Know-It-Alls: Survivor 47 Ep 10

The smartest guys around are about to break it down like they'd want The game a million times While actually they didn't really win the game at all? Surviving nowhere else

Yeah, that's right. Cause we know it all is our back together this week after a little bit of an interruption last week. Thanks so much to Owen Knight for jumping in for me on the podcast last week while I had to be very good husband and attended to my wife's medical needs.

with the doctor. I'm talking with the with the medical crew. All right. But everything is back to normal over here. And very excited to be back here with Steven Fishback. Rob, it's a thrill to be back with you too. My gosh, I missed you. I mean, it was wonderful podcasting with Owen. I thought he did an awesome job. Rob, I want to say before we start, I guess this is actually kind of starting. Can I jump right in? I'm going to jump right in. Jump.

I loved your interview with Gabe. I just listened to it before we did this. I thought it was so good. It made me really like Gabe in a way. I enjoyed him on the show, but I think we got a lot of kind of mustache twirling confessionals from

he was like, I'm just using all these people. And he gave such great throw, like big, insightful answers to your questions. He spoke a mile, you know, you like say, like some people speak in paragraphs, like he was speaking in like essay format, you know, like well structured essay. So I great listen for anybody who has not yet listened to it. And I would like

You know, and you did mention that you think you'd be a great podcast, guys. At some point, you know, when you are hobnobbing with a glitterati, I would like to get him on the as a fill and know it all. Yeah, I think that Gabe, I appreciate all that. Thank you very much, Stephen, that I think that Gabe is a character and a persona. I think

that I've been comparing him to like a James Jones of that somebody who is like very knowledgeable at the game in like a very like good position for most of the game that they are going to have like interesting takes about the game coming off of the show. But I do feel like that

survivor doesn't necessarily know what to do with this character. I think that so much of survivor is about depicting the struggle, the underdog like Andy, they know what to do with teeny. They know what to do with.

But person who's kind of like the overdog and other than just turning them into a flat out villain, which they don't really want to do. And I don't think that these players are doing anything to necessitate them becoming villains. I think it's a little bit hard for the show to find what to do with these players that are sort of like running their side of the alliance and not doing anything that's making them like unlikable people.

Yeah, that's a really good observation. And I think you're right that, you know, those kind of mustache twirling professionals are the symptom of that. It's like, we got to get him something. We have to show him being strategic. And it used to be back when they were like, yeah, exactly. Right. Back when they were like, and if you wins, of course, you show like all the little strategic permutations of that. But like when he goes out in ninth place, you know, and that's hard to do it. And

It used to be that there were three or four really strategic people on a season. And then you could kind of really give them sort of breath. But when everybody, and especially this season, really, everybody is playing like a decent game or better, I think it's what do you do with that guy, like the top dog? You're right. And I think he's great as an establishing character. We got him a lot out of the gate, like building the alliance, looking for the boxes. But then at this sort of mid-merge,

You know, where do you show that? And especially, yeah, so it's interesting.

Yeah. So got the exit interview in with Gabe. Then last night had a really fun podcast with Q who said that Q has hijacked a podcast and he came in and was really, really fun. Lots of interesting stuff with Q. I also recorded an interview today. I mean, it's talk about new era Mount Rushmore week here on Rob as a podcast.

that I just got off talking to Carolyn. And so that's going to be tomorrow. We're going to premiere my interview with Carolyn. Now on the cue podcast, did you cancel Christmas? I'm hoping that cue cancels Christmas. I really am. You know, I got a lot of obligations at Christmas time. And if you cancels Christmas, that would be phenomenal for me. Yeah. Right. Loth your gifts to give. Yes.

Yes. And really, there's just like all that time off would not have to be doing Christmas stuff. Don't have to decorate. I mean, if Q cancels Christmas, I would be the number one fan of that. Are you a Grinch?

That's what they say. They say I'm a Grinch, but I spend a lot of money on presence and doing all these things for everybody. I make a lot of people have a very good holiday, but they still call me a Grinch. You know what I would say, Rob? I feel like the real altruists are the people who hate doing it, but do it anyway. You know? That's me. You love giving. That's me.

It's a selfish act to give, but you hate it. And I do it anyway. True hero, yeah. Yes, thank you. Thank you for finally noticing, Steven. I appreciate that. But anyway, so one of the things that came up with Q last night that I think is interesting about this season, especially compared to Survivor 46, is that this game is seemingly, like, Survivor 46 to me was like a season of like, haves and have-nots in terms of, okay, these are the couple of people that we're identifying that can win.

And then the people who are drawing dead.

And then ultimately, Kenzie was kind of the person who's like, well, she's not drawing dead, but she's not the big threat. And then ultimately she ends up being the person who wins. This season is actually much different in that there's really not like a have and have not situation where there's like, there's not like two or three people that we have identified. Okay, these are the true power players that if they get to the end, they win. And then here's four people that are drawing dead.

Like overall, it's pretty even and Genevieve kind of elevated herself as like Genevieve and Gabe had sort of been like slightly elevated above the rest of the fray, which made them number one targets. I kind of thought that after last week, Genevieve taking out Saul was a decent enough move because as we've seen in the new era,

The big, you take out the big threat. Uh oh, you have to go. Well, Genevieve is like, I'll take out a medium threat. Right. But she did something and it's like, okay, well, Genevieve has to go. So isn't that interesting though in terms of like this season of how open it is? And then also there's also no like, okay, they are absolutely, they have no shot.

Yeah, I truly, I mean, even, you know, a lot of people are speculating that Andy could win this season. And, you know, he, if you looked in episode one, it's like the guy you're saying, well, that guy's got no shot. But now he's a real viable winner. I mean, who really has no shot? I think Sue is pretty unlikely based on what we've seen. I would say she's eight of eight.

Um, and then like Kyle is probably seven, but you know, the rest of them are, but only because like why, because Kyle gets to the end, people are voting for him. I could see where we're Kyle wins. Yeah. Kyle is not drawing debt. Kyle like has no shot to get to the end because people realize that he would win. And quite literally has no shot in the dark to get to the end either. Hey. Um, so yeah, yeah, it is really interesting. It's, it's a very fun season, I think, because everyone is making strategic

Ish, you know, other than possibly Sue, whose primary motivation seems to be that Kyle wrote her name down. Everyone else is making strategic decisions, you know, that are with the goal of advancing them themselves further into the game. Now, I think something that 46 had that this season doesn't have is that sort of like those kind of like breakout characters. Yeah. And even 45, which I honestly think like is my favorite season of the new era. I hope that's not a contentious take. I know. I don't think so. Okay.

Um, I think that's the conventional wisdom. Oh, shoot. What happened? I have to change. Oh, God. What have I become? I guess I'm, you know, I'm a middle-aged man. Um, just like conventional. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, what I believe are my own opinions or it's conventional. Um, the, um, no, but like, you know, there you have like a few characters who would be like, wow, those people are playing really good games. Like D is playing a really good game.

Um, and I don't know if we have like that yet this season. I feel like that's what this season is missing. But so many people are playing good games. You know, there's so many people who are playing really strong, good games that are really fun to watch and seeing all those permutations come together is really exciting. I mean, I know that Jeff, you know, according to the on fire podcast, like hates the blowout votes, but

you know, the journey to get to these blowout votes where you're seeing just all these people wheeling and feeling is so fascinating. Like to me, that's what survivors about. Well, this has been a season of pylons in terms of the votes. Even last night's nine person vote was a seven to two split. Do you make anything of that in terms of is that the players being like somewhat craven of like, okay, oh, this is where the votes are going. Let's all just vote with the house as they would say on Big Brother.

Yeah, I think that's it. I think they're self-interested. They're all smart. And so nobody's going to like take a stand and like do a losing vote. You know, there seems to be a lot of information flow between them because the Alliance lines are not that rigid. And so as a result of that, you have a lot of different, you know, everyone kind of like gets the

The final word, you know, last week, obviously, it was really seem to be at the last minute, but everyone gets the word and so nobody wants to be left out and they intelligently jump into the vote. You know, it's fun seeing someone like Andy put himself at the center of that kind of information flow where he is like the major information broker, at least it seems. I mean, he's had really, really quite a recovery.

So we saw in this episode, a lot of Andy talking about, you know, they have a great confessional with him with the spider. We also saw Rachel and Sam sort of in the middle of that. Do you think that, and we'll get to who gets the fishy, but were they the ultimate shot collars here in what was going to happen versus it being Genevieve or Gabe? Yeah. I mean, I think like the obviously was it Caroline.

Um, it was Caroline was she the one who just kind of like came came around on it. Um, the, the, the, I think that this was a situation where who had the, who had the vote were like, do you show them holding it? Was it, was it, who's a teeny? Someone who the vote that you should hold them, show them holding up the parchment and saying like, you know, we just can't miss this chance to take you out right now. It was like right at the last.

Um, let me review my notes. Um, I'm sure someone in the, in the chat will get it, but you know, I think that was ultimately, you know, what it was, is that you've got these fortuku, you just can't, as much as you might want to get Genevieve out. Um, oh, uh, someone's saying Rachel. Um, okay. You know, as much as you might want to get.

Rachel, we heard that we didn't see what she voted. That's the point. It's like you cannot let the four two who advance to eight. Like even though we as the viewers know that there's dissension in those ranks, there's like Sue hates Kyle, like there's, I think like it's easy to toy with the idea of like, let's get out, Genevieve, but like you really just can't let this group of four that's never voted against each other.

except the one time Kyle Board of Pursue, which was pretty merge. But you can't let them get together. So I think the pressure to take out Gabe was always going to be a little bit overwhelming. And Josh Kettles made this great point on Blue Sky that it actually kind of makes Genevieve's move to take out Salt a little bit better, because even if she's worried about being a target like this coming week,

There's just so much pressure to take out a Tuku. So last week's move of taking out Saul was a better move because it made it put the onus on, okay, the other five people have to vote together to take out one of the Tuku.

Yeah, right, exactly. You have a little bit of insulation going into this vote because you know, and of course, there's a world where Sue finds out about it and plays her idol for gay, but even in that world, it's genuine. Well, they don't even know Sue has an idol. And Gabe didn't know Sue had an idol.

Let's go back to because you and I didn't get to talk about Genevieve's move from last week. And I think that I was at the time that it happened a little bit like, okay, I love that she did this, you know, sad for Saul, but I don't really understand the logic behind it. But we got in the episode that there was at least some

Even though in this episode, we talked about that Genevieve doesn't have any emotional feelings towards people that the episode gave us a little bit that like, hey, this is payback for my friend Rome. I hate Saul for that. I've wanted to get him out since he screwed over Rome. But in this episode, Genevieve is like very much like, I didn't have any sort of personal feelings with people.

So for Genevieve, now trying that to be results oriented, I felt like that her move really just kind of just spiraled out of control. I thought that it was probably would have been better received by everybody had it been what she ultimately tried to do originally where, okay, I'm going to vote with the Tuku, get Andy on board, and then

uh, go and that'll be, that'll be it. And it's not going to be seen so much as a Genevieve move. Right. But it really, like, I mean, credit to Gabe, although it didn't work out for him, like he really was like, Hey, this is your move Genevieve. This is your choice. Um, and I think you're probably right that she probably did not want to own it as much as she did. She probably wanted, I didn't totally, I feel like we never got Genevieve's answer about why this was so good for her. And hopefully at some point, well, I mean, at some point she'll be interviewed.

Um, I'd love to like find out why it was so important, you know, so Saul said in your exit interview with him that, you know, he had all these different connections. And so Genevieve wanted to like eliminate that because it may be because it opened up her game more, but it still is not totally clear to me why this was good for her game because Saul was someone who was, you know, according to him trying to get her to the final three. He was someone who was like watching her back and, you know, here this episode we see Genevieve largely isolated. Nobody is talking to her. You know, she says like, I'm just sitting here. Nobody's coming over and talking to me.

And that's what you miss from not having allies. You need the people who are in the conversations that you're not in telling you what you need to pay attention to. And so that's why I think it was such a bad move for Genevieve. And I think it did almost blow up in her face. And I think if it weren't for this overwhelming pressure of these four tukus, it probably would have. That being said,

I do think there's a world where now she's a little bit off the hook. Realistically, I think Genevieve is one of the next two vote outs. But I think it might not be the next vote out, because sometimes, when someone just barely misses it, people give them a grace period. On the next vote, they're like, okay,

you got, you got through that one. We're going to move on. Yeah. That could be for Genevieve. Yeah. You know, I think it's interesting that this vote ended up being between Gabe and Genevieve because I kind of see them as similar players in the game. And I

I think that maybe Genevieve might have, you know, had a little bit of a self awareness that maybe Gabe didn't see as much as they were potentially both seen as the leader of their group. And for Genevieve, who wasn't as tight with Tini and Saul, even though Tini and Saul felt tight with Genevieve, I think that Genevieve is like, hey, if I don't take out one of my own numbers, they're going to take me down as the leader of the lava people.

Yeah. And that for Gabe, that is ultimately what happened to him is that he was seen as the leader of the Tuku 4. Caroline, I thought it was back when they had that tribal council with Rachel. I think she says to Tiana where Tiana's like, hey, if we go back with five of us, like they're gonna, they're gonna take us out. And Caroline says, yep, they'll take out one of us.

but it won't be me or you, it'll be Gabe. Great, great callback. And I think that for Genevieve, I think that she was able to see, I'm in trouble here as seen as the leader of this group. So if I take out Saul, all of a sudden I'm not as threatening, but she wasn't able to do it in a way to hide the fact that she was the person who made a move.

Yeah, she became much more threatening. If that was her goal, mission failed. And I wonder if Gabe that should have maybe the move should have been to target Kyle last time, right? And does Gabe stay if when Kyle doesn't win immunity,

Okay, let me instead of trying to jam my four down the throats of everybody else when we have the numbers, should I get ahead of that and take out Kyle so that preemptive strike doesn't come at me.

Yeah, I mean, that's exactly the major theme that I wanted to talk about today, which is, you know, I mean, and Kyle said the same thing, right? I need to take out Gabe, like he's going to come for me. And Gabe really laid that out. He said, you know, there's four tukus. I've got to get out Kyle because he said that, right? In the episode, like I've got to get out Kyle because we are going to be so threatening as a block. Like it just puts huge heat on me. And we do talk so much, you know, on this podcast about how you

how silly it is often for people to turn on their allies. But when your ally being in the game is creating more heat on you, does that make it a good move? And I'm so curious, is it a good move? According to this episode, the first person to bring up Gabe's name was Kyle. And I think even Gabe said, Kyle kind of broaching it, opened it up, and probably Gabe would have been a target anyway, or the target anyway. But Kyle

saying it kind of like just sort of starts the ball rolling a bit. And is this a good move for Kyle? Like does this remove heat from him? You know, Gabe made the point in your exit interview that no, it's not a good one. I was thinking like, do I give a fishy to Kyle today? Like he is the last person left without a fishy, like wouldn't that be beautiful? Like such like a commune official. But like gave me the point on your interview, you know, it's bad for Kyle because Gabe was always going to be a target that to deflect off of Kyle.

Kyle was the one person who would have been most served by two kids sticking together. So I think that while for Genevieve, maybe it's smart. Hey, I'm going to try to like weaken my side for Kyle, his only path to the end.

is to be part of like, like be the lowest person on a strong side and that he is not seen as like a big target. So for Gabe, it made sense to target Kyle last week when he was vulnerable. I did not think it was such a hot move for Kyle to be targeting Gabe.

Yeah, yeah, I ultimately, I agree because, you know, he is such a big target with this immunity streak, you know, that he's on, you know, Dalton tweeted that if he wins the next one, he will like have like met or I'm sorry, maybe it was so much maybe it was Jeff true dark times like that, you know, this will be

match Aussie streak of winning five out of out of six challenges. Now, of course, there is a big asterisk by one of Kyle's wins. But yeah, like multiple. What's the other? I mean, one, the one asterisk I'm thinking of is where the two people did better than him. But also like he ends up winning against half the field in the first one. That's the same one. Also, well,

So that there was two because then the first one's that merchitory. Yeah, but like at some point it's like, you know, like so like, you know, our Cochrane's wins against like, you know, the four, the final four of that. Do those not count? Like he wanted him. He wanted an individual. He got the necklace. Like, are we now trying to count? Like how many people are, you know, in the, in the field before we give you full credit?

I mean, in terms of the individual immunity wins, like he would not have even been eligible to compete for it had he been on the side of the military that lost. So it was a against the lesser field. Also, then one of them was like one man, one woman. So, you know, it's a little bit, you know, I don't know necessarily like, look, great job by Kyle.

But, you know, to compare it to, I'm not sure what, like, if we go back to see if there's anything Fagezi with Ozzie's five wins, or who else had five?

I mean, Terry probably had five, you know, in Panama, I think. Yeah, okay. I don't want you again. Maybe Colby had five. Wasn't he the first to five? Yeah, we'll look it up this week and see, you know, how do we put in comparison Kyle? Like hallway, yeah. But it's like, you know, some of these are like the final four. You beat three people, but Kyle will be five people. Like, do you really need to like, you know, how neat are we getting here?

I guess so. I didn't think of it that way in terms of like, is it that impressive if you win the final, the final four immunity? Yeah. It's always been impressive to me. Yeah. But, you know, or like, it's like, if it's like, if it's like an eating competition, do you get like an asterisk? Because it wasn't, you know, a balancing, a ball balancing competition? You know, like that's like, yeah. I don't see you. It sounds like you're saying no asterisks.

where there's like literally two people who perform it. That's hard. That's hard to stomach as true with. Okay. Yeah. All right. So where should we jump back into this? Do you want to talk about any particular players? Well, let's talk about who. So is this a good move? And then like, who is this a good move for? I think we're all agreeing. Was it a good move to take out Gabe?

Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'll go down the line. So yeah, definitely a good move for for Genevieve. I think that Rachel is an interesting inflection point. Rachel seemingly wanted to take out Genevieve and ultimately kind of settles for Gabe in this episode after there wasn't enough of a critical mass to take out Genevieve. Did you think that Genevieve was

they better target for Rachel? Well, what's funny about it is like, at least like the story that I saw in the episode and tell me if you agree or disagree with this, was that like Andy kind of like puts the brain worm into Genevieve's ear that, you know, that she's like threatening to her because like Andy, we see Andy be saying something to Rachel, you know, like, oh, and Genevieve was throwing your name out too. She's wary of view. And then it seems like we have like Rachel go like, huh,

And then in every subsequent conversation, right? She's like, we got to get out. Jenna didn't put the go back to Andy. And yeah, he says, not only that, I think he goes, he sells past the clubs because he's like, Oh, Genevieve was saying, yeah, your name. So I wouldn't trust her if I were you. But then she does it, you know, and maybe Rachel already didn't trust Genevieve. But.

And I mean, in fairness though, we have seen Genevieve pushing for Rachel in the past. So I don't know necessarily if it was a, a press a lie. I mean, it's like, you know, good for Andy to kind of like create all this dissension around him. Yeah.

I feel like that for Rachel, I think that leaving Jen, I know that Genevieve is gunning for Rachel to some degree, but I feel like that Genevieve is still a bigger target. I guess that this is an interesting question of, is it better to have a bigger target out there?

That is potentially saying your name or like a take out a lesser target, a lesser shield for you who's not targeting you. Oh, that's interesting. Better to take out a bigger target who is saying your name. Wait.

No, that's like doubly bad, like to take out of it. You want a bigger target and you want someone who... Oh, I see what you're saying. But the bigger target is Genevieve. Genevieve is saying like, hey, what about Rachel? I think he might. What about Rachel? I mean, although maybe at this point everybody's saying everybody's name, but you know, the people who are pushing for you, I think you got to get out of the game. Like that is the goal I think at this stage in the game, final nine, 10. You know, I think at this kind of like mid-merge area, you want the people out who are the... Cause like, who are the ones putting you forward.

Yeah, okay, I think from Caroline's perspective, this is a very interesting move here. Caroline- I think too soon for Caroline, PS. Okay, let's talk about it because- Yeah, because like, she says like, oh, go ahead, I'm sorry. You go ahead. She says, you know, I'm not gonna win against Gabe, like people perceive him as being, you know, better than me or having played a better game than me. I think she even says like he has played a better game than me. I don't think she makes it about perception. Caroline, oh, so gracious.

That's the kind of move where I feel like that's the one to wait. You know, like Gabe turning on Kyle kind of makes sense to me, but Caroline turning on Gabe, wait till the final six. You know, he's going to be a huge target then. Wait till the final five. He's going to use your then. But like by getting rid of this Tuku block, like you are like minimizing your own leverage in this game.

Yeah, I think that that's probably right. And you and I think I've been pretty complimentary about Caroline so far and certainly could see a path for her in terms of like her edit in the season to ultimately getting to the end. But I'm not sure necessarily how she gets to the end without other players making errors.

in terms of what they're doing. Because now, I'm not sure who she jumped to or with. She doesn't seem to have any other particularly close allies other than Sue. So if it's just her and Sue, it's not her and Sue and Kyle, for sure.

I mean, maybe she's thinking her and Sue and teeny. I mean, we've seen her talking to teeny a bunch. Potentially. Right. And I feel like that would be at this stage, and I, you know, we'll talk about this later, but I think teeny's got, you know, a lot of game left in them. But, but, you know, I think at this stage from Caroline's perspective, like a Sue teeny Caroline perspective, Final three could be very, could be good for her. Well, what do you think the next move is from Caroline's perspective?

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone's got to push for Genevieve, right? And the challenge is going to, for Caroline, I think is going to be keeping Kyle around, given that Sue hates Kyle. Do you want to keep Kyle around? Or is the next move of like, okay, Kyle doesn't win immunity. And this is like a great way to patch things up with Sue of like, all right, Sue, come on, let's get Kyle.

Right. So yeah, that's a good point that Sue is probably going to feel a bit betrayed by, by Caroline. For sure. I was very surprised that Caroline would make this move without looping in Sue. Well, do we know Sue wasn't looped in and she posted for Genevieve? Yeah, but she might. She might just not have been willing to vote for Gabe. She does not strike me as like having an incredible poker face.

It's got a, something's going on with her face. We got to talk about that too. She's a very dirty face. Very dirty. Yeah. Do you remember Nina's face in like Survivor? Nina, who was in the 24? Nina Acosta? Yeah, false face first and kind of like the rest of the game. The rest of the game was like one more day. But like, I mean, like, Sue, as far as we've seen, has not taken any like direct facial injuries. But, you know, it kind of reminds me of like Nina's face and that, you know,

I don't know what's going on there. Yeah. It looks very dirty. Yeah. Um, yeah. I spoke with Carolyn about this. They Carolyn had some theories that we could listen to in just to tease that podcast about that. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Yeah. Um, anyway, so, so no poker face for, for Sue, just a dirty face.

Is this strategy to looking extra dirty and homely like in terms of like, like if I really like make myself like, you know, if you go into like a job interview, it's like, oh, well, this guy's not a threat. Look at him. He's all dirty. Well, he's like 10.

The mosquitoes bother you less if you're filthy. It's when you get clean. At least that was in token chains. When we got clean, that's when the bugs really came for us. That said, nobody wants to cuddle in the shelter when you stink. And maybe that's the goal, too, to keep people away in the shelter at night. Yeah. Well, just because you are dirty, it doesn't mean you stink.

I mean, they're often related. Often related, but you know, if you're putting dirt on your face, that doesn't mean you stink. I guess though, but it just sort of suggests you're not bathing, which would mean your like overall human stink is like accumulating. Okay.

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The next move for Caroline, other than voting out Kyle potentially, do you see any other obvious move for her? I mean, I kind of imagine the next few votes, and this is purely speculative. So I'm not like staking my reputation on this is going to be kind of like a group flow a little bit. Like I think like flow.

Well, the last couple have seemed like they were. There was like more back and forth, right? I feel like next one, it's either going to be Genevieve or Kyle and probably the one after that will be Kyle or Genevieve, you know, who's like, like to me, those seem like so obviously the major targets now. And then I think you've got like someone that you've got like the final six, you've got Caroline Sue, Sam, Rachel, Andy, Tini, you know, maybe Sam goes there. Yeah. And then you know, Sam and Caroline are probably six and five, maybe in that order.

Can we talk to you about this a little bit? I think that there is like some interesting voting blocks that are going on here right now. Could we say the gata three is the most important voting block in the game? Yeah, sort of surprisingly, since like these three have like no, you know, don't seem to be turned on them at the Sierra. But suddenly, you know, this three could be a group. Is Kyle with them? Is Kyle with them?

Um, no, I don't think so. Are they even a three? Is Rachel doing her own thing? Is Andy doing his own thing? I think they're probably not. My guess is they will probably work together for the next few votes, but only because they're like kind of like ball trying to play the middle, you know, like Sam's sort of, I mean, wounded birds has been like a theme of this season, right? From one, one Gabe kind of called Caroline and Sue that early on. And he, um, you know, he explains that further in your interview podcast with him, but, um, he, uh, you know,

Sam sort of like looking to create this alliance of the people on the bottom. You know, Rachel feeling like she doesn't have a place and be kind of like trying to like work from that. Like, does anyone have a place? Is everybody on the bottom in this game? Is there anyone not on the bottom of the game? You have eight people that all think they're on the bottom. Yeah, I kind of, it kind of has that vibe. Like, teeny said, they're on the bottom. Like, truly, who does not think they're on the bottom? So, right, 47 bottoms up.

the bottom feeders. The game was like the only person who talks consistently about being on top. Yeah. And then teeny, you said you want to talk about teeny, teeny, a free agent. Yeah. Goes where? Well, that's where I think like,

You know, I can see Tini working with Rachel and Andy and Caroline, you know, maybe Sue is a part of that to like take out some of the people who they do perceive as threatening, which are Kyle and Genevieve now. Yeah. Um, and the question is like, how far does Sam go? Right. Sam was like the best thing to have in this. Maybe was getting Sierra voted out, right? Like being perceived as a wounded bird has been like the, and Sam feels like he doesn't have any agency in the game, but

it's given him actually much more longevity than he probably otherwise would have had. No, we've seen it throughout the history of the show and not just in the new era. And I think that there's been this misinterpretation of this. The greatest thing that could happen to you is your number one ally gets voted out often. Especially, but not if you do it.

Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Like if you're the one who does it terrible for you, because everyone's super suspicious of you and then you have someone on the jury who hates you. Yes. But if it happens, if it happens, that's amazing. Yeah. I mean, we've seen the history of survivor is littered with people. Malcolm and Angie.

for sure. But you know, Jeremy and Natalie, Steven and Jeremy, you know, that people who end up, you know, with their number, even like last season, look at Tiffany and Kenzie, that Kenzie thought about taking out Tiffany, ultimately decided not to do it, then everybody else did it without her.

She was amazing. It's great for her. I mean, she was mad because she didn't get like the credit, but like I truly believe that Kenzie would have lost last season if Tiffany was on the jury and like furious at the portrayal. Yeah. So you get your number one, your number one gets voted out. Yeah. And then you're less threatening.

That's the real. This is the real strategy. Yes. Getting your number one voted out, but not getting the blame on it. Not being part of it. Now, could you accept people, Steven? Could you sort of like put the... Go into their dreams. Could you manifest this of like, you know... Just like whisper it at night, you know. But like, but not be part of it.

And you can come back. How dare you? How dare you? How could you? Yeah, you monsters. Why does Rob keep whispering about Matthew von Ertefeld at night?

Mm hmm. Yeah, I don't know You tell me okay. I don't know anyway, so teeny. I have a feeling you want to talk about the teeny edit Well, is that okay? Yeah, that's okay. Um, I mean I think that teeny you know, we've talked about this a bunch and I talked about this with Owen last week just that

You know, for all that Tini has accomplished very little in this game, they're getting an amazing edit of consistently being shown as strategic, consistently being shown as empathetic, consistently being shown as like a big, you know, a part of the decision-making process often, like a decisive part, even if, even if all, well, I guess not decisive, because all was on the wrong side. Not this time. Not, well, right, not this time. But, you know, this episode, we saw so much, I feel like this was like the Tini coming into their own moment. Yes.

Yes. And so do you think that, uh, I do think that we are at the beginning of a teeny run. I'd be very surprised if teeny ends up going out, but do you, are you feeling like that this culminates in teeny winning survivor 47? That is my feeling.

Now, I'm not like all in on Tieni, because like we were saying, there's a lot of people who are viable. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Andy. I wouldn't be surprised, you know, I think Andy Rachel is viable. I mean, I think Sam is someone who's I'm still not out on, but I do think from my perspective, Tieni is the likeliest candidate. And Andy's kind of like my runner up, but I think Andy is probably a runner up. I think Andy, my final three prediction has been for a while that it's Tieni, Andy, and Sue. I do think there's too much- We did get to the beginning of Andy and Sue.

What? No, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think Rachel's going out and fire. Oh, was there fire in the glasses? There was fire in the glasses. OK. Yeah. But I think that.

that, you know, this is sort of was a big moment for teeny, both in terms of like getting this sort of revenge arc that's based around getting revenge, you know, for Saul, which obviously had to be motivated by Saul's vest, you know, like that's like supercharge anybody's feelings about Saul. I mean, my feelings were supercharged and I'm already really a passionate, um, solite, solacolite. Um,

Anyway, Solomonites. And then we have obviously that really powerful expression of teeny's ambivalence about their social status and how that relates to their identity, which was like such a beautiful moment. And potentially, it's not resolved. There's more story there.

What do you think about teeny holding up the burnt bag and the burnt bag? I mean, if I'm making winter, the bird bag is a symbol of my game. Yeah. Did you follow that analogy from the ashes? She's feeling like his Phoenix. Yeah, Phoenix. Like the Phoenix. Yeah.

Yeah. The Phoenix. Yes. Okay. Steven, you posted to Twitter a fishy for Saul's vest. Oh my gosh. What a holy cow. And you, I mean, Dalton, you know, this was, you missed the question about, you know, what about Saul's vest, Rob? And you're in your limited interview. Dalton, that did ask the question, like, what were you all making about Saul's vest and gave us a very funny answer to that. But like, apparently this again, when Saul was trying on like Rome's clothes that he left at Ponderosa.

I mean, it's just incredible. And like, he looks like just so like, just like exuding, you know, all this, this masculine energy. Just like, look at those muscles and this pecs, my gosh, like those arms. I mean, truly, like I posted on, on blue sky last night, like how do you maintain so much muscle mass and other people have pointed out people like, like James Clement, who obviously made a tremendous amount of muscle mass. Did people say to you, Steven, it's only day 17?

I know. There's that aspect. It's like, even so, I mean, it's only five days longer than Rob was on some overall stars. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's very funny. Um, he's still like, did you look that good coming out of us? I didn't look that good starting.

Yeah, but it's not so it's not day 33. If you look at that image of me of that I took of Saul. So like that's me taking a picture of my TV screen. Yeah. How are these people? You know, you get like the Mike Blooms of the world and don't like these scally like these like they got gifts and images like what am I doing wrong? They got a little content farm going on at their house. I know something is going because like like instant reaction. They got like a team set up.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. Um, somebody said that was that was big. That was big. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I do think what was your, like, so what's your take on team? So I think that Tini, I think is about to go on it, like have like a very impactful part of their story. I don't think Tini is going to be the winner of the season. And I wonder if Tini ends up being sort of fallen angel,

or goes to the final tribal council, but doesn't end up winning. I'm just not sure that the jury awards team. Everybody likes Tini, but does do these players. And again, Tini has some fans on the jury in Sierra in Seoul so far. Gabe. However, Gabe, that I asked Gabe about, hey, why did you call Caroline a snake? Gabe said, I didn't call Caroline a snake. I called Tini a snake.

But he was saying that's like a little bit of like, you know, he was giving her credit. He got a little snake in you. Like you're playing more of a game than I realized. Yeah. But if teeny, like maybe teeny's big move could be, Hey, I took out Genevieve. I slayed the dragon who that from we were back and forth this whole game of like, whether we were never on the same side of these votes.

Maybe that could be like a teeny's signature moment in the game and sort of like, okay, nobody thought I could do it. However, I do feel like that I just don't know if there's enough there for teeny in terms of being a non factor in terms of like how the game has gone.

But I think your point is right there. It's like, you know, I think these days, you just need to be like the most liked person and have like one thing that they can point you to say, this is why we did it. So, you know, I mean, look at me, you know, there's no way the final nine, we would have said Marianne is going to win that season, you know, or I mean, Gabler, he had like one move and like everybody disliked the other two more than they like, you know, more than they disliked him. Very fair.

I think that is, that's really Tini's path. And I think if Tini is sitting there with Andy and Sue, I think Sue is not going to get respect. And I think Andy, you know, as much as he seems to be playing a very active game, I think he's going to have a lot of dislike from the jury. You know, you've got obviously Sierra, Mayor upon DeRosa, who he betrayed, you know, you have Saul, you know, he was a Saul secret agents, you know, he blew the whole list.

And now Gabe, like this Gabe, Gabe was talking to Andy and Andy betrayed him. So there's always that danger of being in the person in everybody's ear of being that person. I think what sets teeny apart from a lot of these players is that they are really clear about their loyalties. They're really clear about their motivations. And I think that's something that when you do get to the end of the jury respects,

Hey, this was the team you were a part of. Here are the moves you made. Like you stuck to your group and you outplayed the people who weren't in your group. And I think if you can get to the end with that kind of resume and being well liked, I think that's a lot. And twice now in the previously on, the show has done like a lot of like clarification on what teeny's intentions were and teeny's reaction to a vote. It happened both on the

Asia vote where there was like the previously on was really focused on that Tini didn't want to go along with the plan to vote out Asia and ended up writing down Saul's name because that Tini was too emotionally attached to Asia to be able to do that. That came as a cleanup in the previously on. And then this week's previously on was really all about Tini's perspective on the Saul blindside.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, and now, but let's talk about Andy too. Okay. Give you one more teeny thing. Oh, yeah. Please. You know, I love to hear it. One more. Okay. This is not a paid sponsorship by from Wicked opening in theaters nationwide, but teeny came into this game and said that their wardrobe was New Jersey inspired scarecrow. And you know what? The scarecrow didn't like Steven.

the heart. Fire. Hated fire. The scarecrow is very scared of fire. Did not want to go near the fire. Oh, that's the thing. I think he's going to win fire. I think he's going to be right. That's like, that's what, um, what's the matter? Like scarecrow afraid of the little fire. Yeah.

You know, I think like maybe like Sue wins the final four takes Andy. I don't know. This is like, this is really getting like, like totally, maybe it's like a captain planet thing of like the elements and teeny is the fire. Sue is the earth.

Yeah. So it's definitely the earth. I mean, yeah. Rachel's the water. And I guess that makes Andy the air wind. Yeah, the air. What we can say, Andy, is that what you're going to? Well, a lot of people are also talking about Andy, because we do see a lot of how Andy is playing the strategic game. Yes.

We're also seeing people who are like, there's something interesting about Andy, where it's like this combination of playing this really strategic game. And if Genevieve had been the one to go out, I was going to give Andy full credit for that because I do think he kind of like set the ball in motion there. But he said the ball in motion with his tongue. That's right. That's right. His fourth snakeish tongue is, you know,

But sometimes these moments do seem a little bit like over like that. It was like this moment with like Andy and Sue, which I feel like is really emblematic of Andy's game. And he's like, Sue, you know, you and I, we are the ones like, I want to move forward with you in this game. And you're like, Oh, wow, what a passion speech, Mandy's is like, okay, you know, she's like, sure. All right, whatever. And it's like, is Andy being super strategic or like where like what's the, or is it like sort of like a coach esque strategy? Like is Andy a coach character?

No, I don't know if Andy is a coach character, but I think Andy is really great in the confessionals. And Andy is really great at like talking about the game, talking about his position, making metaphor and analogy about it. So Andy's a great storyteller. And so I think that the editors and the producers have really capitalized on that. How much is Andy

actually doing, I think is up for debate. I think that maybe it might even be a situation where Andy could get to the final tribal council and lay out like this really great speech and like resume of what he did. And the people on the jury might be like,

That didn't happen. Yeah, right. And we saw some of those. I actually think that's exactly what happened. I think he's going to be like, I was in everybody's ear. I was talking to everybody. I was the one pulling together these plans from behind the scenes. And everyone's going to be like, no, you were sort of like that random guy. We all kind of tried to include. I mean, that's sort of what happened to me, to be honest with you. I tried to make that case. And I was like, were you? Was that you? And so I do think that

You have a lot of empathy for that. And I mean, I really enjoy Andy as TV. He's great TV. And there is just a little bit, because he knows the game so well and he is so good at talking about it, but there is that like a little bit of disconnect between his own perception of himself and kind of like what is actually happening. But then sometimes he's also, he's like very aware of that. And so he's also very emotionally vulnerable. I mean, that's why I kind of see him as a coach-ish character. And I'm not like one to one with coach, but like- Both have great hair.

Yeah, both fans of the Buffalo Bills. Yeah, coach had that like vulnerability to him that I think Andy has, you know, like sort of like there was like both this kind of like grandiosity and the sensitivity. Yeah. Okay. I was going to ask you that as this game said I'll be back in the episode. So first of all, just let's just do the checklist on Gabe. Yeah. Gabe.

I would like, I just don't think he's gonna cut it. In terms of what a big character, if you would ask me after the first episode, I would have said like, I think there's a very strong possibility to come back. He gets, for me, the Tevin Award of that his best episode of the season was episode one. Yeah, you're good at these comparisons, that's very good. I thought that James Jones thing for him was really good too. Yeah, okay, but I probably think that is Gabe coming back maybe one day.

Yeah, I just think like the new air second chances if that's a season, I think that that's a good spot for game. Yeah, right. And that especially if it's soon, you know, I think that because but yeah, he kind of almost was under edited like you said, because like they didn't really know what to do with him, you know, and you had all these kind of like cookier characters, Andy.

Yeah, I think Andy is a very valuable returning, returning player. I think so too. Yeah, I really do. I don't think that Andy will win the season, but I do think that if we were doing a survivor of 47 returny draft, I think Andy might be the number one pick for 47. Now, what about Andy and John love it on a tribe together? I think that's a non zero possibility for for survivor 50.

uh... it would be great to you what would they be able to men fences

Of course, oh, that's the question. That's fun. Is it a rival season? No, just like, let's put, you know, it's like putting, you know, I mean, I guess they didn't put Spencer and Cass and I tried. They should have Francesca and Phillip back together. Yeah, exactly. You put them, like, put these two people, you know, a lot of, that's exactly, that's the perfect comparison. Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. Final three loser and the first person out who he was responsible for. Yeah, that's a, yeah. Be fun.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, anybody else really popping for you for a potential returny? I mean, you know, there's a lot. So just when the whole thing goes with the graph, it goes without saying. Yeah. I mean, I just don't think, I mean, Sam, you can see it, but like, I just think that's a tough spot for Sam. Yeah. Oh, how about, let me ask the question this way. Who would be the number two pick?

For the return you say that someone said that Jeff said, I hadn't listened to that. He surprised by Saul, by Saul's popularity. Yes. But also that they said that they thought that Saul, they found Saul to be a little quiet on the island. Right. And that's typically the kiss of death for a returning player. But like, will they bring back someone who's beloved by the fan base, who was maybe like gave them less kind of heat that they wanted and confessionals?

Again, if it's like, you know, new era second chances, I think it's more likely, but if they're going to come up with a list of like, you know, they're like 20 picks out of like 700 people. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think that my, if I had to have a in the draft, I think the second pick for the returnee from survivor 47, I think is Genevieve.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're exactly right because Genevieve is a very fun character. She played hard. She's got kind of a little bit of a goofy streak and she is great in the confessional. Yeah, I think that's a really good call. I think that's right.

Who knows like a, you know, Genevieve, she gets to like seventh place. Like it feels like, okay, that's like a nice spot for a returning to come back from. I'm not out on Rachel. I think, I mean, like Rachel's like not, like she's not like a lock, like a Carolyn is a lock, but like, although I guess Carolyn is not a lot. You know, but, you know, some of you doesn't go on the traders, you know, maybe, but, you know, I feel like Rachel is competitive. Mm hmm. Okay. Steven.

I am curious to know who gets the fishy. So that's a tough one. Okay. It's not the easy season for the fishy. No. And last week I gave it to Gabe and like, you know, yeah, it's really apparently. I mean, I was considering Kyle because we haven't even talked about the shot in the dark negotiation.

Yeah. Um, where obviously there was Caroline's initial idea, but then Kyle's the one who kind of comes with this offer. Like, what do you think about getting rid of the shot in the darks? On the other hand, Kyle is probably the person who needs the shot in the dark the most. So, um, not necessarily. And then, you know, the idea that he kind of sold out Gabe, um, would be,

You know, I thought was like, maybe good for him, but I've kind of come around to the other side that it's not a great decision for Kyle here. And I just really wanted to give it to the last person who hasn't gotten it, but I don't think that's going to work out. I don't think that's right. So I'm thinking Andy, what do you think?

Fishy for Andy. I don't even think I was thinking Andy for this vote. Just because we saw so much of him like being in everybody's ear and kind of like spreading paranoia. Yeah. All right. Give me some give me some other options. All right. So I would say I would put Caroline up for suggestion. Although we kind of talked through that maybe it wasn't a great Caroline. How about Genevieve dodges the vote? Yeah. How about Rachel?

Yeah, why? I'm open to Rachel. So even though last night I was a little bit more like, I think it would probably be better for Rachel to get out Genevieve. She does ultimately, like we see her sort of like carving out her own path, sort of like recovering. Like she was in kind of a dicey spot after, you know,

at the beginning of the merge. A lot of people were talking about Rachel, especially when she escaped from the safety without power. Rachel was on a lot of people's minds, but I think also Sierra going out of the game ends up being a net positive for Rachel. She's got the situation going on with Andy. She kind of called Sam out for what he did last week. Sam says, Hey, I really want to work with you. We get from her that

She is potentially going to work with Sam, but also going to be looking out for number one. I think she has a lot of options there. She ends up getting Gabe out of the game. And so she's kind of like the biggest swing person in the game. She really could go anywhere.

What about Sam? Thundercats 78 has that. That's interesting also. Sam made moves from the bottom, got what he wanted in the gay boot, sucked it up with a shot in the dark rice situation. He kind of mended fences with Rachel, although like sort of, you know, after after last week. Mm hmm. I would not be opposed to Sam getting the shot. Has he gotten a shot a fishy yet this season?

Yeah, Kyle's the only person who's not gotten a fishy yet. But I think I might be leaning. I mean, you're very what? Sue's got an official? I guess. I don't even remember. Probably. There was one vote where she seemed to be the driver. Maybe I got, you know, I think so. Maybe. Yeah. People are saying, yeah.

I think it might be Sam actually. Yeah. I think like Sam might be. Yeah. I think Sam. All right. 50% well deserved. Yeah. Potentially he has Kyle coming over to work with them. He's in a good spot. Really bounce back from the bottom. I somehow that as we mentioned, like Sierra going out, nobody's really talking about Sam is like the biggest threat anymore.

Yeah, well, that's exactly it. I mean, Sam is like, what had all this heat on him? His name's not even coming up anymore. Yeah, and now nobody's talking about it. But he's also, like, not really in a position to be dangerous to people. He's not winning immunities. He's not, you know, pulling off moves. Like, what is his...

you know, resume. And he got to try kiwi also from joining me. He made, you know, an informed decision pineapple over kiwi. That's a, that's a great choice pineapple over kiwi who wouldn't. Okay. All right. Let's take some questions from the listeners and see what they want to know about. Okay. All right. Um,

How about, uh, Mel wants to know with all the burning of the amulets idols and shot in the dark. Do you think that Jeff will let them go back to regular survivor with no twists next season? Were you crazy? No, no. He's permanently banning this whole cast. Were you surprised though that Jeff took the deal for shots in the dark in exchange for the right? Well, what I was most surprised until that point, I was like, why are you calling this a rice negotiation? There's no negotiation happening. You know, he's like, this is the rice negotiation.

And people are like, okay, what about three? What about this? What about that? No, no, no negotiation. Yeah, like where and but then the fact like if you call it a negotiation, there has to be some kind of, you know, and that was kind of cool. I thought that was kind of cool. Is it we didn't talk about it? Is this.

a good decision. Who is this a good decision for? So I kind of thought it was a good decision for the people that are at the top specifically gay, but I thought he maybe overplayed his hand in terms of like trying to push for it because it's really the people that are at the bottom are the people that need the shot in the dark the most. Yeah, but

In terms, I think Rachel, big winner. Also, maybe a reason why she could have gotten the fishy because she doesn't have to pay anything. I kind of like that there's some poetic justice or irony. Take your pick that Rachel once upon a time tries to steal rice at a challenge. Just as Rachel, get out of here and stop stealing the rice.

Instead, she was the only person that plays her shot in the dark and then Jeff trades the rice for all the shots in the darks. Rachel pays nothing for rice and ultimately

comes away with the rice that she coveted. Should Rachel get the fishy when the one to lose the least? I don't know. We nailed it with some. We made the decision. I think it's kind of like a net nothing for everybody. I know Genevieve was like, oh, I wish I had the shot in the dark, but it's already the final nine. I think you can only play the shot in the dark until the final seven.

So there's only two more votes after this that the shot in the dark could even be played. Like the shot in the dark, I know that Caleb got it to hit at the final 12 or 13, but it feels like more of a pre merge thing. Yeah, it's a good point. I don't think it has a lot of utility at this point in the game.

Well, I thought John's point of, you know, I felt like there's better than a one and six change on love. It's point of, you know, there's better than a one and six chance that socially I can pull this, you know, versus having it be the actual one and six chance. I thought that was a good way of thinking about it. And it seems like most people do not actually view the odds of the shot in the dark.

as being outweighing the vote. And Gabe made that point. Again, Gabe, very smart talker about this game to Sam that your vote is more important to you right now than the shot in the dark is. Yeah. But this is a good question from Josh Kettles, the aforementioned Josh Kettles, that

He asked about the tribute at the end of the episode about Barb. And of course, Barb is Jeff Prob's mom, who very sadly passed away. Josh wants to know, did either of you ever meet or hear Jeff talk about his mother Barb? That was such a touching tribute.

Yeah, I never met. I never, um, I never heard Jeff talk about her, but I certainly met her, you know, she and, um, Jeff's father would come to the finales and they would sort of make more with like the, I mean, you probably had more extensive, you know, so you two were on an even numbered season. Was your finale Mother's Day?

Oh, I don't remember that. I mean, probably was around there. Yeah. So typically the survivor spring finale was May and then it typically ended up being Mother's Day weekend. And I don't remember from the survivor all stars. I do remember

meeting Jeff's mom after Survivor of the Amazon, and she was really, really nice. She was very proud of her son. She would watch the show every week. As you would expect, if your son was the host of Survivor, she was really into it. I thought that was a very nice tribute at the end of the episode.

Yeah, like to tell the next adventure, I thought, and they were just such lovely. I mean, I remember, you know, Jeff was, you know, when I was on was so intimidating and aloof, not aloof, but like, you know, he wasn't like, you know, well, he wasn't hanging out with us. So, but, but, you know, and they were like, they were there. And like, you know, to us, they were like celebrities, because they were just parents, but they were just like so, like, like the nicest people, like,

really had to be eager to talk to all of the contestants, so kind and down to her seeming. I had only a very few limited interactions with them, but they were all absolutely lovely and just so positive and wonderful.

Okay, let's take another question and Brooklyn Z asks on blue sky. Do you think that Andy's day three meltdown is the social equivalent of Tyson injuring his arm and blood versus water? Yeah, that's a good question.

I don't think it's the same because I think that people did not look at Andy as like, oh my God, like what a gifted social player. I'm trying to think of like, you know, you know, who the like, I don't know, if like, Parvati is back in like a returning player season and has like this like epic meltdown where it's like, ooh, like,

socially. That was a, that was a kind of a faux pas from Parv, uh, where that, that's kind of like what it was for Tyson with Boston Rob getting some cry, baby. I just certainly like that, that, you know, ended up being a good thing for him. Ultimately, but for Tyson, I think that there was some concern about like, Oh, Tyson could go on a run and end up winning these challenges. And then it was like his superpower was taken from him. I don't think that Andy was looked at as like this, uh, you know, uh, super powered, uh, social player.

Yeah, and I think conversely, it's sort of like, you know, in terms of like, we talked a little bit about the last season about like kind of like moving between tears. And I think it pushed him down a tier into that sort of like untouchable category where, you know, you, even the things he does do, he might not get credit for because he's already like preconceived to be, you know, like. Yeah.

Well, yeah, I think that there there is something there of like that. Did it make it sort of like disqualifying for him of like, okay, we're not worried about Andy because he has had this moment. He's not a serious person in terms of being a threat. Right. So we're not worried about him. And then he has 23 days to potentially do damage control and fix it.

Right. So, but he would really have to, you know, prove, I think he would have to have his fingerprints all over like a few moves. And I think at this point, I mean, he does kind of have that Sierra blind side, which, you know, I mean, there's, I think of Gable are all the time with Andy because like, you know, Gable are pre pre season was like in the pomfrons, like much crazier than

I will never get over that. And Andy's responsible for that first juror vote. I guess Ellie was a pre-jurary, but in the same sort of timing as Gaveler's. And now Andy's hiding in plain sight.

I do think there's some gable or upside for Andy. I'm not on that. It'll be really interesting to see if Andy gets to the final tribal council and what the response to Andy in a final tribal council would end up being. If we end up looking back at the season and if Andy is the zero vote finalist at the end of the season, that we look back and say, yeah, that the meltdown on the mat was ultimately disqualifying and Andy was drawing dead from day three and we had no idea

Or if he's able to pivot off of that story and it does have that gay blur upside that you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's the former, to be honest with you, but I would not be shocked by the latter. Okay. All right. How about, would it have been a good move for Genevieve and the Tukus to target Rachel? We know that Caroline and Jenner on to Rachel as a threat and Kyle would keep a gay Genevieve as a shield.

This is a good point and this is something you ask Gabe to in your interview, you know, why not find a consensus target? You know, if the Tuku's can work with Genevieve, like, wouldn't that be something? Right. And for Genevieve, why not? I mean, you know, to be potentially to the fifth wheel of Tuku and potentially go with them. I mean, if you're the Tuku for, if you're Gabe,

anything just to get through this vote. So why not go along with them? Now what they did not know was that Caroline and Kyle had already jumped ship. So maybe that would not have been possible. But I think if you're Genevieve, I think that that would be a worthwhile move to explore.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that would have been great. I mean, they're great for all those parties, you know, like, and so much of what happens in, um, new era survivor is determined just by how little time they have enough for anything. For Genevieve, uh, if she survives this vote voting with the Tuku for like it is not that she's going to be the next target and the people, the other three people that are left in the game are going to still be trying to figure out, well, how do we break off the Tuku?

Yeah, I thought it was interesting. Gabe was saying we were all kind of like sitting around and nobody was talking to each other. Like, I do think like, again, like just like the logistics of being in this place determines so much of it. It's like you're all in the shelter. You don't have much time left. The sun is setting. You know, that determines what happens on the show. They just did not, you know, if you had like a week and, you know, limitless time in space and if it was like a digital game, like maybe different things would happen. But, you know, the constraints, it's like tennis, the constraints determine, you know, with the strategy.

I also wonder this was a two day cycle. I'm always fascinated with like, this was one day, this was two day, this was a two day cycle. I think that coming on the heels of a bunch of one day cycles, was this almost like too much time now for the players? Like, all right, well, it's like, we can go to tribal now. I think we're ready. It's either going to be Gabe or Genevieve.

Um, yeah, the, exactly. It's like they've, they, uh, right. Yeah. Okay. Mel Hooker wants to know does, how much does Kyle remind Steven to JT? He's giving major likable winter vibes, but has no fish back to help him.

I don't know. I mean, like JT was super sharky. You know, I do appreciate like, you know, everybody who's said over the years that I was the real strategic brain there. It's not even it's not true. Like JT was extremely strategic, you know, great at like working people. I think, you know, Kyle is a lot more sort of like naivete to him, you know, in a little bit more innocence where like you don't really get the sense that he's like working all the angles and the way that JT truly was.

Okay. Let me see if there's anything else. Uh, George wants to know, uh, how did the season compare to alliances versus voting blocks? So what this group is doing? Do you have it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, honestly, it doesn't even feel like voting blocks. You know, it's just like this group for this, you know, I mean, like the closest we had to an alliance is that Tuku four and, uh, you know, um,

They all hated Joe, or at least Sue hated Kyle. It wasn't even clear that they were necessarily voting in sync so much, it's just that there was always a different, they were split for a bunch of times, there was a bigger target out there. It does feel like the alliance thing is not happening so much. We've seen the best and most successful people are the ones who work together in tight alliances.

just do it. Just stick with an alliance. It's the best strategy for survivor. It's been proven out over 47 seasons. But not too big of an alliance though. Yeah. Three people, three people alliance. Just stick with the plan. Okay. All right. I'll give you one last question. Chris Lambert says, is it actually a disadvantage to win this reward? Only three people versus six back at camp in this instance. I was listening to Tyson's podcast

this afternoon. He was talking to Kelly Nellbandian, and he was talking about how that maybe he might want to throw this challenge to be part of the six that goes back to camp. It's so hard to like, I mean, it's so hard to throw a reward. You're just so hungry. And like, that's where like, I don't know, a lot more strategy happens on the rewards than does on going back to camp because you just have this whole like winter vibe, you get food, it powers you for the immunity.

I don't know. I don't think I could ever. I mean, in fairness, the plan that that got executed at tribal council was the plan that was hatched on the reward challenge. That's it. That's right. I mean, like Tyson probably would have a whole stash of coconuts to go back to. I would not have that stash. So I would probably I would have as well fed greed and hunger would just not be able to.

I didn't have any problem throwing immunity challenges. The reward challenge is, I don't know. Did you throw a lot of immunity challenges? I mean, I wanted to throw more than I could. You know, they're the, I mean, I don't know how specific you want to get here. It's open sheets or second chances. Second chances. The eating challenge, I wanted to throw, but it's basically, it's really hard to throw an eating challenge. But that was in the pre-merge, right?

Yeah, but the dynamic- Well, because you wanted to go with Joe. Joe. And it would have been so good, because Kelly had her idol. Everyone would have thought it was Kelly. She probably would have played her idol. She was definitely not playing it for Joe. And we would have got Joe and Flush Kelly's idol. Oh my God. And that's one of those, like, what might have been moments for me in Survivor? Because, like, how can you throw an eating challenge? It's, like, impossible. I mean, I could have eaten very slowly, but there were a few examples where, like, the other group was just, like, totally screwing it. So I was, like, looking to see if there was any. If it had been down to me, the final point was mine, I would have thrown it.

Okay, yeah. It would have been like Survivor China when James is trying to throw the challenge to lunch lady Denise. And like fail again. And then he's finally like, okay, I'll eat the balloon. Couldn't be done. All right. Steven, what's coming up for you?

I don't know. Nothing. You know, I'm over on this guy. I got to say, Rob, I'm a little, it's a little, you know, I'm really enjoying Blue Sky and it's really fun to like live live speed over there. It's like, that's nice. Kind of like I have a club you're at. I'm sure I'm kind of bummed. Yeah. You know, the, the group is fractured and there's still people on Twitter. There's people like, what do you want that happen? You want everybody to come back into Twitter?

I want everyone to be together wherever it is. You know, you know, and this is how I've been describing it because I think that Twitter is still the ocean. I think that that is sort of like where those guys the captain.

No, not the captain, but I think that blue that blue sky is a little bit more like the group chat. Like I think that there's probably going to be like more like a conversation, especially around this thing of ours and what we do. Like I think there's going to be like more like feedback about the shows and like people like telling us what they think and us being able to comment back. I think that's going to happen more on blue sky. But I do feel like that that Twitter is still

the place where you're going for, hey, this thing is happening. This is where you're getting some information from, and then it's a little bit more of the, okay, let's go into the private meeting room a little bit more, the public private meeting room.

But I liked having those conversations like in sync, you know, with like, you know, the people that I was corresponding with all the time, you know, Dr. Amanda and Josh Kettles and like, you know, that good, you know, Heather. And then, and then also like the total randoms whose names were just a string of consonants, you know, like, like, and then getting like, it was all happening in the same place. And I liked that. I mean, also like, not for nothing, but you know, Twitter, I had like 65,000 followers on blue sky. Like I barely have more followers than David Bloomberg. You know, how terrible that feels. It's humiliating. It's humiliating.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, you can find Steven Fishback on blue sky at stevenfishback.bksy.app.

Yeah, that's right. I'm there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you, the year Rob's there too. There was like some question about it, whether it was the real Rob or not. Yeah. You know what I had? And actually one of the best features about blue sky and Josh Kettles, he's like Beetlejuice now he has to show up that

He has been running a starter pack for different things. Chappelle had created one also, but it's actually like the one cool feature that they have over Twitter of that you could just go to blue sky and then here's like a list of things and you could just follow them all where Twitter does not have that same kind of functionality. So, but what I was worried about was that I joined and then I had not followed people. I didn't want people to be like, oh, he followed this person, but didn't follow him.

Yeah. Well, that's the other thing, like, because, like, you don't really see, it's so hard to, like, see who's following you. It's got a list and they've got all the, like, that blue sky, that, whatever. Like, I'm sure there are people who are, who I'm not following, who I used to follow. And so, you know, holler at me. So, yeah, give us some grace. It's probably an oversight. If we're not following somebody who's very important.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So that's going to do it for the know-it-alls. Be able to look out for my interview with Carolyn coming up tomorrow. A very fun one-on-one with Carolyn. Very much looking forward to that. Then also Club Kondo is coming back on Monday. I believe Brandon Donlin is scheduled to join Chappelle and I for a fun club.

condo. And if you missed it, check out my interview with Q and everything else here in our survivor podcast video. We know survivor.com. Thank you so much. Take care of it. Good one. Bye. Bye.

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