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All right, 26 minutes to eight o'clock here on Power Business, the Wednesday edition of the show and around. This time we have our Power Boardroom and tonight on our Power Boardroom, we're delving into the dynamic world where creativity meets commerce, exploring how passionate individuals in the creative industries turn their artistic vision into successful businesses.
It's no secret that in these industries, passion is the driving force, but it's the ability to balance that passion with the practicalities or practicalities rather of business that determines long-term success. And for this conversation, we're joined by two exceptional leaders who've mastered this balance. First, on the line, we have Subumabena, the founder of Duma Collective, a leading creative communications agency, rather, super, very good evening and welcome to the program.
Good evening. I'm so sorry. I couldn't be in studio. But hi, hi. And of course, we're also joined by Rhet Johan Kutsia, a renowned South African fashion designer whose innovative designs and sharp business acumen have made him a prominent name in the fashion world. And of course, Rhet Johan studio saw a very good evening to you as well.
Hey guys, thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here. You know, like, I love fashion. I love business. And when fashion and business and the business of fashion comes together, that is my sweet spot. Fantastic. And I think let's pick up from that because we are talking about striking the balance in between profitability and passion. But talk to us. Give us sort of an indication of the current landscape then specifically, you know, in fashion in terms of the creative industry. What is it looking like now?
So firstly, I am first of all an artist and and I love creating art. I love imagining these amazing things and I love bringing them alive and I love being inspired by the men and women of Africa. So that is for me the big passion but of course to bring those crazy weird and wonderful ideas to light you need cash flow and that is where I always
speak to young creatives and creatives in general and creativity is not just fashion or art, business, the creativity of business. That for me is such a hot topic because that is something that doesn't get explored enough. And I think it's really about digging deep inside of yourself and finding the why and why you are doing something that will kind of feel
your journey in life and where you are going with that. But without cash flow, there is no creativity. There is no dreams coming alive. An idea is just a dream until you make it happen. And that is where the business balance side of this is very important. And I mentor a lot of young designers. I mentor a lot of young business people.
And for me, that is where the pitfall is normally, is that we have all this talent, we have all these ideas, but we don't know how to operate the business, we don't know what the balance sheet is, we don't know what a SOP is, we don't know how to run a business. And that is what I always try and teach them. And I think that is if we can bridge that kind of gap.
That is what's going to be important. And you bridge that gap by surrounding yourself with people that you aspire to be running yourself with intelligent conversation, surrounding yourself with knowledge, reading books, listening to podcasts, listening to the show tonight. And that is how you bridge that gap. That answers your question.
Yeah. And Sibu, I want you to also weigh in here because you've built a thriving business in the world of PR, social media, as well as influencer campaigns. Talk to us about how you sort of see the current landscape. So it's a really interesting time to be a creative, simply because there are so many intelligent and brilliant creators coming to the forefront who have turned their passions into profit.
So gone other days where they used to be big fish and small ponds where only a few people knew how to kind of package their creativity into businesses that could operate in a corporate setting. Now you have more and more agencies who are able to really take what they do and offer it as a product into the market. But do so in the manner that makes sense to the economy of South Africa and how it functions. So what I would say is kind of the need for young creatives
coming into the space, the landscape is such that, or it demands that you actually have your things in order. Know what it means to function as a business, as a business in the business of creativity. Have the basics in order, ACIPC document, a tax clearance certificate, a BE affidavit, the basics. You know, because it's not, you can't get away with not knowing anymore in this information age where there's so much access to Harris Point,
There's so many podcasts. There's so much reading. You can do so much information is out there for you to package your business in a manner that makes sense. So the landscape demands of creative that they engage with the economy in a way that makes sense to the economy. It doesn't help to just be creative anymore. You've actually got to be a business person about your creativity. I love that. That is so powerful.
And now turning back to you, Kurt, I want to know now that we sort of got the lay of the land. How do you stay creative, creative, while also, you know, maintaining, you know, financial viability or commercial viability, because we know in the land, in the world of fashion, trends are always shifting. There's always something new. So how do you balance that staying creative?
You know what, as a professional that does this for a living, I've got my own. But also as a mentor, that mentor, lots of young designers, it's a completely different answer. I think for us as a professional creative, we work on data. So we listen to people and so many people don't listen.
to what the customer wants. So I'm not there with my big ego and telling you what to wear. I'm collaborating with the customer. I'm listening to them. I'm incorporating what they are telling me into what we are designing for the next season.
For young creatives, they don't have in this business for 15 years now. They don't have 15 years of data to look back at. They don't have a clientele. So that makes it a little bit trickier. And what I say there is you must just really trust your tribe. Surround yourself with people that you aspire to be like, people that's a great influence on you, and people whose opinion you can trust.
and the beginning stages of creativity it's great to get that feedback because as creators we do need to create something and then how we grow is that feedback that we get from the world, from sales like when feedback can be your mom telling you it's nice or it could be
your sales going through the roof. That all is feedback. This comment sold well, that one didn't sell well. That's all feedback. And that is something to incorporate. And when you are designing and when you are creating something that you put your heart and soul into.
It is so important to really put the ego aside and I see that struggle with people being so hungry for success and for fame and to glove their dream that they get a snippet of that and then the massive ego jumps in and it ruins and blocks everything. And with students that I mean, that is my first thing. It's like, let's get this ego.
In check, let's be humble. Let's remember that we can all learn from each other. I'm learning from you. You're learning from me. This is a collaborative experience. And if you go into something with that point of view, then you're going to get so much out of an experience. Like if you think about it, sometimes you just hear something. You just hear what you want to hear. If you read a book, when you read it the first time, you hear one message.
Next time you heard you hear a completely different message because now you've grown and you are ready to receive another message from this literature that has been there from the beginning. So I think it's really just opening yourself up creating the capacity to receive knowledge and creating your own opportunities throughout that because opportunities are around us everywhere. We're just going to have to and the key is one to see them.
And some people really like blame themselves and woe me, but it's really about standing up having a positive can-do attitude and that is what makes the difference between an entrepreneur and a super-entrepreneur.
To your point on feedback then hurt, I want to know then, as a creative, if you get that, you know, initial really spark in feedback, how should you react to that? Because there's also, you know, on the other hand, you might not get the feedback that you want and then that might, you know, inspire you to keep going and keep trying. But then what happens when you get that real sort of spark in feedback, how do you react to that?
For me, it happens all the time. And that is where you put your ego in your pocket and you pub it. And that is as simple as it is. You cannot be, this is my way. I know Oprah did it. All these people tell me the 1% of the people tell you to go out and they did exactly what they had in their mind. And they did it and it worked. That's 1%. But they're not talking about the 99% of people they did that that failed. So it is the safer way. And with business, you want to eliminate risk.
The less risky way is to listen and to take notes and to compare notes and to really get that daughter into your mind. And then when you get that, you just pivot. Now, super, I want to bring you back into the conversation. I want to know from you, you know, when it comes to managing your businesses, what strategies have you sort of used to keep the financials in check while nurturing the creator vision? Oh, my God, David, let me tell you some of the things that I did really
were operating from a place of fear. And now that I have people who are actually experts at money management working in the business, I look back and I say, wow, I guess, you know, in Zulu, they say, and that's to say where there is fear, there is no crying because I feared the tax man so much that first thing I always did was pay my tax to the effect that whenever I did an invoice, like sent out an invoice and the money gets paid,
the VAT line amount, I would always put away in the savings account for the time when it comes to me to pay my VAT because I didn't understand necessarily the accounting of, you know, VAT in and VAT out. So it was just small things that had to do with saving money for the time when the owners of that money will come and demand it. That's one too. I really was clear about the fact that the business of money is not my money as Sima Mabena. What belongs to do my collective belongs to do my collective for the purpose
of honoring the work that we have to do as doing a collective. And I paid myself a salary. I've been earning a salary since day one of running my business. Three, at a point, I've taken very long to, or I took very long to get an overdraft from the bank simply because I didn't want to rush into debt. And I used the money that we had to operate the business and for such a time as the business absolutely demanded that I go and use other people's money.
to make money. And since then, other people's money, let me tell you, is an incredible tool for you to make money in your business when you can afford it. For hiring right, at some point, when the business was ready, I was able to get in a financial manager. And this person's sole responsibility, her only job is to make sure that we are invoicing on time, we are collecting on time, and we are paying people on time. So I think
Obviously, people's businesses are operating at different levels, people who are listening right now. But if you are at a point where you have to make a hiring choice and you can afford to hire someone, let that choice be that of a financial manager so you can focus on doing all of the other stuff, all the creative stuff, the actual focus on the product because a finance person is probably the single most important hire you will ever make in the life cycle of your business.
And I think that leaves me out of my next question then, how do you manage with that? How do you manage the inclined demands while keeping the creativity intact? It's that I'm a creative who has to run a business. So most of my time is focused on doing the creative stuff because that's ultimately what brings in the money. But on the other hand, I'm not neglecting the responsibilities that come with
operating a business, especially considering that we have 47 employees. We have two buildings that we're paying for. We have, you know, really big clients who actually have a responsibility to deliver on their work and help assist achieve their KPIs. All of these responsibilities are competing in parallel, right, that you've got the demands of operating the business and the demands of creating the work that feeds the business. And my message is just focus on
on the main thing and the main thing is the product because I've hired people who were able to focus on operating the business. We have an incredible managing director who at some point actually when I hired her I had to pay more than I was paying myself because I believed in the value that she would bring so much to the business and two years later we're seeing the rewards of that and it's to say that
at different stages of your business, the business demands different versions of you. So there's a time for you to be a super creative and focus on building the product. There'll be a time for you to be a super business person and focus on getting the business of the product right. And then there'll be a time for you to be a coordinator of all of these elements because you've now
and enabled yourself to be able to recruit the right people to do the creative and to run the business. And, you know, I want to pick up on that point of bringing value and bring you in there, because not all sort of industries or sort of sectors of the creative industry bring up the same value. So talk to us about, you know, the differences. Do you see a sort of difference in maybe music? You're in fashion, there's PR as well.
Do you see a sort of difference in the value that sectors in the industry bring? Well, if you look globally, one of the top three or four richest people in the world works in fashion. Fashion can be a massive business, but it has to be a very thoughtful business because we can't just destroy the planet, so we have to be very sustainable.
Fashion can't be as cutthroat as it used to be and as ruthless. Now we have to really do fashion with the conscious and fashion with the purpose. So that changes things up a little bit. But also, any new challenge is also a very great creative challenge because how creatively do we get around this?
That's why I love the creativity of business, but I definitely think fashion is one of the probably one of the hardest things is sectors to make money in but once you work up that recipe and that's what I was loving about what people saying because every single thing she was saying is something I also preach because it's so important hiring rights surrounding yourself with amazing people and
When I just started my business, one of the first things I did is I poached my main teacher from where I studied, and she worked for me for a few years. And that's really surrounding yourself with amazing people that know so much more than you do, because as a creative, what happens with young creatives is you start, you create the brand, and then kind of you do less of the creating, but you do more of the admin, the business side, and you kind of like lose your passion, and that is where creatives then drop off because then they lose their excitement for the business.
where when you start hiring, it's really important to start investing in your own time and doing what you want to do and what drives you because you are the person that started this business. And that's very important to hire smartly. But really think about what do you need? There's amazing books out about hiring, right? Which I think everybody needs to read because that is in the end of the day that's going to free up your time for you to get back to the reason why you started the business.
And, CB, I want you to weigh in there as well. What are your sort of reflections in when you look at the various sort of sectors within the industry? Do you see some being more lucrative than others? Look, I think everything is seasonal. You know, there are times where entertainment, for instance, is really peaking. And as far as live performance is concerned, you know, in the more in the warmer months, we're seeing artists performing more.
in South Africa has now attracted international eventing properties to come in and claim a stake of this economy. So it says to me that the live eventing properties have a time in the year that they own where you have fashion coming in at certain times. And there's a time when, you know, we're seeing them on the fashion week runways and we're seeing that, okay, fashion is up now. You have the visual arts
And how they're being exported. I mean, the Nelson Montgomery of the world, their work is really taking up space in the rest of the globe and really exporting South Africa's name in that sense. And I think it all happens at different times due to various reasons. So as a creative.
I think there's a bit of a studying that you have to do in order to understand where the gaps in the market are for us as publicists, for us as communicators and people who amplify the works of other people and also the brands that exist to communicate to audiences that purchase them. We are aware of when certain products in our world at least make better money than others. So for example, with influencer campaigns,
We know our time's going, we're going to really have that department do the deliver of the business versus our talent management department where we're booking artists for events versus our event production department versus our social media department. So everything is practical and it really just goes on what you want to achieve and extract out of this economy. And it's really for you as a creative to study that and see where the opportunities to extract the most value are available to you.
Yeah, follow the cycle, I guess. I am in conversation now with seven minutes to go to eight o'clock here on Power Business. I'm in conversation with Sibu Mabena, founder at a Duma Collective, also joined by Kurt Johan Gutsia, a fashion designer and entrepreneur.
This is for our power boardroom this evening and of course you can always dial in on 0861, 987000 or WhatsApp us on 083, 303, 7093 and that's exactly what Ranzu did on the WhatsApp line and we're going to play that voice note now.
Time is the health. We really love your work. You're such a great designer. And we just want to say, keep it up. You're very talented. Your work is beautiful. You put South Africa on a map, and we really like that about you. Pray that one day I'll afford your dress. Yeah. But you're such a talented designer.
Thank you and it is that type of support that we all creative needs. I mean, it's so important for our creativity to thrive and travel the world and to be in the shopping list of all these international stars. And it really is the support like this that we all need. So I'm so happy and grateful for that because that really fuels you.
And it makes me think of young creatives that doesn't have all these amazing people that's backing them and supporting them. And that is when I always tell them is to keep pushing when there's no applause, that is the time where you have to be resilient and you have to be self-motivating, to create that passion and drive and remain them to go forward to become hajj. So thank you so much for those beautiful messages. And you can always plug shophair.com for hajj. So you can go have a look later.
Fantastic. And you know, just on that note, and as we wrap up sort of this conversation, I want to get from you, Kurt, what are the sort of trends that we can expect then from the fashion industry, particularly in South Africa going forward? You know, we've got technology that's changing the advent of AI. There's a lot of things coming into the mix. But what can we expect?
So I'm sure anybody that knows business, knows that we need to understand AI right now and that is your main focus. I've been studying AI the whole December and it's been super helpful even in fashion. It's so exciting to see where this is going.
But I think when it comes to trains, so from a business level, AI is definitely one of the up and coming trains. I mean, we saw what happened just yesterday with OpenSea, which is this completely new AI that's just taking over, which had to be too literally overnight and costing the American economy billions, which is insane. But when it comes to like more like fashion, fashion trains, you know, in South Africa, there's so many different styles and so many different aesthetics that I really
don't always like to preach trains and what you should be wearing. I think it's really about individuality and showing who you are as a person. That is basically the train. And to be confident is the biggest fashion moment in the world. So try that. Oh, on that note, there, Sibu, can you weigh in for us, you know, with the rise in of digital platforms? How do you see then the future of PR? Oh, it is bright like this one.
You know, those who go against it and those who want to fight it will perish for us who are embracing it and really taking advantage of this globalization that digitization has given us and the access to the world that digital has given us. Our is to really study it. Our is to get as much information, you know, in transit we spend a whole of December.
studying AI, that is the way to go. You actually have to learn and be obsessed with improving that which you're already doing. So for everybody who wants to get into the space of communication, entertainment, marketing, all of these really amazing crafts and fields, it actually starts by learning. That's why we go to school and we graduate and then we go into our jobs. We first have to learn how to do the things. So with the rise of digital,
the opportunities are plenty. There's so much available for people to monetize. And really, we're not all going to be able to do everything ourselves. So there's enough for everybody. So it is just to study, be obsessed with improvement, and take advantage of these opportunities to access the world and be able to do your work in a really amazing way. Yeah. Great to wrap things up then. What would be your advice into aspiring creatives wanting to come into the industry?
I think start as young as you possibly can. Start as a side hassle. There's no reason not to start. I started sewing when I was six years old. Really just start and really then get into it. Surround yourself like I said earlier with amazing people that can support you because it gets lonely.
And then stay up to date, educate yourself. There's no reason why the information is free. YouTube is free. I always think that if you don't have the funds to even get a Udemy subscription and you really can't afford to in reach yourself, YouTube, you just need a little bit of thought to tell some free wife and you can just search all these amazing people, podcasts, amazing book summaries, amazing thoughts.
Through just something as simple as YouTube. So YouTube is one of the best universities out there that is for free. So nobody has an excuse not to improve and uplift themselves. Definitely. And as you say, a lot of the stuff is free. So you can go out there and actually get it. You don't have to always. And I also like that advice about starting young because I feel a lot of South Africans sort of wait or scared to get in and then, you know,
It's such a cliche sometimes where they say that you start today, day one, and those type of things, but it is so true. And the more people can just like really understand what that means, it's you can literally get up off your couch off to the show and start following your dream just by taking that first step. And what's funny with the universes and the world is the moment you take that first step, everything else happens for you. And if it's the wrong step, then it will quickly show you. But but normally it works like that. You must just start.
Yeah, strike while the iron is hot. And that's the advice from Kurt Johan Kutsia, fashion designer and entrepreneur speaking to us this evening for our power boardroom. We're also joined by Sibumabena, the founder at Duma Collective. You've been listening to a Power 98.7 podcast. For more podcasts, visit Power987.co.za or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.