Hello and welcome to a Papercut Special Edition. I'm Miranda Sawyer. On Thursday, John, Javan and I huddled into the studio for a live Zoom Q&A for supporters. Here is a little bit of what we discussed. John Prescott, Weird AI Pets, whether or not we would date Michael Gove and much more. For the full thing, why not sign up to the Papercut supporters club? There is a link in the show notes.
Welcome to this Papercuts Live Zoom. I'm Miranda Sawyer, and I've got my 89-year-old dad, a personal walking trainer, just for the cash opportunities. No, sorry, for charity. Yes. We're here at Papercuts Towers. That is this place here in the evening. Very exciting. Happy to spend an hour or so with you, our lovely Papercuts supporters. We'll be looking at a couple of news stories from today, plus also answering some questions that you sent in.
And if you're suddenly struck with an urgent query that you want us to answer while we're actually chatting, you can bang it into the chat and I can read it out. Just remember our areas of expertise, which are Rocky Horror, yim-beying, pegging.
And making John do his sexy voice. Joining me today, we have author of a history of the world of 47 borders and demon late night snacker. It's John Ellidge. Hi, John. Hello. That does sound like, I mean, you did ask me what my late night snack of choice was and I said this, all of them. Yeah. But now you say it out loud in that form. It does sound like you're just calling me a criteriously fat. No, it's now calling you demon. And also with us is host of American Friction and only protein will ever pass his lips. It's Jacob Jarvis, hi, John.
Hi, yeah, I would like to one day eat something and not think about what it's going to come up as in my fitness belt when I put it into my phone, but, you know, that day's yet to come. Yeah. OK, so look, we have got a story stuck at the beginning. Shall we have a go at it? All right. So it was on the front pages this morning, but it was all over the website. And that is the news that ex-labor cabinet member, John Brest, got has died. So for younger listeners, watches... Do we have any younger listeners? I don't know, but I'd like to assume that we have.
Prescott was like the Angela Rainer of the 1990s. He set mail and with a stronger left jab, which he used to good effect on a mullet head who tripped an egg in his face when he was on a walkabout in 2001. So we wanted to have a little talk about John Prescott. What we thought we could talk about was a little bit about what happens to your legacy as a politician when you die, because it slightly shifts, doesn't it? OK, so John, what do you think John Prescott's legacy is?
So he was at the time he was very much portrayed as this kind of punchline figure, which is a terrible thing to say, give him what you just said. But he was literally like, you know, it's like, oh God, he's got a funny Northern accent and he's not very articulate. So the time he smacked someone kind of fitted into that narrative quite nicely.
Yeah. But actually, he did also sort of hold the government together. I mean, he was the link between new labor and the old labor party on the backbenches. He was often a set of the peace envoy between Blair and Brown. He was very involved in a lot of policy. I mean, like his department, when he was first deputy prime minister, was a combination of what is now deferer, so environment, rural affairs, food, and transport and local government, all rolled into one mega department. And it didn't all come off.
He was very big on regional devolution, we never got that at the time. But he was also instrumental in negotiating like the Kyoto protocol on climate change, like Albor put out a lovely statement about how he's lost a great friend and so on. He's just one of those politicians who looks
Better in retirement, I think. Like a few years ago, he read the shipping forecast, which I listened to earlier, which is absolutely lovely. Yeah, and he just seemed quite human, doesn't it? I think that when people die, I mean politicians, if you're someone like me, so I'm obviously interested in politics, but I'm not a politics nerd, then the main thing I thought about John Prescott when he died was I kind of went, oh, I quite liked him. He was a nice bloke. He seemed human.
And the humanity kind of came out in maybe comedy moments, so him hitting the guy with the mullet and also him getting water and be thrown over him by Chumba Wumba at the Brits. And really, you're not going to find getting up down fame. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. They're only fame. And he was, he was really. He didn't get up again.
and he was really upset because of his wife's hair and his wife's hair was also mentioned when he got into he was driven 250 yards to go to a climate change conference and the reason was given was because his wife who had mad hair like proper lacquered hair was that she didn't want her hair to be destroyed in the wind.
So those kind of things. Yeah, exactly. Those kind of things are what I remember before, which is appalling because obviously he did do like the key. I just couldn't remember. I'm very glad that John is on this panel because all I can say about John Prescott is he punched someone. Yeah, exactly. So that's what you remember. That's the legacy. You have to, and he knew that was going to happen as well. So he's done interviews where he said, the only thing I will be remembered for is the fact that I punched this guy. And, you know, you know, he made a joke out of it. He said, you told us have more contact with the electorate.
And I did. Do you think that there are politicians of today or the recent past that might be, like you said, during the time when he was actually a politician, he was slightly ridiculed. But now he's dead. People are like, actually, he was pretty good. We really liked him. And I think that all politicians are pretty much ridiculed, aren't they? When they're kind of doing their politicking. Do you think that there are people that might be rehabilitated in that same way?
that are around now? I mean, we're sort of seeing a little bit with, I mean, I haven't had John Major years ago, but we've sort of seen a little bit of it with Theresa May, which I find awful because she was terrible. Like, people always talk about how she had really strong principles. And it just felt like to me, like her strong principles were, the Tories should be in power and I should be prime minister.
And I can't quite see what the other principal is meant to be. I think it's just like she looks, she looks better because of what came on either side. Exactly. She looks better because she does seem like a woman of principal as compared to Boris. Yeah. Really. I mean, she is compared to Boris. Yeah. And this truss is compared to Boris. Yeah. Exactly. If that's your metric. And also like you're going to like what you would remember her for what I remember before. And this is like, again, the pathetic kind of punchy thing is the dancing. That's what my kids know her for, that she did a terrible dance.
You know, and like Boris it will be party gate. I mean I remember for the hostile environment and people remember it for for that yeah I would say I agree with John that I really hope she doesn't get sort of a bit more glow up but she is I'm not sure of the ones I mean Gordon Brown I always think he's underrated in New York in it as well to the ones who I think are kind of I think of the more recent ones I think Michael Gove is probably gonna.
go down the likely national treasure in a way he doesn't particularly deserve. Yeah. It's a seriousness to him. Yeah, maybe on pop, but she says he's on a dating app called Field. OK, that's that. I mean, that's the information that I have. That's why I am here as well. Yeah. OK. Yeah. And he's been on that. And they're all in.
People don't use their real names all the time. I will recognize a picture of Michael Gull. People don't always use face photos and stuff. He calls himself Andrew, which is his second name. Look up. That's right. Oh, come on. Just for the show. Swipe right. Come on, John. I can't believe it. I can't believe he's letting us down in this way. It's unbelievable.
Yeah okay so michael girl will be remembered for various things including being on field going on a hot date with john. I'm sorry i'm just going to use this for the rest of show i can't i can't recover from that piece of information. I thought we got diverted into his bloody sex life he did take his brief seriously.
Yes, I realize this. You could talk about housing a lot, you and Michael. But I just mean like he was actually, whatever department he was running, he kind of cared about policy. Some of his ideas were fucking mad, but like he did actually have ideas. He was like, I want to use this job to make the way it wasn't just about getting to the next step on the ladder.
Yeah, I feel like you could use this in your, you know, when you go out with them. You could say, John, you could say, can we go? Michael, Andrew, whatever you want to call yourself. I've not been paid enough for this. Just like several appreciated the fact that you've really taken your job seriously. Come on.
Anyway, the part of a live show, you can't just drop the sting in and change the subject. No, we'll drop the subject. We may return to it. Right. OK, we're going to do another. We're going to move on and do a different story. Yeah. And it's a very serious story. It is. Yeah, it's a very serious story. It's about a new type of pet.
It was in the garden the other day and it was written by a writer called Justin McCurry, who's based in Japan, and he was given a new type of pet called a Moughlin to look after. To be honest, he didn't do it very well. Geoff, do you want to explain what a Moughlin is and whether you would like one?
It's basically like a, if you remember Furby's. I do, I have one. I've got a lot of info about. Okay. So the Furby's little, sort of furry animal things. It's like a very advanced one of those, but mixed with this is a deep cut for any nerdy people listening in, but the, the tribbles from Star Trek. So these little furry monsters. No, the one, no. Star Trek.
not the really cool ones that were on the little motorbike. No, they don't let you pace. No, yeah. It's like they were opening all the cupboards on the spaceship and all these things were dropping out. So yeah, they're just like little baubles made of fur almost sort of thing. They're quite cute. So they've made these Casio has made them in conjunction with some of the smart people. Yeah. And Mothlin's role is to build relationships with humans, but they wanted
They are quite cute. But unfortunately, they're a vermin, I think, sort of alien vermin, creating infestation on the enterprises. It's terrible. I'm not actually a Trekkie to know entirely. But yeah, they're these expensive 300 pound Furby's and they are, you know, hang out with them, but they basically have AI to be incredibly emotionally intelligent. So they will develop
A relationship with you, they agreed. Their mood will change based on the environment, they have attachment issues, if you leave them in the charging dock, but if you leave them alone too long, they get a bit annoyed, they make little noises and all this sort of thing. And so this guy hangs out with it for a little bit of time. And to be honest,
It doesn't sound like it does the job entirely so he feels even alone very self-conscious with it. I think it was rubbish, but I also think it's sort of.
The thing about pets, I would say, and so with my dog is that the one thing that makes you incredibly bonded to them is the responsibility you have for them. Yes. But that is also because they are an actual living creature which could actually die. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, with when I'm looking after cheese, the dog, I'm sort of like, I'm very conscious just how much I am responsible for her. And that's actually a really nice feeling in a lot of ways, having some think little that depends on you that you look after and just, you know,
Completely. This fucking thing, it might feel like it, but you can turn it off. I mean, there's maybe there's some perks to it. There are times I'd like to turn my dog off, but I wouldn't feel as emotionally bonded to her if I could just shut her off. Can I just say, Jav, that when we first thought about this piece, you were like, this sounds great, because the thing I don't like about cheese is having to pick up the poo and feeder.
What that is that but then i i really like i wouldn't like it you got to take the the rough with the smooth i suppose i wouldn't care about as much if i didn't have to do those things i mean yeah i would love she does this really annoying yap when she needs the the bathroom in the middle of the night which is is very good to me she doesn't go to house but still it's a free am and you just hear this yap and going around and i'd love to be able to turn those moments off.
But maybe there's a maybe with this thing it has to be and you can turn off at night, but has to be on all the time of the day. I mean, basically, he didn't spend enough time with this little thing, right? And they get marks at the end of the week, right?
Mark yeah there's like a map so it's like a Tamagotchi so you like with a Tamagotchi like if you haven't fed it like the little things the little bars would go down it's like that so basically this guy this journalist gets this thing which is worth 300 quid and looks quite cute and furry and doesn't bother with it he just puts it on his
He just puts it to the side and kind of goes higher and leaves it. It doesn't really do anything with it. So at the end of the week, it kind of marks the owner and he gets two out of 10 for cheerfulness, two out of 10, three out of 10 for activity. So he hasn't really taken it for a walk or anything, four out of 10 for shyness and zero out of 10 for general attentiveness.
But maybe he just he just didn't bother with it. The marking as well makes it feel even more like it's just a task. It does remove the benefits of a pack. I think it's genuinely like, get one of these before you have a kid. Well, it's literally what dogs are.
It's very, very true. Yeah. I mean, we've already got dogs. And if you don't like dogs, you've got other animals. Yeah, they're right. This sounds like all the disadvantages. Yeah. And then, I mean, like, all this bollocks about being like, oh, they're emotionally intelligent. It's like one of the nice things about having a dog is like sometimes when I am very sad, he gives a shit about that. He doesn't understand why, but he wants to cuddle me and I'm licking my hand. And it's nice that another living creature
Actually is there to be bothered by it. And if it's like a little weird fucking wig in the corner. It's just weird. It doesn't. It's just like the uncanny valley. It's just like, get real on or done. Yeah. The other thing I suppose though as well is that with Henry Scampi, he can choose to be a loof as well as anyway. But that also then means when he's cutly, you really appreciate it. And that's one thing with cheese. Cheese is kind of
She's not quite as cuddly as I would like a dog to be sometimes and she sort of gets really annoyed at me. I'm sort of like, I would be of an even dog. Don't like cuddles. Like come here. Hang out. She ever really does. Or she just really does it. But again, that's her personality. That's what that's what makes if she was just.
Immobile and i could just force it to come hang out. Yeah there was a thing that part of the article i did think i was quite cute with that and you can use this kind of thing and they've got a bit a bigger one which is much more like a cuddly toy and you can use it for kind of elderly people with dementia and they just have something to cuddle that kind of is not the risk of in that i kind of thing that's fine that's fine.
I also have to say, I had a Furby, right? I did have a Furby many years ago, so probably in the 90s, and I thought it was quite cute, but I remembered quite a lot of aspects about it that just drove me mad. So it had, it's quite plasticky, it's more plasticky than you think, and it's got this funny hair, and when it shuts its eyes and words around it, you can hear it, so it's a bit like, do you know those weird toys in Toy Story that live next door, and they're like mutants? It's a bit like that, because you can hear its eyes go,
and it goes like that. I'm just doing the maths of how old you were in the 90s. Oh man, I was just like, until I had kids, I was so young for my age. I was ridiculous. I was still, I was like a teenager until I had kids. And what it used to do though, it did used to talk to you, it would kind of fart and go, and then it would go, again, like that. And eventually, obviously, it drives you mad and you put it in a drawer, right? Yeah. But when you put it in the drawer, it still talks to you.
It's really weird. That's actually true of dogs as well. He goes, no joke. And then you'd open the, you'd open the drawer and you go, Oh, be light. Oh, God. It was weird. So look, we have various questions from people, right? Shall I give you some of them? All right. Okay. Okay. This one is from
Ili Shave, and it says, if you became Prime Minister, what policy would you enact on day one? I'm going to throw that to you, John, because you're the politics person, not me. Go for be a capital offence.
Golf fair enough, that's very, yeah, I agree. Ridiculous way, we use so much land for golf. An area the size of the London boroughs of Hackney and Tower Hamlets put together is given over to golf in London. We could get a couple of million homes there. It's terrible for the environment. It's not green because you're throwing chemicals in these things. The greens look nice, so it's not good for the environment.
They're not necessarily open to the public. You don't want to go for a walk on them because you don't want to be hit by golf ball. It's a complete waste of land. It's very, very, very small number of people. I wouldn't actually execute anyone. But you could make them crazy. Oh, yeah, you make you change the tax ratio. It's what you actually do. You say, like, we're not going to like, we're going to charge, use a land value tax or something specifically for golf courses. And it's like, you can still play golf, but you're going to be paying quite a lot of tax.
Yeah, I just think you can still play golf, but you can only pay crazy golf. That would be yeah crazy golf is great crazy golf is brilliant exactly that get them all to play, you know, when you have to go up the little the little ramp and down through a small castle round the corner and then get a hole in one. I mean, that is skill. That's what I'm why is the only crazy golf wasn't like crazy tennis.
That squash, isn't it? What's that new thing that people pay? Pedal, puddle. Pedal, puddle. It might be that. What about you, Jaff? What policy would I enact? No more guitar solos in music. Very good. I agree with that. Unless it goes like this.
Yeah, no, we decided that I was getting questions in the office for it in a wrong opinion, but I said I don't want any more songs over three and a half minutes long and no more guitar solos. No more than three minutes. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you. I put the three and a half to stop myself getting answers. I would have childcare or reasonable price. I know it's rough. What a weird idea.
OK, so Janet Heffernan wants to know, Jav, why is your dog called Cheesius? Why is your dog called Cheesius? So my girlfriend named the dog Chees and she is named after Method Man's character in the wire. Oh, OK, that's fair enough. So yeah, it doesn't suit her particularly well whatsoever. She doesn't know it doesn't suit her.
No, no, it's just a name. And my, you know, my girlfriend also likes cheese. We just like cheese. We've got the, I think next would either, I want it beans to be the next dog, but we're thinking chips. So we can have chips and chips. We literally know people who've got, we know someone who's got a dog called chips. Already. Yeah. I like chips. Or I like it. If I get two more dogs, I'd like Hal and Lumi. So it's hung up together. Yeah. But then you've got, so we've got cheese. We've got chips and scampif. Well, actually, it's called cookie.
for dessert. Well, like we used to, I just now used to talk about if we ever got another dog to go with Henry scam people called Jeff Chips. Jeff Chips. And we got so into this, we decided what breed Jeff Chips are going to be attached to a particular picture. And I remember at a party being very drunk, showing people pictures of the entirely theoretical dog Jeff Chips.
I think that you should definitely get a gift of chips. Okay, look, we've got a question about columnists. Actually, we have got, there's another question about columnists, which I'm going to emerge into this one. This one is from Gemma JubeTube, and it's like, who is your favorite columnist? I think we already know Miranda's, and that is the great Adrian Charles, obviously. But there are others that I like. But there's another question which I will find, which is about columnists. This is from A.M.E.T. Are there any writers or personalities that you'd like to see try being a columnist? Okay.
I have an idea around that okay so during the nineties there was a column there was these two columns in the sunday times that were kind of rubbish and kind of amazing and one was done by Meg Matthews who was dating and eventually marrying Noel Gallagher and that was called yeah and it was like what she did.
like during the week you know what party she went to what rock and roll lifestyle she had and then underneath that there was tire upon mccotonkinson who is this posh woman and first was called yah and that was like what she did every week and then neither of them actually wrote it they just phoned it in literally and then somebody would write it up and i think
the next layer of kind of Nepo baby. So basically, in Aesch Gallagher and Lennon Gallagher would make a really good column for that kind of, yeah, thing. And then the Yarr thing could be, Liz Hurley said, Damien Hurley, they would make fantastic columns. That's what I think. Do we not already have enough posh people giving opinions?
But it's not opinions, it's literally just their diaries, it's what they do. There's no opinions involved, it's just nonsense. And then, you know, you kind of need someone to hate on a bit. And it's not, I don't... That's very much what I'm for. Okay, so look, is there anybody that you like, whose columns do you like, and who would you like to see, write a column?
So as I'm going to go to the opposite end, I'm actually going to say like the the columnist I always find worth reading because it annoys me so much because his takes are so just so diametrically odds with reality as far as I can see. But that makes him quite readable is Genanganesh at the FT.
Oh, I don't know him. So he was, so he was, he was wrote a really, well, he wrote a baffling piece called like, you know, life lessons at life's midpoint when he turned 40, which was always stuff like friends aren't real. No one really cares about you. I like relationships were a bad idea.
And it's just like, you just know self-awareness whatsoever that this is just like how is it coming across. So he's got started, I believe, because he used to be sort of, he used to work with George Osborne, so he was basically his representative on a funeral. And he once wrote a piece about how he left Twitter, because actually it was a very low status thing to do. Low status? It's like Twitter is just populated entirely by people who talk rather than doing it.
You're a columnist. What do you think you are? And also, you can do both. You can talk and do, you know, like the same time. My answer to who's column, who should make a great columnist is actually Taylor Swift, I think. Oh, do you think? I think she's too nice.
No, I think she would write lots of furious material about who had wronged her this week. My commissioning editor hat on, but get a lot of clicks. You would definitely get a lot of clicks. I just feel like Charlie actually might get a bit more of the dirt. Do you know what I mean? I feel like Taylor Swift could be the sort of one who is like accidentally cancelable, though, would just really casually say. Like a side swipe. Yeah, just then just say really incredibly overprivileged stuff, which people would just lose their shit out and she had to say it like it was really normal.
Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll just, like, win it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll, it'd be great if she turned out she was racist against, like, someone completely unexpected, like, and it turns out she thinks Bolivia is in a real country, something like that. That would be amazing. That would be amazing. Anything like that, Nicole, I might appreciate. What about you, Jeff? Who, which columns do you read and who would be your economist? Uh, so I say, Adrian Charles is always funny. Yeah. Someone who's good, Stephen Bush at the, the... Oh, bloody hell.
He's very good. I'd read him writing, but that's just because I'm a big nerd on his stuff.
My favourite ever football manager, Nigel Pearson, he could be a columnist and I'd listened to him. He once accused the journalist of being an ostrich. Yeah, those kind of things had told our own fans to to fuck off and die. Yeah. And he's still my favourite manager of the club ever. So yeah, I'd have him be a columnist on football and just about anything else.
OK, that sounds quite good. I think Lily Allen would be a good columnist, but I don't think she would do it because I think it would actually send her mad. But you want somebody who's a bit like that, you know, like you said, like somebody spiky. Yeah. We have some more questions. OK, John, this is a question. OK, you like to go for long urban walks. What is the most surprising one you've been on? I mean, how long? I mean, how long is your longest one?
at 20 miles. 20 miles. And how long does that take? Is that five hours about? No, no, that would probably take you seven. Okay, yeah, long. I haven't done that long in years. I've come, my stamina's gone way down. There's a point. Do you need some new trainers? Yeah. Well, no, I think what it was the, that was the longest I've ever done. And I did do it and completely the wrong shoes. And for about a week afterwards, my feet hurt so much that I wanted to throw up every time I moved further than the bathroom.
Oh god, that sounds terrible. Where are the right shoes, kids? Don't make my mistake. I recently took a friend of mine on a six-hour long walk, and just as we got out of Hackney, he went and he was like, this is the furthest I've walked in years. And I just went, you know, the walk hasn't started. And he went over past Krennich, and he chose to wear boots. And yeah, he was just, before we left my house, I said, do you want trainers? Are you sure? Are you sure you're right? And yeah, he looked at the skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts, sort of,
translate along by the end of it. No, I just think he lives quite rarely in a sort of place where it seems like he just, he drives everywhere he goes. Yeah. So when I said a big walk, I think he thought like, walk into the big scenes. Yeah, like an hour, like back and forth. And then yeah, it was about six hours one way. Oh my God, that is mine.
Well, let's hope you feel like you know us all just a little bit more now. If you want to hear the full thing and more extra bits and get no ads at all, you can join the PaperCuts supporters club. Visit back.papercutshow.com to sign up. See ya!
