Master of Me: Keke Palmer Reveals How She Took Control of Her Life & Story

So hey, guys, listen, we're all trying to get more productive. And the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth-based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love growth day.

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Before I get into the show, I just want to say one thing to you. You know that all of my content is free. I put out hundreds and hundreds. It's now thousands of hours of content for free. But every once in a while, I do something where you can participate with me one on one or in a group. And so I've only done this one other time in my entire career.

and it sold out in about 10 minutes. But this year, if you're watching this before 2025, I'm recording this in 2024. On December 12th, I'm doing an event, a group event in my home, very intimate event, less than 30 people to spend a day with me. You can go to maxout2025.com to get the information. It's not cheap, but it's a day with me. I'm going to take you through my entire 12-step system I've used for the last decade to plan my life and my year. So if you want to make 2025 the best year of your life,

You can come to me and you can be in my home with me with a very small group of people for an entire day, but take you through that entire system. I'm also going to go through all the mental programming techniques that I usually only teach my one-on-one clients. So very limited seating. It may even be sold out by the time you see this video or hear this audio, but it's December 12, 2024 in my home, maxout2025.com.

Welcome back to the show, everybody. Today's a great program already known in advance because I finished this woman's book the last couple days. And I got to tell you, it is something else. You're gonna, you're gonna make a major impact with this book, young lady. And I'm so excited she's here. She doesn't really need an introduction.

I mean, she's one of the most famous women in the world. She's got 20 plus million followers on social media. She's only one in Emmy. That's no big deal. Singer songwriter, producer, author, TV host. But she's kind of like a voice for this kind of millennial generation as well. She's also the CEO of Key TV, which is a digital network, record label, big bosses. Give me a break. All this is a very young woman.

just crushing life. And she's got a new book out called Master of Me, the secret to controlling your narrative. Kiki Palmer, great to have you here today. Oh my gosh, good to be here. And I love that very charismatic introduction. Yes.

Well, it was all real. That's the good part. I don't have to lie. So you know what? We got like an hour on this show normally and I cannot wait to ask you so many of these different questions. I'm going to frame the first one because you guys, this is not like a normal famous person kind of wrote a book with some stuff in it. This is deep.

and it's going to affect your life. It's real work and she's very vulnerable in this book. Let me tell you something about me. I'll meet you in the middle on something. I had an alcoholic dad, drug addict dad who got sober later in my life. But one of the things I confused as a little boy and I think a lot of people confuse is I conflated recognition or significance with love.

And I think a lot of people have it. Where's what I mean by that? If I brought home a report card that straight days, I got love. If I had a home run in baseball, I got love. So performing equaled love for me, if that makes any sense, right? Yeah, of course. And I think a lot of people growing up get sort of wired this way. And as I read your work, I'm like, man, even the first chapter of the book, you talk about performing as a young person and getting affection for it. Just start talking about that and how it shaped you and whether you think that's a good or a bad thing.

Um, yeah, so I remember being a kid and entertaining and feeling like it was a way to bring my family into the present. Um, you know, growing up, living in the kind of circumstances that I lived in, you know, parents didn't really have time to think about much of anything other than survival. They don't, they're not really that present. That's how I often felt. But there were certain things that we would do as a family that would bring them back to the presence. And one of them was speaking about how my parents fell in love.

art films and TV. And so me when I realized that I had a knack for that, I really loved it. Yes, because I loved it, but because it brought my family together, it gave us something to to engage with in a big way. And then when I started, you know, being a child entertainer and all that kind of stuff,

The biggest stress that I had coming out of that wasn't like that I was sick of performing, but that I had now put our lives into place where if I no longer work again,

what happens that you know what we going back you know I kind of became afraid of failing or having anything go left because I felt like I had this huge responsibility of them on my back and even if they would say oh no it's not like that I knew deep down I was a smart kid I'm like well if I stopped working guys we put everything into my career so now everything is into my career this desert

high stakes. And so that's what the issues began for me personally, dealing with being this high performer, as well as other people, business people in my life, constantly making me feel like I should feel away about my circumstance. What do you mean by that feel away? What do you mean?

So like I would have people, and I talk about this a little bit in the book where people would make me feel bad for being the financial breadwinner in my family when that's just how the cookie crumbled. And what I mean by that, just how the cookie crumbled. I mean, you know, in order for me to be a child entertainer, people forget like your mom and dad have to take you to the audition. They have to study your lines with you. They have to prepare you for these things. They have to take off orgs. Sometimes they can't have a job because they're flying across so they can be with you in Montreal because you're filming a movie with William H. Macy and you're only 10 years old.

So it's like my parents had to give up a lot in order to be there for me to be able to have this career. And so a lot of people would pervert that into your parents are using you. And you know, just want you for money. And you know, you shouldn't be carrying your whole family and judging my parents because they never been fancy folks. You know, I have family parents still to this. They were my mom's most expensive thing. It's a designer bag. You know, my dad's nice car. He only got one car. It's a it's a

But like I bought off of a used lot Mercedes, you know, my parents are just they always trying to get things up for the low low but growing up in the industry where a lot of people are either Misunderstanding your culture and how you got to where you you came, you know where you are Or they're just trying to be manipulative so they can have power and control and authority over you So it was a lot of people misrepresenting or trying to misrepresent to me at a very young and a personable age My dynamic with my family, you know when the truth

me and my family did this together, you know what I mean? Like this is something that it wasn't just me on my own that made this happen. It was them sacrificing as well. Well, you, by the way, everybody, you may not know this. This young woman got nominated for a lead actor SAG award at 10 years old, youngest ever, just so you kind of have some perspective on what we're talking about here. Okay, I want to step out for a minute.

By the way, a lot of people feel those kind of pressures from their family. Some people's pressure is different, but, you know, their mom and dad want them to always be a certain career. And now that they're in their twenties and thirties, they're in that career, but it's not their dream, their dream, something else, but they're trying to live for their family. So a lot of this family stuff is a dynamic. And I hope I'm allowed to ask you this because

I think when a lot of people look at you, you have this command presence about you that we'll talk about a little bit later. You have this thing. Certain people have the thing. It's more obvious than some people. You have the thing. It's easy to look at you. You've had all this success from literally almost birth. You've been successful.

So I started to research you a little bit because perfect people, there's always something in there, right? I know I had it, right? You know, mine was my dad is drinking. If you don't mind, Tom, because I just think it'll give people hope that they can see you as more like them. But something happened when you were a little girl with a family member, if you don't mind touching on us, your face just changed. So okay. Yeah, because I got because I felt like this is serious where you were going. Now, now we're going to get.

Welcome to the Ed My Let Show. So would you talk about that a little bit? Because I think for you to have to overcome, you say something about it. I'll let you say it. If you don't, I'll ask you about it again. But if you don't mind sharing what happened and what impact have any it had on you?

So it had tons of impact on me. So when I was a kid, I grew up in a very paranoid household. Like my grandmother, she was actually assaulted by her uncle growing up. And so whenever we heard about, we were very hyper-aware

being abused, but the concept in which, you know, or molested or improperly touched, it was always built around an adult. Like it could be family, but it was always an adult. And so for me, when I experienced being exposed to sexual activity at a very young age, it was through a cousin, you know, I mean, I was like five and my cousin was probably like only three years older than me. So she was also a young person.

And I remember just feeling, it was too much. It was what you feel when you have been molested or you have been improperly touched or something has been introduced to you that you shouldn't have been introduced to. And it really plagued me. For like my childhood, I felt a lot of shame. I felt like I had over sexualized thoughts. I felt like I didn't know. I just felt everything that you would associate with having been sexually abused. But I didn't know to put those words to it because as far as I knew,

being molested or assaulted or raped or any of these things had to be an adult. It usually was a man. It was like all these specific things that was my experience even though I had these, even though I had that feeling and that emotion. And so

When I was around 12, I was in school, you know, in your school, you're reading different kinds of books. I think this could be, I don't know what book it was, maybe in physical education or something like just a regular book. And I was reading and they had an area in it about sexual abuse, sexual assault. And they mentioned what happens when you have been molested, particularly. And I said, well, these are all the symptoms and all the responses. And in that moment, I kind of associated what I had experienced or what I had

um started to think and feel not with self but what had I had been through I realized oh this is a natural it's like if you get a cut on your arm you know the scab is in response to that it's not just you and so I think

You experienced abuse in that way. Like I remember being so young, like when I was like five and, you know, me and my family, we always was in church and all I knew to do was pray. I just pray, pray, pray. When I tell you I, it was crazy. I'm so glad that I had something like that in my life because I, as a little bitty girl, was way too many emotions and I didn't know how to, and I didn't know how to tell my parents. I didn't know what to, how to, I mean, I was little. And so I just remember, I pray and I said, I remember being like five or six years old being like, God, remove these thoughts, remove these thoughts, remove these thoughts.

stuff for me. And then eventually they went away and then I didn't revisit that place again until I read that book. And you know, I remember I just kind of ran in there to my mom and told my mom and I don't think she understood exactly what I was saying. But that was the first time that I had uttered anything like that.

out loud and put words to it. And then after, you know, and then I think for me, what I'm learning and why I spoke about it in my book, you know, why I speak about any of the things I experienced in my book without sensationalizing the event.

really is to say that when you experience trauma, it's not about dwelling on the things you can't change. Because I think I used to wonder, like, who would I be had I not experienced that? Would I be different? Would I be this? Would I be that? You know, it's not about that because I'm never going to be different. I'm never going to not be the person that experienced that. So what I have to then do from that is learn as much as I can about what it means to have experienced that. What can be the effects of that?

What am I attributing to me that is actually an attribute to that experience, whether I'm nervous, concerned, feels shamed, unsure of who I am, who I want to be, my choices. All of that can be in response to that. And so I wanted to speak about it because I think so many of us have either been traumatized and we don't know.

or traumatized and blame ourselves, we experience so much in this life, it's like you're not gonna come out unscathed. And so the quicker that we can start getting into the dialogue of that, the better it is, especially with these kinds of situations, because when I talk about it, people will say, like, you know, since I had spoken about this, which, you know, I spoke about it in my first book, but I think that it's, maybe I talked about it in more detail in this second book, or just I've had more conversations out loud about it, but a lot of people say, I remember that.

know what I mean or oh yeah as a kid they will call it playing house or this happened to me too or you know and it's again it's some of these things that we don't bring light to especially in a community where your parents are working all the time and people don't have a moment to stop and kids are not being watched these are the kinds of things that can happen and when you think about like that was at the age where cinemax was one click away so now you have kids

having access to stuff on TV and then they're trying something out and you know what I mean? It's like all of this stuff that we just we just haven't spoken about.

You're right. I'm really glad you did. I think you said something before. You just said they're like, you may not even know something happened to you or why it affected you. Like what you said, you didn't even, it didn't fit the picture of what being molested. Man, it wasn't a dude. Wasn't like your uncle or some dude in a van. It was another young person. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting. The reason this work matters, y'all listening to this.

I'm reading near stuff and I've always had this I can't believe I'm saying this on the show today, but I'm gonna say it Somewhere in junior high had this weird incident with a coach. I was changing in the locker room

I'll never forget this. Like I was changing and I won't say the dude's name, but I was changing and I was the last boy out. So it was just me and him. It was after a game. And I remember him like coming up and kind of like tickling me. You know what I mean? Like funny tickling me by the door.

But you ever have like something in your life, everybody like, I remember that. And I can't quite process right now why I remember that. And I'm 53. But there's a damn reason why I remember that. And maybe I blocked something. Maybe it was just that violated, but, but.

I'm just giving you one example from my life, everybody. And it's worth sometimes just evaluating your life. Why does that stand out? Like, of all the things that's ever happened to me, did something more than that happen that day? Was it just a violation of the dude was to, but the point that I'm making to you is you could have some trauma in your life and just awareness that something was wrong or like, I know now at 53, I'll be running up tickling some 12 year old boy, like, you know what I mean? And it's underwear changing.

you felt that it was a boundary and roached upon. And it's as simple as that. And it could be different areas of work based off of whatever that felt like. You know what I mean? That's the thing I think a lot of time we

we think what we experienced have to be what we've seen in the movies. And the movies are just trying to illustrate the emotions and the feelings of what we experienced in real time. You know what I think I look like a lot of times it doesn't. It takes us as a delayed response. I mean, you know, I've been raped before, but I'm thinking to myself was I, in the time I'm not knowing because I'm thinking, well, this is my friend and we were hanging out, but

This drink that they gave me, I don't really feel the same. I feel like I can't really move. So what happens as a more dope person, you look back and you say...

Wow, this is what happened. And I feel like it's so important to express and speak about these nuances on these topics, because we are so afraid of hearing these words. We're so shocked when we hear these words. And we think that when somebody experienced this or how somebody experienced this is what makes the experience valid. You know, you could be in an abusive relationship just because you don't have a black eye doesn't mean it wasn't

abusive. You know what I'm saying? You could be raped just because that was your friend or your husband or your boyfriend. It doesn't mean that's not what happened. You know what I mean? And so I think molestation just because it was not this adult or this crazy, enraged situation. It doesn't mean that you were not improperly touched. And so, you know, it's important because I feel like

So many of us walking around, hair looking good, makeup on point, attitude out the bag, and you would assume that nothing have ever happened to them. Or you don't even remember that something happened to you. And so I think it's important and I, yeah, I feel like it's like one of those things where you just gotta, we gotta say, hey, you know, these things can happen and how do we move forward from that?

Well, that's why the book's so good. By the way, so thank you for that. That was one of the coolest things we've done on the show in a long time right there than what you just said. By the way, I'm really sorry that...

you know, some dude violated your trust like that. It's just disgusting and horrible. Um, and a lot of times when those things happen, we, as a human being, we go, what was my part of it? You know, should have been sitting so close to him, shouldn't have, you know, no, someone's not supposed to do that. Right? That's, that's not you. That's them. But the reason this matters is self-awareness is just a huge part of success and happiness. Like, okay,

I kind of get why I'm the way I am. Now, you don't have to spend your whole life in analysis, right? That's not the case. But kind of knowing yourself is important. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, this month is all about gratitude. And along with everyone we're thankful for, there's another person we usually don't think enough. And that's ourselves. We just get lost in the shuffle, don't we? So many times. Sometimes it's hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense of everything. And in this crazy world, that is not always easy. And BetterHelp can help you with that.

Therapy can remind us to slow down and just take some stock of how things are going in our life, how far we've come. Maybe it's some trauma we need to work for from our past. Maybe it's just getting clarity and focus on where we want to go. But therapy's helpful for, you know, all kinds of things, learning positive coping skills, setting boundaries. I think it just empowers you to be the best you. Better helps great because it's done entirely online. It's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. All you got to do is fill out a brief questionnaire.

You get matched with a licensed therapist. If you don't click, you can switch it anytime you want. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Ed Show today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ed Show. This show is sponsored by Delete Me. So listen, I've had my identity stolen multiple different times in some crazy situations, crazy situations.

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It's an interesting title to book, Master of Me. There's a lot of connotations with that, by the way. But why did you call it that? And what does that actually mean? Because you've clearly, to some extent, mastered you with all of these things in your life that have been successful and really didn't even have a childhood, like a normal one. So what does Master of Me mean and how does one begin to do that?

Master of me the reason why I chose master of means because I was thinking about like I got the power You know and I was like what would be in my birth like you know, I feel empowered I feel strong I feel like I'm in the driver's seat of my life. What would I call that mm-hmm

And I thought to myself a master. I feel like I'm a master. I'm the master of me. And I was kind of like brainstorming because I was thinking about what I wanted to call my book and what this era of my life represented. And then that in itself kind of sparked my personal dialogue with me on.

going deeper into why and how I got to this place that even with every crazy situation, good, bad, be in between that I've experienced, it was the mastery of how I dealt with that. And that's kind of what we're talking about before, you know what I mean? But it goes through every aspect of your life, whether it's personal and intimate relationships or working relationships or externally living and existing in the world and whatever group that you feel

you know, attaches whatever kind of concepts to. It's the way that you master existing in that that allows you to move forward in life because you cannot master other people. You cannot master the world. You can master how you live in it. And I think for me as an entertainer, um, you know, I was often put, especially as a kid, often put in this, no.

I knew from the beginning that me and my family had a plan to get up out of poverty. And I had a skill, I had a talent, I had something I loved, but the real gift was bringing people together. And I never ever saw the last stop being just entertainment. I always saw it being something greater because entertainment just feeds me. Being a performer just feeds me. And I can divvy that out as much as I can to my community. But there's something greater there that I can do with the ability to bring people together.

Because that's really what I do as a performer. I bring people together, whether I'm hosting a password and a family is hanging out or I'm doing a movie that can heal in the bee and you don't even realize there's a sports movie because it's so built into community. Whatever it is, I'm bringing people together. And so for me, it was important to say with this book that, you know,

This has always been a part of our program. There was never a point in time where I was not aware or autonomous in my decision to maintain in this industry, to do my family business, to work hard like this, to be key, keep a back farmer, you know what I mean? The person that is hustling for something greater, I'm not a puppet. I'm the master.

And I think that's so important. I always felt so irritated by that as a kid because people kept seeing me like that. It was just so hard to come back because you're a kid and everybody thinks they know the answers and it was just too much. And so I think dealing with that and experiencing that and then also experiencing that just as like a black person and a black woman and everybody always is just like, went, went, went, went.

And it's like, no, no, no, not win, win, win, win. I know what's going on. I know who you are. I know what you think of me. It doesn't bother me because I know who I am. And I might use what you think of me against you and get further because of that. So no, no, no, it's not that way. And so for me, I think that was a big aspect of what I wanted to make sure was in the book from my personal standpoint, but also to really illustrate to anybody that

You are control of your narrative. No one can tell you how you choose to feel about something. And the reality is facts can be there, right? If the fact is, you know, this is a cup, but what how I feel about that cup, that's up to me. So I don't choose to believe this is a cheap cup. I choose to believe this is a cost effective cup. This is a cup that allows me to drink the same way a glass cup would, but I chose this one because this is cost effective is biodegradable. You know, you get to decide and you feel about it.

Let me ask you a question. I want to stay on that. I want to pretend I know something I don't. So you went there, weren't, weren't, weren't, weren't thing, right? You rubbed your eyes. If people listened to it on audio is what you were saying there that it could be true that there's a, you're not born on third base, but the fact, so you can accept that something's true, but not believe that you're a victim because of it. Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Because we all up against something.

You know what I'm saying? I can tell you about me, okay? I've experienced some harsh things. You know, I grew up as a child and a tainer. I'm a black person. I'm a woman. I'm, you know, whatever that you could say that would be like, ooh, that could be tough. But instead of looking at those things as things that make my life harder, I look at what make those things unique that make my life better, that make me sharper, that make me think differently, that give me a different perspective that makes me

or ahead in the next person because they don't have my life experience. And I think that's important that we all do that and it seems really difficult. But that is how you master yourself because what mastering yourself truly is, is mastering your mind. It's mastering your mind and deciding how you choose to think about things. Look, I don't know when the lights cut out if God is going to be standing there saying, Kiki, welcome baby girl.

I don't know, none of us know, because ain't none of us died and came back. But if I've got to think about and believe something, I don't believe the shit that makes me think something good. I want you to believe something that's going to make me get up and keep going every day in this matrix that we got to live in.

Oh my gosh, in my book, I'm not comparing books, but I have the second chapter. My book is about that matrix. I call it the matrix. I use the same term. And I talk about your mind, even a part of your brain called the RAS, which we're not going to get into today, but like I completely agree with you on that. And so you use the word narrative part of my work is I really believe that we as humans will do everything in our power to live

incongruency or consistently with the story we tell ourselves. Yeah. And that's so that thing you said a minute ago, I don't want it to slide by everybody. It would be easy to say, well, I'm a black woman. I was young. I had this. I had a sexual issue when I was young. And so because of that, I'm, I'm out of the game. It's not going to win. Or in my case, not to this, not the same extent, but I'd welfare when I was a little boy. Dad was a drug addict and alcoholic.

Not the same thing, but I could make my own story up as to why I'm okay justifying being average and ordinary or screwed up myself. So that part of the work in the book is about this narrative. What's one thing you wish every human being knew? That all the heroes have promo. All of them.

That's why narrative and storytelling is so important to me. People want to know why Marvel movies are so popular and even more popular now is because people feel like, yeah, my aunt passed away. I didn't have my parents. I'm an orphan like Harry. I'm a so-and-so like whoever. I'm an outcast like Deadpool. I don't fit the system.

Whatever it is, that's the point of it. It's hard to believe sometimes when you're living in that, because your mind is telling you, everything is telling you that you're not the one. You're not going to make it. But Oprah Winfrey isn't Oprah Winfrey because of who she is today. She's who she is because of who she was. And that small town before she could believe that she was going to be Oprah Winfrey. She was the girl that went through all that trauma, all that hardship.

And you know, that's what makes us, that's what made us love Oprah's because she was somebody that was imperfect. And anybody that you love, anybody that has become inspiration, Tyler Perry, he lived in this car for years in New Orleans, okay, grew up in a hard home, didn't have a lot. And now he's one of the richest people in America. So it's like,

That's the truth. The truth is, and I remember being a kid and looking at entertainers and saying, when I thought about what I had gone through, so and so went through that. That means I'm amazing.

That means I'm going to be great. I would actually believe, tell myself that because of any of the hardships that I had gone through, what I had been through, you know, that that's why I was going to get where I was going. Because that's the truth about heroes and people that do something greater than themselves. It's because of the, it's because of the trauma that is that optimizing of that, of the hardship that brings them to the, to where they are.

Oh my God. So good. I told you this is like just talking to some actors that wrote a little book. You know what I mean? Like this is this is the real stuff. I wonder. I know it's in the book, but I'm going to phrase it a certain way. You kind of as an actress and I have enough friends that have done this young that have become, you know, been in the industry a long time.

You, it's easy to become like a perfectionist in your industry, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. And the pressure to be perfect. And if I, there's one thing I see costs most people their dreams, forget acting, forget singing, forget producing. I'm talking about life. It's this notion that they're going to wait around to get started until they're perfect or they're afraid of making mistakes because of perfection. And your point now at me like you agree if you're on the audio. So will you talk about that for a minute?

Yeah, that is the most crippling thing in the world. That is overdue for crippling. And it's like, you know, it's what we call when we say like perfectionism really is the fake face of procrastination. And I try to fuck up all the time that that's actually how you get where you're going to go is through trial and error. You have to do the thing. Like I remember thinking back when I first started doing like my dance videos or even when I started doing Lady Miss Jacqueline, it's this character that I do on my social media.

And people will be in the comments like, what the f*** is this? Because it was like tricky looking little videos at first. Then eventually it went from like a little sketch to like a full length story to then a book with Amazon to then a one one. They have gone so far, but I'd use that as an as an example here to say like, if I would have just said to myself, Oh, it ain't perfect. You know, I can't do it. Waiting for the money, waiting for the crew, waiting for the, I don't even know that I would have never

I had a moment of growth. You know what I'm saying? Like people have to be ready for growth. You have to have the opportunity to do something so then you can look at it. You can read. Okay, let me figure out how to do this. How to be a better producer, how to be a better writer, whatever the framework of what it is you're doing. If it's a product, you know, if it's a book, you got a right one for you can tell yourself it wasn't good enough. So I think it's like people have to know that

You know, it's like one of those things where it's a part of the process. You know, you cannot beat the process. You have to actually go through, you know, and learn and watch and see, you know, that's to me like a big part of it. So in my mind, I think I've always had a really good support with my mother.

Always reminded me of this, where it's like, just do it. Just do it. If it doesn't work out, you don't have to put it out. And if it does, then that's good. And also I speak a lot about investments. I think in the book, I talk a lot about being an entrepreneur and that that doesn't always mean you're sitting on a bunch of cash. I think the conversation around entrepreneurialism has to change because

You do need to be an entrepreneur in this day and age, and it doesn't mean you're sitting in the office of a building that you made. It's not this big, gigantic thing. It really means a diversified portfolio. And the reason why you need this is because you need to have personal autonomy and not feel completely crushed by the capitalistic overlord that we're all existing in.

But if you have multiple avenues for work, it makes it easier to say no to things you don't want to say no to. And those multiple avenues don't have to be desk jobs or they can be. You can have a nine to five, but then do Uber on the weekends or you can, you can work in a hair salon part time and then go work as a teacher's aid is what you know, it's about I'm working right now in a movie and my prop guy also is a substitute teacher.

He's an entrepreneur. That may not be places that you're thinking when you're thinking entrepreneur, but that's an entrepreneur. And the reason why you have those jobs is so that when you do want to do something that you're not 100% sure in, you can weigh the cash balance for the investment. And you can say, well, if I'm going to put

$5,000 into this idea, I have that to lose. And I can have a backup job or this backup thing. And I know this plan is going to happen. And when I get my money's worth, if it's a picture, a painting, a movie, a short film, whatever it is you're doing with that $5,000, you can look and you can see and you can weigh the options of how you maybe are going to get your money back, or if this is going to be a proof of concept where you can go get some money from somebody else.

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See, one of my favorite parts of the book is this part, actually. And I want to ask you about that. Like for me, being an entrepreneur, I can't sing and I can't act. Well, I've done a little acting, but I definitely can't sing. And so part of my entrepreneurial journey, I've had lots of different businesses, but it's sort of like my art form, a way to express myself too. So like driving Uber, if that was my second, that's not, that's a way to hustle to generate cash, but

Like I also encourage people like, create a future for yourself. If you have a job you don't like, do something on the side that gets you interested, gives you passion, gives you juice, gives you the possibility of a brighter future, right?

Maybe it's a form of expression. Maybe it's a problem you solve. Maybe it's just something to keep you interested and get off a Netflix, right? But go do something. The other thing you're real about though, and I think a lot of people look at you or someone like you that's been successful in your industry and think, man, they're loaded. But there's stops along the way where most people probably wouldn't know you, you can have financial struggles and still be crushing in your career at the same time too, right? So talk a little bit about, so surprise people when they hear this.

You definitely can because this is, it's a business still. So what I mean by that is in order for my brand to be the Kiki Palmer brand, I employ a lot of folks, you know, as much money is coming in, is as much money is coming out. And so yeah, when I was about 18, 19, my cash flow and my cash out ratio work.

wildly different because I had finished a show. I was no longer having a consistent check from that TV show. But all the expenses I had from my house and my team was all still the same because, you know, as an actor, you're used to not having a job. But after a while, you're kind of like, oh, hey, a job should have come by now. And that's not what was happening for me. And it was really, really difficult. I had to downsize with my family. I had to rethink things. But I learned a very valuable lesson, which is, again,

At that time, I wasn't really living above my means, but I learned to live really under my means. Because when you do have an independent contractor job, when you do have a freelance job like I do as an entertainer, you only have a job if somebody hires you. It's important to live under your mean. What I mean by that is if you got $100,000 in the bank, your house should be $1,500 a month.

Yes. You know what I mean? That's how under I mean, because if something happens that you don't expect, right? It could be a health thing. It could be a, I'm just not getting booked. It could be COVID. Remember COVID, man?

You need to be prepared for that. And I learned that lesson. That was the biggest thing for me was learning to live in extremely under my means so that I could prepare for any weird thing happening and still have enough cash saved that if my cash flow was impacted, I would not suffer. Because yeah, I mean, you know, I think that when it comes to any industry,

When you are your own boss to a certain degree, you know, I have different companies that I work with, but essentially I'm my own boss. Yep. You, you. Well, you have to live way below your means. I just want to jump in on this. That's a book, by the way. Yeah. Because you're so successful already and you think so clearly.

I don't think, by the way, this is different if you're living at the poverty line. I get all that, even then you need to do it. But so I'm not talking about someone who's, you know, they're just trying to paint their apartment rent right now, no matter what they do, they can't scale it down any lower. I know there are people listening to the show watching it that are in that place. I have also been in that place as a busboy and a bagger at a grocery store. I get all that. Even then, stop with Starbucks. You don't need to have Netflix, like learn to save 20 bucks a month. But the thing she just said, you guys,

about extremely below your means is so counterculture. Most people live above their means or barely below it. And the margin for error in your life financially is so thin. It's just a matter of time before you flame out. You lose your job. Something happens. Go ahead. I'm saying that's way too dangerous. What you're saying 100% true and it's way too dangerous and it leaves no room for you to really

be in charge, you really then become a slave to the companies because you need the money, you have no freedom of choice because you don't have the financial support. And so yeah, I do think people assume because again,

If you're not thinking from that point of view, you would not understand how somebody with, let's say a million dollars, how that could not really be enough money if they have their own business. You know why? Because if they have a place where their people can come into the office, they're planning the bill on that.

They're playing the bill on their home. If they have a kid, they're paying for their kids to have everything that they need. Then at that point, that million goes probably down to, I would say, 700,000. Then they have the taxes that they're going to be doing. That 700,000 immediately goes down to like 300,000, 400,000. And then from there, they've got to pay all the people that they're working with. So it's like that money goes faster than people assume.

You know what I mean? I think when we hear these big numbers, we immediately assume that means that that person is profiting all of that, or you know, people go online and they look at all that net worth, and they assume that that's what that person has sitting in that bank. That's not the case, at least not for, you know what I'm saying? No, it's also true when people say, I exited my company for 80 million. Okay, how much debt did they have on it? How many other investors were there? And you hear these stories online? They exited for 100 million. I'm like, they got four million bucks.

Okay. Yeah. And that's what I tell people. That's the difference between reality and branding and publicity. You know, our thing, I didn't speak on it too much in this book, but like public is honey, they wanted the best author when it comes to narrative storytelling. They'll tell your absolute tale. And you'll believe so. I remember when they did the essence cover for Raven, and she always talks about how they said she's worth $400 million. And she was like, the part they forgot to say was Disney.

was worth $400 billion with my brain at me. And it's like, that's the thing where we see all these, you know, tabloids or headlines and we assume that that's exactly what it is. But anybody is one of the realest things ever talked about on my show is what we're telling her. I've never heard this covered on a podcast ever. Like the amount of people that you think have a lot of money because of what they make or what they exited for is so grossly incorrect. By the way, I'm about to do a podcast and we're done here. I'm shooting a solo episode. Check this stat out.

There's very few people in the country that actually make a million dollars a year. You're talking about like half a 1% ever make a million dollars a year, right? Guess what else is common with that group of people? Seven times or 10 times the amount of bankruptcies as the people that don't make a million dollars a year. So they end up going bankrupt more often than people that don't make a million bucks a year. So the reason all this matters, you guys, why are we both telling you this?

You may not be as far behind as you think. There's some real realities with being an entrepreneur. And if you live extremely below your means, go ahead. I want you to finish that thought extremely below. You're setting yourself up to succeed. You're setting yourself up to succeed because even some of these companies that you think are rich, they're trillions of dollars in debt. So it's like.

Don't let that be a marker for where you stop or the, you know what I mean? Like these, again, this is a part of the process falling, but it's getting back up again. It's always the recovery that makes everything the difference. It's not what happened. It's how you recovered from it. So good. You guys got to get the book, by the way, you got to get the book. And by the way, I'm going to give you the title of it again. And then I got like a couple more things I want to ask you about. This has been so good. So grateful they just happened today. What sign are you? I'm a Taurus.

Okay, one of my perfect matches. Earth sign. I'm Virgo. There you go. Oh, I actually tore us in Virgo. Our good matches. I haven't even told that before. Master of me, you guys, the secret of controlling your narrative and the narrative controls everything. Okay. Part of the narrative though, I don't think people don't, you know, you get a little hate when you're not doing anything. You use the word backlash in the book. So once you try to kind of break out from where you are in your life, by the way, your industry's like,

Oh my gosh, probably worse than anywhere with backlash. So like, what would you tell somebody who's like, all right, you know what, I'm gonna start mastering my life. I'm gonna step out and do something. What would you tell them about what's coming if they do from other people?

just people putting limitations on you. And the most time, I think we, the best part that you can do is not take it, take it personal. And I know that that is like a flea shaped thing. Don't take it personal because it feels personal. But you really do have to resist the urge because when you resist the urge and you're able to inform yourself on the real reason as to why they're responding that way.

And then now that weight is pushed off of you, that it's no longer being projected onto you. Because what they're actually projecting onto you are their limitations. What do I mean by that? Well, if I've told myself all my life that because I'm this and because I'm that, I'll never be anything and you become it, well now I have to be accountable to me.

So now I have to tell you something that's going to stop you, that's going to thwart your success, that's going to make you question or second guess for the simple fact that I need to know that I didn't waste my life believing the lies that people told me. And so then at that point, it's kind of sad. And then you have compassion in them, you can wish them well and you can move on. Because that's usually what happens. I've realized that. And I've gone through it many times in my life where

my jumping into a new thing and me being a multi-hyphenate or me deciding to um host and also be a you know a actor that is currently that is steady working that apparently not being possible or not being okay you know all those different things i've experienced people telling me that for whatever reason they weren't gonna work or they weren't gonna be possible or this wasn't thing that wasn't thing but the other thing you have to remember too is that nobody

knows what your journey is and what you're headed to do. People don't have the idea for you that you have for yourself. And that's why your relationship with the companies and the people that you work with has to be very clear on what you're coming there to get. Are you coming there to get a check? Are you coming there to build a relationship? Are you coming there to build a relationship and get a check? Are you coming there to get in good with the company that they're working for? What is your angle?

And so for me, my angle has always been to build a brand that I can establish enough to get access points that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, unless I went to some Ivy League college so that I could really be, you know, the boss of something. So I could really be able to extend my brand to

help my community to build greater narrative stories that could help uplift my community. It was always to be from an observer's standpoint. I never wanted to just eat Mickey Mouse. I always wanted to be Walt Disney. So when people would be talking to me about what I needed to do and what they were thinking that I was trying to be,

talent. So you're wrong. My dreams are so much bigger than what your dreams are for me. So that's the other thing is, you know, A, people are projecting onto you their ideas and their limitations. B or two is

People don't know what you see for yourself. So, or trajectory, your timeline, your path is built by you. That's your personal blueprint based off of where you're trying to go, not where they think you should go. I mean, a lot of people there, their highest goal for me was to win an Oscar. I don't need to win an Oscar. It's great if I win an Oscar, but that's not, that's not my, that's the goal for somebody that maybe just wanted to be an actor and even just a really profound dramatic actor, I guess.

Because it doesn't mean what it means to you that it means to me. I would much more rather be somewhere in a position where I can give opportunities. The opportunity that I needed. You know what I mean? Being a real position. Not be the player on the game, but be the coach. Be the actual owner of the team. That was my thought process.

Well, that's what you're doing. What do you think makes people happy? I'm just curious. You and I are both blessed that we know a lot of people that a lot of people think they would want to know, right? And one of the things that kind of struck me a little bit is I started doing the show and getting to know people. I don't know that people with a lot of money are any happier than people without

What do you think, one, do you agree with that? Did it surprise you, even as a little girl, when you would meet some of these actors or whatever, producers that kind of, their attitudes, their real happiness level at A, and then what do you, what makes them happy? What makes people happy? I 100% agree with you. You know what I mean? Money takes away some problems that maybe affect your happiness, but money does not make you happy.

and I remember people always would say that too about like dating and stuff like they get you a man that trust me the man that make a lot of money is a asshole just as much as the one that don't you know people are people it's an individual thing it's not about the money they have in their pocket or not um so I think a lot of things make people happy one thing that I think makes people happy that we're missing a lot especially in in these times where yeah people want to make it and

It's pushing a real, you know, when I say a capitalistic mind, I'm meaning like a super like independent mindset, you know, set where you're just thinking about yourself. And again, this society, the level of poverty that people are living in, I understand it, I get it. But what really makes people happy to meet one of the things is community.

a real sense of community, having people that you sacrifice for, that sacrifice for you, people that you love, that you care about, that y'all are going through things together that have your back and you have their back. It's like the Ubuntu philosophy, I am because you are and you are because I am. This sense of communal love, I think we need more of that and it's lost its fight to the top.

you end up on that mountain alone. And that's why your acts is unhappy. I think another thing is people sense of value. People are happy when they feel value. But because we live in such a consumerist, you know, again, Western culture and everything is told that happiness is outside of us and in value in attachment to that is outside of us.

But that's not true. You don't necessarily want that outfit or want that new body or want this new thing because you really want it. You want it because you want to fill a value. And no one can really tell you this is when it gets difficult right on what makes me happy is only you can figure out what makes you fill a value.

on a real level. You know what I'm saying? Like, you want to fill a value in your beauty. Well, that might be dependent upon you and how you're loving yourself and giving to yourself. Not just like what superficially, but truly, are you doing the things that you wanted you to do? You know, those really big questions that I think a lot of people don't want to ask that end up making them just make

the easy way, the easy cut. Okay. Well, really, it's not because I got to do this in a work and I got to be accountable to me. It's really because I need that new hairdo. It's really because I need that new makeup. It's really, they're just easily going towards something that's going to be a quick pacifier to the real deeper issue. So the sense of value, which comes from building self-worth and esteem and choosing yourself in every scenario, I think that's also what makes people happy.

Yeah, and I think, yeah, an accountability, which is again, a lot of these aren't connection to itself, but being accountable to oneself, that's always gonna make your ass happy, always. Yeah. Yeah. When do you, let me ask you this last, by the way, I've enjoyed this so much. We went a little bit deeper than even I knew we were going to. You're outstanding. You're just- So are you. So are you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Are you happy? And when have you been the happiest in your life? Like truly, like right now, are you happy? And or is there another time you're like, I was most happy then? I do honestly believe that I'm the most happiest in my life right now. And the reason why I would say I'm the most happiest in my life right now is because so much terrible happened. And what I mean by that is

When hard sh** happens in your life, it's almost like a situational accelerator. It pushes you forward. Shout-outs to Boots Riley. He gave me that word.

Um, because that's, I think it forces you to be real, either you cannot be real or you can accept the task and be real and see and look at what you needed to look at and learn. And I think for me, I went through a lot with after having my son and just, you know, being, having so much pup things out on the public. Now, if you would have told me any of that would have been happening or I would be sharing or talking and experiencing any of the things I was experiencing in the last few years, if you had told me that at

16, I would have been like, oh my gosh, I killed myself. Like I would be mortified, horrified. But because I embraced the reality, you know, and I did not go back, I said, what is what is God showing me? What is the universe trying to show me? What do I have to learn? How do I lean into this? How do I move through this? How do I accelerate through this situation and come out on the other side? You know, once I did that, I was happy.

I think that brings me to another thing. It's like not lying to yourself. You cannot love yourself. I don't care if you lie to other people. You ain't got to tell them all your business, but don't lie to yourself. Do not lie to yourself. And I think this is a situation that, again, turning 30, being 31, experiencing all these things, I think it would have been real easy to just lie to myself. Yeah.

but I didn't lie to myself and that was me being accountable to me and that made me feel of value. You know what I'm saying? Then I had my community and they showed up for me. So I had my community. I had value based off of the way that I was showing up for myself. I was accountable to me. I wasn't lying to me and I'm happy. Now, does that mean that I'm always smiling and that every day is a perfect day and I'm always in a good mood? That's not what happiness means. You know, it's still an ocean at the end of the day.

really what I feel is contentment and I feel security in my life and I feel gratitude in my life because of the thing I'm going through. I'm able to sit back and be thankful and be grateful and know that life is gonna be filled with up and downs, but because I know who I am and I have my family, I'm always gonna be okay on the outside of it all.

You're exceptional. Like I could listen to you all day. There's a way that you speak that I really like listening to, but I really like what you say. And your level of wisdom, I mean, you're an old soul with like a young spirit. I mean, just the level of wisdom at your age, like,

If you're not all watches, you know who she is. But like, you're about a young woman here to have this much wisdom. You just lived a lot in 30-something years. You've lived a lot. And it's obvious. I also just want to tell you, just because I do this part of this for a living, you need to be on stages speaking too.

Oh my God, that's just an honor. Thank you for saying anything. Thank you for all the words that you're saying because, man, I gotta take it. This is the type of stuff I love to do. You know what I'm saying? Like when I'm acting or whatever I'm doing, it's a version of me being able to bring us to these kinds of conversations. Like, this is what I live for. What else, what else are we doing if we're not talking about this? You know, we got to talk about this, man.

Yeah. Well, you're capable of it. What this today was was a situational accelerator for a whole bunch of people who listened to it. I'm stealing that for sure too. So Kiki Palmer is exceptional. I already knew that as an actress and as a person who can sing and produce, but like this is totally different level stuff here. So thank you for today so much.

No, thank you. I'm coming back in person, man. You got to make sure my seat is ready. We got it. I told you. I told you next time it's mandatory in person. All right, y'all go follow her on social master of me. Go get it the secret of controlling your narrative. It's so good. You can tell by the way, we barely touched on the book. So there's a bunch to go read as well that we didn't cover here on the show. God bless you, everybody. Max out. This is the environment show.