We're running the best of the best calls of 2024. Kelly, you know, some of the ones off top of your HEAD. First one is, I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together. Whoa. The last one was a man who fantasizes about other women while having sex with his wife. We'll start the New Year off, right? Whoo! Happy New Year! Happy New Year.
I'm not here. I'm recording this way in the past. So I'm assuming 2025 rolled around. We made it. We made it. New Year's is my favorite time of the year. My favorite favorite favorite favorite time of the year because the whole world just says, eh, you get a mulligan on that one. You can literally say anything like, man, last year I really did a lot of drugs and burned a lot of houses down, but like,
Hashtag New Year, and everyone's like, yeah, you go. So I love New Year's. Everybody's like, control, delete. Let's try again. And I love it. I love it. I love it. So if you're listening today, I'm glad that you're here starting your New Year off right. And we're going to run a best of.
We're running the best of the best calls of 2024. Kelly, you know, some of the ones off top of your H.A.D.? I do. Well, also because I have them written right here. I was going to say, yeah, because it's setting in. Kelly's starting to slow down. God, you got them written down. What's up? Yes. All right. So this one was the first one is I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together. What? Oh, do you remember how she how she found out? No. Oh, it's pretty good. Let's just say she and the wife came face to face.
Oh, yeah. And then the next one was, is my wife having an affair with the neighbor? And I think we all agree the answer was a definite yes. Oh, well, yes. 100%. I remember leaving being like, yes. I mean, yeah, we all knew that clearly. And then the last one was a man who fantasizes about other women while having sex with his wife. So there you go. Happy New Year, people. Start the New Year off. Right. Man, I was.
Sometimes I leave the show in one of two ways. I leave the show like I just exhale. And sometimes I'll text my wife and just be like, just so you know, we're doing great. We're doing great. And then other times people call in and they're like, Hey, I'm wondering if my like wife's having a fair and they roll through like what's going on. And it's like a thousand percent. Yes. How do you not see that?
But then it makes me wonder, like, what are the things in my life that I'm just super unaware of? I'm sure y'all have lists. Are you wanting me to, like, to go through the list? Check everybody. Check it out. The best show, like the three top shows of 2024. Happy new year. If nothing else that will remind you, you're probably doing pretty good. Check it out.
All right, let's go out to Lucy in the sky with diamonds in Pittsburgh. Hey, what's up, Lucy? Hi, thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today. I appreciate it. How are you? I'm great. Thank you for taking time to call in. What's up? So I started a relationship with someone. I do happen to work with them. And it was over the course of a year.
And things progressed, even got to the point where we wanted to move in together and find a lease. And I knew this person was married, but it was a friend to me that they were separated. I didn't understand that it was capital M, Mary. Lucy, you have to lead with that.
Yes, lead with that. You did such a good job. So I didn't know that, but I was under the understanding that they were separated and beginning the process of divorce, which, you know, hindsight's 2020. I realized that divorce should come first before anything else. No way. No way. So I mean, yeah, I didn't understand.
the situation at the time and which is kind of rolling with it and, um, okay, but you understand it now though, right? Yes, of course. Okay. So this guy sucks and he's, he's untrustworthy and he's cheated on one. He'll cheat on you. And so we're moving on, right? Yeah, I guess that's, that's the, the question is, is how to move on. So,
You know, he still talks to me. He still says that he has the same feelings and wants the same thing. Why does he have any contact with you? We work together. So we're around each other. I've been in some pretty cold work relationships. I work with Kelly. I've been in some pretty cold like work relationships. Yeah. You still want to hold your life.
It's hard to let go of. I'm not going to lie. No, it's super hard, but you still want it to happen. In my perfect dream world, yes, I understand that perfect dream world don't exist. I love a good story, I guess. Yeah. And it's hard when someone's still saying all these things to you, not to hold space in your life for them. And I'm afraid that I'll pass up on good things because in the back of my head, there's no good here. There's no good here.
Yeah. Can I tell you an alternative hypothesis? Yeah. I think you are upset, slash confused as to who you've become. And it's easy to connect to. I have a close buddy who had an affair with such a left turn for him in a million years would never be that guy. And instantly.
dropped up in that relationship to try to make that work because that was the only path to redemption in his mind. I have a friend who's a woman who just completely poured her soul out to somebody. It happens all the time where I can't believe I've become this. And you never set out to be somebody who would be the other woman who would date a married man, fall in love with him, sign a lease with him. And then there's this picture in your mind when you look in the mirror of
Oh, you're a kind of woman who does that. Yeah. And so now you have a vested interest in somehow making this thing work with this guy to almost to wrap your, to build a wall around the collateral damage here. I'm going to tell you, the lack of character of this man is so powerful because it's not like he had a workplace crush. It's not like he got it in over his head. It's not like he had a one time affair.
He took someone along his fantasy ride. He used you so badly. And by the way, you used him after you found out. Because he becomes a way to get fully emotionally invested without ever crossing a line, right? Because you know he's anchored at home. The whole thing is zero good that can come from this. That's a very fair, fair assessment. Yeah.
I don't know how to break that connection in my brain. I don't know. You have to cut it off. It's like it's like stopping drinking. You can't just keep going to the same bar. Right. You can't have alcohol in your house. I've got friends who've been in recovery for 20 years and they can be around it all day long and bother them at all. But that first, that first couple of years, it's scorched earth. I can't be around the same people. I can't go to the same places.
And at some level, you have to get some, some, some, whether you have to manufacture it or you have to just let it go. I can't believe you're not enraged at what a lying sack of crap is going on. That is what I hear a lot is people are like, I can't believe you don't hate him and I don't. No, it's not. It's rage. Like, hate's kind of a waste of time. I'm talking about like,
Like a guy that would sign a lease with you. Yeah. Take it that far. Yeah. Yeah. It's disgusting to me. And I didn't find everything out until after the fact because... Can I tell you something? You still don't know everything. Because I promise you, he tells his wife something differently than he's telling you. Oh, I would bet my life on it. Promise.
I don't talk to that woman at work. She's kind of crazy. She follows me around everywhere. She always is texting. All I want to do is be with you. We've built this life together. I work with a crazy person, but I can't get a new job right now. You're the other story. But you can't control that other story. You can't control what a spineless line coward he is. You can control what kind of spineless line coward you are. Stop. Stop.
I think I think the picture I was painted in the story I was originally sold, like it's hard to attach those words to that person, but I have to like realize that that person doesn't exist. Ah, there you go. You created somebody in the world and you backfilled it with that dude. Yeah. Yeah.
100%. But you also haven't done the hard work to backfill reality with you. You're a woman who's continuing to be attached to a married man. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're worth more than that. I think you're better than that. Does that make sense? Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Do you? I definitely struggle in the self-worth front, which is why I think I
accept the treatment that I do and accept the situations that I'm admittedly and take full responsibility got myself into. Yeah, but I can hear you. I can hear you, uh, gulping it down. I want you to stop. I want you to feel it because you're really good at passing over how much all this hurts. Is that fair? It's sitting right there at the top, isn't it? Yeah, it hurts. It hurts a lot.
It hurts that you were lied to and it hurts that you found yourself having acted like this person. Yeah, 100%. And I don't like easily feel that way about people or commitment is definitely something I struggle with. So I just.
I worked on that for the wrong person, the wrong situation, the wrong everything. Well, here's another all. Here's an second alternative hypothesis. He was the safest person for somebody to get involved with who is a commitment phobic. Because you can go all in and imagine this life and way down. You know, it's not going to come true because he's got a wife.
help sabotage that it's finest. Well, and you've probably have a history of dating people who have built in, like, have shown their true colors already as you're getting to know them or as you become involved with them and they leave you and this guy will find somebody to cheat on you with and leave you and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And you'll say, see, I told you, Lucy. There.
very fair, very accurate. So you have to decide you're worth somebody being somebody's only one, which means you have to risk getting hurt. And by the way, like just from a data perspective, you've proven it to yourself. Like that your way gets you hurt too. Yeah.
So you can't fix anything that has happened up into this point, but you can do the next right thing. And just completely cut contact. And that's definitely going to be a challenge because before anything turned into anything, this person, it started out as friendship, which I'm sure you've heard a million, million times over.
It, I didn't, I didn't mean for it. And it sounds stupid. I didn't mean for it to get this far, but of course not. Nobody does. Man, that's, that's why I, that's why I'm not screaming at you. And if the roles were reversed and he was on the phone, I'd be mad at him because he's married. Um, but nobody, nobody plans for it to get like this. I get that. But somebody has to call it at some point and not continue to fantasy train right off a cliff. Um, and by the way, you can't
I don't think you can make this switch long term that doesn't come from a place that you believe in your bones that you're worth more than this. Yeah. Because if you don't, you're going to break up with them because you're pissed or you're angry or like some indignant like, yeah.
And that kind of like when there's like a great painter or musician and you walk up to him, you're like, I need you to know you changed my life. That's amazing. But that doesn't pay the light bill, right? Like it'd be cool if you bought a record or a ticket. Similarly, you can break up with somebody because you're enraged. That doesn't make the two AM loneliness go away. Right.
Right. And you have to decide I'm worth it. That doesn't make the loneliness go away per se, but it does. It backfilled with a sense of virtue and character and worth. You're just worth more than this, man. Thank you for saying that because I don't know what you feel. I know you don't. I know you don't.
I go, I go to therapy. I work on it, but I know, but what does your therapist say? What is your therapist said about all this? Um, that I don't know. It was a cruel thing to do to someone. Um,
I didn't find out about everything until after a lease was signed. We were making lease payments. It was like when he was supposed to move in that things got weird. And that's when I was like, something's not right. So I went to his house and that's how I kind of found everything out. Did his wife answer the door? Yeah. Oh, for real? I was kind of joking. She was like, who are you? And I was like, I
I think we need to talk about some things because I don't think I understand what's going on and I don't think you know what's going on. God, Lucy, lead with that next time. That's awesome. That's great. Radio. All right. So did y'all get in a fistfight on the parking lot? What happened? No, she was so oddly calm about it. Sure. Not the first one. All right. No, it wasn't. And he told me that, you know, obviously,
Like I said, I thought they were separated and he was like, I've never stepped out on my marriage, like blah, blah, blah. And she was like, obviously, by my reaction, and you can tell that this has happened before it's never gone this far, but it's happened before. And that's not even the end of the saga. So that all happened. And he's like, well, everything's out in the open now so I can actually leave. He ends up bringing a bag to the house that we signed for.
And then tells me it's over. They're getting divorced, whatever. And then he leaves. And I have to go back and be like, she sent people to my house to look for him. And I was like, but what the hell is going on? Like, I can't believe anything that's being said. And so her and I confronted him together. Oh, God, I wish we would have had that on record. That would have been awesome.
I did record. I didn't think anyone knows that, but my phone was on in my pocket. Um, just for my own. Did other girlfriends come to or is it just y'all too? Just us. Just us. I don't, I don't know the other two that I that y'all know of. But here's a deal. Here's a deal. Here's a deal. Right now, I want you to take out your phone. I don't want you to delete his contact. Okay.
Do it like right now. Okay. Put me on speaker and do it. All right, it's gone. It's gone. It's gone. The moment this call is over, I want you to send an email on your work email. Okay. It says I'm cutting off contact with you. I don't want to talk to you electronically. I don't want you to call me. I don't want you to text me. I don't want you to email me anymore. If you do, I'll consider it harassment.
and a violation of our professional working relationship. Send. I like that. You're so. Okay. I wish I had you on top all the time. You don't trust me. I'm a mess. But right now I'm doing all right. But hold on. You're then going to have to, you're going to be empty. Yeah. And you're going to have to backfill that with friendships. You're going to have to backfill that with other people that you call.
And you're going to have to deal with the holiness that you feel because you became somebody that you don't respect. No, I don't at all. I'm telling you from the outside, you're worthy of that respect, but you got to, you got to act different. You got to be someone who doesn't date married men. Yeah. My first and last, I swear. Okay. We're done.
We're done. We learned a lot. Unfortunately, the hard way, but that's how I seem to do. We did. We did. And by the way, going back to the friendship stuff, you lost him as like a friend just for whatever it's worth. Like my non. I was about to say my non sexual friends. That's all but one. My my friends who are not like there's no romantic interest or whatever. I don't hang out with people. I hang out with guys that are questionable on a lot of fronts. I love them, but they're man.
They make different choices than me. But I don't hang out with dudes who cheat on their wives. I just don't. I just don't. I hang out with people who make mistakes and I hang out with people who say they're sorry and I hang out with people who any number of different values than me, different beliefs than me. But forget the romantic part. Don't be around this dude because he's a kind of scumbag that cheats on his wife.
He's the kind of scumbag that continually over and over destroys the humans in his life. I'm just not going to be around that kind of person. I'll walk with him if they say they want to get better. They want to change their life. But that's just as a rule of life, man. Life is too short. There's too many amazing people out there trying to do the next right thing.
Today's your Independence Day, my friend Lucy. Today's your day of freedom. And today's the day, you got to deal with a lot of hard stuff, including the things that you've done and the person that you were becoming. We're going to become something different starting today. Hang on the line, I'm going to send you a copy of building a non-anxious life. That's going to be my gift to you. But if you call them, or you respond to a text message, or if he emails you and you don't send it on to HR, you have to send the book back.
you won't, but that's my rule. Thanks for the call, Lucy. We're rooting for you.
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Okay, I want to tell you about cozy earth. Over the last few weeks, my sleep has been off. I've been spending time more on screens than I like, and I'm traveling. I'm just feeling all over the place. Here's the deal. Starting the year off right starts with good sleep. And that means creating a space that helps you rest.
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because we all want to sleep and rest well, we show up better for ourselves and our families. And right now, Cozy Earth is offering a 40% off discount code exclusively for the Dr. John Deloney show listeners. Visit cozyearth.com slash Deloney and use code Deloney. That's cozyearth.com slash Deloney. Hey, Joe, what's up? Yes, sir. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. You got it. I appreciate it. What's up, brother? Nothing much, so pretty much.
I found my wife in an emotional affair with my neighbor for over a year now. I found out a couple weeks ago I looked through the call logs on the phone. I knew something was going on between the two of them. I confronted him three times and I confronted her. I'm being honest with you. It was probably two to three times a day. We would consecutively argue about it. He would buy my son.
clothing for school and just stuff for his room and he would cook my wife dinner a lot and in front of me they had nicknames and everybody denied it and I'm having a hard time believing her and anything she says her mother passed away about two years ago and she was swearing on her deceased mother and our son that nothing was going on and then when I confronted her it was
It was the blame was on my end and things weren't good. And it's been going on for about a year. We were in a couple of therapy starting this January. I was unaware of everything, but I knew something was off in the marriage and I was trying to make it better. And I can't even get away because he is at my home. He's next to me at home and he is there when I go to the gym, at the same gym. So I can't even have an escape.
that way. And I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not even sure where my head is at. I can't trust anybody. And this is where I'm stuck out right now. Yeah, I do. That's a terrifying place to be, man. I'm sorry. That's OK. It's not OK, man. It's not. You don't got to make me feel better. I'll just sit here with you. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Do you have little ones? I do. I have one three-year-old son. Yeah. I'm not even. I don't want to come home.
I literally can't get away and she said that she broke it off with him and our houses are so close to you. If I put a hammer through the wall, you can probably see his living room. That's where we're right next door. But she said that she broke it off.
And then about two weeks ago, I asked her, we were just talking and I asked her what she had for dinner. And she said that she didn't eat. And this is something little, but it's just the fact that it happened. And she said that she didn't have dinner because she wasn't hungry because of everything going on. And then I got home. I worked late and I got home that morning. And there was food. And that was not ours. And how I know is because it was on a paper plate that was not ours in the garbage.
And she wasn't honest with me again. And he keeps talking to her and saying hi. And yeah, they both said that it was nothing sexual, but I don't believe the two of them because, like I said, he, I confronted him three times about it. And my wife twice a day, two, three times a day for the last year. So. Man.
There's not a good, there's not like a, it's not written in a textbook somewhere with the next move is. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to give you with all of my, the time I've spent sitting with people who've had emotional affairs and full blown sexual affairs and all, I'm like, my personal experience, all of it. Okay. I would probably leave for 30 days. Okay.
Because here's the thing, your wife is just lying to you and lying to you and you're going crazy. And it's hard to stay clear because every time you go to the safest, what should be the safest place in the world, which is your home, you're in fight or flight the entire time. Correct. Every time you go to work, you're in fight or flight. And the other option would be I'm going to go stay in an apartment for 30 days and we're going to put the house in the market. I must sell this house because that's the only way you're going to save your marriage.
Yeah. And if she says, I think that's a great idea. Let's do that. Cool. And if she says absolutely not, this is where we live, yada yada, then she gets to make a choice. Do you want this? Do you want to fight me for this home? Or we're going to sell this home when we're the other. We're going to sell it through when the judge forces the sale of the home and we split the assets up, the equity up, or we can sell it now and try to save our marriage. I don't mean to throw another curveball at you. Throw them all, man. Throw them all.
So this past February of this year, we jointly filed bankruptcy. So we could sell it, but as far as buying, I'm pretty sure we can buy your past all that. Yeah. Um, Joe, your wife is sleeping with your neighbor. Period. In the story. You know that. I know that they both know that. Yeah. And they would face time too. I forgot to mention that Joe.
If you're done with this marriage, be done with this marriage. An important family death, bankruptcy, those are two of the most powerful stressors on a marriage. Yes, sir. An affair? I mean, it's the trifecta.
Yeah. But now you're at a place where you keep coming back to drink more poison and more poison and more poison. And I don't even, I haven't heard you once say, I am desperately in love with this woman and I want to try to save this marriage. I hear you pissed. Yeah, I'm, I thought I was past the anger stage. No, dude, your wife cheated on you right in your neighbor waves at you. Yeah. I'm afraid you're going to end up in jail. You know why? Because I would. Yeah.
I don't have the strength to go through what you're doing every day. I thought I made the right, honestly, I thought I meant the right call, staying for my son and try to work it out. But I'm just, I'm angry. I can't even look at her. It's like she, you know, she's trying in that aspect. But when I first found out it was like the end of June and I just said a divorce probably, I want to say like two, two weeks ago, then that's when she started her change.
I'm like, well, you know, why did it take me to say a divorce? And, you know, I don't want to come home. I don't want to be around anybody. I'm, I'm angry. I'm upset. I can't, I can't believe anybody. I don't believe a word that she's saying, you know what I mean? Even though she's, she could be telling the truth very well. Here's the deal. Here's what you have to, here's the work you have to do. Yes, sir. What does the path to trust look like for you?
Because let's say we can't sell the house. We are stuck here in this house. It's against the law for us to sell, which is not true, but let's just make up something. Okay. Yeah. What does trust look like? Trust looks like a no contact order. Trust looks like you saying you are forbidden from coming on my property. And if you come on my property, you call my house again. You're on notice now. I'm going to file a harassment complaint.
And your wife cuts off everything. She throws her phone in the sink and lets it and loses all contacts and starts completely over. Yeah. But here's the deal, bro. She did all this stuff and she, and he made her dinner and they had dinner together last night. You know what I mean? Yeah, I understand. You've heard me say this a thousand times, behavior is a language. She's being very clear with you. No, I understand. And right now she's got a gravy train, which is you going off to work and then coming home. She worked too.
Uh, yeah, she works on a day and then I work second shift from three to, um, the night. Okay. Yeah. So y'all effectively never see each other. And she has eight hours a day when she gets to spend with a man next door. That is correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of the minute I leave for work, I leave the house around two and then that's when the calls would happen. Of course. Yeah. I guess I'm just still processing this and I don't even know. Yeah.
But here's the deal. I'm afraid you're about to do something stupid. Will you promise me that you're not going to go to jail? Of course. Yeah, I have a three-year-old. Excellent. Excellent. I don't want to make it worse for anybody. And for whatever it's worth during a divorce proceeding, every one of her text messages will be subpoenaed. Every one of her emails will be subpoenaed, even the deleted ones. Everything is on the table. OK, yours too. Yes, sir.
And so there's a chance you end up a full custody here because she doesn't want to be married to you. I mean, yeah, she's, I mean, she's a great mom and I, you know, I couldn't ask her better mother that way. Yeah. Yeah. A great mom doesn't bring another man to the house every night. Yes, sir. And our son, like, just to bring one more incident up, like, you know, we were painting our son's room and, um,
we were in the middle of it and him and I started it and nothing was done and she got the next the following day she got out of work at two I left and I called her around my six thirty break time and she said that the room was finished and done and I didn't believe her because I know how much that takes especially with a three year old by herself and then
You know, I get home that next day because I get home at night and I was at the room and it's it's beautiful. Everything was cut into all the corners and I look on the tarp and there was paint brushes and rollers that I don't have and our son consecutively says that I don't want to say names, but but the neighbor mommy and
And we're all painting the room. And she obviously denies it, but this is. Yeah. You can hear it. You're saying it out loud, can't you? Yeah. Listen, like if we were in person, if I was sitting in Connecticut right now with you in New Haven, I was just there a few weeks ago. If I was there with you right now, I would stop the conversation and I'd give you a hug. Because I know the path is it's in front of you is gnarly.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No miracles happen, but this sounds like your marriage is over and it sounds like now we're just waiting for somebody to be the adult and have the courage to do the next thing. Yeah. I guess that's what I was afraid of. I know. I'm sorry. I hate it for you too.
It's just, you know, loads of funny things. It's like, no matter how bad somebody hurts, you just don't stop them. No, of course not. Of course not. I guess that's what I'm holding on to. And if she was ready to fight and go to war for this marriage, dude, I'd be a thousand percent. Y'all can save this marriage. Yeah. No question about it. I have no question about it. But everything starts with, I'm going to tell you the truth. And she can't do that, and she won't do that.
And now we're at a place where she is teaching her son that we lie. She's teaching her son that multiple men stay in this home. And by the way, do Joe, just so you can see this from an outsider's perspective, because I'm just a random dude in Nashville, Tennessee. Yes, sir. She's trying to send you a message. She's leaving trash in the trash. She's leaving rollers in the house.
Yeah. She's not even trying. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Like there's a lot of what I would call infidelity gymnastics that people go through. Lots. Yeah. She's almost rubbing your nose in it or less like less aggressively like letting you know this is happening. Tada. Right.
Yeah. And maybe you tell her, I want you out of this house, but in the next week, she's got to move out. Yeah. Y'all figure that stuff out, but y'all, but I mean, you can't continue to allow another man to come spend eight hours a day in your home with your wife and your child. Yeah. And that can be that you leave. Mm hmm.
And then serve the papers or sit with an attorney or y'all go to mediation, whatever happens in Connecticut, every state's different. Or she packs up and goes, although I think your fear is she's just going to go 20 yards next door. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, you know, it's what's going to happen. And she told them that, you know, she wants nothing to do with him. But you know, yesterday he was there outside and she took my son and her
herself and my son and the dog for a walk. And when she went down the street, you know, he was staring at her and when he got back, he, you know, he said, Hey, how are you guys? And she's like, you know, good, how are you? And that's something little, but it's the fact that we're going through all this. And it's like, I, you know, my expectation is no, no contact. And I shouldn't even have to say that if you're willing to work with somebody. And her defense was, well, we're neighbors. You know, what am I going to say? We're going to say hi. And I'm like, okay, but you're our marriage is on the line.
Yeah. Right. Has she shown you the messages that she sent him that said, we are never going to be in contact ever again. Stop contacting me. Effective immediately. So apparently this is all verbal on the back deck. Exactly. I want it in writing.
Yeah. I want it in writing so that when you file a harassment complaint that this man won't leave your wife alone. Yeah. He keeps coming over to the property line and staring at her. He keeps yelling at her, trying to say hello to her when she's trying to walk your child and the dog on all in writing. I used to tell my college students, you have to put in writing through text message or email. Do not contact me anymore. Period. And once that line is crossed, then it's harassment. Now we can get involved.
Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. All right. But I don't think she's going to do it, Joe. I might have to agree with you there. Okay. So let's start. Let's get a group of people in your corner, whether that's a couple of close friends, whether that's a minister from your local church, whether that is an attorney that you're going to sit with, a mental health professional, everybody.
Maybe the path right now is to go sit with an attorney because you've got a lot to untangle whether with the bankruptcy with child with Home equity. I don't know how any of that stuff works in Connecticut So having some but a professional just to know what you're looking at here and the whole time I want you to spend some time with yourself in a local coffee shop or on your breaks at work or in the morning when your son is taking a nap and
figuring out what is a path back to trust so that you can lay it down in front of her and say, this is what this looks like. We sell the house and we rent because I would rather be married to you and rebuild this marriage than own a house. Or you have to sever all contact forever and partridge into pear tree on and on and on and on. And I'm going to put cameras up in the house. And if this man steps on my property, I'm going to have him a no trespass.
I don't want his plates in our home, and I don't want his paint rollers in our home, and I don't want his love and affection for you and our kid in our home. It's our home, not his. But Joe, you gotta stop. I mean, I know you hear it, and it's hard to even wrap your head around, oh, this is it. My wife is choosing him. She's choosing dishonesty. She's choosing lying, and I'm so sorry. Call back anytime, brother.
You got a long hard road ahead of you and listen to me. Just because it's painful doesn't mean it's not right. Whichever path you take. This show is sponsored by Better Health.
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Hey, John, I've got a question for you. Bring it on, dude. So I've been married for about 14, almost 15 years now. And my wife and I have a great relationship, great marriage. We've got four kids. She's my soulmate. You know, we communicate well. Everything is going great. We love each other.
I'm actually falling in love with her more this year and we're more intimate now that we ever have been in life. Bro, you're setting this one up, man. You're like making the shoe really high before you drop it. Yes, I am. So here's the problem. What's the other shoe? Drop it. I am not sexually attracted to my wife. Okay. And we have sex about two or three times a week, but.
I have to fantasize about other people and other situations in order to remain aroused and to perform for her. And I don't like it. I don't want to do this. I wish I could be aroused by her and have a more intimate and fulfilling sex life with her, but it's just not happening. Okay. What can I do about that?
So I feel like the preamble, all the stuff you told me up until this isn't true. Because she doesn't know this. And you told me you're more intimately, you've ever been, you're more in love, you're more communicative, you'll talk about everything, but she doesn't know you're not attracted to her.
Well, she does now. She just found out a couple days ago. How did she find out? Were you posting online? How did she find out? I broke down and confessed her. I told her, look, I have a hard time performing for you and I have to fantasize in order to do it. Why do you consider sex a performance? So that's what she asked. I don't know. I feel like I have to
I have to be the one that initiates. I have to be the one that pulls the whole thing off or else it's just not going to happen. And that leads me to this sense of, bro, like, I don't know what kind of, like, and I'm, I would hug you if you were sitting here. Okay. So I want you to hear me say that. Okay. You are facing a challenge that bajillions of people, men and women face in their relationships, but often it's men.
and it has little to nothing to do with sexual attraction, has to do with feeling alive in your own home and you don't. And so everything has to be a theater performance and it has to, I've got to get my heart rate racing again and I have to concoct this adventure. And right now I'm trusting you that it's staying in your head, but it will be out of your head shortly. You'll be in somebody else's bed.
because it's that quiet life of desperation. And so as good as you think things are, man, I feel like you're almost having to tell yourself that because you're drowning. You're not even drowning, you're suffocating in your own home. Is that fair? Am I crazy? You might have a point in some regards. I've been working on a lot of that stuff about bringing my heart back to life
finding out what it is that makes me feel alive. What is it? Honestly, I'm not really sure. I like just hanging out around my friends. I like going on small adventures, but I'm not super extroverted either. So a lot of the stuff that people want to do just kind of intimidates me, I guess. That's where it is.
That's what the adventure is. You've created a story where I'm kind of introverted, so that's off the table. I'm kind of this, so that's off the table. And yet your body is starving for it. Forget your friends for a second. You and your wife, like, what does play look like? What does Eros and desire look like? How does she seduce you? She does. OK, that's the issue to be addressed.
How can I address that openly and directly and with compassion? Because if this whole thing is one side, then the whole thing is an event and she is just merely an actor on a stage. She's not with you and you just write the script and hand it to her. In fact, you don't even hand her the script anymore. She just stays. She's just there.
She's not participating in this thing. Well, we have talked about some of that where I've told her, you know, I wish she could engage more and initiate more and participate more. And she doesn't really know what to say or know what to do. And I've tried to direct her and then she likes, she'll say, OK, but then she doesn't do anything. And that's that has to be addressed.
Because in many ways you've said, I need this from you. I need to feel loved. And right now in this season, here's what feeling love looks like. And she nods at you. And it goes, I don't care about that. And often, there's another side to that. Has she told you, here's what makes me feel loved and alive?
Yes, she has. And what does she say? Um, she just wants to know that, you know, that I'm thinking about her all day, like when I'm at work, she likes having text messages. Um, from me just telling her that I love her. Um, she likes it when I do, um, kind, gentlemanly things for her, like hold the door open for her and cook for her and things like that. And I do that stuff, but it's just, that's all performative. Yeah. What's beneath that?
She wants to feel special. She wants to feel like she is my one and only. But she's not. Because you have a whole cadre of actors that you rely on to fulfill these stories every night or two or three times a week. And you see how it just turns into this weird figure eight. It's this infinity loop that nobody can catch the other person. It's a strange dance.
where you are literally suffocating in your own home and the way you get little gulps of oxygen is to create fantasies and stories so that you can get this physical release. And she is not a participant, she's just being used for that release and she can feel it in her nervous system. And so then she begs for, will you tell me that I'm the only one with that I'm special?
And you outsource that to text messages and to doing the dishes and opening the door and putting your hand on the small of her back. All those are important things, but both of y'all are just trying to breathe through a straw. And unless you both sit down and say, all right, how long have you all been married? Almost 15 years. 15 years. Here's the top 10 fantasies of mine. You ready? Right? We're going to go down a rabbit hole.
And y'all both agreeing curiosity, not judgment. All right, tell me about that one. Why is that exciting? And being able to sit in that tension, in that space, and I know people are listening to this right now and being like, I could never tell the person I married to that I had this thought one time of, and I would tell you that's the problem.
because I know secrets kill relationships and people can feel when they're not connected. And the problem with a lack of connection with two married people who are sleeping together is it accentuates how far apart you are even though you're in the middle of one of the most intimate physical acts possible because you both know you're not there. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.
Have you, I've joked about this before and ended up not being a joke. Like it ended up with a life of its own and it ended up being hilarious. Have you tried the John Deloney erotic envelope system? Have you heard me talk about that?
I've yes, actually my wife and I just did that a few months ago. I don't remember if it was the exact same thing, but very similar. It was where we put 10 things we wanted to try. Yeah, like it was five things per person, I think. And we put on each on a different piece of paper and into a jar and we pulled one out each night and talked about it. Okay. And that was good. But.
She wrote down nothing having to do with sex whatsoever. And mine were like three out of five or sex related. But that's super instructive. What were her things? Like she wanted to study language together and let's like do a hobby together. And I don't remember what else, but we haven't written down upstairs. And were you curious about those?
Yeah, I feel like we could have had more conversation about the items that we pulled out, but I want to pick them back up. I certainly want to review them with her. Because that's going to tell her. That's her clumsy way of telling you what she's missing.
And you're three or four or five or six or 10 fantasies or sex acts, the things you want to participate, you all want to do together. That sense of aliveness and adventure and desire and thinking about it all day and her being a full participant, not for you, but with you. That's what you're missing.
And there's feels like there's not a bridge to get there. So you go through the motions, you do the acts, but you're in your head somewhere far away with, with different people. And learning a language is a way of, it's a, it's a, it's a, I'm trying to say it in a not cheesy way. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a knowing. Right. It's a coming together.
In a deeply intimate way, we have done a thing, we've been through a hard thing and now we have a way of communicating that no other people in our life do. Like the depth of intimacy in there in that request is so deep. But since it doesn't involve like, I don't know, a new outfit and some weird music and some like, like whatever, like whatever you got in your head, it's easy to bypass the sensuality to it.
And so here's what curiosity looks like. I'll just walk you through it. So I want to learn a language with you. That's when you pull out of the envelope and you're kind of bummed out because you were hoping it would be like some wild, like, all right, here's what we're going to do. And she pulls out one and it's some weird, like exotic sex act you've conjured up or you saw in some movie back when you were 19 years old, whatever. And here we are.
And so immediately there's a little bit of disappointment from both of you. All he wants is my body. I might even have a participant. All he wants is to just not be erotic and not whatever. Think about the tension building and the play building and the arrows that would be in your home if you both, and I'm making something up here. You both learn Spanish. And then you went on a date in Spanish.
And you both were people like, you were both from Spain and you went to some, you should say like this thing could end in this wild romantic night. But it's about getting the layer beneath the layer beneath the layer. You know what I'm saying here? Like, it might sound like a lunatic. No, I get it. I totally understand. It makes sense. Yeah.
I also know that this can be incredibly terrifying and very lonely. And I hate that for you. Yeah, well, some of the things that you mentioned are great. And I have talked about some of this stuff with her. And it seems like, I mean, again, like the stuff I bring up, she's not interested in it. And the stuff that she brings up, I try, but then again, it just feels like it goes nowhere.
Is the interest in being a member? I don't want to be a cast member in that particular movie. Or is it? I don't want to have that adventure with you. It's I'm not interested in sharing. I'm not interested in like that particular roller coaster.
I'm honestly not sure. I think that's the question. Because my guess is, there are some things that people say, yeah, I'm just not comfortable with that, or that hurts, or I don't feel good, like that's part of it. And that's just about open dialogue and talking back and forth. But often, if there is a pattern of performance, a pattern of I am
I'm just doing this for you, but I'm not doing this with you. Then just another layer, another outfit, another whatever. Another fantasy to layer on top of that. I'm not really interested in that. But I don't want to be an actor in your movie. But if you'll let me go write a script with you, I'll be in for that.
That's good. Okay. And so the layer beneath it is, I feel loved when you've been thinking about me all day. And I feel loved when I know that you can't keep your hands off me. And so what world would we have to create where that was possible?
And her say in using with her, this sounds like one of the most valuable things she values with you is your time. Yeah. And so what does that look like? But I feel like there's a lot of whack-a-mole intimacy up on top of the surface here and there's just lower layers. What's your chief fear in this marriage?
Now, I guess it would be that she just wouldn't want to. She would show no interest in getting to know me or not care about wanting to enter my world or know what's really going on in my mind or. Okay. Have you said those things? Have I said those things to her? Yeah. Yes, I have. She just said, you're right. I don't want to know you.
She admitted to having those feelings in the past in the early years for marriage. Sorry. What feelings? I don't even want to know him. Yeah. Feelings like she just is married to me because I'm the breadwinner and she doesn't really want to get to know me on a deeper level. And that's the way we've got through our first seven or eight years of marriage.
You know, I almost left the family. I almost got a divorce back then, but things are different now. We've worked through a lot of our issues and it's a lot better now than it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago. But I'm just afraid that that's going to come back. Is there is that possible? I don't know. Is it probable? I don't know.
I can see, I can see how it could be, how it could happen. Yeah. But do you also see how you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy? Not exactly. Things were bad seven or eight years ago. No question. Me of a woman telling you, like, I really didn't care about you. You were a safe bet. And I needed a warm bed to sleep in. And so.
I was willing to high five you a couple of times a week. I didn't really care about you. And you felt that every second of your life, seven or eight years ago. And did you, did you have somebody on deck during that time? Do you have a coworker that made you laugh or somebody that you texted back and forth with that you thought, man, this would be my off ramp. Not really. No. Okay. So you just were all alone in your misery.
Yeah, that was pretty lonely. Okay. So your body put a GPS pin in that. And now you hedge. You don't tell the full truth, the whole truth to nothing but the truth. Because that would have gotten you burned seven or eight years ago. And what it's hard to realize is
The house is on fire right now. And so you're not going to tell her everything. She's just going to continue to you're going to live in your head and you're going to act it out in real life. And she's just going to put up with it and you're going to find yourself back in that same pattern of she will participate a couple of days a week because it keeps you happy and it keeps the money depositing in the direct deposit.
And as much as you're in your head during those times, she's for sure in her head thinking about other things, right? Like bills or laundry or whatever else, but not what you wish she was thinking about. And it just creates what you all have already had. And that's different than sitting down and saying, I want us to build something together. And giving her the opportunity to say, I'm not doing that. Because you've got to deal with that issue.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And I know it's terrifying. Do you think she's going to, like, be out or that she's going to force you to say, OK, then I don't want to be a part of this? No, divorce is not on the table. There's no chance of us separating. OK, here's what's beautiful about what you just said. There's no chance this ends. Zero. And so now all you have to choose is one or the other.
Do we want a home of arrows and desire and playfulness and fun and connection? Or do we want a house of loneliness and performance and a descending misery? Because we're not going to leave. And one of those seems infinitely more fun than the other. And one of those are both the playful, fun,
Life's pretty hard. Let's just have as much fun as we can in this deal. Means we're not going to have sex all the time. And it means not every night of sex is going to be the Super Bowl. There is just going to be boring married sex. Sometimes that's great. It's awesome. And there's going to be what one woman told me. It feels like a warm hug. It's just connective. It's not adventurous. It's not. It's not that. It's just gentle connection.
Good time. And then there's adventure nights, and there's fun times. And there's also, hey, what does intimacy look like outside of the bedroom? Let's sign up for a dance class together. Oh, you want to do things with me? I'm going to make you a priority in my life. We're going to co-create. We're going to co-write this script. You're not just going to be an actor three nights a week.
in my head. And that's just a totally different life. And, bro, just so you know, you're not alone, man. This is the state of modern marriage. Two people expecting the other person to fulfill them instead of sitting down and saying, dude, let's make something amazing together. And it's not going to be amazing all the time.
but let's build towards something awesome, where we laugh a lot and play a lot. And I'm gonna concede here and I'm gonna compromise here. And I don't even know why you're kind of into this because it's kind of weird, but I'm gonna play along so I feel comfortable and I feel safe. And that's too weird or that's super painful. All right, let's have that conversation, let's just have it. And sometimes the eros is in the conversation. Tell me more about that.
What is it that's exciting about that? Where did that even pop into your head? That can become some of the most intimate conversations in learning and you learn about your fears, learn about what you're into, learn about what scares you, learns about what really makes your hearts start beating. Man, what feels a little deviant? All those things. Man, you had to share that with somebody, especially anchored in, we're never leaving each other, ever. God, that sounds amazing.
But you both got to be willing to go for it. Go all in. I'm grateful for your brother. Thanks for being open and forgive me a buzz. I think the conversation that I would start with if I was in your situation and take my wife out and say, hey, I realized over the last four or five years our marriage has gotten good. It's gotten real good. But I've made you an actor.
in my world, in my movie. I wanna write something with you. Let's do this together. Let's go build something amazing. And, in so doing, I want you to tell me, beneath, let's do a class together, beneath, I want you to wear a nurse's outfit together, whatever the thing is, beneath all that. Like, what kind of world do we wanna create? What does that look like? Thank you so much for the call, my brother. I'm grateful for you.
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All right, if you're still with us on New Year's Day as the three highlights from this past year, the shows that performed pretty well on the internet. Kelly, what's one of your goals? What's one of your goals for 2025?
So I'm, I've kind of, the past last half of 2024 really started taking a hold of my health. So you know, early in 2024, I started working out and consistently five to six days a week, every morning, five a.m., working out. And then I've started making some other changes. And I'm down about 10 pounds. So my goal is to be, to continue on that, to lose a little bit more, just to feel better about myself. So that's probably my biggest goal is,
You know, when you have a special needs child and all that we focus on everybody else, but to kind of focus on getting myself at a better place. That's pretty awesome. Congratulations. There's some specifics, but that's the gist. Let's go into the deep specific. No, let's not. What about you? I'm sure it's to talk nicer to me and to be nicer. We can just agree to disagree on that one. All right. Thank you. Pretty much one of the lottery on this one.
I've got several. I'm trying to think in what order I want to talk to them about. I guess the big one is, yeah, kind of like you mentioned, the last two or three years has really been kind of a circle in the airport in an airplane on. I try things out a lot and I do a lot of 30 day challenges and equals one experiments and I try this gadget and this program or whatever.
And I think 2025 for me is a season of flipping a switch, which is making some peace with some things to really put into practice some of the things my buddy, Lane Norton says, and Sal says about, like, and Jordan says, like, am I going to hate myself? I'm just done with that season of my life. First half, right? I'm just kind of done of not liking Deloni. And I'm going to make some peace with some things and really settle into
Now, this is just how we do life. We move and we treat each other right and we take care of things and we don't buy stupid stuff and we don't manline red number 30 and blue number 40 or whatever those things are. In the form of some sort of gummy something? Some sort. Some sort. I will tell you the flip and the switch in changing my mindset on the I deserve this time. This 5 a.m. super early in the morning. This is about me because I deserve it.
It took a few months, at the beginning of the year, just me like, I hate everything about this. But now it is such a joy to take that time because I do deserve it. And that mindset, and that's Sal, 100% right there, that has been such a game changer for me. And I really advise everyone to try that. Yeah, and the idea even this morning, today's a pack, pack, pack today. And I won't get done working, I won't walk off stage, I've got an event tonight, I won't walk off stage until late tonight. The thought of,
What can I do right now like to feel awesome today? Not a thing I have to do, but what's the thing that I can do to feel awesome today?
And that's just such a shift, right? Like, I just want to feel great. And so I'm going to lift, and I'm going to eat something healthy, and I'm going to go outside. Like, just some little things like that that, again, it's just flipping a switch. Like Sal's the one who says, the man who loves a journey will always walk further than the man who's got a fixed destination. And I love that idea, right? So that's it for me. I'm just, I'm done.
I'm done just hating on Deloni. So I'm kind of finished with that. And so now it's time to- I'll get there eventually. It's a long slow down. That's the 20. We got 2026- It's the journey. The journey. It's the journey. Hey, love you guys. Seriously, write down. Write it down. Who you want to be this year?
And then keep listening to our show, keep passing the show around, hit the subscribe button. Thank you for being with us and making 2024 a wild memorable year and just hang on your hats because 2025 is about to set off. Love you guys. Bye.
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