Meet The Man Behind Conor McGregor’s +$650M Empire

What was reported, I think, was 30 to Connor and 100 to Floyd. Was that what was reported? I think it was for certainly higher for Connor than I know. And for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did again. Wow. You really think that 100 million was true? Well, Connor was, I'd say,

just under 100, right, when it's all said and done. So that's his part. We had a partner in the UFC, and I will get into the specifics. But yes, from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in 100, assuming that he didn't take it all.

I see all these interviews with you. I see you on the UFC like buying the scene stuff and you're always wearing slick suits and you're dressed nice right now. But I just saw that you're drinking out of a Stanley mug just to remind everyone at home that no matter how fancy someone is, we all have a little basicness inside of us.

You know, I always say like, you know, it's business much like sports. You have to, you know, you wear your uniform to play the game, right? But we're all human at the end of the day. We all have our casual clothes or, you know, our at home. I've only seen one interview you and I've watched a bunch of interviews. There's only one interview that you weren't wearing a suit. You're wearing like Lulu lemon and a hat. I'm going to have to switch it up now, man. I have to switch it up. But it's a pleasure to meet you guys.

You should zig and zag the other way, because I think a lot of people in the agents, talent management, they are all very slick looking. You should go the other way, right? You should go athleisure as your main thing, because you were an athlete, so I feel like you could pull that off and a lot of guys in that space will all look like suits in comparison. I'm going to have to, man. I'm going to have to to make people remember that I was actually one of them before I became a suit.

Well, there was some bum out there in San Francisco who was the first person to wear just like, you know, pajama bottoms and a t-shirt instead of a suit. That's your burden now, I guess. I was on Cali, too. So I got to start just rocking flip flops, you know what I mean? Just all good with the flip flops and the shorts. In Silicon Valley, it's like the opposite. Like I remember when I first moved here, I went to like this nice kind of like club, speakeasy type thing.

And everybody's waiting in line and a guy walks up with a hoodie and you know, it just looks completely disheveled and the bouncers know like, all right, this guy's either homeless or a billionaire. We don't know which one. We got to just err on the side of maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg. Let him in. Let him in first. Go that way. I realize, oh shit, the status game is different here.

That's funny. I heard a lot about that. Yeah. Certainly counterculture, if you go to business, the normal bid. The New York, the New York hustles, all suit and tie, whereas the San Francisco hustles definitely flip flops and holes in your t-shirt.

So your introduction here is it's there's you've got a bunch of stuff. So you've started paradigm, which is you just call it an agency, a sports agency, sports management company. Let's say it's a sports management entertainment platform. It's what it is. Platform. All right. With the most famous guy being Conor McGregor. But I also think you have Izzy. Do you have one more champion on there? I thought you had three.

So Izzy is a former client of ours, but definitely was an amazing client while he was with us. Michael Bizbing. Michael Bizbing. He's one of what Thompson, Michael Bennett Page, Rico Verhoeven, past clients. I was just like Chris Lydell, who was actually one of my first clients. That's how I got into the sport. But yeah, very fortunate to work with some of the greatest spiders of all time, though.

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Yeah, so just a bunch of ballers. But then you also co-founded Proper 12, which we're going to ask you all about it. But according to the headlines, it was like a $600 million exit. So you've had some, maybe even more success there than the main thing. What's cool is, so you run a talent, like let's say, what part of your business is talent management, talent agency?

And that's cool. There's a bunch of our audience that also owns agencies, which I think is great. But what I liked about you is that you have also kind of the venture side. So you're like creating brands and business ventures off the talent. And we've talked about these kind of creator brands in the past. We had, you know, Mr. Beast on here and he's got all these kind of like festivals. He's got other

corporate brands underneath it. We had an Instagram star, Dani Austin come on and she's got Divi, like a hair care brand that's doing way more money than she can get kind of just in versus like influencer brand deals. And so what I like is that you've got- And Rob Deardick? Yeah, Rob Deardick, you've got both. And that's been a theme that we've kind of been

been playing with. So I think we'll, we'll try to hop around a little bit, but I definitely bless you. Bless you. I mean, I'll be remiss by then give you those two. Sorry. Oh, wow. What a gentleman. Look at that.

John may edit it out. That's a character show right there. I'm talking if Sam's dying over there. I'm going to finish my point. I don't care. He's good. He'll come back. No, no, I appreciate the recognition. Look, I mean, we certainly I feel we're one of the early platforms, last agencies, if you will, that really saw not only

You know, an opportunity, but more so wanted to do more for our clients, right? We wanted to disrupt our respective industry, but also think far beyond that, not just think transactional. And for me, in mixed martial arts, it was an underserved market. And we wanted to not only advocate for our clients, but advocate for the sport, really push fighter, fighter, not only earnings higher and higher, which still have a long way to go, but they've come a long way from when we first started.

back in 2009 in the sport. We were very fortunate because we came in right before the first, you know, right steel was actually paid. You know, the UFC was paying to be on spike prior to the Fox deal. And as you know, most people know, that's the main economic driver of any professional sports organization.

whether it's the NFL, the NBA, and now obviously from a mixed martial arts perspective, the UFC. They were paying Spike to put themselves on TV? That's publicly known. They were actually paying for that airtime, so the original Ultimate Fighter, and then all that was broadcast on Spike back in the day.

Yeah, they were not only funding their own production, but they were paying for that airtime. And Fox was that really first paid deal that the UFC garnered, which was a monumental milestone for the sport and for the promotion. And the sport of mixed martial arts is

it would be here without the UFC, which is the catalyst, but where the sport is today. Now you have other promotions that are competing, and promotion is very synonymous with leagues, right? So when you talk about leagues, you know, there's certain terminologies within the sports world that are very similar, although there's a lot of differences as well, right, in terms of, you know,

athletes in Minnesota and VA being employees and then fighters being independent contractors. So for us, we saw an opportunity of it not only being the fastest growing sport in an underserved market. So they asked leads, but then also really thinking beyond just management, how could we create more value for the clients? And it takes a special client and a special personality like Conor McGregor. So I was very fortunate to sign him 10 years ago.

And, you know, and we had a vision and he was very, very bullish about that vision as well. Let's rewind. Let's rewind to that. So you, your stories kind of give the first part very fast. So you play football at UCLA and I'm getting injured. You move into

You've got some kind of football players as your first clients. And then you branch into MMA and you discover Conor McGregor. Can you tell the story? How did you discover Conor? What was his situation like at that time? And what was those kind of the first meeting? It takes back to those days. Yeah, sure.

I think taking it back to the first days, the early days is really working with guys like Chris Lido, right? Getting into the business or working with a guy like that. I got to work with him for one fight and he retired. So then it was being able to sign Michael Bizbing, which was a massive opportunity for me and someone that I'm so proud of, not only as a client, but as a friend as well.

went on to be the first British champion, first UFC champion from the UK. He was a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up-and-coming athletes within Europe, Ireland included. I was very fortunate enough to start to work with Michael and other clients as well earlier in my career in the UFC and mixed martial arts in particular.

And so when I signed Conner, it was when he first came on to the UFC scene, right? He was fighting in the regional promotion in Europe, Cage Warriors, which is still around and still, you know, that was called a mid-major, if you will. And these are, to some extent, they're professional promotions, but they're feeder programs from the larger promotions, if you will. And he had just signed to the UFC and we were introduced

interestingly enough like through Facebook and you know at the time it was he was you know looking at signing with one of the agencies in the sport and I got an opportunity to pitch him and coach his coach John Kavanaugh as to why I felt that we would be the best fit for him so you got to you know put your best foot forward and

and give it a shot and hopefully you win that business. And I was fortunate enough that we got the first opportunity actually to work with him heading into his first fight. We were saying, OK, well, let's pause now. Let's talk after this first fight. So he beats Marcus Brimage. Was that the 50s baby? That's the famous line that fight.

After that, his second fight was his US debut, actually, against Max Holloway. And we started to work with one another heading into that fight. And so the rest is history. But one of the things we recognize is not only his athletic ability, but then he had a special knowledge talent inside the octagon.

But you could tell he was very special and charismatic. He had that it factor that I think it's once in a generation type of an athlete as well, not only from a physical perspective, but a qualitative perspective. And so the sky was going to be the

The limit in terms of what we could do together and was that i mean i've i've seen all the there's these older interviews where congress saw his acne has no tattoos and he says like you know mark my words you will see me in the ufc will see me as a champion one day and then coming up leading up to that mark this fight and then i think it was denis silver in boston i remember correctly like in the early days you still see that he has some type of star power on camera.

But behind the scenes, even at a young age in his early 20s, did you notice that the confidence in the star power was there just in your normal hanging out sessions? Yeah, you could definitely see his charisma behind the scenes. And, you know, he was, like I said, he was very witty, very, very confident, but also very engaging. You know, I think one of the things I always tell people is that, you know, majority of people in the world

Know who kind of a regular is and I would argue that most of them never seen him fight. They've actually seen more of his interviews and and and and him talking because you know when he talks you can't take your eyes off the process, right? He's just so fun and whether you love him or hate him. You're watching him, you know, and that's that's I think what makes him special

Yeah, you find a conner is kind of like we've had guys on this podcast that are like, yeah, I discovered Uber. I was like the fifth investor in Uber or, you know, like their early investors and Facebook or something like that, right? It's like a, it's like an angel investment that goes on to become this is what we call

It's a unicorn, right? It's like this billion dollar brand that you discover at that early age where were other people Pitching him for business at that time because I remember that first brimage fight there was like a hype around him like even his entrant entrance people were like really excited about him and I Didn't know who he was at the time. So I don't even know how people were so excited about the guy at that time. So I imagine that

You know, there were other agents trying to win that business at that time. Um, do you have any good, fun anecdotes or stories of like your hustle at that time to get him or was it like, no, people, it was kind of like a, like an ignored asset. People didn't realize that this was going to be, that he was going to be a big deal and it really, what it didn't look like. It was like this hotly contested thing. No, I definitely think that people were, were, um,

you know, hot on him, but I think everybody was pinching him on the same idea. It was more transactional. And I think what were, I stood out sturly was because I had a broader vision. I had a broader vision of creating IP, you know, creating media and content, but also creating business ventures, right? And I really was bullish on that idea. And I remember even when I first launched paradigm 2009, my business plan was not only to be the best in class from a management perspective, but build

uh clients media and IP where we're by building more brand equities to them and that will yield not only more entry revenues from a sponsorship perspective but increase their value from a from their playing contract or perspective athletically and also leads to to business ventures and you know i i was laughed at when i first had that business plan it's too busy focus on what you could do you know like and and i think that that's what

stood out to him because he had that vision in for himself as well. And it was even if you think about what we did back in 2017 with the Floyd fight. I mean, everybody thought we were crazy, you know, that that fight was never going to happen.

Everybody doubted us. Everybody, even some of those ended up doing the deal and partnering with us. So ultimately, we had to believe in ourselves and more importantly go out and actually execute, right? Because you can have dreams, you can have visions, you can start something. But if you don't execute successfully, it means nothing. And now that trend is common. Those exhibitions now are commonplace. You see everybody now taking place in these exhibitions. And there's an appetite from a consumer perspective for these unique matchups

where people are matched up from different sports, just to compete in combat sports. And then we even launched our venture on the back of that. We launched proper 2018. And so, again, at that time, I think it was maybe George Clooney and maybe Puff Daddy at the time.

You know, but I don't think anybody else now, like spirits, everybody has some type of a liquor brand that they're they're hocking and and then ventures is commonplace as well. So, you know, to me, I'm proud of the fact that we had this vision that we were able to execute more importantly, you know, because it's very hard to do. It's hand-to-hand combat every day, entrepreneurship.

I, uh, I want to ask you about the proper 12 stuff, but before that. So like I grew up watching entourage. And so you see like RE manual or RE gold dealing with like crazy young actors who have monies and money. And it's like, you know, drugs and sex. And then ballers. It's like, uh, drugs and sex as well. But the difference between, uh, you know, ballers, what's NFL, but then there's the difference I imagine.

with UFC fighters where it's you're not an actor, you're not a player, you're going to get out there and you're underwear and fight to the death in front of millions of people. Can you like tell me a little bit about the difference between managing someone like Connor or Izzy like these like, because I imagine the

Are they crazy? What's that mindset like on a daily basis in that mentality, particularly when it comes to business? Have you found that you've got to hold them back from being so aggressive sometimes? Or what's that like with that type of athlete? Well, first of all, I don't think they're crazy per se. So it's not because of the profession or the sport that they're in that they tend to be maybe a little bit.

crazy, so to speak, right? I mean, like, when I say crazy, I mean, like high risk, high risk. Well, I think, look, it means, depending on the field you're in, that's subjective what you think high risk and not most. Totally. Most people that come from, let's say, if you're a neurosurgeon, you're going to think the combat points are super high risk, right? But ultimately, I think every human being is different. There's certainly, when you're that competitive,

you're gonna be driven you're gonna be more aggressive and i think i see it even business the same at the highest level. There's there's that chip on the shoulder there's that edge that that every high level competitor has whether it's an athlete in different sports or whether it's a business matter woman.

at the highest level of the respective field. So obviously, business acumen varies, right? So if you're talking about an institutional investor versus a professional athlete, that varies. But even within the sport, you have athletes that have a very high level business acumen. Hunter's not trained from an institutional perspective. He didn't go get his MBA. He doesn't have that academic background, if you will, right? But he's a very natural businessman.

What's a story as an example of that? Well, I mean, this story is proper 12. I mean, couldn't easily take in a check from a sponsorship perspective and been so short-sighted, as opposed to putting up our own capital initially, finding the right operating partner, finding the right strategic capital, supply chain route to market, going out and creating our own.

working without getting the sponsorship check for X amount of posts or Y amount of appearances, if you will, for an ultimate windfall that changes life and is generational well. So that in itself is a great example. Do you guys have like Jameson? We're like, Hey, we want to sponsor you and you were like, dude, fuck this Connor. Let's do our own thing.

He's always had a desire to get into whiskey. It's like he's Irish. It's part of the DNA, right? And his grandfather was a whiskey man. And we always had the idea when we were approached by a sponsor. And it was like, do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check? Or do we just go and own our own business? And when you study the category and looked at the TAM and you looked at the opportunity, you're like, we could, this is right for disruption. We actually

could really come in and do something here, right? And so that's a perfect example of his natural business. It's hard to do that, especially at that level. He wasn't making a ton of money yet up until we got to the Floyd flight, which is, by the way, when we announced our entry into the market, we announced our entry into the whiskey market in our post-flight press conference. Yeah, I remember he's holding the glass

We started, though, the process in 2014. And we were doing a lot of research and development and pivoting from different groups. And ultimately, we found the right formula, if you will, on the right team, et cetera. And the rest is history. And that, to me, takes a lot of intelligence for an athlete to do that's not trained. How does it have the experience of building a business?

and more over the patients, right, to really bet on himself. How much of your guys' capital did you put up to get it off the ground? And do you remember what your first year of sales was? Well, I'll tell you, I can't disclose all the information just due to strict confidentiality provisions that exist with our partners and our acquirer, so I got to be safe. But I can tell you that we put up probably a few hundred thousand of our own capital.

Initially, I could say that right and that's you know, I mean that most of that went to lawyers if you will just before you can get started so But it's like strategically I think the way we said it ever we had great partners, you know one of our partners is Is an operating genius and is a wizard and the spirits business Ken Austin, so I gotta give him shout out because I

Yeah, he had another company, right? I mean, he did out of your own. Then he, yeah, probably with us, is that I'm terrified of now. He's in the low, low gender. Oh, he's a, he's a, he's a gee, when it comes to experience business, you know?

And when you find people like that, are you doing just like a, like a 30, 30, 30, like, you know, you guys all split equity. Well, I can't go into the details of the cap table. I wish I could, but again, the strong confidentiality provisions and all that. But it was a, it's a fair deal. And I think everybody's happy in the end, but moreover,

You bring on a black belt that knows what they're doing. Because at the end of the day, that's part of operating a business and being successful. It's like, you know what you don't know, but essentially, no matter what the cap table looks like, you got to make sure you bring on the right expertise, right, from an operational perspective. You have to have all the right ingredients to be able to execute successfully.

So even with something like that, let's say just to put this in perspective, the decision to say, well, we could just take a straight sponsorship deal, give a check, make a few Instagram posts, and cast that check versus we're going to do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand. The payoff difference, I imagine.

You could tell me from, I think it's probably a hundred to one. Would that be approximate? So like, you know, if you just say, okay, over a few years, we would have a kind of an alcohol sponsor and we're doing, you know, kind of these scheduled posts with them or commercials with them or whatever it may be. I think it's probably something like 50 to 100 X bigger return by doing the work. Is that, you

I would say it's a multiple of that. A few hundred different. How much of a sponsor should have been? I mean, back at that time, when we first started the process, it would have been $250,000 or something like that. I would have been a big one. By the time we launched, it probably was in the seven-figure range.

in terms of sponsorship annually, right? That's like an annual deal. Annual deal, right? Yeah. Okay. So a million, some millions per year in order to promote a whiskey versus hundreds of millions. Yeah, exactly. So I would say, I would say like, it was, you know, you could run any, you know, analysis, you know, an NPV and look at like how we want in one big.

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You talked about the Mayweather McGregor thing, how that came, like how that, nobody thought that that was gonna happen. And then it actually happened. And it was kind of amazing. I remember vividly where I was. I remember I was in Australia and I had to get up at a certain time. I was at a bar at like five in the morning or something like that to watch that fight. But I also remember the buildup. Like there was the kind of back and forth almost flirting on social media, talking trash to each other to try to generate interest.

Because I think both guys, Floyd and Connor, probably the two smartest businessmen ever that come through combat sports. And they kind of knew, okay, this is the right dance partner for us to like execute something, orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do. And I remember at the time it was seen as

almost like the Elon Musk's Mark Zuckerberg thing today, or it's like, wow, it'd be crazy if it happened, but there's no way. I mean, just to get all these people, to get them everyone to agree, seemed impossible. Can you take us back? Like, you know, like I see all these videos, if you like hanging out at counters house or whatever, and like you get the behind the scenes stuff, there had to have been just like a couch conversation where you guys are like, okay, could we do this? How could we do this? What was the early days like before it came to fruition?

So to your point, I think you have two of the smarter and shabby businessmen in combat sports that really understood, you know, the modern day fandom of both sports, right? And early days, like he wants to do it. And then it would be shot down by UFC, by members of the media, by whoever that just doubted that it would ever happen.

And I think that the banter is really what allowed it to happen because once they started going back and forth and you could actually see the level of engagement and interest from a market perspective and from a consumer perspective.

It was hard to deny it, right? It was hard to deny it because it was like, this is real. It's viable. It's a win-win scenario and a win for all parties who'd be involved. Why not, right? The fans want it. The fighters want it. And more over the numbers were speaking for themselves from an analytics perspective. So that allowed us to really use

What the two fighters were intelligently doing on a very instinctive level, right? There wasn't plan that wasn't scripted. It was very instinctive. But moreover, I think what my job is is to look at the data and be like, right, there's something very viable here. There's something that you have to be able to take and

continue to advocate and push for your client because you could effectively have a successful business opportunity even for the UFC. And so that I think it took them a while to come around, but eventually they did because they realized there was just such

amazing and intense interest around this event that it was real. It wasn't a gimmick. It was something that everybody wanted to see. And so I think that was credit to them too, because again, it went against all their normal business practice. They'd never done something like that before. And it took, you know, I think for them to see the substance of it all, to then move forward with us. And ultimately it was a huge success. I mean, over 4 million buys, I mean, I think there's probably, there's a

There was some report I remember receiving, like hundreds of millions of illegal streams. I mean, like, and we still did over 4 million buys. You know what I mean? Like, so could you imagine if like there's the most bootleg fight ever? Yeah. If we would have just been able to even just plug some of those holes and how many more buys we would have had, right? But I mean, it was such a

commercial success. I mean, can I ask you a quick question about those buys? Yeah. So you said, you said four million buys. I'm not, I'm not attacking this strictly about this fight, but when I see pay-per-view numbers, like what the headlines are, I think most of them are complete bullshit. I think that with a fighter says, like, for example, I remember Floyd has multiple times said he's earned nine figures, so a hundred plus million off of one, one fight.

And I think I've seen Conner say, I think he was just talking shit, but he's like, oh, I'm making this much money off this cowboy, Saroni fight. I think those are nonsense. And the reason I think they're nonsense is it's almost like a rapper bragging about how much money they have. It's like part of the brand. You're not. He's part of your brand. And also no one's incentivized like Dana or Showtime or HBO. They're not incentivized to like tell the public that, yeah, this dude's full of shit. We gave him $2 million. He didn't earn $20 million off this thing.

Oh, wait, I, no, let me, let me just. That's a loaded, that's a loaded because there's certain elements of that, you know, could be hypothetically true. But for example, compensation is not fully reported. When you're talking about UFC, particularly MMA, like, that's not fully reported what the person's movie are at the highest level. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's actually more. It's even that true because I

It's just what's reported to the commission and assuming that they don't have, let's call it another agreement. So that's at your, in terms of pay per view, there's a speculation. So for example, May, Mac in particular, there was, you know, I think there was rumors that were starting to trickle in that it did over 60 million buys or something to that extent, you know what I mean? But it landed in like the four, three, four, four range. And that's, no, that's actual, right? I mean, ultimately, you know, those are not fudge numbers. And so what you were hearing about what

potentially Connor made and potentially Floyd made. On our side, I know it's more true. On the Floyd side, I don't know if he divulges who he splits it with or what that looks like on his side. So I can't comment on his, right? But UFC was our partner. So I know what they're reporting for Connor was Connor's. What was reported, I think, was 30 to Connor and 100 to Floyd. Was that what was reported?

I don't think so, but maybe. I mean, terms of what you're talking about reported to the commission of the papers. No, no journalists ever actually like breaks that down. You know what I mean? So that's why I'm saying like these numbers are so high. And I hear that. Well, I was I think for for I think it was for certainly higher for Connor than I know.

And, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did again. Wow, you really think that 100 million was true? Well, I mean, Connor was, you know, I'd say just under 100, right, when it's all said and done. So that's his part. So again, he has a part, we had a partner in the UFC. So, and I will get into the specifics. But yeah, so for Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in 100.

Um, assuming that he, he didn't take it all and didn't have partners. You should put it. You're a business guy. So you see what Floyd did in the boxing business where he basically became his own promoter, runs his own, runs his own ship so that he can take the lion's share of, of the revenue or the profits that come from an event.

where like in the past, guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed because they're out there fighting, generating all this demand. Then they look at 10 years later, they're like, where's all the money? And the promoter has basically enriched themselves in that way. And obviously the UFC is totally different. It's like a league, it works differently. But a guy like Connor is essentially as big of a brand as the UFC. Like, you know, let's say it's debatable. They're in the same like air.

And if Conor McGregor was to go do a fight on YouTube, pay per view or whatever he wanted to do, he could pull the same numbers as a UFC card without the UFC's promotion. Do you think like, I guess, when you see what Floyd did, do you think anybody's ever going to do that with the UFC or in MMA where they're going to become their own promoter and have their own shows? I think the sport is still young and it's still evolving, right? And while the UFC is to some extent synonymous to Lee as a promotion, it's still

Structured to some extent, you know like price fighting right there's still pay per view and even though there's rankings Sometimes you'll see the rankings are not the staff true meritocracy because it's still price fighting an entertainment to some extent, right? And and I think that they have come a long way, but there's not a long way to go in terms of how much fighters should could earn good earn

But the other day to from a boxing perspective, I think that's why boxing has been on the decline. It's still fragmented, right? And there's the end of the day, there's not a true promotion that's stood the test of time. I know top ranks been around forever.

Right. But who do they really have? Matching seems to be doing more obviously premier still around and still PBC still competing, but you see it kind of fragmented, right? Can't a little fight for. Matching one, one for a couple of fights, fighting for PBC for a fight. And the difference is, though, I think in boxing promotions could fight each other. And so they have to agree on that. Right. I think in MMA, it's going to continue to evolve, right? You now have.

Uh, the ability can Connor do that? Of course. I think Connor is one of probably the only person could carry his own show. It's very difficult to do, right? It's hard to go. How many name tape review sellers are there in either sport? Not a lot. You know, it's like it's, it's not that easy to do. So I think that from a, from a UFC perspective, they've always looked at it as like, look, we're, we're building something that's sustainable and they are correct in that regard. But I think that

fighters definitely should have a bigger piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow, which I think they've come a long way, but they still have a long way to go, right? Yeah, I was going to say, you know, the other group that's trying to do their own shows is the kind of Jake Paul Logan Paul style thing where they're doing these kind of like

kind of celebrity matches, high interest fights and getting people to buy paper views for that seems to honestly be working. Like, you know, like, I don't know what you think about those guys, but I personally used to be like, Oh, you know, kind of wrote them off as just like, kind of like, they were like in the jackass crowd of like the YouTube generation of the fine generation. And then they said they were going to do this boxing thing. Who knows how seriously they'll take it. But honestly, like,

They've done a good job of actually building up interest and pulling these events off and being respectable, showing up very respectively, and winning several of these fights. You can't hate on them, man. You can't hate on them, maybe. You're putting me tied. Actually, our client, Dylan Davis, is fighting Logan Paul coming up. Dylan Davis is your client. Oh, my God. That is so funny. Are you the genius behind his current marketing strategy? Is that your, did you sign off on that? No, no, no. That's all I'm doing.

I thought you might have been his client. There's a there's a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dylan are getting into it and Nate there was a beer on Dylan and I saw you in the video trying to be like the the father and the whole like you're like hey Nate, Dylan, if you guys please walk away. Is that good?

Didn't work out my kids didn't listen, you know But no, I you know, you got to give those guys credit I mean look I think they're they're they're putting in time in their crafts They're they're going in there and and they're not only you know taking a shot risk it You know I could argue that they're not really doing it against real box. There's that's true You know, I think they're being more strategic and but you know again credit has to go to

Connor, right? Who created that trend? Who started that? It was asked versus Mayweather. And then now, I mean, even if Floyd goes and fights someone else, he doesn't get the same result without it being another two, two A side guys facing each other. And while I give all of them credit to, I don't think you've seen this blockbuster event that anybody's been hoping for. So at the end of the day, you know, there's a market though. There's an appetite from a consumer to go look at, you know,

Me and you, Sean, I don't, I think we may only get a hundred people that tuned in, but nonetheless, there's a market there. I don't like doing it on YouTube. Sam is going to have to pay. You underestimate how many people want to see me get my ass off. It's like why, my friend. I think you're right. You're right. So what are the, they've been begging to get counter in that there. I think that that's the white whale that Jake Paul is chasing. What is the percent chance that a fight between Conor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens?

I mean, right now, Connor is focused on Michael Chandler. I'm saying, I can tell you Floyd, Floyd's rematch is there. Logan Paul wants to fight him. Jake Paul has a lot of possibilities. Not zero. It's just not top of mind right now, right?

You need to take off your sports jacket. You need to have a proper 12. You need to like, I want the non-pulk politician to answer that. You, you, you managers are so good at saying the best of everything. This is funny. It's like, I wonder if I just wore friggin street wear and, you know, and, and, and, and, and dyed my hair and bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young punk rock kid. And, you know, if everybody would really just hear what I'm saying to Steve, it's not bullshit. I'm just telling you the truth. Like, if he's going to fight Michael Chandler next, right?

It's not and we're not thinking about that. You know what I mean? But ultimately, of course, we know he wants the fire. Of course, we know it's there. And of course, I think if everybody keeps doing their thing, it's going to be a market for it, right? So let's talk about the biggest of these freak show fights right now is Elon.

versus suck. And it was one of those things that like in our world, like that's never happened in the kind of business and tech world. And then daily comes out and kind of certifies that he's like, no, they want it to happen. We're talking to them. We might make it happen.

Yeah, but he always does that. Well, exactly. It's Dana White. So you never know. But, you know, it was interesting that it got a little bit more heat from that. What's your take on that? And again, same question. I don't know if Dana would have gone on a limb if he hadn't really talked about, right? I mean,

Well, I'm sure he talked to both, but I don't. I don't think that he would have done that. You know, and, and even Zuck training with frickin, you know, a bunch of different fighters, Izzy and bulk and, and John Jones and, and then Elon bringing in GSP and do you believe it'll happen? And if so, I believe Zuck would be down.

Yeah. Catch rate, whatever. It doesn't matter. Yes, I agree. I think Zuck is down. Zuck is truly training and regardless of this fight or not, he's in there. Does that mean you think Elon might not be down? Because that's our theory here on this podcast is that Elon wants to talk about it.

Look, from the outside looking in and all the information that I have, which is probably less than what you have being in the tech world, you guys have some frickin secret telegram groups and shit. Who told you about that?

And dude, for knowing you or knowing what I think of you, you're probably gonna be managing them. I mean, I'm like... Yeah, I'm definitely gonna pursue them, you know? Because as long as we get some rights, not just transaction, we gotta build something together, you know? But I think it's up to Elon. I truly think it's up to Elon, you know? And I don't know. Do you tell you what's that? Dana came out and said, if it happened. They probably looked at the numbers, though, for both X and threads, they're like, this is great.

the

Floyd Pacquiao. It would surpass Floyd Connor. He thinks it would be that because it's just like, you know, the freak of all freak shows in that sense. Like it crosses over into so many different like fan bases or domains. You get all the combat force people, but you'd also get the business people to watch. I think so. I think so. And I think

It would also be the satisfied ever. Yeah, it'd also be really lame to watch. It was actually, it was actually kind of fucked up the way Eli was all about it. And then all of a sudden, it's like, it's not going to be the U.S. stage, it's going to be charity. Like wait a second, you can't play along all this fucking time. And then, and then all of a sudden pull the rug, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Did you see the video of him curling a 40 or he had like a 20 pound or 40 pound weight at his office and he did a live Twitter where he was, he's like, I'm curling to prepare. It's like, no, I swear to God.

If you think doing curls at your desk is how you prepare your this is not gonna be good You know, I didn't see that. That's funny. That's hilarious. I want to ask let me ask you about some other slick guys So basically a lot of people who don't watch the UFC they don't know that

So Dana's the front guy, you know, he's doing a lot of the match setting and he does all the talking and he seems like a wonderful businessman but the Fertita brothers interest me most because they were I think I think Dana only owned like four or six percent of it when it sold but the Fertita brothers moaned most all of it besides some outside outside money because they were already wealthy but they seem like those guys they don't do a lot of interviews and they're a little bit behind the scenes. They seem like sharks. Have you learned anything interesting from

the two brothers and Dana about business. Well, so obviously, look, they sold their business now, right? Endeavor ended up, you know, way worse at the time, they bought it. But I had the pleasure of being able to, you know, deal across from Lorenzo Fatida on

particularly on a couple clients, particularly Connor, obviously at that level. And they're very savvy businessmen, very, very composed. The dynamic when I'm on the opposite side, naturally, it's adversarial a lot of the time. And so at the end of the day, I'm advocating for my clients. So I'm not their best friend. It's not like they're going to invite me over for Christmas.

But we did have a respectful relationship, and I really enjoyed dealing with someone that has been not only successful in our sport and a pioneer in it, but was a super successful businessman in the casino business and other businesses as well. You learn from the interactions and the dealings and the negotiations that you're doing. For example,

When, when Mayweather McGregor happened and we, we basically got what we were achieving or striving for from a negotiation, like Connor and I really, we had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo's office and we were like, fucking did it. You know, it was like a moment, right? And so do you guys like keep a straight face until you get to the parking lot? Yeah, you get like giddy. It's our hug and it's it.

Well, in the meeting, in the office, you have the smirk, you know, you don't get away like, right? And then, yeah, when you get into car, yeah, you celebrate, you know. But yeah, man, I think it's the human shit. I think that's what people don't realize. I mean, it's like, it's the same in all sectors, all sports. And even the most composed person that doesn't do any interviews, I'm sure have had those moments in their own, you know, journeys as well, right?

I read on front office sports, I think it's called. It's like a sports publication that the final exit for proper 12 was $600 million. And I think that was only four years after you started it. Is $600 million in the ballpark? Three years. And I can tell you, listen, if it's probably printed, then you've got to go with that because I can't necessarily comment on the specific numbers, but we're still involved too. It's not.

You know, at the end of the day, it's, it's, we, we're still, you know, part of the team, we're still pushing it to grow the brand. We just came out with a new flavor, our Irish apple flavor, which is amazing. Um, you know, dangerously amazing too. Cause I, you know, you just, it, it drinks and goes down so easy. Um, but yeah, man, I'm, I'm super proud of that. Was that, was that like a new level for you? Wealthwise and what? I mean, or were you able to make money a little bit along the way? You know, I think that was a whole nother level.

That was a whole nother level where you're able to achieve your ultimate goals, right? But ultimately too, you're proving your concept. Ultimately, we're not having to go sell the platform. We're creating liquidity events by creating opportunities left and right. Not just for clients, now we're creating ventures that are creative to the platform.

a smart basketball technology called Hoop. We have some other adventures in the pipeline that are coming out that are very, very much focused on advocacy for the entire sport and creating something. But we're putting our own capital in these things to create opportunities for everybody else, right? And there's other things that we're creating specifically for our clients, right? So in lieu of

of, you know, having the opportunity to invest or, you know, an athlete, not maybe not having the brand equity to go start the whole venture. How can we bring them along the ride with us, you know, for the next proper 12 is, if you will, right? I always like to ask people this because

I remember, you know, when you start out in business, typically you have kind of nothing to your name. And you've got this. Literally nothing credit card debt. Like nothing. So you start at zero or usually you go below zero. You dip below zero for a period of five below zero. Well, then the funny thing is, and this is what people don't appreciate. Like my wife now, she was my girlfriend and she had a job and we were literally back now credit cards. And for the first seven years of paradigm, I didn't take a paycheck. I was paying.

team members and staff before I was paying myself. And I think people lose style of that, you know? It's like, but then when you have huge success, you still try to do right. Take care of people. But even that's sometimes no good D goes on punished, right? But ultimately,

It's a war of attrition. You have to be able to withstand all of it and really believe in what you're doing. And, you know, eat shit sandwiches daily, right? Under way there. You know what I mean? You eat these shit sandwiches for your case, seven years. In my case, I remember like sort of eight or nine years straight of just.

Like in my case, it's just kind of failure, but like in your case, at least you were building it up And then you finally have the moment where it's kind of like validated realize a payday comes in you get a windfall along the way and

like financially sure that's exciting and things change at a logical level. But before it hits the logical level, there's kind of the emotional level of like, what does that feel like? What thoughts go through your head at that time? We had a guy come on the pot. He's like, dude, I used to just every day for the next week. I just drove to the bank and I would just go in an ATM put my card in and say print receipt, because I just wanted to see it. And he's like, I didn't even have anything James Hong. He's like, I didn't even have anything I wanted to spend it on.

He's like, I was just amazed, I was just amazing to look at that because I knew the seven year or whatever the years that go into not being there, not having that. And we had other people that are like, you know, oddly numb feeling. I didn't feel anything. And other people are like, you know, I had a conversation with myself. I said, all right, now I'm here. Here's this pivotal conversation I had myself. So I always.

like to ask people about that moment because I think there's usually something interesting that happens. It's not just like just another day. So it's surreal to me because on one end, it happened there in COVID. So it was a weird fucking time for all of us, right?

You know, you get there and honestly, it's like you're pinching yourself. And you know, because it's a new age, you don't have to necessarily go to the bank account to print the receipt anywhere. You can just look it back. I surely did not a few times. It's like, what? But also, like, you have to make decisions. Like, we hired more people. We gave people raises. We gave people bonuses that had nothing to do with that part of the business.

And we invested back in the business. And so I was, first thing I bought was my mom applied my house in a car. And so I was trying to really

you know, stay grounded, you know what I mean? And more importantly, like try to do right, you know, as best as you can, for those that are important to you, both family and on your team, right? And ultimately, still like, just enjoy the moment. And because we were kind of everybody locked in at home,

It was, you know, every night it was for my wife and I was just surreal. And it's like, you know, then you start to think about, okay, well, do you tell your kids? Do you not? How do you raise them right away? How do you make sure you keep them hungry and humble? You know what I mean? It's not about that. A lot of things change, right? Because it's like you get there and you start to realize you've got to start planning, thinking,

and and acting differently. But then also other unintended issues start to come up. You know, like, you know, what was that? Well, money, more problems is true, you know, at the end of the day. What problems? Just a lot of different things. I think people want shit. People want shit on a free. People think that they deserve shit. I'm an appreciative people, no matter what you give them, you know, they just

Unfortunately, have a self-inflated view. I think there's a whole list of issues that come up with it, right? That's the reality. But you got to take the good, the bad, the ugly, and just keep rolling to bunches and level up and evolve. That's what it is. I thought you were going to say you had a red panty night. I was waiting for it. We said it for me. I did.

And you had two bites of the apple right if I remember correctly like I think you guys did you guys sell a portion of the of the business early on and I think you sold half of it and then yeah another I don't know if it was the half or the rest or another big chunk Yeah, right. Yep. Was it a hard decision to sell or did you have 600 million reasons? I mean

It was, I mean, look, first of all, it was an amazing time. It always affects the fact that we're still part of the business, so we can still keep making a lot of money into the next decade or longer at the end of the day. Because it's always difficult to think about, oh, what it should have could have, right? But you've got to be able to count the fortunes of it all.

get grounded in that positive reality. It's not a negative thing. It's very easy to always Monday morning quarterback something like, oh, we shouldn't have sold this and this and that. You have those regrets, which I think is normal, by the way. I think most people who, maybe most, I think who they sell. If you sell it right, you tend to sell early.

That tends to happen. I think the way we structured the deal allows us to really, can not only made a ton of money, but which has continued to make a ton of money. Ultimately, have I had those stocks? Sure. You always think about it. For me, it's more so. Okay.

It's what execution, right? So not only do we execute, but then how's how do the deal? How's the terms? How's this? How's that? And, you know, so I'm kind of like constantly watching the film to make sure that I'm learning and growing as an entrepreneur because I'm not resting on my laurels either. I'm not done, right? And so I'm still playing the game while you play the game. You got to be.

able to not only celebrate the victories, but watch the tape back and see where you could have gotten better, right? That's the only way you're going to be the best at what you do. So I have a partner who, a business partner, who basically, he was, he was already successful before, but his second company, he was about to get a $200 million check for the sale. And it was a, like a, one of those like clickbaity websites on Facebook that showed like top 10 lists. And then Facebook changed the algorithm.

and the sale dropped from 200 million to like 30 million. And it was just a massive issue because of platform risk. And there's a lot of fear of platform risk. Do you view Connor as like your platform risk? Like if he really, because he gets in trouble sometimes, he gets accused of a lot of stuff. Sometimes maybe he actually did do it. Sometimes he didn't do it. Do you get nervous about platform risk with Connor of like, shit, if he does something really bad, I'm fucked.

Yeah, well, he's been accused of a lot of things and he's never been that's best of the facts, right? But obviously there's always risk and everything. And I think when you look at, you know, such a, you know, Connor's kind of like an enigma, right? And so there's certainly going to be those that may be diverse and not want to do anything. But at the end of the day, whoever gets involved with us understands the regular brand, right? And understands inherit risks that potentially come with that.

Ultimately, they also look at the track record and that is always going to win the day, right? Because you could make all these claims, accusations, whatever, but ultimately,

with the facts of the facts and the results of the results and the data is the data. So I think when you look at all those things, some of all parts is why we have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners and we continue to incubate and launch other exciting businesses around the kind of brand. For me, he's the biggest client. He's also the top 1% pop culture brand in the world. So it's like unless I go inside the other people in that small

bucket if you will. He's always going to have, you know, that, that let's call it.

you know, proportionate risk value across my platform, right? But ultimately, we're also, you know, much more than just one client and we're building something that for me is into the future, right? John, do you see what happened with Barstool? So basically, Barstool Sports sold to a betting company, a pen. Yeah. And I don't remember the final sale, 600 million plus Dave made a killing. I think you got in stock, nothing, right? Let us stop.

Yeah, he got a lot of stock. I think he got some. I think he was able to sell some. I know I know that the on Wall Street, you could see that he did sell a little bit. And he basically after three years, Pem was like,

shit you guys are insane like you're it's really hard for us to do like because we're regulated as a casino it's really hard to let you do what you want to do without hurting us and ESPN wants to do this big deal with us but they won't do it for with Barstool you know what Dave here look just have the company back and if you ever sell it again we get half of the profit cool and in exchange we're gonna do this ESPN deal which is gonna boost our stock we're good

It was like the greatest coup of all time of like, you know, Dave getting, Dave selling it and then them just saying, here, actually, we don't want this. You know, maybe we have a world where the buyer of, of proper 12 is like, Hey, this was cool and all, but you know what? You could just have it. It's yours now. You got to have it. I think I was brilliant. It's a great move for him. And I think he still has Penn stock too. So then the stock rose over and he went in again. So.

Good for him. Yeah, that's an interesting sector where we're getting ready to enter. I'm interested to see what they do with it now, right? Boss tools and see what they end up, who they end up partnering with to try to get that off the ground.

You probably, I'm guessing you kind of studied other people who had talent like this. Like I don't know if you're in a group chat with like scooter Braun and like, you know, Don Chihidi or some of these managing, you know, the sort of the big scores, those same top 1% kind of like people who can move the needle. John's a, John's a friend. And don't know scooter, but John's a friend. Who's John? What's his last name? The guy who manages the Milk Boys now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And stuff.

Yeah, so he's he is probably he is he is like a dozen or so of some of the top podcasts and personalities, you know, he's he's a he's a he's certainly an entrepreneur respect

And so you kind of studied them a little bit. If somebody was studying you and they see what you're doing with Connor and how you built, like, I'm just going to name them off. So you did a whiskey brand, proper 12. You have Netflix documentaries and like entertainment that way. You have Roadhouse, which is like a new movie coming out. You have the August McGregor, the suit lines, you have title, which is like those recovery spray. You have the fast app, which is like fitness, like app, plus I think like Jim's coming or whatever, like, you know, something like that, like a fitness brand that obviously fits.

There we have actually have an event-based competition coming with three, called 3K0. So that's going to be, you know, think of Spark race meets meets meets CrossFit Games, you know? Very cool. So you have that you have, I think it's like a mobile game that he's in. You do like kind of the celebrity fight with Mayweather. There's all these different

things you've done around that person, that brand. And I'm sure some of them worked amazingly and some of them probably were too much work for what they were worth. You learn as you go, right? You're not, I doubt you, you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had everything right from day one. No way, right? So if somebody was studying you or somebody had, you know, it was, it was, it was with the next McGregor, it was with another star creator.

Would you, what would be your kind of like advice to that person? How would you advise them based on your learnings of the last 10 years of trying to figure this out? Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, I'm still learning, right? I'm still learning. I'm still growing. What I would say is, you know, you have to be ready to, you know,

not only dream, but act on those dreams, right? And come prepared from a research and preparation perspective, building out a plan and be fluid because it's not always going to go to plan, right? But if you're prepared and you do have a plan, you're

you're likely to execute, even if you have to deviate a little bit, because you have to stay fluent with what reality hits you with, right? You have to also have to fix skin, man. Like at the end of the day, it's a war of attrition. You're gonna eat shit sandwiches.

daily for a long time. And so you've got to be able to withstand that with a smile, but be able to see through all the noise, the pressure. And more importantly, have that ability to communicate with that with that client, right? Because you guys got to stay in sync in terms of what you're building. I would say, you know, one of the things I wish that we've done, build a team around you that's more experienced than you, right?

Because ultimately, I think that that's what's going to allow you to accelerate your plan as opposed to bringing people and then having to deal with other things like those people turning on what we're wanting to reason or not. How big is the paradigm team? It's still boutique. So we're about 15 on the whole co-level, but then every brand co if you will has its own expected team, right?

And what I would also say is don't stop innovating. Don't stop trying to create new opportunities that have to align with your client organically, but you've got to make sure you're able to clearly define that.

What's your criteria? So like you've gone into these 10 different categories. How do you pick which category to go into? What is it just? Well, it has a line organically and they have to have a genuine interest because you can't sell something at the stake. I mean, everybody thought and it's another thing. Everybody thought profitable is going to be a gimmick.

until they tried it. Obviously, you don't drink, you don't drink, but if you try it, you're going to be, oh my God, this is great. Make sure we created a substantive brand, right? It wasn't going to be just something that we just put his face on it and try to sell. And that's important. I know to him as well. And that's why he believes in

and the ventures that he's involved with. He's very passionate. But they're of substance as well. They're quality. So you have to understand the market. You have to understand the players in the market. You have to understand how you fit in and how you can disrupt the market and grant market share.

And you have to put a plan together that allows you to have a higher probability of success with the black belts that are going to help you operate the business, you know, and then having all the other components that are making sure that you could actually build a product or service or substance.

By the way, did you ever consider just putting his name on it? He's like, you have like Jameson or Johnny Walker or Jack Daniels, like McGregor's name is so famous. It's interesting. Well, that's taken. It's taken. We didn't think about that. But actually, there's the McGregor clan. I think it's a Scotch. I'm not mistaken. So that was certainly considered. We also considered notorious Irish whiskey at one point. Right. And, you know, again, even earlier today,

, and

Um, so it was, you know, proper number 12. That just made sense for the brand. And again, after pivoting several groups and finding the, the right partners, you know, we came up with the brand together and Sean and I are big fans of, of words, you know, like we'll hear someone say something and we're like, Oh man, the language they use was beautiful. That was really good language, whether it's writing or just someone talking.

The cool thing about Conners, he's got a beautiful vocabulary and beautiful timing and beautiful phrasing. So he uses wonderful words. And so I remember when he was fighting Jose Aldo, he would talk about if this was another time I would storm your pavilla. And then he talks about what he would do to them. And the whole red panty night, he just has really funny, catchy phrases. I guess Trump did this too, where he just really catchy stuff.

Are you guys ever just shooting the shit? And you're like, oh, that's a line. We're going to have to use that. He's very natural. They go back to the acumen. I mean, that is stuff that it's not rehearsed. It's very much stuff that he just comes up with. But we'd be there and he station started like, that was hilarious. That's another that's another McGregor ism. You're like, put that in the bank. I have two fan service questions that are around that. Number one.

Well, during the Mayweather press tour, which was just like a big thing. That was so much fun. But it looked like because all UFC press tours are the same. You go, you sit and they ask you questions and then you react. Whereas that one was like, stand up and give a speech. And it almost looked like Connor was almost ambushed. Like, oh, I just got to give a 20 minute improvised speech in front of millions of people right now.

was that an ambush, I was wondering, no idea what the format was going to be like, and Sam, yes, it was exhausting at the time. But just thinking back to it, anytime it kind of comes up from whether it's the, you know, anniversary, whatever it may be, it was such a great experience, man, and it was like once in a lifetime thing, because

You know, Sean, there was no format. It's your point. I don't know if you saw ambushed, but certainly we're like, oh, how is it for this one? How is it for that one? Right. But the energy of all of them was out of this world. And so I think that they fed off that energy, which gave them the ability to deliver these legendary lines.

answer back and forth. I remember watching it and it was clear that he was like, wait, there's no fucking questions. I just have to, I just have to go. Okay. I'm a comedian now. All right. Do it back. And he said this line. He goes, you know, they, they've tried everything. They didn't tell us the format. My microphone doesn't work. They're trying to put me in a uncomfortable situation, but they don't know. I thrive in uncomfortable situations. I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech. I really love that line. That was great. But I also have another kind of fan service question on almost the other side of the coin.

So as you can tell, me and Sam, both fans of you, of the UFC, of Connor, we really take a lot of inspiration from some of the... It's just a badass thing to go out there and just fight and put yourself on the line like that every single time. There's something to be admired on that for sure. And I think Connor came in with a very...

Uh, like at the beginning, how could you hate the guy? Like he was, he was bold. He came from nowhere. He was like, you know, this guy who was like a, you know, apprentice plumber. And then was like all of a sudden beating everybody exactly this way. He said he would his fighting style was electric. Like there was nothing to dislike about the guy I thought on the, on the come up. Uh, I'm sure some people did, but like the majority of fans I think were, were, were on the come up were just like, this guy is incredible. And then there's sort of almost like a heel turn now where, um,

I know a lot of people who I watch fights with, they sort of feel like he's kind of jumped the shark. Like, oh, you know, now he's this like, first of all, he's like super jacked now in this huge way. He's like more of a boxer. He's, he hasn't fought in a long time. You know, he talks trash. Maybe he's crossing the line too much or he's getting in trouble. Like there's all these things that honestly, like I know he's your client and he's your friend and probably never gonna say a bad word about him. But I think there are some fair criticisms that like, you know, it's understandable why somebody who was a super fan might now feel like, ah, you know,

I can't really get behind everything that I'm seeing here. Do you think about that at all? And do you, I guess, what's your reaction to that? I don't really know how to phrase the question, but I feel like you're one of the few people on Earth who would have an opinion about this that I would really care to hear.

I mean, look, it's just like you are engaged with these conversations naturally. I'm going to hear everything, right? From people around me, you know, whether it's my friends or their family. And ultimately, what I'll say is this, like, you know, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. I know who the person is. And obviously, I do have an intimate relationship. It's something that's more than just transactions, more than just a client, a business partner.

Someone that I'm, I'm, I'm well tuned for me. And so at the end of the day, you know, I know that history, once it's done being written.

will be interpreted by everybody differently. He's definitely not perfect. He's definitely made mistakes. A lot of the criticism, too, is subjective. It's based on where you stand and what you believe in or what you want to see, et cetera. But, A, never been legally all those accusations.

have not been legally found to be true, right? B, it was a cleanest and the most tested athlete before he got the shot of pool. And when he returns the fighting, he's going to do it the right way and everything's going to be legal. So everybody can say what they want to say. There's nothing that was done wrong, right? And so he's constantly being vilified because ultimately the stuff that they loved him for, he still does. They'll outspoken. They'll says what's on top of his mind. But maybe because he has

the riches now, and it's not the rags anymore. Sometimes we try to tear some people down. I don't know why. I can't tell you, right? But ultimately, I do know, who's in the pudding, he has to continue to go out there and show that he could continue to evolve, be the best version of himself, not just athletically, but as a human being as well. And ultimately, that's on him to do, and I can't do that for him. You can't do that for him. But

Criticism is gonna come and when you're when you're in the public eye You got to be ready to take it on and at the end of the day heavies the head that wears the crown You can't just want the good and not take the bad with it. So ultimately That's something that we constantly talk about something that I know he says I say to him We talk about he understands that but it doesn't make it easy It doesn't make it easy gives ultimately it's like you know

You know, you talk about that, that aha moment. I don't know how many entrepreneurs you've had on this podcast, but when they have that big moment, they don't need to be seen by everybody. They're probably enjoying it with nobody watching them. Or if they go somewhere, nobody really recognizing who they are, right? Myself included. So ultimately, it's very different. And that doesn't, you know,

essentially absolved him of the responsibility that he has to take upon himself, in certain instances. But more importantly, it makes me understand the pressure is real, not only to win and succeed, but on another level to live your life so visibly for everybody to just critique every little thing. And today's world, man, everybody has an opinion, you know? You guys, before you met me, you thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared visibly to you without ever talking to me before, right? So it's like,

Very easy and fast judgment based on whatever your belief system is how you're raised your experiences with someone that look like me whatever it may be or your opinions of agents just because you watch I'm drawing some followers But I can't change that ultimately right and so when you live in today's world like that for everybody to critique man It's gonna come with not just the good but the bad and ugly as well and you got to deal with it

I like the fan questions, you know, this is, it's fun. We've had Ariel Halani on here. You know, we've become friendly. We've been asking and I think we've talked to Mike, Mike Bizbing. We've talked to a bunch of folks. It's, you know, Sean and I are super fans. So it's always fun to like get like the insider. How many fights have you guys been to in person? I've only been to three or four. You've been to.

The in-person event is definitely like the best in-person sporting event. But in my opinion, if you're like a nerd and a true fan fan, it's so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on, and to see like the replay of the Sean Malley knockout on Saturday. Like it was really awesome to be able to like see it close up. There is one challenge with UFC, which is that the cage and the cameraman on every post of the cage

does kind of screw up the viewing experience depending on where you're at. Like, I'm sure if you're right next to the right ringside, maybe you don't have that issue. But like, we went to one event at the Vegas place, the one where Mosvidal need aspirin into like, you know, the next realm. And

And, you know, the guy, I saw it, but the guy next to me, like literally couldn't even see the thing. It was like a split. It was like in the first five seconds of the fight. And secondly, like, you know, just because of a cage, like if you go to a football game or a basketball game, it's open field. It's, you know, it's very easy to see what's going on. Whereas you're almost watching on the Dumbo Tron.

Well, it's interesting. First of all, I think, look, there are pros and cons to your both of your points. The energy of a big fight is something else. It's electric. I mean, just the walkouts and the crowd and you feel it. And then you hear the thuds and, you know, it's like, it's, it's pretty, pretty amazing.

I was at Jorge and Nate, and it was like spectacular. But it's just nice to be able to like, you gotta go home and watch the replay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then from a view perspective, to your point, unless you're like the first few rows of the floor, it's actually the mid-low riser, which is the perfect view, because you're looking into the octagon, but you're still really fairly close. And I think that's the best view live, right?

Nonetheless, no matter where your seats are, I think for big, big, big events, the, the electricity in that place is something else, you know? So what's going to happen? Like I'm following this whole circus with Dylan Danis and Logan. I have, I've never even seen Dylan Danis train. I went and watched his two Bellator fights, but that was like years ago. What's going to happen? Like, I don't know. I've never even seen spar or anything on like leading up videos. What's going to happen on that? When said August, it's August 14th.

Logan is obviously has a leg up having, you know, box before, right? Yeah, that was years ago. I think he's bigger. No, listen, listen, I get it. You know, the fights actually scheduled October 14, but, but. Oh, October. Dylan has made all the necessary.

necessary adjustments to his life, to his preparation, but this is his boxing debut. So he has to go in there and really prove it, right? Now, I can tell you the banter that's going back and forth. I mean, you know, he's confident in his abilities and he's definitely putting in the work. So ultimately, you don't make, you know, you don't take that position with the banter that he's doing if you're not going in there with the level of confidence in yourself, right? So

And I'm sure it's given Logan a little bit more training for it, right? Because ultimately, it's personal now, I would imagine, right? Oh, yeah. Not even Connor, you know, King of Trash. Connor wouldn't even, he never even went that far to talk about family. I don't like that he's talking about family, but I like it in the sense of like, I'm going to stare at it. I'm a kid on the internet and I think it's funny too. Yeah.

Yeah, like it's too far, but at the same time, like, but it's there. You know what I mean? I'm watching that. I think what's interesting is the, you know, love it or hate it. The engagement for that is to the roof and, you know, it should help show the fight. And more importantly, like it's about now performing, right? Because ultimately you can

talk all you want. Now you've got to go in the phone, but he's made all the adjustments to his life personally, professionally, which, which I'm very proud of him for doing that will give him that, that, that high chance of winning this. I think he's going to price and shock a lot of people. People are not giving him enough credit. And I think when he goes in there,

It's, it's his time to shine. Now he's put it. He's going to put, he's going to basically put his money where his mouth is because the mouth is getting ready is going to make people want to watch it. Love him, right? Well, you, you were kind of implying you're like, well, it doesn't matter unless he loses. And, uh, I kind of disagree. I think, uh, I think he's already won whether he loses or, or not. Like he's already got a, like, from where he was starting to where he is now, like, you know, he's already got the, it'll be okay. He'll, even if he gets knocked out right away, he'll probably be better off than where he was.

Oh, this is a great opportunity for him. No doubt. No doubt. Thanks for doing this, man. Uh, where should people follow you if they want to get more? Just, um, my first and last name at audio tar Twitter Instagram threads, um, X. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. At audio tar X, at audio tar threads at audio tar Instagram. I think one of three still remain.

All right, Bobby. Thanks for doing this, man. All right, Jess. Sean, Sam, thank you so much. Appreciate it. And that's the pod.