High Revenue, Big Challenges: Scaling a £1M Hair Extension Business
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January 06, 2025
TLDR: Entrepreneurs James and JB chat with Holly from a £1M hair extension business about breaking growth boundaries for expansion.

In this episode of the Business Broadcast Podcast, James and JB explore the significant challenges facing Holly Rose, an entrepreneur who has successfully scaled her hair extension business to a £1M turnover within a year. This blog summarizes their rich conversation focusing on Holly's journey, strategies for overcoming growth hurdles, and key business insights.
Background: Holly’s Journey to Success
- Entrepreneurial Spirit: Holly moved to Australia six years ago with a vision to establish her own hair extension business. Starting from scratch, she borrowed £80,000 and has built her salon, Holly Rose Hair, which now generates an impressive monthly revenue of around AUD 92,000.
- Quick Growth: Within just nine months of operation, Holly aims to transition her business towards further growth while managing the complexities involved.
Key Challenges Faced by Holly
1. Navigating Fast Growth
- Team Expansion: Holly's business has seen rapid growth, having expanded to 14 team members and continually facing a waitlist of clients. However, this growth has created physical limitations in her salon space due to the constraints of a three-year lease.
- Client Base Diversification: Currently, Holly's clientele is heavily comprised of the expat community, which poses sustainability risks. She recognizes the need to strategically target the broader Australian market for a more stable future.
2. Market Positioning and Pricing Strategy
- Competitive Pricing: Holly currently charges significantly less than competitors for her core service, which undermines the premium nature of her brand. The discussion leads to a critical evaluation of whether she should increase prices and how to do so without losing existing clientele.
- Educating Customers: There is a recognition of the need for education and communication with clients regarding pricing adjustments and the value being offered.
3. Launching a Proprietary Product Line
- Creating a Unique Brand: Holly intends to start her own hair extension brand instead of relying on external suppliers—this move requires careful negotiation and market understanding, particularly with overseas manufacturers.
- Overcoming Inexperience: Growing into wholesale and product distribution brings anxiety for Holly as she navigates the unfamiliar terrain of production and supply chain management.
Strategies for Growth
Emphasizing Effective Marketing
- Leverage Word-of-Mouth: The salon has thrived primarily on word-of-mouth referrals. Holly intends to capitalize on this by implementing a more strategic marketing approach, including paid ads and educational initiatives.
- Social Media Engagement: While Instagram has been a primary marketing tool, Holly acknowledges that her efforts on TikTok need to be elevated to tap into a wider audience and engage with a younger demographic.
Establishing a Sustainable Business Model
- Balancing Growth and Stability: Holly is at a crossroads regarding whether to continue aggressively pursuing growth or focus on stabilizing her current operations. This decision is crucial to maintaining quality and client satisfaction while ensuring further scalability.
- Franchising Opportunities: As discussed, franchising might provide a pathway for Holly to expand her business sustainably, allowing others to manage branches while maintaining oversight of product quality and brand integrity.
Conclusion: The Path Forward
Holly's journey underscores the importance of strategic planning in business growth, especially in service-oriented industries like hair extensions. As she prepares to launch her own product line and considers expanding her salon operations, the insights gained from this podcast episode highlight vital aspects of entrepreneurship:
- Understanding the Market: Engage deeply with the local audience and continuously assess market trends.
- Pricing Strategies: Be deliberate with pricing adjustments to reflect quality while ensuring customer retention.
- Building Relationships: Maintain and nourish relationships not just with clients but also with suppliers to ensure quality and reliability.
By addressing these challenges with robust strategies and maintaining the passion that drives her business, Holly can successfully navigate the complexities of her expanding salon and product line, setting a compelling example for aspiring entrepreneurs everywhere.
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Hello campers, welcome back to the Business Broadcast. We are going down to Australia right now as we speak to Holly who moved to the country eight years ago and has borrowed 80,000 pounds from the bank and built a salon business doing 92,000 Australian dollars every single month from scratch and it's only nine months old. Is this a fascinating story or what? I cannot wait to see her score at the end of the podcast when we do eight traits of the greats.
This is a good business and this is a good entrepreneur. Strap yourselves in. Hello, I'm James Sinclair and this is the Business Broadcast. This is the podcast designed to help grow your business. We're brought to you by the Entrepreneurs University. Now, if you're serious about growing your business, I want to hear from the challenges of other business owners and entrepreneurs.
that have been there, done it, and got the metaphorical t-shirt, then you're in the right place. Every episode, I'll coach business owners, learning from their challenges, so that you can grow your business by listening into that powerful conversation. Let's go. Hello, campers. Welcome back to the business broadcast. Good day, as they say, natively. Good day to eat. Put another steak on the barbie. I think it's a shrimp, mate, but never mind.
Holly moved to Australia. Six years ago. Six years ago. Six. So she was... 27. 27 and just decided, I want to go to Australia. And now, immigrant entrepreneurs, I've always given a big round of applause to. I think just to move to another country and start afresh, makes you very resourceful.
What are you laughing at? No, I just think it's great. It just reminds me of like, I worked abroad for a bit and that decided to go somewhere. And the first time you just turn up with your bag, you're like, what am I going to do now? Like, it's quite exciting. But when you went abroad, you did have work to go to. No, we had the first year I did, but then the second year I didn't. So I just used your... I did. I literally, I went into hotels as a Michael Booble trivia ad.
And he got there and all he wanted to do was sing, I want to go. Exactly that. Luckily, that was a smash hit that summer. There's something about that. But going there, working is very different to saying, I'm going to set up a business. Yes. Yeah. And I'm only going in the short term. I was going like, I'll do it for a summer season. It'll pay the bills. I'm going to do some singing songs and that'll be me done. And then we'll come back in the winter. Happy days. Whereas I wonder if Holly went with the intention of staying forever.
No, she didn't because she said to her mum, I've seen six months. Right. Did she fall in love? Six years later. Well, she's got an English fella who's also his, isn't he? It's so confusing, James. I can't work it out. Is it Australia-based? Is it UK-based? Is it a little bit above, mate?
Good at the access. But any entrepreneur, immigrant entrepreneur, I'm thinking about Michael Freckle, Wieckle Wieckle Wieckle. He didn't make that, did he? I don't know, this is not one of his. No, he would be absolutely distraught. He mentioned his name and we're in that jumper. What's wrong with this jumper? What's right with it?
I just can't believe that the discount on it was on the sleeves. No, no, I do that because I like this. Because you like to show your bunch of who? Why does it even happen to you this year? No, no, I like. No, it's not about the watch. I like this bluey, white, stripy thing.
So you intentionally want the bottom of it out. OK, you do look like an ice cream maker, to be fair. Yeah, I like it. And didn't my whole Lawrence, Lewinbury, and I sometimes like going like this. Oh, a little fold up. Oh, I do remember. He's still absolutely caked, isn't he? Does the ideal home show every single year at Olympia? See, that's what I like. No, that's good. OK, fine. I'll take it back.
Oh, here he goes. Love his wet shirt. Someone's coming in here to do some effort. No, listen, but Michael Frankwick, just qualified engineer came from Poland and has just built an amazing business. And he is a story, one of many. I think when you
And I was gone and done it again over in Saudi. Yeah. That's what I mean. Double immigrant entrepreneur. There you go. Go and check him out on Instagram. If you can spell his name, it's quite difficult. But yeah, I think his Instagram profile is I will make you look good in the suit.
Oh, is it? Oh, that's quite good. But I address successful people, something like that. That's good. Tell us about Holly's business, though, Jacob. So Holly has got a company called Holly Rose Hair. She has had updates and amendments, colon. She's very organised, old Holly. And there's a lot of information here, but she has. She's applying to us for a bank loan. Yeah, yeah. It feels like she's thinking she's coming on Dragon's Den. I don't want to disappoint her. Have you got any cash you could lend to her?
Oh, I need it, does she? No, I don't think she does, to be fair. A monthly turnover in $92,000 net profit margin is 26% and she put some previous details, but they've only been trading for nine months out of this current sell on the financial year in Australia runs from July to July, so the projected turnover for this financial year ending in July 25, it's 878,000 bucks, which is in year one. In year one. Let's just take a pause for thought here. Year one.
We're going to be doing $878,000. Do you know what? I don't think we even need to pause for thought. I think we need this. Yeah. I think we just give it an applause. What's the... You was about to tell us what the currency conversion was. The $878 is about, I reckon, £750,000. Three quarters of my liquid. There we go. At the time, we're recording. So challenge number one is going to be getting through the hell, my good God. I'm having to do four scrolls to get to the bottom of it.
Take a deep breath, buckle in guys, we're going to be here. Navigating the fast growth, right? This is interesting and becoming more strategic. I worked as a freelance hairstylist from home for a few years and I built up a solid reputation. In March 2024, I opened my first salon and the growth has been incredible so far. Each time I've hired another team member, we've still had a wait list and we're turning prospective clients away.
Now, with 14 members, our diary is pretty full and I think we've reached a good balance. We can still fit in smaller bookings within the week. So I think we've hit a sweet spot with a little wiggle room, although gaps in the diaries freak me out. That said, we've physically filled a salon space so there's no more room for any more team members. I'm locked into a three-year lease with a three-year option to extend and I invested about $50,000 into the fit-out.
The business, we're not finished guys. The business has been built almost entirely on word of mouth, especially within the expat community and have only used Instagram to share my work. No paid ads or heavy marketing. Word of mouth has been amazing, but I know I need to get more strategic with marketing, especially with upcoming plans for education and a product launch.
Right now our clientele is highly dominated by the expat community which is fantastic but not always long term. To ensure the salon has longevity I want to start targeting the Australian market more strategically so we build a client base that will sustain the business well into the future.
That is just challenge number one. Now she said in the pre check chat with me and then said again with the pre check chat with both of us that she is a bit of a crossroads here. Does she keep growing for the sake of growing because growth is on the table to be had or does she ease her foot off the gas a little bit, get some stability, build out where she's at and then go again.
I don't like people coming on the podcast and asking us this because we are not good. They need to wait. You are. You are. Only two runs down from God, though, aren't you? Last time I checked. People can't come on and ask us that. That needs to be the decision. Well, they've got to. She has. Well, what should she do? Go.
Go. I don't know enough to tell her that. Shirk in your responsibilities. Well, I don't think we should be. That's not our job is it? It's not. I know what you're asking anyway. Well, of course you can't cry, Holly. I don't know why you're attacked by 50 more businesses. Why don't you buy Australia? You should be buying this as a company, buying a hair company, buy a wig company.
I have end to end. Every color is choked by a weak, exactly. Vertical integration is what is the aim of the game. Stocks and rosy ice cream in your store in hot months. Challenge number two. Ready for the second challenge, guys? Strike yourselves in. This is also quite substantial.
My business is a specialism, has a specialism in hair extensions and I'm planning to start my own hair extension brand rather than using other brands products. I'm also setting up a training academy through which I'll generate trade account holders for my hair extension line. I've been trial in hair with multiple suppliers and believe I have found the factory slash reply that I would want to move forwards with there in China. I'm nervous about taking the first steps into my first large purchase as I'm unsure that I have negotiated the price well. I want to ensure I've got the best price possible before making the initial large order.
As I feel, it may be hard to reduce the rates for following orders. I'm also super inexperienced when it comes to this other business. I have concerns that there are important considerations that I'm unaware of.
This bit you isn't that bit. I would. What's the third one? Third challenge is substantially less. So here we go. I barely increase my price. Oh, this is good. I barely increase my prices between going from a rented renting a space to opening the salon out to fear of losing clients. Now I find myself in a position where we are price, where the pricing is lower, the most salons on hair extensions only color pricing is where it needs to be.
to be as we launch color in March. So the prices were set then. I need to do a price increase. I'm not sure I had to navigate this as I don't want to lose clientele when I'm trying to launch my own brand of hair as well. And then she's got a bunch of questions for you. Challenge two and three, we can answer much easier, but challenge number one on how big do I want to go is really down to Holly to decide. And then once she's made that decision, we then prescribe the medicine.
So shall we then have a quick, interesting fact or quote of the week and then get us straight on and we can find out. I've got great quote. Have you? Yeah. Hang on a second. We've got to have a knock at the door first. Yeah. Press off Instagram, is it? No. Oh, I need to read some of them out as well.
So I'm going to do two quotes because I've realised I've been very fact heavy over the last few episodes. And I do like you. You do love a quote. I think quotes are some of the most wonderful things in the world. And you think you've got a great quote? Yeah, what have you got? No, I've got a great quote. Let's have a double quote. We haven't quoted for a while. I'm going to go with two. And then I'll read one of the Instagram ones that I've had. So you're going to go for three? Sure. Two from me and one from the audience, baby. OK, fine. Do you want to go first or should I go first? No, you go first.
I love this one. The older you get, the more morals you pick up along the way. Oh, that is true. Yeah, that is true. And then this killer. Here we go. We've got a drum roll. Come on. I don't have another set of jingles. Is that possible? Can you get another? No, that's the only drum I've got. I haven't got like a knife. I'm afraid not. We need a drum roll. Yeah, no, I'm out. It's the first time you've asked me something that I haven't got.
I've got a cow. Do you want a cow? Okay. But don't milk that joke. Come on now. I'll tag it around Sinclair. Quick, go. Okay. What you're not changing, you're choosing. Oh, my God. Give me the little melodratty. Absolutely. You have to feel for quite a bit of time here. Go. What you're not changing. You are choosing.
That is so true, though, isn't it? I love that. I love that. You're an audience. I have an audience one. Well, no, no, why you're, I'm fine, didn't that? Can you reach out? Okay, fine. Right. This is, I saw this in a book yesterday and I stopped dead and I said to Haley, listen to this and she didn't listen. And I was like, stop what you're doing. You've got to listen to this. Right? Are you ready? Stop. Keep letting yourself get talked out of living your dreams by people who've given up on theirs.
He's not even listening, that's fantastic. I'll play my own play, yeah. No, I can't say it, I'm saying for everyone else not for you. Stop, keep letting yourself get talked out of living your dreams by people who've given up on theirs. Oh, that is good.
OK, I've got GB Wills UK. Sorry, I should just talk to Chud there. Yeah, when James decides to listen. Yeah, I did listen to that one. I like. Oh, yeah, I'll say it again. Second time round. Yeah. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round. Second time round
Yeah, I like it. Oh, well, this one, Dave Spittlehouse from his mobile phone company, which is called Simpatico. Yes. Oh, he was a company. Come to business, mask, lovely guy. Only approximately 4% of UK businesses reach a turnover of over.
785,000 quid. No, 1 million. Only 4% get over to 1 million. 4%. We've got loads, so I'm going to save them for other. Fantastic. There you go. There's an interesting fact, all quotes of the week. There was loads. We're playing on top of another jingle, because he decided to do four quotes, not listen to my quote, and made me read that out twice. We've actually had six quotes. We should get a chance to do one. Next episode, get one ready. The chance has got some good quotes. I bet. Has he got one just off the cuff? Could you just off the cuff one? Yeah, what's your favourite quote of all time, Juds?
Well, a big question right there. Let me prepare for that. OK, next time, everyone that's still with the Jim Rohn, you become the average of the five previous bit motion. Can you say it like Jim? No, come on, because it doesn't have the full effect. That's what I need. That's how I get into character. No! No! I get that, I get in. If you haven't checked this out, then there's some Jim Rohn videos on YouTube. Go and check them out. It's so good. Yeah. No, you've become the average in a five previous bit most of your time.
It's very good. If you're thinking what is he doing? I'm not doing it. He won't play the game. You think he's back if you hit a chance to do the impression of it. Really, is that good?
It's funny, I was watching Jimmy Carr talk about, hey, he has trigger words to get into accents. So if I was going to do a scouse accent, I have to say live appeal, but again, did you do that?
No, to do in Australia, it's saying, Holly's not from Australia, but lives in Australia. Is there a word that you say to get in? No, I just think it's got to sound like a question. So you've got to do with Australian. Yeah. What do you mean something? Because everything you say in Australian, at the end has to go up, like it's a question. It's not ever a statement. Yeah. Do they really do that? Yeah, absolutely. It's really, really, even on the news, like this is what's happened. Did it or not?
Is it fake news? I don't know. I can never sell. There we go. Right. Talking of Holly and Australia. Should we get Holly on? Let's get Holly on. Let's get Holly on. Let's get her on. Hey Holly, how are you? Thank you for being on the pod. Hello. Thank you for having me. You are very welcome. We think you are an impressive entrepreneur. We do. That's what we, what we reckon so far from reading between the lines. But give us, give the audience the watchers and the listeners just a quick summary of you in the business just to make sure that we haven't butchered your origin story.
Sure. So basically, I've been doing hair extensions for about 10 years. I was working freelance doing that in London. Then decided to travel the world, moved to Australia and set up again here, which was obviously quite daunting, but actually went really, really well. So I've been doing it for probably four or five years here now. And I just opened my first salon in March this year after having worked from home for the first few years.
Did you go to Australia and get on the plane on your own, Holly? Or did you go with friends? I got on the plane on my own. And you said you travelled. You were going to travel the world. Did you travel the world? Did you end up in one place and stay? Yeah, I would say the world is actually a bit dramatic because it was Southeast Asia. But I did travel there like around all different countries there for about six months.
And what was it? And what was it about Oz or Sydney that like hooked you and you like, Oh my God, this is my place. These are my people. I feel like with Australia versus the other place I went to, it's still like that Western culture. It's much easier to kind of like slot in those really good opportunities, but also we still have that nice beachy life, good weather, just good vibes.
Do you know what I find with Australia? And I don't know if I've been like six times. Yeah. Yeah, I've got a family out there. Yeah, I went for as long as I went forward eight weeks, which is great. And I find that Australia has got the optimism of the US, but they've got the sense of humor of the Brits. And I'm like, that is just such a great comment. They don't take themselves too seriously, but they are really like
Go get is there half glass half full kind of people would you reckon to that analogy like Holly is that accurate or maybe because I've been there for a long enough period of time? Yeah, no, I completely agree. They definitely go get us like everyone's up down at the beach like five in the morning like the beach is packed full of people exercising even like just it's that kind of vibe to the play. It's like yeah, it's really like really positive.
I love it. The first of all, I went and I was like, I'm moving here. And he was like, you're not. I was like, I'm not moving. But I wanted to get Holly. Is it, um, is it an entrepreneurial country? I would say, I don't know. It's hard to say like, there's definitely a lot of like, there's a lot of maybe people around my age. Um, you see, loads of these like independent businesses coming up, especially. I don't know if it's just in my remit of things that I see, but there's so many things like,
clothing, brands, jewelry, perfume, like all these kind of things. Like people do seem to really just go for it. Like I've made a lot of friends out here who are running their own businesses and stuff, which I feel like I didn't cross paths with as many people doing that back in London, but I mean London is a big hub for it too. I guess it just depends who you mix with as well.
Do you think Australian people are more self-reliant? Because I think we're beginning. I mean, this is just my view that the West is becoming a bit lazy. But what do you think? Maybe like, I feel like when I was in the UK, it definitely felt a little bit more abnormal to be going off and doing my own thing and not just being employed somewhere. And I don't know.
working for someone else whereas here I would say it does feel very common like even just seeing expats move out here so many people if they have like a trade or they're in some kind of skill they'll do that for themselves rather than for someone else.
They also have national pride, which I think is seriously lacking in the UK. They are very pro-Australia, and you see it on a lot of products. Actually, there's a logo with a yellow kangaroo that says Australia made on it, and they really push Australian products, because they could be
as an island's nation or it's a gigantic island. They could be completely self-sufficient because they've got the temperate climate. They could grow coffee. They could have mass agriculture. They don't need anything from anywhere else. I need to go. Oh, so you absolutely love it.
We should go on tour. Why don't we go on tour next year for your 40th? We'll go Melbourne, Holly that will come and watch. No, she talked to other people before. There's at least five people out there. We could do, we'll do Adelaide, then we'll drive from Adelaide to Melbourne, then we'll do Melbourne to Sydney, and then we'll do Sydney to Brisbane, and then me and you, babes, we'll go on one of them yachts around the coral reef thingy. I did that one, yeah. Oh my God, that was incredible. Yeah, I think the problem is the seven and five year olds that live with us.
There is that. I went to Australia for three days. You can. It wasn't a pleasant experience. Like you need to go for like at least two weeks. Yeah, probably three. Okay, Holly. Well, let's, let's talk about your amazing business and all the things that you. So far, you've just pitched the Australian tourism board. Yes. They are delighted with you, by the way. So the challenges. So you talk to us in the pre chat chats. So the challenge, the biggest challenge that you've got at the moment is do you push on for growth or stability? What's your thinking with that, Holly?
So my thinking is just like, basically, naturally, I just want to push and push and push. I want to keep growing. I don't really want to stop. But then a little bit of me in the back of my head is like, am I being a bit naive? Or like, is it normal in business to just like chase the growth if the opportunity's there? Or is it sometimes a bit wiser actually to make something more established and stable?
and like put time into doing that rather than time into trying to build and grow.
Well, I think that was a good answer there. Now I know what to say to you. If that's the way your brain is wired, then that is the way your brain is wired and you will go off and do it anyway. I think it's good to have, you know, some calculation to the risks that you're taking. What's the downside is if you put all in or put it all on black and it all goes wrong and you've all your chips are gone. You don't want to ever be in that situation. But I think there's an a wider thing that I would say now from the bits that you've told me about your business.
Salons and running multiple locations. What happens in a business like yours? Very similar in restaurants where quality and people need to be scaled up. It can be very difficult to say have 10 hair salons and all have consistent levels of service when you are diluted across the 10 and then you need to put middle management in place. Very, very difficult to scale that up. Few have done it and that's why lots of the big brands franchise out.
So it might be, I mean, we like, I think, Antonio and Guy and the UK, big chain, I'm sure you know them, Holly, but lots of those are franchised out by independent managers that are on the detail. McDonald's and KFC are very famous for doing this in the restaurant space. That's how they've been able to scale up because it's very, very difficult.
is actually a thing here about Matt Donald. So when Matt Donald's opened a store, Holly, they run it themselves and then they look for a franchise partner to then buy that store off of them. Oh, do they? And the profitability goes up usually as a rule of thumb when the franchise partner takes it over.
because the franchise partners going, we should open an extra two hours on a Friday night, on a Saturday night, because I've seen my local marketplace demand food at that time of night. Let's put a drive through on the edge. Let's actually move this here and put more seats there, because we can get more customers there. Let's buy next door. The franchise owners thinking entrepreneurially. But actually, Holly, what I think I would do if I was in your shoes is
I would be using your salon as the marketing place for this hair extensions business, which could be on Shopify, could be all over Australia, all over New Zealand. And you could scale that up and use your salon as the content machine, the content machine that drives the growth of that business.
And I think you could get all of the products from China. The big thing that you said in your challenges about China is you've got to get on the plane and go and see them. I mean, that will make a big difference and it will be very, very good for you to do that.
I had that sometimes suppliers don't invite you to visit them unless you're spending like, I don't know how much, but like a significant amount of money with them. Okay. No. If you put the effort to go and see them in my experience, you will get better products, better quality control because, you know,
It's the human to human thing. If you bother to go out, they will know if you're popping on a plane from Australia and you're going to see their factory. The Chinese people are very, very pro that stuff. They will show you around their factories. You'll go, oh, I wish you can just do that 10% that way rather than that way. Can you make it a little bit darker? You take all your samples of other competitors and say, we really like this. We really don't like that. That quality is not good enough. What you will do by visiting the factories and seeing them
will make your products 10 times better. And you'll be able to negotiate mocs and just say this. Look, I just want you to know, I've built this business. We're doing like a million dollars worth of sales in our first year. We've got really good customers. What I want is a big variety. I don't want these massive, massive order quantities.
I want to have variety. I don't want to get things going. And then I'm going to order more. And if they see that passion within you, they get excited and they go, all right, yeah, we'll work with you. We'll lower the MOC. We'll help you with the pricing. We'll give you some more samples. And you want to go and get an agent that shows you around 10 different factories. And there's plenty of agents that will do that in the Far East. They will drive you around. They'll do all the communications for you. They'll do lots of the quality control checks rather than you relying
And you want to go and see how the factory is not just one so that you can pick up all the best stuff from others.
Yeah. Okay. And you want to go to it. You want to go to, sorry, just an I forget, you want to go to one of the big shows around the hair and beauty, which is check out Ken's on fair. And I think you'll be in phase one at C and T O and fair and just look at the listing, but your agent will arrange all of that for you. So you just put in agents, China. And yeah, I'll help you.
Awesome. That sounds really good. But get on the plane. It's only like 20 minutes from here as well, isn't it? I actually have no idea how far away it is. I'm sure you're closer than we are.
Probably. That's really interesting to know though. I think there was someone telling me before about these fairs and they as well have like all the packaging and like different labeling options and stuff like that of them too. So that would be really useful. I mean, I'm going in April and I'll be at Cannes on fair. And if you need some just message me on Instagram or on the emails and I'll introduce you to some people that can help. Awesome. Thank you very much.
What's your take on the salon situation? Yeah, because we're concerned is when people like you, and we've had people on the pod before, they scale up their multiple sites. Especially salon businesses, yeah. Especially, they don't put the middle management in place, standards go, the turnover grows up in gross terms, but the net profit stays the same and sometimes less. What I would do, Holly, is have the biggest salon, but one,
And then build up the scalable bit that doesn't need lots of people, which would be the hair extensions. And then you just use the cell on as a TV studio. But you might want to move this one in a couple of years that has a bigger space that's got a warehouse on the back. So you can do all your distribution and just have a big hub. I'm a big pro doing this. And I would do your hair extensions wholesale as well, not just direct to consumer.
Yeah, I was thinking of that too. I feel like that daunts me more because it's the thought of doing like the sales element of that. But I know that that would be brilliant. You just got on a plane and lived in Australia and set this up from scratch and borrowed a load of money from this stuff. That stuff is way simpler than the bigger things you've already done in your life. True. I'm thinking too, like if I can do wholesale basically where I'm about to start teaching again,
teaching her extensions. They're basically creating like a funnel of people who are coming directly to as wholesale clients. So it should work really well. What's good about wholesale as well is
It gives you big bulk orders that turns your cash flow quicker. So you'll make bigger margins on direct to consumer. But what happens with whole sales? You start getting quite a lot of marketing from this. Those people go out and talk about your brand and build your brand as sort of ambassadors.
So I think that's really important. You think about Nike, they did do very well with lots of sports shops stocking their stuff and having prominence in other people's shops. Now they do a horrific amount of people buying Nike direct from them, but really all of those people over the last five decades of that business, putting Nike signs up in all those independent stores has definitely helped.
build them up as long as they're along with their direct to consumer business. That's the second time in the last couple of weeks where wholesale and DTC has come up, isn't it? And you're a big, big fan of it, aren't you? Yeah. And I talk about it in my business, Holly and Teddy Tastic. We're in all the holiday parks nearly in the country. And that presence in there, I think has definitely helped us build brand for our direct to consumer business.
Yeah and I guess as well it's quite a straightforward like it's basically marketing without doing much at all isn't it? Well to build a wholesale customer you know takes time and it could take you a year to get a really good one over the line there's you know definitely yeah but yes you're correct what I love about this as well Holly is you can set all that up do all the R and D and you know some things will go wrong some of the Chinese factories will let you down every now and then
But my experience is they do the right thing and they put it right and they remake the stuff you frustrating but you'll learn all of that process. Once you've got it all set, you can go and set this up in the UK, can't you? You can get a warehouse in the UK and you can say ship that bit to Australia, ship that bit to the UK.
Because you'll be very well placed to do that. And that's a great way of growing your business. Having lots of salons, having lots of shops all comes down to the quality of the middle management for that to be successful. And not many people achieve that. If it was me, I'd much rather have a 10 million pound or a 10 million dollar hair extensions, ecom, wholesale, direct to consumer website business and one salon that gives you all the knowledge about what the marketplace wants.
Yeah, yeah, that makes complete sense. And it's so much more scalable as well. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, shops have multiple location business. Take it from a guy that's doing it all the time. You win or die by the quality of the management. It's management first, then the product. Mm.
And that is definitely, I think it's recruitment is hard anyway, like even finding team members and things has been quite challenging to find the quality that we needed. Luckily, we have done, but it took a lot of time to do that. And you're there. Yeah. Yeah.
You're seeing that back of mind thinking thinking, Oh, do you know what? That chair looks a bit scruffy. I need to get a new one or those windows need cleaning or that uniform doesn't look good enough. This needs to repaint this. Soon as you've got 10 shops, you know, and you're the only like back of mind thinker in the business, everything starts deteriorating a little.
I think I've actually seen evidence of this happen when I first moved to Australia I interviewed in a salon and the owner was actually living in America and growing in I remember she said to me on the phone or I've heard that it's quite messy and I've heard this I've heard that and growing in and experiencing it you can feel the lack of the presence of someone who truly cared about the space
and was like really invested themselves in it. And that's why that's what created the franchise model. Yeah. So you could, that could be an option for you as you franchise stores out in the future. You know, that, and then you supply your own franchise easily with all of your stock, which means that, because not many people would be bothered to go to China and get on the plane. Weirdly,
I think people would find opening a shop much easier than invest in a couple of weeks a year in China to find the best products. It's mad, isn't it? Because it's not at all, is it? Going on a plane, staying in a hotel, being uncomfortable, being willing to be uncomfortable for a fortnight, for a potential... It's not even that uncomfortable. They're lovely people. They're good people. But most people...
I think they're going to end up in rice fields and I'm going to find all these people. But there's this thing called the internet that really does help. Yeah. I reckon it would be really fun. I think you can't imagine the the scowl and sighs of the way China does things. You know, honestly, some of the cities made London look like a village. Really?
There's cities there that have 20 million people and a new one never have heard of them.
London's a nine million people city. And then there's a city next to a city next to a city and all of these cities are massive cities. So it's just like a, you know, and there's areas that specialise in certain things. You go to like a gigantic like five storey department store and it's just got electrical fittings in it. So you're, do you know the location in China, Holly, where you're going to get your hair extensions from?
Yeah, I do. Can you say it? Do you want me to tell you? Yeah, it's cool. Well, I actually don't know how to pronounce it correctly, but it's called Quindau, I think. Yeah. So in that area, there will be loads of other hair and makeup and beauty products.
Yeah, it's kind of gathered that they all kind of have hubs, don't they? Yeah, provenance. So I buy lots from EU, which is why IWU. But lots of small commodity items are made there. There's just above Hong Kong and Guangdong around that area is like big in technology.
You've got a furniture, isn't it? Fusan is like the furniture district. I mean, I'll say a district. I mean, I'm talking like a county the size of UK. It just does the one thing. That's crazy, isn't it? And you get to know these things, Holly. And it's like, you know, you all know the best restaurants to go to in Sydney now, because you live there for a few years. Once you've done 10 trips in China, you like... Plus, I'm like, you who likes traveling and likes going to experience the world. This is right up your street.
And lots of people. Yeah, definitely. China's not cheap anymore to make stuff. And I always sort of labour the point this year in the podcast. There are many countries that are cheaper, Vietnam, the Philippines, Thailand. The China wins because it has
A billion people and it has all the raw materials, it has the talent, the scowl, the infrastructure, the transport, the ports to be able to do stuff that most of the rest of the world cannot. I've actually read that there's a trend now in the hair extension industry that
Vietnamese hair is becoming more and more in demand and popular. So I don't know if that's if it's gonna shift that way or if that just means that Vietnamese hair will be imported to China and then sold them from China. So it's a my experience on this Holly. So lots of you know I make teddy bears, lots of teddy bears made in Vietnam.
And I want to consider that as well. But all the raw materials will come from China and they'll be finished in Vietnam. So we buy lots from India. All the raw materials come from China, but the labor, the assembly is done in India. Bye.
So Vietnam is a country with lots of labor and skills. But whenever I've done things in other countries, I find China to be the most organized. And we still, we do lots in Turkey. We do lots in India. So it's not that I'm just like pro-China, pro-China. I'm still doing things in other countries that it's just
Yet begin like Vietnam's not even that far from you, is it? You know, how quick can you get there? No, that would be close. I actually don't know how probably, I don't know, six hours or so, something like that. Yeah, I mean, I would be checking both. Yeah. What happens with China? If you get really big, China is always the one that can do the volume.
Yeah, and the factory that I've been, I have been trying trialing hair from a few different factories, but the one that I have kind of, I feel has given the best quality and that kind of thing, they are a big factory and they supply other large brands.
So I feel like if I was to grow then that would be really beneficial to be working with them because they have that capacity. You want to choose factories or the testing because sometimes if you get a price and it's really cheap they could be cutting corners and not doing the testing and you really want to make sure you're having all the testing and I find the testing is so much easier. There's much more testers in China that
that are internationally recognised and if you're putting things on people's bodies then you really want to have all that. Yeah, for sure. Like the quality is super, super important to me. Yeah.
It's quickly cycle back to challenge three, because I think we've covered off the hair extension part there. So one of the things you mentioned is that you've barely increased your prices between going from a rented space into opening the salon through fear of losing clients, which makes sense because you are taking a big step. What would be your take on that gym motion, Claire? What's it? Give me an example.
So what kind of example? So putting in some hair extensions is 100 quid or whatever. Oh, right. Yeah. So say our most popular service now is charged at $990. But I would say most of our competitors and other people
Nearby are probably more sitting around 1200, 1300 for that. So we're quite cheap. And because we're so specialist, I actually do worry that that almost undermines our skill set. Yeah. I mean, at that level, put the price up and I would offer, if you can, a payment plan thing where if you can team up with someone like ClearPay or Klarna or one of them, I'm sure you've got that in Australia.
We do. There's afterpay. I think once you start putting more and more through them, you can negotiate the rates. But to start with, you have to give 6%, which feels so high. Yeah. So I would say to people, if you pay upfront, it's £1,100. If you want to pay over six months, it's £1,500 and you price that in.
So they're really, they write into the contract. So you have to provide evidence of your pricing, like on a website or something like that first. And you're not allowed to put the cost onto the consumer contractually, which is frustrating. There is another alternative called zip pay, which you can either do it that way and take the cost as the business, or you can put interest onto
the consumer. But afterpay is really, really, really popular. Is it pay? I think it is popular still, but I can tell I already know just from talking to people tend to be more so on the afterpay thing. So if someone pays up from, I'm sure there's a way of you working that out, Holly, I can't give someone like if they pay up from, they get a cashback amount.
Yeah, it could maybe be because like the way our extensions work, they have to come back in every two months to have them refitted. Maybe it's like a discount on their refit appointment or maybe they get paid. This is a great business. Holly, I'm liking this. So your average order value isn't $1,000 and then they have to come back every two months to be topped up. Well, our average sale value is $388.
because the refit appointments are much, much cheaper than that initial outset where they're buying the hair as well. Yeah, but when they come back two months later, what do they get? What do you charge them? We would charge them for that set that we were just talking about. That would be $280 to reapply, but there's no cost, obviously, aside from stuff and running the place. It's not really any cost to us to do the service. Oh, Holly, this is a great business.
Yeah. If you can get your supply chain sorted, so it's proprietary to you and it's your own, you're the only one. Yeah. That's where I need to make the saving because we spend an incredible amount on hair at the moment.
I can reduce those cars. Get on the plane because you'll learn loads and you'll find other products and all of that good stuff. This is a good business. The pricing thing, usually it's just the business owner getting their mind in the way of why can't you charge 1200 like everyone else. Just make sure you've got the best service, best value and offer people a period of time to pay. I think those usually solve lots of the problems.
But I don't know if you've got an economic downturn in Australia. I do think I've always been going home about this, you know, just put your prices up, put your prices up. And that's easy to say in a luxury brand, in an experienced base brand, but people are price sensitive. And I feel that in some of my businesses as well, and you have to be careful. But I think at this level, if it was an extra $150, is that really going to be enough to push people over the edge?
Yeah, probably not. Probably not. And the other thing is have different levels of service. So it's all packaged up so that people can see that they're not, you know, there's some people want to pay for the ads. There will be people that go, no, I want the $2,000 one.
And if you don't have a $2,000 one, you might lose the customer. I always say this, think about, you know, I will not fly unless I've got extra legroom on an international flight. So if you haven't got that, you're not getting my extra money. You actually lose me as a customer. I don't want the cheap seats. I want the luxury seats and I want to pay for the premium service. That's me when I travel.
Maybe the opposite with someone else. I have wondered before, like, do I introduce like two different grades or qualities of hair? So we have like one that's a bit more affordable and accessible and one that's more premium. But then I've just felt concerned then if lots of people are getting the lower quality product,
What's that going to do to our reputation for the? Well, I don't think you have a low quality. You have a high quality and then a platinum quality. You know, the entries level Rolex is still 8000, but you can buy a 50,000 100,000 bound Rolex as well. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
And that's the, you know, I'm thinking about, I was thinking about Dior. You can buy her to Twilight or you can buy all the perfume, you know, and then that bathroom. There's three levels of every, you know, and if you really want, and there are people that go, no, no, no, I don't want the other Twilight. I want that perfume, which is like 40% more money. Yeah, I've just had a thought actually. I think the way around this could potentially be
to provide clipping hair extensions which are like it, you put them in, you take them out, you keep them however long, but it's not that permanent hair extension method that we offer, but that would be a much lower cost to the client. So we could maybe target people with a lower budget by offering the clipping extensions and then have the more permanent methods for people with a bigger budget.
But at the moment, you're full. So why do you need to do that? You're not scraping around here to feel your chairs. You're actually at capacity. But would people want a thicker, more, more strands of hair that they pay an extra 50% more for? I reckon there will be some women that want to do that. Yeah, that would be definitely. And if you don't offer it, you might lose them. Yeah. Yeah.
you know, just think about the airline. There's premium economy, business class and first class. And there are some people programmed that will just only accept first class. And if you haven't got it, they don't book on you. Yeah, I think I think our clientele is probably more that mid range than the kind of like
big spenders as a whole. So I think that's where my fear starts coming in a bit is that I need to target a different group of people. And then it could potentially be a bit of a move from one group of clientele to a different one. Yeah, but Holly, my view is people, the one that, yeah, I think you're right. But also people that want to look good. If they're committed to spending $1,000, they probably would spend the extra $400.
Yeah. We're not talking a thousand, ten thousand here, are we? No, no. That's true.
But look, I can hear the cogs in your brain going. And that's great. That's why we come on the podcast. And I think that's very useful. Congratulations on lots of success already. You really are doing some good stuff. And I can, you've got the brain for it. And I hope you do use that brain. I hope you do put it to use. I hope you do go on the plane and get out there and see these other countries and
I can see you setting up this, you know, hair extensions, wholesale business in Australia, then hopscotch it over to the UK as well, because why not? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Where can people find out more information, especially if they're in Sydney and they're looking for some fabulous extensions? Where could they go? How good is his impression by the way? Do you think it's good, Holly? It's always slightly camp, though, isn't it? It's always slightly camp. I can't get out of that. I can't get out of that. No, it's great, though. Well done. Thanks very much. I'll take the wins that I can get. Yeah, where can people go? If they want to book in for one of these fabulous salon appointments? They can go to hollyrosehair.com.au.
hollyrosehair.com.au and you're on socials as well, where are your socials? Yeah, we're holly.rose.hair on Instagram and TikTok.
amazing stuff. Well, congratulations quickly. Just on TikTok, have you got any business from TikTok? Because I'm on a bit of a fact-finding mission. Well, to be honest, TikTok is definitely my weakest socials platform at the moment. But I actually have, even though I feel that what I've put out is very poor, I actually have had some clients come from TikTok, which has
Amazed me but yes, and I'm watching not staring at my clients phones, but I see that my clients
They're going on TikTok. They're not going on Instagram as much. So it's such a space that we need to dive into head first. I agree. And I think that's on one of my new year's resolutions to understand it more. But I did hear that there is room as it's going to be banned in America. Did you hear that? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Is that actually going to happen? Well, they've they've put in a case to the department of justice, haven't they? TikTok or bike dance and putting a put in a stop order on it.
Because they work here just because they're a blanket ban of it. What? Because Zukoberg's not happy. It's Donald. Donald don't like it, is he? Donald's not a fan. Mr Trump, Mr President incoming. What's Donald Trump seen as in Australia, Holly? Oh, I don't know. It depends who you talk to.
You've got your own political problems coming up, haven't you? From the sounds of what I've been listening to, to a couple of Australian podcasts, they've got their own fish to fry. Have they? Yeah. Big election year. Big election year. Actually, there's some things that are really interesting that I just want to grab on here. There's a big expat community in Australia. Holly says that they're nicer against... There's some good stuff for entrepreneurs out there, very ambitious country.
The big difference to the UK is they don't have V80, they have this thing called GST. What does that stand for, Holly? Good and services tax. And that's only 10%. So that's our equivalent of V80. Could you imagine what that would do for the UK having 10% over 20%. Corporation tax is 25% or their version of it very similar to us. And Holly managed to borrow 80,000 pounds to set up her hair salon.
Pay for it over eight years at a high rate of interest, she did say, but that would be very difficult to get through her personal bank for who she also business banks with. So they took in her personal income into that. And Holly didn't provide security. You told us that Holly. So this is just a cash flow loan to get that. The only thing is it's $80,000 rather than pounds. So
It's not quite as much as it might sound, but still that, yeah, that's all correct. Yeah, but what's the interesting thing here, regardless of the amount in the UK, if you wanted, this is called a cash flow loan. So you wanted to buy a business out for business and you wasn't providing a property as security. They would want that paid back in three or four years. Having it over eight years, although you've got a higher rate of interest means that it's much more affordable from a cash flow point of view.
Also, they've lent that cash flow loan before the cash flows at the level that it was now because you've only done that through the salon. Yeah. Did you? They're pro business, isn't they? Did you have that as a face-to-face meeting or was it all just done?
No, it was just, yeah, it was just, I applied online, spoke to someone on the phone probably twice. Then he just asked for to see my business plan and the allocation of what I was planning to spend the money on. Obviously they wanted to see my numbers as well, but the main thing was just seeing the cash flow in and out of the bank. So yeah, that was all.
Well done. Holly, you're amazing. I really, really love having you. I hope you come on in a year's time where you reapply so we can just see if you've done all that stuff. Yeah, I'd love to. Definitely. Yeah. Well, 33 years old, living in Australia. Living a flipping dream, isn't she? Living? Living dream? Thank you very much, Holly. We very much appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you for listening and contributing today.
Thank you very much. Take care of the best. Well, she was a cracker, wasn't she? There's a million dollars in year one. It got better as the conversation went on. When your average order value is 1,000 quid or 388 quid, it's very hard not to make money.
Yeah. And economic downturn, economic upturn, people want to look good. Yes. And cosmetics, confectionery, you should do very well in economic downturns. People will pay for this over going on holiday or improving their car. They go, get my hair done. I'll spend $1,000 this year on that, but I won't do my 10,000 pound international trip or two or three holidays or replace the conservatory or the kitchen.
The average wage out there is good as well. Yeah, I think the average wage is about $37,000. So it's quite, well, I guess it's relative to here, isn't it? And they don't have a huge, like, that people are employed, aren't they, and doing stuff? Yes.
rather than living on the states. I think in the main segment of that, but it's very much. They are a proud nation, although they are a young nation in this iteration of Australia. Be very careful what we say because obviously it's not a young nation, but in its
current iteration, they are very proud Aussies. I had a member of our staff at some of the works in our office and shut notes and they've moved out there. I have to say, I can only tell from Instagram, but her life now looks like rainbows and unicorns. She's on the beach every day. Do you know what it is? It's a mindset shift. I think they live to, they work to live. They don't live to work.
But they are, you know, you will see at four o'clock in the afternoon, there will be people, families that congregate and they will, this is very stereotypical, but there will be, there's like barbie, there's gas barbecues in all of the parks. And you will see people who will get together, who are doing some hot dogs and the kids are playing, but they've just got a more, I think they're just more proactive. They've got a more proactive outlook. Maybe the vitamin D helps. Maybe the vitamin D does help. Well, they got very bad ozone layer out there, just to be very careful in the sunshine in Australia.
Okay, right. Yeah, it's very bad for your skin, mate. Good for the vitamin D, bad for the skin in general. You've got to wear a lot of layers. But you're very good at voice. Thanks for your noise, mate. What is it? That's the only thing I've got. Should we do the traits of the greats? Let's absolutely do that. Here we go. We're going to vote on Holly. She's all the way from Sydney. I want you to do the voice through the whole... Okay. I am sure that that will not get annoying at all. This is the point of the show where James Sinclair...
Votes on our entrepreneur that we just head on. We look at the 8 trades and make successful people. Great. James Sinclair, over to you. OK, so we're going one. It's so good. It's a joke. Number one is starting with the ending mind. Oh, I don't think that she can be. Yeah, absolutely. After flipping lately.
She's passionate about her cause, I think she is. Oh, mate, she loves those hair extensions. Are you kidding me? Are you literally kidding me? Why are you doing the works you get? I can't do it for that, mate. Don't break character. Number three, untold amounts of resilience. Oh, we don't know that, but she's traveled the world by herself. That in and of itself is quite a feat. OK, let's give her that as well. She's innovated, so she doesn't evaporate, I think. Mate, if she gets on that plane, it's game over.
Right. I'm going to give her a zero for that. Hopefully next year she comes back. She's done the checking that out. So because I want to have something fair to aim to. Oh, fine. OK. Don't don't change the voice. I'm OK. No, I'm trying to keep it up. It's actually quite hard work. Number five commercial awareness. She gets that. Oh, yes. New all of the numbers. 388 is an average customer value of 990.
as a full head of extensions. Relationships for people, I think she gets that as well. Mate, you can't be doing their job and not have a great relationship with people. The hate that this is going to get on YouTube is going to be insane. People are going to be losing their minds. Number seven, master market tip. Not sure on that. Well, she does very well on Instagram, but she said in and of herself that she's not great on Tikki Tokki. She's given a zero there. Absolutely made.
stay teachable. She gets that 100%. That's a six. That's a six. It's number six. What on Holly? Absolutely great. There's no flies on her, mate. There's no flies on Holly Rose.
Oh, that was fantastic. I'll be impressed. Very good. Very good. Well, now it's time for a bit of this quickly. Sorry for the business quiz. You read this one out. You was the winner last time. Oh, I was indeed. It was Rofi's out on the loser.
Okay, Jimbo, quiz me up, baby. Guys, I just had to press pause here because we've got a bit of an inside joke going on. I've already been fed the answers to the question that you're about to hear in this week's Business Quiz. Chuds are producers, already told me the information. So for the next couple of weeks worth of shows, every time that we play this game, I'm going to beat Jimbo. We're going to see how much we can annoy him. It's a bit of an inside joke, so you're on the inside with us. Keep it quiet.
How many shampoo bottles does the UK population throw away every year? I mean, this is the least businessy question ever. So we'll take it. Do you have a shampoo person on? Oh, is that why we did this? I don't imagine so. Or hair extensions. How many shampoo bottles does the UK throw away every year? How many? I'm going 120 million. I'm just going to quickly guess that here. Let's think about this every morning. I'm not doing it. Everyone.
I've got 120. 80% of the population I reckon have hair. No, that's got been 120 million you're going. It's got been more than that. 350, 350 million.
You are the winner, 520 million across the UK. That averages out to just over seven bottles of shampoo per person. The average British household uses 216 plastic hair care bottles each and every single year. This is similar again. Each household uses what? 216 plastic hair care bottles per year. I think we might need to check that fact. Do you go through 216 bottles in your house of hair care product? Joe works.
spray hair colour. You're like a YouTube celebrity. This is a household. I know. I mean, yeah, it does sound unbelievable to me. This is similar to the number of tubes of toothpaste we throw away each year.
Oh, good Simon. Well, if you... Do you know what? It is an honour and a privilege, the amount of amazing conversations we get to have. Holly is an impressive young woman. It must be like nearly midnight as well in Australia. She stayed up in Sydney to have a conversation with us about business.
Look at what she got. Amazing. The gift that keeps on giving. If you have enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave us a five star review, whatever you can. If you're watching on YouTube and sometimes the algorithm, people think this is my main YouTube channel, but oh, no, no, no, there's a separate YouTube channel called the James Sinclair podcast. With 100,000 subs. 100,000 subs you say. Make sure you subscribe to it. I've had so many people in the comments go, Oh, I didn't realize there were two channels.
Really? Oh yes, you're going to check it out. I've been generally one of the best business channels on the internet. If you do love what we do, can you just leave us a review on the audio versions on Spotify and on podcast? I know we put a little jingle at the end, but it really does make a difference for our egos. Absolutely, and for the algorithm, both of which is very important. Right, we'll see you in the next one. Ta-da! Cheers!
Thanks again for listening to this podcast. This is the show that exists to help people grow their business. If you love what we do, we'd love to get our message out to more people. So please rate, review and subscribe to the podcast or wherever you watch our podcast so that we in turn can help people grow their businesses to continue success. See you soon.
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