Ghost & Clover 3 – SHOT Show 2025 Day Two from the Bersa Booth
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January 31, 2025
TLDR: A replay of Ghost & Clover LIVE from SHOT Show 2025 by Ghost Tactical Productions and CloverTac Productions.

Welcome to the summary of the latest podcast episode of Ghost & Clover, where we dive into the thrilling discussions held on the second day of SHOT Show 2025 LIVE from the Bersa booth. This episode features engaging conversations with various guests, highlighting topics from innovative firearms to mental health advocacy within the gun community.
Key Highlights
SHOT Show 2025 Overview
- Date and Location: The episode is broadcasted on January 22, 2025 from the Bersa booth during SHOT Show 2025.
- Hosts: The hosts are Trey and Clover, who introduce special guests throughout the episode, including Ron Holmes from Riker USA and Jake Wiscursion from Walk The Talk America.
Guests and Discussions
Ron Holmes (Riker USA)
- Background: Former Marine Special Operations member and founder of Riker USA, known for his development of innovative shooting accessories aimed at enhancing shooter comfort and performance.
- Discussion on the Riker Method:
- Focus on utilizing large muscle groups for shooting to reduce fatigue and recoil.
- The Riker Grip improves handling, allowing for more stability and less strain during use.
- Riker Sling: Advocated as a retention system that also aids accuracy and stability during shooting.
Jake Wiscursion (Walk The Talk America)
- Advocacy: Focuses on bridging the gap between mental health and firearms.
- Survey on Gun Owners and Mental Health:
- They aim to collect data about the attitudes of gun owners towards mental health and counseling to combat stigma and promote access to care.
- Encouragement for gun owners to take part in surveys that can help influence policy and improve community understanding.
Kids to Kings Program
- Inspiring the Next Generation: Devin Kiss the King shares insights about the Kids to Kings initiative, which combines firearm education with responsible ownership and personal development for youth.
- Curriculum: Focuses on treating gun usage as a martial art, emphasizing respect, knowledge, and responsible behavior.
- Sponsorship: Highlighted support from various organizations, including Ruger and USCCA.
Product Development Insights
- Innovations from Riker USA: Discussion on the development of various firearms accessories that help users with disabilities or specific needs, showcasing the brand's commitment to inclusivity.
- HRT Tactical Updates: Changes in product lines to ensure lighter, more efficient gear for tactical applications while maintaining high-quality standards.
Takeaways
- Addressing Mental Health: Highlighting the importance of mental health resources and open conversations in the gun community to help de-stigmatize seeking help.
- Innovative Practices: The Riker Method focuses on practical shooting techniques that enhance performance and comfort, demonstrating the continuous evolution of firearm accessory design.
- Community Engagement: Initiatives like Kids to Kings exemplify how education and mentorship can lead to responsible future gun owners.
Conclusion
This podcast episode encapsulates the vibrant discussions and significant developments in the firearms industry during SHOT Show 2025. It highlights not only product innovations but also the critical dialogues around mental health and youth education in firearms handling. Tune in daily from the Bersa booth for more updates and insights!
Stay tuned for more compelling content from Ghost & Clover as they continue to bring you engaging conversations from the firearm industry.
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Welcome guys to another edition of the Ghost and Clover podcast live from Shot Show 2025. We are here at the Bursa booth real quick before we get started. A quick shout out to our partners with this Bursa and Walk the Talk America. We will be going live every day at four o'clock local, which is like six o'clock central, seven o'clock Eastern today and tomorrow. So be checking out. We got some great guests today before we get going.
My cohort, my partner, trying to raise my money operation. My name is Trey. What's up, homie? I'm Ron Jeremy, Elvis Pepperbush. We'll go Elvis Pepperbush today. I'm Thomas. You're tight. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. That was important. So, yes. We can go. Day two.
It is day two. It is day two of Shot Show 2025. It's Wednesday for the record January 22nd, 2025. We're fortunate to have some great friends of ours, both professionally and personally. We have Ron Holmes from Riker USA and Jake Wiscursion from Walk the Talk America. What's going on guys?
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Savage right here. What's up, brother? Rod Holmes from Riker USA. We're going to go into his background. 20 year Marsok Marine. Been there, done it all. Founder of Riker USA now working also with a partnership with Mitchell defense. And once you guys go into that, tell your story real quick about the Riker USA story a little bit, whatever. And then talk, let's talk about Mitchell defense as well. Yeah, so.
I retired from Marine Special Operations 2010, as I don't know, and prior to that, I had multiple surgeries, leaving me with rubber bands and bow shoulder screws and fishing line in each elbow, and I got into height loss. When I went into government service after retirement, all the shooting we were doing, I found that the support arm would painfully go numb on me.
And, you know, I say my superpowers that I'm left-handed, you know, growing up in the like special operations arena in the 90s, you know, we didn't have this, right? And until those towers fell, there was no tactical industry. And pretty much how you got gear back then was from catalog or like, you made it. You made it. And the stuff that we were issued came set up a lot of the same sites was site specific for a right-handed shooter.
So being left-handed, super innovative and creative, I always had to undo, redo, and make my own stuff. And that's kind of what led to it. I had a me problem. I wanted to shoot pain-free. Now, we started out one product. We got like 14 now. We've got our flagship product. We've got our sling. We redesigned our sling with the Tier 1 Special Operations units. And they now run our sling. So that, and then along the way, through this industry,
at another at the NRA show Mitch with defense and I were right across from each other We start talking and then you know, he's reconforming and then truly after that I was like that was May June I was putting on a big three-day training event and content driven event he came down sponsored it attended and We have like 15 people attend seven people bought rifles that day and like that was pretty much and he was just like yeah, hey, man
whatever it is I mean anything to do not mean and so now we pretty much from that moment we've been joined at the hip and now we're like we've merged our brands and it's really awesome because like I again I'll shoot any gun but
These guns are awesome. And the cool thing about Nathan is that he's from oil industry, you know, oil for the background beyond his reconnaissance performance stuff. But he brings a lot of the technology and things he learned in the oil field. He brought him into developing rifles. And he brought a lot of that technology with the tolerances and understanding strength. Smart guy.
And it's just really worked out really well. So what we've done now is, and we're going to be doing it a lot more this year, but we do the Mitchell Riker.
you know, combination forces. So what we're doing with this is when we're going to put it out there, we're going to blast and we've already done a couple. We're going to do the Metro Defense Record USA Carbine Corps. We're going to do the transition course. But the thing that we're doing a little bit different is when you sign up for this course, you could bring your own rifle and that's fine. But the concept is we want you to come out.
and use our stuff. So you're going to get to when you sign up, you get to sign up for the rat dog, which is the nine mill line or the dock, which is the 556 line. And we'll have the guns will be set up, they'll be easy out and they'll have all the riker accessories on them. So not only you get to run Mitchell defense rifle, but you get rifles, but you get to run and learn the riker method of shooting.
And that's something I want to bring into because you've created this thing out of personal necessity, but it's turned into a thing. And you guys know from my channel, you guys are probably very familiar with his products, his sling, his grips are fantastic. But kind of going real quick on the instructional side, what is the Riker Method?
So, essentially, the Riker method is using the Riker grip and the Riker sling and understanding the concept, you know, we biomechanically sort out what we've all been doing incorrect for hundreds of years and not shooting shoulder-fire rifles, you know, so instead of reaching across your body, thumb over, you know, wedge, everything so I'm reaching across.
Just by putting your hand off to the side, you open up that shoulder, but you no longer are holding the weight of the gun up, isolating individual muscle group. You're using large muscle groups, your back and your shoulders. This is what eliminates recoil. This is what eliminates fatigue. Now, I like to say this, do you shake hands like this? Do you shake hands like this? Shake hands like this? Now, I'm holding my rifle this way, take that rifle away. Now, I'm in the same exact position as when I fire a pistol.
So I have commonality of movement, rifle pistol shock, and it doesn't matter. I'm doing one less thing by doing the same thing across the board, right? So that you conjunction with our sling. I think most people, the average person sees a sling as a way to hold it on their bodies. They don't have to hold on to it. They don't quite understand how to utilize a sling for stabilization for anything else.
But the average person doesn't know that the sling is part of the record. Yeah, absolutely. The record sling is a retention system. And all this is designed is to improve lethality for our warfighters, but even for the home defense and
more, you know, we can actually validate with the 96 wrong course of fire, speed, accuracy and stability are all improved. Now, the Riker sling is designed to be run again, growing up on MP5 behind the pistol grip and behind the Riker grip. So you have a nice narrow base. When you have it tight to your body, it comes, it sits at a nice angle, a biosecting angle with the barrel at your hip. So when you bend down, the muscle automatically goes out to the side. So in the capacity for law enforcement, the muscles not going into the back of somebody's head,
The cops aren't getting called onto the carpet. They use excessive force, intimidation with a weapon, this kind of thing, right?
Also, more importantly, your muscles not going into the dirt and buttstock into your face. So it goes out to the side naturally. Now, your traditional nylon sling, when you're sitting there, you want to come up on an engagement. You pop it off. You come on up. If you want to transition to pistol, you've got to get this thing behind you. But it's hanging behind you like an anchor, right? Not with ours. You put it on. You set it nice and tight so you have good and automatic weapons retention.
Because of the elastic in the body of the sling, you pop out and you push out and then you let it come back and sit. Now the sling, you want the sling will be taught. Not super tight, but taught. And what it does is it creates a
a artificial stabilization platform. Well, yeah. And now the rifle is pulling back into your shoulder and it's pushing in with the Riker grip. It's pushing into the media portion of your palm, which takes even more stress off of your firing hand. Now you have an even better dry stop. But where we've really noticed a good benefit for the Riker method with this sling,
shooting distance, like it really just locks you and just really gets you a nice hider group on that. And then when you want to transition, you just drop and come back up and the rifle stays tight and now you're with your with your secondary. And it sounds something as simple as this, but keeping it tight in that workspace. Sometimes you need to drop that weapon to pick up somebody in that, you know,
work open whatever you got you gotta be able to use your hands and not have to worry about the the rifle banging around everywhere now it's in your workspace it's tight and all it is from there it's just real simple get back up so that's the the ideas and all I've got two or three of the slings are amazing yeah I really are we and we've had a lot of a lot of
tactical games athletes they run this thing the thing that they like about it the best is they can tighten it throw it on their back care that sandbag crawl ops goes run up to the shooting platform pull it right back around boom boom boom do the engagement drop this thing and move on absolutely I've been we've been a sponsor in a couple of the games and I have seen I've seen a dude carrying like that 150 pound sandbag
dragging an easy $5,000 rifle because his sling broke. And he was so tasked. He was like, I'm not dropping. If I drop this bag, I'm not picking it back up. And the dude was dragging his rifle because of sling broke. Yeah, right.
Yeah, so it's it's you know, our slings calm there everything there. It's it's there are manufacturers of veteran known manufacturer and they come cutie mounts and They're super light and they're just like they add value to you know to law enforcement to military but just to anybody that you know has it has it has it here's everything with the Riker system the Riker method
our grips and our slings go on anything you could s cars, AKs, ARs, PCCs, he the caliber for all our suppress you rec the benefit instantly. Yeah, we'r in a minute, let you tell wh
A lot. A lot. Yeah. You almost as you almost received the Purple Heart, I understand. Yeah. We'll injury. Yeah. We'll injury. Yeah. So what is that? What is that this year shot with people cutting their fingers on? No, no. I don't know. I'll pack these sticks or something. I couldn't close my own knife. That sounds like the weakest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm just saying, you think you're a great therapist. Yeah. Right.
So, you know, tell everybody that, you know, may not be aware, obviously a little bit, you know, quickly where you came from, but more importantly, what's going on now, what's new.
I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist here in Nevada. I do live up north in Reno. Sparks actually, I don't really claim Las Vegas, you know, fifth generation of Madden. I think I'd claim the whole state, but I'm very northern-centric. But yeah, I own an operator company called Zephyr Wellness. We do outpatient counseling and we've had point employees. And I got into walk-to-talk America because as a concealed carrying firearm of a practitioner,
I met Mike and realized there was work to be done in this space because I realized that I was subject to a lot of the condescension that came from the clinical community regarding firearms and then by extension firearms owners. It's like, well, you know, I don't really care what my peer colleagues think of me. I care more about the people I'm treating. And if we're missing a large swath of America because they are afraid to come into
to counseling because they don't want their rights taken away for whatever reason. I don't have a bat phone to dot gov. That's not how this works. But they didn't come in and then things get worse. And then we end up with, you know, farm suicides or divorces or kids being bullied that don't have to be it. And, you know, I want to welcome them in. So we try to demystify what counseling is for farm owners. We try to train practitioners on how to be more culturally sensitive to the gun community. Right. Now this year it's shot with you guys, you know, with a walk to talk America.
Man, you really kind of beefed up the troops, so to speak. And it's kind of a divide and conquer. You got no booth, no tight ground, no tight ground to one location. Yes. But able to move freely. And hopefully you've gotten more sub done because of it. Yeah, it's the second year we've gone without a booth. And it's actually been to our advantage because we can be more nimble. And we've got DB Palmer, who's a, you know, one of our board members, advisory board members, he's a clinician in Oregon. We've got Eddie Davenport, who actually represents Peter Solley.
and he's a competition coordinator now he's a social worker in North Carolina big firearms guys and good good good clinicians so we're trying to make as many contacts possible to spring the word out to everybody that we do exist and we're we're trying to make this mission
broader and more accessible, trying to build out our to a friendly provider directory, for example. But the big thing that we really want people to participate in, y'all as gun owners, I really invite you to go to our website and take the survey. We have a gun owner survey where we're trying to collect data on the attitudes of firearms owners about what they think regarding mental health broadly. So it is not necessarily anonymous. You do have to enter an email address to take service who don't have replicated survey results. But
The data we're trying to collect are running in the opposite direction of what we usually see from researchers in the quote-unquote gun violence prevention realm. They basically say, you know, the only way to stop gun deaths is to provide restrictions either through policy or legislation or by bad advice like keeping your ammo separate from the firearm at all times or just don't have them in the home if you have kids, that kind of stuff. So we want to get accurate information on what people believe. And our hypothesis is people are staying away from care
not just in mental health, but health care broadly, because of the policies that are out, the red flag laws, the background check laws, all that stuff. And we want to know if we're right, if it comes back that 30, 40% of gun owners would rather not go into Jake's office because they think that Jake is going to tabble on him for some reason. They're going to lose it if they're, you know, God, give him rights. Then we want to know that to be able to push back on some of the narratives popular in legislative circles and policy circles that say that's not true or whatever.
We want to be able to create this and then hopefully from there we get adequate funding to run a proper survey because a self-selecting survey on the internet is not necessarily scientifically valid, but it is a starting point. Right now we just have no information on that other than what we hear in the hallways and through our social media accounts. Well and also you know the larger the participation even though it's not scientifically valid. The larger the participation the
Well, be the word there. The more legitimate it looks. I guess the more legitimate. Yeah. It looks the sample size being larger. You're going to be able to extract more data. I guess 500 points of data maybe from that.
Yeah, we, we actually, the 2023 survey revealed some surprising stuff, but still like the pie chart of distribution between those who don't have a problem with red flag and those who do was a little more split than we thought. So people who would avoid care because of policies like that was about in the 23 to 25% realm, we thought, well, that's a little lower than we expected, but that's still
a quarter of gun owners talking a hundred and some million gunners in America. That's 25 million people who just won't get care and that's not good.
Yeah, definitely. Now, is any of that data being used? I know, you know, you go to these different conferences and other things. You know, obviously, Mike does that as well. You know, not necessarily in speeches or classes or panels, but maybe just in private conversations or something else. Some of that data being used at this point. It is. And we get to say we conducted our own survey, right? But we can run a survey.
And we have evidence that suggests the opposite of what people think. And you know, Mike's had great success talking to some of these researchers who simply had blind spots and didn't realize it. So he'll say, you know, did you ever consider that these extremist protection orders are actually killing people? It's like, what are you talking about? Well, let me
educate, you know, I'll tell you what we're finding. And they go, wow, we did not actually consider the unintended negative consequence of this policy decision that we thought was a great stopgap between arrest and hospitalization. We'll just take your property. It's like, no, no, no, that's actually keeping people away from care. We don't want that. And so, yes, we are making inroads. And it's good civil conversations with
I don't like minded people when I say like minded. I mean, we all want unnecessary deaths to stop and we want this definitely an unnecessary gun desk to stop because we're in the gun community. That's where we center. You know, my famous for saying if I sold rope for a living, I'd probably be targeting rope deaths, but we're not a part of the gun. Exactly. Yeah. We got, I don't know, 34 minutes in the segment. Easy. Yeah.
Yeah, we have to run a question. This is what this is about. One of those like, you know, ignorant questions that we get asked this all the time about our products like, well, why hasn't anybody done this before? It seems like a no-brainer with your slings and your training tactics. Why did it take until now you in the 2010s, 2020s to come up with a seemingly no-brainer system? You know,
Wayne, it's really cool because I'm an inventor. I have a patent, so I'm legitimately an inventor. And that's cool. I'm really proud of that. But we sat down with our patent writer. And the whole process, the things I've learned in this journey are amazing. And he came back, I think it took about six months, and he came back, and he goes, OK, guys, open up the books. And he says, you guys are onto something, or you're onto nothing.
And I'm like, fantastic. Either way, I don't know what that means. I think, right? And he's just like, look, he goes, I have Doug, and he goes, there is nothing. He's like either nobody has ever thought of this.
or nobody somebody has thought of it and they've never gone forward with it. But there was nothing out there for the side of the rail for purposes of hand placements. So our patent owns the side of the gun for hand placement. And here's the thing though, I was running my
Like, you call them prototypes. They were just called my grip. It had no name. I was running them and making them for guys that I worked with. I was running for two years before we even started it. And it was just one of my partners, we were doing some stuff one day and he goes, what is this? I guess thing I made so I can shoot pain free. He goes, he sat there and he's looking and he's just like, yo man, we should sell those. And I was like, whatever. And like, here we are. So, you know, it's just, again, it goes back to that, you know,
I invented me and two other guys invented a product years ago, and it became a piece of year that I was actually issued three years later.
upsetting, but 25 year old force reconnaissance Marine did not know anything about patents, intellectual property and stuff like that. I had a need. We made this hook for our shot, our breacher shotgun so we could fast up everything stayed in there. We worked with some team guys, when I was in Okinawa, these guys, that's awesome. Could you make us one? We made some, they took some pictures, fast forward.
We do some work with these guys, the East Coast guys and James River and these guys are fast to open down. Got this little thing and I'm like, that's your hook. I go look at it and I'm like, hey, where'd you get that? And I'm like, oh man, our boy is from the West Coast and some pictures to the guy at London Bridge. And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, and I'm like, and I don't know what I look like. The guy's like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, that's fine. And I was like, that's the one they took pictures of. And he just is like,
I'm sorry, bro. And I was like, so I didn't know about these things. And it's just like, but again, not really my mindset of like what I wanted to do. So I don't know why. And I've had people say like, man, this is like the folding chair. Why did not think of it? Yeah. You know, but it's here now. And you know, we've got the secondary effects on it. Like guys with pre-existing injuries, but kids, our first two sponsor shooters were young ladies, 10 years old and 12 year old ladies. Shout out to Alpha Addie and pineapple shooter.
And, you know, so we found like smaller frame men and women law enforcement body armor, everything like this. I've been able to qualify with the carby. Put the grip on, you can pull it back far enough. Now you're giving them the ability to do something. Then you receive testimonials from people like, hey, man, I had a lung transplant. I've been able to shoulder a rifle on retired cop, competitive shooter. I can't do it. Your grip has given me that back. That's cool.
Like you can't write that in a business plan, right? But yeah, so that's I don't I mean it's here now. Yeah, it's a it's a good question with no with no good answer. How is it?
It reminds me of a conversation that was at just the other night. Somebody had said, you know, wonder who the first person was to look at a lobster or crab. Yeah, it's delicious. I mean, you mentioned that with lemon and butter, like, can you imagine how good that is? But one day somebody did it, right? And arrest is history. And so that's what you did, right? You just made history, basically.
And there's a bunch of other things in there. And again, I know I'm not the only one that thinks of things like years ago before I retired, I had sat down with a friend in industry and I drew out a backpack that you could pull over. And we sat there, we talked about like, dude, that's a great idea, right?
And then now that's a thing. Absolutely. And we talk and we're like, yeah, we missed the mark on that one. Yeah. I mean, I can certainly validate the product idea getting stolen by somebody else, whatever, you know, it's like, we do that here. We're constantly venting things. Then we see other organizations like repurposing them and rebranding them as their own. The instructor slides, for example,
You're going to teach mental health for an hour, and we're going to go about that. So we created an hour's worth of mental health stuff. And you threw it out the books. People are going to use our stuff. It's like, oh, cool. We're saving lives. That's fine. Attribution would be good. Whatever. You're good. No, I just didn't think. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard about your organization.
I also do amazing work. They're trying to get that I was on with Mike on a panel a couple of three years ago with the VA. And I talked about doing some stuff with that, but we're going to wrap this up. Sorry. But they're with the VA also. And the VA is trying to learn why vets
don't trust them with mental health and all that. So they're reaching beyond just gunners. It's vets and it's everywhere. It's amazing. Yeah, I've kind of cracked code when dealing with the VA. My healthy pet, I send one plate email. I don't get the response I want. I send a stern email. I don't get the response I want. And then I'm like, you know what? I don't want to see the chiropractor. I don't want to see the acupuncture anymore. Could you please send me
the top three opioids to my house. And because I know, at least I'll get those by tomorrow. Right. And then literally the next day, my referrals in and I get my appointments, right? Not, not, I don't want pills. I'm not that. I know it. This is where you have to get. Yeah. And I teach this other, I teach this other veterans and stuff like, yeah, for you, I think the big thing, one of the things I tell, like I run a summer camp also for kids, but the biggest thing when it comes to firearms and mental health is education.
And everybody thinks that they know something and you don't know something. And when you take something away from somebody, like you said, that's not the answer. That's not the answer. The answer is being finding a path in there to communicate with that person on their level. So I always tell people you need to be smarter than them. And who is them? That them is anybody who is just trying to take away your birth rights.
And the biggest thing is not even arm yourself with a gun, and arm yourself with a combative, you know, a physical skill. You need to arm yourself with education. Knowledge. Knowledge. Education over description. But the other thing on that is you have to have courage. If you're in a position and you're good and you're in the industry and you see your friend who's struggling.
lean in, step through that door and have the courage to lean in, lead them to faith and lead them to a path of victory through care and through love. And I mean, that's really what it boils down to. Absolutely. And now Jake's got to follow that. Yeah, we got to move on because we do have two more segments to this. And so I'm going to ask Jake, go ahead.
We're working folks find you find out more because I mean, these are short segments. We realize that. Yeah. And so we're going to encourage you. We're trying to wait for you to do your own research. These guys have social media posts. They have websites. They have places to learn about all the cool things you're doing. Jake, we'll let you go first. WTTA.org. Walk to the talkamerica.org. We are a 501c3. We do look
for donations. We have an auction coming up. If you are able to donate for the auction, we will absolutely take that. But Paul around the website, poke through some stuff. My emotional functioning videos are posted in there in a link in the instructor area and educate yourself. Like I want to say, like learn about your brain and what it's doing in response to the environment. What are these feelings that we have and they all have a purpose, right?
If you know well how to navigate them, you're not acting out of reflex or impulse, you can act out of logic and reason and take better control of what you choose to do. So, WTTA.org, please, please, please share the survey. It pops right up, says our 2025 survey is now open.
Please take that shirt around with your friends so we can gather as much today as we can. I love what Ron's doing with the next generation too, because now we're going to train people to hold a rifle with more accuracy instead of the cup. That's pretty rad.
And check out the Guns and Mental Health Podcast with my big podcast. It's phenomenal. Jake, Kevin, Mike, all those guys that are on there, phenomenal podcast. Ron, you've got a long list of stuff that you're doing. Is there a centralized HQ that people can kind of find to help all of the information that you're doing? No. Why would you want to do that? Sometimes I look like I know what I'm doing.
I'm starting to feel like a bag of marbles rolling down the hill. But yeah, honestly, the best way, go to Instagram, RYK, E-R-U-S-A, DME in there, and then I'll reach out to you. Or also, instructor one, spell out O-N-E, and DME at those two places, and then I can give you- We won't get into why, instructor one.
And I will give you guys info. RikerUSA.com. We can talk about the camp. We can talk about classes. You want to schedule classes with us and Mitchell Defense. Just get us up. We'll make it happen. Absolutely. We got coming up next. We have Versa and Rob Pincus with 2A0s. We'll be back in about five-ish minutes. Maybe also. Yeah, 30 seconds. Yeah. Thank you to Ron. Thank you to Jake. Go check out RikerUSA. Go check out Walk the Talk America. And we'll see you in a few minutes.
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In a world where mental health is often overlooked, one organization is leading the charge. Walk the Talk America, a force for change, breaking down stigmas and fostering conversations that matter. At Walk the Talk America, they believe in the power of dialogue to reshape the narrative surrounding mental health. Their mission is simple but profound. To bridge the gap between mental health and firearms, because they understand that the real change starts with understanding
empathy and open conversation. Tune into their groundbreaking podcast, Guns and Mental Health, where experts, advocates and survivors share their stories and insights. It's not just a podcast, it's a movement towards a more compassionate and informed society.
Join them as they organize events, workshops, and outreach programs to build a community that supports mental health without judgment. Join me in supporting Walk the Talk America and visit their website, walkthetalkamerica.org, to be part of the change.
Well, guys, we do invite you to go check out both ours and Clover's YouTube channels, ours is Ghost Tactical, where you can find all of our content over there, including our videos and our podcasts, and you can go check out Clover at Clover Tech. Obviously, you can check out all of his content and podcasts as well. We also invite you to check out our websites, ours is ghosttactical.us, where you'll be able to find everything that we're doing, including our swag store,
And Clover's is clovertack.com. Once again, find all of his projects, all of his swag, and all of that. More importantly guys, we do thank everyone for always supporting both myself and Clovertack, whether it's just by watching our stuff, or those that do spend their hard-earned money through YouTube channel memberships. We do truly appreciate you guys. You guys make this all worthwhile. We are currently getting ready for our next guest, so stand by for the stand by.
I'll just come in and do it. I got nothing to do Friday. Yeah, he doesn't. And we're back. And we're back. We're nothing new Friday. Leave it. Leave it up to Rob to talk so damn much at a run past the intermission. We are going to get the teaser post going. Well, you know what? You can do that while I kind of bring you in. This is a guy.
How do you explain Rob Pink is the someone that doesn't know? First off, camera whore. A man that never found the camera he didn't love. I wasn't even paying attention. He's never found the camera he didn't love. Nobody would ever marry me. What else would it be? I have not married a few women. A few? I am. There's a few women that are not married. You've got about 19 different things that are involved in. He wouldn't drink.
Yeah, that's pretty true. Even Oprah. You can drink bad whiskey with good friends. Well, sometimes that's what you got to do, right? Yeah. You're here. Obviously, the PD and the personal defense network, IC training, um, while to talk America board member, um,
here with Executive Director now of 2A0. You were heavily involved with the 2A March a couple of years ago in Washington. I did. Yeah, I was trying to do it. 2A rally. 2A rally. I mean, that was you. Golly, I'm missing. Go ahead. Donemaker's match. There you go. There's so many. There's so many things. Do the safety arms? Avidity arms. Avidity arms. You brought it. You brought it. Finally. Finally.
But now you've got two years ago. You guys talk to everybody. And some people only do one thing. Some will do four things. What do you want to talk about?
Yeah. Let's start with two A.O. Perfect. Two A.O. Yeah. Good. I just had a couple of our board members that are also here. I've had a great conversation with them. I'm going to see another board member at another gathering here in a little while. Two A.O. is an interesting thing. So I spent a long time, like six years, let's say six years ago. Something like six years ago, Ryan, the founder and president of two A.O. came to me. And I was doing a lot of different things, as I always do. I was very active.
in a few things that were relatively high profile. I was doing a lot of stuff where I was doing a lot of media stuff around every time there was some tragedy, you know, I get some news media and talking about that. We were very involved with trying to make the NRA better even before the big blow up in 2019.
A lot of the politics and the practice of application politics. Right now, I don't care if you introduce a bill to abolish the ATF. That's not really helping. It's distracting. It's annoying. I get it. It's fundraising. It's clickbait. It's voting. You're not really helping. We don't want the FBI in charge of all this stuff. And ATF has a bunch of other stuff it does. What we want is a reformed ATF. We want reform gun laws. We want remove gun laws. We want hearing protection act, for example. We want maybe I'll go as far as get rid of the NFA.
It's still a big wish, but at least it's practical and useful as opposed to abolish the ATF. So all that to say, my approach is not always the same approach you hear from the podium at the leaders of some of the other gun rights organizations. So Brian and his board came to me and said, we like what you do. We like the way you do it. And we really haven't done much with 2AOTO was sort of sitting there as this shell because its main focus was post Sandy Hook. And there was a lot of things going on at the time to get businesses that were
friendly to gun owners involved and make them part of the second amendment organization sort of like you know you had like guns not welcome in this business kind of things went up they wanted to do guns are welcome here and and gun owners are welcome here and that was a campaign that was running northern Virginia around the Washington DC area this was before there was any concealed carry opportunities in DC but in northern Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania this was took off and they had thousands and thousands and thousands of thousands of businesses that were excited about it but then it kind of died and it just kind of stalled out and they didn't get to a million businesses and then
The entity was there, but there wasn't much going on with it. So they said, you know, is there something you can do with this? Would this be helpful for you? Is there a way we could take some of your messaging, especially on rights and responsibilities and the relationship that those two things have without being anti gun or program control or anything else?
And I said absolutely that's amazing because it's what I what I've never wanted to do is go on to this this media outlet to be talking about gun rights and trying to represent you know some portion of the complex thing that is a hundred plus million gun owners in our country and But my tagline is you know personal defense network right personal faith I'm talking about school shooters and post-school shooter response personal defense gun rights, you know
Gun owner is a very compelling and personal offense network is a business that tries to stay out of the politics. I see a training company doesn't really mean anything. People ask me if I work with the boarder, you know, so second amendment organization was great. NA offered me the executive vice president position, which is sort of like the COO, the guy who gets to do the stuff. And we don't do a lot of fundraising. We have a couple of, let's say, benefactors that send us some money. I put a lot of money into it.
itself. Brian puts money into it. There's other people really, they're close to it to put money into 2A0. But you won't, we have a donation put through on the website, right? But we don't do a lot of like, help us fund this next lawsuit. We might donate some stuff to FPC or Second Amendment Foundation. Like those, those entities exist. We're not trying to duplicate that. We're just trying to deliver a rights and responsibilities message. We're all about, we have the, the,
position statements, two AO position statements at gun rights dot info, where people can go to see all the board signs off on these. I penned a lot of them. They put in some input. We tweak this line, tweak that line, but there's like over 60 positions we have on private gun making, suppressor, legality, the NFA, constitutional carries. We have all these topics, right? And the question is, you know,
Where does Second Amendment organization and then obviously some portion of American gun owners stand on these positions? So it's not just pounding on the podium and saying, you know, Second Amendment, what part don't you understand? It's digging into the details of the positions that we can have a more educated and articulate gun rights advocate. And we really believe in grassroots advocacy and educated, articulate grassroots advocacy, not just you can take a gun from a cold dead hand advocacy, which doesn't- You're more than a slogan.
Yeah. Yeah. So we try to dig in a little deeper. And so it was great. I was honored by the opportunity. And I think it's done a lot of good for, you know, sometimes it's like, well, who is this guy? Well, he's a trainer. Well, he's a gun designer. He's a marketing guy. He's an educating guy, but he's executive. But the executive vice president of Second Amendment organization to somebody outside of the gun community is like, Oh, he has a job. You know, you can see, you know, you can see two AO org and they can see what I do at walk the talk and what I do at other places. And I hope that those things are also important to them.
But there is just this weird credibility issue of, oh, he's part of this organization. And then once they're there, we hope they see the information. So it's about building that army. And Kevin Dixie has joined the board since to join him with us. And that's been great to have him and his input, his thoughts.
as well. And we really just kind of, we're trying to low-key second-ment rights. We're going to, that does, can do things like back the gun makers match and talk about private gun making. We can back the two-way rally and bring other people in without stepping on emails as toes. So that does other organizations do what they do really well. Absolutely. All right.
And fashionably late, just like the diva he is. It's like there's something going on this week. I don't even know what's going on. How is it? It's not just a lot. Just one. Just one. One to about. There's no order to speak. If you have a Versa 380, you're wrong.
Yeah. Well, we were talking about this. We were talking about this yesterday. And this is kind of crazy. First of all, this is Raphael with Bursa USA. Okay. Well, yeah. But you're like the King Puba versus USA. The King Puba. Is that on the lower side? That's going to be on your badge next year. Raphael King Puba. I need to be canceled.
That's poo bobbing game. I remember it. I don't know. It just means it's just not used. It's probably will be now. We're bringing sexy back. That's right. We were talking yesterday about the gun industry a little bit. And there's obviously a lot of great
manufacturers, great gun companies that are here. But there's a lot of that. I didn't say awesome. There are some always a few kind of. Yeah. There's literally there's literally only a true handful of companies that when you hear a company name,
You obviously offer a lot more guns, but when you hear bursa, it's thunder. Yeah. And there are very few companies in this industry that are, when you think of something, you automatically know about that company because of a gun. And now obviously you're expanding to AR. We're trying to change that. Yeah. But at least we're not.
I just learned about your suppressors. Those are some of the most technologically advanced suppressors in the show, in the community. It's different from anything that anybody else... I'm impressed, so I'm already super impressed by that. It's funny you say the thunder. I think of the thunder as like...
the new, like a newy, newish thing, right? Because I think I go back to like the 3A3 model, right? But what I do think is 380. I think a lot of people think 380. And it does a great disservice to like the VP and some of the other guns you have that versus from a long way, baby. That 380 is one of the OG, yes, classic carry guns. It was an OG carry gun. There's a couple of guns only. Yeah, it was really the
one of the first every man's affordable carry compact michael cop-out whatever you want call it i wanted James Bond gun yeah i couldn't afford to three eighty three d eight satin brushed with wood panel yeah yeah we should have kept it shut up
I've sold a few guns and I needed money. Yeah, but it's it's one of those where where we are now with concealed carry movement in the last decade. There are a few guns out there in the in the three A the burst, whatever, you know, the verse of 380's lineage is directly responsible for a lot of what is going on now. Bodyguard. So yeah,
go back to the thunder, the 383 line, and then you go to the VP. And then you look at like, I was just in the Smithman, look at what the bodyguard is.
But you guys had that. The BP-9, when it came out 10 years ago or whatever, was the first ultra slim single stack nine millimeter pistol. I mean, I remember when Smith & Wesson was in our booth, taking pictures of it. We're not saying anything about something happening. But they were obviously wanting to develop some more in development or something like that. What are we doing here? The shield wasn't out yet.
got 43 after that, the, you know, the, uh, the shield, the 43 came out, the, you know, whatever. Yeah. And a lot of people can do this shield is this one of these guns, but they don't realize that it wasn't really necessarily the first design of that kind of a gun. Even a slim, like the new bodyguard is really slim as if it had a 380, but the shield is a nine isn't nearly open. No, no, no. And now you got rifles.
You got your oppressors. I mean, you guys are 2011. So the 2011. Yeah, see what we look at. Is that a new? Is that a new? Yes. It's a new design. Oh, it's a it's a 2011. Apparently, apparently, it's causing our double segment. Our double segment.
What's 1911? I don't know that. Wow. You told me, Rob, last year, I don't believe in a 1911, but I might have to get yours because it's true. You had some. Don't play. Don't play coy with me. I can. By the way, these guys have just met. They don't go each other for the end of years. You've got to become a caratol, right? Yeah. So, caratol, like, whatever, 12 years ago, they count the caratol F, and it was the most innovative trigger
and pistol striker, but it's most innovative pistol, I think, for a long time when the first carol F came out. Last year, they released a 19-wheeler. Yeah. Like really? We're going back. And now? Like, and now? Go ahead. Two left. No, man. You got to jump on the van. Why? Do I? No. Should I do this? I do. I don't mean to do you. So what had the consultant as a senior consultant? You should not jump, first of all. As a senior consultant.
To me, as a guru, as a mentor, as a approval, approval, approval, approval, approval. Do we need a wrong thing, this double stack, 1911? You just came out with an AR 15 or? Well, I wouldn't have about it. I'll try to leave on almost that. Petey, Petey, Petey 10. Look, just, let's not, let's not talk about real things. I'm just saying. Let's just talk about, let's just talk about fantasy. What is, what if I just, I don't do it myself? Yeah.
But I just love yours so much that I tell anybody who would buy a Rob Bink is Double Stack 1911. Just buy this. Five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five
that we're like my younger daughter in about 12 years will be old enough to buy a pistol. So if you guys are still around, she'll get one. So right there, we have almost 10. If you in the comments, let us know. If we could get 12, if we could get two bakers dozen. Yeah, what is the price point on said retro gun?
Uh, MSRP on our on our gun is 1500. Oh, shit. That's we just got the 22 10% discount in the comment that you can live now. Now, when he's trying to respond to the gun, I think about 22,000. What he's trying to do is if he can get to 25, he expected a free gun from you. I'm I sold yesterday more more of our new gun than PD 10s have ever been sold.
Oh, what's this? Shots fired. I gotta go to WTDA.org. We're booty, bitch. That should be a passion.
That's your logo. That's a slogan. You guys know that the PD-10, I was part of that story. There's a version of the story. You gave it for 15 years. The PD-10 was my idea, but a signature series. People that don't know the history of Google it, because we don't want to retell that story again. But yes, he was there day one, day zero,
We got it up to you. Yeah, Eagle had this idea. And then there was another conversation. It was happening, which I've written about and talked about in terms of the PD-10. And then those two things merged, and then they split apart. But I feel like they're almost like this 1911 project might be something. There's going to be a docking kind of scenario. That would be cool. All right. Let me show you again, exactly how that works. So with this, and then it was not flowing down. And then it just goes, this is the church. This is the steeple.
That's how you design things, right? I don't get anything silly, buddy, and make the shape, and then I take it to an engineer, and I'm like, what am I going to do there? But somewhere between a flyer and an ad spin is a beating on you.
Do all that. But the slides got to be lower so I get to recon. Can you do that? And then next week we're going to start all over again. So if you're a consulting engineer that's interested, if you know that he'll see me bring you to design tomorrow. He did start again just about every week. It was a lot of time coming. We can honestly do this for the next six hours with these guys.
Well, there's a place any nap was I heard we need to go to next time. So, you know, we'll figure that out. There's a bar that's the one. No, no, no, no. The slippery noodle baby.
I had no idea. They told me it was a lot of blues bars. You're never going to guess what happened in the band. They said there was a really, there was a really weird bar. And so you took a lot of it. I was reading about it. Imagine it's the oldest blues bar in the world. That's the whole magazine. That's me. This is the very first in the pocket. You would tell me what I was reading about it in the magazine.
It's one you got to buy. You got to show it an ID when you buy it. And then the counter person is going to let everybody know. Oh, you want? Yes. Yes. I like what you're saying. No, I just I'm just looking for a place to go. I'm using it for the articles and the
So for the first time, it's the one in the hotel. He's trying to close it. We're not going to be honest. I don't care. It's his show. You can do that. Here's your retro. You guys need to have us on the regular podcast. I don't know if that's not that. We can do that. Our banter will drive you and your audience. We'll have to bring, we'll have to bring Sedini in and get scope the Holy Trinity.
He's losing his voice, so I'm going to take this thing over on Friday. Yep. He is. We're going to have him step in and think about it. He's going to do that. It's going to be fantastic. They want to have some stuff. You've obviously sold enough guns. You don't even need the next two days. You've sold so many guns. The only guy in the industry that still waits for shot show to sell the guns to the retailers. Good mix of every genre. Good discipline. No, but I understand. But most of these people have sold all the guns out by now, these other companies.
From what I understand, there's sold distributors all modern in ESKW, you can't get them. But you, on the other hand, sir, that's why the 30 I've got on the show. I'll come in with you later, I'll come in. First, it doesn't have any 1911s left, Rob, will you sell us a truck? I've come in with the hot, calibrating iron, at shucks. Man, I don't, that's, again, you learn that in magazine, ladies and gentlemen. The hot, braided iron. The same one, what's even earlier? I learned that watching Yellowstone.
I just found out like two weeks ago that isn't an old-timey Western show. Like somebody put it on during the holidays. You watched the Calvian branded and you said no, that must be old sir. I've been on a branding. I've been on a branding. I'm going to try and win. I'm agreeing. I'm a great Calan by the way, so just don't mess with me. That's what she said. But what I will tell you is
Because I just, I'm so tuned out on the, I didn't realize it was a contemporary show. I was like, so dumb. Where, where can people find you or get a hold of you for any of your ventures? Or sort of, or scroll anywhere. I need a silk gun. In a network. Uh, look up me. And I'll put you on a vast connection and a lot of them. Yeah.
do it.
My older daughter was very, and she's like, yeah, you gotta check it out. I'm like, I don't care. I don't need a robot synopsis. I know how Google works, right? So she's like, just try it. So I did it. So I said write a three paragraph. First off, you can find Roth at Versa.com. First off, the USA.com. Okay, Rob, go ahead. You should know about Facebook, Instagram. My space. We're bringing my space back. I am not on my space. Trump's got Trump's committed to bringing my space back. He's got TikToks.
That's why I spent too much time watching Yellowstone. It's not in 1911, it's growing crazier. It's the 20th. Same thing. No. You've seen it. It's quite different. Parrot Ordinance had a double stack 1911 in like 1992, 1988. I love my Parrot. Yes, I've got one of those weak ones. I've got one of the LDA's.
19 round 9 millimeter double action trigger 1911 still in 1911 the idea that they're the warthog I've got the war dog. Yeah, of course, that makes sense. I can see you. Yeah, absolutely. It's a stout gun ladies and gentlemen, if you haven't seen the war dog, it's stout.
Yep, yep. It's like, you've got one thing wrong of the whole paragraphs. Like, let's say it was, I don't know what's that five sentences. It's like 15 to 20 sentences and had one factual error. And but this is like a year and a half ago. So who knows, chat, whatever, GTP nine has gotten out, probably wouldn't even have that error. What was the error? Then I grew up in a family of hunters.
which my stepfather was an avid hunter but no one else like none of my like your mom and your mom didn't know I wasn't a big like yeah. Well apparently AI does not listen to my podcast for information on things they would say that you would yeah you would have got that. I don't know. I mean I see how they jumped at a conclusion but there's nothing literally. Now that you've cleared that up when you write another one with AI it should not include that. I feel like I should write a book by now. I'm surprised we haven't written a book by one book.
Well, no, I mean, another book like it seems like AI would get me off the I've been on a hiatus in the writing. I think maybe if you can put it in paperback magazine form, I know I got it might buy one. Depends on the pictures. The syruples. The syruples might need it. I don't really read. I wanted to do it. Dany from his bugaboy days is a syruple.
Oh my God, he was so seven of them. Wait, but so here's the thing about, a lot of people don't realize this. He was way out of the curve on gender fluidity. We know. So he had this whole life. People don't realize before his uncle said, come on, we're forward for the company, kid. Get a real job, put your shirt on, you know, whatever. That was actually the real life expression of it. That was actually the real life expression of it.
that's why I'm not laughing as hard as they are, because I know it's true. I don't know what he did to bedazzling, but he was definitely an early adopter. He was one of the first guys I knew that were because he's been a big fan of very well. He was one of the first people I knew.
they were also almost see one handily in the 90s of able to keep up the hair gel studio. Never studio studio. He was that alive. He did. He did. He had early early sponsor. The sad thing is he looks just as good now as he did back then. I'm not sure what he's doing. When he had the when he had that like wam third guy to wam up there on the suite. He did. He did. I'm not I'm not saying but free drink the free drinks.
Okay. Wherever, wherever you're in. Oh my God. Shot Show 2025, where you find out the important things that firearms industry.
It's only day two. I don't even know what the hell you do at this point. We're just going out. We're going out. We're just going to go ahead and click the commercial. We'll be back. That segment's coming sometime. I'm going to read the comments and the people now. My wife says hello. The first time she's ever watched any of my shit, she's here to watch you, by the way. So yeah.
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In a world where mental health is often overlooked, one organization is leading the charge. Walk the Talk America, a force for change, breaking down stigmas and fostering conversations that matter. At Walk the Talk America, they believe in the power of dialogue to reshape the narrative surrounding mental health. Their mission is simple but profound. To bridge the gap between mental health and firearms, because they understand that the real change starts with understanding
empathy and open conversation. Tune into their groundbreaking podcast, Guns and Mental Health, where experts, advocates and survivors share their stories and insights. It's not just a podcast, it's a movement towards a more compassionate and informed society.
Join them as they organize events, workshops, and outreach programs to build a community that supports mental health without judgment. Join me in supporting Walk the Talk America and visit their website, walkthetalkamerica.org, to be part of the change.
Well, guys, we do invite you to go check out both ours and Clover's YouTube channels, ours is Ghost Tactical, where you can find all of our content over there, including our videos and our podcasts, and you can go check out Clover at Clover Tech. Obviously, you can check out all of his content and podcasts as well. We also invite you to check out our websites, ours is ghosttactical.us, where you'll be able to find everything that we're doing, including our swag store,
And Clover's is clovertack.com. Once again, find all of his projects, all of his swag, and all of that. More importantly guys, we do thank everyone for always supporting both myself and Clovertack, whether it's just by watching our stuff, or those that do spend their hard-earned money through YouTube channel memberships. We do truly appreciate you guys. You guys make this all worthwhile. We are currently getting ready for our next guest, so stand by for the stand by.
All right, we are back. Day two shot show 2025. Ghost and Clover here at the Bursa booth real quick. Shout out to our partners Bursa and walk the talk America. Third segment of day two. We are proud to bring in some great, great people. Yeah. Yeah, just that last segment. Oh.
Oh, yeah. He's caught that first of all. I'm sorry. Rob Heak is officially banned from the Ghost and Glower Vodka as I think. And it's the first time we've ever had to ban a sponsor. We had to ban a sponsor. And so that's interesting. The children are now out of the room. They're fighting that. We can still hear them arguing out there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah.
where we've got Devin kiss the king and and we've got Chris from HRT tactical. Let's start with Devin real quick Devin real quick. Assume that no one knows what's going on. First off an amazing story. What you are doing and what you have done in a short time is incredible. So I want you to fill in people what you're doing your background and why this you decided to take on this fight yourself basically. Got you.
Oh, that's a lot. It's a lot. I like, I like to ask like 17 questions. No, no, no, you're good. Um, background, uh, I'm a history nerd from Northern Virginia. My family had the largest, uh, free and post, uh, farm in Northern Virginia during the Civil War. So it got turned into a hospital.
in the middle, in the Battle of Bull Run. So yeah, like a historical plaque and everything. When people ask about like family trees, I literally know mine from like it's origin. That's amazing. And that essentially is what birthed my love and desire for freedom.
That's incredible. There's not many people that can do that. They can trace the lineage to a specific spot. Not just where, but like a specific spot. This is where my family came from. Yeah, I can say I lived on that property for.
12 years of my life? Wow. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Kids the king. Oh, kids the king, man. Man. Man, what? Like, how did this happen? It is taking off. Do you want, like, the origin story or the summary? Let's do a summary. Let's do a summary. I don't want... We could do a whole podcast on probably the origin, right? I mean, honestly, it was pretty simple.
I stand on the shoulders of giants. So I was working with Mosse to where I was black and matter a lot. And he was already in conjunction working with Versa and Mike Sedini when he was still with Versa. They had already had plans to do stuff but in the middle of their plans, Mosse decided to run for city council in Philadelphia. In the midst of Mosse running for Philadelphia or for city council in Philadelphia, he couldn't, I guess, designate as much time and attention to the
to the plan that him and Mike had put together, I had already started to build kids to Kings with a few of my other friends back home. So when I ran into Mike in Ram 2019, India.
Yeah. Yeah. I interviewed Mike. And then right after that, we spoke about Kids of the Kings. And two weeks later, me and him were on the phone, drafting up the plans for it. Fast forward to now, the boys have a 48-acre range, thanks to Kevin Dixie and USCCA. They train once a month, and they are not just shooting, like, wood grain bolt action 22s. They're shooting pistols that they want to shoot. So our biggest thing is using the gun as a martial art and making sure that
Yes, you understand how to operate the gun, what the gun does, all of that, but also the important aspects of why we even carry guns and why we protect ourselves. And it's a lot more than just a gun. It's a way of life. It's a whole mindset that you guys are trying to instill in these kids and say, hey, don't be a victim. And it's fantastic. It's just curating and guiding the already inevitable
testosterone and aggression that every little boy has. Like we grew up with water guns, nerve guns, calf guns. Like you're not going to tell a boy he doesn't want to play with a gun. So instead of continuing, trying to legislate it or hide them from them, which is only going to build the curiosity. Why don't you lead with education? And they still get the same amount of excitement. They just actually understand what these tools are for. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, you know, we had, uh, we had Mike on yesterday and
one of the things he talked about when he goes to these conferences like that he has these conversations and somebody says what but you know because it's mental health-oriented right and then somebody says well but what about
uh, you know, gun violence, like with children or with kids. He's like, Oh, we got kids together. Oh, yeah. We're already there ahead of you. Thanks for having me. He's got these alliances that are that are built in. Yes. Gives him the power that when they try to ship that narrative, right, it could come back real quick. We got an answer for that.
We destroy any talking point you could ever think of. All of my counselors are reformed degenerates. My first counselor, he's still on the gang registry in Virginia. Former blood, completely reformed. Now he's baptized in everything. So even when we have the kids,
There's nothing that they want to do that they think is cool that we haven't already experienced ourselves. And even when it gets to the guns, normally at that point is when, like I said earlier, everything is cool. Get to the gun and then it's, oh, just don't do that. Don't shoot blah, blah, blah. Brown violence. This world is filled with violence. We watch violence on TV and pay for it on pay per view. Exactly.
football. So let's just be honest, let's meet them where they're at, and let's just make sure that they're doing it correctly. And is that something? I love it. I mean, like I said, which you're doing is phenomenal.
There's going to be multiple people that are out there that either want to get their children or their grandkids or friends of a friend's kids involved with this. And we're going to talk a little bit here in a minute about how they can get a hold of you. But what you're doing is phenomenal. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. You want to bring Chris? I don't know if you can tell. This is brought to you by Phoebe. Phoebe's sexy boy. Yeah. I don't know. My sexy boy. I sound like Rob. I fucking sound like Rob. Well, that's not good. Yeah, I didn't know that. I have more half inch.
free for you. That's a lot. You sound fantastic. It's going to be worse the next two days. And it's that way ever shot. It was that last year. You spent last night, probably didn't help me outside. And tonight will be out there again. Exactly. But yeah, sitting in the corner like you point. Because it's a nice fool, by the way. He's Christopher point. Thanks.
It's Chris from HRT. Hey, bud. Well, first and foremost, I want to say thank you guys for having me on. It's always a pleasure. But I want to say thank you for always giving me the chance to follow such inspirational stories every time I've been on. With his kid's program, he's like, I don't even would say, but I just want to say his website. I just want to say, hey, guys, I had a chance to talk. My name is Jeff before.
And just listening to him tell me the story before he had a chance to say it over here. Yeah. Highly inspirational, highly responsible, extreme story that's just something you wish we saw more of. And something we were talking about before we came on. And he took that role because he looked around and he said no one else was doing it.
And he literally took us by the way. I can't say that. I cannot say that. Kevin Dixie has had a program called Aiming for the Truth in Missouri for a very long time. So what I essentially did was took Walk to Talk America, Black Lives Matter, and Aiming for the Truth, immerse them all together. And what he always told me was, don't try to recreate the wheels, just put rims on the pitch. But at the same time, though, you took that time, that effort, that interview, which drained so many people, and you said, hey, what?
I'm going to make this in my region. I'm going to make it so it's accessible to more. And that's what I'm talking about when I say you're taking on that role. You're basically saying, I'm going to take this responsibility on. Yes, I did learn that from others, but that is already it's gone. And I wish we had more of that or people who had the energy.
to bring that to the table. So I say kudos to you, sir. Thank you very much. Excellent. Nothing but respect for what you're doing. Thanks very much, guys. Like I said, I give all of the gratitude to my mentors that poured into me. Yes. And essentially, that's what we're doing with the boys. Like, literally, I got poured into by men that were not related to me. They weren't my father, uncle, brother, nothing. So it was like,
If I can get that, what is it going to do to a child's life? If I get them at an even younger age and they got me. So we can just create that actual trickle-down effect of creating successful human beings. So here's the thing. We're going to get that correct. I'm fine. Just talk here about all this, because let's be honest, we're all Pro2A here. That's it. We all believe that there's stupid rules on the books that don't belong. Right. And I think he said it best when he said, hey, look,
There's something masculine in kids that are starting to bloom, and they know that there's violence in the world. But hey, how can we sharpen that tool so that it's not going to be used in the wrong way and teach the responsibility? So that's why I've got nothing but respect for them. Well, the part that I look forward to, and we're not going to know it to maybe 20 years, right, is the next you could have come from you.
I think we already got him. He'll be here next year. He's 12. That's the biggest difference. He talks like I do. You're touching lives of kids.
and not just teaching them life skills, you're not just teaching them fire on abilities, you're not teaching them about life, you're teaching them how to live a life. And you're inspiring the next generation of you, which means this never dies, which is unbelievable, bro.
Hey, if you have to deal with a world of means, good luck to Andy. Yeah. We get what we want. Yeah. Yeah. So we are going to go back. We're going to force Chris. He doesn't want to. We're going to make Chris talk about as part because they are phenomenal. You guys know from my channel, I've been working with Chris and HRT for a long, long time.
Fantastic. Probably honestly, I mean, I'm not saying this because you and I have talked a lot on the phone and all that. If you're looking for a plate carrier and you're a gear junkie, it is by far, in my opinion, the best plate carrier out there. You guys were in so many more things now. I mean, I can't even imagine how many SKUs you probably have on the books now. It's unbelievable where you've come in like the last few years. It's unbelievable. I think it's funny when you bring up the SKUs because one of the things that we have been doing
is going in and trying to reduce some of the components that we are selling because everything needs to be modernized. There's new techniques, there are new procedures that can be done to make products built to a high quality, but also make them comfortable. One of the biggest components is making something as light as possible.
Yeah. On the ballistic side, plates have gotten so much lighter. So plate carriers are starting to follow in that suit. And that's probably been something that's been going on, or at least the goal is, hey, if we can make this as light as possible. And I know you know what I'm talking about. You've been out there doing road marches, patrols, and God knows what else. Nothing sucks worse than carrying 80 pounds a gear, but you still carry 40 pounds. It's a little different.
But you also want lightweight, you have what I think is the lightest war belt, duty belt, the lightest belt I've ever been around. And it's one of the things that we're very happy on, but we did come out with a 2.0. I think we're looking at a quarter two, quarter three release.
It's already starting to go into testing and evaluation. I think maybe we can get you one and get you on that T&E side. I love your stuff. But beyond that, one thing I would like to say is thanks to people in the community that have given us constructive criticism. Without that, we could not make products. And that's one of the reasons why we tried to strive to make better products along the way.
And I love that because I have. We had a very frank conversation about a year ago with the first belt. And I said, look, I love you, bro. We're friends. But there are some concerns. And you're like, let's hear them. Like it was like, hey, you know, don't lose my number. It was like, you know, I think I might know what you're talking about because we've already identified some areas. And I said, you know, hey, I need to hear this because we are going to
We're going to do this better and all that, but we have to know that data before you can make the change, right? And if I didn't accept that and welcome it, most companies don't do that. Here's our product like or don't deal with it. Well, I think that I'm not going to say that's every big company, but larger companies that are kind of gotten set in that mindset where they feel that they may hold the torch. And I'm not going to bash anybody. That's not what I do. My purpose is I'm a thick skin guy. I've had worse told to me.
Absolutely. Someone saying, hey, I don't like this. I don't like that. The whole purpose behind it is I can't make something better for the majority unless I can hear the negatives. Absolutely. And like I said, I love that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't take any insult to it. We know our products may not be for everyone, but we just want to let those who are regular buyers of the stuff that we do produce. We're doing this because you guys gave us the opportunity to, but more importantly, your feedback gave us the ability to make it better.
I love it.
We're happy. Pretty good. Real quick, David. Let's bring you in again for people. Like I said, they want to get their children involved. If they want to get involved, if there's companies out there that say, I believe what you're doing, I want to donate or I want to be a partner with you or whatever, where can they find you with an email, social media website? Where can they get ahold of you? Kids to Kings on YouTube and Instagram. And then if you go to Walk the Talk America forward slash kids dash two dash Kings, we're right there. Or if you just go to the Walk Talk America website, we're on the resource section.
Um, real quick, I want to shout out a couple of our sponsors. Yeah. Shout out to Ruger. Shout out to Davidson's. Um, who else we got? We got a lot of people. Um, arm score. They sent a score. Yeah. 13,000 rounds. We only asked for three. That's amazing. And I think 5,000 of that was 22 men.
really? Oh, which is more than I know right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And so they really believe in this kid. The kids enjoyed that. Oh, we have a running joke, right? Do you? We asked them, do y'all know how long it took us to get companies to send us free and we are 12 years old and you're just 13,000 rounds right now? Join it more.
But yeah, shout out to all of our sponsors. Like I said, Ruger, Davidson's, uh, hi, why am I spacing on the arms core? Cause there's a lot to America. Yeah. Greenwood project, USCCA gorillas in the mist, girls in the mist, all of these people have poured into these boys. So it's not just me. Like I said, I stand on the shoulders of giants. I just spring louder than most of them. Yeah. Right. I love it. Um,
Keep up the great length seriously. I mean, we're all saying this, but like you are an inspiration. And I hope you know that there's a lot of people out of here, whether you know it or not, are supporting you and are pulling for you and realize we need you. So you're doing a great job. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. Absolutely. Chris, uh, HRT tactical. Um, where can they find you? I know you got a bunch of stuff. I mean, there's a whole lot of stuff that's going on with you guys. Where can they find all the info on you?
All right. So if people are trying to find us www.hrttactylgear.com, that's the website. Same thing for Instagram, Facebook, as well as X. We do have an account on X. We do post there. But as far as one thing I would like to say, I just want to say thanks to both Trey and Chris for having me on. Absolutely.
And I also want to thank them for allowing me to be here with such wonderful guests, such as myself, and to hear these inspirational stories, to hear these high energy people going out doing higher energy things, and making yourself look in the mirror and say, hey, we can do better. Absolutely.
We should just close on that. That was pretty much perfect. We're out. You guys can have it. You guys can't talk. What are you doing today? I'm going to be talking a whole lot that I'm just going to be. We can have the Chris and Devin show and just walk away and just be good. All we can have. All we can have. No, we cannot. No, we cannot. We do not want that to happen now because no one will ever get a word here. Sit pink us over there. Just lock the door. Yeah.
Well, it's recorded because that might be the greatest thing ever. It would go pay per view. You can't watch unless you send Devin a super cheap. We're going to say $20 minimum. And then more than that, you can see the behind the scenes. Absolutely. Oh, man. Chris, it's been a great day, too. I'm not feeling great. I'm trying to talk more for you. I know you're hurting right now.
Hey, I'm going to hit the salt water, you know, tonight and cough drops and other things. And I don't know. Maybe maybe I can muddle through it. I think a little bourbon might help, but that's just there might be certain fashions actually did help the other night. His very first smoked old fashioned their night and it really helped.
and
common to the booth. And for all the support that they, you know, not just walk, talk America and kids, the Kings and all these other programs, but yeah, podcasters and creators and whatnot, like, like you and myself too. I saw you guys had a MGS out there. Yeah. On the board. Yeah. We just got here tomorrow. Yeah. We just agreed to a sponsorship program for kids, the Kings. Yeah. So we're going to be doing some real different stuff in 2025, 2026 for sure. Very, very good.
Uh, we got to get out of here. We, um, well, thanks, Rob and Rob. So, uh, yeah. All right. Yeah. Uh, late day, late day, guys, check us out tomorrow for local six central seven Eastern. I'm still with mixed up on the old civic time. It's, it's not a real time zone. I'm convinced it's, it's all fake over here. There's no time zones over here. It's really weird. I'm starting to get away from those.
I think Arizona says we're going to be at times over half the year. So it's like, what? You know, 24 or seven digitally connected world. What difference does this make? Really? There is somebody at four in the morning watching this in Turkey right now. I mean, we can always move to sooner time. And then we'll just start from the Ukraine. Yeah. And from Rico, you got back from the train last week. And I told him, I need a shirt.
That's all. So in closing for all of our Turkish viewers out there apparently. Mahabah. Mahabah. No, goody, goody. All right, goody, goody. We'll see you on tomorrow, guys. Turkey wasn't the country.
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