"Morning Joe" Grifters Meet with Trump, and Outrageous Attacks on Tulsi and RFK, with Glenn Greenwald and David Harsanyi | Ep. 947

Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at New East.

Welcome to the Meghan Kelly show and happy Monday, November 18th. It's a new era in America, President-elect Donald Trump getting a massively positive reception at the UFC fight in New York City, including getting handed the championship belt from their top superstar, John Jones. Jones and many NFL stars this weekend doing the Trump dance to celebrate. Did you see that on the NFL?

Trump, MAGA, being a Republican, is cool now. I mean, it's the greatest brand comeback ever, ever.

It's cool. Think about how the Democrats have been portraying Donald Trump. And now you have these NFL football players openly doing the Trump dance all over the Sunday television. It didn't work. It was such a disaster. It appealed to and persuaded absolutely no one. And guess what?

as you know, it was totally insincere. And that is where we are beginning today with the absolutely ridiculous pair on the MSNBC morning show, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski.

How long have they been telling us that he's an existential threat, that he's a hitler-esque figure, that he's a fascist, that women will die, will die if he gets elected? Well, they've done a 180. They've done a 180 as their ratings circle the bowl. And we've got the sound bites to show you exactly what we're talking about.

Joining me now to discuss it, Glenn Greenwald, host of Rumbles System Update.

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Glenn, welcome back. Great to see you. Great to see you, Megan. Okay. This is so juicy. I'm so thrilled you're here for this. You deserve this, Glenn. You deserve this after your chest infection and the whole thing. Glenn out. Glenn is the best president. Here, we'll start with, let's just start with, we'll do it in reverse order. SOT 2, what they were saying ahead of the election.

When is the time to sound the alarm? When is the time to start saying, well, does this look like Germany in 1932? His obsession with Hitler that has now come out. This is not a reach. I could go back and talk about Nazi Germany, and I do it without any concerns whatsoever.

who they are running against, a dark, dismal, fascist, and increasingly obviously fascist person. He's getting through the moment as an aging bullshit artist. There's always a tinge of racism and everything he says. If you can't believe it and this is your choice, you're lying to yourself and you're gonna ruin this country. Hateful, racist, bigoted, tired, aging,

branding, I wouldn't say genius, branding obsessed narcissist. He will imprison, he will execute, whoever he's allowed to imprison, execute. They're knowingly voting for a fascist. They're voting for a racist. Get a graphic scene, like he was having oral sex. Oh my God. With the microphone.

That was before Trump won. This morning, it's dawn of a new day, Glenn. Let's watch.

Joe and I went to Mar-a-Lago to meet personally with President-elect Trump. It was the first time we have seen him in seven years. What we did agree on was to restart communications. In this meeting, President Trump was tearful. He was upbeat. He seemed interested in finding common ground with Democrats on some of the most divisive issues.

And for those asking why we would go speak to the president elect during such fraught times, especially between us, I guess I would ask back, why wouldn't we?

Joe and I realized it's time to do something different. And that starts with not only talking about Donald Trump, but also talking with him. And I'll tell you, a lot of Democratic leaders, we've talked to this past week since the election, have told me, get in me, it's time for a new approach. And what I see. And verbally and personal attacks will not work. My hair on fire doesn't work. We've all seen that.

What also does not work is threatening political opponents with arrest, harassment, and even jail. That is a failed path. This will be a consequential presidency. The question is whether it will be constructive. As for us, we also let him know that we will continue to speak truth to power and push back hard when called for as we have with all presidents. Don't be mistaken.

We're not here to defend or normalize Donald Trump. We're here to report on him. I searched for a way to respond appropriately and I called on my 10 years as a litigator in addition to my now 20 as a journalist. And I think I found the perfect phrase, go fuck yourselves.

Go fuck yourselves, you dishonest jokes of faux journalists. What an absurd farce that was, Glenn. Which one was insincere? He's Hitler or now we're going to speak truth to power and find a way of speaking to and working with Donald Trump. Which one was a lie?

You know, Megan, I thought about this. This is not hyperbole. I've given actual thought to this. I've done rankings. Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski are the most humiliated and pathetic people in all of corporate media. And I realized there's a lot of serious contenders for that crown. So if other people have someone they want to slot number one, I wouldn't necessarily say it's unreasonable. But the thing about them is

Unlike other people in the media who have been completely unhinged about Trump being Hitler, Trump being in bed with Putin, the steel, all of that, those people actually believe it. Like they're that insane. Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski don't believe in anything other than their own career and their own ratings. Remember Joe Scarborough was elected in the mid-1990s as part of that Newt Gingrich counter-revolution

that was supposed to be this far-right contract with America. Then he gets on MSNBC, he continues doing that until MSNBC demanded full-on anti-Trump hysteria. But in the 2015 and 2016 election, you were the one to point this out actually very well.

Nobody did more to promote Donald Trump in the Republican primary than those two. They would allow him to call into their show and did it constantly. No other candidate. Why? Because it was the only thing that got ratings. He saved all of their jobs. Then once he got elected,

calling him Hitler, calling him all of this, that became the way you get ratings and then doing that through the campaign. But now that Hitler has returned to power, the first thing they do is tuck their tails and fly tomorrow long ago and not even interview him, meet with him privately and personally, and then justify it with his journalistic veneer. It is so repulsive. And the reason for it, as you know, is that MSNBC ratings

haven't just declined precipitously since Kamala lost. They basically have disappeared. There's nobody watching that network anymore for so many reasons. And they obviously have calculated that the one thing that can save their jobs again is reestablishing a relationship with the fascist dictator Donald Trump in order to get him back on their show, knowing that's the only thing that people will want to watch. It's so opportunistic and careerist and so much more respect for the insane people on that network who at least believe what they're saying.

Me too. Me too. I totally agree with you. I never thought I'd utter these words, but I agree with Keith Olperman.

Keith Overman's reaction is my reaction, at least in part. He says, in part, I told you so. These two are Trump collaborators, not a word. Mr. And Mrs. Vichy Quizzling suggesting that they're Nazi sympathizers say, can ever be trusted again? This is the part where I agree with him.

Not that those words ever should have been trusted. They are confidence, tricksters, and grifters. That's exactly right. They're grifters. These two, yes, worked day and night to try to get Trump the nomination back in 1516. They embarrassed themselves and sacrificed any pretense of journalistic ethics in doing it. It was true, boot licking. I'll just give you a little feel for it in Sussex.

And it's going to offer you the vice presidential nomination. Will you accept it? I'll do anything that we'll get. We'll stop us from eight more years, like the past eight years we've had. Do you don't want me to do the one sort of deportation? Nothing, nothing too hard, Megan. OK, it's a family affair. They say you can tell a lot about the person by their children, Donald Trump Jr.

Go on to their father here on set. You're three children. Everybody talks about how they're hard workers. Is Donald Trump a summer flame? No, I suspect maybe he's going to be an autumn affair as well as a summer flame. And you know it's my hair. Well, I do, because I tugged on it once. Michael, what do you mean pretty good? You know you loved it. Wow, Trump, you're naughty.

I forgot how bad that was. I forgot the question. So stomach turning. They're so disgusting. Okay. And then what happened was Joe Scarborough found out he was not going to be the vice presidential running mate. He had been rejected for that position and they turned. They turned on Trump because access to power is everything to that small little man. I'm going to tell you something. I was recently asked to

be part of a debate, and I was considering doing this debate. And then they told me that Scarborough had been subbed in for the other person who I was going to be across from. And as soon as I heard his name, my answer was no. In no world would I ever.

appear with that credent. He is as low as you can go in our field, in our media field, and that's saying something, Glenn. He will do anything, say anything, to make himself feel important. So he was mad he wasn't going to be the vice presidential nominee.

They spent four years trying to go after Trump as though they had never boosted him to begin with. Then Joe Biden comes in, they treat him like he's God, like he truly is another FDR. And they celebrated him accordingly every morning while demonizing Trump. Of course, the January 6th stuff, they made it into another 911 and

They lied to us about Joe Biden and his mental health for years. Joe Scarborough was the worst one on the Biden lies because he had access to him. He liked rubbing elbows with him. He felt like he had the he had the ear of someone in power. Then came the disastrous debate.

and Joe Scarborough had no choice but to come out on the air the next day and acknowledge what we all saw, which is this man is totally incompetent at the time. I called him Sible, which people of our age will know that reference. It was this one with multiple personality disorder played by Sally Field. In the movies, here's a little bit from that chapter of the Joe Scarborough saga.

Sanders sold him when I said he was cogent. He's far beyond cogent. In fact, I think he's better than he's ever been. He spent much of the night with his mouth agape and his eyes starting back and forth. He couldn't in fact check anything Donald Trump said. He missed one layup after another, after another. Tragically did not rise to the occasion last night. It is July the 5th.

This happened eight days ago and decision time is not upon us. Yeah, such an historic decision should not be made in haste. It's really incumbent on people that are around Joe Biden to step up at this point and help the president and help the man they love and do the right thing.

This is not going to end well if it continues to drag out. It's a lot, Glenn. Just in case you didn't see the movie, this is just here's just for fun. Let's play set five.

No, you give them away from me. I will, I will, I will do it. I will do it. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. I just love you today. Bush letter back, hug around the neck. I love you. Just tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle. Paper is valuable. Paper is valuable. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It's valuable. It's valuable. You can see now.

That's them. That's them incarnate Glenn Greenwald. Am I wrong?

Right, but at least simple had like an actual mental disorder. I mean, they might as well, but it's not multiple personality disorder. It's just like a rotten soul. It's just a complete lack of values. I know I definitely want to focus on them. They deserve it. But I have to say, this was true with the broader press, you know, and the Democratic Party. I mean, the idea that Donald Trump was Hitler was not some throwaway line that happened occasionally. It was a major theme of the campaign. Remember, they promoted

This idea from John Kelly that Trump had admired Hitler, that he said he wanted to be like him. Kamala Harris, the last week of the campaign, so bravely used the effort fascist to describe Donald Trump. There were covers of liberal magazines where Trump was on the cover with a little Hitler mustache and them saying why we compared Trump to Hitler. This was a very serious theme of the campaign.

And then the minute Donald Trump wins, everything changes. Joe Biden welcomes Trump to the White House, shakes his hand so warmly, I still believe it's like 50-50 that Joe Biden voted for. Donald Trump could have outrage of what the Democratic Party did to him. But in any event, not only did he basically hug him and warmly welcome him, he said, whatever you need, Mr. President, it'll act to smooth the transition, your transition back to power, Adolf Hitler's transition to power, we're here to give you.

Nobody believed really what they were saying. I mean, some of them did, like the crazier ones did, but this whole thing was so fabricated. And to watch Joe Scarborough, you're exactly right in the motivations that you're attributing to them, obviously part of it is ratings. But the bigger part is this, there were so many news reports that morning Joe was Joe Biden's favorite program because he woke up every day and he was heralded. As you said, it's this historically important figure, the greatest president since

FDR or whomever. I mean, it's kind of funny watching Joe Scarborough venerate FDR, given the the platform. I would be in Congress and served in Congress. Not just Republican, but like Newt Gingrich, like war on the government contract with America Republican running the answer of public and establishment.

And they are now, I mean, I think they're days away from doing another Trump call in because Trump will allow anyone to humiliate themselves before him and then he'll give out little crumbs as incentive to keep doing it. And it doesn't work on people with dignity, but it works on most of the people in corporate media led by these two. I think they're going to, I think they're days away from having Trump call back into that show. Literally no one wants to see this fence mend it.

No one. No one. The few people who are left watching Morning Joe do not want to see that. And the Trump fans have zero desire to see that. He doesn't need them. They've spent years knifing him.

all over the back, nonstop. What good comes of Trump having a renewed relationship with these absolute disgusting traders who can't stand him, who did their level best to stop him by throwing the most vile charges imaginable at him?

And then they go out there, Glenn, and act like they are a Henry Kissinger, like they've been asked to go to a summit to negotiate world peace, international diplomacy. It's all, it all comes down to them where they say,

We didn't see eye to eye on a lot of issues and we told him so. What we agreed on was to restart communications. Who the hell do you think you are? Who gives two shits about you two restarting communications with Donald Trump? We don't need you. He won the presidency without you. In fact, with you as a sworn enemy,

Megan Mika Brzezinski actually compared this pilgrimage that they just did tomorrow ago to what her father did, who was an actual diplomat, Tiffany Brzezinski in the late 70s and through the 80s in traveling around the world, meeting with foreign adversaries, trying to facilitate deals. And that's how they see themselves.

But I think it's really coming from the sense of desperation. Like imagine you're these people, these people who work inside these networks or on these op-ed pages of the New York Times, the Washington Post, everybody you talk to, everybody who listens to you, all thinks the same. And so you really feel like you're part of this powerful movement where you're claiming Trump is Hitler, he's in bed with the Russians. You feel like you're so influential, like you're really at the front lines of the resistance.

And then the American people go to vote and they vote for overwhelmingly the exact person that you've been claiming and telling them is the greatest threat to America and American democracy for years. And not only do people go and elect him, but as you just showed in that clip, he's a racist, he's a white supremacist, and you have this huge migration, historic migration of non-white voters, Latino voters, black voters, and all non-white voters away from the Democratic Party to Trump. Of course, they're internalizing, wow,

We are just speaking in this irrelevant bubble. And of course, part of it is how do we get back our ratings? So our network doesn't collapse, and our careers don't collapse, and our lucrative contracts don't end. But a lot of it is a psychological internalization that, as you said, nobody gives a shit at all. What they're saying, the only people who listen to them are people who already are convinced by that. And it's a vanishing spew numbers of people.

who believe that and they know that so they're desperate to say how do we worm our way weasel our way back into power. And like I said, I think Trump enjoys when people humiliate themselves before him as kind of a way to acknowledge his power and he lets them do it.

And as long as they keep doing it, I do think he'll throw them some crumbs, but the idea that they're going to be these influential figures ever after they betrayed every cause they profess to believe in betrayed every faction of which they ever said they were apart is beyond stupid. I mean, it's desperate. That's why I say it's pathetic. Then then Mika has the nerve to say, okay, for those asking why we would go to speak with the president elect, I guess I would ask back, why wouldn't we?

I have your answer, sister. It's because you two just spent the last eight years literally telling us he's a Nazi and your rhetoric has helped cause a reaction to his win that looks very much like this.

You guys feel spicy? Cuz I do. No matter how loud, how kind, more respectful, how cute, men will still fucking hate you. What am I talking about bringing that 4B movement right here to the United States? I have a lot to punch in. Operation 4B. Refuse to date men, get married, have SCX with them, or children.

All I have to say is good luck getting laid. Me and my girls are participating before being movement. No more kitty cat for moderate men, but being all the things that the patriarchy wants us to be. Clearly, they don't give a shit about us. No attention to men. Delete flock, do not respond to them. Government cares that they're not having kids because children are the future labor force. I'm gonna start farting and getting fucking crazy. Hang on crazy?

It is the best thing I've ever done for my mental health. We're not crazy. We have to do this together.

All of these leftist women, Glenn, are joining up with this thing called the 4B movement, where they're not going to be having any boyfriends, any husbands, any sex whatsoever. Yes, I support your decision. Any offspring, again, C.1, because they're so enraged that Hitler, patriarchal woman hating Trump just got elected. Where did they get that idea from?

from these two. But Mika Braczynski was on the view in her own show, crying, crying, saying women will die if he gets elected. And now she says, why wouldn't we talk to him?

Well, also the expectation was that it was going to be women who were going to rise up and defeat Donald Trump led by Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney and Nancy Pelosi. It was going to be this woman's election where women were the ones who united against this patriarchal misogynist who was trying to kill them and make sure he didn't come to power and elect the first female president. And it ended up that.

not only did was the gender gap way smaller than anybody predicted a majority of white women voted for Donald Trump, close to a majority of all women voted for Donald Trump, something like it was 45%. So even the idea that this is a movement that came from South Korea, where we're going to protest the patriarchy by refusing to get married or have sex with us or appropriate. It was a tiny number of women who did that.

You know, it really reminds me all these people who are saying this is that kind of psychological dynamic with which we're all familiar, which is I would never want to join a club that wouldn't have me as a member. No one's looking to try and, yeah, exactly. That wouldn't have me as a member. None of these people, no one's looked. Maybe, you know, there are men who want to have sex with them, but it's not like they're the

kind of person that people are seeing as their ideal wife and mother. You can just see that in the videos so they can shave their heads. They can do whatever they want. But the idea that they are somehow speaking for women or all women, all you have to do is look at the tens of millions of women who voted for Donald Trump.

And Latino women, black women were the one group that kind of stayed loyal to the Democratic Party, but still a non-trivial number of them voted for Trump as well. Of every single ethnic group, of certainly the working class and the working poor, women, large numbers, tens of millions voted for Donald Trump. And the idea that they think they can speak for women or are avenging women by denying something that nobody is seeking is laughable.

It reminded me of a couple of years ago, Stephen Crowder came on this show and he was talking about how he and his wife waited to get married and his, they're now divorced, but his wife is beautiful. Stephen's not a bad looking guy. And he's like, and I got to tell you, man, he's like, you know, my wife is beautiful. And you know, like, it was not easy to wait. And he's like, sometimes we look around at these very unattractive couples and they're like, we waited. And we're like, yeah.

It's like one of those situations. No more sex. Well, I'm really feeling like your sacrifice is that great. In any event, that's how lunatic, the leftist fringe of the Democratic Party is not even fringe. The leftist base of the Democratic Party has gotten thanks to the messaging of these two. I mean, and others like them.

She was just out there. This is my last on them because I don't want to devote the whole show to these grifters. But listen to Mika right before the election on the women's issue.

We are fighting 24 seven. We're in crisis. These are the final hours. We need you. We need you and all of you to vote. This is the moment and we won't have it again. This is the final hour for women. Trump's America for women is happening now. And it's a nightmare. This is the future that we're looking at. He is killing us. I'm talking about us, women. He's killing us.

Why wouldn't I meet with him? Yeah, he's backing power. So now Glenn, after those two get out there and act, you know, like they are Brzezinski, senior or Kissinger, Trump, I don't think really much liked the tone of their summation of how things went. So he truth out. Oh, it's not. Oh, never mind. Oh, never. Yes, it is. What do you mean? It's not? What? Hold on. Okay. Never mind. He, he did not truth it out.

a team. Yeah. Well, I don't know. We thought he had, but now my team's telling me this may be fake. I don't know whether this is fake or not. I won't read it until it was not real. Okay. Good team. Thank you. That's important to know. Well, it's probably. You know that he does.

Because who do they think they are? I realize Trump is trying to be magnanimous. He's happy to watch them embarrass themselves. But I say again, there is no one who's rooting for this reconciliation. No one. Okay, let's move on because they're... Do we have to? All right, I guess we can.

I can do it the whole show, but yeah, let's move on. I have a lot of other fun things that I know you're going to love. They are trying to nuke some of Trump's top cabinet picks and you're the perfect person to discuss this with.

Let's start with Tulsi because that's right up your alley. Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset. This is what we are hearing more and more from this left-wing press, which hates her and it certainly echoes the Hillary Clinton line at which she busted out and David Plough's podcast. Here's, I mean, a while ago, but here's HRC setting the tone. They're also going to do third party again.

And I'm not making any predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who's currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third party candidate. She's the favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far. I will guarantee you they'll have a vigorous third party challenge in the key states that they most need it.

That was October 2019. And they're resurfacing this. This is all over the news. This is all over the top Democrats talking points on Tulsi where they're openly suggesting that she might be a Russian asset. I'll give you some more examples, but your initial reaction to this once again coming up in an effort to sink her.

There's probably the thing that over the last eight years I've had the most contempt for when it comes to the Democratic Party and their followers as a reaction to Trump. In fact, my breach, my irreparable breach with the left wing of the Democratic Party came as a result of my immediate contempt for this whole Trump-Russian narrative. I think the last time I was invited on MSNBC was the

end of 2016 when I went on to say we need skepticism. These are these are anonymous leaks coming from the CIA and the FBI and into the Washington Post and the New York Times. We've seen throughout history how often those kinds of narratives that are coming from these agencies to interfere in our politics given to these two papers turned out to be completely false. That's how just as an example the Iraq war intelligence was

fabricated a disseminative to the American people coming from these agencies, leaked the New York Times and the Washington Post that then mindlessly put it on the front page. And I urged there to be a skepticism. I said, there's no evidence that Trump and colluded with Vladimir Putin or the Russians that happened to these emails. Why would they need Trump to do that?

There's just no evidence for it, but there's a hysteria around it. And of course, I said that on ground zero for this hysteria, but what also really bothered me was the fact that it, you know, I had somebody who was steep in a civil libertarian background. If I had to describe my politics, I would describe it that way first and foremost. And the one of the civil libertarian nightmares of the 20th century was the McCarthy era where

He may have been correct that there were communist infiltrators in the government, but he was constantly accusing people of being that and destroying their lives from reputations with no evidence. And he accused a lot of people for whom it was not true that they were in league with the Kremlin or were agents for the Russians. And it reminded me exactly of that sort of climate when the Hillary campaign first launched this with this ad that had this very menacing baritone, like, what is Donald Trump and the Russians? What did they have?

and comment, what are they doing in secret? And I was like, this is McCarthyism, like just the script, the rotted script from the bowels of the CIA, rejuvenated. But also I thought it was very dangerous because the Russians have the largest nuclear stockpile in the world. And they're all based on these archaic Cold War systems. We both have many, many intercontinental nuclear tip ballistic missiles aimed at one another city to create this environment where no one can ever

talk to the Russians, understand their point of view, or get accused of being treasonous or a Russian agent, is so dangerous on top of journalistically baseless. And then to take Tulsi Gabbard of all people who I have some foreign policy disagreements with her, I've gotten to know her very well.

She's somebody who has devoted her life to fighting for her country. And a big reason why she came to dislike these intelligence services was because she went to Iraq and fought there when Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and George Bush and Dick Cheney were sending her there and came to realize that she was sent there on false pretenses. But she stayed in the army. She's in the army reserves as a lieutenant colonel to this day.

Imagine being her and hearing all these people who constantly cheered for wars like Hillary Clinton but never went and fought in them, questioning her patriotism and her loyalties by fabricating this claim that she's a Russian asset. And if you listen to any of these interviews where they call her that, the one thing that is missing always because they never get pushed back. It's just to assume that she is that. So if you say it, nobody asks you for evidence or reason.

is any basis whatsoever for accusing her of being that. It's just an accusation that is deemed acceptable and true, but no evidence is required.

Right. They, they're mad, I think, because she said initially if we had just listened to Putin and his objections about Ukraine and NATO, the Ukraine war could have been avoided. Well, that's not that big a news flash. That's not that controversial, but based on that, that you'll see that recirculated his evidence. She's somehow working for the Russians. Um, this is the AP writing as follows. Uh, Gabbard's sympathetic views toward Russia.

cause alarm as Trump's pick to lead intelligence services. I should have reminded folks he's chosen her to be the DNI, the director of national intelligence, which is a position created after 9-11 to help coordinate intelligence amongst the intel agencies. They write,

Gabbard's past comments, supportive of Russia, as well as secret meetings with serious president, a close ally of Russia and Iran, are attracting fresh scrutiny from Democrats and national security analysts who fear that as Trump's DNI, she could give Russia a major win, undercut Ukraine, weaken national security, and endanger intelligence ties with allies. And of course, you're like, who? Who's saying this about her? Tell me everything. What do they know? Guess who it is?

John Bolton Glenn. It's John Bolton and for good measure.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like I said, in the circles, it's assumed. And I think what you said here is so important. There are two reasons why people decided this was true of her. One is that right at the start of the Ukraine war, there were very few people who were saying this, but she was one of them. And I had a lot of people on my show like John Mearsheimer and others who were saying the same. And all of us got put even on formal lists issued by the Ukrainian government and Ukrainian intelligence of being Russian propaganda.

even though it turned out to be completely true, which is that there is no possibility that a country of the size of Ukraine could ever win a ground war against Russia, that the Russians will militarize their entire country. They have five times larger the population. And everyone who said that was instantly accused of being a Russian propaganda. And as it turns out, not even anyone in Ukraine anymore, even Zelensky believes that Ukraine has any chance to win the war. And now it's just a question of how to negotiate land away, because

Ukraine has been utterly destroyed. All of which was totally avoidable because Ukraine and Russia came very close to a peace deal right at the start of the war. But Boris Johnson and American officials went there and said, we don't want this peace deal. We want you to fight Russia. Victoria Newland, Boris Johnson, people like that, they have all this blood on their hands. Again, hundreds of thousands of Russians in Ukrainian died for no reason. You have 45, 50-year-old Ukrainian men on the front lines being forcibly sent there against their will. It's a horror show.

And just because Tulsi Gabbard based on her experience in the military in Congress said, we should try and resolve this war peacefully rather than let it go on. And because she went and met with Assad at a time when the United States under President Obama was unleashing this dirty war, this billion dollar year CIA war.

to change the government of Syria to dislodge Assad. We fought along ISIS and al-Qaeda. Those were our allies who were also trying to achieve that goal. And she was like, why are we destroying Syria? Just simply to change its leaders. How is that our role? This is not in our interest. And so she went there. People have forever. Pelosi met with Assad in 2007 when the Bush administration's formal policy was to isolate Syria and Assad because of their interference and what the United States was trying to do in Iraq.

There's, as Mika Brzezinski said, there's a long history of going and meeting with adversaries in order to keep the channels of communication open. Based solely on those two issues where she dissented from the foreign policy consensus, they're basically accusing her of being a traitor to her country, even though she has spent her whole life fighting for her country and defending it as she believes is the best way to do it. It's repulsive and disgusting how they get away with this.

They say the same thing about Tucker. He's in alignment with her on these positions. And they say the same thing about him that somehow he's Putin's stooge. It's like, well, walk me through it. When did Putin get to him? What was it? I mean, because they said long before he went to Moscow and actually interviewed Putin, they said this about Tucker. Well, what is it? Cause you know, my, my relationship with Tucker goes back a long way. Tucker's a blue butt blood. He was, he was raised in the United States. He went to a student boy school that he still tells fun stories about like, when did they get to him?

when he was at MSNBC, when he was at CNN, when he was at Fox. Because you go back and look at his commentary then. It didn't sound like it does today. So it must have been some time in the Fox years. I don't remember Putin sniffing around Fox News when I was there. I think I would remember it because I actually did go to Moscow a couple of times and interviewed him too. How did he not get me? How was I not comparable? It's just so absurd, sick of this stupid card coming out time and time again. And my team today reminded me, Glenn,

Um, citing newsbusters, which did a good report on this, how often they, they bust this out, not just the, this go around. But last one, this is on Trump's first cabinet in 16 CNN and Jeff sessions, Trump attorney general pick dogged by racism allegations. All right. That was random. Um, okay. Here's Tillerson, who is secretary state, a Texas oil man with no government experience and deep ties to Vladimir Putin.

And then they went on to rip on half the other cabinet like Scott Pruitt at APA, like putting an arsonist in charge of fighting fires, Jonathan Chatham, Ben Carson, delete hood, a world-class scammer, okay, one of the most respected pediatric neurosurgeons in America in the world, but world-class scammer. So they do this every time. And they shame people out of saying to their senator, who's going to have a confirmed vote on these people,

I like him. Like, I like her. Like, I'm good with it. And they gin them up into calling being like, Telsi Gabbard is a Russian stooge. Or as Elizabeth Warren put it in Putin's pocket. Listen to her. Sat 9.

You really want her to have all of the secrets of the United States and our defense intelligence agencies. Well, when she has so clearly been in Putin's pocket, that just has to be a hard no.

You know, it's actually defamatory. I mean, Elizabeth Warren, there was one time when somebody pushed back a little bit on this accusation. It was one very wise one on Joe Rogan. So when she repeated that Tulsi was an Assad toady and Joe Rogan said, well, what do you mean by that? And there was no specific answer. She basically said, I don't know. Everybody knows. I'm not sure now anybody who is pressed on this.

And I have to say, this is not a new tactic. Even Jeff Sessions, when he was nominated for Attorney General, they raised these alarms about him that he had met with Russians, that he had been passing talk to Russian officials, and he didn't remember it. They did the same with Michael Flynn, the FBI, trapped him in a perjury trap. This is the tactic of the Democratic Party to accuse people of being Russian agents. Obviously, they did the same with Trump. That was the primary narrative of his first presidency.

Yeah, and, you know, from there, and the reason, it's so even during the Cold War, you know, when the Soviet Union was considered as Ronald Reagan called them the evil enemy, when all of our foreign policy was based on thwarting the Soviet Union, there was phones all throughout Washington that linked right up to Moscow, including one in the Oval Office that Reagan used all the time. Reagan met with officials, he negotiated arms deals with them, in the middle of the Cold War. So did Nixon. I mean, every American president, JFK did too.

And now we've created this insane, dangerous environment where if you even speak to a Russian official about trying to resolve some of the hotspots or even things that you have in common, you know, Obama talked a lot about the common interests that we have with Russia and they're very opposed to and concerned about Islamic extremism. The United States worked with.

Russia in facilitating the Iran deal. They also work with Russia in picking targets in Syria to bomb. We have a lot that we could have in common too, all for partisan reasons to blame Hillary Clinton's loss on something. We've created this idea that Russia is our existential enemy and anybody who raises questions about it has their loyalties impugned. And it's really a very toxic and unhealthy climate that we've created.

Yeah, I'm very over it. I'm sick of watching this be done to really smart, really well credentialed people who are willing to serve. Not everybody's willing to serve in government. It's not a glamorous job. You don't get the fancy office nine times out of 10. You're a government bureaucrat, basically. And Washington DC is highly unpleasant in many ways. So it's like,

Who would want to leave there? You know, a lot of these people are like, I've got a great life. Anyway, I'm sick of this nonsense. You're right. It's totally defamatory. All right. That leads me to Pete Hetzath, who in the week or so he's been named as our potential next defense secretary has now been identified by the left as an alleged rapist and white supremacist, like

Okay. They're, they got all the bazookas out for these guys and we'll get to Gates and RFKJ. But the bazookas trained on all like Russian intelligent asset is dirty enough. But now with somebody like Pete who served our country, honorably, it was a wounded combat vet with two Purple Hearts, they've got to shift it. And then he went to their institutions, Princeton and Harvard. They've got to shift it from that to

rapist and white supremacist because somehow he must be stopped. So I want to get into it. The white supremacist stuff is because of a tattoo he has on his chest that if I'm not mistaken, he outed this story when he spoke to Sean Ryan. Like he was lamenting to Sean Ryan a couple weeks ago.

that he got tagged as someone who might be a white supremacist because he's got this tattoo on his chest and therefore wasn't allowed to appear at the Joe Biden inauguration, which he thought was absolutely absurd. Right? I think, I think I have my, my sequence. You do. That's correct. That's correct. Yeah. And, and it leads to the, uh, NAACP president going on MSNBC prime time with Chris Hayes last Thursday and saying this,

the Secretary of Defense nominee, Peter Hegg, the Fox News commentator as well because this is someone who we can host.

important distinction. This is someone who, you know, is known to be a white supremacist, known to be an extremist whose platform, whose book is basically about his opposition to the advancement of black officers to the top brass. And the military is actually very important area for black advancement. I would just say that Higgsoth would say that he would deny strenuously he's a white supremacist. He has just wanted to put that in the record.

Okay. By the way, he received two bronze stars for valor, not Purple Hearts, but that's amazing. That's even more amazing. I'll do respect those who have Purple Heart in any event. She's allowed to go out there and that's his gentle pushback. That's his gentle pushback. So he's a white supremacist. What do you make of that line of inquiry?

Well, just I have to say it's so funny how when she said all he is is a, uh, able host Chris Hayes immediately interject and said, just a weekend host meeting like, Oh, if you were really like me, like a daily, that would be serious. These are just weekend hosts. Yeah, we can host our just losers, which I don't know how people who are weekend hosts and MSNBC fault about that. But here's the thing, Megan. They are pretty. This is Chris Hayes's defense on MSNBC. They are terrible.

Yes, and nobody watches them. So maybe Chris is right about that. But the weekend, the prime time hosts don't exactly have a huge audience either, especially him. But anyway, here's the thing. There are serious disagreements that I have had with things that ex-eth has said and done in the past, including his advocacy for what are clear war criminals and Iraq people who just like, for no reason, shot people or killed people and their army found them guilty and then he got trumped apart in them. So there's a lot of things that he has done and said in the past that I disagree with.

Democrats cannot engage on those kinds of merits. Like same with Tulsi. There are things you can question about Tulsi in a foreign policy. That's not how they can, that they have to just do this insane smear campaign where they go to the worst possible things they can think of. This tattoo that he has is a well-known symbol of Christianity, a certain sect of Christianity or viewpoint of Christianity, that has been documented for centuries and they decided to turn it into something that it wasn't, which was at that.

tattoo of white supremacy, which is a different sign in a different tattoo. You think Pete Hesketh would just have his entire chest tattooed with a white supremacist symbol and then walk around shirtless to show it off. It's not that. It's just a Christian tattoo, which maybe some people see as the same thing, but it's not actually the same thing.

But here's the thing, Megan, with all of these nominees, and the ones we're going to talk about, but also the ones we have to all see, and Pete Hexas, which is they cannot comprehend still that Donald Trump won the election. And one of the reasons Donald Trump won the election was because he ran on a platform of arguing that our institutions in Washington have become ossified and corrupted, politicized, and they need to be radically changed, uprooted, and subverted.

And the people he's choosing to lead these agencies are people who have radical critiques of these institutions. If you're a huge fan of these institutions, if you love how the military industrial complex functions, if you love how the intelligence agencies are interfering in our politics, of course, you're not going to want anybody in there who's anathema to the way things are being done. But that isn't

the person who if Kamala Harris had been elected, she would have appointed people they love. People who seem like their quote unquote serious pointees who come out of the ethos of these institutions who want to protect it and just reform it on the margins. That is not what Donald Trump ran on. He ran on a platform that Americans approve overwhelmingly for the second time of radically overhauling these agencies. And so let's say that

Anybody that he chooses who's just like a little bit unexpected or off the beaten path of the kinds of people that usually run these agencies and they're going to for they're going to destroy them by calling them racist or Russian assets and rapists and like is simply anti-democratic. It's to reject what Americans just voted for.

Donald Trump was not shy about this fact. He talked about it all the time. And that's really what's going on here. They're fine with Marco Rubio. They're fine with Elise Stefanik. They're fine with Mike Huckabee. They're fine with John Radcliffe and the CIA. People who they feel like are the kinds of people who usually get these positions. It's the ones who are kind of out of that field who are there to oppose the agencies they're going to lead, who are causing all the upset in Washington. And sorry, but Kamala Harris didn't win. Donald Trump won. And this is what he promised to do.

exactly right. So this Pete Hegsef is part of, I heard our friends over in Volker politics describe this group as the disruptors. And I love that. It's better than the Avengers, which is people. I understand the Avengers thing, but I kind of grow a little uncomfortable with it because I don't like making superheroes out of politicians or any group. Like it's, you know, I like you, Glenn, and more of like,

Eh, they're normal humans. They're going to screw up. Let's not raise the expectations too high for ourselves or for the country. But I like the disruptors and happens to be the name of my friend Nancy Armstrong's movie about folks who have ADHD too. But in any event, they are disruptors. Pete Hegsett 100% falls into that. So does Tulsi. So does RFKJ, absolutely. So does Matt Gaetz. He responded to a tweet over the weekend. Hegsett did by Mike Lee, Senator Mike Lee saying Lee's wrote

I recently spoke with a father of a U.S. Air Force Academy, a cadet. He told me that the Air Force Academy's official forms refer to him, the cadet's father, as the cadet's non-birthing parent, and to his wife, the mother, as the cadet's non-birthing parent, thoughts, and Hegsef retweeted it, writing, not for long.

That's all I need to hear. I don't care about his stupid tattoo. We'll talk about the other controversies right after this. Don't go away. Glenn remains with us. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath.

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My team is telling me there's breaking news, so let's take a look. My name is Kamala Harris, and I wanted to wish my good friend Megan Kelly the happiest of birthdays. Now look, Megan, I know you don't like me very much, right?

But you know, I was thinking now that, you know, your boy is in office. Maybe, you know, you can unburden what has been. Now let the bygones be unburdened. The bygones can become bygones, right? I like that word. Roses are blue. Violets are red. Let's forget about this whole thing and get hammered instead.

Happy birthday, Megan. And I'll listen, if you can, if your people can, you know, call my people and get me a job, I would be forever in your debt. I need some money. Yeah, I'll text you later.

Madam, Vice President, I forgive you for all of your inanity. You're much more likable than I thought. All the wonderful SD Paulty. Thank you so much, SD. Thank you to my team. It's my birthday as you probably gathered, but that that was a special gift. I don't think we should let us do go. I mean, we have to let Kamala go, but I don't think we should say goodbye to SD. She's too, too good. Okay. Glenn Greenwald is back with me now.

I guess it's one of those things what we're going to miss her when she's gone. Glenn, you know, like when she actually leaves exit stage left, we may miss Kamala Harris a little bit. Hmm. I don't know. I would like to find some reason to agree with that. Maybe it's just petty. Maybe it's like a personal thing, but I've actually known a couple of people in my life who have that personality trait where they tell what they think is a joke and nobody thinks it's funny, but they laugh so long with their own joke and insist that you laugh that you kind of almost get trained to smile.

because you know they're not going to move on until you laugh with them. I've never seen a person in public like Amal Harris who laughed so long and so boisterously in her own jokes. I don't know. Maybe it's just petty. Maybe it's like my own personal trauma from the people I knew who did that, but I'm very happy to be without that.

Have you no decency, man? What kind of a thing is that to say? This is one of my many. That was a great impression. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the accent switching as well. I mean, at least when Obama did it, it was like a little bit effective. When Hillary Clinton had that fake Southern accent, she had studied it. Kamala just flips them out with no authenticity to them. It's so cringe worthy. No, I'm going win. I'm going win. You better thank a union member. You're better.

Okay, back to the news. By the way, if you haven't heard our talking points from Friday, you should definitely download that episode on why she lost. Okay, let's get back to Pete Haggseth, because the Washington Post drops this exclusive about an alleged sexual assault, you know, or rape. And they're very excited about this piece against Pete Haggseth. Let me just start with a lead.

The police investigated no charges were ever brought. Pete has denied it. And the woman came back asking for cash and she was married. And I believe is still married at the time she had this sexual encounter with Pete, which now she claims was non-consensual. And he says exactly the opposite, but that's not true. But here are the facts as alleged. So what's happened is

a woman, a friend of the woman went to the Trump transition team, according to Wapo, and presented them with a memo detailing these alleged claims by her friend against Pete. And then Pete's lawyer, and then the memo got leaked to the Washington Post. And now Pete's lawyer has gone on the record with the Washington Post to offer his side of the story. It boils down to the following. They say Glenn that

In 2017, October 7th, 2017, he was asked to go out to Monterey, California and to speak with a group of conservative women and that he did so. And after the fact was having drinks in the bar, they claim he had a couple of women there toward the end of their night of drinking and they allegedly texted his handler, who was part of the conservative women's group.

that he was getting sort of pushy in his request that they go back to his room with him. At the time, the post reports he was between marriages. He's on his third marriage and he was, I think, between number one and number two.

Anyway, the point is he wasn't cheating at this point. Um, they say that this young handler came to the bar to sort of collect him as though he were her charge. I mean, he's 44 now. This was seven years ago. So he was a grown man still. I don't know. Do the math 37. Um, but apparently believed to need an escort back to his room. Anyway, this woman comes back to this woman. You should know who works for the California Federation of Republican women.

also had her husband and children in the hotel in a different room with whom she was staying. Her husband and her children. So they alleged that she then took Pete Hegsett back to his room. There is videotape according to Hegsett's lawyer showing them arm and arm on the way to his room with the woman smiling and Hegsett drunk. Apparently the reports are that he was visibly drunk.

She got him away from these other two women, they left, and then she was allegedly seen on the videotape delivering him to her, to his room. She definitely went into the room with him, and the two agree that a sexual encounter took place. Whether it was consensual, they don't agree. This from the Washington Post. This accuser did not remember anything until she was in Hexett's hotel room and then stumbling to find her hotel room. So she, she blacked out the whole night.

Her memo says her memory of six to nine hours quote was very hazy and that her husband was searching for her. I'll bet. And was relieved when she finally showed up. The following day, the woman returned home and quote had a memory of hazy, a hazy memory of being raped the night before and had a panic attack attack.

She then went to the emergency room, they allege, in this memo of hers, where she received a rape kit examination that was positive for semen. She gave county authorities a statement about what happened. They initiated an investigation. The police did. No charges were filed. And they say that.

She, uh, there was no evidence that contact was non-consensual. According to Pete's lawyer, the medical examination of the woman produced no evidence. This is sexual encounter was non-consensual and a police investigation found no evidence to support charging.

The lawyer says, the woman was the aggressor, not hex theft. I will point out on the subject of whether there are injuries, Gabe Sherman. I know, but Gabe Sherman, for what it's worth, is reporting that he has seen the police report and that it alleges a bruise on her thigh. But that did not make it into the Washington Post, which has a stricter screening process than Gabe Sherman. I don't know whether it's true or it's not.

Uh, that then the cops investigated that they chose not to, uh, pursue it and also this.

According to Hegset's lawyer, once the two were in his hotel room, the woman did not leave. She was the aggressor. And after the encounter, she, quote, expressed concern because she had not gone back to her room where her husband and children were. And that Hegset told the cops she planned to tell her husband she had fallen asleep on the couch in another guest's room, according to a statement.

Sometime after the incident, when the cops said they weren't going to do anything about it, they didn't think they were grounds for charges. The woman and her husband hired a lawyer to quote, ensure he did not get off without punishment. And three years later, in February of 2020, they hired a lawyer, they entered into negotiations with excess lawyer now says Pete felt were blackmail and that he was innocent collateral damage in a lie.

that the complainant was holding on to to keep her marriage intact, but knowing it was the height of the MeToo movement, he paid her a settlement, the amount of which is not included. What do you make of this?

Here's my view on these issues generally. It actually applies to the backgates situation as well, which I presume we're gonna talk about, but just to apply the role generally. If the police investigate an alleged crime and conclude that there's no evidence even to charge the person, let alone capable of convicting them, which of course is the judgment when you decide whether or not you're gonna charge the person on a date, I think the person isn't entitled to a presumption of innocence about whether they committed a crime.

That said, in all these situations, it's kind of impossible to know. It's one person's word against the other. And it is true that sometimes when there's sexual assault or sexual harassment, that there are all kinds of reasons why the woman might not want to yell at at the moment.

But at the same time, when especially when you're dealing with the public figure, like he is, there's also motivations that someone might have or even psychological motivations to come and say that the person

had sector them in a non-consensual way in order to get money, in order to justify to themselves what happened, in order to justify their friends and family what happened. And I think skepticism is required. I mean, and when it all emerges at the most politically opportune time, and this is always my issue with the Brett Kavanaugh allegations from like 40 years earlier than suddenly he's a Supreme Court nominee and Christine Bozzie Ford and others come forward,

is that you have to have skepticism. The person is entitled to the benefit of the doubt. I do not think we should be in a position where we assume accusations to be true, even if there was a payment made, because even false accusations, if brought in a lawsuit, can destroy somebody's reputation. And someone might pay a person to avoid that, even though they did nothing wrong, because they know that even false accusations can ruin them forever. So we'll never know for certain what happened here.

if the woman continues to persist in these allegations. But for me, the presumption of innocence is very important. And when the police go and investigate allegations like happened to Matt Gaetz with the Justice Department or happened here with Pete Hegsoff and decide not even to bring charges because there's no evidence that has to play a significant role in how you assess these things.

I have so many questions about this story. Number one, if she went the next day for a rape kit, they would have done a drug test. Where is it? She seems to be suggesting she was given some sort of a drug. She was hazy for six to nine hours in his hotel room.

Where's the drug test? Where's the result? Because I guarantee you, if she took one of those and it said she had Rahypnal in her system, we would not, we would, this would have been charged. The police would not have walked away from this. So I'm sorry, this sound, this smells, this one smells. Her husband's in the hotel room. She spent nine hours in Pete's hotel room. And then Pete has the excuse. She said she was going to offer her husband.

for why she was out that she fell asleep on the couch of one of the other workers. Like, why would you be telling, discussing that with your rapist, what you're going to tell the husband when you go back to his room? This is like a worst nightmare where you make an incredibly stupid decision and then you're in an all-out panic to try to save your marriage and your relationship with your children.

and you come up with something dramatic and the husband believes you and insists that you go get a rape kit test which you do and insists that you then sue the guy which you do because you've got to follow through on your story.

And by the way, if Pete was just wandering the hall with Rohypnol or some sort of date rape drug in his pocket, they don't even say that he gave her a drink. Where's that allegation? What happened to the other two women with whom he was allegedly flirting at the bar? Those two didn't get the date rape drug. He wasn't able to get them to submit because that's normally where you get the date rape drug at the bar when you're drinking the drink.

So what he, he waited until his handlers swooped in out of nowhere, got her back upstairs. Why did she go into the room with him? I've, I've been handled by many people. Not in that way, but you know what I'm saying? Who get me from A to B and they don't come into the room with you. So the stranger doesn't come into there. Even Abigail Feynon doesn't usually come into the room with me, but we've been together for 17 years. This is all very, very irregular and I want, I want more

I want more information. I want to know more about this young woman and I want to know more about what others saw because even though she's got a witness who says I know her to be of high standards and a woman of, you know, she's got a good reputation that doesn't answer anything.

And I think I can totally understand why Hegseth on air with Fox News would want to pay this woman to go away because this would be extremely professionally embarrassing, which is of course why it's being raised down because they are trying to embarrass him. So I am open-minded to more proof of this woman's got it, but so far this smells too high heaven. A lot of questions on that. Okay, so that's Hegseth. I will say this.

The three marriages, Glenn are not great. I mean, there was a time not so long ago with you would have been done, you know, and the questions of was there overlap? What happened? I don't know if in 2020, 24, that sinks a nominee like Pete. Well, I remember that there's somebody else on their third marriage. His name is Donald Trump. There's definitely some overlap between the first and second lives.

tabloid fodder at the time. And I think we are in a different situation where people understand that politicians like everybody else can have messy personal lives, especially when they're younger, things are in the past. And unless it's criminal, I think the ethos, whether I were right or wrong, but the ethos is, is that it's not really so much our business.

And the Trump's political career, you know, when Reagan ran and was divorced and remarried to marry Jane Wyman and then Nancy, that was considered a question mark. And he actually be elected as just one time divorce, no overlap, whatever. And now we have a track in the day, third marriage. Yeah. And clearly that shows that these more days have changed.

But the thing that really is irritating here is we just went through a whole campaign cycle where the Democrats had a would be first gentleman who allegedly not only banged in Annie and also cheated on his first wife and also may have done something to this woman to cause her to lose the pregnancy or at least she alleged that she blamed her miscarriage on him.

And then slapped another woman and this media didn't care at all. They didn't care about the nanny. They didn't care about the girlfriend who alleges she got smacked in the face. But now they're super interested again in protecting women. I'm sick of this.

bullshit. They put Bill Clinton on at the Democratic National Convention, like he was second Jesus coming. And that guy's been, I'm going to talk about accused of rape, but why don't we bring out Kathleen Willie? Why don't we get Juanita Broderick? Why don't we get Paula Jones back into the mix? All women who they didn't give two shits about.

For someone in my position, it's very frustrating because I am open-minded to all claims. I really am. And I don't say that this woman's claims against Pete smell because I like Pete and because he's a Trump nominee. It's because I see some real problems here for the reasons I just stated, though I remain open-minded. I'm just sick of the left and they're double standards.

I mean, women's groups in the 90s admitted that they gave Bill Clinton not just a pass, but they actively defended him and even maligned his female accusers, of which there were many because they wanted to make sure that Democrats continue to win because that was better for their ideology and for their political agenda.

And they kind of did this little maya culpa that never really turned into anything. Remember, Joe Biden had his own accusers. Doug Emhoff certainly had his and you can say, well, Doug Emhoff wasn't a candidate, but he was certainly featured heavily by the Kamala campaign. And not only wasn't that didn't make a difference, there was no interest in the story. I don't think anybody barely in corporate media who want to combo to win even mentioned it.

And you know, but even Bill Clinton, a lot was known about what Bill Clinton did. Certainly, he was not faithful to his wife to put that very, very, very mildly. But there again, he got reelected. The Democrats did very well in the 1998 midterms when all of this was at his peak. And I think what you see is this transformation of social mores when it comes to politicians about whether we care that much. We know a lot about what JFK did in retrospect. I don't think it affects his reputation that much.

You know, unless it's coming out. I really think the other thing is I don't think Pete Hexett's Meredith Huster should be a deal breaker. And I don't really feel like it's any of our business the way we're, you know, look, he came back from Iraq and Afghanistan. And a lot of those marriages don't last. And a lot of those guys have scars that manifest in personal relationships. So who are we to judge? We don't know what went on in those relationships.

This is a different story. If there were actually credible evidence that he raped somebody, everyone would care. But he wasn't charged. They looked into this. I don't think the California police would have had a love fest with Pete Hegseth thinking, oh, yeah, we're in love. I think they would have been very open-minded to this woman's claims. I'm sure we'll hear more. And they did not charge him. So there's that. To correct one thing I said,

Gabe Sherman first reported the Monterey incident, but the information on the contusions is allegedly from the PIO, the public information officer report from Monterey, and that was first reported by mediaite, and then Washington Post did not repeat it. So that's all we have on the alleged contusion, but in any event, we don't know what it's from.

Okay, let's talk about RFKJ because he's getting a two glen. I mean, he is speaking of the disruptor, right? You got HEGSET disruptor, Tulsi for sure, Elon, not in a cabinet post, but helping disruptor. And now you've got RFKJ, perhaps the ultimate, he might be the ultimate disruptor. And they are so afraid of him. I am not going to lie, I'm enjoying their terror.

I'm enjoying their terror on RFKJ. I yes, he is very unusual. Yes, he has very negative things to say about the FDA. This is why we're hiring him. This is why we love him. This is why he had a groundswell of support behind him, which is what made Trump value his endorsement, which is now what's making Trump give him this position.

But instead, we're getting sound bites like this from former HHS secretary under Obama, Kathleen Sebelius. So this could be very dangerous. I think it's totally disqualifying for anyone who seeks to lead the major health agency in this country and one of the leaders in the world to just unequivocally say there is no safe and effective vaccine.

that in and of itself from the bully pulpit of HHS could end up killing people, could end up harming children. So could we be healthier? You bet. Could we work more collaboratively on preventive care? Absolutely. But eliminating scientists, ignoring the facts, not paying attention to data, and using the agency

to discourage and scare people away from medical breakthroughs I think is really terrifying. Not paying attention to data. That's the problem, Glenn, with RFKJ.

When you are on the break, I happen to see the CNN panel where they were talking about Tulsi Gabbard, all of them opposed, of course. And their argument was, if someone's going to leave the intelligence agencies, they should believe in the intelligence agencies and support what they've done. It's like, no, that is not the Trump agenda. The Trump agenda is that these intelligence agencies are broken, they're corrupt. So of course, you want to put someone in there who sees the same problem, same with the health care system.

During, first of all, RFK Jr. his whole life has been not just a loyal Democrat, but the kind of liberal that people would like Obama strongly considered him making him the head of the EPA because he was an environmental lawyer battling against large corporations and their toxic dumping in our river streams and our water supply.

And it was during COVID when people decided that he was somehow off the reservation or out of the question of decency because he was questioning a lot of the orthodoxies coming from Anthony Fauci and his little horde that turned out to be not just questionable but false.

And the whole liberal establishment, the media, the kind of Western liberal establishment was demanding that we all swallow mindlessly. Everything that Fauci was saying about the health industry and R.F.K. Jr. was one of the very few people out there saying a lot of this seems very questionable. This is the irony, Megan, is that

I've talked to RFK before, I've interviewed him. His primary belief is that the entire healthcare apparatus, the agencies that regulate big pharma, big food, big agriculture, the insurance companies are all in the pocket of these industries, that they're regularly captured by these industries, and they do whatever these big companies want. They approve medicines before they're properly tested or vaccines that will benefit these companies. Bottom line, they allow food companies to put in

all sorts of toxic ingredients that make its production cheaper, but make its negative impact on our health much worse. These were all left-wing ideas for decades, the idea that these industries are captured by big industry. This is RFK's primary view of what is wrong with our health care system to watch Democrats turn around and attack him for that, similar to

how it's some kind of a problem that Tulsi Gabbard questions wars and questions the intelligence agencies also a long time offling cause shows this realignment of the Democratic Party with these big industries. It's why they appeal to affluent voters. It's why they appeal to the ruling class voters and Donald Trump ran against that.

And so this is what you're seeing is they love the people they believe even though the republicans were kind of republican insiders the mark rubios the least about etc. What is really upsetting them are the people who are there to uproot the institutional corruption that everyone sees before their own eyes she ran that agency Catholic civilians did so of course she she thinks that oh it's fundamentally good it doesn't need any fundamental

corrections. Our health is clearly in crisis as a citizenry. The pieties that were given out about COVID, even people banned from questioning them. Many of them turned out to be false. These institutions are rotted from the root.

And a lot of them need to be uprooted. And that is, I'm happy to say what Trump's employees are there to do. And of course, it's going to make the people who are institutionalists extremely upset and even scared. And those are the kinds of people who need to be scared. That's right. They fear the disruptors. And he is chief among them. Lawrence O'Donnell picking up on Kathleen Sebelius, talking about how people will die. Take a listen to him.

The most important thing to know about Robert Kennedy Jr. is that there are probably people dead tonight because of him. Thousands of people who followed his medical advice on vaccines in the middle of a deadly pandemic. At least Matt Gaetz didn't kill anyone.

Got it? He's a killer because he questioned Fauci and the conventional wisdom about vaccines. We've seen this in so many articles since Trump named Bobby Kennedy that he's dangerous and he killed people because he had skepticism about vaccines. Meanwhile, none of these same

so-called journalists or newspapers will acknowledge the myocarditis caused by those vaccines in young men, 15, 16 year old men across the country and beyond leading to death.

leading to heart scarring and doctor after doctor after doctor has looked at this. And honestly, if you have a young boy who had the vaccine, you should have an EKG and potentially an echocardiogram done if he's received the vaccine. I've heard cardiac pediatric cardiologist say this. So and not not cases, not far left. Like why even now they're admitting that this is a known problem with the vaccines.

But it's all our FKJ's fault for bringing up points like this. Well, and also, I mean, the whole regulatory approval process is so wrong. I mean, these drug companies get whatever they want. There's no questioning allowed. And, you know, so many of the COVID policies that we were told had to happen have had huge terrible effects on our children, on the population, school closings,

just all kinds of isolation, forced mask wearing, the idea that the vaccine was going to stop the spread of the virus, which turned out to be a total eye. Do you know how many social and mental health problems there are because of all these prolonged school closings and quarantines and lockdowns that destroyed people's lives, isolated people further?

Exacerbated mental health problems stunted the intellectual and emotional development of children. There were huge harms that came from this COVID religion that nobody was allowed to question and R.K. Jr. was one of the few people doing so. So if R.K. Jr. was going to get in and just say, I'm banning all vaccines and vaccines are now criminal.

That would be cause for concern. Our teacher is not going to do that. One of the things he opposes is not vaccines, but the vaccine mandate. I mean, you were just talking about, you know, young boys who took the vaccine. I was forced. We were forced to vaccinate our young kids because there was no way they could go to school or enter buildings or anything because of vaccine mandates. And we didn't want to. I really regret it. I wish we didn't have to, but we were forced to vaccine mandates are

Maybe in extreme cases justified, but in general, they're horrific because of bodily autonomy. Most of what R.K. Jr. was questioning, most of what he was disputing, he turned out to be right about, and that's what they're really most upset about. Is he questioned their credibility and undermine their religion and their right to issue decrees without being questioned?

I don't think the vast majority of parents have to worry. I think in most cases, they were harmless and that's great. That's good. But in too many cases, there was a risk and depends on your child and his interaction with it. Our pediatrician told us that they're mandating EKGs for all kids now.

all kids who are like school age and playing sports, middle school enough that as a baseline now that I didn't say it's because of COVID, the virus itself or the vaccines, but they're mandating it for all kids. And in my case, we have a family history with my dad, who died at age 45 of a heart attack. So we're actually going to get echoes for our kids too. Just as a, you know, our kids do not get the vaccine. I don't want to

Yeah, I don't want to make people to get worried because I know I feel this way about myself because I took two vaccines. I took two shots and a booster. And I worry like whenever people say like, you're going to die. I'm like, Oh, God, you're really kind of freaking me out. So I don't want to make people feel that way about their kids. But why wouldn't we check it out? Right? Like just check it out. It's our kids. It's an EKG so easy.

Also, Megan, what the problem about this was, is that it was true that for kids under 20, 25, even people under 30, the risk from COVID was infinitesimally small. And one of the ways they tried to scare everybody into getting these vaccines was by

hiding that fact, concealing it, making it seem like it wasn't just old people who were at risk or people with particular immune problems or respiratory illnesses that they had before COVID who were at risk. They tried to make it seem like the fatality and danger of this virus was much higher than it actually was because they needed to justify COVID mandates. And when it came to deciding whether or not we wanted to vaccinate our kids, the main issue was

12-year-old, 15-year-old, 10-year-old boys are not dying from COVID, especially healthy ones. They're just not. And so to put an experimental vaccine into their body, even though I'm sure they're going to be, you know, the arts are, as you said, overwhelmingly safe, that it's overwhelmingly safe, it was just a risk-benefit analysis that we were robbed of the ability to make for our own kids. And I think a lot of people are angry about that. And RFK juniors, one of them.

Yeah. And we've interviewed families who have lost kids in the wake of this and then they've got no acknowledgement. They've gotten no settlement for what it's worth. They can't because they were provided with immunity. But there's no acknowledgement. There's no come to Jesus. There's no ownership and RFKJ would never, never sign off on those kinds of mandates. And now they're talking about Dr. J about a charia potentially to oversee NIH.

Yes, you guys remember him, one of the three co-authors of the Great Barrington Declaration who said, we need focused protection, look after the elderly, but this is nonsense to keep kids out of school and close down society. It's just reason is being restored and we're gonna have to fight it because these people who have investments, actual investments in many cases in the system remaining as is, are going to come up with a lot of scurrilous, terrible allegations about these disruptors.

And those of us on the side of reason are going to have to steal ourselves for ugly battles, but they're worth it. Glenn, I'm going to go, and I'm going to do something on Matt Gaetz later in the show, but your thoughts on Matt Gaetz before I let you go.

Yeah, I mean, Matt Gaetz is another person there. There's no question the Justice Department has been politicized. The big claim about Trump was, oh my God, if he gets into power, he's going to prosecute his political enemies. It's amazing that they could say that with a straight face since that's what they've used the Justice Department to do, not just against Trump, but so many people in his circle. And Matt Gaetz is there to put a stop to it and he is a Trump loyalist. And that's why Trump wants him there. And again, the ideas are not going to pick.

one of these traditionalist, institutionalists like Bill Barr or Jeff Sessions even, you're going to pick somebody who's there to radically overhaul. And I think obviously a lot of people on Capitol Hill, including Republicans dislike Matt Gaetz a lot. But part of the reason they dislike him is because he's taken so many positions contrary to Republican orthodoxy on wars, on

whistleblowers on economics on a whole variety of issues. And you know, unless there is evidence of criminal wrongdoing and the Biden just arrived and investigated and found that there was nothing there and didn't bring charges, I think Trump should be entitled to his choice, especially for that position. I've got to play you SOT 13 before you go. Listen to this. This is CNN's Paula Reed.

I mean, you can't be attorney general, but he's not going to receive a very warm welcome from the career folks there. We've seen people today, our fellow reporters crying, hugging in the hallways. I've gotten sources from text messages from sources, Trump administration, the Biden administration. No one is endorsing this. What's your analysis, Ellie?

They're crying. The reporters. The best endorsement. Reporters tears are the best endorsement from that gate. I think because they're the ones who cheered this corruption on the Justice Department. And the fact that they're crying is all the better reason to support that nomination. That is so true. We need one of those daily wire mugs where they say leftist tears. It should be reporters tears. I'm going to have to have that made. Glenn, a pleasure as always. Always get to see Megan. Thanks.

Okay. Speaking of Matt Gaetz, we have got to talk about what happened over on the New York Times podcast, The Daily, this morning, where they went in depth on Gaetz. And I found this so amusing. They clearly wanted to, yes, explain why Trump chose him and to make sure that you hate him and are afraid of him.

And the reason I found this so interesting is because I've never really paid a lot of attention to Matt Gaetz. I'm going to be honest. I saw that he was somebody who wanted a lot of attention. And in general, I tend to ignore people like that. I don't like feeling that fire. I understood that people I like interacted with him a lot. People like Tucker, Trump obviously loved him. Fine. He wasn't exactly my cup of tea. I didn't have anything against him per se.

Whatever, not like, I'm just trying to tell you, I'm not some Matt Gaetz sycophant.

But the New York Times Daily podcast today has made me a big fan, which I don't think was their intended effect. So I want to walk you through the six stages of Matt Gaetz and the New York Times and see if you may wind up where I am. I've gotten a lot of mail from a lot of you saying, you don't like him and I understand, totally understand why. But just walk through this story with me, okay?

So the Times, with his reporter Robert Draper, who's giving the interview to their part-time host there, it wasn't Michael Bubba at all, it was a woman, he's talking about how typically the Attorney General has been independent

from the White House slash president. And that's been a glorious thing. Now, he doesn't point out that JFK appointed his little brother, RFK, who was only 35 years old, and had never tried a case, had not that much legal experience when he made him attorney general, complete nepotism. And it was only about one thing loyalty. And he wasn't the first to do that, nor the last.

But anyway, this more modern or more recent trend of there'll be sort of this, not a Chinese wall, but more independence, foisted on the DOJ when it comes to dealing with the White House is in exactly that. It's more of a recent trend. And there is a history in this country where it wasn't there, not pointed out by the Daily. In any event, here's the New York Times setting that up in Soundbite 60.

The Attorney General has tended to be an office that operates more or less independently from the President. The Attorney General will often do things that might even offend the President, might even investigate members of the administration. So to pick someone like Matt Gaetz, who is an unflagging loyalist to Donald Trump, would seem to suggest that the DOJ will, under Trump's presidency, become completely co-opted. Good.

Great. We're off to a good start. I mean, he talks about how you sometimes they'll investigate the sitting president. We know that's why he's choosing Matt Gates. That's what's led people like me to say, I don't really care how incendiary he is. He seems like he might actually work there.

The talk, he's like, oh my God, you know, he'd be an unflagging loyalist. He might, the DOJ might become completely co-opted, meaning loyal to the president and not so keen on investigating him. Great. Maybe that would free up his time from bullshit Russia investigations to actually get something done for the American people. So a swing and a miss New York Times. Then they go on to talk about how Gates is an attention lover. Listen here, I saw it 61.

Almost from the beginning of Trump's presidency. Joining us now, Florida Congressman Matt Gates. Republican Congressman Matt Gates. Congressman Matt Gates. Congressman Matt Gates represents the state of Florida. He joins us tonight. Congressman, thanks a lot for coming on. Matt Gates was on every conservative outlet praising everything that Trump did.

I support this travel ban because I think it will enhance the security of Americans. From the Muslim ban. The foundation for Obamacare is crumbling, and that means we might be able to actually start on health care worthy of the great people in this country. To his attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare. I think if you just look at the bias on the Mueller team, these are not people in search of the truth. They are people in search of an impeachment charge.

Great. Once again, you're really selling me. Go on. I didn't actually know some of that because like I say, I haven't paid that much attention to Matt Gaetz, but talking about how he prays Trump universally. What was happening during the four years of Trump's presidency? Remind me again in the media.

Was it, was it usual to find somebody out there who would defend Trump regularly and religiously in the case of Matt Gaetz? I don't remember that. No, I think the vast, vast majority of the Trump coverage was extremely negative and extremely wrong, extremely wrong and openly dishonest. So good for Matt Gaetz for being one of the sole people to go out there and continue swinging on behalf of the former president. Well,

He was then the current president and then they continued it during the Biden presidency once he decided he would run again. Um, he defended the travel ban. Good. He was right on that. He defended the problems that the Republicans were pointing out on Obamacare when they were pushing to repeal and replace. Great. They wound up seating that fight, which many of us had a problem with because Obamacare was uniquely unpopular, but I have no problem with the guy defending the criticism of it and Mueller calling Mueller dishonest and saying the whole investigation with

Perfect. You were right. There was nothing there. It was a waste of taxpayer funds and it completely distracted the sitting president from the job he'd been elected to do. More stop, Matt Gaetz was right on. I'm being reeled in. Okay. Then the daily brings up one of Matt Gaetz's more infamous moments where on Capitol Hill, they were going to have some meeting in a closed door basement room relating to the first impeachment of Donald Trump.

Don't forget, that was not the Russia investigation. The Russia, Russia, Russia shit was all about Robert Mueller and whether he was a Russian asset and all the lies about the server at Trump Tower in Don Jr. All lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. Did not pan out at all. Then there was a first impeachment saying he had had some inappropriate conversation with Zelensky, the president of Ukraine, about whether we'd give them aid if they didn't investigate the Bidens and their crime family.

So there were some secret closed-door meeting with, I think, the intelligence committees in Capitol Hill in the basement. And Matt Gaetz, trying to draw attention to what they were doing, organized like a storming of the room in which those guys were seated.

and did not care whether there were Democrats or Republicans in there. And this is not really something that had been done before, but he was trying to create a spectacle to create good press or at least controversial press, which Trump likes around this issue. So in here, you're going to hear them talk about the setup to this and you're going to hear clips of Matt Gaetz outside of said room of Congress people looking into that Ukrainian phone call. Listen,

He said, OK, we're going in. And they barged into the facility, effectively bringing the proceedings to a halt. And the idea that any closed hearing would be disrupted by anybody was

generally unheard of, but for an actual legislator, an actual member of Congress to storm in and start making accusations that this was some sort of deep state undertaking where they were hatching up, damning testimony from scratch, was without precedent. And it showed just how far he was willing to go for Trump, it sounds like. Yeah, that's right.

Great. He's a fighter who understands that Trump is the most controversial person in politics and that BS attacks will and have been thrown at him over and over and over. And unless you are the squeaky wheel, you will be ignored in trying to fight on his behalf.

That was another thing, that first impeachment over that phone call where Trump was saying, I think the Bidens are corrupt and I insist that you look into it. That also helped ruin Trump's first term and it was true. We've now seen the documents about the Hunter Biden relationship with Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company. He was getting 50 grand a month for doing absolutely nothing. He was trying to get his dad on the phone. The big guy was allegedly getting 10%.

All the stuff that the State Department had a policy which was shifted after pressure was put on them by Hunter Biden when it can't like all of this has been documented during the last year or so as we've gotten closer to the truth on what Hunter was doing with the help of his dad. Okay. That's what Trump was on to.

And that was Matt Gates going in there saying, you people are dishonest. This is absurd. And he's allowed to call for an investigation of corruption in a company to whom we're giving billions of dollars. So I'm still on team Gates. I see it all with such clear eyes as we go through it. And again, some of this is not new to me, but I hadn't really paid that close of attention because, you know, like I said, I generally don't give people attention when they're trying to get it from me. Okay. Here's the next one.

post J six. They're talking about how Trump gates never banned in Trump. And not only that, but saw very early on that one of the villains in the aftermath was a woman named Liz Cheney. Listen to this. He went out to Wyoming and listen.

Gates was one of the very first people to decry them House Republican conference chairwoman Liz Cheney calling for Trump's impeachment. And in fact, within a couple of weeks after Trump left office on January the 20th. I love Wyoming! There's Matt Gates on the steps of the capital of Wyoming.

I'll confess to you, this is my first time in Wyoming. I've been here for about an hour, and I feel like I already know the place a lot better than you are misguided representative Liz Cheney. Leading a protest against the Congresswoman representing the state of Wyoming, Liz Cheney, and saying that she's the one who needs to be pushed out. Okay. So again,

he was exactly right. She was pushed out. She had something like 30% support remaining for her in Wyoming. And that's why she lost her job. And then Kamala Harris didn't learn from the Matt Gaetz lesson. What he was saying was true. Don't dismiss it just because you don't like him and put her all over the campaign trail, which even Democrats are now admitting was a mistake because literally nobody likes Liz Cheney. I mean,

No one likes her. Who's her constituency? Her newfound friends on the left have abandoned her and hate her now.

The old right doesn't like her because it's Trump's party. And she's been totally blind about Trump and actually ran a very dishonest January 6th hearing. So she lost what few Republican fans she had that aren't never Trumpers. Okay. So Gates was right about her and what his political instincts on that were spot on. Okay. The other big controversy with Matt Gates, other than the fact that most people hate him because of

Behavior like this is that he was accused. He was accused of allegedly having sex with a 17 year old and attending some party where drugs may have been present as well and possibly even transporting that 17 year old over state lines. He denies all of that. He went on Tucker Carlson when these allegations first broke.

And Tucker asked him about the alleged sex with this 17 year old girl. Listen.

So they're saying there is a 17 year old girl who you had a relationship with. Is that true? And who are they, who is this girl? What are they talking about the New York Times? The person doesn't exist. I have not had a relationship with a 17 year old. That is totally false. The allegation as I read it in the New York Times is that I've traveled with some 17 year old in some relationship that is false and records will bear that out to be false. Now I'm going to be honest, that wasn't a great denial.

I don't have a relationship with a 17. Well, that's not what the accusation is. It's that you had sex with her. Most people wouldn't consider a one-time sex act with a woman, a relationship. So I wish that he had been asked that specifically.

I'd love, we watched the whole thing just to see if he had denied that specific piece of it and we did not see that. Um, so I don't know if that word relationship is doing a lot of work, work in that denial or what, but he's denied the charge that he had sex in other settings, that he had sex with 17 year old girl and that, um, he trafficked her by, by moving her across state lines. The department of justice investigated this and did not bring charges.

They did not bring charges. Same as the Pete Hexett thing. The local cops in Monterey, California investigated this and did not bring charges. They did not bring charges. So back to Matt Gaetz.

He was understandably upset when this story first broke. It did result even after DOJ dropped it in a house investigation, the report of which was about to drop last Friday. Matt Gates resigned from Congress on Wednesday once Trump named him as the potential next day G, which has the effect of rendering that house report on him unnecessary. I'm sure someone will leak it, but right now it's not scheduled technically to come out. So Matt Gates denies it, but the house

still has to deal with him because he's a congressman. And what happens over in the house does his buddy, Kevin McCarthy, who was then the speaker, telegraph to the world, this is a partisan witch hunt or just told you fire on Matt Gaetz, you know, there'll be a process. No, he doesn't because you might know this other piece of Matt Gaetz and not like it.

He basically made Kevin McCarthy's life hell. He made his election as speaker like next to impossible. He then got like a codicile on the election saying, if anybody objects to you, even one person, we can have another vote to see if your house did. And this would wind up ruining Kevin McCarthy's speakership pretty soon into his tenure. But Kevin McCarthy was already in a position of power when the whole Matt Gaetz

Allegations broke and here is what happened. Listen to this next shot from the Daily 64.

word surface that there was an investigation into Gates's behavior by the federal government. Far from Kevin McCarthy saying I'm sure that these are unwarranted investigations. He just said, those are serious implications. If it comes out to be true, yes, we would remove them if that was the case. But right now, as Matt Gates says, it is not true and we don't have any information. So let's get all the information.

I don't really have any comment. We'll just simply have to see what the federal government got to do. It was as lukewarm, a kind of statement of support, as could be imagined, and Gates filed that one away. I really remember about that whole episode between Gates and McCarthy was just the way that Gates went about it. He withheld his vote for McCarthy over the speakership in this very ostentatious way. It's like he was humiliating him almost.

Like, it was this incredible act of dominance, like this power move against him. That's right. And it was a total Trump move. And it was the kind of thing that Trump would remember as this was a guy who's got Cajones. This is a guy who will stand up to everyone.

There it is. There it is. So to his credit, the New York Times reporter did get that piece of it. And all this strain that we've been discussing, the fighter strain in Matt Gaetz, the shit stirring strain in Matt Gaetz, the, I don't give a shit what people are writing about me as so long as they're writing about me, strain in Matt Gaetz, all of that's attractive to Trump. And now it's becoming much, much more clear. You know, the loyalty to Trump, the fact that he won't, he won't be somebody who's investigating the president.

at the drop of a hat for the first impeachment or the Russia, Russia, Russia, hoax, all of that you can see makes Gates in many ways an ideal choice. And I realize he's not old school. He's not Andy McCarthy who, you know, I would love him.

But he's got other gifts, which are very relevant in today's day and age. Anybody who's going to be running that group in the day and age of Trump is going to have to be a street fighter. I'm sorry, but they are. It's it's a much more of a political position than it is a legal one. So all of it's coming together, right? And then here's this final bit.

where she asks this reporter, again, Robert Draper, if she thinks if this is basically why Trump's doing it, is he trying to do a solid like to pay Gates back?

I don't think that he's doing it to do a solid for Gates or to own Gates. I think that Gates' loyalty to Trump is not what's at issue here. That's always been unquestioned. It's instead an external signal that Trump is sending.

that he will select exactly who he wants to select. He knows how audacious a choice this is, and he doesn't care. And secondly, for this particular position for the Department of Justice, to have at the top of it a Matt Gaetz sends a signal that, yes, I do mean good on what I said during the campaign.

that I, Donald Trump, will be your, his voters, retribution, that I will use the Department of Justice in exactly the way that you would imagine it would be used if Matt Gaetz were at the top of it. It will be used as a weapon. It will be used as the spear point.

to ward off any kind of investigations into the President by the FBI or by the opposition, and that it will be used as a means of attack against Trump's opponents.

Great. That too is meant to scare us. It doesn't. I don't believe he's going to weaponize the DOJ to use it against his opponents. I believe that's what was done to him though as we discussed with Alan Dershowitz and that now famous clip that went around where I said we need Steve Bannon. I'm not totally opposed to it. I'm going to be honest. Who would cry a tear of Adam Schiff actually got some some sort of

hassle thrown his way by the DOJ assuming. I mean, I'm sure he's done something seriously. I just I still feel like you did it to him. You deserve it. I know it's controversial. I just feel like they won't learn. They'll do it again unless they actually have some skin in the game. And I'm sure one of those people has committed some sort of a crime that we can find. I know it's controversial. I'm still angry. There's no de weaponizing the DOJ unless they learn.

unless they learn it hurts. It hurts when you do that. You don't get to just do it with impunity. Yes, they suffered an electoral loss. I don't in any event. I don't actually think Trump will do it.

but I do like the first piece of it, that there'll be somebody at the top heading off these investigations by the FBI. Good. Thank God. And if that guy is Matt Gaetz, then fine, I'm fine with it. He's not my first choice. I see why he was Trump's. I don't know that he can get confirmed, but a spare me the hand ringing over this guy, right? We've had hard partisans under the last two Democrat presidents.

Merrick Garland, Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch. Remember her striking a deal on the tarmac with Bill Clinton over Hillary? I mean, like spare me because it's not been a truly independent office for a long time. That Matt Gates does it with brass knuckles instead of lily white pristine ones. I don't care. I don't really care.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming to it from. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Send them to me, Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at Megan and Kelly.com. Let's be honest, the world is not getting any simpler. Whether it's a natural disaster, a supply chain issue, or just a nasty virus, things happen that we simply cannot control. But what we can control is how prepared we are.

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But let's get to a topic everyone is talking about conspiracy theories. For years, Democrats have acted as if Republicans walk around with the tin foil hats on spewing out falsehood after falsehood. You've heard the condescending phrases like science is real and the insistence that most conservatives believe in the crazy claims associated with QAnon and obscure group most people know nothing about.

But we are about to speak with someone who says liberals have gotten it all wrong, that it is the Democrats who have run wild with conspiracy theories of their own, especially as of late. He calls it blue anon. And unlike fringe QAnon believers, it's mainstream Democrats who are pushing these unhinged views. Join me now, David Harsani. He's a senior writer for The Washington Exam.

I'm so glad you wrote this new book. It's called The Rise of Blue Anon, how the Democrats became a party of conspiracy theorists, and it hits stores tomorrow. This needed to be written. I feel like I am bumping into these people everywhere. And while I'll just kick it off where we left off with Glenn Greenwald, one of them is everyone's a Russian asset, Tulsi in particular, but everyone who Trump likes.

Yeah, I think the important thing to remember is that there are conspiracy theories since history began, everyone and every faction has them. But the difference with the left is that they take them, they launder them through media, they polish them up, they bring in so-called experts who were supposed to trust them, we used to trust to tell us it's true.

it proliferates into all kinds of agencies and then, you know, is calibrated for plausibility. And then you have, you know, they're much more effective for the Russia collusion thing. I mean, envelop the presidency of Donald Trump for three and a half years. He couldn't, he could barely do anything because that's all everyone was talking about. And after it was debunked, what happened? There was no reckoning. No one lost their job. You know, no one, no one calls Rachel Maddow a conspiracy theory. I mean,

on the left or in mainstream media. So that's the most important thing to remember is that it's more dangerous because it's polished up and produced.

It's everywhere. Well, speaking of MSNBC, though it wasn't just MSNBC, the second big one that we hear from them all the time these days is that Trump didn't really get shot. That Trump, like that whole thing was somehow a figment of our imagination or like an elaborate dance. They failed to explain how Corey Compertory was killed. Like in this weird world in which it was all acting

Is he, is he not a victim? Like, I don't understand, but that's, I'm telling you, as somebody who spent 17 years on the Upper West Side, and I have tons of people I know back there still, and this one's come back to me repeatedly. And here's just a sampling of where we've heard it on TV right after it happened.

We still don't know for sure whether Donald Trump was hit by a bullet, whether he was hit by glass fragments, whether he was hit by shrapnel. We don't have those details. We actually have no details from his physician. We know almost nothing.

What is the extent and nature of the damage to his ear? Was it caused by a bullet as opposed to some reports from those on the scene, other reporters, saying that it was actually shards of glass from the teleprompter itself, not the bullet? Five days of no confirmation that the injury to Trump's ear in the assassination attempt was actually from a bullet we have to now assume.

that they're lying about something that happened to Trump on Saturday.

And these, including Michael Steele in particular, went even further than that in suggesting it was BS. It's been three days going on four since this horrific event occurred. A person lost their life to have been severely injured. And yet we've not received a medical report from the hospital, nor have we received a medical report from the campaign, or from the Trump Organization about the extent of the damage to his ear. If he was shot by a high caliber bullet,

There should probably be very little ear there. And so we'd like to know that. Is there cosmetic surgery involved? What is the prognosis for recovery? What are their stitches? What is the extent and nature of the damage to a zer?

It's quite the lineup of it. You just showed me. Yeah, I mean, Joy Reed is not a serious person. And, you know, she went on. I watched because of Schadenfreude. I watched, I turned to MSNBC when Donald Trump won the election. And, you know, they were still going on, especially her going on about how Trump was Hitler, how people vote for him are fascists. I mean, it's not just conspiracy theories. It's this paranoid style of politics where

where you don't disagree with people anymore, you accuse them of sedition, you accuse them of being bought, you accuse them of wanting to make handmade its tail a reality. So when you're when you're just over the top that way, and I think there are cynical people who spread those lies, and then there are credulous, you know, voters who believe them, you don't have to debate anymore, you can just treat your enemy as a fifth columnist, you know, and sometimes people will take it into their own hands and try to kill the

you know, a Republican or go down to Alexandria and try to wipe out a, you know, a baseball field field of, build a congressmen. But I mean, I don't want to chill speech or say what you want, but that is what happens if you create this idea that your enemy wants to strip you of agency, wants to destroy your life. I'll give you another quick example.

The idea of the suppression of the vote that there's this insidious plan to strip black people of the ability to vote, strip them of agency, strip them of their political say. It's easier to vote today than it's ever been in the history of earth. I mean, you can they'll mail you a ballot in any language you want and you can mail it back. So the idea, you know, these are just undercurrents that are paranoia, maybe not conspiracy theories, but very, I think, you know, pernicious.

So what does it mean now that those conspiracy theories do get, you know, I don't know if the word is laundered or just simply presented as possibly legit all over the mainstream news as opposed to in these deep internet chat rooms where you'd have to go to find the QAnon stuff?

Yeah, I mean, just because they're on these big networks, it gives them credibility. Give you a quick example. There was a poll 2018, I think, 50 something percent, I think 58 it was, of Democrats believe that Putin had actually changed ballots, had got into machines, changed the results of the election. Not that he set some Facebook ads up, but that he changed it. Or 2006,

polls show that over 50% of Democrats believe that George W. Bush knew about 9-11 before it happened for personal gain. So typically the media ignores that there is this kind of conspiracy theory, you know, very popular on the left, but it is just as popular on the left as it is on the right, as I said.

The, um, since the election, we've gotten, I would say a higher amount than normal, uh, for them, they definitely think Trump, Trump cheated. That was trending all over Twitter after his victory that somehow he cheated. Don't know how. And then there's some BS about Elon Musk's star link somehow interfering with the, I'm trying to figure it out.

that somehow he used Starlink, his satellite internet service to add more Trump votes to digital counting machines. Now, when this kind of stuff was suggested, granted it was by Trump's lawyer, so it's at a higher level. But when it was suggested after 2020, it was a nonstop story, these crazy ass claims all over the internet. This one, I haven't heard it debunked by all those same people.

Well, it's two things. Yeah, you'll notice this kind of nut picking. You know, the media will find like three people online who say something insane and blow it into this, you know, big story like QAnon all the time. But it is funny. If you mentioned, you know, you mentioned election denialism, which is kind of a ridiculous term to begin with. We're in a free country. We're allowed to challenge legally the results of an election and we're going to have to question whatever we want.

But Democrats have been participating in that forever. And if you ask anyone who won 2,000, they'll tell you it's Al Gore. They won't, they'll say it was stolen from him. If you go to people forget now, but in 2004, every major Democrat brought up Ohio and the dialled machines and, you know, what had gone on there. And obviously in 2016, they never accepted the legitimacy of Donald Trump as president. I think it's a little more difficult this time around because he won in a very convincing way, not just in pure numbers, but in the way that

He won all these ethnic groups and everything like that. So it's just a little more difficult for them to come up with something. Also, obviously, no one listens to them anymore. No one trusted them on the whole Trump is Hitler thing, that narrative. So even if they came up with something now, I'm not sure anyone would believe them, which isn't a great thing because you want a media that can keep our politicians and people in power in check. But if no one believes them, that's a big problem.

I mean, I think we're just going back to the olden days when it's just hard partisans. There's no appetite for these, the Walter Cronkites of the world anymore. There's some appetite, but it's small, it's small. I wanted to say, okay, first of all, the book again is called The Rise of Blue Anon by David Harsani, how the Democrats became a party of conspiracy theorists released tomorrow. But can we spend a minute on what's happening in Pennsylvania? Because it seems to me the same mindset of the people who believe

Trump staged his own assassination and that somehow he and Elon cheated with Starlink are somehow running the Pennsylvania ballot count because what's happening right now in Pennsylvania is absolutely insane. They're at they're literally trying to cheat right now to get that Senate seat that went to Dave McCormick into the hands of Bob Casey, the Democrat who lost. They're they're right now trying to do that.

McCormick holds a 26,000 vote lead over Bob Casey. Casey refused to concede. It was close enough that an automatic recount has been triggered. That's all fine. But there's a serious dispute over and now it's been settled, which votes should be counted. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that mail-in ballots that lack formally required signatures or dates should not be included in the election results.

However, there is a woman in Bucks County, which is a swing district. She's commissioner Diane Ellis Marseglia, or maybe it's Marcy and yeah, she's obviously Democrat who said that she refuses to comply.

that she is going to count the ballots without the proper signatures and dates on them, saying, quote, people violate laws any time they want. So for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention. There's nothing more important than counting votes completely. And then she starts with, I think we all know precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country.

So Diana is pissed off, David, and she's decided she's going to count the illegal votes, whether the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania wants it or not.

I feel like it's a microcosm of where we're headed with the left. And I don't want to sound dramatic here. But think about how many times they simply would ignore the Constitution to do the right thing, to save democracy, to forgive student loans. We must pack the court. We must abuse executive power.

you know, we must smear justices, you know, because they're ruling against us. That woman is just an authoritarian. She needs to be removed. I mean, she, you know, counting votes is important. It's not the most important thing, especially when they're not real votes. And this reminds me also of why a lot of times, especially in 2020, I have to say during COVID,

It's not crazy for people to wonder if the votes are being counted, right? When you're just mailing out a billion ballots to people, when you're taking forever to count, when the court is saying, yeah, sure, you can count ballots that come in after a postmarked after election day. I mean, there were so many loosened

standards that it would be almost crazy not to question the election. Now, maybe they're wrong. Maybe they're not. But if you have good election integrity, if you run an election on one day and count it that day, I think you're going to see a lot less conspiracy theories about elections.

Yeah. Well, it's so crazy because, you know, when, when the Republicans lost in 2020, they, of course, were called conspiracy theorists for saying this doesn't smell right. How did he get 10 million more votes? And you know, you see the numbers fall back down for Kamala. This, this time around 7.5 million fewer than Biden got, but no one's running in to stop a Democratic Bucks County commissioner, Diane Ellis, Marseglia. So she must be stopped.

because this is blatantly illegal. And Josh Shapiro ignores this problem at his own peril because he's reportedly sees himself on the short list for next time around. I think Pennsylvanians want a fair count of their votes.

David, this is a great idea. I love that you wrote this. Again, it's called The Rise of Blue Annan, how the Democrats became a party of conspiracy theorists. It's out tomorrow. It's spelled David's last name, H-A-R-S-A-N-Y-I. I also listened to you over on the Federalist with Molly Hemiway. Enjoy your work over there. Thanks for coming on. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.

Okay, so we are back tomorrow, and we're gonna have Mark Halperin and some of the gang from Two Way join us. We'll see what they have to say about the all-out attack on all of Trump's cabinet picks and what Mark said about PECSeth that's getting a lot of attention. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Meghan and Kelly Show, no BS, no agenda, and no fear.