Part 1: Bill’s NBA Six-Pack. Plus Peter Schrager on the Jets’ Downfall, Buffalo’s Leap, and DRAKE MAYE.

Coming up, a two-part pod. This is part one. We're gonna talk some basketball, talk some football next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed it, we put up a new rewatchables on Monday. We did the replacements. You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos equipped from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. This is going to be a two-part podcast. We just had too much content for you today. So part one, I'm doing an NBA six pack at the top.

And then our old friend Peter Schrager has come on to talk about.

All of the NFL, things we're super surprised by, things we're delighted by, where we stand after 11 weeks, even some coach stuff. So that's gonna be part one. And then part two is going to be Chris Ryan and Joe House and I talking about the Sixers and what the hell is going on there. And then House and I are gonna be some million dollar pick. So we're gonna try to get both of these parts up as soon as we possibly can. So that's the plan. This is part one. First, our friends from,

Pearl Jam!

All right, we're gonna start with an NBA six pack. I haven't done this a lot. I haven't talked to NBA in over a week, which is my fault. I'm not perfect. I have six things that I wanted to throw at you. None of them have to do with the Philadelphia 76ers, because we're gonna be talking about them later today with Chris Ryan and Joe House. First thing.

The Clippers without Paul George. So I took the under as a lock before the season over under podcasts with the Clippers, 37 and a half. I didn't see how they were going to have enough scoring, which is James Harden, Norman Powell. I didn't understand why they didn't give Paul George four years max. Like you're already all in with this Kauai contract. Why not just go all the way in on your team? Well, what did they know?

I remember mentioning this on one of the podcasts. It's like, hmm, bomber guy who just spends money, like absolute fucking crazy. And this Paul George thing was too rich for his blood. What do they know? You have an athlete on your team, in this case, for five full years, half a decade.

And your trainers see stuff, your coaching staff see stuff. Something about it made them a little wary of committing to a guy in his mid 30s who had had, you know, a major awful broken legs, some other knee stuff. Something made them go this time, it's too rich for our blood, which is interesting because they did this with Blake Griffin when they signed Blake Griffin to a big max deal.

And then, uh, traded him like four months later. And I was like, Oh my God, they traded Blake Griffin. What are they doing? And then what happened? Blake Griffin's body broke down within two years. You watch Paul George. Now he's hyper extended the same knee twice. So you could say, Oh, that's a little flooky. Um, when he came back from the injury between those two injuries, he didn't look great.

And if you're a Sixers fan staring at that max contract, I think you're in a complete panic. But here's why you can't like celebrate too much with the Clippers. They did offer Paul George three years for 150. So it's not like they were like, we're out. We want no part of the Paul George business. They kind of wanted it at their price. What was smart was when they had a chance to sign and trade them.

which is something that teams have done a lot in the past where they was like, well, we have this asset. We're going to turn it and all of a sudden they're taking these contracts back. They were smart, and I'm not to do that. They didn't do it with gold state, had some possible trades. Denver, they supposedly talked to. So they turned the Paul George money into Derek Jones and Chris Dunn, 45 million for three years. So that's about one third of what Paul George were to cost. And then Nick Batum, one year 4.9 and it looks like he might be washed.

But they had the ability now to slap contracts for bigger deals, slap them together, whatever. And the big bet was Ken Norman Powell showed her something that spurred him. And he actually has. So I've been watching them because I've been rooting against them because I love being right. And they're nine and seven. They've had a tough schedule. It's been like the opposite of the Lakers schedule. You know, it's true, like offense. You know, like this win streak, like you haven't played anybody. You know, that's true. Deep down.

Clippers 9 and 7, they played Houston twice. They played Golden State twice. They played Phoenix twice. They played OKC, Sacramento, Orlando, and Denver.

There's not nothing going on here. I'll tell you one other thing. I think the arena is, is really good. They played the Warriors last, uh, last Monday and I really wanted to go and we had a spot if I think I couldn't go. And somebody who was there told me something, somebody that's worked for the team for a while told me something that I thought was a great point. It was the first Warriors game, the Clippers have had as a home game where the Warriors fans didn't drown out the Clippers fans.

where it actually felt like a Quippers home game and they ended up winning. It was a classic Quippers Warriors game where the Warriors put that crap, the Quippers look great, then all of a sudden the Warriors are scrapping together, trying to win at the end, they didn't. But whatever Balmer did with that arena, which is really cool and the wall and the fans close together and trying to monitor some of the ticket stuff, it actually worked in that Warriors game. So I'm a little more bullish than the Quippers than it used to be. That's the first one. Speaking of the Warriors,

It's a tiny one second second in the six pack. The D Anthony Mountain injury was a really, really secretly huge injury. There's been so many injuries this year. It kind of got lost in the shuffle, but he had really unlocked them. He was really good next to Curry. He was an excellent on ball defender.

a good shooter. They were fourth in defense of rating before he got hurt. And he was a great fit with, with Curry. And he heard his name and was like, huh, then they said it was a sprained ACL. And then all of a sudden he's got an ACL surgery. And it just hurts them. They're not the same team. They've been, they've been trying to throw people in that spot and we'll see how it goes with them. But he was the perfect fit. And it kind of exposed the secret issue with Clay the last couple of years where he kind of can guard anybody. If you have Curry that

Doesn't need to be totally protected because he's a really good off ball defender, but you want somebody else taking that burden of going against the genre and types night after night. Melton was doing it. I'm just watching it because I loved how the words played the last time we did the power pole. I was talking about how I had them as a sleeper, but I really thought maybe they could be a real contender and they still might be, but the mountain thing, mountain thing definitely hurts. So I didn't want to not mention that. Third thing for the six pack. Houston. They have the look.

I know the look. They have the look. Third defense rating, 11th offense. The terror twins. I'm in Thompson and Taris and have been my, they're not the league pack. They're not like best Oscar winner, best actor.

I'm not even positive. They're best supporting actor, but there's something I don't know what what Oscar they would win. They come in and they flip these games. They just have so much athleticism and so much defense between those two. They're terrifying. It's a little like what Orlando had last year. It's a little like what OKC has sometimes, but they have like.

It's something to watch. And especially if you're gambling on games and you like Claire props and stuff, like watch when Houston goes against teams that have good swings, like they played Indiana, math or an eight points. They put Chicago, Levena had 15. They had back to backs against the Clippers. This is what really jumped out to me because I actually watched those games. Hardin was fucking useless against Houston between Brooks and then the terror twins. Like it was, you could kind of see him like I'm tapping out. I don't like this. I'm not having a good time.

hearted in power and back-to-back games were 21 for 58, 12 free throw attempts total and they only scored 60 points and Houston swept those games. And I just think defensively,

There's really something here. I don't even, I said this when we did the powerful. I don't even think they know what, what their team has yet. Like that, like Jabari Smith will have some games or only plays like 22 minutes, only scores four points. He's a guy that if you're going to say who is not going to be on this team in a year, maybe that's the guy because I think he's a real asset. They were playing small ball five with them last year.

He's only 9.7 million this year. He could be the focal point of a trade if they want to make a trade. They've already said publicly they don't want to make a trade that they're happy to have the kind of what Orlando had last year with OKC had two years ago of we're young, we're hungry. Let's see where this goes, which I think is the right mentality. But they do have a lot of picks. They do have Jabari as the centerpiece of if you're actually getting a player back in the trade. So I'm just watching them and I'm watching them in general because I really like them.

Tuesday night Houston at Minnesota with the territories and Brooks going against Edwards is I think the league pass game of the year that is in Celtics Cleveland because I don't think that was a league pass game. But I want to see them go toe to toe with that Minnesota team. Houston to me is a top five team in the West. I've taken them very seriously and I love the territories. So that's my third thing. Fourth thing. Just a question.

Did heat culture die when they didn't get down? Because here's what's happened since. Remember, they had already drafted Hawkeyes, which is the last really smart heat moment we've had since then. The 2024 next last year's next team kind of stole their identity as like the defense chemistry over achieving team. They had a terrible year. Riley got mad at Butler.

The rogere trade turned out to be kind of blah. And I'll admit, I like the rogere trade for them. He's playing great for Charlotte. He's been kind of blah for them. He's averaging 13 points a game. There's times out there he might be the Tobias Harris award for Silo's joke about, oh, I didn't realize Terry Roger was out there. He's had some moments like that. Bam's gone backwards. Now, I assume that's going to turn around, but I'm just pointing out he doesn't look like a top 15 player in the league. Nicole Yovitch, who they were all excited about.

blah. They're getting 24 points a game and a 49 45 88 shooting season from Tyler Hero. And as we're taping this on a Thursday, they're six and seven. And Boston and Cleveland seems like they're they're miles ahead of them. But the big thing for me and a lot of people have talked about this this week and this is like the heat fans get mad every time I talk about the heat. Did the 15th pick in the draft

They drafted where the center, who barely plays. And they passed on back to back picks. Jared McCain goes to Philly and connect goes to the Lakers.

And in the old days, the heat, if McCain was on the board at 15, like forget about connect. I like connect, but I can see it. He's 24. They already have shooters who don't really play defense. Like I get it. McCain was the most Miami pick. I can't believe it. I couldn't believe it in the moment. If you go back to my Twitter feed, I was going nuts about McCain. I thought like, I was like, this guy, I know this guy's good because he was an LA kid. I watched him play in high school a bunch of times. He was my favorite.

kind of post ladder guy in the draft by far. I would have bet anything McCain is going to be a good player. And they passed on them. And maybe it's nothing. Everybody misses on picks. They had a hero. They took bam. They took, uh, they took a caucus. Like they're clearly really good at drafting. And they whiffed on this pick with two guys that really, really, really could have helped them.

Big picture, I'm just not afraid of the heat anymore. I think I finally, it's like the horror movie where you're not looking under your bed. I'm just not looking under my bed anymore with the heat. Great run, 2020-23 and it's over. And we'll see what they do with it. But that McCain Connect thing is like symbolic of something that shifted with those guys. Fifth thing on the six pack.

So the NBA All-Star game, Sean Serenia, now VSPN reported that they're going to do a 14 tournament this year, and they're going to have three All-Star teams, eight players each, and then they're going to have the winner of the rookie sophomore game. And so it's going to be four teams competing, semi-final games up to 40 points, first team to 40, I guess wins, finals games up to 25 points.

As usual, they didn't consult with me. Even though I would put my track record of great goofy NBA ideas against anyone in the 21st century, I just would just go look at the track record. It's there.

I don't know why the rookie sophomore guys are in this. And I don't know why each team has eight players. If they had asked me, what do you think? I would have said four all-star teams, six players each. So there's one sub. Has anybody who made this decision ever played pick up basketball? Who has three subs and pick up basketball? It sucks. I remember playing in a league when you're in Boston, when we had like nine players and it was like short games and you're just shuttling guys in and out like it was hockey and it sucked.

I would have done four All-Star teams. I would have done six players each. Had the signature players of the league be the captain of those teams. So you have staff, you have Janis, you have LeBron, and maybe Yogege. I know, however you want to do it. Sorry, I'm beat. You didn't make the cut.

And done six players then each player is a sub and by the way if somebody gets hurt you still have five players Maybe there's like a 25th all-star who's like the emergency QB who can come in at any point of two guys hurt I just don't get the eight players thing and I don't understand why anybody wants to watch the rookie sophomore guys Playing against these dudes not to mention those guys are actually gonna be really trying and maybe that's why they did it Maybe they wanted the all-stars to try against

the rookie sophomores, but it's like, that's a pretty big spot to throw a rookie team in, especially when you have the draft that we had this year that was pretty uninspired, the sophomores, whatever. But I had just, it was an easy tweak. I don't know how they fucked this up, as usual they didn't ask me. Sixth and last, I think Milwaukee is going to be fine.

That's where I landed. I don't think they're going to win the title. I don't even think they're necessarily going to make the Eastern finals, but I didn't think that before the season. What wasn't played for the first three weeks was this could be an all-time disaster. They're going to have to trade Giannis. It just felt like all the darkest pieces of the season were sitting there. Giannis is averaging a 32, 12, and six. It's like his seventh straight year where he's looked like one of the three best players in the league at worst.

Dame has not shot the ball well, and there's still six and nine with three horrible losses. One that actually seemed like there should have been a criminal investigation with the officiating. But six and nine easily could be nine and six. Three of the dumbest losses of the season.

Green and Prince to swing guys for them, both shooting 50% from three. So Doc has just figured out, like, I'm probably just going to give up defense with the swings. I just want to make sure guys can make shots. That's why somebody like AJ Green is playing. And they're not a top 14. I don't think they're there with Boston Cleveland, New York or Orlando. But after that, I don't know who I'd like more than Giannis in the box. I'd probably have them fifth.

And all they need to do is get to the playoffs. And then you have Janis and you can try to stay healthy and maybe you can find one shooter. There are minus 700 for the playoffs on Fandal, which I think is notable. You should also mention Fandal does not have odds for Philly to make the playoffs. You literally can't find them because that's how crazy this Philly season has been. But I'm leaning toward Milwaukee's probably okay. Right. Maybe they're not one of the favorites.

But they're OK. This isn't going to be like a catastrophe of the season. Philly is not OK. We're going to be talking about that later. So that's a six-pack for the NBA. But I have to bring in Steve Saruti, Orlando Magic fan, producer of the pod.

because there's some Franz Wagner toning we have to do. I handed my Ringer 100 list over a week ago. I think I had Franz like in the low 60s, the list itself didn't do very well. And all Franz has done over the last two weeks has said, not only we're not going to miss Paula, but I'm actually an all MBA player and signed me up for this list. Is this a fluke or is this real?

I think it's real. Uh, I will say my biggest gripe with Franz is that like when in the past with Apollo, like when he would go on these quarter stretches where he'd clearly be like the guy and on a streak, he's, they just like wouldn't give him the ball or he wouldn't be like proactive and be like, no, I'm that dude right now. Like Apollo, take a step back.

And I think this, you know, you never want to say an injury is like a blessing in disguise, but I kind of feel like Franz has found his groove again because he's just the guy now. And I'm kind of hoping like in the long term, this is going to translate to like some a little bit like taking some of the pressure off Apollo and Franz realizing like, Hey, there are stretches where I can be that dude, because I mean, he's everything like 37 and six.

Play that a sixth game winning streak obviously we're recording this after the loss against the Clippers last night And he didn't have a great game, but you know, it's okay. It's six straight great games I I This is everything that we wanted a max player. This is everything that we thought he was gonna be and I'm looking at the wringer rankings right now It's it's doing my guide to service. It really is He's 48

which is, he's behind Scotty Barnes. He's behind, I mean, there are just some guys, like he's behind Dame and he's behind Paul George. You know, I know there's the name recognition, but like you're telling me the Sixers right now, not for like the next two, three, four, five years. Like this year, the Sixers would much rather have Franz than Paul George. The Bucks would much rather have Franz than Damian Lewis. I don't even think it's close. So like I know the name thing, like we want to give those guys respect, but that's insane.

In our defense, when the first couple of weeks, Franz couldn't hit a three and it's like, what's going on? Where's Team Germany Franz? Is that guy coming back? 35% right now? It's not terrible. It could be better. I still think it could be improved, but he's fine. Team Germany Franz seems like he's back.

It's pretty exciting. He's got his brother. He doesn't need Dennis Schroeder. He proved, you know, who knows the trade deadline still. Maybe the magic will be looking for a point that I kind of hope it's not him, but he, he just looks so much more confident, man. And it's not even like the defense is really good. He's like one of where I have a couple of stats here. Hold on. He's one of eight players averaging 25 rebounds for assists and 4.5 steals a game. That's a Luca, Deeren Fox, SGA, Harden, Yokech, Tatum, and Jalen Williams.

Like it's, he's on very impressive lists. So I just love this. It's like the Franz Renaissance thing proving he's a max player. And, you know, who knows, like it, Paulo, you know, he's going to be out probably at least another month or so. So this is the thing is it's probably going to keep rolling. Yeah. The thing you needed was with Paulo going out.

How can Orlando keep their spot as either the third or the fourth seed? How can you make sure you, you stay in the, you're going to win the division. I don't even know if winning the vision matters anymore, but nine and seven losing your best guy for God knows how long is not a bad place to be. We're taping this before the Lakers game, but the pods going up for the Lakers game. The thing with the Lakers, they don't have

Really anyone on the roster to guard like good scoring wings like us or good point guards, by the way. And they've had this stretch where they've won some games, but part of the reason they're winning the games is because they can play this line up with connect and Reeves and LeBron and Delo all together because they don't have to worry about guarding anyone. I want to see if Franz can light up the Lakers tonight because I think he can. It's the type of guy that I don't even know.

you know, who they'd have to guard him. So we'll see. I'm glad Franz is back. I'm glad for your sanity. You're back in on the max player bandwagon. You're back. We flip off the low of the summer, but you're back now. It's good. Well, then the other thing is Anthony Black. The last time we talked about this, like continues to be making strides. So they're laying the foundation. They're not in the Cleveland Boston swimming pool, but they're like the pool right next to it doing laps.

No, but you know what? Like I was talking to a buddy about this. The East is weird because I think before the season, we were like, Hey, it's Boston. Then it's like kind of the next like two through eight or nine. We're like, I don't know. It could be like between like two to three games could could be the difference at the end of the season. Now it feels totally different to me. Now it feels like like the magic should.

Get a home playoff series like that. The top four things should be a thing this year. Right. And you have a playoff series that could be against Miami that could be against Milwaukee. Like you want the home court. You want the, you want the game seven. And then when did they say palace coming back? Yeah. Originally, I think it was six to eight weeks, but I mean, that was like a reevaluation period. So we still have another at least month to go, which you know what?

It's all right. Like just, you know, Franz is holding it down and, you know, I'm just hoping that like there was a little bit of like, hey, you know, creeping into my mind of like, can these two guys peak coexist together? Like they're both good together, but can it? And I'm just hoping like, you know, cause this team is so Franz dependent before he went out or for Paolo went down. Like I remember talking to Reheem about this, like this team's going to be awful to watch. Like they might win some games, but awful and they've been significantly better. So the hope is that

you know, Franz sort of realizes that, hey, I'm that dude too. And I'm, I'm an all-star caliber player, which I've thought for a while now. So we'll sit. Yeah, I was wondering if they're going to be almost like the Steelers where they're winning 18 to 16 and getting six field goals with like whatever the NBA version of that. But yeah, they've been a little more fun than that. All right, Saruti, who's winning the college football championship, by the way? Oh, man.

You can pick. Don't. Don't. Don't. Don't. Don't dip your toe into the Indiana waters because we were talking about that in Brazil as probably the other day and we like set the internet on fire because everyone's mad because he doesn't think Indiana is worthy of making the playoff even with a loss against Ohio State. I would say I'm I think Oregon's still kind of vulnerable. I still kind of like Georgia even though some of their weapons are bad. I if I had to like make a bet right now and then this is just like not putting money aside. I still think Oregon's probably the pick but it's wide open man. It's that's what's kind of cool about this whole year is that there's

You know, three, four, five, six teams that are all kind of in that same, same area. But I'd go, I'd go Oregon now. Uh, I love Dylan Gabriel. The quarterback is just like a dude that wins games. So Oregon's plus 145. Georgia is 24 to one. I'm fandall. Yeah. The problem is Georgia is really good, but their quarterback has just been awful all season long. So if they just get average quarterback play, they're probably better than everybody else, but.

All right. Well, that's it. I just did college football talk on the Bill Simmons podcast. We have Ricillo. We have McShane now. We have way better places to do it. But Sarudy, thank you. We're going to take a break and come back with some football.

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All right. Our old friend, Peter Schrager, is here. You can watch him on Good Morning Football. You can see him on Fox. The last time I saw him, we were in person doing a pod as the Jets were falling apart and somehow that's still going. We're not going to start with them though. We are heading into week 12. There's a bunch of bi-weeks, Thanksgiving's coming up. We're hitting that second stage of the NFL season. We know who's good. We know who's not good. We know there's going to be one surprise team coming. We have a sense of who the seven contenders are. Biggest

surprise for you after 11 weeks. You can say anything. Then you're most shocked by the Jets. You go to the Jets. See, I feel like

I picked the Jets to win the AFCs, but I also like was fully aware of this alternate universe where everything went wrong and that's what's happening. All right. So that the just the fact that like I haven't bought into the hype over here. I live in New York. I grew up with all Jets fans like and I've never been one to say, well, this is the year, you know, they drafted Denzel Mims. This is the year, you know, they got Elijah Moore. This is going to be the year.

Um, and then I, I felt for it. I have said, you felt very hard. There's MVP Rogers videos of you on the internet. Shameful. And that whoever runs that freezing takes or that old takes exposed. Like he has no, he has no problem posting that every single time the Jets lose a game of me saying that Rogers is going to be a MVP in it. We all have those. We've got them out there. It's fine. I, I will say this.

I felt so hard this year for the Jets because I looked at the AFC and I'm like, there's an opening here. I didn't think Buffalo was going to be what they were. I had a feeling Miami would take it down and I thought, you know, obviously New England. I was like, this is the year there's a window. The seas are parting and

The talent and the clip of us talking week one has gone viral again has been reposted and I still don't regret what I said. You go top to bottom on that roster. The names are outstanding and I guess I got caught up in it and it's not fantasy football and there is something called chemistry and when you fire your coach five weeks into the season, that's not always going to be the greatest decision.

And at the end of the day, I fell for it hard and I hand up. I fucked up. I was wrong. Jet Suck. And it's it's it's it's a shame because they're going to start. They're going to try to rebuild this thing. But by the way, everything you just said, we we could probably just insert sixers.

Like I said, boy, it's over for every piece of that. I fell for it. I didn't chemistry. I didn't realize it was going to go sideways. But we knew this was the risk with the Jets. Rogers is old. Rogers coming off major surgery. The son retic thing was weird. Salah had never had a winning season. They were trying to shoehorn this Rogers thing into the Jets. They're the Jets. Bad things happen with the Jets.

I felt for it, too. I picked them over Buffalo. And what both of us missed is what Sal nailed before the season. Yeah. What if this is the Josh Allen year? And now it looks like it's the Josh Allen year. He's your MVP through 12 weeks, Josh Allen's your MVP. And, you know, fantasy is so funny on these Sundays. I know it's like he's, he's looking, it's shot and fraud almost. But like his tweet is so pressing it now that he did on the day, the Monday of week one, where he's basically like just having it on record right now.

I think this Aaron Rodgers thing is going to be a massive failure and everyone's going to get fired at the end of the year. The only wrong thing about it was it wasn't the end of the year. It was before even Thanksgiving. And he was right. So I was wrong on the jets and, you know, I'll take my beating. And the thing that's been a pleasant surprise and I didn't see it coming was what we got in Pittsburgh. And I think it's a really cool story. And of course they're playing as we record this, they're playing tonight. And there's always weird things that happen on short weeks on Thursday nights and maybe division match up. Yeah, goofy weather. The whole thing.

Overall, though, if you told me that Russell Wilson was going to take a visit with the Giants, was going to fly commercial to Pittsburgh, was going to sell his wares as a potential future Hall of Famer to these teams and say, who wants me? And at the Denver Broncos, we're going to pay 95% of his contract this season, no matter who he went to because of what was already owed. And he would be the one leading the Pittsburgh Steelers into Thanksgiving as the one or two seed in the AFC. I would have told you you're crazy.

Well, you couldn't tell me I was crazy because I predicted all of those things before the season. It was one of my best ones. Where's freezing cold takes on that? Come on. Maybe they should have smoking hot takes should be an alternate account or people just crushing pre-season picks. Where's that account? I met the guy who was right and he's supposed to be the two negatives. Where's the positive stuff about the media? Come on, LeBron. LeBron's out. LeBron's out on social media. It does this every year. It's like going to my wife gets mad at one of her friends. So I'm not talking to her again. And then six weeks later, they're hanging out.

28 years on social media. Now LaVron is out. He's too toxic. The guy's name was Fred Segal. That's who does the freezing cold takes. And he like reached out to me, came out good morning. Football, he did a book. I love this guy. Now he's trying to murder my career. He's everything. Well, I think he's an equal opportunity murderer. It's where he's fashioned himself. I got to say, the most shocking thing for me is Buffalo.

I'm not shocked that they're going to get to 10 wins because that was, if you were picking the Jets over them, I thought there's only going to be one AFC East playoff team. And I just thought the Jets had more stacked their way than Buffalo in this goofy year they're having.

So Buffalo winning the AFC is the Jets thinking not that surprising to me, but Buffalo being good is surprising. Yeah. I don't really fully understand it. I don't know enough about like the mechanics of how you get a defense going that seems pretty flimsy.

And yet when you watch them like hats on the ball, sideline locked in really well coached really seems like they're across the board locked in don't really have any weaknesses, which is crazy because they've had a lot of attrition. They've had injuries. And I just don't fully understand it like weird rookie receivers and young receivers or never did it before receivers. A hodgepodge running game with a bunch of running backs. I just don't fully get it.

They're so good. And what they've done is they've found ways to win games that they used to lose. So that Chiefs game, of course, they beat in the Chiefs three different times of regular season. But there was that window where it's like, OK, here comes Kansas City. And after the third and one,

that they go, they think they handed it to Ty Johnson for a one yard loss. That play, you're like, all right, fourth and two. I remember last year in the playoffs, they trotted out the punt team and they ran a fake punt with Demar Hamlin on fourth down. And that one was justifiable in that they couldn't stop Kansas City. Kansas City was going up and down the field, I think my home scored in five or six possessions. Like, all right, we did fine. McDermott took a beating. He became a punching bag. Everyone made their jokes.

They had the courage to say, you know what? Screw it. We're going for it again. And if we fail and come up short, we lose like we'll deal with it. That was courage. So because sometimes I'm like, why are they doing this? But usually I'm saying, why are they doing this when your quarterbacks like James Winston, right?

Or you're, or you have like a rookie quarterback. You're like, why are they doing this? They're not good. They're up to, they're up to. I like, I like it. I thought Romo, Romo sniffed it out. He's like, give the ball to Josh. Let him decide the game. I was like, I actually agree. Let him decide the game. And of course it works out. And Josh is Superman. And that's an amazing, it's one of the all time, like, if that rivalry, that's a play that like goes on the list. If they'd kick the field goal and they'd gone up five,

It reminds me a little bit of the floor against the Buccaneers and then AFC Championship Game a few years backwards. Like we just got to stop them once and we get the ball back.

They didn't want to do that. And that that's with scar tissue from the year before of not wanting to do that and getting burned on it with that fake punch. So McDermott, but you know what? That was, it was a risky non risk because they had like a five game lead in the AFC. It's like, like you lose that game. It's like, all right. So maybe we're going to be a three seed instead of a two seed. Like, but it really wasn't, it wasn't a massive risk. Like if the Ravens did something like that this week, when they're seven and four,

You know, and it's a must-win game against the Chargers. A little higher stakes on that one than I think Buffalo. Yeah. I also think it was a gift for us and our world as a media because Kansas City wins that, then they have a three game lead over Buffalo plus the tiebreaker. And it's like, all right, we've already got our playoff pictures wide open now. Yeah. And Buffalo now. Christmas Day is not going to suck. Christmas Day games is like an AFC semifinals. You've got the Texans and the Ravens and you've got the Steelers and the Chiefs.

Um, so I think it, it was a huge game and it was a huge win. And as much as Josh Allen downplayed it. And I know a lot of people on Monday morning, our guy Kyle Grant was like, as a bills guy, he's like, that was nothing like stop. Like don't make a big deal to this. It was a week 11 game and 100 years will forget about it.

I felt the opposite. And traditionally, I'm the chief's guy. I pick the chiefs to win every year and I've made a lot of bones in the playoffs. And they're going on the road to Baltimore. They're going to win. They're going on the road to Buffalo lesser. They're going to win. I thought that one, I felt like Buffalo was the better team. They were, they were more dynamic. They felt like they had more deep threats and gosh, I thought they were a better coach too. So I thought that was a big win for Buffalo. Drew grew with my theory.

that they kept Kelsey in the garage for that game. Ferrari, I heard you talking about that with Sal. It felt like let's not show all our cards in this game game by then. The thing I was most concerned about the Chiefs and especially like listening to some pods and reading stuff over the next couple of days after the game.

Their tackles might not be good, right? And they figured out a way to kind of, you know, scotch tape shit together. We've seen them do this a million times, but it seems like both tackles aren't really any good now. And I don't know if they can get something going from there, but from an offensive line standpoint, this feels like the shakiest they've been, right? Yeah. And look, the last time their tackles gave us those questions was going through the Super Bowl against the Buccaneers and they didn't have, they didn't have Fisher, they didn't have Schwartz. And we're like, all right.

But they'll figure it out. And then the Buccaneers, you know, obviously a man handled them at the line of scrimmage and the mother lost their super bowl. We're freezing cold takes for that guy. We have multiple videos of us guaranteeing a buck Super Bowl win. I don't see him digging those up. Jesus. Pretty single. Anyway, yeah.

The, the other part of it is like, you know, they throw that, they tried to get worthy involved early. And I was like, it's a little bit of this being chippy. Like, you know, the bills traded us this guy. We're going to get, we're going to get worthy involved. And then worthy steps out of bounds. When he has the whole field, one foot and you're like, that's not cheap football. Like that doesn't go that way. So by the way, that was Patriots football is what it was. I've watched that all year, wide open guys stepping out of bounds. Terrible blocking. Stupid strategies side. That's past football right now.

I get worried about the chiefs with that because their defense has led the way for them. Their special teams has been awesome, now butt goes down and now the Spencer Schrader is going to have to make a couple of big kicks. We'll see. But like, who's scaring you besides my homes? And you could say it's because, hey, when you need him, Kelsey's going to go 10 for 120 with two touchdowns. Maybe he hasn't been that guy. I know he had a couple of big statistical games the last few weeks, but like, I don't think Kelsey's

doing like he was doing it a couple of years ago. And then, you know, you're throwing a ball to Noah Gray and Justin Watson and Juju, like an Xavier Worthy is a nice deep threat, but I just don't know if this chief's team has enough firepower. And it sounds crazy to say that with an Andy Reid offense that has Patrick Mahomes at quarterback.

We said it last year in December. It was one of the, I mean, I think their bottom three explosive plays this year, which seems crazy for our homes team. Like if you have my homes in fantasy, hasn't gone great, but we watched them reinvent themselves.

After that Christmas game, Christmas Eve game, and everyone that was against the Raiders, and they immediately reinvent themselves. They're also, they're built when the weather gets colder, that's going to be good for them too. I don't think it's going to be as good for some of the other teams. So I'm not, I'm not panicking. And by the way, they almost won the game. And I do think of worthy hat and step that a balance. They probably win the game. But on the other hand, you're relying on worthy in these big spots. Yeah, it's going to be the same situation in January, but would you, would you have Super Bowl? You had lions winning at all?

I had, I ended up with Lions over Texans. Okay. Right before the season.

I felt like the Chiefs had become undervalued and I did a Lions Chief Super Bowl bet. That was like 30s. All the Lions stuff was going to hit. One seed, NFC North. I think that's been the least surprising thing is the Lions kind of, they were who they thought. It was the opposite of Danny Green. The Lions were who we thought they were. They were who they thought they were. I did Chiefs over Packers and my Packers caveat. You're not done with that.

And I'm not done with that. And my pack was caveat was they're going to do it as a wild card because the lions are going to be the one seed and going to run away with this thing. So that's all still in play. One thing on the Packers, we're going to know this weekend, I think we're going to have a real feeling because they have a nice game against the Niners that they should win. We'll be talking about a million dollar picks later. If something good is going to happen in January, I need them to win the Niners game. And if they don't, I'm going to be probably tapping out. Yeah.

Yeah, the Lions have been an interesting one because it's been like this locomotive and they really will be one of the only teams in the league in 2024 where everyone's buddy in exchanging jerseys. Like they'll snap your neck. They don't care. Like they, I saw a stat. They scored.

more than 50 points three times from the year 1920 to the year 2023. They've already scored more than 50 points twice this year and they have embarrassed teams and they've also won close games, which is obviously the Vikings game with Jake Bates hitting those fields and then the comeback game with against the Texans. So they've won in a variety of different way.

Yeah, the where they overcame golf, you know, five interceptions and still had a found a way. So like, I kind of like it that it's not just been oh, seven Patriots or 2013 Broncos where they just ripped every team apart. Like they've been in games too. And they've won those as well. And some adversity. It's not like everything went great this year. The best defensive

from four guy in the league, they lost their defensive captain two weeks ago though. I liked the David Logs on it. I thought that was, I was surprised they got waived. I liked them a couple of years ago. James Williams got suspended, golf had the five pick game. You know, it hasn't been perfect, but they're doing the, they're almost like a college football team, some games. Yeah. They're not just beating teams. They're like absolutely select. When you score seven straight touchdowns to start a game, that's like a, you're on a different level at that point.

seven straight possessions. It's wild. Well, it's in the Super Bowl ads. They're the, it's the first time ever in their history. And I don't know how far back these gambling sites go, but I saw it was the first time ever that they are the Super Bowl favorite ever. It has to be one. I mean, it is. It is. I don't think they were the favorites. Yeah. They're 50 right now. The Chiefs are five to one. The bills are plus 650. And then the Eagles are sitting there at eight to one.

Houston's at 17 to one. It does feel a little hodgepodgey. Like you look at some of the Super Bowl matchups because they have all the different matchups and it's like.

You know, let's say, let's say I still feel like the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl. Until they have actually lost the Super Bowl and still in my head, I'm always going to be afraid of that one for Alliance thing. But the Chiefs to beat the Lions is 14 to one. But you look at some of these other dopey ones like Chiefs to beat Arizona is 85 to one.

It's not insane that Arizona could make the super. I'm not really not ruling out anyone as my point as good as Detroit's luck. I'm not ruling out anyone. I'm just not. Well, it's just that way. Detroit. It's like, all right. Let's say they have home field advantage. They want to play off games there last year. They beat the Rams and they beat the Bucks. They did fine. And then they went in the road and lost. And it's like,

how it usually works is you don't put the rare exception of maybe the Eagles a couple of years ago with Foles or like the 99 Rams where you just come out of literally nowhere and you're like, we're just going to win a Super Bowl. Usually you have to go through the progression of you go and you go to the playoffs and you lose a tough one. And then you win another round. Yeah, did it. So like it's all there for them. I just have thoughts of Dan Campbell, time management, game management, close game late going up against.

a McVeigh going up against maybe a Kyle Shanahan who everyone has their own issues with at the end of games, but like has been there also time and time again. It's that kind of stuff that it's an intangible and you can't do it until you do it. But just as so many teams have gotten to the precipice and had to lose a couple of times before they got to that over the hump, maybe this is Detroit meeting one more year. We'll see.

That was my case when I picked them, that there's like actual history. And I think there were four different instances of the team that got really close the year before.

learn, you know, learn something and then was able to apply it and either win the Super Bowl or come really close. And I think it happened like five times. Remember the Ravens lost to you guys. Lee Evans dropped the pass and then Billy. Yeah, we never really kind of. Yeah. And then the very next year, they're like screw it. They go into Foxboro. They beat you guys and then they go in and win the Super Bowl. Like that's a recent memory of a team that had to lose and then found a way to win. Yeah. Well, it's, uh, let's take a break and there's a lot more to discuss.

Well, now we fit the portion of the podcast where I make my guests talk about Drake Bank for 60 seconds. This is unbelievable. This whole week, watching football, Twitter, people like Orlowski wait in a couple of times. All the football experts, like, who's the guy Colin has?

He came in. All the film guys are coming in like, you guys don't realize what Drake May is doing right now. You don't understand what's happening here. I've been going nuts. I did this the most I've texted about the path since like the Flake 8. This is the most excited I've been. F minus coaching staff, no receivers, can't really block running backs. I can't do anything. So I just, this is where I make my guests talk about Drake May. So talk about Drake May.

He's been unbelievable. And I talked to McVay Monday morning. Oh, McVay was another one. Gosh, they called him a stud in that press conference. And I hit up Sean just to talk about, you know, their game, whatever. And then I also said, like, let's talk. And he was just like that guy. I mean, they got their guy and that guy's unbelievable. Like what, what a performance. And the stat I got from my researcher at Good Morning Football, a great guy named Dante says, this was the second time in May's career that he threw the ball 40 times or more.

completed at 70% of his passes. And only two other rookies in the history of the sport have done that. And it's Justin Herbert and it's Joe Burrow and like Drake May has already done it twice. Like we're talking and he does 95% of the offense, which you've noted. Like it's just like throw it on my shoulders. I'll figure it out. They're not even running the right place for them. Like half the time you're like, what was that? Why did we do that?

What are we doing? He's, he's doing it with, with talent that might not be starting on other NFL rosters, which is now, I think a kind thing to say. The offensive line lives a lot to be desired. The coaching isn't exactly the offensive line. Like Cole Strange is coming back and when that Cole Strange is coming back. He's back, baby. We have another guard. It's coming.

It's been really cool to see. In fact, this whole rookie class and not to get off the, the Drake May conversation. You gave me a minute. We could move on. They've all had, they've all had their moments and like as great as Drake May was in the early window on Sunday, I know everyone was watching pills, pills, chiefs like, Bo Nix was fucking amazing. He's gotten better every week for like six weeks.

And, and Moose Johnston was doing the game and he dropped his little nugget and I'm like, oh, I don't, I didn't know that. Like Moose is like, we spoke to Sean Payton in the production meeting, which we always talk about the value of the production meeting, whether you're there or you're not, you believe it or not. And he's like, and he said, he likes Nick's more than all these rookie quarterbacks in the draft.

They're like, that's crazy. He was the sixth one taken. Like, yeah, I believe it. It's the perfect match. There was no crazy ramp up period for him. He's 26 years old. He's played in 61 college games. He's seen it all. He's played at big programs, Auburn and Oregon. He's had failure. He's had success. He's been the senior ball. Sean Payton does not want to work with a

raw product, an unpolished guy that he's got to like frustrate himself with. He wants him to run his offense as like an avatar of himself. Like, here's what you're going to do and do it. There was a pass he had to Cortland Sutton, where it was a play action pass, rolled right, pumped it twice, and then like dropped it in the bucket to Sutton over AJ Terrell. And I'm like,

That's a 10 year vet play that he just did. And he's doing it. So I say all this because May's having moments, Nixon's having moments. Of course, we did Jaden. Caleb's been good. And we don't know what we're going to get from Penn. Caleb's been. Caleb's been. Okay. You look pretty good last time.

This act 44 times. It's the most since David Carr and his rookie year. Like, Hey, look, I can give Caleb a lot of mulligans on this season. I feel like he's been given a tough draw this whole way, whether it be the offensive line. Tough for the dream. May. Fair.

Fair. And you saw a Gruden said Gruden said he'd rather have Drake made than Caleb. I'm like, it's all over the map. I love it. Gruden adding where we invited him the superstar, Drake May Island. We're hitting a condo right now or Lasky has one. But I do have to ask you, did we not? Okay. And I'm not trying to go and be viral for everyone else here. But did we not go down this road with Mack Jones? You and I before, but this one feels a little different.

That it feels, it's completely different. Okay. Mac Challenge, it was like, really good game man and share. This guy can keep us going, he can make some throws. And this Drake May thing, he's doing it despite literally everybody else in every fashion. And I also think, it seems like he's won the locker room over two already. Oh. And how about, he gets to the press conference two weeks ago. He's like, everyone put your phones down. I would just like to say, how about that defense? That's great. I'm like, I'm like, I'm a 22 year old.

Yeah. Now he's, he's figured out all those pieces and you could tell like from the other coaches and the players that are going against them, some of the quotes. Whereas like with Mac, it was like, yeah, it's pretty good. You know, it's like it was never like this, but Mac, I don't know what happened to Mac. I still feel like there's a sliding doors universe.

And it really kind of started when Belichick benched him for a lot of that win that win Buffalo game. Remember that his rookie year when it was like four to nine hour wins. Monday was kind of never the same, but there was a, he played a Colts I think on a Sunday night and the Colts just defended him a certain way and it was like it immediately broke him. They just like they were like throw over us. I think it was a Saturday game Saturday night game on NFL network and like,

The Colts just the defense and the and the special teams won the game for the Colts and it was like oh There's that same I I would add you know with with with Drake May and you and I have talked about this I'm not sure on this podcast or just you and I talking like the Patriots

They love this guy in the building and it goes from top to bottom, front office. I know the impression he made because I know a lot of the folks in that building. When he signed his rookie contract, he showed up and all his brothers showed up and his high school girlfriend showed up and it was like this big deal and I got a text from someone in the building.

That's such a Schrager stupid and tangible thing that if he stinks like, what was that point of time? I was like, they loved it. They were like, this is what we want. We want someone who like wants to put his roots down here and we can just build around this guy. And he is as loyal as it comes to family, to his friends, to his faith. It's all the right stuff on paper. And then now you see it on the field. And it's like, Oh, these guys are going to rally behind this guy for 10 years.

He's, I went, uh, Nate Tyson was comparing the L way. That was like the comp right? Cause I, I couldn't quite get there with the Josh Allen cause it was big enough. All right. We talked too much about him. I can't wait 10 years from now when he's bitter because 93 old craft is spending the least amount of money on the team out of the 32 owners.

It's like, I don't know. Like right now he's like in that young loyal puppy stage that is just so great to do. I do like, I do like how this team has responded, you know, and we go back and forth. I know you're, you're, you're the Patriots voice, but like Bella check in Lombardi and met and in Patricia were feeling themselves a little bit after that soft comment and they were joking and they were making their snide comments and I felt it. I understand.

Uh, they've won a couple of games and the players you've been playing from Mayo, whether or not he's an exes and I was genius. So they have ping pong in the locker room or what? This has been vacillating back and forth. There was, there's obviously craft and Belichick lines here and it's like, I don't know where I am on it. But well, this was a better argument a week ago. The coaching last week was an F minus minus minus. It was probably the worst coaching they've had all year. So I said it straight up. It's not been good, but like they're a live dog this week though. They're plus seven in Miami and, uh,

I don't know. I just think week to week, they're going to be really hard to predict because they easily could be in the Rams last week, you know, up on the Rams. Yeah. By the way, let's talk about the Rams for a second because you're pretty wired in with them. Pretty lucky to beat the paths, a team that made a ton of mistakes that the coaching was abysmal. Then they're playing the Eagles this week.

And all my instincts should be like, ah, I'm taking the Eagles. The Rams are kind of fraudulent. And yet I kind of like McVeigh against the Eagles. I don't know why. I don't know what it is, but him against Fangio. Like I love the way Stafford played last week. I thought he was awesome. Like their receivers are back. Yeah. They can run the ball. Williams is really crafty. Oh, dude. It felt like the paths had him behind the line. And he would just figure out how to get five yards anyway, but.

And then their defensive line can really collapse the pocket and do some stuff. So I look at that. I think that's one of the hardest games to figure out. I don't know if I'm going to be putting a million dollar picks, but are the Rams a playoff team to you?

That loss to Miami on Monday night football was really a slap in the face to everyone who got on that bandwagon. That was maybe the worst loss any teams had this season. It's just surprising. You had a couple of wins in a row. You're back in this thing and then here come this dolphins team who just kicked their ass on national television in their building. Patriots, they should have won. They did win. It wasn't easy. You get back to this one now.

What the testament to the Rams is that Aaron Donald retires. And, you know, the thought is their defense going to go down. They drafted verse. He's probably your defensive player. The all over the place. It's either every week, all over the place. The answers are great about them.

Great and Fisk is the other one also from Florida State second rounder. Their third round pick was Cam Kinchens, who's had two huge picks this season, the pick six against Seattle and another interception that game. And then the game winning the interception against you guys last week. And they got this guy Omar Spates, who's undrafted and wears number 48 and is all over the field and had the big fourth down stop against Seattle and overtime. Now,

What I'm saying is with all this, it's like you could do the FM picks and you can be super aggressive and you can go and make you better nail the draft. And they have nailed the draft and they've found a way to recover from Aaron on overtiring and no first round picks for the last seven years. They've been really good with. On that point, big face. That's something interesting about how they didn't really scout me because they knew they had no chance at them.

And I was wondering like, is that an advantage when you either don't have first round picks at all? So there's people like you're not even, you might as well just cross off 40 guys, you know, you're not going to get, or you're just concentrating on a certain portion of draft versus like having to think about every round. I do wonder if that's kind of a weird advantage that you wouldn't want, but you kind of stumble into.

Sean had a really fun time this draft period. Now quarterback was not going to happen. They were fine with the quarterback with Stafford, but like this was his first, first round pick ever. So he was super excited. And I said, I'm good morning. I'm like, there is no chance that in his first time making a first round pick, Sean McVay isn't taking an offensive player. Sure enough, they took Jared verse. They took a defensive guy, second round, egg on my face. The guy that he loved, though,

And I can say it now. And it's been reported. They loved Brock Bowers, the tight end out of Georgia. They loved it. And when he started slipping, McVay was getting the snappy fingers and like, what can we do? What can we do? I believe they've made some phone calls to move up to get Bowers. It's a great what if, because Brock Bowers is now having the best rookie tight end season ever on an irrelevant 10, the 13 targets a week on his awful team. Yeah.

And the fact is, though, it's what you're saying. They weren't going quarterback, but like they finally had a chance to look at blue chip talent, first round talent in a real way, not in a, well, there's a chance someone might slip or we might trade up. And he really enjoyed the process. So as much as an advantage that might be to, to have a second round pick and not have to worry about the first round so you can look at deeper cut lower, it was, it was cool for him to get that. And then the scouts, they were all in on verse, credit to less need in his guys, like,

If verse falls that far, like we've got to find a way to get a new cornerstone defensive player. And I think they found them.

Well, there was that one year when they didn't have Coles, they were looking at Coles Strange because they were like picking in the third round and the paths took them in my face. Like, wait, Coles Strange just went in the first round. We were looking at him and incredible. Oh my God. We might have fucked that pickup. This guy went the top 30. He came out the next day and was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I was saying. We were actually, I don't, I don't think they had. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds.

Nobody's believed you on that one. But the flip side was he came all the way around and tricked me. So the Rams are plus 360 to make the playoffs. That seems tough. Seattle is plus 290 to make the playoffs. Arizona is minus 140 to make the playoffs.

And then the most shocking one to me, which isn't that shocking is the Niners plus money right now, plus 176. I want to talk about that really quick. Yeah, yeah. Macafrey doesn't look like Macafrey. Nope, didn't. It's the Niners are the classic. Oh, if I, if I saw the sheet of paper, I'm like, whoa, they have a lot of good guys.

But if you actually watch the games, like Iuke's gone, Kittle missed last week. So he's hit the George Kittle red flag stage of his season, which happens every year. Deebo's been hurt a bunch of times already. Jawaan Jennings had to make big plays last week, but McCaffrey just didn't seem special to me last week. And I don't know if it's going to take some time to come back or is this who he is. I don't think their offensive lines is good. I don't think their defense is as good. And I feel like they're still getting

basically last year's value being treated that way versus what I'm watching. I don't think it's just last year. I think it's the institutional knowledge that over the last five years they've started off being like three and four, two and three, four and four. And then they turn it on and they get to the playoffs and they're a really hard team to beat in the playoffs. I too am watching them though last week against Seattle and Nick Bosa.

Clearly hurt. It's a hip. Another one. It's an oblique. Clearly not himself. You don't have Eric Armstead out there anymore. You're now a couple of years removed from not having Buckner out there anymore. All of a sudden you look around and you're like, I don't even recognize this defense. It's Fred Warner doing everything he can as he always does. It's an injured Bosa.

And it's a bunch of younger guys on the back end. And it's like, I'm not scared of this defense. Like I used to be when it was D'Amico Ryan's and Robert Salah marching up and down the sidelines, puffing out their chest to give up an ADR drive to Geno Smith after you held them most of the game. And then especially that final plays like head scratching, not their way. What's killing them is

They lost a terrible, terrible loss in Los Angeles where the receiver bell drops a pass that would put the game away at 21 to 7. That's in a division. They lost to the Cardinals. That's in the division. They've now lost to the Seahawks in the division. You got to really dig yourself out of the hole because I think their best way to the playoffs is going to be winning that division. Huge, massive, massive game this weekend against the Packers. And to your point,

they usually own the Packers and Shanahan's had good numbers against the floor. I think he's four and two all time, but I go to the big games. I go to playoff games and yeah, I think where he most just scored another touchdown from the NFC Championship game back in 2020. I remember a couple of years ago on a Saturday night, everyone Rogers was public enemy number one with the COVID stuff and everyone was taking shots at him and he comes in as the one seed and the Niners come in with

with Trent Williams in a boombox out of the locker room and they beat them in in Lambo and shock the one seat on a Saturday night. And it's like the Niners just have their number. I don't know if it's that same Niners team. The faces might be the same. The coach might still be the same, but like do I have any confidence that that 49er squad that I've seen the last few weeks limp to victories and just get by in their wins and then lose strange games they never lose is going to come in and just push around the Packers. I don't. One more piece.

Packers almost beat them in that playoff game when it was a healthier Niners team. Last year. Probably should have won. Yeah. Bad kicking, huh? Little revenge game for them in this one. And I'm with you. I think the Packers, I think the ceiling of the team versus what we've seen. I still believe in this ceiling. And I don't think they've played that well. And I think they've had some weird stuff happen really starting with that crazy Brazil game.

It was it's a weird way to see super lucky last week against the Bears They're also playing one thing that worries me about that game for them is

They're playing on Thursday night, too. They're playing the Dolphins, right? It's a huge game at home against the Niners, but you also know that other game is kind of lingering afterwards. It's Thanksgiving evening. Thanksgiving night. Yeah. And I always wonder, like, the game before the game, the good news is they're playing the Dolphins that game. Pretty mediocre Thanksgiving. Dolphins have won a couple of games in a row now. No, I know.

Yeah, but now they got Drake May coming to Miami. There's also some weird weather stuff this week too. No, there's no snow in Green Bay. Jordan loves Lee's League of Interceptions. Like you're not wrong. Like they don't look crisp. And then before the event, something like Dobbs got suspended for a game. Like they've looked a little gaming at times, right? And like,

You know, I don't know if this is a positive or negative. Now in the early 2000s, the Patriots had this where it was like, you didn't really have a true number one wide receiver. And the floor said that before the season. Like we look at all those guys, number ones, but every week, it's like Jaden Reed's week, then it stops this week and last week Watson went nuts. Um, so I kind of liked that. I kind of liked it. Oh, I took a craft. He killed the Rams. And then the next week had two touchdowns. Like he does nothing anymore.

It's okay. It's all right. He'll find us saying Josh Jacobs obviously is a weapon and like we could just list names but to me it's they haven't even come close to jelling on offense yet and there's still seven and three and they're perfectly where you want to be like let the Lions get all the headlines. Let the Vikings be sitting there without the tiebreaker over that like let that be there and then stretch run. Here comes the come running team and the come running team might very well be the Packers who got their shit together at the right time.

Right. Maybe as a five seed, maybe as a six seed. We're aligned on this one. There's a scenario in my head this weekend where.

I'm trying to think of the narratives on Monday morning as you're staring at Kyle. Yeah. Um, where it's like Packers. Whoa. Do we believe this? Um, Niners. Oh no, like they're not going to make the playoffs. Holy shit. And then there's this sneaky Lions game. And I, I'm going to full disclosure. I'm putting the lines in a tease.

but it does have like, does it go? It's a little sneaky. Just, it's a little sneaky cause Richardson, I thought played pretty well last week and I thought in general the Colts played pretty well and you know, everyone's so high in the lions right now coming off this giant win and I think they can run the ball over them. I'm not worried about it, but I was just wondering like, could this be one of these weeks? Yeah, we're like, hey, Packers only a game back. Totally. And like one of these weeks, the lions are going to have that game, but

gosh, they, I thought the Titans led icon because Titans came in with the number one defense. They thought the Jaguars may be playing for Doug Peterson's job with all that stuff beforehand. Oh, I'm glad you brought him up. Um, cause that was the thing I was, that was the thing I was the most wrong about this season was, uh, I'm not like the Jets. I walked in with, with eyes wide open, fully knowing it was 50 50. I really believe this in the Jags as,

and AFC playoff team. So did I. And for me, it came down to them versus Denver for that last spot. And I couldn't get there with Denver because of the defense. Ironically, their defense statistically has been awesome. Great. If you looked at it before the season, it's like, I don't see it. What's in here?

And I thought Jacksonville, meanwhile, it's been the opposite. They're one of the five worst teams in the league. Doug's doing the dead man walking. They didn't even fire him after a 52 to six loss. They still might. Like we're doing this on Thursday. They've got by week. Like I don't know how that's going to go down. Well, this is going up fast. So maybe if this happens Thursday night, the Potter will be up. So you think it's still in play.

So I think it's going to play. I think after that loss on Sunday and all the reports that aren't coming from nobody that he was on and, you know, he's on the death watch anyway. Like they have a bye week. Who knows what the cons have going on this week. They might be wrestling or something else going on that they wanted to deal with in the first part of the week. But like, I certainly don't think I would be sleeping great if I'm Doug Peterson. No, he knows. Friday, Saturday, like he knows what's going on. Yeah. It's got a statue.

Um, does there any other coaching situations we should just be monitoring? Maybe guys not about to get fired, but situations that seem a little rockier than maybe it seems to the outside. Like, are we cool with Cleveland these days? What's going on there?

It's fine in Cleveland, two-time coach of the year. And I know the relationship he has with ownership and there's like full trust in him. So I think he's fine. There was a erroneous report that Dable was on the hot seat. I don't think that's true. I think Dable set set in New York. Do we watch the bears the next time we watch? We watch the bears. We watch the bears. We see how they respond. Anytime you fire a coordinator and things don't get better.

The next person is not the court of the coordinator. Like that's, that's the stuff that we look at there. Uh, uh, should I start doing that? Should I start firing inner circle people when I don't like what's going on to deflect blame? Does that work at the outside world? Yeah. Not your fault. I don't know what's going on over there. That's it. This is this podcast is a weird strategy. I have had to change my offensive coordinator. You're the head coach.

You know, the sick part about that was Thomas Brown called a really nice game for the Bears last week. Yeah. Caleb looked good and energy was hot and it's all for naught, like we still lost. But think about one of the things like in the stories and the dialogue after, it's like Thomas Brown simplified it for Caleb to get rid of the ball fast. He got rid of the ball within three seconds. It's like, why didn't you do that three weeks ago? I could, you could have asked me, just called me, cold called me. I would have told you he was holding on the ball too long.

Like we needed a new offensive coordinator to figure that out. I'm a McVay guy. Obviously Thomas worked for McVay for many years over there in LA. And before that was a university at Georgia running back and before that played high school football against McVay. So like McVay's been singing about this guy for a decade. So he goes and gets his job at Carolina. A big promotion flames out horribly. Everyone gets fired.

He goes to Chicago and it's like he finally gets a chance to be an offensive coordinator. And like, he was high energy. He was, let's go. And I'm wondering, I'm like,

You know, Shane Waldron also respected guy, like, and Matt Iberflus. Those are not like high energy. Like, there's a not big vocal guys. Meanwhile, you look at the booth and Thomas Brown is like super into it. He's pumping his fist. And I'm like, as stupid as that sounds, like sometimes the young quarterback needs that just a little bit of juice. Like, let's go. Um, so I'm curious to see how the rest of the season plays out.

plays out for him. That's like what you did for a million dollar picks that year when I brought it up and you came in. You just had a ton of energy. Mid-season edition, baby. Let's go. Well, Joe Brady seems like he's emerged as a possible.

head coaching dude. You have the Chargers defensive coordinator, mentors in the mix for stuff. You have Bella check, you have Raybo, you have Ben Johnson, who I think just wants to sit at the bar in a cocktail dress and have people buy him drinks. I'm not sure he actually not even ever wants to be a head coaching job. Not even like two years ago, he was a Carolina guy. And Tepper was like in on Ben Johnson, like he didn't even take the interview. He's like, I'm good. Last year,

I have it. I'm pretty good sources. He was Washington's guy. Yeah. They get on a private jet to Detroit to go meet with him again. And they find out while they're on a private jet that he's withdrawn his name from the interview process. And he's going to stay in Detroit.

I don't even know if he wants to be a head coach. And I don't think he loves the idea that he's looked at as this guy who flirts. He doesn't even flirt. He's like, I'm good. So I would imagine this is the year, but he could be, he could be picky here. I don't think he needs to take any job. This is the year and I doubled down on it with my future picks before the year, but I was just like, I just, I'm defaulting to good coaching. You know, like Sean Payton over.

Jim Harbaugh. I know it doesn't make sense, but I just feel like he's getting the nine wins and maybe making the playoffs. I had them both in the playoffs this year. Next year already, I can just tell you, like Belichick and Reibel taking over whoever, I'm just going to be like, I'm in on those guys. Why are you so convinced Belichick's getting a job? Well, that's a good question. I'm not. I'm convinced he wants a job. If he didn't get one this time around and Atlanta obviously went down the road with him. Why after a year will he suddenly be in demand?

Great question, because especially coming off and not a great path here. I think, I think craft was definitely poisoned in the well a little bit. I think he had a reputation as a curmudgeon and as a control freak. And I think the two jobs that made the most sense were Atlanta and Washington. Atlanta hired Rahim, who's, you know, was a really, really, really good defensive coordinator who was going to get another job. Like it wasn't like the heart of Schmuck in Washington.

Dan Quinn, it seems like that was the right hire. I got it for that. Great energy defense. It's worked out. I don't really know if there's another job. Like Tepper wasn't going to hire him in Carolina. No, no. This year, Jackson Vegas seemed like the two spots that you're bringing about a chick. You're bringing his whole infrastructure. He's going to be in charge of everything and you're just handing the thing over to him. Those seem to be the two franchises that just need someone like that. Let's go down the Vegas line.

Brady Brady hires Brady's first big opportunity to Brady's hiring his Belichick his old head coach and they're going to bring in Josh McDaniel's and Mick Lombardi and the whole gang from from like they did that a couple years ago. Like that was their right staff. They went the new England route. Like the only thing I would push back on is are we sure Brady's going to be that involved.

Good point. I don't know. Like, you could tell me either. You could tell me he's going to be super involved. I would imagine he just got a deal on a 10% NFL team. And he's just going to do this benefit more. Brady are the Raiders to have Brady as a Raiders minority owner. I would think the Raiders would say we would love his insights and have him weigh in on decision-making when it comes to football. I would say Brady because he got an unbelievable deal apparently in the team.

He's got some legitimate and like half price like the NFL owners are pissed about it. Jacksonville needs, I mean, if I think for able because he's younger than Bell check should be a better candidate to bell check as much as I love bell check. He's he's been 70s. Yeah, but I do think that's been a lot of this media stuff has been a rehab tour.

Of see, I do have a purse now. So interesting. You say the game surrounds himself with a Chris Long, who's a super likable guy on television, a Chad Johnson on television. And he's playing along with those guys and he's on with the mannings and he's great. And it's he's doing McAfee like he's just he's worn on the boxes. Totally. And look, if you're talking about who do you want to sit down with and talk ball with or who's going to be the best exes and those guy in the history of the sport, it might be him.

I know these owners, I'm trying to think, I think Sean Con is your best bet of like, who's going to hand things over to Bella check and whether or not he has a whole bunch of other stuff going and doesn't want to manage the day to day. You deal. It's like, I just, you take it, you go, which is, I think what he thought he was going to have with Trent Baukey, right? And then has him worked out. Yeah. And he thought he had that with Urban Meyer.

And that didn't work out. I think Bell checks to give you a Jacksonville. And I think Vrayable will get a really good job. I can't imagine he's not going to be head coach next year. That's crazy to me. So he's been, he's been talked about obviously a lot and a lot of people thought he got a real deal in Tennessee, which is fair. He's won a lot without a real true number one quarterback. Tannehill was solid for a couple of years.

think about railway is in Cleveland right now consulting, but it's that's almost like, Hey, just let me stay with the team. Let me stay in the mix. You can't, you can't pin any of Cleveland's season to bad season to like, well, look, Ray Bull had a bad year. Again, though, Ray Bull, like,

former Patriot, all that, like, is for able the Jets guy? I don't know if that's a great fit in New York. I don't know if he wants to go there. I'm just trying to do mixing, matching about what's going to be available. And I look at some of the places that are going to have openings. I think bears might be available. I think cowboys is going to be available. I think Jets is going to be available. Would you want the cowboys job?

It's tough. It's tough because he's going to be involved three giant contracts. It's basically like you're taking over in 76ers and the owner historically has been very well. They haven't had a real voice of like pushback or resistance since ourselves. I mean, I don't think Wade Phillips was that guy. It wasn't Garrett and it wasn't McCarthy. Those guys have been great football coaches in their own right and when they had to be, but like they're not guys. We're going to scream at the owner. Yeah. Well, last year, last year, the Chargers was the best job.

hundred percent. You get Herbert. You have a team that underachieved because of the coaching situation. You have actual talent in place. It was all lined up for somebody to come in. Jackson building me is a pretty good job. You still believe in trouble. Yeah. If you're walking into a going, I think Lawrence can

be a guy. I think he could be on the somewhere in the Herbert Mae vicinity. He's just they did this wrong, this wrong, this wrong. We can build him back up and you're probably watching every pass and play that he's done over the last four years trying to decide if this was his fault or if this was

the infrastructure, but at least like you go to the Giants. Who am I getting? Tommy DeVito? Like you go to Vegas. You're going to have no chance of any guys draft. Yeah. That's what you're getting. Or Chicago would be the other one where you get you're walking in with Caleb. You have draft capital. You have a city that gives a shit.

That's kind of what Canales stepped into in Carolina. If you get like a Caleb that just had a scarring, rookie season, how do I build him back up? You know, like Rice Young was destroyed last year. How do I build him back up? That's a challenge in itself. Working progress. Working progress. I would quickly give you a name and obviously

I say this and a lot of people roll their eyes because he's been meant as a head coach before, but like. Depending on how the second half of the season goes in Washington, I think Kingsbury is going to be a name to watch because of what he did with Jaden out of the gates and he's got head coaching experience. It's not for everybody. It's and he has faded in the second half of every place he's ever coached, whether it was Texas Tech or Arizona or even, you know, USC last year.

Um, but I would keep an eye on Kingsbury as a sneaky candidate for a few of these places just because of his ability with these young quarterbacks. And that's what you're drafting. And I do think, you know, he was bad in Arizona. I don't know how much of it was his fault, but it didn't go well. Yeah. Um, with that said,

He's been amazing for Daniels. And if you feel like it's a quarterback match, maybe. The thing is you have a 25% chance of hitting it with the coach. We're just watching it. There's eight or nine guys and then there's everybody else. Totally. That's what happens. Like, would you want the New Orleans job? The shocking thing to me is how many jobs I wouldn't want that are available. It's like, oh, cool. I get to take over the Panthers. If that became available, no, thank you. Oh, the Saints.

I get you're under estimating. You're underestimating the egos, the careers, and what it means to be one of the 32. And a lot of these guys know going in some time, but not, not if you're Ben Johnson, though, and you're not every year you have your pick. Like it's cool. I get to coach Derek Carr.

Oh, I gave no Connell for a whole year. Oh, yeah. Sean Payton tells the story about like he, he got interviewed by the Raiders in 03 maybe and he was the offensive coordinator of the Cowboys and out Davis made the pitch and then, uh, you know, the Cowboys came back and said, we'll pay you as much as they're paying you to stay as offensive coordinator. And he does. And then the next year he visited New Orleans and he was like, there were still tarps.

On the homes from Katrina and like we were embarrassed to invite free agents in Because if they even saw this place they would never choose to sign He's like we had to offer twice as much money to assistant coaches just to even consider this place is like it's not like that but

When you go into these teams that are so much behind the able, like it is a real, real hard sell to like a top top coach, which is one of the reasons why you don't get some of the premier coordinators or the hot names going to these franchises. And everyone's like, all the fans are like, well, let's just hire that guy. No, no, no. A lot of times it's the coordinator has the choice or the hot name has the choice. And it's like, I'm not going to go step into that. I want to go to the place that's the most desirable. Well, it's funny the way we laid that out.

Maybe Vegas is a more desirable job because you come in and you're like, hey, Vegas, no state tax.

Hoppin city right now doing great. We have the NBA's coming. We got a baseball team coming. NBA's coming like shit's got NBA cup when they do the home of the UFC NBA cup like shit's happening. Are you going to go to the NBA cup again this year? No, I'm on the fence. The semi final game. There's the two in a row games on a Saturday. It seems kind of fun. But I will be at

I'm doing a double dip this weekend. I'll be in LA. I'm going to go to nuggets Lakers on Saturday. And then I'm going to go. And then I'm going to, I know I'd like to see him. Then I'm going to go to Eagles Rams the next night. And then I was thinking about extending the trip one more day because you have Raven's Chargers. So pretty good LA sports weekend here. That really is. Well, well, let's leave on that because we're hitting that a million dollar picks. Raven's chargers chargers sneak one out last week.

Like it was a sneaker, slayed some ghosts. Ravens could be seven and five if they lose this game. The Ravens are favored by three. And I've liked the Chargers all year. But something about the Ravens on turf coming off a loss is scary to me. What's your take on this game?

I don't know man. Chargers are really good. And last week it was obviously all written to just charger it up and they found a way to somehow put their foot down and not let that happen again. Now, of course, the kicker from the Bengals misses that kick and it's okay, but it was all going the way. It always goes for the Chargers after being up 27 to six and they found the way to hold on and Herbert had to leave a drive at the end. Yeah. And he did. That was good.

And at the end, it's like, Lad McConkie has no demons and no ghosts from, you know, previous years, and JK Dobbins doesn't know any of that stuff. And they've got guys on defense who weren't a part of those teams, like new coach, new fuel, like, I could see them beating up on the Ravens this weekend.

Ravens last week, they finally get a good effort from their defense. They finally get this performance where they keep a team under 20. And on the flip side, they only run the ball with Derek and re 13 times. They missed two Justin Tucker field goals. They looked discombobulated after the timeout on the two point conversion. There's penalties all over the place.

I don't feel great about this Ravens team. I didn't feel great when they won against the Bengals on a Thursday night and they give up 35 points and 500 yards passing. Like, I don't know. I know the Ravens are favored and this game's on the road for some reason. I could see the Chargers winning in this game 100%.

It's a must-watcher. That one's great. Packers, Packers Niners is going to be great. Some good ones. Rams Eagles will be fun. We have a couple of good ones. I think Dolphins, Pats could be really fun too. I heard you and Sal Jochen about, you know, did you know that the Buffalo fans jumped through tables? Where do you stand on the Harbaugh brothers going up against each other in a game? Are you good on that storyline or is it not enough?

Is that what's happening? Yeah, they actually. So one of the teams they're going against each other. I didn't see that. Nobody's talked about that all week. It's actually kind of interesting because one of them is last name Harbaugh and the other one's last name is Harbaugh and their dad actually coached too for Western Kentucky. Same dad. Same guy. How many times did they coach against each other when Harbaugh is on that or twice? They did a Thanksgiving game and they did the Super Bowl. Oh, yeah, the Super Bowl and John won both times.

I still don't understand how the Niners lost that Super Bowl. I went to that game.

One of the weirdest sporting events. I'm sure you were there too. Long blackout, the whole thing was just the weirdest. Maybe I'm just the neurotic New Yorker here, but the lights go out. Everyone thinks this is hilarious. I was freaking out. I'm like, what's going on? Like, where were you when it went down? I was in the press box, which is not easy to get down from the top of the Superdome. I was in a suite with the one and only Nathan Hubbard. Yeah. And, uh, and the lights went out and.

The first thought is like, is something horrible happening? Then the second thought is, what if the lights don't come back on? What happens to the Super Bowl? And then it was super disjointed, but the whole game was disjointed. And then all of a sudden they were on the five yard line first down and it just, the pace was off and it was really weird to watch in person. I, it was, I haven't been to like a million NFL games because I love watching them on TV, but that was, I think the weirdest one I've been to in person. Frank or runs the ball down to the five yard line Kaepernick throws, I think.

the repasses to Michael Crabtree. One of them, maybe the Randy Moss of all people who was on that team out of the end zone. And that's how it ends. It's a crazy, crazy Super Bowl that's forgotten in the, the lore because of the, the blackout, but it was, it came down to the final minutes. And like, that's another one that Niners fans add to like, there's a whole version of the Belieger Jets Browns fan. And now one's crying for Niners fans. They've got all those Super Bowl rings, but like they have had some devastating playoff losses over the last two decades.

Yeah. You're right. You don't think of them as the tortured fan base because they've been in it every year. But what was the last one? 1995? Yeah. Well, Steve Young. Yeah. Steve Young and the monkey off his back with Gary Plummer. Yeah. That was the last time they won a Super Bowl, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Montana won four and Steve Young won one drought on par of the New York playoff football drought. Thirteen years for the Jets. And I was the last Giants playoff one. Was it cerebral? Now a couple of years ago, they beat the Vikings to be. Oh, that's right. The David Jones game. I bet on that game.

We didn't talk. We didn't talk about the Giants decision. All year. All year. Lock number two. DeVito gets the call. They're just trying to save money, right? It's just for a game. No, DeVito brings a spark, baby. Let's go for what? They should want to lose every game. I would play Daniel Jones every game.

There's like, I want to, I want the weird thing is the draft goofy because the top two guys, it seems like our cornerbacks, right? If you say, Travis center is a corner back. Yeah. You can play receiver sometimes. And then there's not a quarterback in the top eight. Wow. The two left. Just get ready. Just get ready for the Shador Sanders. I trained my friend. It's coming. It's coming. It'll be real. It'll be real. I'll be getting off that train. You don't, you're not a fan? No, I like them. It's just,

We do this every year with the job where we're settling with like, these are definitely the five, six, seven best guys. And then as we get closer to everybody starts talking them into these quarterbacks. Yeah. It starts rising up. All right. Uh, sad. Everybody in New York, great to see you. Uh, I want to, I want to talk, uh, I want to talk about, uh, Jay Lenov me and thrown down a hill, but we didn't get to that point. That's just not, not funny. I guess, huh?

I listen, I will say if I was the host of the conspiracy podcast, I would have done a lot of legwork on it because it just a lot of stuff doesn't add up. I'll just say that. I bet on some text threads today wondering what's going on here. It's a crazy online story. And it's this heartening because I like leto. I mean, I think it's a sweet guy and he loves the craft. But what are you doing? What are we doing? Hampton in on a Tuesday night in Pittsburgh. What are we doing here?

Right. Well, and also if you, if you take it, you take like your own parents and just put them in the situation of some of these and it's like, do you know what happened to Bill's dad? He fell 60 feet down a hill and his whole side of his face is black. Like what? That's the worst thing I've ever heard. And then some celebrities, they seem, somehow seems less weird. And it's only so old school that like inside edition is doing like things like interview with them. It's like, where, what am I watching?

Yeah, there's people doing tweets. Like, you know, like someone is trying to kill Jay Leno. How much evidence do we need? And it's like, at least investing at this, I'll kick the tires on it. Uh, Peter Schrager, great to see you. You're the man, dude. Thank you. All right. That's it for part one of the podcast. Thanks to Peter Schrager. Thanks to Sarudi for hopping on. And thanks to Cobb Creighton. Remember,

You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And remember, part two of this podcast is coming as soon as we can get it up. We're gonna talk about the Philadelphia 76ers. We're gonna talk about million dollar picks and a whole bunch of other stuff. So stay tuned for that. See you in part two.

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