Growth Through Marriage with Kadeen & Devale Ellis (How-To Monday)

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BA fam, we have another how to throw back for you. Of course we do. We're looking back at some of our favorite episodes from days past. From memorable guests to unforgettable moments, there's still so much to learn from the BA vault. Take a listen, will ya?

We're black, we're black, we're brown, ambition, ambition, ambition, ambition, ambition, ambition. Hey, hey, manger, how are you? Good morning. I'm sitting in there. How are you? Good. We have some extra black in black and brown ambition today. I mean, quadruple the chocolate today, quadruple the yes. I'm so excited to have these guests on y'all. Yeah. These are old friends of yours, I feel like, but this is my first time meeting them, but it's. Yeah.

Well, honestly, if you are listening, I can almost guarantee that you know Duvall and Condinee. Yeah. Ellis's. Favorite millennial married couple. First of all, they're both, I feel like it's not fair for the gene pool. They're both, they are beautiful. Both married somebody ugly, so that way we can spread the well. But no, they're like, no, we're going to keep it on the family.

The kids are absolutely beautiful. They have a podcast themselves called Dead Ass with K&D that had been on several times and they have a new book called We Over Me, the counterintuitive approach to getting everything you want from your relationship. And as of last week, they are New York Times best-selling authors.

Welcome to the club. It's cute over here. Thank you. We can finally join you in some aspect. No, I just I'm just like really proud of y'all. I'm just so excited for you to be on here with us. Yes. Thank you, Sandy. Well, you know, you don't know them any question in person. I've but I've of course I know y'all like of course I listen to dead ass and wait remind me y'all got your start and with a YouTube channel, right?

Actually, we started with Instagram. So for the people who haven't had the pleasure of meeting the Alice's yet, tell us a little bit about how you got your start and how you came to the point where you were like, let's put this into a book. Our marriage, our relationship, these skills are so magic. Everyone needs to know these.

Well, the funny thing is we, if you read the book, you'll realize that we're not even talking about how magical our skills are. We started about how messed up we were when we first got together and how we kind of figured things out that worked for us. But it actually started on social media. As many people know, Cadine is a host, a TV host, and I'm an actor. And since the first day we met in college, and we talked about what our dreams were, our dreams were to be in front of the camera.

Fast forward about 10 years. I retired from the NFL and I was going on auditions. I had booked a bunch of national commercials and Cadine was doing some hosting. And I was on power, which is my third time on prime time television. And I was with my son, Jackson at the time, who was think four. And he said, I come on TV and we're all excited. My family's watching and he goes, daddy.

You always have on that outfit when you're on TV. And I had on an orange jumpsuit because that was my third time playing the criminal on television. And it hurt because I was like, man, like here I am perpetual with the same stereotypes that I'm trying to eliminate with all of the work I do. I had an offer profit organization in Brooklyn who are helping young men.

get in the college. So the very next day I had an audition for Blue Bloods and I'm going the audition and there are two lines. There's a line for an attorney and a doctor and there's a line for inmate one and two. Of course, I'm in there to audition for inmate one and two and I look on the line and there's nothing but black and brown man. So then I asked a question, I'm like, this is a co-starring role. I said, maybe if I just ask to let me go into the other line so I can audition as

and attorney or a doctor. And the lady was just like, no, we have specific audition times for specific people. On that line, we're all white and Asian men. And I walked out. And Khadim was like, man, that was a fast audition. And I was just like, I didn't do it. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. And she's like, devout. She's walked out of your audition. I said, I can't continue to perpetuate the same stereotype. But she was like, well, what's your plan?

I said Instagram has just instituted 15 second videos. I'm going to write little 15 second like scenes for you and I. And we're going to map it out and have our own little social sitcom called the others. And I was like, okay. Why did you want to do that?

Just think about it, if we can show people that the Black family exists, because at the time it was just me, her and Jackson, and we can show them what our love looked like. And it's just a regular Black family from Brooklyn, just grinding to make it through churchification. And we had so many things that we could argue and debate about, because we were coming from a man standpoint and a woman standpoint, and we were using relationships as our basis. And she was like, all right, if you see it, I'm with it.

Started to do these little skits then Instagram turned into 60 second videos and I was like wow I got 60 seconds instead of that Let's go It started to blow up and as it started to blow up the comment section started to be You know men and women starting to debate like I understand the vows perspective I understand and is perspective and then that transition into the podcast and then the podcast transitioned into the YouTube series that Ellis is where we did 15 minute videos, which was a sitcom of our family

And then the next natural step was a book where we can actually write down all our thoughts and tell our story, which we call the book and love story, in its totality without being shortened by Twitter limits or small Instagram limits. So it just transitioned into a book and we wanted to tell our story and I'm married that way.

Did you see that? So the one I, there was one, it was like, you guys went viral for, it was like this really cute picture, like, or maybe a series of pictures. I remember. The 10s picture. Yeah, the 10s, mm-hmm. So that picture went viral. But then the, I didn't realize now the ball that it was you, but it was this hilarious skit. Mandy, I don't know if you ever saw it that like, Kadene was like not there and the ball had to like take the kids like, for grocery shopping or something. And he was like,

How, how your mother gets you out the house? It's like, where are your pants? Your pants again? It was heartbreaking. I mean, the way I watched that like a hundred times to watch like this dad struggle with like taking the kids outside the house thinking like he would always be like, he would take you so long to get the kids ready. And when he had to do it himself, he could not believe that somehow she managed to do all of this. And he was like, I'm tired. I'm not to go back and they hadn't even gone food shopping. Where are you supposed to be going?

But that was the skit that like put me on to be like, wow, like, you know, I love that, that it was real. And, you know, that this is what it looks like that sometimes, you know, moms make these miracles happen. They make them seem so effortless. And like, that's like, it can't be that hard until it's time for you to do it. All right. Yeah, he definitely understood after that. I'll give it, I'll give it.

How many kids do y'all have today? So we have four total now. Our youngest to call it a year and about 15 months now. Then Jackson, the oldest is 11. So it's going to be 12 and then we have six. Oh wow.

Yeah, we in a minute. I have one and a half. Yes, I have a three-year-old and I have another one on the way in a couple months. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, and honestly, I'm like, oh, sorry. What'd you say? I said, we won't be adding anyone to anything over here.

I mean, I'm one of four. So I'm like, you know, part of me is like, I mean, I was number three. So I'm not trying to go all the way to four. I'm like, maybe the third. But no, my husband and I are relationship. It's in plus the pandemic. And you guys have, you know, lived through that as a couple as well. I mean, how do y'all see the dynamic of your marriage sort of changing from one to two to three to four kids now? I feel like after, well, after

After three, I was after two, after two, whatever. Yeah, it's just I add another one, add another one, and then figure it out. In the same direction after a while. And then you'll hope for the best, you know, the nice thing with half the age difference that we have is that Jackson who's now almost 12, he's literally conducting himself like a grown man. It's insane to see how responsible and how mature he is. And we're both the oldest of three.

And we can see a lot of those similar qualities in him where we're like, Oh, he's definitely a leader. He's a nurturer. So it's nice sometimes to kind of be like, Hey, look out for your brothers. It's since we travel a lot for work. You know, a lot of times we have parent guilt leaving his life. Oh my God, we have to go again. And, you know, but Jackson literally like holds it down. It's so funny. We was having a conversation with Devalle and I, I'm like, you know, text the driver and let him know that we don't need him anymore. He needs to come later to pick up someone else.

And Jackson's like literally over here, like texting between us, the driver, I got you to worry about it. Because we were in flight, we couldn't get to, we couldn't text because the driver didn't have an Apple phone. So we like that, we need somebody to get contact and we hit our 11 year old, send him the number and then he sends us the screenshot that he sent the driver.

and you're black. My dad said don't worry about coming. But it's funny how he's just so on it. Yeah. And the picture he's got like a head, like an earpiece on. I've grown a bald baby now while he's changing a diaper. I like making grilled cheese at the same time. It's so funny. But it's really built to watch. Yeah.

When you had that idea to start Instagram videos, financially, what was the conversation like? I'm going to stop taking on these roles, which I know we're not the best, and obviously we're super, you know, you're a pigeonholed, which is awful. But as a couple, how did y'all handle that financially? We have so many listeners who are constantly asking us right, Tiff.

how do y'all manage your finances and like, how do you, you know, get on the same page? And it's one thing to manage it when you're both got like nine to five jobs. It's another thing when one of y'all is like, I'm going to leap off this cliff. You down? Let's go. Oh, for sure. One thing that I knew that we could not be was no starving artist family. That's not the fact that she want to be an actor. That's amazing. I'm good about it. But how are we going to make this happen financially? Because at that point, what year was it?

the NFL you retired and then we move back to New York and Brooklyn and that's when we kind of had to start over again. So our story is a little

Interesting, because it went from being broken college to the value of getting money in the NFL, to us losing everything in the recession back in 2008, and then having to rebuild again. And the biggest thing is, I've always had plans, and I've always included Cadeen in my plans. On our very first date, Cadeen said to me, what do you want to do with your life? We were 18 years old sitting in my dorm room, my very first date, and Martin was on television. And I said, I'm going to do that. And she was like, what's that? And I said, I'm going to act.

And this is the moment realistically when I knew I had a partner or someone different. She didn't laugh, she didn't get, how are you going to do that? She said, okay, how are we going to get there? And it was that how are we going to get there to me that was kind of intriguing, like, wow, first of all, she didn't laugh, second of all, she included herself in my dream, which made me in that moment feel like she believes in my dream as well, which made me feel good. So then I told her, I said, well,

If I make it to the NFL, then I make a practice squad. I can make a hunt. And this is at 18 now. I said, I can make $100,000 in four months. We can put a down payment in the brownstone in Brooklyn. We can run out the upstairs, two floors. We can live in the basement part. And we could, we don't have to be starving artists because the rent will cover the mortgage. And she was like, well, 18. That was like, what? And she was like, well, that's good one. I was not talking about down payments at 18.

But the funny thing is that's the way my brain always works. So as I got to the NFL, of course, I bought property, I did all the right things, the recession hits, and I get cut in the same three months. Like the recession hit that summer of 2008, I get cut in September 2008. So then for the next four months, we were trying to figure out what was this income going to come in because I had bought multiple properties. And now I have no income coming in. The hurtful part about that too is just like we did all of the right things. Like he was so diligent.

Like his business acumen and his financial acumen was so far beyond anything I had experienced. So I knew he was doing the right things. I was like, he's not throwing bands in a strip club. I mean, you know, he's over here doing all the right things with his money. And then here we are back to school one. So when I decided to retire, I told Kay I said, listen.

Give me some time I will get us back to where we were when I was playing the ball. And this is where the partnership comes in and we worried about this in the book. I said to Nadine, I'm cut, we don't have insurance. All I need is for someone to have insurance, you're pregnant to make sure that we can cover the baby and stuff like that. Nadine took off her engagement ring, put it in her jewelry box, got on that B44 bus and went to the mall and said, I need the job. And her biggest focus was getting a full time job so that we can get insurance.

So my answer to that question was, any time there was a financial issue, I never hit it. We talked about how we were going to get ourselves out of that financial situation together. She was never too stuck up to pull up on bootstraps and say, I'm going to go work. I worked as a substitute teacher. I worked as a color commentary on NBC varsity. I did personal training. There was no job that was beneath me in order to provide for my family.

and my wife felt the same way. So during those times, he just worked harder. We did multiple jobs, multiple tasks until we got to the point where we could say, you know what, I want autonomy over my time now. I'm going to quip this aspect and just focus on this and instill who I was able to provide that for us when the brand partnership deals start to come in.

So what are the conversations like now about money now that like you're off the struggle bus, you know, and you're like, so I'm curious, like, where are you? So it's like, you know, in the beginning, like so many new entrepreneurs, there's the struggle. And then there's a space where it's like, I'm kind of okay. And then there's a space where it's like, no, I'm solidly okay. And then hopefully there's a space where it's like, I'm beyond okay. I'm actually doing really well. So where are you in that space? And then how, how have the conversation shifted?

Well, right now, we're beyond okay. We're doing extremely well. I like to say we live in abundance. And the first thing we do is we have a fiduciary responsibility to pay forward. I feel like no one should live in abundance without being a gift to other people because this is a gift to us. So that's the first thing.

The second thing is all about wealth building now. How can we prepare our children to be in this space regardless of what happens to them in life? It doesn't matter if, I mean, of course, we want them to graduate from high school and go to college or learn and trade or do something. But I want to be able to have my children live freely on this planet. And that's what the goal is now. What things can we put in place to make sure our children are okay? And it's funny.

Tiffany and Mandy because it's about for a long time has to school me on the financial world and how things work. I was not good with money and not to say that I was a frivolous vendor, but

For example, Davao gave me, or put me on his credit card a little bit after, what was it, the NFL? No, it was 2006. I was working in the phone, I was trying to help her build a credit. The credit, right? Because at this point, my parents hadn't really explained anything to me about credit or anything. So he added me onto his credit card. So I'm thinking, oh, I got like, money to spend. And I could just pay it back at my leisure.

And I didn't realize at the time, I, you know, put the car in a thing. It was like 15,000. It was like the, the, um, it was the max. And I was just making like small payments, like, Oh, 25,000 a month. You know, not knowing anything about it. I'm doing it, adulting adults, right? So there's that things that we were in being broke again, going back to Brooklyn and having to rebuild as

Even in the space that we're in now, I still sometimes move with caution. Like, I don't want to buy this or, oh, what's the budget for that? And so that was like, my, my, look at me, I'm here. Maybe the person that just used to be like, I don't know if you guys have seen this, like a video going around the viral where someone has their apple pair and they're like, bing, bing, bing. They're like charging everything everywhere. And I just can't get used to that now because I'm still living in this sense of fear sometimes, like,

what if it all gets snatched away, you know? But Devalle has helped kind of ease that anxiety in me and let me know, like, okay, now we have certain things allotted, like the children will be okay, we'll be okay, like these people and things that we have in place will make it so that we're okay, like, you don't have to live like that. But also too, I feel like it's a more stressful environment, like that whole more money, more problems situation, because now

We are technically employing a large group of people to work for us to help us create the content that we have. So now I'm thinking about how many people's livelihoods we're responsible for. And that's a different kind of pressure.

When you think about it, it's like it's not just about us, it's trying to make sure that our people around us are also staying afloat. So that's an added layer of stress. Like back in November, um, so that I had this breakdown unlike anything I've seen before. Um, I don't know. He doesn't mind sharing it because he's spoken about it. Um, but he was filming his, I think it was six season of sisters or teama and pretty much passed out on set and

When I spoke to him and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm going to make that a wedding. And I'm like, you know, what's going on? And he's just like, Oh, I'm dehydrated. I'm really stressed out and whatnot. And I said to him to God, like, if you don't feel well this weekend, maybe you can't make it to work on Monday, like they're going to have to understand your health comes first. And he literally was like, no, I have to go to work because I have to make this money because I have people I have to pay.

And that was the main reason why he couldn't even take the time to get 100% back to himself health wise because he had to stress us thinking about how many people we had that were depending on us.

That's another level of stress that you deal with in a financial space. No, I mean, Tiffany, you understand this. When you become your own company, you sort of become an economy for so many people. And when you become that economy, it only works as you work. And when you've entrusted people, you put it on them like, hey, I need you to help me.

Help me make this happen, but also they've entrusted you. So it's like now they put their livelihoods and their dreams and stuff in your pretty much in your lap and say, hey, as long as you work, I'm here to help facilitate that. But during that time, I didn't realize how much financially, how much pressure that would be on us financially.

And we're at that point now, like I said, we live in abundance and we always want to pay forward and help people. But it is like a huge responsibility to make sure that we always bring in enough to make sure that we can put it back out there. Can I give you some advice and feedback?

Of course you can, because you already know how. Well, I was like, I was there. Look, could you was like, girl, let me get my notebook. Right. So this is for. So this is, that's a stage in entrepreneurship that, you know, many of us reach, especially if we are the face of our brand, like Mandy has our own business. She teaches career and negotiating, especially to women. And so in the beginning, yes,

you are the face, first it's just you, you know, because you're like, I ain't got money to pay nobody. So you do all the things. And then if you're fortunate, business grows, you bring on help. And then they're working side by side. And then you get to a point where it's like, you literally, for many people, you have to work in order to provide for not just your family, but your business family.

And that's where it gets tricky because same, I had like my blood pressure was through the roof. I mean, it was to the point was like, you've been to have a heart attack Tiffany, because you can't be no 160 170 over 100. I mean, it was, I stopped taking my blood pressure. Like, I didn't have, I wasn't on medication, but the doctor was like, if you come back with this blood pressure like this again, I'm going to put you on medication. I gained like 30 pounds. The level, I was so stressed. I didn't know what it felt like not to be stressed.

Yeah. You know, I used to tell myself, I'm a morning person, because I woke up every morning at 4 or 5 a.m. until I realized I'm not necessarily a morning person. It was anxiety. I could not sleep. Even in my dreams, I was working in my dreams. I remember literally in my dreams on a computer. Can you imagine? Well, you know. Yeah. So it shouldn't have to take tragedy. But I knew like a year or so before my husband passed away, I knew that something had to shift because I was declining.

And I was trying to make these small little shifts and small little shifts. And it wasn't really enough. And it wasn't until Giro passed away that I realized I have to make a huge sweeping change. Because you got to choose Tiffany, you either going to grieve over your health or grieve over your husband. Because I just didn't have the capacity to do both. And so I said, I need to get my health together. And one of the ways is I had to revamp the way I did business.

That it doesn't like now the way the business runs largely it doesn't Have to fully depend on me hitting the track Because it at one point it was like if because I could not work for six months after he passed away And I saw like a whole new side of people who I thought were down for whatever when I could no longer dance You know dance to dance to make sure everybody ate and so slowly but surely I started to shift my business and

I had to reduce some staff, you know, it wasn't pleasant, but I had to. And to shift the way, like I pivoted from, the money has to come from Tiffany being there to what are other ways. So I'm in the, the budget needs is in the business of community and content.

That's what I told my team. So how do we monetize the community? How do we monetize the content where it doesn't depend on me going out to speak? So even now we are in the middle of like this huge shift in pivot because right now it used to be 100% Tiffany. Now it's about 70, 60, 70% Tiffany. By the end of the year, my aim is 50%. By next year, 30%. But it has to be intentional or you will work yourself to the ground.

So the key in all things when it comes to business in particular, I've been talking to a lot of people this week is that I call it, you want to start to pre-pivot, meaning you should be able to, in your business, look into the future and say, this is where this is headed. Sick, overwhelmed, overworked it. So before we get there three years from now, what do I need to do now? Because you will have to pivot because your body is going to force you. But if I can pre-pivot,

do it willingly. I can take my time and I can do so. And although it's hard and not everyone's going to be happy about it, but I could do so. So in three years, when the event happens or whatever, then I've already done the work or the foundation or whatever it is that I'm needing to do. And so that's just for all business owners for YouTube, Mandy.

is that ideally what you hope is that you bake this in to your business model, that you don't go so far, that it's just like, you, you, you, you, and if you haven't, you know, you start, you have to ask yourself like, well, how do I want, what am I in the business of? How do I want my business to make money outside of me? What do I need to start doing to start to integrate that into the business now? Because I promise you, like a reckoning is coming if you don't, because if you pass that on set, the body keeps the score. It's like, I don't care what you're talking about that you find, I say you're not laid out.

You know, and so, like, I don't want that for anyone listening. And so, yeah, I just, it's something we could talk offline about, like, some ideas, like, you know, because I literally just meeting with my friend, Lovey yesterday, my friend, Rose was like, can't we talk? Everyone is just like, can't we talk? Because I'm the queen of the pre-pivot, like, we gotta get ahead of this thing before it takes me out. Wait, the conversation is getting so juicy, but we gotta take a break, pay some bills, you know? So we will be right back with Cadine and Zaval Stayput.

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And we're back in black. Yeah, I mean, as a couple, like I, listen, I mean, we were at my husband and I were at a friend's, a friend, a couple of friends house yesterday and they were making pizzas. And like, it's really hard to not compare yourself to other couples, right? I don't know, for me anyway, I try not to. I've gotten there about not comparing my son to other kids, but I'm just like, wow, they've been making these pizzas and I haven't heard either of them like snap or like, you know, like there's enough space in the kitchen for them. Like, what's wrong with us?

But can y'all talk about like, I mean, and I'm sure in the book, you know, you talk about this too, how there are imperfect, not imperfections, but just the reality of being, you know, too strong, independent-minded people in a relationship. Have there been moments where like one of y'all had wanted to go one way and the other, the other direction and you were just like doing this tug of war and how you maybe navigated that?

Either of us are so strong in our thoughts that we're not willing to bend. There's no power struggle here, nor is there forcing of one to be the leader and be right in that moment. I feel like whoever is better equipped in a certain moment to do whatever the task is, we do it. And if we feel strongly about something, we voice that and then we find a way to work around it, because usually for the most part,

I feel like we usually land in the space where the vow is like, I really don't care about this particular thing. If you hear that much about it, go ahead and make a decision and I'm on rock with you. I think we both respect each other enough to know that we're never going to lead each other too far straight. And if we see it happen and we know how to really try to back in. But having really struggled with anything much

No, I think part of this kind of goes back to what Tiffany was saying, but I'm I love the pre pivot So I'm good at foreseeing when things I'm like something something like that's why last year to me was an anomaly but when it comes to us making decisions

There's no wrong decision. So if Cadine is strong minded about something and say, for example, it goes in the direction that I don't foresee it being positive or successful, I'm like, babe, how about we try this so we make move this way? It's no blame game. It doesn't matter who made the decision. This is the decision we go in because one of us is strong minded about it and it works out perfectly badly celebrated. If it don't, let's pivot before it gets too bad and move on.

that type of idea that there's no wrong decision or no bad decision allows us to not argue about what we're going to do. Because most of those arguments tend to be, well, you made the mistake. You made the decision. If we would have did it my way, and in my mind, there is no my way. You know, we've been doing this together since 18. And when I say together,

I mean, right now may be the vowel season because I'm on television and I'm the one who came up with Instagram and all this other stuff. But there was a point when it was cadine season and I had to just be the person to just rock with her. I was an old American in college and she needed help with her white balance filming for her while she was working for News 12. I got the camera on my shoulder. I got the paper out and I'm trying to do this because I have to play my part in her dream as well.

So since we've been used to for 20 years, always playing our role in the other person's ideas and success, it's like, all right, well, what do you want to do? How are we going to do it together? And that's essentially how we came up with the title of the book, Sideward. I was just about to say, David, over me.

camera on his shoulder. You are aging us my good man. So we over me if anyone's listening whether they're single partner and married or whatever what do you hope like what's like one of some key lessons that you hope people take away you know for their own lives whether they're partners or not.

Well, the first thing is what we over me, we hope that folks know that this is not like a relationship how to book. I know it kind of gets put under those categories, but we really didn't want it to be a book that people went to thinking like we're going to give them some outline of what made the perfect marriage or the best relationship because we don't profess to have all the answers. What we were hoping to do in the book is

to just share a little bit about our love story, our journey, because a lot of times people will see us and then be like, oh my God. Kadeen, what was your prayer? Deval, what was your prayer? How did I get this Deval? How do I get Kadeen? And it's like, Kadeen and Deval, you see today is 20 years in the making. We didn't just wake up like this. I'm reminding myself that. I'm like, mm-hmm, they said 20 years. It's been less than 10 babes. How long have you been with your husband?

About 2012, like 11 years together and married five. So I'll make you some insight we'll put to the bit. Okay. Our first five years of marriage was terrible. Like throw back.

And you didn't have to deal with the pandemic. Well, this was no pandemic and this was NFL. So it was like everything was bliss free, you know, free college education, everything. And we had been together eight years before that. So we're telling you is after the first 13 years of our friendship slash courtship slash marriage, we were at each other not not knowing how to do this thing.

So, and we like to tell people that because people will get into a relationship and after six months, we're like, ah, I shouldn't be this hot. We're supposed to be bliss. And it's like, 13 years, it took for us to be like, wait a minute. I got to change my mindset if I want to be successful moving forward. And Focadina.

We want people to understand that it's about choices, right? The first thing we say in the book is that you don't have to stay where you're not wanted or where you don't want to be. And it's okay to move forward. The biggest thing is we work because I make a choice to be here and she makes a choice to be here. The obligation to be there because of a title or because of children will put you in a trap where you feel like your backs against the wall and creates more issues than anything else.

The first step that I want to say to anybody is choose yourself. Make that choice to be like, you know, I want to be in this situation, whether it's monogamous, polygamous, like there's so many different lifestyles, choose whichever one works for you. For us, monogamy works. For somebody else, it may not work. And it's okay to choose what you like. And once you make that choice, be ready to be a service to whatever you're in a relationship with. And that's really what we want people to understand.

make a choice to choose yourself. And if you want to be in a relationship, be of service to that person. Don't go through that relationship thinking, this person better check all these boxes that I've created for this super imaginary person. And the first box they don't check, I'm out of here. How can you be a service to someone else in a relationship? That's what we really want. Right. That's why the subtitles, the counterintuitive approach to getting everything you want out of your relationship. Because like the facet, typically you think about getting into a relationship and things, think about what you can gain from a person, right? This person has to have all these things.

for in order for us to be in a relationship where our approach which we've learned over the years that makes more sense and leaves us feeling like things are reciprocated is where we really tap into how we can be a service. So in the mornings, for example, I've learned to, you know, wake up, you know, think about my day, look over to Val and be like, hey, you know, what can I do today to make your day that much brighter? How can I alleviate something off of your plate so that your stress level is a little bit reduced today? And just by doing that alone,

I've realized that while, like, bring something up for him, in turn, let him know that I care, A, B, makes you stay that much lighter, and then C, he's probably more inclined to say, damn, hey, you really thought about me this morning, what can I do to reciprocate that? Well, can you tell me how we got there? Because it wasn't like in a Piphany. I'm like, this is like Michelle Obama when she came out talking about 10 years, I forget if it was the first 10 years, or there was a 10-year period of her in Baroque's marriage. It's so important, and I wonder if this is like,

something to note to because, I mean, black love, you know, hashtag black love. There's now a series called black love. And have you guys been on that? You should be on that. You were on it. We want season two. Oh, amazing. Okay. I'm like, duh, because y'all are like the Randall and Beth in real life from

This is like real life, Randall and Beth, but even they had their challenges. And I feel like it's important because yes, we need more imagery of Black love and like beautiful reciprocated relationships and full and complete relationships. We just want to your point about Hollywood and entertainment. We don't really see that. So often at the same time, I don't know if we do ourselves as a service, if we don't also show the struggle and show the work that goes into that. So it's really great that you guys are sharing that. I'll stop now because I'm being poured into so you can continue.

Yeah, I'm gonna say, you said, yeah. So yeah, Devar, how did you get, like, what was that five years in and then there was a switch? Like, what happened?

So there was a moment, five years in, and this is 2016, 2016. Kadena and I had already decided that we were gonna, you know, this year was gonna be our year, we're gonna have another child because we almost lost Kadena in having Jackson. She had a cervical tear, she had a cervical tear, having Jackson, she was bleeding out, she had to have emergency surgery. I had made a promise to God, I said, you know, if you get my wife through this, I would not have another child and I would cherish this woman and this child for the rest of my life.

That was my promise to God, and I was just like, I just want my life to be okay. And Kaden made it through, and I was like, I don't want any more kids. Five years later, Kadena and I both decided, like, you know what? If you feel comfortable, let's try to have another child. So in that moment, that was 2015, actually. We were trying to get pregnant, and Kaden wasn't getting pregnant.

So we had both made it. We were like, hey, listen, we're getting older. We should be in the best shape of our life. We almost died having the first child. You have to be in better shape. We got to work out together. We got to eat better. We got to get more sleep. But we had pretty much said to each other these promises that we were going to do to make sure this pregnancy was going to be better. And coming off of Christmas time, there was another financial issue. The American Express girl was run up.

Neke Dean had an argument about the American Express bill. Walk into the gym the next day. This is the right after the American Express argument. And she was like, she's going to go workout.

I go to work out. I'm training clients. I'm doing everything at this point. Kadee wasn't working full time because I had took on all that loads where she can relax. I'm getting ready to leave the gym. She still hadn't worked out. I snap. Now you've talked about snapping. I snapped. You know what the problem is? You procrastinate too much. Every time I'm trying to get something done, it's always like I got to wait for you and wait for you and wait for you. I'm tired of waiting for you.

You run up the American Express Bill, you're not working anymore. It was just everything was just unloading, unloading, unloading. So now, if you know my wife, my wife is very passionate, Jamaican and Vincentian women from Brooklyn. She's coming back at me. We're going back and forth. And this is how bad it talks to you.

We're screaming at each other in the gym in my office. Screaming and cursing, screaming and cursing. And I said to her, you know why I think we need to get a divorce. And she's like, are you serious or am I yes? Because you're effing lazy, right? This is, I scream in my wife. She goes, I'm not effing lazy, devout. I'm effing pregnant.

And I go, damn, you had a trump card in your back pocket. I feel like trash. So go ahead. Why don't you? I said, why don't you leave with that? Like, why does it have more satisfying that way? Clearly. Tell them because I'm like, man, we were trying for this. They don't finally party. Like, what's what we're going to do to make it that much more special?

And then I just couldn't hold it in that moment. I was like, wow. And in that moment when I had egg on my face, I realized that, you know, I claim to be a provider and a protector, because I made enough money to make sure my wife could be at home. If anybody got my wife face, I'm willing to do whatever I'm with. That's what I thought my version of providing and protecting.

And that moment I realized I wasn't providing and protecting anything. I wasn't there emotionally. I wasn't there spiritually. How did I not realize that my wife was going through a physiological change that she couldn't work out because she was having more in cities? And I said to myself, how am I going to be there to advocate for my wife in the, in the, in the,

opportunity that something happens to her again during her pregnancy, if I'm not paying attention. So I said to her in that moment, I said, Cadine, from this point on while you're pregnant, whatever you say, I got you. The answer is going to be yes. I'm going to be in service to make sure we get through this because it hit me like a ton of bricks. I have to be aware of what my wife is going through in her entire body. I almost lost her once. And here I am only focused on what I think I need to do as a man. Then I'm not paying attention to the person that's most important to me.

And then to that pregnancy, our relationship changed. Because I was so focused on being of service, being of service, being of service that could be started to reciprocate in a way that had never happened in our relationship. And then the light bulb hit me, boom. Why don't I do this one? She's not pregnant. Let me do this, let me do this. But then there was another shift and this is important.

Kadena got so used to me being a service because she had got pregnant, and they got pregnant again. That it was always about Kadena, about Kadena, about Kadena. And without always saying to Kadena, I'm fine, I got it. And I wasn't okay. And during the pandemic, December 2020, we're getting ready to go into 2021. I looked at Kadena and I said, you know, it's been four years since we've had Cairo. And when you wake up in the morning,

What's your first thing you think about? We have three kids now. She said, well, I got to make sure the kids get ready. I got to make sure I work out. I got to make sure I do this. I got to make sure there's the TV, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, do you realize that you mentioned everybody except me?

And for the first time, I was honest with her about how that made me feel. I didn't just sit back on it and get resentful. I didn't do what men typically do, which is I'll eat it. I'll do it in my own. I'm not going to say nothing. She better figure it out. I didn't do that. I told her exactly how it made me feel. And I told her what I wanted and what I needed. And I watched her go,

Wow, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that I always put you on the back burner because you always say you're okay. And I realized when I told her, like, how can I expect her to know that? If I always say, I'm fine, I'm good.

when I'm not. And in that moment, our relationship changed again. It went from me servicing her to us always serving each other. And I got to be honest, it was a meme that I saw yesterday. And it was a woman who said, when's the last time, it was like a bunch of us, when's the last time you said to your man, I'm proud of you, baby. I love you, baby. Thank you, baby. Are you hungry, baby? And I looked at all these things and I said, you know, my wife says those things to me a lot.

But it wasn't happening until I told her how it made me feel. And then she realized what I need because I told her what I need. And I think that's when our relationship changed.

Yeah, for sure. Cause I had just expected him to understand, you know, I'm like, I'm an adult, you're an adult. We have 2.5, 3 kids at this time, you know, we're not going on the plane. So I'm just just like, yo, we're all in, we're in the mud, like, you know, you and mine. Yeah. And I just expect him to vow to just be okay. Cause he always said he was okay. And now I'm literally looking at this man in his eyes, like, especially after his episode in November, I'm like, again, you're saying you're okay, you're and you're not okay. Um, so we've practiced that a lot more now and I can see how,

This has been a big shift in our dynamic and our relationship, even as recently and like the past three, four months, you know, because I had Dakota, our last son, the year before that. So back into the thick of being pregnant.

And especially when you have a partner who is quite independent and has their own thing going on, you sometimes can feel like, wait, we're parallel, like we're in, you said the mud, we're in the mud together, but like, this is your mud lane and this is my mud lane. And it's like, did you survive today? Yep. Did you survive? Yeah. Good night. And like the team huddle, like that connection, the bridge in the mud, that's what we are working on, I think, because I mean, and not that it's bad, but it's just like what, what we need right now, I feel like is just to,

do what we can to just own what we have going on. Um, and I think, yeah, I'm hoping that we could have a similar moment like that, because, um, to it matters, you know, it matters to have that time and to look into another person's eyes, even if they are strong and we are the strongest of the strong, right? And remind them that we got them yourself this grace. You are pregnant, right? The Dean was just pregnant. The Dean was pregnant last year.

Cadine didn't want to be nowhere near me or anybody in this house. Like, what women have to understand that like your body goes through physiological changes and you're not going to feel like yourself. And I wish there were more education and resources for both men and women how to deal with pregnancy.

Right? Because I, and this is, this is Kadina now, who just wrote a book, New York Times, the bestseller ever, the famous communicate great. While she was pregnant, I used to be like, Oh, I have not, you haven't hugged me or kissed me in three days. Do you realize you've been in that bedroom by yourself? And she was just like, I know, I just, I just don't feel like being around people, but I miss you. And I'm just like, I made it great. And I understand when you come in from it, I'm just letting you know how it's making me feel. But

That was 20 years in the making getting to that point when she had those moments before. Of course, I felt bad, but I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to articulate it. So give yourself grace and give you a husband grace and not knowing and understanding it's only been 10 years. And I know to people that sound crazy, it's only been 10 years. It should know each other by 10 years.

No, like it takes time for constantly, you know, readjust yourself to see what your partner was going through. It takes time. And there's never a point in a marriage, because I can tell you right now, as great as we think our marriage is now. Five years from now, when it gets even better, we're going to talk about this time and say, can you believe that's how we communicate it then? Like it's just that it's an ongoing conversation of trying to be better for each other. So give yourself grace and understand this. Whenever we do a live show, I talk about pregnancy for women.

and postpartum pregnancy, because this is the truth. The most disciplined human beings in the world and all of the armed forces, the Navy SEALs, the Army Rangers, the Marine Corps, you know what they train the hardest to deal with? Sleep deprivation. And you imagine that the most disciplined people in the world have to train to deal with sleep deprivation, but we expect mothers and expecting mothers to know how to deal with this in real time with no training

and balance being a new mom and a wife or girlfriend and a career and a house. It's damn near impossible. So you have to give yourself grace and

I think more men should be educated on giving women grace because I was the same imbecile that told my wife six months, six weeks after having our first child, you acting like you the first baby, first woman to have a baby. What'd you say I'm coming for? Okay, you breastfeed and all the breastfeed thread be three babies. You still a lot. You still a lot.

Just a real man inside. Okay. Got it. Got it. Just a regular regular man. Got it. I'm a regular regular man who doesn't know what to understand. That's why I like telling the stories because it took me four practices to be like, I wish I was a better part.

And it's probably because mothers do the same thing as like, we're super people. We don't want to admit that we're hurting. We don't tell that story. It's become really hard for them. It's hard when, and it's also hard to see your partner who, you know, we met when I was 25. He was in his mid 20s to change. And I'm not physically the person I was even a year ago. I can't keep up when we're walking. I'm like,

You know, and I, you know, running around after a toddler and all that, but it's, it's, I can see him being like, okay, she's different now. And almost a little bit like fearful or anxious, like, is this going to be forever? You know, these and I feel like, yeah, but that really resonates with me. And I don't want to draw nice to practice was what we call radical transparency, that if it comes up, it comes out.

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup

Well, like that radical transparency. Yes. So it was like, if it comes up, it comes out. Yes. But I learned, I mean, I'm so much better at it now that if something is wrong, because I was the queen of holding it and then three months later, because that time is like from three months ago, why did you say something? And then you build it. It's like you're dragging it around as gathering dust and dirt and debris. And then you throw it in their face and you're like, you should have known. It's like, how could I have known that?

How could I know that? And so now, with everyone, therapy has helped tremendously. I practice radical transparency, which is if it comes up, I would say 90% of the time, it comes out because if that's the lightest time you'll ever have. Like, hey babe, when you said that, they can actually hurt my feelings. Or I don't like when you say that when my friends are around.

you know and learning to like receive it without the initial because I'm very defensive I have four sisters so you know we can scratch I'm like first of all girl well we can't you know so I learned to be like receive it because what I'm really feeling is not it's not really anger it's shame because I know I'm wrong instead of fighting toward that it's like okay I could see that

Okay. And I get the, I get the, I call it the post socialization debrief. I'm the chatty one in the relationship. So I, I, he, he gets away with a lot because he doesn't say that much. So I can get myself in trouble. And then after we hang out with other people, I'll just get in the car and you get in the car and you have that moment. And I'm just like, what did I say? That was, you know, feelings.

He's like, you don't actually need to tell me. And he's like, good. And I was so defensive. Yes. But now I've just gotten better saying, I really didn't mean to. And it's just, I'm like, damn it. Why can't why do I do this? You know, but, you know, I don't want to be that way, but it's, yeah, but it's, it's definitely helps to get over things. Um, and I will say that's growth for us too, that he's even communicating that kind of stuff.

and creating a safe space that people can tell you about yourself, you know? And even maybe in the moment, like me and Gerald after a while came up with like signals, if I was doing too much, you know, it would just be like, I'm like, whoa, it was like, basically like, all I've been to is like, and wrapping it up. So you know, that way, because sometimes, you know, you don't realize, and I'm like, oh, okay.

you know, and so like creating these kind of like tools, we had like a safe word when we were, if we were going to be in an argument when it went from helpful to hurtful. Cause you know, you got to, ooh child, let me give her up. I'm going to rip her to straight. And so our safe word was pineapples. So it'd be like, and another thing, he'd be like pineapples. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? The rule of pineapples is like all speaking ceases, you go to your corner, I go to mine, you go to the man cave, I go up, see it, wherever. And it's like, you say what now? Pine, na.

Yes, yes, but I it gave me a moment to relax and loose on say you was about to say something really hurtful Tiffany.

So your teammate, y'all got the same jersey on. If he lose aloes. And so pineapples was like a saving grace to the point where we got so good at it, we were internally pineapples ourselves. Because I'd be like, in my head, I'd be like Tiffany pineapples to myself. Pineapples girl, you about to take it too far. And so but these are the things like like over time, you know, that like you just

practice and you work on if you're wanting to go from like an okay marriage so good, so great, exceptional. You know, every year, I mean, to your point, like the first five years for us was like, oof, dating, it was a hot mess. And then we got better and better. And once we got really good at communicating, it was like, we had like such an awesome and even still, he was still here, we were still growing. I was still like, oh, this, I could do this even better because I worked so much. He was really the type to be like, when I come home, I would love for my wife to be home, be like,

Daddy's home, you know, just a pause for a moment because I'd be like, okay, foods in the fridge. Yeah. I didn't realize how much it meant for him for me to pause. Yeah. Just come and greet him and how is your day? 20, 30 minutes and I can get back to whatever. Absolutely. And so like learning those little nuances made all this like there was nothing he wouldn't do because I made those, you know, those, those spaces for him and so. And the thing is, it sounds, it sounds cliche to what is true, right?

One thing I'll leave talk about in the book is you have to stop comparing yourself to other people's relationships. Because the minute you try to tell them make your relationship to other people's expectations, you're going to fail. You can't be the greatest version of somebody else. They're already being the greatest version of themselves.

And what works for you may not work for other people. So seeking validation from other people about what you should do and your relationship is also a recipe for failure. For example, Cadine and I have been on social media and also on television talking about online, right?

Of course, people have commentary. I would never put up with that. I would never do this. I would never do that. Most people get defensive and be like, I'm just sharing, how could you have these opinions about my marriage? I don't get offended about opinions about our marriage because people are entitled to have their opinions about what we do. But if it works for us, I'm not concerned about Taylor making my marriage to other people's opinions.

For example, Tiffany just said she wants us, her husband wanted her to be like, hey, daddy's home. You know how many women would have been like, I ain't never calling no man daddy. I ain't, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Traveling Kay wants to travel. We talked about our sex life. She loves to travel We have better sex will be traveling not many guys like I ain't buying a plane ticket just to have sex with a woman who wants to be with her You know exactly you don't have to I'm not asking you to do that for your girl. I'm telling you what works for me baby

For us, it's like, we do what works for us. We're unapologetic about it. I got some backlash because I said, listen, when I come home tonight, I want my wife with some point-point shorts and a crop top. And I want my food made so that I can be the best provider. I can be, of course, women will be like, this ain't the 50s. I don't know that.

I'm not telling you that you have to do that for your man. What I'm saying is, this is what works for us. She enjoys dressing up. I enjoy looking at it. I enjoy talking to her. All the stuff y'all saying y'all would never do is not going to change the fact that we do this for each other. Yeah. So, so when we talk about that in the book, it's like, stop the whole couple's goals. People ask me all the time, who was your favorite cup of gold millennials? I don't have them.

I want to be the best version of the violin cadine I could be. I don't look at anybody in this generation or even before and say I aspire because I don't want to fall short. There are certain things, for example, Barack may do for Michelle. And I notice, for example, I notice for a fact, when we first got married, I used to look at couples and be like, then he'd do that for his wife, and she gets excited about it. So I'm going to do it for my life. And I would do it, and Canadians would be looking at me.

And I'm like, you know what your problem is, you weren't grateful. So I felt like this great wife, her name was excited. And she was just like, I didn't ask you to do none of this. And I was just like, what did you mean you didn't ask? I was being thoughtful when I did it. And then I realized like, why am I going outward to find out what my wife wants? And why am I getting offended? Because my wife doesn't want what another woman wants. Why do I just ask my wife what she wants and do my best to provide it? The more I started to look inward,

and you write here and be like, baby, what you need, what you need, what you want. The easier it became as opposed to guessing by looking at other people. So I just want people when they read the book and when they think about relationships, stop thinking about everybody else. Focus here. Just focus here on what you got and do your best to be that version for that person because that's the person you chose.

Well, on that note, we really want to thank Cadine and Devau Ellis for coming on the show. If you do not have it already, we, over me, the counters to the approach to getting everything you want from your relationship. It is a New York Times bestseller, which is rare upon rare, upon rare, upon rare.

Rare don't do it. Especially black people on the cover. Look at this black. I wouldn't say chalk. I would say more peanut butter So where can they if they want to purchase this book where can they purchase it and then where can they find y'all to continue the conversation?

For sure. Well, the best place to get the book we've realized so far has been bookshop.org. This is a great way to support a local bookstore, independent stores in your area. So bookshop.org, Amazon, of course, Barnes and Nobles wherever you get your books.

You could find me, I'm Cadine, I am on Instagram, and I just started TikTok in my big age, y'all. So be with me trying to figure it out. And then our podcast page did ask the podcast on Instagram. Yes, and I am devout. And I'm used to doing this for the podcast. And if you're listening to Apple Music, you should have written this as well. You can subscribe to our channel too now. Yeah, you can subscribe. Or you can subscribe to Patreon for more long content from us. Okay.

Awesome. Thank y'all so much for sharing your life with us. Yeah, dope conversation. Yeah, dope conversation all day. Always good times. That's if we miss you, yo, mate. I know. You used to be on the show all the time. I know. People are sick of me. They're like, not that bunch of these the lady again. I'm like, whatever. Don't be a hater.

You know, you've always been one of our highest-rated shows. Every time you're on, people will be like, because you always drop so many gems. And people, especially black and brown people, need to understand how important financial security is and how they can gain access to it. People just think, I've got to be an athlete or entertainer to make money and build wealth. No, you don't. No, you don't. Tiffany has dropped so many gems on us that we've applied to our life and been like, oh shit, you see that work?

And I'm telling Tiffany what you do is amazing. We appreciate you, Mandy. It's good to get to know you. I'm pretty sure we can build our relationship and congratulations to you. I can tell that you're an amazing woman and you have to be

and even more amazing woman for your family and especially your husband. So keep working at it and hopefully he's doing the same on his end. Listen, these hormones will make me start crying. I can feel the prickles.

Oh, thank you so much. We hope that you love the show. Be a listeners. You know, we'd be having the best people on here. So go ahead and support me over me. You know, fine, cadine, the ball on social, listen to the podcast, dead ass, and we're going to see you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Hey, hey, hey, BA fan! We're on YouTube! Woo hoo! Thank you so much for watching. Please like this video and subscribe to the channel. And while you're at it, why don't you go over to that little bell icon and just tap that for us. Show the BA fan how much you love us. And that way, you'll also get notifications when new videos drop. Also, share the channel with a friend. We're always like, tele-friend, tele-friend, tele-friend. And thank you all so much again for all the support.

Welcome to talk bill the ultimate small bill rewatch podcast line a loofo stops by the kid home That's fine felt what it was the deal trying to blackmail her for the footage. Come on. He sees an envelope and goes He's behind it all thing. He's not he's not he made her Oh, he's the one that I want to get that I was pressed in that is a great scene interesting things of note talkville wherever you listen