Mel Robbins: Your Life-Changing “LET THEM!” Tool for the New Year

Welcome to 2025, Pod Squad. We are kicking this year off by talking about an idea, a strategy, a skill that I think has probably brought me the most piece over the last decade, which is learning how to control what I can control and learning to let go of controlling what I can't control.

And we have a teacher here who has a new book and a theory of learning this in a quick way, which I find stunning because I like to learn things in slow, torturous ways and always will. But we have someone here who can help you learn it quicker. And for that, we are grateful.

Today, we have with us Mel Robbins, who is a New York Times best-selling author and world-renowned expert on mindset, motivation and behavior change. Mel's impact is truly global as the host of the Mel Robbins podcast, the Webby and Signal Award-winning number one education podcast. She was named one of Forbes 50 over 50. We love the 50s over 50 and serves on the board of the directors of Amplify Publishing. Her new book is called The Let Them Theory. It is out now. Let's go.

Let's fucking go. Let's fucking go. All right. Hi. Mel, how are you? I want you to imagine that you're on an airplane and it is going hundreds of miles an hour through the air and you're sitting in the seat, enjoying a cup of coffee.

You know, have you ever heard that saying that your life changes overnight, but it takes 15 years to get to that night? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm in that night right now. Okay. And when you are at a moment in your life, whether it's something that is very positive or something that is very hard, the ability to meet the moment

and be present for it is a skill. And I have not been present for a lot of my life. And I am so excited to be talking to you because I feel that we are being called forward in this moment when life is very challenging and things are very overwhelming.

There's only one thing to do. It's to remember who you are, that you are a supernova, that you are a force of light and good. And whenever the world feels dark, your only job is to glow. And I know that as things in my life feel like they're accelerating and I've been building toward kind of what's happening right now in my career and my life for the last 15 years, I don't want to miss it.

And I want to stand in the moment and sit in the seat as the plane is flying a million miles an hour. And I feel like that's the same skill that you need if you're supporting somebody who's struggling in your life.

or if you yourself are going through a hard time. And so I guess how I'm doing is I'm feeling like I'm having a panic attack as we're going 55,000 miles an hour right now. And at the same time, I'm working very hard to just keep my feet on the ground and focus on being a light and glowing in the dark. That's how I'm doing. So most people just say fine.

We met like on a scale of one to 10. Well, okay, so one to 10, I would say I'm definitely a 10 because I feel present and I'm very proud of who I have worked very hard to be.

And all three of our children are okay today. There's nobody having a breakdown or that's calling correct. That could change momentarily. Right. So, you know, I got to sit in the seat at just moving 500 miles an hour and just be present and know that no matter what happens, I'm going to be able to figure out how to meet the moment.

How are you? Where are you? I feel lit up a little bit today too. Oh, awesome. I'm wondering if the part of you that has found a way to sit on a plane and still be just drinking your coffee, that you have gotten there similar to the way that I have gotten there because you're here today to talk about the let them theory.

What you need to know contextually about the pod squad and about me is that I, two years ago was diagnosed with anorexia. I've been dealing with an eating disorder my entire life, blah, blah, blah. All of that comes down to control. Okay. So my entire latest healing journey, which the pod squad has been, I have not asked their permission.

I have not asked if they wanted to be, but they have been on the ride with me, okay? And much of it has been about, I am a proud alanana. I was in an alanana meeting right before meeting with you. I think that finding a way to control what I can control and let go of what I cannot control is the single most important

I don't know if it's a skill. I don't know if it's a vibe. I don't know what it is. It's a skill. It's a skill. It's a mindset. It's a habit. It's a practice. It's a completely different approach to life that will save you and bring you instant peace and power. That's what it is.

Yeah, for me, it's a nebulous piece. I can grasp it sometimes and cannot grasp it at other times. I'm going to tell you why, because the idea of control and the idea of letting go is intellectual and conceptual. It's something you think about. It's something that you want. I've always been the kind of person that's wanted to let it go. I didn't know how the fuck to do it. Because every time somebody says you got to just let it go, it feels like I'm defeated. It feels like I've lost.

And so I've never been able to be stoic or let it go. Like you, I'm very controlling. I've struggled with anxiety. I have engaged in lots of self-destructive and toxic behavior, largely because I didn't know the underlying issues that I was dealing with, just like everybody else.

And we all have things from our past and traumatic experiences that are informing how we show up in the world today. I didn't know any of that. I didn't know I had dyslexia, ADHD. And the thing about letting go is that it's something that seems like a good idea, but I never knew how to do it.

And I'm also competitive and controlling. And so why would I wanna let it go, right? The difference with let them and let me and the let them theory is that it's a tool. See, I think concepts and ideas and intellectual things are very hard to apply. What I love about this theory and how it's changed my life and why I think it's gonna really be an important tool

for you to apply like in a moment. Everything that you are now focused on in terms of I need to really focus on what I can control and I need to detach from anything that I can't control.

Because anytime you focus on worry about or poor time and energy into something that is beyond your control, every psychologist will tell you it just creates more stress, anxiety and tension for you.

And that's why the need to control backfires. And it's why we turn it against ourselves and against the people that we love. And so I have been transformed by discovering the let them theory and learning to say let them anytime some other person's pissing me off or annoying me or I'm feeling scared or I feel anxiety come up. You know, it could be something as dumb as like, I get worked up, I used to get worked up, I should say, if you go to the grocery store,

And they've only got two cashiers working. And everybody's backed up. And there's five abys like shaking her head. Everybody's in line. And you're thinking,

Okay, why aren't there more people here? And you start to then look around and now all of a sudden you suddenly have more authority and experience in your own mind about how a grocery store should run. Totally. Why aren't they doing an announcement to call somebody up and can't they see you here at the line? Right? Plus mail, there's always somebody with 12 items in the 10 item checkout. I'm about to make a personal arrest. Yes, exactly. And so

Here's the thing. What do we do? You feel the tension rise because you're not in control. We automatically grab our phone or you know how we all do that thing. We turn to the person next to us and roll our eyes and like, can you believe this? Yes. Right? Yes. But here's an alternative. Let them let them let them run the grocery store in a way that makes no sense. Let them put somebody in training.

at the cash register when there's 18 people standing there on a holiday weekend, let them. Because the alternative is allowing the outside world to stress you out and drain your most precious resources, which are time and energy. Your entire life is determined and your experience of life is determined by where you pour your time and energy. And what you'll discover now that you have a tool in saying, let them and then saying, let me,

What you'll discover is that you give all your time and energy to things that are beneath you. You give your time and energy to things that are a waste of your time and energy. And in doing so, you're disrespecting yourself. In doing so, you're handing your power to other people's opinions to stupid things like how a grocery store is being staffed or run.

you're allowing the outside world to drain your energy, which is why we're so exhausted. Like, if you're tired, if you're stressed out, if you're just not as happy as you'd like to be, the problem isn't you. I got good news. The problem isn't you. The problem is you give power to other people and to things you can't control.

And using this simple tool that we're going to unpack today in detail, I'm going to teach you in an instant how to detach from things you can't control and then redirect all of your energy and time back to what is always within your control. There are three things that are always within your control. What you think next, what you do or don't do and how you process your emotions in the moment. That's the cards you have to play in life. That's it. Okay. Save them again.

Yep, so there are three things that are always within your control. Number one, what you think. Like what you think, let's just use this really generic and relatable example of standing in the line at the grocery store. As you feel the stress rising up, there's your cue that you're starting to lose control because the stress response is signaling that you feel a little out of control right now. So you say, let them.

That's step one because now i've recognized okay i'm allowing the outside world or some other person to impact me so i'm not let them. And what i love about saying let them is it's like you're allowing something to happen without allowing it. It's like i see this and i see what's happening and i see that it's impacting me and i know that this isn't worth my time so i must say let them.

I know that trying to control my mom's passive, aggressive, whatever, not worth my time, I'm gonna letter. And then I'm gonna say the second step, which is let me. Let me decide whether or not I'm gonna respond. Let me decide what am I gonna think next? That's number one. So there are three things you always control. What you think, what you do or don't do, and how you process your emotion.

Those are the cards you always have to play in life. Always. That's where your power is because you get to choose. I get to choose as I'm standing in the grocery store line, whether I burn myself up and then spend the next 15 minutes scrolling on social media, which is only going to stress me out more, make me buy something that I don't need, or whether I take a breath and I just practice being present or whether I make a call and I

call one of my kids, or I text a friend that I haven't talked to in a while, or I turn to the person next to me. And I just ask them how their day is going. I get to choose. I get to choose whether or not it impacts me. I can also lead the store, by the way, if I don't have time. There are lots of things in your control if you

Focus, let me focus my energy and time on what's actually in my control. And the one thing that is never in your control is what another human being thinks, says, does or feels.

So I want to stay on this analogy in this example, because this happens to me a lot. And it's making me higgle because my action step, I notice it. I'm like, Oh, this is so annoying. I really appreciate efficiency and when things are not run efficiently, drives me bonkers. So a lot of times I'll leave my grocery cart and I'll just go and start bagging groceries.

For the people, just so we can get this moving. Let everybody do it. Let everybody do it. Okay. Yeah, let her.

Okay, does that count as not letting them? That counts if what is going to make Abby feel better is her helping letter. 100%. And notice Glennon kind of rolled her eyes because it's embarrassing to Glennon and she doesn't think Abby should do that. But this is the thing about the let them theory. The more you let people be who they are, the better your relationships get. So true. It's actually an act of love to allow and let Abby be Abby.

But isn't that a slippery slope with the makes me feel better because I'll tell you what also makes me feel better like talking shit. There's a very low there's a feel better thing that could be a feel better not very good for you thing because sometimes like when I'm so anxious I just start cruising cruising get things done get things done.

But that's the tires in the mud, right? That's that I'm trying to expend my energy so I don't have to keep it inside of me. So how do you know the bagging? I think you're asking two different questions. Okay. So one of the questions is about what Abby does for Abby. Mm hmm. Your question is about what you do for you. And is there a slippery slope? And the bottom line is, and this is a really hard thing to grasp, but once you do, you'll

be liberated. You can never change another human being. If you're the kind of person who lets your anxiety spin, I can't do anything to change that in you. Adults only change when they feel like changing.

And until you get to a point in your life where the anxiety spiral is no longer achieving the result that you want, that it's more painful to stay in the anxiety than it is to do the work to change, you'll never change.

And so there's two things about the Let them Theory. One is how you use it for yourself, right? And you remove the obstacles that you put in your way that rob you of happiness, power and peace.

And so in the example of the grocery store, allowing the way a grocery store is running to stress you out is a way that you are putting an obstacle in your way because you're allowing outside forces to impact your energy, your mental health, and the stress response in your body. But you're an adult. You get to choose whether or not you live your life that way.

And so when you say, let them, you're just recognizing that there's a situation or a person that's impacting you negatively. And you're recognizing it and you're not going to allow it because you value your mental health and you value your state of common peace. And it's like the perfect boundary.

because it stops you from this kind of knee jerk thing that we have of either trying to fix people or control people or just kind of being a doormat where you feel powerless around somebody else. Then there's the second part, which is let me, let me choose how I'm going to respond to this.

And the thing about the let me part is that's where you start to become more self-aware. Like part of my problem for a long time in my life is I knew that there were patterns of behavior that were hurting me and hurting other people, but I had no idea how to break them and replace them. Yeah. And so you have the great thing about what you just said is you've done the hardest part, which is you're aware.

And the thing about saying, let them and let me is these are tools that you can use to interrupt the automatic nature of how we respond to things and consciously choose a response. And the thing that I love about it when it comes to yourself is it's all about taking responsibility for your own experience of life. And I love the word responsibility because let's break it apart. Responsibility is the ability to respond.

And you always have the ability to respond. And when you start to take that moment where you detach and then you say to yourself, let me, let me remind myself that through my actions and my attitude, I can have a positive impact on anything. Let me remind myself that I can leave a conversation and interview a date, a dining room table anytime I choose to.

Let me remind myself that I always have power here and agency over myself. And I recognize that when somebody's gaslighting me or somebody is crossing a boundary or somebody says something ridiculously offensive and discriminatory, because it's already happened, you got to let them. You can't control what just happened. But now instead of focusing on them and trying to manage them,

you come back to where the power is, which is you. And you say, let me choose how I'm going to respond to this. And whether or not I'm going to respond at all, because obviously your silence can't be misquoted. And if you remove yourself from a conversation, conversation's over.

Sometimes I wonder if this entire thing is about just remembering that we're adults. And I mean that in a very literal way. When we're children, we don't have the agency.

We don't, we have to stay in situations that don't feel right. I was an elementary school teacher and I would think about it all the time. Like my little ones who had to go to PE with the bully and had to, or, you know, would have to go home to a home where they were mistreated. And childhood for us, I think we think of it as so far away, but in this scheme of time, it's right next to us. It was right. Just, it was so close. Yeah. And we forget.

When we are in that moment that you're talking about in the grocery store, I truly believe it has to do with forgetting that we're grownups. We think we're having a tantrum. It's a tantrum. We are constantly having inner tantrums, acting out in different ways because we forget

Liz Gilbert is one of my best friends and she always says to me, honey, you're never stuck. You have a credit card and a driver's license. You are never stuck anywhere, Glennon. And it is for me, all of it, all the Allen on all the like embodiment, all the work is about in each moment where I'm in, when something doesn't feel right, remembering that I am an adult with agency and I can actually put down the groceries and walk out.

I can stand up at a table and leave. I can say, fuck off if I want and then deal with the repercussions of that, that I am not five years old. But let's go layer deeper. Let's go layer deeper because most of us actually are stuck. We're not stuck in a physical place. We're actually stuck in a neurological

a physiological and a habitual pattern place that we are largely unaware of. Yeah. And see, I choose to go through life believing that every adult that I see is an eight year old trapped in a big body. Absolutely. Because being an adult and what that word means is that you actually are emotionally mature and nobody is. And the reason why nobody is is because our parents were

And it's a skill that you learn. You're not born emotionally mature. Children cannot regulate their emotions, which is why it is critical that if you're the caregiver or the teacher that you understand that it's your job and responsibility to help a child regulate their emotions. And because our parents were never taught how to do it, we were never taught how to do it. And by God, like I'm just now learning how to do it. And I'm 56 years old. Same.

And so what I love about Glennon looking at adults as eight-year-olds is that I'm not scared of anybody anymore. I feel a lot of compassion. When I see somebody who has a narcissistic personality style and I have a number of people in my life who do, and I understand

that narcissism based on the research from the world's leading experts, and you've had many of them on this podcast, they're not born that way, they're made, and largely through emotional neglect. And there's a developmental window where you learn as a human being true empathy, which isn't the ability to understand somebody, it's the ability to want to step in their shoes and seek to understand. And once that developmental window passes, it's gone.

And so when I deal with somebody who has a narcissistic personality style, or I see somebody in the news who does, I say to myself, that's an eight year old that was made that way by a bunch of adults who also had no idea what emotional maturity is and what children actually need. And so when I see it, I actually feel sorry for the person and I no longer feel like I have to navigate around them or that I have to tiptoe around them. I just let them.

I let them be. And then I choose how much time and energy I spend on it. I have zero expectation that this person is changing, zero. And so I do think most of us are stuck because we don't realize how we are still coping the same way we did as a kid. Like anybody that, like if you line up childlike behavior and adult behavior, it's the exact same. If a kid doesn't get a toy, a target,

They get overwhelmed with disappointment, sadness, surprise, upset, which is, by the way, all completely mentally healthy response to not getting what you want. They can't regulate their emotions, so they flop on the floor, right? And they have a full-blown tantrum. As a mom, I completely screwed this up.

I would be like, wait, get out the floor. Like I'd be yelling at my kid or worse. You want to know what else I did? I literally remember going to the end of the aisle and turning the corner on the aisle with an eye on my kid, hoping that when they came out of the tantrum and looked up, they'd be so freaked out I was gone that they stopped crying. This is why all three of my children need therapy now. And so what does an adult do when they're disappointed or upset? They rage text.

They scream at you. That's a tantrum. A child who doesn't give what they want, they pout in the corner. What does an adult do? They do the silent treatment. Which, by the way, isn't removing yourself from a conversation. It's punishing somebody by removing yourself from them.

Right. It's the exact same behavior. And that's why I think people are stuck is because, and that's why I was stuck. I had no idea how to process my emotions. I had no idea how to deal with anybody else's emotions. And so learning just recently to let adults be adults. Let your mom be disappointed.

Why is it your job to make her happy? Let Abby bag the damn groceries if that's what she needs to do. You're not her parent. Can you talk to us a little bit about how to use this way of life or skill in our closest relationships? Like I want to hear you talk about how this has changed your familial, sibling,

parental friendships, because I think that's where this gets the hardest. That's where the rubber meets the road and our internal states make this hard because relationships are often a then diagram. And it's hard to know where you start and where they stop. And we have been taught that love is helping each other evolve. Right. So talk to us about how this helps you

with your closest relationships. That's a great question. And I want to throw a request in for the Olympic level of the question, which is like in your marriage, because then your Venn diagram actually overlaps in a place where you have a responsibility not just to let them because they're your children. So WTF on that one, if you could circle back around. Sure. So I want to start with a metaphor, or it's a visual.

I think about family and your closest relationships like a spider web.

So if you're ever out in the morning for a walk and the do hits a spider web, it's a beautiful thing and it like really brings it to life, right? And the interesting thing about families or marriages or parent-child relationships is that it's always the negative or destructive or toxic or immature behavior that upsets the system. It's almost like when somebody is super dramatic or very immature or just

not a fun person to be around. It's like they walk in the room, it's like tap, tap, tap, and all the dew shakes off the spider web. I want to start by saying the opposite is also true. That if you are a calm and loving and grounded human being, you actually have more authority and power in that system than the person who's toxic. Truth.

And so that's what's available to you because it takes one person in a family or a marriage or a parenting relationship to change everything. And the way that you change everything in the dynamic is not by focusing on changing the other person. And I can talk about the neuroscience research that I wrote about in the Let Them Theory book to explain that right now the way that we approach relationships is backfiring.

The reason why you have friction and frustration and tension in your relationships is because you're coming from a place of judgment, control, and worry. And you have to flip it. And you've got to focus on your energy and how you show up. Because when you shift your energy and how you show up, it changes the entire dynamic. Because yes, it is impossible to change another human being.

But I never said you couldn't influence them. And so we're going to teach you the very fun way to create positive change inside your family, your marriage, or with your kids. Because when you give up control, you actually gain it.

When you give people space to be who they are, you actually create space for them to step toward you and for them to change for themselves. And so when you think about family, number one, your family's not changing.

Number two, you get to decide. Stop the wait. Hold. Hold. They're not changing. But what if we're really calm and we walk into every dynamic and our energy is so calm and we keep one eye open to see if anyone's changed yet. That's not gonna work. People can sniff it from a mile away. God damn it again. Like even wishing somebody would change. I know. Yes. They feel it, right? Because here's the thing.

We started the conversation by talking about control. Every human being has a hardwired need for control because it's a survival instinct. If you're not in control of yourself and your environment, you feel unsafe. The problem is that we're trying to control the wrong things.

And we try to control other people, like we want our kids to be more motivated. We want our partners to get in better shape. We want our moms to go to therapy and not be so annoying because we worry about them, right? It's normal to do this. It's a sign of love for a lot of us that we're worried about you. It's a good thing to see the potential in your friends. It's a good thing to want more for your kids. It's a good thing to want your partner to take better care of themselves.

Wanting more for somebody that you love, wanting positive change is a fabulous thing. That's not the problem. The problem is how we're approaching it. Because what the research shows, and this comes not for me, but from the world's leading psychiatrist and like neuroscience people, is that because we're all wired for control, the second somebody pressures you, you don't create motivation to change. You actually create resistance to change.

Oh, because damn it, they're wired for control too. I never thought about that. Everyone else is trying to control shit as much as I am. Yes. I thought I was the center of the universe. Yes. And what's weird is let's just take an example where you have a kid who is not motivated around school.

I understand why you want them to be motivated. I understand why you want them to excel and be proud of themselves. And here's the thing. People do well when they can. Oh, that's sweet and sad. And if somebody can't do well,

There's probably a skill that's missing. And don't you think your kid knows they're not doing well in school? Don't you think they wish this came easier? And the interesting thing about what happens when people are stuck or they're struggling is that they're not complacent. Like the hardest working person in a classroom is the kid

that's having trouble in school. I know that's so true. Yeah. And yet what do we do when that happens with an adult or a child or a teenager? We punish, we push, we pressure. And that statement, people do well when they can, comes from Dr. Stuart Adlon at Mass General Brigham, who's been a psychologist for 30 years. And it's true.

And so your pressure or your desire for somebody to change actually is more judgment. And somebody who's struggling is so hard on themselves.

And so people know when they need to lose weight, people know when they're drinking is a problem, people know when they're not doing so well at work, people know when they're hitting the snooze button six, seven times in a morning, and God, they wish they could get up and have one of those morning routines that make people seem very happy. People know when their depression is consuming them.

And if you really think about what I'm saying, that somebody who's struggling knows it, and they're in a battle with themselves, and the second that they feel now your concern and your worry, now this is even more weight and more evidence that they're failing at something that they wish they could succeed at. I choose to believe

that everybody longs to be happy. I choose to believe that people are capable of it. I choose to believe that everybody deep within their hearts has a dream for their life. And when you are quietly giving up on yourself, you know it. And you feel pressure because you also know people around you know it.

And so how do you create space for somebody to access the potential and the ability inside themselves to not only want to change, but to believe that it's possible. And now let's add in everything that you talk about and to do the hard thing. So I'm going to explain what I learned in researching this book, which is we are naturally wired.

to move toward anything that feels good and easy. That is how the brain is wired. And we are also wired to move away from anything that feels hard. And so if you start pressuring somebody, if you're now walking up the stairs to see if they're off the video games and they're actually working on their homework, do you feel like the kind of person that's easy and fun or very hard?

hard. So they shut down and move away from you. Another thing that I learned in researching the Let Them Theory, and this comes from research from Dr. Talley Sherritt at King's College London, who studies what influences people's behavior.

is that they have done brain scans. And this is one of the reasons why politics is the place that it's in. I mean, these are bazillion reasons why, but if somebody is telling you something, you don't want to hear, or if somebody is saying something that you disagree with, the part of the brain that actually absorbs new information turns off. This is why trigger warnings don't work. This is why the scary photos on cigarette packages don't work because literally the part of the brain that processes that information

Not working. And people also have this thing called exceptionalism, which everybody believes they're at the exception. Everybody believes that, oh, well, you know, if I smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, I'm the one that's not going to get lung cancer. That doesn't apply to me. And so you've got all this brain wiring. We move towards what's easy and playing video games is easier than staring at your homework when you know you're not good at it. That's why we do video games because it's easy sitting on the couch is easier.

then going to the gym. That's why we sit on the couch, laying in bed and staring at the ceiling and thinking about your problems. Even if you know it's making it worse, it feels easier in the moment than forcing yourself out of that warm bed and into a cold morning to face a day that overwhelms you. That's why we lay in bed. And so when you accept the facts of how we're wired, you start to understand, wow, it's actually really hard to change.

And so how do you show up in a way that changes things? What you have to do is first of all, you gotta have a conversation with the person that you care about. And the way that you can have the conversation, I outline it in the book based on the research from the leading psychiatrist is you have to first apologize for any pressure or judgment. I've been really worried about you and I know I've been a giant pain in the ass and I have been pressuring you and I can't even imagine how hard it must be.

And I've never actually asked you, how do you feel about school? And listen, and they might even just be like, well, I'm fine. It doesn't matter what they say, because what you're actually doing is you're leaning in and asking. And for anybody that's stuck and struggling, one of the most important motivating forces is actually tension inside yourself.

You know, I'm sure you've heard that saying in sobriety that people only get sober when getting drunk is harder than facing the things that you're scared to face. And there is a level of pain that people need in order to galvanize the desire to do better for themselves. It's just a fact. And when you lean in and say, how is this for you?

I haven't even asked you, what is it like for you? What makes it hard? You know, is there a reason why you'd rather play video games if you thought about like what you might like to do about this? If you thought about whether or not you even want to be in school? Oh, well, why do you feel that way?

When you get somebody to just talk a little bit, regardless of what they say, you know what you're doing? You're actually creating this really important tension between what somebody deeply desires for themselves. And I choose to believe that everybody desires a happier and more connected life where they feel like they're thriving. And everybody deserves that. Instead of the tension being externalized between you and them,

Yes. When you take away the external tension, now it's internal. Yes. Bingo. Bingo. Because when you as a human being see the tension between what you actually want for yourself and that your actions don't align with it, now you're creating this internal, what they call intrinsic motivation to really want to do something. And then you ask the most important question. What do you think you want to do about it?

Yeah, because Mal, it's like, I think this is so true. I've experienced this with many people where when you are the controller, the warrior, the whatever, the person you love is trusting you to do that for them. Yep. And so I have seen this with my adult children or a friend or whatever. If I say to a person, if I don't bring them that that dude is bad news,

that why are you dating him? I've done this in my life where then suddenly I just say, so okay, I hope it's great, how's it going? You can feel a palpable like, oh fuck.

Shit, it's my job to figure out if he's a good dude. Because it's no longer this, like, they don't feel that their job is to defend the person to me. Suddenly, they are solely responsible for whether this is actually a good thing or not. There is no external monitor. They have to monitor that. And then you can actually often not always see them go, oh shit. I don't even know if I like this dude. Do you want to like this dude? Yeah.

Exactly. I like to have these conversations in the car.

Because, you know, like we've all had these experience where your kids open up or your partner opens up in the car and there's actually research around this. There's something related to that kind of forward ambulation of the motion that opens up your thinking and the fact that you don't make eye contact allows somebody to be reflective and they're also trapped, which is helpful. And there's no drinking involved, which is helpful. But I want to give you another example because then what do you do? Well, then you got to back off.

Yeah. Because for somebody to want to change, they have to have enough space from you to actually feel like it's their idea and that they're not going to get that. See, I told you as soon as you did that, which feels like more punishment and judgment. And it's belittling. And so I'm going to give you a really positive example, because then what you're going to do after you back off and just give them a couple of months,

just back off. You can keep kind of it. How's it going? Anything else I could do? Anything you've been thinking you might want to try about this? Anything you need for me? Where's the friend that's in it? What do you like about like the relationship? How's it going? What's making you happy about it? When are we going to meet this person? You're not bringing them around. We'd love to hang out with them. That's like, oh, then you're going to just celebrate anything positive that you see. And you're going to model.

the behavior without shoving it in their face. So you have to make the chain like you can't expect somebody to be sober while you're pouring a glass of wine while you're like cooking dinner. That's not fair. You can't expect somebody else to take better care of themselves while you're ramming a cake down your throat. That's not fair. You have to model the behavior change you want to see.

and you got to make it look fun and easy. So I'm going to give you an example of how this works. You ready? So let's just say that you're in an office and you're working and you're the kind of person because you're very controlling like me and Glennon and you're like, oh, a lot. And you sit there and you work through lunch, right? And you're tap, tap, tap on your laptop and shove in the sandwich down your throat. And then you see your colleague get up and every day.

They get up and they go outside and they take a walk. And then when they come back, they're like smiling and brighter. And then they sit down and you just keep going. You keep going. You keep going. And weeks go by. And then all of a sudden one day, you look up and it's a sunny day and you go, you know, I think I go for a walk and you shut your laptop and you walk outside. You think it's your idea.

Yes. You don't credit your colleague. That's right. That's right. But that is an example of how their behavior and the fact that they made it look fun and easy, influenced you. And this is your power. When you walk into your family and the narcissist is over here and the political person's over here and you don't buy into any of it.

And you let them, because you know you're not going to spend any time and energy controlling the uncontrollable. And the only reason why you're here is because you value family. And so you choose to create relationships with boundaries, even with difficult people, because you value doing it in your life on your terms.

But you do it in a way where you're unaffected. You're not gossiping. You're not rolling your eyes. You are unbothered. Here's another wonderful tool with the Let them Theory.

So a lot of us struggle with guilt, right? You know, I live far away from my parents where two plane rides away. They're in the Midwest in a small town. I'm in Southern Vermont and I hate that I raised my family away from my parents. Like I wish they lived closer. I wish my brother wasn't in Chicago, but I'm not moving to Chicago. I'm not moving to the small town in Michigan where I grew up. They're not moving to Southern. It is what it let them like it is what it is.

But I still like it makes me sad. My dad's 80 years old. I've got, if I'm lucky, 10 more holidays with him. And so it's a big thing in my life to make more time. Now, if I'm not going home for the holidays, my parents are disappointed. And let them be disappointed.

Isn't it a good thing that somebody's disappointed that you can't show up? Oh, that's nice way to think about it. I mean, isn't that a beautiful thing? Isn't disappointment when somebody doesn't show up, whether it's at a business meeting or at a family thing, a beautiful thing, it's a sign that they love you? Isn't that what you want people to feel?

What's the alternative? Thank God that bitch isn't coming. Complete apathy. Did you notice she wasn't here? Yes. Disappointments a beautiful thing. So let them be disappointed. But the issue is we're also uncomfortable with other people feeling disappointed that we make it our jobs to solve it.

Yeah. And it is a way that you love people. Like let's talk about what love is. Love in my definition is two things. It's consideration and it's admiration. And consideration just means you have someone in mind. Making somebody a cup of coffee and using the oat milk is an act of love because you are considering them. Admiration is the ability to look at somebody and see something about them that you admire.

And you might admire their loyalty to family, and you hate their political opinions. You might admire their commitment to public service, but you hate their tone of voice. The reason why we have families is to teach you how to love somebody you hate at times. That's really what it's about.

and learning how to hold space that two things can be true. Your parents can be disappointed that you're not coming home. Your kids can be disappointed that you can't make it to the game this weekend. Let them be disappointed. Because when you let somebody have their emotions, you're actually showing them that you believe in their ability and strength to process those emotions. And you're honoring their experience

without needing to step in and change it. And then you go to the let me part, let me decide what I'm gonna do. See too many of us change our plans because we want everyone else to think we're a good friend or we want our parents to think that we're a good daughter or we want our spouse to think that we're a good partner. And if we don't do that, we're gonna feel guilty. Do not change your plans because of guilt.

Change your plans because it makes you feel good about you. If I'm going to change my plans, it's not so that my parents think I'm a good daughter. It's so that I think I am. And what happens when you do that is that you hold on to your power. Instead of turning your parents or your adult kids or whomever into the villain by saying, oh, I got to do this because they're going to be disappointed and I feel so guilty. You just gave all your power to somebody else. You turned them into the bad guy.

There's a whole different approach, which is allow people to have their feelings and then come back to yourself. Let me, let me double down on what I value and let me operate in a way that makes me proud of myself because when you're proud of yourself, you don't care what other people feel. You don't care what people think because you know who you are. Yeah.

I feel like that is the thing under the thing when you're talking about the kid doing the homework, right? Because I could actually give two shits if my kid is a good student. When I think about that... But then why does it bother you? Because I can't let myself off the hook for feeling like I am failing them.

It's not like I want them to be that kind of person. It's I want to be the kind of parent that fulfills my job, my role. I need to let go of my own view of myself because I'm not attached to their view. I'm not attached to my view of them as great students. I'm attached to my view of myself as a great mom. Yeah. And so are you measuring whether or not you're a great mom based on whether or not they're a great student?

I'm measuring whether or not I'm a great mom by how hard I'm trying to change him to give him what he needs, right? What do you think he needs from you? Structure, skills, support, but like he can have structure skills, support that are not related to outcome.

Right? It's like what you're saying. It's like, no, I can be a great mom who tries really hard. And it goes down this avenue instead of that avenue. That's connected to some kind of thing that he needs to be in control of. What you're saying, Sissy, it feels to me like an overarching thing of this and your work and Alanan and all of it is changing what we think love is.

Mm-hmm. When I heard the acronym of love is let others voluntarily evolve. Mm. That's good.

I thought, what? And subscribe. I thought, because Sissy, you are just loving in the way that you think love is, which is love is I help you become the whatever. But then the thing that we're helping people become is just some cultural idea of what people are supposed to become. So like, what I want to ask you now is,

We can use your skills. We can just start to like ask the questions and we can just go for the walk and make it look. But what I have found is if I am doing that with the still, the secret intention of changing you because I can do that shit. I am good at implementing a new strategy, but I've got one eye open to see if that person at the desk is going to get up for that walk anytime soon. This does not work.

Energetically, this does not work. Well, here's the other reason why it doesn't work. Everybody in your life knows you don't trust in their capacity. Exactly. And that's annoying. And it's demeaning. I have heard.

Seriously, when you, and this was a very hard thing for me, I mean, look, I made a massive mistake when one of our kids was struggling with anxiety. Oh my God, I probably prolonged her anxiety for years. She was waking up in the middle of the night and she came downstairs and I was exhausted. So I first, you know, you do that thing where you're sound asleep and you just lift up the sheets and then they crawl in right behind you. And she was smart enough not to go to Chris's side because Chris is very stoic and be like, okay, let's go back upstairs.

When you enable somebody by allowing them to avoid the thing that they're afraid of, you're actually teaching them that you believe that they're not capable of facing it. And when you constantly allow someone to avoid the natural consequences of their actions or inactions, whether it's because you keep paying for their life,

or you cover for them by lying about where they were, which is, you know, and they can't make it to work when they're actually hung over and they were out with their friends last night. You are delaying somebody's maturity and you are also allowing them to avoid one of the most important teachers in their life, which is life and the consequences of

Either making a decision or not. And every time you do that, you're basically teaching somebody, you're not capable and you need to be rescued. And people don't need to be rescued. They need support. And I think a lot about it this way. How do I create an environment for somebody to do better?

Not that I'm jumping on the field and running the ball down the field, but if I can create an environment where they could actually catch the ball and run down the field themselves, what does that look like? And this is deeply personal.

This is deeply personal. Like if you've got somebody that's struggling with profound depression, on one hand, you do have to let them because you can't want someone's healing more than they do. And you can't do the work for them, but you can create an environment where it's easier. You know, you can like have an agreement that you're going to walk in in the morning and pull open the curtains. So the sunlight comes in.

You can have music playing in the house so that their spirits are lifted. You can pick up your friend on the way to the yoga class instead of meeting them there so that you know that they'll come. These are ways to create an environment where somebody can get better. And you start doing that by sitting down and saying, how do you feel about this?

And a lot of people don't know what they need, but you can think about what are things I can do. I struggled with severe postpartum depression with our first daughter, who's now 25. I mean, they're really, really, really scary kind where they put me on these crazy meds. I'd lost so much blood.

These medications that I was literally a zombie for the first three months of her life, couldn't breastfeed. I sat on the couch like basically drooling. I couldn't be alone with her. Oh, it's awful. And if anybody had asked me, what do you need? How can I help? I wouldn't have known what to say. And so people just showed up. And when you have somebody in your life who's struggling,

The way the let them theory works is you do say let them because you recognize that they're really in a deep, dark place. You're going to let them be who they are, but then you're going to come back to the let me part, let me figure out how I can show up. Let me figure out how I can create an environment for somebody's healing, knowing that I can't do the work.

knowing that this is going to be a deeply personal thing. But I gotta let them, as you said, the LOV, I can't even remember where they accurate them now, but you're literally letting them be on their own journey while you are on the sideline offering support. And the intention is not actually to change that person. This is everything to me is like, oh,

All I want to do is make that person feel loved by me. All I want. So I think about that with you, Sissy, and the school thing. It's like, if the intention is I'm doing all of these things so that he can do better in school or whatever, what if that's like totally missing the mark? What if it's like all it is, is what do I do so he feels my love for him as he is? Yeah.

Because it for me, it's like intention, right? Like if it's on the wrong vibration, no matter what you're doing, it'll be wrong. Right. Yes. Well, it's also there's a difference between intention and impact. So there's a lot of things that we do where we have a really good intention, but the impact in another human being is the opposite of what we intended. And so I think especially as a parent or a spouse,

There's a lot of things that we intend because we care about you and we love you and we want the best for you, but the impact is actually demoralizing or controlling or like you don't even see me. And one of the things that has helped me a lot in my relationships and using the let them theory is just seeing that I have such a hardwired need to be a problem solver that I run over my family and let them has been

revolutionary for me as a parent and as a spouse because I have such a problem solving nature that I just step in or I just offer the advice or I just take care of it. And what happens is it makes my husband or our three children feel like I don't care. I'm not acknowledging how difficult something is. I am not even stopping to ask.

how they're doing or what they need, that I've just run them over. And the impact is they don't feel loved. They feel controlled. They don't feel supported. They feel judged. They don't feel empowered. They actually feel diminished because I've solved everything. Allowing people, letting them live their lives is one of the best ways you can love them.

That's right. Allowing people their emotions, allowing people their struggles and holding on to the belief that you're strong enough to figure this out. That is a way to love somebody, allowing somebody the space to do it their way. That's how you hold space for two things to be true. You can have strongly held opinions about what somebody should be doing, right? And allow them

to do it the way they're gonna do it. I feel happy for people who read the book and it feels, the one thing we haven't talked about is how much joy it brings back to your life. Like my first month of Alan on meetings, I just would sit there and be like, well, what the fuck am I supposed to do today? All my entire day is fixing things that no one asked me to fix. So like, what do I do? You begin to evolve because

It feels too good to be true. Nobody who's like me wants to be like this. Like nobody wants to feel the weight of the world and their people on their shoulders all the time. And the reason why people like me do it is because we think that's love. I mean, Mel, I would have sworn to God that Abby,

was just being a reckless, selfish human being by not thinking about our people all the time. And it took a really long time of being like, I think our people feel more loved by her than my version. I'm so glad you're talking about this, Glennon, because I want to point something out. We're at a moment in the world where people are chronically stressed and overwhelmed and discouraged and feeling very powerless and uncertain.

And one of the exciting things that the let them theory and saying, let them and let me is that you're going to realize how much time you've been wasting on things that are beyond your control and that don't matter, which means you get all of this time back. And you're also going to realize that 95% of your stress is coming from other people.

And you're going to immediately feel more peaceful and more powerful, which means you get to take all that time and energy back and really pour it into yourself, your relationships, your community.

the issues that truly matter to you, that you do have the ability to make an impact on instead of just allowing things and other people that are beyond your control to drain your life force. And that to me is incredibly exciting because we need you.

We need you to show up and to be glowing and to be a light and to be that calm force that walks into your family or walks into the relationship or walks into the classroom or the hospital or the local school council meeting or is knocking door to door advocating for an issue that you care about.

more than any other time we are all being called to stop allowing the darkness and other things to drain us and to gather up our energy and use it for good. And one of the most important things that you could do is to truly be more peaceful and confident yourself because that creates a ripple effect

in every relationship and every situation you're in. You will not be screwed around with by anybody. I don't care how narcissistic they are. I don't care what's going on. Nothing will rock you because you have found your center again. And that is what is available.

It's good. It's about real power, not big power. Mel Robbins, we're gonna make sure everybody knows exactly where to find the book. You are so helpful and this was absolutely beautiful and I'm so grateful for it. Well, thank you. I'm honored to be here. I've been waiting for this moment to be able to be with you. And anytime you, I know you don't travel up, but if you wanna get on a plane and come to Boston, I would love to have y'all come.

and be on the Mal Robbins podcast. Mel, I'm gonna need you to let me be the hermit that I am, but I would love to come on the podcast. I'll just do it from here. How about that? All right, we'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. Okay, we love you, Mel. I love you too. Thank you for this. Thank you. Let them everybody. Bye. See you next time.

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We can do hard things, is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle, in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Burman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.