Poppy Revisits... Charithra Chandran

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. BBC sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Poppy J, and I'm just popping up on your feed to tell you that Rubina and I will be back with a brand spanking new season of Brown Girls Do It To very soon. We'll have great guests, riveting conversation, and of course, the chagney aunties are here for all your tea.

If you'd like to share with us your stories, your thoughts or dilemmas, then email browngirlsdoitto at bbc.co.uk. Or if you're over 16, you can leave us a WhatsApp message on 0796810822.

I want to share some of my favourite episodes with you over the last few seasons, and one of those is Girls to Women with Theresa Chandron, who you might have seen playing Edwina Sharma in Bridgerton. So me, Rubes and Theresa talked about the transition from being a girl to being a woman, and I remember on that particular episode, both me and Rubina, we kept referring to ourselves as girls, but I think now that I'm going to be 14, it's on the horizon and I can see it. I probably wouldn't say that I'm a girl now, I think

Now I definitely would describe myself as a woman. Sometimes in certain moments in certain spaces, like when I'm with my family, I go back to being a girl again. But I think I'm definitely owning my womanhood more now than I did when I was recording that episode.

We also talk about aging and how it gets better as you get older. And I still stand by that, by the way. I still very much stand by that. It does get better as you get older. And whenever I meet friends in their 40s, 50s, they say the exact same thing.

So there was a social clip that was shared from this particular episode that went wild. And it triggered so many people. And it's basically Theresa saying that this idea that older women are jealous and bitter of younger women and that we need to be listening to older women because they've lived our lives. And patriarchy has done that. And there have been so many comments about what is patriarchy and why is it involved here? People couldn't understand what patriarchy had to do with what Theresa was saying.

And it begged the question, do people even know what it means? So I think, certainly when we come back in season six, Rabina and I need to talk about the P-word, patriarchy. And really give it context and meaning, like, what does it mean? How does it affect women and men? Who are the upholders of patriarchy? It's everyone, it's not just men. But that's a conversation for future Poppy and Rabina. Now, over to past Poppy and Rabina.

Dear his gentle listeners, welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too. Poppy, you look rather lovely. Would you care to join me for a promenade whilst I fill you in on the latest happenings? I hear scandal has taken over the ton. Gossip is spreading like wildfire this season. Indeed it has. But before we continue, we must warn you about what lies ahead.

be forewarned. This journey will contain very strong language and content of an adult nature. However, we will try to keep to the means and manners of society. Make haste, we have an episode to begin, and royalty joining us.

This is a podcast about sex. At least it started off like that. Now we talk about everything. Everything is sex. And sex is everything. And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreak, and our hot, hot, hot takes.

I'm Poppy, and I feel like a woman when I wear a sari. I'm Rubina, and I feel like a woman when I look at my paycheck and my career and think, whoa, the world has fucked us. Why do you think the world's fucked you because of your paycheck and your career? Oh, because you get tackled. Three words. Gender pay gap. Oh shit!

Fuck, of course. Sorry. That's what I feel like a woman. Sorry. Oh, I see. I'm not getting paid as much as you. Oh, I see. Sorry. I was like, I thought you were like, they're texting me too much or something. The Asian in you was like, I don't want to get dax that much. Oh, yeah. Fair fucking hell. Yeah. Terrible. That's the time that I really feel like a woman is when I notice inequality. And I'm like, oh, that's because I'm.

Oh, I feel, I feel inequality every time I know when a waxing salon because I'm like, men do not have to do this. I feel like it's strange when you're supposed to be like some sort of empowered woman because the times I'm reminded I am a woman. It's often because I'm realizing the lack of my power. I don't want to get naked right now, but I'm constantly reminded that I'm a woman.

every single time in society from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. And it's not just the gender pay gap. It's being able to come home at night listening to music and not have to worry about what time it is. It's what male colleague got what job opportunity over me. It's people talking trash and shit behind my back. It's everything. It's all in one of the reasons why I didn't want children is because I didn't want my career to get fucked. One of the many reasons, it's constant every day all the time.

Do you, Rubina? Rubina. Do you think it was easier for you and your childhood, like, Rubina kid or Rubina woman? What was easy? Look, Rubina girl had her own set of problems. Rubina woman has a different set of problems. I honestly don't think things got easier. They were just different. I mean, maybe like the weight of responsibility is bigger on me now because I have people depending on me, but

Yeah, I think as a little girl, I also had my own issues. I'm not sure. I think women have a tough time. We do have a tough time. There's no thinking involved. We absolutely have a tough time. I loved being a kid. I suppose I stopped being a child when I was 10. It's when I was suddenly told I couldn't play outside anymore.

It's when my family and my extended family started seeing me as a woman, not as a child. I didn't get my period till I was 16. So I actually love being a kid up until the age of 10. And then you're right, 10 to fucking 19 brings a set of problems. And then 19 to now brings another set of problems. But 10 to 19, you think you're 25, 35.

Yeah, you're like 19 going on fucking 92. And then you like actually hit your like 20, 25 and you're like, actually now I'm just gonna behave like I'm 15, but have like a driving license and can drink. I feel like I'm more of a kid now than I was when I was 27. I mean, no, that's a lie. When I was like probably 22, for sure. When you talk about yourself in that third person way that you sometimes do, do you think of yourself as Poppy the Girl or Poppy the Woman? Girl. Poppy the Girl. Always the Girl.

I never refer to myself as a woman. Same. Always a girl. I want to look in the mirror, I see a girl. I see a girl. I sometimes see like a ten-year-old in the mirror. And I'm like, who the fuck is that? Yeah, yeah. I don't ever refer for myself as a woman. I'm always with my own. I mean, that's why this podcast is called Brand Girls, don't you? Not Brand Women, do it to you.

Our guest today should need no introduction. You might know her as Edwina Sharma from Netflix's steamiest period drama, Bridgerton. And she's about to take the Western by stormy here. It's Chirithra Chandran. Welcome. Welcome to Bambalsuatu. I don't know where I'm waving, but hello. Hello. Do you like art?

It's a snazzy, jazzy, brothely curtain. I love it. It's so fun. It's my favourite colour. Pink is a colour of a lot of young, like, it's a favourite colour of a lot of young girls. I think it's because Janelle Monet said we're all pink inside, so I think that's also good. No, I think it's a unifier. Maybe factually correct, right? I hope so. I'm pink inside.

Sometimes we think inside. Well, we're all pink inside. We went to a labiaplasty doctor and my lips are not pink. They're like hyperpigmented. They're like their mouth. They're like purple. They're not a labia inside or outside. Outside. In a labia and outside the labia. You're too late. Yeah, which we learned when we did our cast of our vaginas. Something's pink.

Yeah, it was fun. It was really fun. I can't imagine that's very comfortable. No, it's fine. Somebody takes plaster of Paris-type material and just puts it onto your vagina and then peels off the kind of inversion so it does the inside and then puts that into a mold. Oh, so it's not like you're just waiting for something to dry for hours. No, no. I just don't know where they are.

I want them. I want. That's the great pain. I want my vagina. It was a campaign that we did, but I want my vagina. Obviously, I don't want to go over. You can have your vagina if you want.

Wait, well, here's a question. Could you tell the difference? Could you? No, interestingly. Because I don't think I could. Interestingly, she said our vaginas were very similar. She did. She said you've got really similar lips. And actually, when you look at them, you're like, they are quite similar. Like, Volva difference is something a lot of people celebrate. So I don't want to ever to make it feel like your vaginas can. Volva diversity. Volva diversity. We're randomly similar because we probably fact the same amount of people, not the same people, but the same amount. It would be jokes.

same people. We might have felt one, there might be one crossover. We both clearly meant multiple one-night stands, the names we don't remember. Anyway, so glad to have you here. You are, yeah, you're an acting legend. Do you want to talk to us a bit about your one-woman play? I love that you're doing a one-woman play. It's mad. I mean, this is how I describe myself as like delusional and very naive because why am I making my West End debut in a one-woman show? Who knows? Spoiler. Thank you. It is

So exciting like I always say equal amounts nerve-wracking and just the greatest adventure ever Yeah, I feel really creatively challenged and pushed and fulfilled as you can see my voice is going because I am just talking for six hours three But yeah, it's called instructions for a teenage Armageddon. It's playing at the Garrick Theatre starting on the 17th of March and

It is a comedy, like straight up it is a comedy, but it is also a study on grief because the story is basically about this girl who at 13 loses her sister, who is her everything to her, to Anorexia, and how that tragedy affects the next four years of her life and her family's life.

And it touches upon mental health, sexual assault, friendships, body dysmorphia through the lens of comedy. And I think that in society, teenage girls are a group that are mocked, criticized. Have you guys ever noticed that everything that we think is frivolous or silly or is embarrassing are things that teenage girls like?

Boy bands, Frappuccinos, like, you know, rom-coms. Yeah. And it's like intentional, right? It's to isolate and denigrate young girls. And I am so grateful to be doing this play because to me, it's a testament to teenage girls. Yeah. To me, the most powerful, the most powerful, wonderful group of people. So, yeah. I love this. So exciting. Do you remember the moment for you when you went from girl to woman? Was there like a moment where you were like, I don't feel like a girl anymore. I feel like I'm a woman.

I still to this day sometimes feel like a girl. So I don't think, I don't know, I don't think there was ever a moment. Like I still feel like a girl so much of the time. But I also think it's interesting when you're a girl, like obviously you're innocent compared to when you're a woman. But there's always an added layer of like,

an inaccessibility to an innocence that young boys have. Because of like society makes, you know, I remember at four years old, like I would just lie on the sofa and I'd be told to like close my legs at four. So like even when I think about a young girl's innocence, I always think, oh, but there is

less of an innocence than with young boys. I completely agree with you. My innocence, and I'm going to word this carefully, my childhood was taken away from you when I was eight, because I think, again, maybe not specific to South Asian culture, but I can only speak about our culture because I'm a South Asian, is like, you know,

your cousins are coming, or you know, so-and-so's coming, like, wear something appropriate, or don't look like that, or don't dress like that. And it's like, I'm a fucking child. Exactly. Yeah. Why am I being treated like the adultification of children? And that happens. It's so rife, I think, within our community. I think there was also two moments where I felt like a girl to woman is when I got my period.

And when I got married, that's when I was like, I'm a woman now. Is there like a defining moment in your sort of adolescence when you were growing up? Were you, were you really felt that change? I don't think I felt it when I got my period. I actually think I had the other scare. I was like, Oh my God, this is supposed to be a sign of womanhood, but I'm still a child and I still feel that way. But I know this means I'm a woman. I could imagine it was when I first were a sorry because like, yeah,

Instead of wearing like a parvader or like a half saree, I wore like a full saree and that I guess probably felt quite grown up. But like I said, I think, and I feel really privileged that I still feel like a child most of the time.

And I feel really lucky for that. It's funny, because I feel like we try to accelerate our kind of womanhood when you're really young. You think you're way older than you are. And being a teenager, I would just be like, I know everything. I know everything about the world. And anything my mum would say to me for advice, I'd be like, I'm not taking advice of you. I know what I'm doing. And actually, now I look back at this time, and I'm like, oh god, she was really telling me some important stuff that I didn't take. And you get to our age, and you're like, I'm a child. You act.

You act kind of immature, you dress like a stellar, you kind of hark back to your youth a bit more. I think the older you get. I've got two year old and the other day I was hanging out with him, joggers, trainers, chilling in our house, like pissing about with the football. And I was like, I am just playing with this baby and this baby is mine. And I was doing that thing where I was like, but I'm a baby.

You're like, am I in a casual relationship? Maybe they had this epiphany where she thought she was in a casual relationship, but she's in a civil partnership with someone where she shares a mortgage and a child and I'm like, I thought I was in a situation ship. Someone described a situation ship to me and I was like, yeah, that's what I got. And then they were like, no, that's not what that means. How do you refer to your partner? Do you say partner? Yeah, he's my partner. He's my partner. He's my partner. We're in a civil partnership. We have a baby. Yeah. I just didn't want to get married because I... That's not a situation ship.

But I still feel like it's funny because I look at him and I still think he's really young. He's like 45. He's about to turn 44. And I still look at him and I see this guy that I'm out of her state. He looks like a child to me. And while I'm hanging out, I feel like we're really playful. Like me, him, and my son, Wallen bed this morning, doing a really ridiculous cuddle thought tense with the duvet like 6am, pissing about. And I'm like,

I feel like I'm quite connected to my inner trophy. We're talking about... I think people that are are more joyful. I think they're happier, more younger. I also think society's changed, right? Now, I think our idea of aging and what's appropriate for what age... Yeah, it's open up window. It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. Yeah. I'm 38 still fucking 24-year-olds. I'm living my life.

Mm-hmm genuinely and like this is a thing. I hate a chamber age aiming either way women do that You want any point in your life and we do it to celebrities all the time like people take the piss out Madonna for wearing what she wears and I'm like Are we kidding right now? Let Madonna wear whatever she wants she wants you do what if she and I actually talking about like this inner child like this what's your most child like treat oh I can't not contain a laugh when somebody farts I

Oh my god, me too. Why was it next to you like a few times? Yeah, but you didn't, I didn't hear it. No, I didn't hear it. You're like, I thought it was like, that's not funny. But if you're like, that's not funny. We have the humour of five years. Oh my god, I just think I'm kind of disgusting. What's the most

gross thing that you need to do. No, no, no. So I'd say I'm really messy, but I'm very clean. I'm not dirty, but I'm very messy. I'm super clean and messy. But I just have no discipline. I have no self-control. I can't go one week without eating chocolate. I have no impulse control. You tell me not to do something and I will go and do it. That's interesting. It's really bad. Yeah. I'm just very, very undisciplined. But you are an actor who's doing a one-woman show. Yeah. That's quite a discipline. But that's because I love it. Yeah.

Yeah, no, no, no, I can't. But maybe you're allowed to be undisciplined about certain aspects of your life when you're so disciplined about work. Maybe. But I don't know, I just think I'm really silly. Like, I want to do talk, like, what's considered children's activities? How old are you? I'm 27. You look about 15. I know, I love it. Really? I was like, is she legal, guys? Yeah, I'm sorry. Like, you look ex-believably younger. But it makes dating really hard because the only men that approach you are per this. I love that so much. I think about it like that.

I mean, you're obviously blessed with excellent genes, so when you are actually our age, you'll probably look much younger, but when you look extraordinarily young and obviously very beautiful. I mean, I think there was a picture of me and you. Somebody might actually think she's my child, do you think? No, no. That'd be so funny. I mean, I didn't know.

No big. But I love it. No, Shanti, my mum, like, I call her Shanti because she is like my sister, looks about 35. Oh, wow. She's like, she had me at a very appropriate age. What's her secret? Just jeans, man. My granddad, so her dad, he's like 86, looks about 60. It's mad. Brand out frown. Brand out frown. It's mad, yeah. But you enjoy it, you like looking.

Yeah, I never want it to look older. I have a real, but this is the thing also. I feels like maybe contradicting everything I've said, but I also have a problem with aging. Like my birthday, I do not enjoy it. I'm actually like actively miserable and I do psychological warfare around, on everyone around me on my birthday. One's your birthday? 17th of Jan.

Babe, can I just say one bit of advice? I know. Can you be able to embrace it age? It just gets better. It's privileged as well. It's such a luxury. Oh my God, being in your like search, you just get better. And then my friends were like in their 40s, they're like, it's good, don't fight it. But I pay such psychological warfare. So I always say to my family and friends, I'll be like, you know, no, no, no, I don't want to do anything for my birthday. I just want it to be low key. I don't want anything, donate to charity, which I do mean that.

And then the day calms and they don't do anything. And I'm like, oh, I guess no one loves me. I guess no one loves me. Okay. Okay. I see how it is or I'll plan a party and then the day before our council.

Oh my God, you're so dramatic. Yeah, I'm literally upset when you actually know what turns out. Exactly. And then I'm like, oh, OK, you all listened to what I said, then fine. OK, it's really bad. I feel like we need some sort of calibration system on your birthday. And this is the thing. I'm actually such a reasonable person. Like I'm I'm very reason. That is how people that would probably be the first thing that people say. She's very reasonable, very chill, except on my birthday, where I act like a psycho. You were allowed one day a year. Come on. No big deal. I got it.

Just on that day. Do you feel like there's an age where people should like kind of like go over there in a child and maybe establish that they are a woman or like, no.

That was so easy. You're like, nah. For what? For when? Well, I feel like there's a kind of benefit. There's a kind of idea that like, you know, there is something actually power about being a woman and being responsible and like owning that and like talking, like, I don't know, because I feel like on this podcast, we get a lot of young people email us and stuff and I would hate for them to see us in a certain way. And then I feel like a responsibility to them. And I think sometimes I should be like holding ourselves a little bit like, yeah, we do have a bit more experience than you. And so maybe we should be able to talk to you in a way that feels like there is a respect.

But there isn't an incongruence between what you have is wisdom, right? And you can impart that wisdom. But I also feel like I would have wisdom. It's also about experiences. It's not about age. And with age comes more experiences, but not necessarily, right? Because I will have wisdom and advice for you on things that I've experienced that you haven't. And obviously, if you've lived more lives, you've had more experiences. So I don't think about it as age. I think about it as experience.

And having said that, it's so funny. I see a lot of discourse on social media about young women being like, oh, old women are so bitter in all this, and so jealous in all this. And I think the biggest, but also the biggest lie and the biggest mess up that patriarchy has done to young women is to make young women think old women are bitter when they give us valuable advice.

Absolutely. And I'm like, no, they've literally lived our lives. Listen, but the patriarchy is convinced young women that older women are bitter, older women are bitter, and then men can do their bullshit on young women. And I'm always like, no, no, no, I will always listen to an older woman. You are. Always. Wise beyond your own. I just don't want to, I'm just like. Are you single? Yeah. Are you like dating or? Yeah. How's that going? How's that going? With the father? Yeah.

Guys, I'm not even going to lie. If I met my dream person, whatever that means, I'd want to be married tomorrow. Because marriage, I think, seems really fun. So you do want to get married? Do you want to get married? Do you want to get married? Marriage or you want a wedding? Right. Marriage or marriage. Are you not on a wedding? My dream wedding would be like, have a barbecue. I love barbecues, my favourite thing. Really? I would hire like, food trucks.

So I don't want a wedding, really, but I want marriage because marriage seems so fun. Like you have like an inbuilt best friend that you can go do fun things with. But you can do that with somebody who you're on marriage to. That's true. That is true. But I think... Do you mean you just mean like a relationship? You like their derivative? A series relationship. I want a serious commitment where they can't escape so easily though.

Oh, yeah, you need something to lock them down. A mortgage. Yes, mortgage a different ways to trap them. It doesn't always have to be marriage. That is true. Yeah, I want like some thing that they can't leave. So you don't want to, you're not, you're not like into serial dating. You want to be, you want to be in love, you don't want to love.

I've never been in a relationship because, and there is a combination of like, I'm South Asian and this is how we being brought up, but I also do think it is a personality trait of mine because I am pretty good at unpacking. I always say this, it's easy for me to be a good person because I genuinely believe in the things the way I live my life, rather than like, oh society expects me not to do XYZ. Yeah.

And I thought about like, oh, I've always gone into dates being like, are you my future partner, my future husband, whatever, father of my children. And I thought like, is this because I'm South Asian and we've been told that's how we should approach dating? But no, I genuinely like that is my personality.

and I'll date someone, go on a few dates, date them for a month. And then if I think, like, if I think, oh, you're not my future partner, I'll end it. So I guess in my life, I imagine I'll only ever be ideally in one relationship. That sounds so quite romantic. Can I ask, what has Britishan taught you about dating? Has it taught you anything?

Yes, it has actually. It's not always the case that more options the better. Yeah. Like I actually think that's really flawed. And I like the idea of, OK, these are the options in the room. Pick the best one. And I think that's really helpful and good because I think there is this culture of always looking for better because we do feel like options are endless. Whereas I really try to see like, is this good enough? And that's not a bad thing. But is this good? Is this good enough to be like,

this is good, I'm done. I also loved that you shout out your mum, because I'm really quite close to my mum too. And I love the idea of finding someone who gets one with my mum that was always really important for me. It's so important. Very key, right? And my dad, oh my god. Yeah, and when I, the guy that I'm with now, who I have the child with, who I've been in a situation with, when I've been like eight years, we've been together forever.

And when I met him, I was like, he's hot, he's smart, he's cool, and I want to fuck him. And I wasn't thinking about any of the other things. I wasn't thinking like, well, my mom like him with my brother like him. I wasn't thinking about the first time I met him because I was just wanting to sleep around. And I was like, you're a great shag. And this is going to be for as long as it can be fun. And then I was like, I don't want to have a relationship with you. And then he did all the things that made me think, oh, my mom's going to love you.

And it would, like, I almost got into a relationship with him because I was like, it would be such a shame for her to miss out on you. And that's been, like, so key. Like, it's such a valuable thing. Would you take advice from your mum on dating and... Yeah, you often do now. I tell my mum everything, like, Christine, because I think this is the thing.

Shanti will say something that's like, and Shanti's so blunt, like she's so rude. She's so rude, but she'll say something and I'll go, I disagree, shut up and I'll like storm away, but then what she said will penetrate and I'll think and I'll think and then I'll like come back and go, you were right. Is she often right? Yeah, I think so. Well, this is a thing. It's like we get carried away or I get carried away with like lust and coolness and like we're having a good time and Shanti can see like

Beyond that. Beyond that. And she knows me so well. You know, obviously. It matters. I will never be with someone that doesn't like my parents. That's just not impossible. It's not going to happen. Even if my parents are the problem, sorry, I've got them. That's what I'm going to do. Whoa. Big bold statement there.

No, they're not. They're great. I mean, yeah, they don't. Even if they are the problem. Yeah. It's obviously your allegiance to your and loyalty to your mom and dad who have raised you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like, sorry, what am I going to do? Don't my parents can't pick you up. I quite like that.

I see, I don't have a good relationship with my parents, and I think that desire you both have is born from having a really good, healthy relationship with your parents. It's always been healthy, though. Yeah, yeah, but I think now, though, when I'm ready to be in a relationship, because I hid my ex-partner for a long time while they don't actually even know about him, but

the next partner I'm with. Can I just ask clarification? Yeah. You don't have to answer. So are you with someone now? No, I'm not. No, I was with my ex partner, but we broke up and it was mutual. And now I'm dating like an athlete. Oh, my God. So I'm very happy. How do you people on dating apps?

I want all of them.

the opposite. I think if you're an older woman, you're like, firstly, you're not an older woman. Why do you keep saying older woman? No, no, no, but I'm totally owning my age, by the way. I feel fabulous. You don't have to ever worry about me in my age, but I'm older than you. So I don't know how you'd want me to say it, but I'm not the oldest woman, but I'm an older woman. And I'm having my whole up, I'm having my love, I'm having a fucking great time. And it's great dating in your 30s.

then in your 20s. And actually what I've realised is like this whole thing that we're talking about from girlhood to womanhood. I'm like a walking, talking, reverse case of Benjamin Button.

I just feel like I'm getting younger. I feel like I'm getting younger. A reverse case of a human bedroom. It is bedroom, isn't it? It is bedroom, isn't it? Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because he was getting younger. No, no, no, he was getting older. No, he's getting younger. And he was getting younger. Okay, I'm just thinking about it. I was telling him the wrong woman's son. I'm so dyspraxic. So I now, honestly, like, what you were saying earlier, when I was growing up, I felt the weight, you know, I was in like a forced marriage. I felt the weight of being an adult, of being a woman at such a young age. And I now,

getting back those years where I had that childhood really, and that sort of early adolescence taken away from me. So I'm having a great time. It's like clubbing, right? Like, I really love to go out. I really love to party all this. And I see so much like discussion about, oh, like, what age are you too old to go to a club? And I'm thinking never. Never. I hope I'm doing this at 50. Oh, my God, me too, honey. Have you watched them Indian matchmaking? I hate it. OK. But you've watched it, right? Yeah. Why do you hate her?

because I think that like I do think it's accurate like I'm not gonna pretend like oh you know Indians aren't like that they are but and I think this about like representation in general

in the, when you are barely represented on screen, I think there is an obligation that representation breaks barriers and breaks stereotypes. And that perpetuates an already existing stereotype. So I think what benefit does it add to the, it didn't move the narrative on. Like brand people aren't watching that going, Oh my God, this is so funny. We're going, Oh, holy shit, triggered. And so I'm thinking,

It's mocking brown people. It's not saying anything new about our culture. It's not saying anything new. It's mocking us for a white audience. My follow-up question wasn't actually why you hated it. It was that scene where there's that girl who lives and dies by everything her mum says. So there's a character.

a bit like yourself where she loves her parents' parents love her and she goes to a mum for everything. Do you think that your mum has a lot of weight and control in your dating life? She doesn't have control. I think you take her advice. I take her advice. But I think, especially in the last few years,

My mum and I have a lot of respect for each other and we have a lot of respect. So I take her advice, but it's advice. And that's like, that is the thing that we've been working on, which is transitioning from my mum going, I've told you to do this, so do it, to here is my advice and I'm not going to be upset if you don't take it.

That's big. That's a better progress. How did you go there? Yeah. I'm still on the fucking first thing. I think by mirroring. So I behave in a way where she goes, oh, this was nice. This was nice that Truthred did this, or listened to me this way, or apologized, or heard my concerns. So then I say, you know how I did that? Do you mind doing that to me? So I make her mirror my behavior.

Wow, I've sort of clip recently on the internet of this guy talking to his mom about boundaries. I don't know if either of you Oh my god, they did like full alignment, you know We just have some boundaries. She's like boundaries. How fucking dare you with your boundaries like as if I got a chance to have boundaries boundaries are so offensive and she went off on one and I was like It's really interesting because I think the way that we articulate our emotions and our feelings in our generation your generation is younger than us even like a lot of it's based on like Western

psychology is based on Western education systems. And so like, I, because I think that, you know, there's, because I have a child that I'm often thinking about how I will communicate to him, what's important to me. And a lot of the stuff is like, I actually really liked that my parents were probably a little bit strict with me and kept me quite close. Because it, yeah, I think so, because I think that it made me really respect them. And so if I was bullied at school or my peers hated me, I didn't like go into a hole. I came home and my mum respected me and loved me. And I was like, that's enough.

And they made me feel like I was enough. I don't know. Like, it's funny, but you pick and choose the little bits of it. But I found that really interesting that his mum couldn't possibly accept his way of articulating his emotions. Because she was like, I can't compete. I can't understand that. I think that's part of communication, right? Like saying to an Indian...

presuming it's in here, but saying to an Indian mum like boundaries, but they're not going to understand that. But why do you say that? Boundaries. You understand this chapel. Exactly. It's stuck in the face with it. Exactly. So you have to use language. Yeah. They understand with words that they understand.

I like, I really love a lot of things about my South Asian upbringing. So I often think of it as like a really beautiful amalgamation. I step back and I genuinely, again, it's the evaluation of what I believe in my life. I go, these are the things that I value from my South Asian upbringing that I want to carry on. These are the things from my British upbringing that I value and I want to carry on. And I see a lot of synergy in both of those. And I think that is a privilege because a lot of people see kind of cognitive dissonance or feel.

Yeah, most of my 20s, but I'm now actually where you are. Very wise with your pearls of bass. When I was 27, I was just like high in something. Yeah, I was just like a fucking waist man. I was like, yeah, let's get big. I tell you really, I think I was like having a summer in France. I was not nervous.

No in it. No, not at all. So obviously growing up, you will see your mum as an adult. So you see her as a woman, you know, that idea of kind of an adult woman who has responsibilities. And that's your idea of such a first woman that you kind of see and get to know. And do you feel like at any point now as an adult, looking over to your mum, you've seen her as like a girl?

for sure. And I think it's, it's, it's a seminal like experience in a grown up's life, which is when you become your parents parent, when like the complete relationship dynamic changes of

you know, when you're a child, it's like your parent looks after you. And then suddenly, and it happened for me pretty early on because of certain circumstances, but like at 21, I was my mum and dad's parent. I was my mum and dad's carer, right? Like the relationship completely switched. And so I actually think I've gone too much the other way in that I can be really paternalistic to both my parents.

being like, this is what you should eat, this is when you should sleep, this is your habits that you should be doing. Why have you got to that stage? Because I love them so much and I want to make sure that they're the same way that parents say when they did it in years, you're just mirroring it back to them. Do you think they like you being the strict? I think

high level and low level. So in a low level, no, because they're like, oh, she's so annoying. She's making me eat less meat and go to the personal trainer twice a week, whatever it is, higher level. I think they're so aware it's because I want them to be happy and healthy and live long. So higher level, they love going to their friends like, oh, she booked me a PT for two times.

It's basically us nagging on our parents and bitching about them. They're kind of doing it with you, yeah. Yeah, literally. The time of present. And, you know, I was so much kinder to my mum when I like fully clocked the holy shit much like me. This is her first time doing life. She is a child always learning about life.

In the same way, every experience I have, she's having it for the first time through me. That's for her child. Everything is new for her much like it. Because she's never experienced it because she's obviously from a different generation. But equally, it's her first life.

Sure, but she's had more time on the planet than you. She's had more time on the planet, but I always think like, yeah, it's my mom's first time doing life too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She gets to do it kind of again differently with you. I think that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because like I've been filming myself a lot for my child so that when he's older, I'll be like, this is what I was like before you. Because I don't want to become so mum. I don't want to become such a thing for you that you don't get that I had this like whole life before you. And that life was so fun that I wanted you in it.

Yeah. And I don't want you to ever think that I bought you here because I thought things were bad. Like you're here because everything was so good. Oh my God, I love that. I've never like even thought about that so sweet. Yeah, I think that's like a big drive to have kids. It's like, because you're just like, this is so cool. I want to share it with someone. But you know, when you open up like an old photo album, which we know, us Asians cherish, right? Because everything's on. But you know, you look at your mum or your dad before they were married and they're like, oh, they look really cool. And my mum and Asari with her belly out and looking at like a Bollywood actress. And I'm like,

This is before she became mum in her identity and who she was in her silliness and love of life was stripped away. Or if you see pictures of them as like kids. I saw a picture of my mum at like four. And I was like, she's just sitting there, I was like, what's going through that little girl's head? Like, will she ever know she's going to have her own little girl of her own?

But that's where I love with my grandparents. When I was a child, I was obsessed with knowing what my parents were like as children. Yeah. And always be like, what were they like? Tell me stories, tell me funny stories about them growing up. And you're obsessed with it. Yeah. Who are you most similar to? Your mum or your dad?

My mom and dad, it's probably why they divorced, my mom and dad are like extremes on this like really, really extreme on both ends. So my dad is like a major introvert, mother is an extrovert, mom is super shameless, dad is full of shame, like all of these things. And I really think that like

and maybe the balance. Yeah. You probably are the most balanced person I've ever met in my life, so I couldn't, I mean, I'm the most balanced person in my life. I feel very, very centered, very grounded. I feel like a lot of younger female guests that we bring on the show, sort of shed a, like turn the mirror on ass and be like, oh, I fucking cracked one. I've still got a lot of progress to do, yeah. What does that mean though, like, progress? Because I was, I was talking to my therapist and I was like, therapist of shit, you guys make people worse, you're awful. Did you say that to her? Yeah.

I was like, and he was like, no, I agree with you. I think my therapist are awful, which is why he stopped teaching. Um, cause he was like, I see so many people that shouldn't be therapist. And I said to him at one point, I was really low and I was like, how do I just like not feel thing? How do I just be like the most balanced, moderate person? He goes, so you just don't want to be human. What are you trying to say? Like you don't want to experience life. So balance is good, but I actually think like you feel alive when you have the extremes.

When you feel super sad and you feel super happy, yeah, those can be turbulent things, but it's like, oh, that's one of the most human. I've spent a lot of time living in extremes, so in my 30s going into my 40s, I don't want to live in a constant state of flux of extremes, because this high-low situation is kind of how my mum and dad live, and I'm like,

I want to level out now. It's time. It's time. I mean, thank you so much for coming on. That was so good. It was such a joy to speak to you. And yeah, we'll be coming to your play.

And now we are your shagney-handies! A short one this week. I'm in a happy relationship over three years, but I constantly obsess over everything that could go wrong. What if he leaves me? What if he cheats? I want to stop, but I worry that the minute I do, that's when everything will go wrong. Any advice on how to be a bit more chill? I want to enjoy my life. It's the like, what, what ifs? What about to be's? Yeah. But babe, three years and you're constantly obsessing, I mean,

I think maybe you need to, maybe this is beyond the relationship, maybe you need to actually talk to someone about it, because it sounds deeper than, I can understand, I can understand this sort of first three to six months in, when you really, really, really like someone, you're like, fuck, what's gonna happen, what if they go, what if they leave me. But three years, like, babe, he obviously loves you if he's still with you, right? I think I'm gonna be really realistic. Things are gonna go wrong. That's life, that's experiencing, and that's like totally being alive. Things will go wrong.

They will. They will go wrong. It might not be you break up. You're going to have problems in your relationship. You're going to argue things in life will not go the way that you're expecting. And that's fine. That's like life. I don't think you should worry about that. You don't want your life to go on some perfect thing. But don't worry about problems until they're there.

Yeah, I know, I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's, she's in the obsessive, like she's constantly thinking about where things could go wrong, constantly all the time. And you're right, your message I think is overall bigger picture, things will go wrong, you'll fall in and out of love, you'll meet partners and that is life, Sailor V. But you obsessing over every detail constantly must be exhausting for you. And the fact that you're doing this,

three years in, clearly is not good for you or for him. Oh, I see. You're obsessing about all the details of your specific relationship with this person. Yeah, she's obsessing about things going on now. You could do this. You could do this. If you're still thinking about this after three years, then maybe you should speak to someone about, because there's clearly something else there.

Like, what is he not offering you that's not giving you that foundational trust to feel like a safe relationship? Maybe it's a trusting. I think a lot of relationships are about safety, like feeling like someone's your home and keeping you safe. And if you're suddenly like, you'll ride or die, this doesn't feel stable. It feels like any minute, anything could go wrong. Then, yeah, you should speak to him as well and be like, I'm not feeling it. I don't feel confident in us. I feel like something's going on. But, babe, you're right. He could leave you. He could cheat.

Like he could do any, he could do, he could do all of those. He could be faithful to you for five years and do those things on the sixth year. Or he could do none of those things. Or he could marry, live with you for 20 years, have five kids with you. And then she'll know. It's always some no idea. You don't know. Like love and being a rest ship's big game. But advice from being a bit more chill, I would say drink us a movie.

I understand where you're coming from. I think with new relationships, I used to be a bit like this, but you need to just, I think, let go a bit, trust in him and yourself a bit more. And what will happen will happen. It's inevitable. It is life. Good luck.

Thank you so much for listening. And as ever, if you have any thoughts or questions, or you're stuck in a rut, or your boyfriend isn't giving you any blowys, or you're not giving him any blowys, or anything of that nature, please contact the Chagony aunties. You can email us at browngirlsdoit2 at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note too. Oh, seven, nine, six, eight, 100, eight, two,

Bye! Bye!

All I need is time. It's Britney Spears. I think I'm freaking out the song. Is it? Oh, I don't know the rest of it. No, wait. Somebody get in there. Get in there. Don't open up my mind. Can you get the lyrics out? Is it? Is it? Is it? Is it necessary? Please.

Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by. And in 2017, Miranda, a university tutor from London, joins a yoga school that promises profound transformation. It felt a really safe and welcoming space. After the yoga classes, I felt amazing.

But soon, that calm, welcoming atmosphere leads to something far darker, a journey that leads to allegations of grooming, trafficking and exploitation across international borders. I don't have my passport, I don't have my phone, I don't have my bank cards, I have nothing. The passport being taken, the being in a house and not feeling like they can leave.

World of Secrets is where untold stories are unveiled and hidden realities are exposed. In this new series, we're confronting the dark side of the wellness industry with the hope of a spiritual breakthrough gives way to disturbing accusations. You just get sucked in so gradually.

and it's done so skillfully that you don't realise. And it's like this, the secret that's there. I wanted to believe that, you know, that

whatever they were doing, even if it seemed gross to me, was for some spiritual reason that I couldn't yet understand. Revealing the hidden secrets of a global yoga network, I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this and to put my reputation and everything else on the line. I want truth and justice.

and further people to not be hurt for things to be different in the future. To bring it into the light and almost alchemise some of that evil stuff that went on and take back the power. World of Secrets Season 6, the Bad Guru. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.