton was laying there earlier. We don't know.

We still don't know if there's a mystery, but there was a puddle of water. And I was like, Tom, I think my water, but I was like, you need to smell it. We need to Google what's happening. We called the OB. You're number two. So, you know, you're like, you're also a little more chill. Yeah. And then it was like, you know, if any more leakage happens, like you need to get to the hospital. We were not at home and we had to make a drive back. So they told us like monitor and drive back on the drive. We're like,

We don't have a name. We don't have a name. Like not a starting point. Yeah, I had nothing. And I knew I wanted to do something with an O to Tom's mom, because she had passed while we were when I found out I was pregnant, like within the same two weeks of each other. And so I asked his sister what her favorite flower was. She was obsessed with flowers.

You asked that like right before we were with my sister at like a little vacation. So that the conversation was happening when we as we thought this and that was like we know what was Lenore's favorite father and she told me a rose and

Rose hadn't like it didn't do it for me all the way But then anyone with the baby name Rose you're good It was like I needed a little something more to it And it was like two weeks later I saw someone with the name rosy and I was like I love rosy like that to me is darling not that Rose isn't they are both darling, but it just it had more

Connection to me and What my mom's name is Lenore so her middle name's nor so it's rosy nor Sweet so she had she has a very beautiful name And it means a lot and yeah, both her children have these cute names now the third one I'm like we might as well just do a cool name that we like now

Yeah, that's so sweet. I love that story. I'm so so sorry for what you guys have been through. I mean, there's just like nothing to really say there. I just think it's so cool that you obviously are remembering your mom with your daughter's name.

That's actually, it's crazy that you guys said that because we actually did a similar thing with our son Griffin. His middle name is Abby's grandpa's middle name. And we lost him three years ago. And so him carrying that on too is really special to our family. I love that. Yeah.

A lot of people know about my mom. My father died four years ago in October. So, and, and this is coming up on one year, my mom. So raising, uh, just death in general, but like having kids and not having their grandparents or great parents or their, there is, there is like a crazy emotional thing there because you're, you guys picked it because I assume there was great love.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. And you want to honor that great love. And there is something in my mind that happens a lot. Think about my mom and dad not knowing them is they taught me great love and they're not going to my kids aren't going to feel it. They're not going to get that from them. Yeah.

But I know they'll get it from us. Yeah. And I know how important that their, my parents love is what made me me. And I was going to charge me to be a great father. Um, so I think names, when you do things like that, and you have people that drive you to be better to, as parents, to, to honor your kids. And one day, I'll grow up from like, hey,

Let me tell you about your mental name. Yeah. And that should give you butterflies because your kid's gonna feel it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I get why it holds up, holds up.

Man, you're gonna make me cry, Tom. I'm like, I'm like, you know, look, that's going in the direction now. Damn, man. He's very well-spoken. I don't have mascara, I'm just gonna start dripping somehow. I don't know. That's a really cool point that you bring up that like, even though they're not here to love on your kids, that like, in a way their love is like what's charging you. So they get to feel their love. Yeah. That's the best motivation in the world too. It's hard, but it is good.

How are you so wise? Did you have a really incredible father or grandpa? I feel like you have a lot of wisdom and maturity.

I'm an amazing father. True, my dad. My dad is, you know, some of his phrases, like just pop the mind like, Tom, like, you're gonna meet people different than you and you gotta love it. Cause if everyone was like you, this world would suck.

And he did global sales. So he was, you know, he embraced everybody who'd take an office shirt for anybody. I mean, there was nobody that wasn't his friend. And he was a reader and a thinker and me and him. We were clicked. We clicked so well that like every time we'd sit, it felt like our brain was in this first

in the same place. You know, I had a grandpa that worked his ass off. It was an alcoholic and almost cost our family everything. And when we start when the grandkids start coming, got healthy and he was the best grandpa will ever know. That's beautiful. You know, just had a lot. Yeah, family and and honestly, sadly, like starting sophomore year of college, a lot of family that died.

And when that starts to happen, you start to really like stop thinking that life will last till you're 80. And you start embracing a lot more. And it sucks. Because there's a lot of people in my life, I wish we're still here. But a lot of stuff doesn't bug me.

Right? Yeah. Little things do not get out of my mind. Probably going to be a problem at some point with our kids. Rachel, why do you think Tom has like so much wisdom? I feel like you've been through a lifetime that person shouldn't have to go through.

But it's great because she's the yink to my yank, so I'm not well-spoken like him. But I'm a great writer, and I'm very creative. And we pair so well in that sense. So it's so fun making TikToks and things. I love to use my main character.

You are my muse. I really, I think your relationship's beautiful and I admire just the love that you guys have for one another. And I admire, yeah, I admire your wisdom, Tom. And I think I admire that because I feel like I just recently realized that I've been operating as a husband and father, but without the wisdom that I should have.

I was lucky. I have, I have a lot of mentors that are 50, 60, even 70. Like I have, I have, I am very intentional at saying like, I don't know a lot. And I would say intellectually I can, I can stand up and I read and blah, blah, blah, but I don't know shit. And I think the more you say like, I don't know a damn thing. What do you know? What have you learned in your life? Yeah. Shut up and listen. Yeah. You know what I mean? And

It could be taking it and saying, I appreciate that, but I'm gonna question that one, right? Like trust but verify. I have good mentors, I really always have, that's a big one for me. And even like, I look back, sophomore year of high school is when people, my three year old cousin got hit by a drunk driver on Christmas Eve. That's what we woke up to.

And it destroyed my family systematically people dying and taking their lives from them forward. Gene Nolan, Larry Tucker, Pat Hennessey, were people at my high school that were older and wrapped their arms around me. It said, Tom, like we're here. And I left them and I listened. Like they got me through that period, you know.

So I, like I wish I could, I could tell you more, but like I trust a lot of people in my life. And I take my rails down and I shut my mouth and I listen when I need to. And I would, I would tell anybody just listen, like find good people and listen and get rid of it like we're parents now. Like the ones that drag you down, the energy suckers, the ones who make you question your marriage question, your parenthood, like seal your walls.

When that incident happened, when, when that drunk driver hit the three year old family member, Ashley, Ashley, or Ashley was your family member. Ashley was my three year old cousin. Yeah. I'm so sorry. When, when that happened,

You said these mentors came around you and surrounded you with love. That was people at your high school, older students that heard about what happened. That was my basketball coach, the principal, the school, and the counselor. I went to a private school. I drove six because of sports. I drove 60 minutes away to get to the school that academically and athletically would put me where I wanted to get, which was getting into the pros, football or basketball.

And that school was great academically and it was great athletically. So they were people I chose to go to that school because they were there. So when they saw that it was breaking me, like they knew, you know what I mean? Like drinking came out of nowhere, like playing with like experimenting with people that do drugs and hanging out with them. Because it's like what, you know, they saw it.

Yeah, when you're at that level point, it's like nothing matters anymore, probably. No, I wanted to figure out why this happened and how to hide it. It's my first time dealing with pain.

And what did they do that helped you? Just there. And being there, was it just at school? Was it outside of school, too, checking up on you? That fantasy was like, Tom, he gave me a rock to hold in my pocket. It's like, you're a rock. You keep everything emotional inside, and you smile. You make everyone else happy. And one day, you will be in big trouble. If you don't take that rock out of your pocket, and let your emotions out. Like, truly.

That was his. Gene Nolan just sat me down all the time. He knew my family personally. It was like, how's your parents doing? How's Uncle Mike doing? Have you seen, have you seen Bridget and the kids? Like, you knew my family. So it just embraced me like you would do for someone you love.

And did you feel like with having these mentors surround you and be there for you? Were you? Did you like then feel the need like since you were supported to be there for members of your family or at the time as a child where you just like, you know, like, how did you navigate? I was always the.

I'll do whatever you ask. Yeah. I was always I had the I was the oldest of a lot of little cousins who I love and our family was like this for that accident. I didn't like up till sophomore year high school. My weekends were like going to one of the aunts house. So all the aunts and uncles can go out to have dinner and I stay with all the kids. That's awesome. You know, so like

Yeah. And that's how my dad was. And I'm trying to be better because it drove my dad into a depression and there's a lot of layers to that, including him losing his siblings. But I'm trying to be more cognizant of, I definitely can't take care of myself. I have to take care of myself to take care of others. I can't always just say yes if I just get worn down all of a sudden.

I'm at a wall, right? And I can't go forward. So I'm still learning a lot of that, your help in me, obviously. I mean, I hate topics like this because they're so sad and so dark. But I guess like the hope I have in talking about this is that someone could hear this right now that is going through something like that or might be about to go through something like that.

What, what should they know? Like, what should they? I'll, I'll tell you some universal things here. If you know somebody that lost somebody, it doesn't matter if it was 10 years ago, five years ago, three years, three months, like they need to, they need to be asked about it. Yeah. And just straight up ask them. Yeah. I mean, my dad just hit four years. We get asked about my mom a lot. Like, and that's not a, it's just like my dad feels like it was yesterday. I'm still processing my dad very much. Um, the holidays are coming.

Like if you know people that lost somebody and you know it, it's in them like, just ask, throwing out. You can't force it, you can't do, you can't grill it, right? Like there's nothing worse than like a fake compliment, right? Like somebody tells you like your shoes and you're like, oh man, they could pick you up. If they said it because it's superficial, you know the difference, right? Like, give an honest like, hey, are you missing dad? Or have you thought about him? I'm thinking, like a text.

Oh my God, a text like I'm thinking of Uncle Tom or thinking your dad. Yeah, we'll give that a lot because I'm thinking about Tommy today. It doesn't necessarily have to be like a question. I think about them in a situation where they have to answer. I think about it a dozen times a day every single day, my dad and my mom. So when somebody else says they are too, it is like illuminating. Yeah. It's not sad. Yeah. It like, you know, because I'll tell you, like, oh my

We have at our house our TV screen we have always a picture slideshow going at all times and it's just photos that we've accumulated throughout the years but a lot of them are of his parents or people who are no longer with us and it's fun to see those and show Sutton and

And she'll look at a picture of your mom and be like, grandma. She was at the age where we don't know if she has that memory. But it's cool that we can show her who she is. And that's just a really special thing. One other thing, too, is somebody hearing the messages I get.

You're crazy feelings and emotion like other people have them Like when you feel guilt or sad or upset or happy about weird shit Yeah, because of somebody like as after somebody like Other people have them too like having my daughter like Rosie recently and me being like mom and dad don't get to meet you and it like really

my mom and dad don't get to meet you like really like messing me up that like the highest joy to low slow like me in the middle like the amount of times I question like should I be able to should I be allowed to feel like this I think in parents in general there's a lot of like am I allowed to feel like this so so that's a that's a big one. The question that I'm afraid to ask because of just like I cannot imagine what it would be like is

kind of like what you saw from perspectives of your, of, of the family members, the family members that ended up taking their life because of what happened. And I guess the thing that freaks me out the most is what if that were to happen to someone that I know or some, like, like one of my close relatives, right? Or what if, what if I were ever to experience the, the horror story of what your family went through, but in my own home. And so I guess my question is if something like that happens,

What do you do to maintain your sanity? As a parent, if you're a parent that loses a child, what do you do so that you don't end up taking your own life? I have nothing.

I'll be honest, everyone, I've seen a lot of people hand everyone handles it differently. Everyone takes it out. You know, I've read a lot of books on it, right? Because I'm through like, I vividly remember one of them saying like, your family member might take it all out on your family because you will take it out on the people that are closest to you because there is a subconscious that they will forgive you.

Yeah. Which is a weird, weird thing because they got angry. Like there were people angry, right? And sometimes it's easier to bring in the person and tell them all of your secrets and all of your pain. That's a stranger because you can kick them to the curb.

Right? Like it's hard to do that with family. So I honestly, I have no clue. I have none. I have a lot of reflecting right now. One of my biggest things is I've been given the advice like you're analyzing a lot. You know where your pain came from. You know.

why your shortcomings are happening a little more often. I need you to start telling the story of your dad as much as you can. And I need you to start thinking about the future and tomorrow and what you're going to do rather than analyzing the past. Yeah. So that's, that's like, and that was just in the last two weeks, three weeks. So that, that's kind of where my mind's at. I wish I could give you more. I wish I could tell somebody that's going through it like, Hey, do this. Cause I don't want you to have to live through pain. And I have no clue what that is.

and not that I have all the answers or anything. I almost feel like there's probably...

a lot of hope in community, probably, or like, even, and if you don't have community, maybe like, if you're going through something traumatic to go talk to a therapist, because that's probably the closest thing you can get to community without actually having community. If you're in a new city and you don't know anybody, you know, that's, that's hard. Thank you for being open to sharing that. I know it's, I know for a fact that's going to help someone that's listening to this. So thank you. You want to put your marriage on the line, go through it and you'll know if you get a good spot.

I mean, you ever, having kids, you gotta know you have a good spouse. Yeah. Even making the decision, I don't care when you make it, you gotta have a good spouse, because you gotta, you get it, like even at two kids, like man, you gotta be able to lean on each other.

Yeah, you're so right. I mean, there's a reason that so many marriages fail after kids because you go. I mean, that's a lot to go through as a couple, all the ups and downs of that together. And yeah, that's, that's why I love your story. Cause you guys are like making food and like, you know,

You talk a lot about having good mentors, but I know that you guys are an awesome mentor as a couple to so many, not just online, but like to all the college students you served, like think about the impact like on those people's like you're not just like

receiving wisdom from others. You are sharing that so humbly and with so much service to others too. So that's really cool. Share a little bit. I know because I know we're probably. Yeah we're probably. But share a little bit about your like the what you do with college students because it's so cool. Yeah that's beautiful.

You can take a break from me. Speaking of you. Well, okay. Hey, guys. College meals. I went to school out of state, so I didn't know anybody. I went to Appalachian State. And there is that feeling of the... Is that how you say that? Appalachian. It's not Appalachian. It's not Appalachian. No, I'm not.

Wait, wait, wait, okay, set the record straight for everyone watching this right now. It's Appalachian. It's the official way. Are you sure? 99% sure? My accent might be doing a little weird thing to it. Okay, what is your accent? Chicago accents. Chicago accents. Chicago accents. I think she picks up accents because the Chicago people are like, where is that coming from?

No, because I grew up five hours from Chicago and I couldn't put a pin on where your accent was from. But Appalachian, is that how they say it though when you're in the area? Because I feel like the locals probably know how to say it better than the people that aren't there. Yeah, well, I mean, I said Appalachian and then I went there and it's Appalachia. OK, I like it. It is really good, Matt. I feel gaslit right now because I've said Appalachian my whole life. I'm trying to think if my teacher, my head out. New Carolina is known for making names different to tell who's from there.

Both Beaufort and Beaufort. Yeah, I believe that. Sorry, I'm just trying to be back to school there. All right, back to that. Yes, yes, sorry. Sorry. No, you're good. So 12 hours from home. So my third week of college or whatever it was, it's Labor Day weekend. And it's a state school. So everyone kind of went back home. And I was alone in the dorm. And I was like,

I and I cannot be alone. I'm really bad at that. And so I called up that family friend that I had told you guys about earlier. And she said, you can come on out to Raleigh and we'll be here for the weekend and we'll host you. And I did that. And for the next four years, anytime there was like a holiday or I couldn't make it home, right, just needed a home cooked meal or just to be with a family and being a home and feel loved.

I would go over there. They were my family, my adopted family, and that's what I always called them. And so that to me felt like a big reason. Not why we started the college meals, but I love that reasoning behind it because I always felt like I wish I could just be in someone's home, even if it was for 15 minutes or have a home cooked meal from someone. But that family, friends,

had a neighbor who is our college kid Kevin. And at the time though, he was like eight when I met him. So we didn't really like know each other, but I would go over to their house for Easter. And then when we moved out to Raleigh, Tom saw him at the gym. I think I met him once at the lake house in his life at that lake house.

And I like literally like crept up into picture. I was like, that's Kevin, right? She's like, yes. I'm like, yes. I was like, go talk to him. Like, don't be a weirdo. Like, go say, Hey, I walked up and he's two weeks, three weeks in his freshman year at college at NC State, which where we live, it's like in our backyard, it's throughout our whole community status.

And COVID had just closed the dorms and the cafeterias. So he's finding an apartment. And learning how to cook and so and all of a sudden. That just went back to like my college experience. Like without like the cafeteria freshman year, you got so many other things on your mind. And you know, it's just a big transition. We had been the Rachel Ray show. She gave us a year free of groceries so I could keep cooking for my wife.

280 bucks a week. I never spent more than 75 because I'm like, it's just too much extra money for just so much. It was from misfits. We'll give them a little shout out because they were awesome. We spent 75 bucks a week in college. So I would just add some extra stuff and I would tax them. Hey, we're and of course the first one I'm like showing off to them. Like we have surf and turf like literally grilled lobster and

He's like, I'll be over. If you want to come up for dinner, Kevin's like, yeah, I'll be there. And the first few times that he came through, I would take little videos, and I'd send it to his mom, because we were friends. And I'd be like, Kevin's getting a meal, but don't worry about it. We're taking care of him. And at that point, I had 10 or so videos together. And so I made a compilation. And I posted a TikTok. And I was like, we adopted this college student named Kevin. And he returns this Tupperware. And he returned to Tupperware.

You always come in with it wash, which I'm sure is so sweet. Yeah, I'm sure they instilled. I mean, they were great parents. So they totally instilled that and have it. But after that, the TikTok went viral about it and we had so many DMs of people being like, I want someone to cook for me. And it was overwhelming the amount of people who were like, I wish that I could have a home cook me or something like this. And so I'm like, what can we just like throw up on Instagram story that we're cooking?

you know again it was a holiday it was like Labor Day weekend if you have a college ID and and you can get the rally I'll give you the address and it wasn't like coming out of our house it was like come take some food and like kind of be on your merry way because like Kevin's first 10 times we're always grabbing and go every now and then he would talk but

College remember you're busier than every like life is always a million miles an hour So it was very intentional of like you don't need to hang with us like just grab it and go hang if you need to sit on the couch football beyond always do them on Sundays

And yes, we had two, three people show up to the first meal. And Kevin and his friend being one of them, and then this girl named Krista. And she sent us a letter afterwards. It was a text. And it was saying, like, how meaningful this was to her. And that she was in between jobs and didn't have time to grab some food that day. And it just meant a lot.

And that was kind of the moment me and Tom were like, it really meant something to someone, right? And we said, as long as we have the means to be able to do it, like the funds, because we can't afford to do this. So we're doing them. We'll keep cooking. So we just took Rachel Ray's groceries. And I was like, first one's getting meatballs. Like I'll just order all the ground beef and all the ingredients. And everything's cooked to the same way Rachel asked to eat.

So that's kind of like a deep-seated meaning with the gluten-free. So I'm like, I'll just use Rachel Race. Well, we do another one and there's like seven kids. Then there's 15. Then there's 40. It just keeps crawling up. And now there's like 100 signed up. Oh my gosh. So then I'm like...

You want to sign up at this point? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You have to sign up at this point. By the way, like, I'm working a full time job. Like, this isn't, this isn't social media went like social media was how we got these students invited. And we always felt like, cause we were on Rachel Ray and Yahoo. And there was a bunch of art, like at least they could send their parents like, look, they were on this, you know what I mean? It's just some credibility to it.

Um, which was funny because one one person just the last meal selfie was like, I gotta show this one. I'm like a real person. I'm going to your tiktakers. I was like, what? So, so anyways, we got to meal like six and there's hundreds signed up. And I said, we can't afford this.

So we opened a GoFundMe and I said, as long as this is filled, I will cook. Like I don't care what I like. I love that part of it for me. Yeah. And that's part like truly that's like a healing thing for me. It puts me just in a good place like the process. Yeah. And it was we opened the GoFundMe. It's filled in like an hour and then overfilled. So then it went to hundreds of students.

So now, I mean, the signup list is thousands of students. And it's not just like, ones who were in Raleigh. So the majority. The last meal had nine. Nine universities. Yeah. So it's like, NC State Duke, UNC American Party. 1500 was the capacity for the place. It was filled in six minutes.

We had somebody like 10 hours from Ball State, Ohio to come to with their friend. It's so cool because like Yes, the meal is like probably delicious and like but it just shows

The thing that I remember really lacking, it's so funny that it was on Sundays because in college I was so sad on Sundays because that's when my family would all have a meal at my grandma's house and I'd always tell them that I'm like, I'm sad on Sundays because we'd always be with grandma and like our whole family together and now I'm just alone on Sundays and it just feels like

Not an event. So that's so cool that you're not just providing that meal. You're providing community and a sense of home and that comfort that comes with it. People ask us, they're like, well, why do they need food? Everyone just needs community. They need some of them need just a house to walk into, a break from their day. That's not our place. Our doors are just open. I don't care why you're here. Just come.

that's so there's a million reasons why people come is not for us to judge and we do we work with the universities on the back end and let them know that we have them and it's it's on those groups that their students that need food tell them to come we don't need to know they're coming let them walk in with the rest there's like you know what I mean yeah the rest of your peers and

Yeah, but yeah now it's now we used to do it like once every other week for the first We did every week then every other week Then Sutton came and then we did it monthly and now we're kind of back to that like monthly routine. We just did our first one since Rosie for Thanksgiving So cool. Yeah, you guys are so cool. That's crazy to be feeding hundreds of students like

It's wild, it's at her home, right? Does everybody freak you out with privacy and stuff at all? No, it doesn't mean. No. I'll never make a decision based off what somebody bad could do, right? Yeah. I'm not too worried. Yeah. If I would tell you this, here, you're invited. You guys ever want to come to a meal? You can help me cook. You can be a part of it. You can help serve and walk through.

You will see some of the most grateful people. The amount of people we have to bug them to go grab more Tupperware and get them. I'm so frugal. We're like, please. We're like, we're just so nice. You guys are doing this. We're like, no, like grab the food. That's so cool. Wait, what if like there was a non-for-profit that just fed people free food? Like what? There's like dozens of them.

Well, I know, but like I feel like you have to pass certain criteria. Like what if it was like literally for anybody? Like you can be a billionaire or you can have not a penny to your name and you can just come here and eat for free. Like, wouldn't that be so cool? The beer accuracy behind it's tough, but I will also give a shout out a place at the table, Raleigh. It's pay as you can. More than 80% of the people don't pay a penny. Wow. I love that. They do. It's a massive kitchen. It's great food. It's great food.

every community should have a place like that, and there are places that are making it happen. That's awesome. That gets me fired up. What you guys are doing gets me fired up. I just love to hear stories of people doing good things just because, not because of any benefit to them, just because. That's awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on our show. Thank you. This was so much fun. I really enjoyed talking to you, so thank you. This was great.

And your kids are awesome, and I know you guys need to go via be parents and do all that. So we get it. But I guess if you've listened to this whole episode, please go like buy their book. Buy their book. Can we show it? Can we show the book? What does it officially come out? What's the official date that it's out?

So, I'm gonna look at my cue about it. February 27th. Wow. It's ships. Beautiful. Let's go. February 25th. February 25th. It comes out. It's beautiful. Look at it. Beautiful. Beautiful. Wow. The photos are amazing. Yeah. The photos are amazing. Okay. The photos are amazing. Rachel.

is as honest as she was in this and writes extremely well and will make you feel like her arms are around you and make you feel like you are doing a great job. Like her writing in this, everyone looks at the photos and she organized the photos too, that's her touch. But there's writing in there that walks you through pregnancy and there's advice from both of us, the topics we hit, be intentional in this planet. Your life will change after this baby comes.

So stop right now and talk about the things you love right now. Yeah. And then get jacked up about the change. Yeah. Totally. And that's, that's the purpose of it. It would make an amazing gift. You find out a friend's pregnant. I know, right? So fun. It starts at week eight, right? Yeah. So like that's like usually ripe. You have a couple weeks to work the book. That was like our thought. That's such a perfect gift. Every week has three recipes.

And it's so perfect, too, because you don't have to think. No one wants to meal plan. You could just be like, OK, well, what are we having this week, babe? Some of them are simple. What are we having? What's our cute little thing to celebrate? There's some desserts. I showed you one of the mocktails is a cucumber like margarita. And mocktails, appetizers, Tom mixes fruit with meat, which doesn't sound good, but I promise it's delicious. I wish she was for our neighbors. I would just come over to your house all this time. Seriously, I want to make this for me. What do you got?

You busting through the bed. Heidi, what have you got? Truly right. Well, today, Matt, me and you are going to cook for Abby and Rachel. Oh, baby number three. Oh my gosh. You guys, the book is beautiful and making an amazing gift or just something to have, like, on your bookshelf in your kitchen. It's so cute. I'm so excited. And I ended with love. Yeah, you can tell so much thought and, like, genuine thought wins that.

Pick it up February 25th. Yes. Well, thank you both so much and yeah, this is this is great. So bye. So bye.