I saw in Auschwitz that if a dominant group wants to dehumanize others, so as the Nazis wanted to dehumanize me, these dominant groups must first be dehumanized in a way themselves by diminishing their empathy due to propaganda and indoctrination.
in order to be able to be as cruel as somewhere, okay? But the same holds nowadays for Israel. I am appalled about how hateful, how dehumanized that they do not see any human aspect in any Palestinian anymore. It's terrible. The Zionists have not any right whatsoever.
to use the Holocaust for any purpose. They have given up everything which has to do with humanity, with empathy, for one thing, the state, the blood and soil, just like the Nazis.
Welcome to Free State, everyone. Sadly, we couldn't get our machine open running there entirely to witness. Quite a good Joe Brawley blowout with papers flying, various things been thrown across the room.
Of course, you curse in a very kind of Victorian way. You always use terms that I've never understand and you're talking about penny far things and various things in a film like any sense to me when you're cursing. But I do think if wonder sometimes, again, if we have another situation where there's the internet, we must look into
What the new deep-seq AI can do for Joe Raleigh? This advanced Chinese AI doesn't seem to be capable of anything, so I would like to deliver the prompts. Deep-seq AI is, for example, they already pondered their product of deep-seq AI.
Do you think it's better than if you think it's another level? I'm not susceptible to that stuff. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
you know, being tame in the face of injustice or anything like that again. You know that art, you know, we've talked, obviously we talked about art a lot during the time of the flip-flops and all that and round-tubbery and we've talked about it again and you've talked about the $725 million and what it means and why we might disagree on the
actual deliberative consequence of that, that there is definitely a consequence. But one of the things I noticed the other day is that even the weather forecast is sponsored.
And the drive time RT radio show, which is, I would have considered it a news program, is sponsored. And obviously, yeah, I know what you're going to say next by Israel. No, I'm going to say Israel, but I'm going to say, we'll come back to that. But what I'm going to say is, again, when you look at the money they got from the government, and this is the thing we often talked about, when you actually want to have a thriving media, you have to look beyond
just RTE. And it's important to look just beyond RTE. And we have invested interest in this because we are competitors in the media like everybody else.
But when you have that government money, and then you're saying, well, actually, do you want to sponsor the weather? Do you want to sponsor our news programs? And you know, this is not to, and like Sarah McInerney and Cormac O'Hara who present that are really excellent presenters. You don't have to, you see, this is another problem. You don't have to live in everything by saying, well, but you know, on the other hand, you know, this sort of disease of balance, I mean, if you're going to make a point, just make a point.
I have to condemn first of all Hamas's atrocity on the 7th of October. Can we just say something that we need instead of do another old stuff? You know, you complain about the passive voice being used by the mainstream media in relation to Israel's depredations. You complain about these questions in relation to the IRA, Sweden.
Well, they don't use the passive voice, or they don't use the passive voice to listen to that, nor do you. And I was trying to find this. This week, I noticed that they had a headline in their website. Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has vowed to defy proposals to remove Palestinians from war-battered Gaza after US President Donald Trump's idea that they could have a new home in Jordan and Egypt. But remove?
Ethnic cleansing is now a removal as though it's doing the people of Gaza a favor. And I know it's one of the things we're going to talk about today, but I wanted to jump off, Dion, I don't know if you've seen it, but I read it, but it's an extraordinary book written by the Indian academic and historian, Pankaj Mishra, the world after Gaza.
You know, I know we've sort of not so much avoided Gaza, but, you know, I think like a lot of people of good conscience, you know, we've succumbed to sort of a desperate sort of despair where you just are part of it.
The Polish poet Chezla Milosz, who lived beside the Warsaw ghetto and very comfortable surroundings, very comfortable and middle-class surroundings. And you know, there have been multiple comparisons made by Jewish academics and historians and Israeli Holocaust experts between the extermination of the Warsaw ghetto and what has happened in Gaza. He recalled hearing screams from the Warsaw ghetto
A beautiful quiet night from our home in the outskirts of Warsaw. The screaming gave us goose pimples. They were the screams of thousands of people being murdered. The sounds coming into the silence of our gardens where the air was fragrant and a man felt that it was good to be alive.
You know, I'd say I wept on our head that, you know. He said, you know, when he was living in Berkeley in California during the time when the U.S. military was committing genocide against millions of Vietnamese people.
an atrocity that we lost compared to the crimes of Hitler and the British Empire. He said, if we are capable of compassion at the same time or a parless, we live in a state of desperate exasperation. And, I mean, is it not true that this annihilation of Gaza by Israel, you know, supported and applauded by the so-called Western democracies?
have inflicted this psychic ordeal on people and young people all over the world for well over a year. And for us to see such political evil, to see such
you know, atrocity being committed. And then for us to look around in our own worlds and think, geez, it's great to be alive, myself and yourself chappening with football and cows and everything else, you know. And then, you know, you see an elderly, down syndrome and gazin, you know.
You know, and the idea of unleashing all Asian dogs on them, what will they savagem to death? And you think to yourself, Jesus Christ.
Well, I think you always have gone wrong for the world, you know? Well, I think it's also instructive that people who felt, you know, and we've talked about it, you know, you're right, maybe we should have talked about it more, but, you know, the Biden administration's complicity in this, we now see that
Donald Trump, the first person he wants to visit him is Benjamin Netanyahu. He's looking on Gaza, as you say. He's looking on the destruction of Gaza and the annihilation of the people as a property opportunity, as Jared Kushner has done before his son-in-law.
And when Trump lives in his own imagination, it's very interesting. I was thinking about that as he talked about the clip of him talking about the wonderful, you know, short line development and all that kind of stuff. I was thinking there's an remarkable film, which I don't know if you've watched yet, called This is Gaza.
which was shown on Channel 4. We're recording on Wednesday afternoon. It went out last night on Wednesday night, and it's by Emmy Award-winning documentary maker, Yusef Hamash, who sent it to us yesterday. I'm sort of afraid to watch it, you know. Well, it's extraordinary. It's really a training last night, and so when a camera thought, Jesus, the baby was up, and she was... Well, yeah. And he said, Jesus Christ.
No, I would like it is, it is. And I watched it sitting at my desk because it was on my laptop and you're sitting at your desk and you know, when you watch something like that, you sometimes look away, you do other things, you've tabs open, you've things open and then you come back and you see, you know, you just, you know, relentless, the relentless clips of what is happening. And then, you know, the story, you know, he is now in London. And again, like,
It's become, and it's that awful thing. And I think this speaks to something you say about us.
like that inevitability of certain things in human nature that you become desensitized and things, like he's saying things which we hear so often that they have less meaning, like he's in London wondering why is the world doing nothing about this? And yet we, how often have we heard that? How often do we hear that there? But there are fascinating parallels with the Holocaust, the sure.
I mean, it's just an unimaginable horror.
Mark Edelman, who was one of the survivors of the Warsaw, got one of the leaders of the Jewish Resistance there. And I mean, boy, did they show courage. He wrote, you know, all it was about in the end was, are not letting them slaughter us when our turn came. It was only a choice as to the manner of our dying. We wanted to die with courage. And he said, you know,
Why has no one answered her call? My greatest fear, he said, is that nobody in the world is noticing a thing and nothing, no message about us is making it art. That was from behind the walls of the Warsaw ghetto. This, of course, isn't the case in Gaza where the victims are
you know, saying, look, we're being murdered, they're attacking the hospital, you know, and then they're dead a few hours later, you know, when the journalists are saying, look, they're targeting us, they're killing us, please help, you know, and yet the sort of live streaming liquidation of a people is, and it's such a huge affront, I think, to our sense of humanity more than everything.
And I know that we've been accused, I've been accused of anti-Semitism because of, you know, the way we have, I think, just human terrorism reacted to what's happening, you know? And all of the rest of it, too.
It was been in the gravelly, the Irish lawyer who said that the International Court of Justice last year, you know, these people are broadcasting their own destruction in real time and the desperate so far vain hope that the world might do something. And meanwhile, we've got, you know, young fellow,
rang me yesterday, he wants to be a barrister. And he wants to be involved in human rights law. He's in Trinity. He's studying the Grenassal law there in human rights law, which I studied under Carter Osmol, who was one of the first ministers in Nelson Mandela's new unity government after the apartheid regime was destroyed. I find it very difficult to say to him, look, you know, this is something you should get into.
It's just completely poisoned. You've got, you know, the leaders of the Western world, Germany, the UK, the US attacking the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice.
You have the mainstream media sacking anyone who is prepared to report the truth about what's been happening. We saw the 50 BBC journalists letter of complaint about how editorially they've been forced to take a resolutely pro-Israel line.
Every day these people are being murdered. The children are being murdered, you know, and we see the videos. We see the police from journalists and authors and courts and Gaza. You know, in 1990 at Bill Clinton was the guest of water at one of the most as it was then one of the most famous one of the most beautiful theaters in the world. And
The Israelis just bombed it to oblivion a few months ago. You know, and Daryl.
How do you react when you see the way that, as you say, Joe Biden's stony-faced absolute support for this annihilation? And then this works, the sarcastic works by himself and by the spokespeople in the White House.
you know, whenever a journalist in the White House recently was trying to make us point and say the kind of accepting this answer. I mean, every time we asked about neutrality, you say our partners in Israel are investigating issues. He's dragged out of the press conference, you know, an elderly journalist who's simply asking questions. And I mean, one of the things that
Mistry wrote in his book. And of course, after Mistry wrote the book, I mean, he's one of the great writers of the world, one of the greatest historians and was very pro-Israel until around about 2001, 2002, when he visited the West Bank. Yeah, we hope to get him on. Yeah, well, I mean, that would be great. But one of the things that he wrote
Those driven to scan Joe Biden's face for some sign of mercy, some sign of an end to bloodletting, found only in the early smooth hardens, broken only by a nervous smirk when he blurted out Israeli lies that Palestinians had beheaded Jewish babies. Righteous hopes aroused by this or that United Nations resolution, frantic appeals from humanitarian groups. You know, strictures from the judges at the Hague at International Court
all of our hooks were brutally dashed, an epic landscape of misery and failure, anguish and exhausting. The problem I suppose in a way and in service that it's done to humanity is to see precisely how the Western democracies work.
You know, the applause and indifference of the powerful as this extermination has unfolded. And, you know, it seems to me
you know, there's a theory that's propounded by a lot of academics that protected a lot of academics from the post-colonial world, you know, in the Pakistan, the global South. Yeah, the global South and Africa, et cetera, but that, you know, you've got this
Nazi assault on the Jews, you know, is horrific, genocide over people, you know, and all of that. And you look back, you know, and historians would say that the news of their mass murder as it started to seep out was met with skepticism and indifference in the West, especially in America, which was a hotbed of anti-Semitism.
and all over Europe, which was extremely anti-Semitic, including the UK, which were one of the worst offenders. And as George Orwell wrote in February 1844, reports of atrocities against the Jews are bouncing off consciences here like peas off a steel helmet. And don't forget that after the war,
Western leaders declined to admit large number of Jewish refugees. They declined to give them a place to live. In Germany could have given them a state, a large state there, which would have been ample for them in such a huge vast country, so well-resourced as a penance for what they'd done. But in fact, what happened was that
The West haven't turned their backs on the Jewish people. Then, facilitated, facilitated an ethnic cleansing of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust, people whose hands were absolutely clean. You know,
You think to yourself, look, it would have been very easy for the Western leaders to say, look, we absolutely support and understand the necessity of Israel pursuing and bringing to justice the
militants who committed those terrible war crimes against Israeli people on the 7th of October. These are targeted operations. We support you 100%. We'll give you all the resources that you're required to do that within the law. And all of that will be your support done. But instead, they've given unconditional support to a genocide. Yeah.
You asked yourself this, why did Joe Biden repeatedly claim to have seen his atrocity videos that don't exist? And he said that, I've seen them myself. Cear Stomer, the Cear Stomer, talk about Stony Feast. I mean, he's described as a former human rights lawyer, you know. I mean, honestly, I mean, the great human rights activists will be turning in their graves.
He said that Israel has the right to withdraw power and water from the Palestinian people. He said that he methodically sacked and punished anybody in the Labour Party who was calling for a ceasefire. It is that phrase, the right to defend itself, which
became, again, like so many things in this have became a cliche, but it was repeated so often, and it is a meaningless term, because as you said, there was, you know, and we talked about this in the weeks after October 7th, that, you know, and I remember quoting from, you know, Mark Namis' pieces after 9-11,
talking about the courage to almost do nothing in this situation or to do little or not to do what Israel was intent on doing, because defending yourself
What we've seen isn't defending yourself. Even by its own definition, it's been something that has made the Israel more unstable, more threatened. It's created what it has done for generations in terms of
you know, Gazans and Palestinians in terms of how, you know, you, you radicalize and encourage people to resist is going to be, you know, we won't know that that that's that's a 20, 30 year story, 40 year story. And so the leader of Hamas saw his, saw his father being murdered by the Israel East when he was. But like this comes back to us. It's just goes around and
But it all comes back to a kind of thing when you talk about the West and this and I do think there's something kind of there's a complacency
in so many Western governments. You know, I totally agree with you about how Keir Starmer has been on this, but you look at how he has been in general, that sense of absolute low energy, assuming power and clearly having nothing really wanting to do nothing with it or not knowing what he wants to do with it. I'm not sure with that. It's clearly a decidedly
neoliberal right-wing program. He's going to lose the next election this morning. Just this morning. He said that like Margaret Thatcher, we are going to deregulate. We are going to deregulate. We're going to support business. A labor leader raising Margaret Thatcher.
It's not just that that he hasn't done anything. In fact, it's the opposite. He's been absolutely petty in pursuit of anyone who is not giving unqualified support to this genocide.
I mean, America, exactly the same. I mean, American billionaires launched smear campaigns against crew testers on college campuses. You know, kids were expelled from Ivy League universities. Deans of Ivy League universities were dragged before Congress, ruthlessly cross-examined and then sucked at the behest of billionaire donors. Young people barred from jobs, you know,
And, you know, as you people say, like my son said to me recently, you know, only like 16 years, we just say, she's there. Why is some? Why is everyone supporting the Ukraine people, but not the people in Palestine? Why is that like when you turn on the news?
I mean, there was a headline in the BBC a few days ago, three generations of Ukrainian family wiped out in Russian airstrikes on their home. And meanwhile, if there's any incident involved in the Palestinians, it's the passive voice.
We just quoted the BBC piece about the removal of people from Gaza. You look at how, for example, when the hostages were released, the four ADF soldiers who were released the other day.
who I have to say, and I don't say this in any, in any, you know, triumphant where Yahabu but they did look and I was delighted to see that they looked in good health and they looked to have been, you know, well looked after. And, you know, the huge media interest in that and the very sympathetic stories and the interviews and the first items and all the news is, you know,
And there are still 4,000 Palestinians, many of them children, detained without charge indefinitely. And these Israeli Gulags, which is what they are. And I mean, just earlier in 2024, video footage of the prison guards, you know, heating, puckers, steel puckers, heating them, and then jamming them up the rectums of these prisoners, you know,
was just gladly ignored by the mainstream media. I mean, the videos went around all right. But it was blatantly ignored. And it's the obvious use of propaganda by the media that has also helped to completely poison the discourse. I mean, the Daily Mail and other mainstream media in January last year
They ran with the headline, Israel prepares for a horror scenario that reaped hostages held by Hamas, will return home pregnant with terrorist's children. Okay. So that was one of the narratives. Now we know that no one was real. Okay. Various organizations with no one ever came forward, no reaping to reserve a discovery in spite of the propaganda that was pumped out initially, which caused a really great outrage if that were true.
The BBC last week ran an interview. Finally, they had found a hostage who had been raped. Did you see the interview? No. And it was an ADF soldier who was thankfully looking in good health. And she was asked whether she'd been subjected to any violence. And she said, no. And was there any sexual violence? She said, I was raped.
And the interviewer said, that's terrible to do. You want to talk about that? She says, well, I always try to explain. This is word for word. I always try to explain to people that be a bizarre, really big word. I wasn't physically raped, but the guys who were guarding me stared at me a lot. And trust me, that is rape. And this is the sort of thing that's passing for
News. This is where we are.
Think about Deanna Erlich, who was the Irish, the Israeli ambassador to Ireland. It really misses Goebbels, I call her. I mean, it's shocking to listen to her. But again, getting a lot of our airtime and RTE and last week, after she had attacked President Higgins for his address, first of all, for having the torment to merity, to attend the Holocaust commemoration.
in the company of two survivors of the Holocaust, who are our personal friends of the president. And we know what our president thinks of the Holocaust. A zeti right thinking person with one of the most shocking events in human history. And she said when she was an RTE,
But it's a tragedy when she was asked by the RT anchor. I mean, what other liberal democracy has killed over 50,000 people, mostly civilians, 70% women. David McCullough has asked. And she said, well, it is, I agree, it's a terrible tragedy. What Hamas has done to all those innocent civilians.
and harking back to, you know, and this is what the Americans say. It's what Kirsta Emerson is. It's what the Germans say now. It's terrible. What a mass is done as though somehow
They have been annihilating their own people, you know, destroy their hospitals and their holy place, et cetera. But Goldemire, who is, you know, the first Israeli president, first Israeli, and named in amongst the top 10 Israelis of the 20th... I suppose they only go back as far as, I mean, it was really only established in 1940 at Israel. She said, I will never forgive the Arabs for forcing us to kill their children.
And it's amazing how that remains the narrative. You know, Palestinians have somehow become excluded from the community of human obligations, responsible. These excluded from the word legal order, you know. And as George Orwell concluded in 1945, Palestine, he said, is a color issue. Gandhi said exactly the same thing. No.
Almost every post-colonial country refused to recognize the new state of Israel, India, China, Indonesia, who had all suffered terrible genocides. India lost 100 million people during the British Empire's genocide there.
And Mandela always said, look, I don't free free until the apartheid system in Palestine, until the Palestinians are free. Not the Palestinians are free. It was a bit like, but like, what Chris Mullen said, whenever, sorry, what he come from the Guilford for was released, he said, well, wait, we'll never, we'll never be free under the Birmingham six or three, you know. And it really looked at America, for example, the politicians not going to get elected now.
if he isn't resolutely cruel Israel and everything that they do. I mean, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, we know how powerful we are. They spent more than $25 million this cycle to defeat two black Democratic reps, Jamal Bowman and Corey Bush, who were critical of what they were doing in Gaza. You know, I'm calling for a ceasefire, calling for a ceasefire. And it's difficult to resist James Baldwin
He talked about the pious silence around Israel's behavior. But he said, the real problem that the people of Palestine face is that Israel embodies white supremacy around the world, which is why it has the unqualified support of the Western colonial powers on America. He wrote,
The Jews are white men. And when white men rise up against oppression, they are heroes. But when black or brown men rise, they have only reverted to their native savagery. And we see this language dehumanizing the Palestinians. You know, there were synonymous. Their human animals was what the Israeli defense minister said. And so where the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto was quite rightly described as one of the most heroic courageous events in human history.
You know, the uprising in Gaza is described as terrorism, you know, by these human animals.
I think there'd be plenty of Jewish people who would say, and you'd have to look at the experience of Jewish people through centuries, that they were never seen as, there were plenty of white people prepared to... Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, they're indiscriminate against them and to view them in the most horrific way and treat them in the most horrific way. But it is interesting. You're absolutely correct. You're absolutely correct. And this sort of...
thesis that it's convenient for the Western colonial powers to promote the Holocaust as the parable of genocide, because it means that Britain doesn't have to account for its far worse genocidal pass than the Nazis. Belgium doesn't have to account for what it did in the Congo. I mean, there are depredations in the Congo, maybe the worst thing that's ever happened to humanity. The Americans dropping
nuclear bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Japan, you know, causing grotesque deformity to this day. Their extermination of over a million Vietnamese civilians. But it's convenient then, in a way, and this is one of the thesis of Mishra's great book, that it's convenient for them to say, well, look, you know, the Nazis. That was the one.
concentrate on that, to build that up, so that all these other, I mean, it's loan academics, as you know, who are pointing out, now, belittantly, the evils, I mean, the grotesque evils of the British Empire. Yeah, I don't think you need to have that kind of water battery to talk about. No, I'm not, but it is interesting that what you see, for example, I mean, Keir Starmer was at the at the at the Holocaust, where he went Auschwitz, you know,
I mean, he's just a atrocious hypocrite. There he is, rightly talking about never again, it must never happen again. But it has fallen to Jewish academics, historians, Jewish survivors of Holocaust around the world to speak the truth, because people are afraid to speak the truth. You know.
I mean, the Iranian thinker Ali Shariati, in 1967, he said, why should the Western Christianity give up Islamic Palestine as a payoff for what they did to the Jewish people? Why wouldn't they give up a part of Poland where they put the Jews under the most terrible torture?
Why didn't they give part of the Federal Republic of Germany as compensation for the Holocaust? Why should Christianity compensate for its torture of the Jews during the past 2000 years from the pocket of Islam? Why should the West pay for its crimes from the empty pockets of the Middle East nations? And, you know, the state of Israel, and this is the truth, was formed to solve a Western problem.
I mean, the State of Israel was a diaspora of desperate Jewish people, the survivors of what had happened. And it's striking when you look down. I've been reading a lot around Jewish academics, historians, Holocaust experts. It's virtually impossible to find a Jewish person with a certain age.
whose parents, whose grandparents weren't murdered by the Nazis. And I mean, it has fallen to the Jewish people around the world to tell the truth. I mean, Irina Klypfitz, who's the famous Jewish poet and writer from Germany. She lives in Germany. She was a child survivor of the Holocaust. And she said this week, never again was supposed to mean never again.
You know, we have the power to stop this. Never again, never just never again for the Jewish people. Our pin has been weaponized. You know.
It's like that that history and the like, you know, there's some amazing like the way I think it was 1958 before West Germany as it was set up an agency to investigate Nazi crimes like that was 13 years after
and the war. And they had to push it because the Western powers went visionate. Well, but yeah, but also I think, and I think this is the thing when you look at Israel and you look at
And I kind of tend to go with the sort of Christopher Hitchens view of the state of Israel. Like, you know, Hitchens said it was created like for like it was superstitious. There was lots of reasons to be against it as a creation. But then he said, all, you know, many states are created through foolishness. And you kind of, you know, it's
It's what you do with the situation as it pertains now. And I can see why when you look, when you lay out that context, when you see why in Israel people became, you know, that sense of being, you know, having to, being under siege took out, you know, and I was reading, I was reading the Hannah Arendt, you know, I think. There are very few people, there are very few people living in Israel now, very few Israelis.
who were born there. You know, they, you know, and certainly their families, you know, this was essential. Well, no, there's plenty of people who live in there now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the point was this, that this was a huge day, a sport of desperate homeless Jewish people from around the world who were not
who were not being resettled by the Western powers, the Western colonial powers. I went to the Gestapo Museum in Cologne a few years ago, and until 1978 I think it was just an office block, and it was actually the Gestapo headquarters in Cologne.
It was one man started picketing it saying, this is where the Gestapo tortured and killed people. And it was, you know, until then it was, there was people who were ignoring that this is, this is the history of the West. But it's also, when you say that, like that is the point in a way, like it is from that, you know, that sense of kind of being abandoned.
You see, nobody loathed. Nobody loathed and feared the Jewish people and propagated those antisemitic myths more than the Western powers. I mean, it was the Western powers who were responsible for the demonization over, you know, really since historical records began, demonization, destruction, pogroms against the Jewish people. The Western world, that's where it happened, okay?
And for me, one of the most striking things is that these countries who were most responsible, Germany, the UK, the anti-Semitism in America and white America, was shocking. And we could devote an entire program to that. But these Western powers
who once deemed the Jewish population to be interminced, like lower than low, indigestible, and anything goes in relation to them.
they have become the most belligerent supporters of Israel. And you think about it, like the evangelical, the white evangelical movement in America, the militias in America, the Elon Musk's of this world, the far right, these were the Jew haters, and now all of a sudden, Orban and Hungary, for example,
No, no, they are, you know, this sort of liberal democracy, this liberal sort of neo-liberalism, these historic Ayatty Semite, white countries and white nationalists, they are the most fervent defenders of Israel. And I think that there's a reason for that, because it obscures the sins of the great colonial powers. It's convenient to say,
The Holocaust, that was the genocide. Let's not get into the other stuff around the UK or the US or all that other stuff. That was the genocide and look how we support Israel. Look how we stamp out any signs of anti-Israel behavior. Of course, as so many Holocaust survivors have said,
Professor Peter Vainhart of the New York University. He said about never again. We in the United States could have stopped this. Instead of inscribing the names of our ancestors on the US funding bills and the bombs that have destroyed Palestinians, we could have stopped this.
He said, now we'll not stop writing, not the Israeli government halt, such as genocidal attacks on Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank. He had his epiphany when he went to the West Bank in 2004. He used to be one of Israel's most prominent US defenders and his new book is called Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza. He's another guest that we hope to get on. I've sent the emails. Maybe we'd better come from you deal.
She finds out what an anti-Semite I am. But he said that, you know, the most disturbing thing is the way the Western powers have been able to rationalize this genocide, a story of unbelievable horror of genocide of apartheid. You know, what Israel has done in Gaza is the most profound desecration of the central idea of the absolute, I find it very difficult to read this at infinite worth of every human being.
The organised US, UK, German, Israeli, lobby, acts as if Palestinians of no value, their deaths are dismissed as though they are less than animals. And he writes in his book, you know, it was a real shock to me because I had grown up in this environment when I first met and engaged with the people of the West Bank. I realised that they were ordinary human beings, generous, beautiful. Just like us.
But you see, he can say that. And I noticed this week that Professor Amos Goldberg, who's the, he's the Jonah M. Machover Chair in Holocaust Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He wrote, in Le Monde, this is a genocide. And people ask what the evidence is. Doesn't no longer exist. Have a look for yourself.
And then he went on to write a very detailed piece about Israel's genocide, his own country's genocide and the Journal of Genocide Research. And no one here, no one in the Western media, no one in the West has prepared to say these things.
I mean, Omar Schatz, who's an Israeli law professor, he just last week filed a landmark case with the International Criminal Court against Netanyahu and the main Israeli officials for incitement to genocide. Meanwhile, in America, Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son-in-law, bloodless sort of vampiric man, he was announced in the
Wall Street Journal has doubled his strike in the Israeli firm that is, quote, turbocharging Israeli settlements in Palestine, which is a war crime under Article 49 of the 4th Geneva Convention. I'm Donald Trump saying it's a wonderful piece of real estate, you know, safe front, perfect. He said perfect for development. No.
Not a single that I can think of. If you can think of any, please tell me, not a single Western leader, criticized Donald Trump's call for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Did you hear anybody criticizing him? No. You know, what do we say to our kids like? Hurrettes this week, which I get every day. In Gaza, this is Dr. Guy Chelef, a renowned Israeli physician.
In Gaza, they're amputating the limbs of children without painkillers. We must try to imagine our children going through that. You know, when he talked about the deliberate destruction of Gaza's health system. And Keir Starmer will say, well, you know, I mean Hamas were using the hospitals as centers for their deployment. Well, we all know that that's life, but as long as they keep saying it,
Hmm, you know, it insulates the nice wars against reality.
I mean, this thing this week about President Higgins, the attacks by Daniel Ehrlich and these other horror shows. And then you've me, Hall Martin, leaning into that, adopting the definition of anti-Semitism, which includes any criticism of Israel's actions. This isn't any criticism. Well, it really does.
But Professor Hajou Meyer, who's a Holocaust survivor and physicist, he talked about this idea that President Higgins should not have mentioned what Israel is doing in Gaza in his Holocaust commemoration speech, which I thought was a beautiful speech and, as always, was President Higgins respectful to humanity.
Well, I thought that the mistake, I thought what was more than mistake was to eject the people who protested. I think you're, I thought, I agree with you about his speech, but I felt let the people protest. It is a mode of subject. And they do. Yeah, but it's just like, that's what happened to me. They've got security there from whatever security firm and just fireboys out, you know, if they start roaring. But they weren't roaring. They were just turning their backs and brothers.
They were roaring, you can hear them journey speech. I listened to the full speech, they were roaring. Don't be a politician from one they would then deliberately, they would then deliberately.
to sort of, you know, attack the fact that the president was there, because this was a property. This was a propaganda coup for them, and I knew about the same thing. That's all it was. It was to go in and blacken the president, to go in and blacken Ireland, and to say these fucking Irish auntie Samates, which was a disgrace. When I saw, if people send up and shout, that's one thing, but if people turn their back in protest in silence, let them have their protest. Well, they didn't do that.
They would have been fine being able to do that. Anyway, I wouldn't throw anybody out by smoothing the end. You know, you have to hear what the man's saying. But Professor Haizhul Meijer, who's a Holocaust survivor and physicist, he said this. He said, I saw in Auschwitz myself that if a dominant group wants to dehumanize other human beings, they must first dehumanize themselves. The same holds nowadays for Israel. The people of Israel have been completely dehumanized, treated. Palestinians is the lowest of the law.
I am appalled about how hateful, how dehumanized they are. They do not see any human aspect than any Palestinian. These Zionists have no right to use the Holocaust for their twisted purposes. They have given up everything that has to do with humanity and empathy.
Who said that, Jeff? That's Professor Hijo Meyer, H-A-J-O-M-E-Y-E, or a Holocaust survivor himself. And it is interesting that we are driven to
cooked, you know, Israelis and Jews. I mean, the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto comparison, people in the West are afraid to make that comparison. But, you know, Professor Michel Winroth, you know, the Jewish Canadian historian has written a treatise on that and multiple, multiple Jewish academics have done with it, you know. And the Holocaust is not
a legitimizer of brute violence and injustice. And that's how the Israelis are using it. And that's what they were doing when they went down to disrupt President Higgins, very sensitive. And I thought beautiful commemoration of the Holocaust.
This idea that we are getting on Levi, the great Israeli thinker and editor of Heretz was on our podcast. He said this. The propaganda is that we are the only victim. No one else has ever been a victim and no one can ever be a victim because we suffered the Holocaust and therefore we can do whatever we like. Remember he said that to us.
Well, the history of the world is that every oppressed people can become an oppressor. That's the truth. And I suppose more disturbing than anything is that normally a state like that would be isolated. But because that's not how white supremacy works, and we see now that we're all part of a white supremacist world, that the Irish government are afraid to enact the occupied territory spell.
They're not going to do that now. They said they would before the election to get elected, though they're not going to do that. And we see the intellectual despotism at universities, museums, publishers, banks, any sort of job. That's becoming more and more punitive as this sort of reckless slaughter of innocence and Gaza has continued.
I was really taken by a piece that I read this week. I think it was by Amos Goldberg, Professor Goldberg, and he was talking about this shield that Israel has and how, you know, whatever we do.
You know, we can simply say, well, you know, we were the victims of the Holocaust. And how dare you suggest that we are doing that? It's absolutely a register to compare this to all the questions. And you saw, for example, in the North, all the DUP politicians, all the white supremacists, Emma Little Congale.
I wouldn't call her a white supremacist, I think. Well, she is a white supremacist. I mean, that's what the DUP is. I mean, the DUP in its inception and in their outlook on the world, that's what they have been in my view. But she was piling in on Professor, she was piling in on President Higgins, as was the rest of the DUP.
And anyway, the point it was good to me was that the professor said, you know, this genocide that's going on, he said, all we could do is hoop. You know, he said, at the moment, there's a ceasefire. All we can do is hoop against hoop. But there will be a peace process that
that the world and the Western powers who are in a position, who are the only people in a position to facilitate this, will insist on a peace process now. A proper peace process for Palestinians are no longer living in a prison, an open-air prison, where they will have normal, whether they were human rights, like all the rest of his basic stuff. But he said, because Israel has no strategy,
I fear that very soon they will resume bombing the people of Gaza. We see what's happening in the West Bank now and we see what's happening with the ban on Amra and various things like that, for we will
You do these podcasts. I know that David Hickey, the greatest living Irish person, the great Transplant Surgeon, father of the Oregon Donation System in Ireland, a great servant of all their people. In spite of his cancer and all the terrible things that he has suffered over the years, he's at the forefront of these demonstrations that go to the embassy, the Israeli embassy in the door, and then he writes and he does his best.
And he remains us, he remains us, about the sort of broader human condition, the obligation that the living have to the innocent dead who will. And we must try to keep our faith that there is such a thing, there is a solid heart between human beings and there is such a thing as a common morality.
He will talk to you again when we read back on Saturday. Thanks for listening, everybody. Talk to you soon. And the United States is so complicit in this. It's so complicit in this. And as an American citizen, it's shameful and feels shame about it.
And to me, it's just, it seems impossible to fathom that this is going on right now. At the end of the war, people said never again. And to a lot of us, not just me, I'm not unique at all. The lot of us, it was never again to anyone, not just Jews.
We in the United States have supported this all along. We had the power to end it. We had the power to take away the 1,000 pound bombs, the 2,000 pound bombs. I think one of the most critical things that we can do is to push for the United States to stop arming Israel.