If you listened to last week's show, you heard Carl come on and talk about some horrifying experiences he had down in Central America about 45 years ago or so. Well, the encounters took so long to share, we didn't have enough time for me to ask any questions about those experiences, so luckily, he agreed to come back and answer some questions for me tonight. Having said all that, let's welcome him back in here now. Carl, thanks so much for coming back.
Well, thank you, but we really appreciate your time. Carl, since we have that conversation, you uncovered a lot of things that weren't easy to think about. Did you have a lot of trouble with sleepless nights since that last conversation or did it go fairly well? I had some sleepless nights after our conversation kind of brought everything back up to the front again.
My wife helped me through some of it and I saw and talked to a priest about some of what was going on in my mind. It was basically some nightmares and some PTSD revolving around not only the dog men, but also some of the things I was involved in down there that I kind of question my own faith on.
I can't believe I did some of that stuff. But anyway, the priest was helping me work through that and you and my wife were helping me with the dogmen. And to be honest, I think if reality is to be spoken, I'm probably more afraid of the men in black than I am the dogman. I can understand that. And you just mentioned your wife. You sure do have one heck of a support system. She sure sounds like a great woman.
She is wonderful and as far as being wonderful. She was a Baptist teacher for many years and she's very well-written the scriptures and basically after my dying and seeing starting to go to hell as a wake-up call that even though I believe so strongly in Jesus and He's my Savior as I found out from talking to the priest this week you
not being able to believe that Jesus could forgive me for some of the things I did in the interrogations. Well, that shows that even though I said, I believe in Jesus, I don't wholeheartedly believe in the powers of Jesus, if I can't believe it, he can forgive me. So he goes, that's probably was the warning from God that while you think that you fear God and you believe wholeheartedly in Jesus, you must not believe in His power completely.
Well, that's powerful. I'm so glad he told you that. He's right. Your wife is obviously a very religious lady. I know she's brought you closer to God, but did your encounters have any effect on that? No, I don't think at the time the encounters didn't have any effect on that because
I never really saw anything supernatural those things when I was introduced to them. I mean, the very first moment I saw them through a spotting scope, I was like, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was like, I'm being on the set of a movie. These things are not supposed to exist. And then the more we saw the way they acted and they were, you can tell they were a primary predator, an apex predator. And you can see how cunning they were.
how they could actually learn to learn to live off of the violence that was going on down there so heavily with such an unending supply of food when you consider how many people were being killed on a daily basis down there. It just kind of didn't say anything really so much supernatural in that as I saw them as more or less animals.
And after we overwatched that one time, killed that one with a shot through the eye sock, we're like, OK, well, these things are sort of like a grizzly bear. You know, if you want to bring a bear down, I had shots the way to do it. And we kind of thought about that way. But as I got a little older and so forth and then through some other bad stuff in my life,
It had it turned out that I became a stronger believer in Jesus, and I saw how many times Jesus had been with me, and I truly had believed that my entire life, that I'm never alone, because Jesus was with me. And it helped me down there. And I didn't really see that he was saving me from a dog then, but
Looking back, I'm sure he was. So I would have to say at the time, no, that didn't make me stronger believer, but as time goes on, yes, it did. Well, that's great. That's really good news. And for you to live through so many experiences you had down there, you must have had some kind of help, at least in my opinion. Well, right. I had divine help because
Like I say, we lost a good number of people down there that were in our squad and they just being surrounded by death everywhere and to walk out of it was a good thing. And something else that I obtained down there that was kind of a little gift is, I shouldn't say it was a gift. It was, I was injured by a RPG down there and it really, really hurt my hearing.
bad, going off in the wall right behind us and actually killed my body. But it threw me down and knocked out a bunch of my hearing after recovering a couple of months stage side and being able to go back. I had lost enough hearing that I could no longer hear the infrasound from what they taught us that these things produce.
And in for sound if anybody doesn't know what it is, the big cats like lions and tigers and hippos and elephants and all these type of animals that can make a big roar. A lot of times what's in that roars hidden. Hers of a wavelength of hearing that can caught in humans or in prey, whatever they're chasing.
it can cause paralysis, the fear of paralysis, it can cause nausea, it can cause feelings of unease. And a lot of times people say they feel a severe feeling of dread, or they couldn't move, they felt like they were walking in lead. Well, that's caused my interest sound. And the fact that I lost that part of my hearing was actually helpful to me as hard as finishing the rest of it down there.
I want to say in like a year and a half left. Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that happened. Yeah, I didn't know that you never told me about that. And it just doesn't seem fair. These things have so many advantages over us. It's not like they needed another ability that would give them the edge, but that infrasound ability clearly does.
Well, I say that's why I think that a lot of times I'm not saying that they'll never hurt people or they wouldn't hunt people. I mean, maybe they will. There's cases of what I'm sure, but a lot of times they play with the second cat plays with a mouse and then when they get tired, how many times you've seen a house cat just turn around and walk off and let the mouse run away. They're tired of playing with it. And they, like they said, they're kind of an arrogant predator and the fact that they know that
They're the top alpha predator, just like a lion out on the plains of Africa, that uses in for some. They can actually paralyze their prey momentarily. I mean, they're so big and strong and fast with claws and teeth. They really don't need one more advantage, but nature gave it to them. Yeah, they definitely don't need any more edges. You're right.
Earlier, you said some things that gave me the impression that you don't believe that they're supernatural beings. And if that's a case, if they're not supernatural beings, what do you think it was that you had that encounter stateside after you came back on that pull off that night?
Well, to be honest with you, Nick, I'm not sure if they're supernatural or have some supernatural abilities or something supernatural about them. I'm a senator to the question. I mean, back at the time, during the first time I lived through that down in Central America, I had thought that they weren't supernatural. They were just some kind of an animal that we were dealing with because we were able to kill one.
but the older I get looking back and hearing some of these things, there might be something about them and supernatural because it's just amazing how they, how well they understand the human being. I would almost have to say when you look in their eyes and you see intelligence in their eyes and I don't mean intelligence like your dog or your cat. I mean, you can, it's like looking at a person looking back at you.
And just because we don't speak the same language doesn't mean that they don't understand the human better than the human understands itself. So yeah, I would say there might be something supernatural to them. And we just haven't found out what yet. And we're approaching a species that's foreign to us. So there's been so many different types as well as different types of encounters.
It's hard just to draw a line down the middle and say, yes, this is it. Oh, definitely.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And understand, I'm not trying to say that you're right about this, you're wrong about that. I'm just posing questions for you that maybe hadn't thought about this or that in a particular way. So by posing this question or that question, it might open up thought passages and routes that maybe hadn't gone down before. So just wanted to make sure you understood that.
It is awfully ironic that here you've had all these encounters down there in Central America, and then after you come back stateside, years and years later, you have another encounter. What are the odds of that? So, yeah, that's why I asked you that question. But let's talk more about your wife. When did you tell her about your dog being an encounter for the first time and when you did, had she respond? Well, I want to say the first time was probably two years ago.
And that was just because I was speaking not a lot when I was sleeping because I've had PTSD for years and most of the time she couldn't understand me, but I guess it was probably maybe two years or a little over two years ago. She couldn't understand my dreaming a lot better or hear what I was saying, what I was talking about. And she overheard me on a telephone call then a couple of days later when I was
talking to my one buddy that lives in Illinois that had gone through, you know, was one of my squad team members. Anyway, after I got off the phone, she goes, there's something you'd like to talk about. And I says, well, yeah, I said, if you heard any of that, and she goes, well, it's been longer than that. And I said, what he means, she was even pretty vocal when you're sleeping and cooking all the covers off the bed. And she was, I got up and sat in the chair, so the figure had hit me while you were sleeping.
And she said, well, I told her then about the dog men down there, what I'd actually seen. And I didn't go into detail about a lot of the things today. That's between me and Jesus. But I did tell her about the dog men and about them eating the dead and following us around or following the rebels around us, knowing that there was going to be a gun battle. They'd stay back in the
And the jungle far enough that they'd wait for the humans to leave and then they'd swoop in and they'd start eating. So she was kind of mortified, kind of, couldn't believe it. At first, she, I mean, she believed when I told her, she goes, she was like, Oh my God, she goes.
like demons, and I said, well, I said, you look back at it kind of like demons, but I look at them at the time and still do, I guess they were just animals. And she goes, what started it off so bad that you remember these things. I said, Oh, it's when I walked in and your girlfriend was staying with us and she was watching that movie about vampires fighting werewolves. I don't know what the name of the movie is.
famous movie, but anyway, underworld, underworld. I said, yeah, some of the werewolves we don't look down there looked similar to those. I mean, not exactly, but they look similar. And I said, the scene droves of them attacking people and eating dead people. I said, they kind of just brought it right back to forth from my memory of my dreams, my everything. And so I told her the whole thing then and there.
And after that, we'd gone back to the Midwest, and we swung through Chicago and visited my one buddy and his wife, and he'd told his wife years ago, and the lady started talking about it, and his wife asked, did Carl tell you the same stuff? And she's like, yeah, and it matched word for word with what her husband had told her, and she's like,
Oh my God, she goes hard to believe that things like this on Earth exist. And my wife goes, yeah, she goes, but sometimes with as close as some of these monsters are on TV, it makes you wonder if the people that design these things or write these stories might have had an encounter of their own. She's got a point. Yeah, it does make you wonder. Does she see what she wanted to go hide some place to unpack all the things that you shared with her about Dogman when you did?
Yeah, she kind of, it took her a couple of days to decompress. And I was really worried after I told her that stuff and she was, why don't you tell me before? And I said, oh, because I, I didn't think you'd believe me. I mean, it's, it just sounds so far if I should like some made up story. I said, I didn't think you'd believe me. I said, I didn't ever want to create doubt in your mind about my sanity.
All those concerns are definitely understandable, but you had the experiences that you had and I'm so glad you got her in your corner. Thank goodness. How much harder do you think it would be for you to deal with all those experiences with dog men if she wasn't in your life helping you the way she has? Oh, it would be harder. I'd still be questioning my own sanity and
probably suffering from the PTSD that I did. I mean, that's kind of really gone down a lot. And some of the stuff that I have now is more, is more interrogation related than it is the dogman related. But I have this one dream sometimes at night that I'm in a totally white hallway.
And I'm chasing this little dogman down the hallway a little, and I'm trying to step on him before, you know, to wipe him out. And as I'm chasing him, he's getting bigger and bigger and bigger until we get to the end of the hallway. And he's huge. And then he chases me back down the other way, trying to get me and we go back and forth like that. And you wake up and you're so tired and it feels like you haven't slept at all. And the wife will tell him,
She'll go to me. She'll say, well, what were you doing? She goes, you must have been running somewhere. And I says, I was chasing a dog man down a white hallway. She was, why would you chase one of those things? I said, cause it was a little. And I was trying to step on him before he got big. And then he turned around. He was huge was chasing me. He tried to eat me before we got to the end of the hallway. And I got big. It doesn't make any sense, but that's what the dream is.
I can only imagine what it must be like to have a nightmare like that to look forward to because it sounds like that's a nightmare you've had time after time. That's not good. Have you given your wife any instructions regarding what to do if she has an encounter of her own at your farm when you're not your Carl? Yeah, basically I told her the same thing that they taught us in the training down there to
to kind of look down a little bit, keep your eye on it so you can see what it's moving. So look down a little bit and back up slowly. And if it keeps moving forward to you, just keep backing up slowly. And they don't, they're not afraid of the light, but they really don't like light. And we've got motion detectors on our barns and our motion lights on our house, our barn just as get back into that circle, if you can, to where
They'll have the big lights come on and then keep backing up. Now, she always carries, just like I do. And I've got a real high-lumen touch light on her pistol, too, so she can just touch it and it goes on. Super bright. I told her the same thing. I said, if you feel that the attack is imminent, I told her to shoot it in the eye.
not to screw around. If it goes down, get away from it, go lock yourself in the house. When I told her, first, first thing is try to lock yourself in a vehicle or in the house, because we live on the country. Our keys are always in all of our vehicles. I said, get in there and just get away from the farmer. It's all possible. Well, it goes without saying, I sure hope that never does happen. I hope not to, but
Yeah, there have been encounters all over that state. When we recorded last week's show, Carl, you told us how you were raised not to believe in anything supernatural or paranormal other than to believe in Christ and God. Do you think being brought up like that hindered your ability to deal with coming to the realization that dogmen exist or was a non-factor?
I think it was kind of actually a non-factor, I mean, because my grandma taught us all kinds of superstitions and beliefs, because she was very much into the spiritual world and a strong believer in Christ, but also, like she always taught us, there's an opposite for everything in the world, and there's an opposite for Jesus. And she said, that's what you have to be careful not to bring upon yourself.
Dad was the one that had no time for me that we had so many chores to do that There's no time for sitting around watching monster movies or telling the book stories of the campfire You know he's like you got time for that we can get some more work done today And I think that kind of made it a non thing because when the first time I saw those things I couldn't believe what I was seeing But at the same time I didn't take it was anything other than
some other, some kind of strange animal. And you gotta remember half the stuff I saw down in South America I'd never seen before. I was just some old country kid from up North America.
down there, we had crocodiles, we had tapers, we had birds all over the place that you only saw in zoos back up in the States. And so I just thought it was one more kind of strange thing that was just
learn about. So I guess I have to say that was really kind of a non thing. It's not until I've gotten older now and done a lot of soul searching and done some research on these things since I started talking to you. I mean, I've done more research on these since I started talking to you were slightly before than the rest of my life. I just kind of kept filing the back of my mind and hoping that a lot of my memories would go away.
Well, I'm so glad you did all that research because the more you know about what you fear, the less you fear it, so that's a good thing, it definitely is. When you were briefed on the rules of engagement, you were told that the dogman wouldn't harm you if you didn't threaten them. After what happened to that man on your patrol, how sure are you that that's accurate information about them now? Well, yeah, that's the thing, I...
I don't know what he did if he tried to drop beat on one of that, set it off, or was that a rogue dogman? I think it might have been a rogue, as the reason LT gave Overwatch the green light to go ahead and take it. You know, we were not allowed to fire on those things, and here he had Overwatch. I'll take that one. The one that we nicknamed, we used to nicknamed him the Dude, just because he was... Dark Blackwood, he had kind of a grayish.
Edge on the main on each side of me look like he was one of them old famous. We'll be stars weren't a tuxedo So we used to call him the dude, you know, I said we had a little nickname for all of them and the little brown the little brown one that was kind of a lot skinnier and It's hair look like you give it a ride inside of a dryer for oil or something the native one down there and
We used to call that one grandpa because it had some hair in his face, but not much of a lot of its hair in his face. So we used to call it grandpa. I'm glad you came up with all these names for them because that's another good tactic to compensate for all the fear. Why do you think it is so many eyewitnesses have been caught dead to rights by these things, Carl, but allowed to leave their encounters without suffering as much as a scratch?
Well, like I say, I think it's a couple of reasons. One, I think that more than anything, these things like the toy with us like a cat, like with a mouse, I think they get off on the fear that they instill in us, they enjoy it, because they are arrogant in the fact that they know that they are the top predator. And I also think part of it comes from two is us humans. If you look at us,
We don't have a lot of the meat they crave on us. I mean, they really love the soft organs. Now you take a deer, a calf, a hog, a wild boar, anything like that. Their gut sacs sort of call it as much, much larger than what a human says. And when they interact with the human, I think they're more likely to just want to scare us away from their area.
so that we don't bother him, because I think that they know that humans, if they have any interaction with them, it's not much longer. They start having a lot more and more and more interaction. And there's something we really can't get rid of. There's not enough meat on us to make us that enticing to them, unless they're starving or something like that. Or if we challenge their dominance,
Because that's like any animal, the animal came to include in humans. You want to see the ugly side of something and challenge its dominance. Yeah, thank goodness. They don't seem to be that interested in feeding on us. When we're alive, at least, it'd be a lot worse if that wasn't the case.
When you had your first encounter down there, you said that you saw six of them. It's bad enough to see one when you've never seen a dog man before, but how much harder do you think it was on you to see so many of them together when you had that first encounter? Well, I think it really helped drive home the point that it existed.
It when you see More than one like that and instantly takes it out of your mind that oh there's somebody dressed up like a like a wolf trying to scare everybody I mean obviously in an awards on there wouldn't be because there's be no point to it all you do is get yourself shot but You kind of drives home the point that they're real instantly I mean we saw that was the big alpha was to mid-sized ones
And then two little bit smaller ones. And then the one number six was the one we called grandpa, the little brown one, which followed them around, but he was a cast off and didn't get near anything until everybody was done. And I don't know if it was so much an organized path as it was just just an eating order. The big guy got to choose what he wanted. Then it went on down to where when they were finished and already moving off through the jungle.
and the little brown one would come out. But as far as the question goes, I think that it really helped drive it home and it was real. Well, seeing is believing and talking about that alpha, I can understand why no one else did challenge him after seeing how he dealt with that subordinate that stepped out of line.
You told us about the near-death experience you had in 2018, but I can't remember when you said you saw that dog man at the pull-off state side. Did that encounter happen before or after you had that NDE? No, that was after. It was after. Okay. The reason why I asked you that question was because I didn't know if you were aware of the fact that people who have had NDEs are more likely, it seems, to have dog man encounters than people who haven't. Did you know that? Oh.
No, I didn't. I'd never heard that. Yeah, it does seem to open up the gates. For whatever reason, I don't know. Now, some of the listeners, Carl, might be wondering why you'd want to live in the country after experiencing all the horrific dogmy in the counters you've had. What would you say to those people about that? Well, this sounds kind of a strange thing to say, but...
I've been generations in the country. I love the country. I wouldn't know how to get along a little bit in the city. And the other thing is too, what I saw in Central America, I think the humans, the humans are, I don't know, more degenerate than what the dogmen were. And I just after what I saw and experienced down there, I just
didn't want to be around crowds of people at all. And I liked being separated from people a little bit, knowing who my neighbors were, and having some space between me and them. And if a diver came across the dogman again, then I deal with that at that point in time. If him and I could coexist without taking it to a fight, great. If it had to come to a fight, then one of us wouldn't survive.
I was just more Larry of the humans in the city than I was the dogman in the country. I'd never seen a dogman in the country and I've been raised in the country. So I thought, well, how many of them can there be? But then I started like when I before I called you, I started looking on maps about dogmen citing the United States and Canada and Mexico. And I'm like, Oh my God, there's there's thumbtacks all over the board.
There really is no place that they aren't. Yeah, sure seems that way. And I don't blame you for wanting to live in the country, even though you've had these encounters because I feel the same way there's just nothing like living out in the sticks. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are listening who've had encounters who are horrified by what they heard you share about your experiences down there in Central America. Is there anything you'd like to tell them that might help calm their nerves?
Well, all I can tell them is the same thing I learned in his work for me was, if you have an opportunity back away from them, don't turn and run because if they want to run you down, these things are so fast a human cannot outrun them. But just sort of slink off, even like the other dogmen did to the big alpha, they kind of slink off looking at him.
Let him be the winner who cares what he thinks, or I mean, who cares. Just don't make any sudden movements, Adam. And if you do have to, if you think an attack is imminent, shine them in the eyes real quick, because it takes them. That only gives you a few seconds. And if you have to ever shoot one, shoot in the eye.
because you probably don't have enough ammunition to shoot some of us and have a bleed out before it can kill you. They're a lot like grizzly bears. You hear a lot of encounters out in the wild where someone will have a 44 Magnum or a large caliber pistol and they'll empty it into a charging grizzly bear and the bear can still run 30, 35 mile an hour over a big distance and kill the person before they bleed out. Same kind of thing with the dog, man.
The other thing I would say too, it always helps out to have dogs with you, to have animals with you, because animals can sense them. And while you don't want your dog to run off and try to protect you, they can tell you, hey, there's something wrong in the area, you know, don't stay. The other thing I'd say we learned too was about the infrasound. If you start feeling a real bad feeling in dread,
or kind of get aches and pains, or you become kind of nauseous, get out of the area, just leave, go back, cancel your day, move your activities somewhere else, do whatever, because that's a good sign that there's one around. And the best way to survive an encounter is to avoid the encounter. That's all really good advice.
I'm sure there are also tons of listeners who are wondering why you didn't bring back any pictures of the dog when you saw in Central America. What would you care to say to those people about that? Well, I can tell them that what we were doing down there, we weren't allowed to have any cameras. The only people that had cameras were the forensic people. They were taking pictures of the bodies. No, I can't tell you if they ever took any pictures of them. We got
All of our luggage and everything got checked before we went back to base or stateside. They didn't leave anything to chance. It wasn't so much. They were worried about the dogmen, but that was one of the things that we weren't allowed to really talk about or have any pictures of. So it wasn't that we had a chance to have pictures of them because there was no chance none of us had cameras or anything. You get to remember back in those days, there was no cell phones.
And they had satellite phones, but they didn't do it except my calls up and down to the satellite. The first phones I had were came with bags and like a 50-foot corner of the metal antenna. You stuck out here rough, but here you are. So there weren't none of these fancy little phones that we could snap pictures with. You know, that's the thing that a lot of listeners nowadays, if they're younger, they forget these phones are relatively recent invention.
So there was no opportunity or there was no chance or opportunity. And these people were not somebody you screw with. I mean, they, in part of our training and they laid down the law to us. So what would happen if we broke any of their rules and prison wasn't something that I wanted to get involved in a nice early age like that. Can't say I blame you. Yes, not my idea of fun either.
Your experiences clearly are indeed easy for you to talk about. Why did you decide to come on the show and do that to share the experiences? Well, my wife and I talked about it and she thought it'd be a really good thing to get off of my chest and get, you know, she said, you've told me the other guys have told their wives. She goes, but you guys are dying off. You're the last three guys left out of the 15.
And it turns out that there was 300 of us to begin with in this program when there's 16 of us left. She goes, whether anybody ever believes it or ever knows about it or maybe they come. Something comes out 20 years from now. Great. She goes, but get it off your chest. That's one way to have things put hot. And if you get them off your chest and talking to you, Vic has helped me tremendously.
And I just felt like after talking last week, it felt like a big weight was lifted off of me. And talking to Father Dan has been an enormous help too. I just feel so much better in my beliefs and everything after speaking to him and speaking to you.
And thank God for my wife all for me as much as she has. I'm so glad you have all this help from so many different directions. That's really good. And that's what this is all about. It's all about exposure. The more you talk about these experiences, the easier it's going to be to think and deal with them. Do you walk around in the woods around your farm or avoid them as much as possible? No, I've I walked around the woods when I came back right away. I've been
when it was been all my life. I mean, and I've always been well armed. I mean, I probably takes a false sense of security in that, but I will say one thing after seeing those, I upgraded what I carried. I used to, when I'd be out in the woods and stuff, I'd carry a nine millimeter and get maybe on my side by side or something, I never, I'm mini 14. Well, I upgraded that up to a nice Marlover action 45, 70 and I, you know, I carry a 10 millimeter
Glock and I've got a four fifty four cusool snub nose that I carry is my backup. Let's do to see and see in the dog men and realizing how much they weigh and how big they are. It's basically the same thing as shooting grizzly brothers attacking you. You gotta have something proportion to what you carry. And even if I'm hunting in the woods, I haven't bowl hunted for years, but I used to bowl hunt deer.
I'd still carry my 10mm microsole with me. Not that I would ever shoot at a dog man or shoot one and kill one unless I absolutely had to if it were trying to basically eat me. Because I honestly believe too that if you shoot one and wound one and you don't finish it now you've really got your hands full. Yeah, that's how normal he is. And I hope it never comes to that. That wouldn't be good.
I walk miles and miles in one of the big woods here where I live, without anyone else with me. I also go unarmed as well. Do you see that as being a crazy thing for me to do, or do you think it's no big deal? No, I don't think it's crazy, Vic, because that's the way I was for years before I went down there. I mean, I'd spent my whole life playing in the woods, working in the woods, whatever.
didn't worry about anything, you know, until I came back from there. I was like, oh my God, you know, these things are supposed to be when I learned out, learned before I opted out was that a lot of these things that they captured and trapped were from, from North America. So I'm like, well, okay, well, better at least be armed. But I never saw one of the woods up here. So I had no reason to would have any reason to think that you were being
remiss of it because you've probably never seen one of the woods. And I had never seen one until 2021 of the woods up here in North America. You never have an encounter until you do. It's like a lot of other things in life. I'd never seen one before. So, I mean, up here. So I thought, well, you know, no, that's, you're probably right, like walking around and like most of the encounters that people have
told you about. They basically left unharmed. And I'm sure there's some people that have been disappeared by them. So myself, I've just always been armed. And to be honest with you, I carry a more for the weirdo you might meet in the woods than I do for the dog, man. That's a valid concern. Your experiences with dogmen have taught you a lot about them. But what have they taught you about yourself?
Well, I'd have to say the one thing they did was they really taught me in a bad situation to calm down. You know, I know this sounds crazy because your first reaction is, you know, all your hair stand on end and you jump 40 foot up in a tree, you know, but I've learned to calm down. And I think that's what helped me through my last dog man encounter was
I was able to realize right away what it was to do all of a sudden my training kick back in and I kept my head and a second later I was in my car with the door shut back it up granted it could have chased me out jumped in the truck whatever and it didn't but part of that was it was getting what it wanted I was leaving I think that it's not me to look at a situation before I react because
I think when I was younger, even down there, it was very much a reactionary. And I think that it taught me not to react. My dad always just said, don't engage your muscles before you clutch your brain. You just put your brain in gear before you put the muscles in gear. And he's right about that. Think about what the situation does for a split second. Yeah, that's always good advice.
And I'm sure it's not lost on you all the thought you've put into your experiences. I'm sure you realize that when you were down there in the jungles, they could have gotten you if they wanted to really get you. And you already touched on the fact that you know that that night at the pull off, if that dog man wanted to get you, it could have gotten you. But it didn't because it was just cat and mouse. That's all there was to it. Well, to be honest with you, Vic, that last last encounter,
The truck that I was sitting in, it was, I left it idle because there was a cool light, cool light air, you know. And I left it idle so I got the heater on real low. And it's one of these new Chevys where, if it's running the lights stay on. And I think it was irritating to be honest with the noise running, you know, that here is a dogman, it's his woods are peaceful and quiet. He's enjoying a quiet evening.
Some guy pulls in with his truck running, leaves it run, and just sits there and runs with the light on, lighting up that whole little pull-off area. I think I was aggravating him, and he just wanted me gone. That makes really good sense, and you're probably right. That's probably what was behind all that.
And yeah, if you had the truck running, the heater was on. I mean, if it wanted to sneak up and grab you, it could have done that. And there wouldn't have been anything you could have done to stop that. But that didn't happen because it obviously didn't want that to happen. It didn't want to rip you apart. It just wanted you to leave. So right. It got what it wanted. That's right. It got what it wanted. Just wanted you out of there. And the ones down in Central America, they
They could have killed us on a heartbeat because we would, when we go on patrols, like I told you, we'd sit with our backs to a stump and a circle looking outward. And during the wet season, we'd sleep with our ponchos and this like netting over top of us, keep the mosquitoes out, but we'd sleep with our ponchos on to the water and we'd shut off us as much as it could looking outward.
and you can see the glowing eyes sometimes out in the jungle in the woods. Well, as fast as they were, they could easily run through there before we even seen them with those big claws and just opened up to us for you guys like a can of tuna. I have no doubts in my mind that had they wanted us dead, we wouldn't have made it out of there.
It's so good you understand that, and I want anyone listening who's so freaked out about the possibility of having another encounter after hearing all these horrific experiences that Carl shared with us here on this two-part show, I want you to understand that as well. Yeah, I get the terror that you feel when you have an encounter with one of these guys, but please remember, these guys have so many opportunities to take people out that they don't act upon,
That right there should tell you that these guys are not wired to rip you apart as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Yes, like we've already touched on tonight, you will have deviant examples of dogmen that aren't right in the head, that are dangerous, and they will kill you if the opportunity presents itself. But these guys are not as a group wired to do that. So please keep that in mind. I really hope all of you do.
It's not lost on you that they're actually people who go out to the woods with the sole intent of bagging one of these things, Carl. What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think they're playing with fire. I'm not saying these things can't be killed. I mean, obviously they can be, but it's like a guy that goes out after hunting after a grizzly bear or
Kodiak brown bear after the only thing he's ever hunted as a black bear and Hope that there's a reason that the state of Alaska requires if you get a tag for a bear you have to hire a licensed trained guide because People can quickly get in over their head so fast. They don't realize it and going out after something like this is just
I don't know, I think it's myself, I think it's nuts, but I think you're asking for more than what you want. Now, if this were like some movie where they were starting to kill a whole bunch of people and it's a war, well, then it's a war, then, okay, obviously, but just to go out in the woods looking for these things and think you're going to bag one, that's the same mindset as people think they're going to go out in the woods and bag a Bigfoot, you know, there's some things that are better left alone.
Oh, definitely. Yeah, there's no future in that. That's a good way to get yourself killed. After having all the encounters that you've had, including the one state side, do you think that your days of having encounters are behind you? Or do you think you might have another one or two down the road? After all the conversations we've had, you'd think I'd have a good beat on that, but I still don't. Well, to be honest with you, Vic, I hope I don't.
Well, you know, I hope I never see one again. I mean, but especially with my wife and my animals, I mean, I love our little farm dearly. I don't want anything around them. I, if we go through the national forest now, we're both old enough now that going to the national forest for us is like pulling off in one of the scenic overlooks and having a picnic sitting there with the dogs. I don't need to go out back back anymore. I don't know enough of that in my life.
I just, I hope I don't have any more to be honest with you. And for anybody that does have them in the future, my prayers are with you. I hope that they go well in the end and your survive everything. Maybe a little trauma, you call Vicki's wonderful about helping out, get it off of your chest. Here's the thing I thought about my last encounter too. I felt so lucky.
driving away and seeing that thing standing there that I hadn't shot it through the eye, you know, you got these people that go out and want to hunt them. I don't know if any of these things have been chipped. You know, there's that big rabbit hole too. And now if you do shoot one or your bag one, you want to tell anybody about it. How long is it until the guys in black shop knock on your door? And I'm more afraid of those guys than I am.
They're afraid of the men in black that I am the the dogments like I explained to you last time all the ways all the Roots and fingers they have that can reach in your life and totally destroy it and everybody you love It is not worth it
You're right. It's definitely not worth it at all. And I can understand you having that fear of them, but I really don't think you've done anything to cross them where they would pay you visit. I really don't. If I did think that you had, then I would tell you I'm shooting you straight. I really don't think you have anything to worry about at all. Well, that's true. I'm not doing anything to try to bring them on, but I'm warning other people too. You know, as far as guys want to go out and bag a dog, man.
You know, to what end are you going to try and show it off or are you going to take pictures of it? I mean, what you're really doing is inviting a world to hurt you. If the dogman doesn't hurt you, the men in black will. Oh, sure. If you're trying to fight a battle, they just can't possibly win. There's no winning that. Right. So I just don't understand the mindset of wanting to go out and bag one. That makes two of us. It really does.
Well, it's about time for us to get out of here, Carl, but before we do, do you have any closing comments you'd like to put out there for us? Uh, just thank you very much, Vic, for your help. Father Dan, my beautiful wife. I'd like to thank all of them. I'd like to tell everybody that's had a dog man visit that adversely affected him.
encounter. God bless you and God stays with you and walks with you and all you do. And I pray for you and I hope for good things for everybody. And if you've had an experience, please don't try to set up another experience so you can take pictures or shoot it because that's only going to lead to heartache and headache down the road. Let it drift off into a memory.
That's all very good advice, very well said. And Carl, you're living proof that bad things sometimes happen to very good people. I'm so sorry you had to experience all this. I really am, but like I told you, I'm so glad you have such a group of people around you trying to help you deal with this experience or these experiences. But having said that, thanks again so much for your time and have a great night.
