You think birds don't work anymore? How about making 100 grand on a single deal here in 2024?
Hey everyone, it's Dave and today I'm joined by David Leko. David is a real estate investor with a portfolio that he has had for a couple years but is still actively growing in Indianapolis and he's also the CEO of Deal Machine. You may have heard him on a previous version of this episode. He was on episode 830 about a year ago.
And today I'm looking forward to catching up with him and what he's been doing with his own personal portfolio because he sort of left us dangling a year ago with some big deals that he had in the works. So today he's going to update us on some of the things he's been doing and his plans for 2025. Let's jump into it.
David, welcome back to the show. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, man. I was looking that episode 830 was October 12th, 2023, almost a little over a year ago. Dude, and look at us now. We're like in the thousands. We've been making a lot of podcasts, but we're excited to have you back because a lot has happened in the last year. I know. I was excited to tell you about some stuff on my end too with real estate.
Well, before we jump back in, David was a guest on the show about a year ago. And for people who didn't listen to that, can you maybe just give us a brief intro? Yeah. So it was called, I believe, burned out tech worker to over $2 million in real estate. The primary method I used was the Burr method and bigger pockets pretty much invented that. But if nobody knows, it's buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat. Or how I like to describe it is like when Nike shoes
puts together materials and they buy it and then they sell it to you for like three times more than it costs them. It's kind of like what you're doing with a rundown house and you add a new drywall, new roof, et cetera. And now all of a sudden it's worth three times what you originally paid for it. So did that, so recycled the down payment. I wasn't rich by any means, but then I held those nine properties for like five years and they appreciated collectively a million dollars. So that was in Indianapolis where the average price of the house was probably
150. So it was pretty significant for me, somebody that was in my mid to late 20s when I got started. And then we kind of to connect the dots talked about one of the latest deals I'd found. And I can now tell you the completion of that bird deal. And some big lessons that I learned along the way to the biggest deal that I've done for sure.
I know you do a lot of deals. You've been doing this for a while. And I think the big question me and our audience has is what deals are you doing today? And like what's still working? Cause obviously things have gotten harder. So sounds like you just completed your, the biggest deal you've ever done. Yes.
Yes, the biggest deal that I ever did so far was from a tax delinquent list in Indianapolis. I actually pulled the tax delinquent list and that data comes out almost like a year delayed from the county even because you have a while to pay your taxes. David, can you tell us what that is just for people who don't know what a tax delinquent list is?
So if you guys have a house and you have a mortgage, that mortgage has your taxes for the property's escrow that you owe every single year. And if you have rental properties, as I've gotten some more, sometimes you have the opportunity to not escrow those payments. So there's not an automatic payment happening. So people may forget to pay their taxes. And if they do, they show up on this list, their tax delinquent.
And then they auction off the right to buy that house at a discount. But if the owner pays their taxes, they can redeem that property back and that that will not be sold from out from under them. So you always have to pay your property taxes. Basically, otherwise the government takes it away from you and lets somebody else buy it at an auction. So you can pull this list of people who have not paid their taxes.
and the guy called actually mailed. He is an orthodontist in Utah. He makes a lot of money presumably in that job and he was turned on to the idea of investing in real estate. He bought five properties in Indianapolis.
um, and had a contractor that had told him he'd partner on the deal with them. He'd make sure the houses get fixed up, et cetera. Not really sure what happened, but five years later, I'm calling him because he's tax delinquent and this house has the hole in the roof. I mean, it is unlivable. It's so.
distraught, you know, it's just terrible shape. And he bought it five years ago. And I actually am now talking to him like, why are you taxiling him? What's going on? Can I help? And he said they're just such a huge headache. He wants to get rid of it. And I just ran my numbers. He paid it 180. I offered him 160. I was like, it's just the best I could do in order to make the numbers work for me. So he actually sold it to me for 20 less. And he bought it five years ago. And also he came and paid his back taxes.
So, uh, and as a thank you, he's like, oh, I've got more properties. So, and as a thank you, I was like, well, dude, let me line you up with my contractor directly and help him get some of those out from under you. So, um, I didn't buy the rest from him. I think he, I know at least did a couple deals with my contractor. So it was a great win-win.
That's awesome, man. I love that you did that and helped him out with the contractor, too. But I want to just ask a little bit more about the strategy, because this is pretty fascinating. So when you go after the tax delinquent, your strategy, it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, is not to buy it off the city. You just wanted to get a list of people who were in a position where they might be looking for someone to take a property off their hands.
then you went out and directly contacted someone and found what you were looking for. Essentially someone who was just fed up with this property and wanted someone just like you to make them an offer. Correct. I didn't go to the city. I didn't invest in the tax lien because it hadn't gotten to that point yet. But I wanted to get the list so I could get in front of those people who really may not even know they're on that list.
But in this case, just had a headache property. So that's exactly what I did is I got in front of them before that process happened. It is kind of crazy. Like you said earlier, who are the people who will sell at a discount? Because just like the idea of having a property that's sitting there and rotting just gives me so much anxiety.
I could never imagine that. But clearly, this happens to people and it's not just people who are, you know, fallen hard times economically. It sounds like, you know, orthodontists, I think make a lot of money. Yeah. So it just sounds like there's just circumstances that arise where these types of deals are possible. I'm just curious, like, how many people like this do you have to call to find a deal? Like, what's the math look like in terms of outreach to success rate?
Yes. Well, in this case, I mailed him, but I actually at deal machine, so I started deal machine. It's a software marketing tool. We launched a dialer in July. People make half a million calls on it a month. And so I actually know the analytics because they use AI to determine what happened to this conversation. Was it a hot lead, et cetera. So I can look at the details and tell you it takes about 200 conversations to get
like one deal, basically. So conversations would be people that picked up and you spoke to more than just, hey, do you want to sell your property? No, bye. You know what I mean? So that's, yeah. So that's, those are the figures and I have 200 conversations. I think it's about 30 hours of calling. Okay.
Dude, I love this. Well, I'm just a data person, so I'm super excited about that. It's really cool data. Yeah, you hear about this that Off-Market deals, which is totally not my specialty, so I'm going to pepper you with questions about that later. But you always hear that it's just a numbers game, and I was always kind of curious what the numbers are. So you hear it there first, about 30 hours to get the deal. So now we know some of the effort. Tell us what the payoff was. So you got this deal for, it sounds like 160. What was the rehab plan?
Yeah, so I figured it should be worth about 400, but it really needed everything because it actually was.
Not to get too graphic, but I mean, it looked like somebody there was like just nasty stuff smeared all over the wall. You can imagine what that might be. So basically like all the drywall, the entire attic, because there was mold from the house, you know, having a hole in it, hole kitchen, hole roof, everything. So it ended up being 125.
Okay. So if you're doing the math, that means I'm all in 285. But, you know, it was six months to even get that done. So that was quite a while. And then, so you have holding costs. Generally, if you're going to borrow $125,000, you might expect to pay like $6,000 to $12,000 for the privilege of borrowing that money for that amount of time.
So you're talking 300 grandish at this point. Yeah, exactly. So then I go to do the appraisal because in the birth strategy, now that you've got it all done, you want to refinance it. And the problem was it appraised at like 325.
which is a problem because that's not a bird deal. That's like a retail deal and I need to sell it quick before my holding costs start eating into profit and me going negative. But I just knew that had to be wrong. The problem that I made a mistake was I didn't tell the appraiser what it looked like when I bought it for 160 because they'll look at the price, they're like, we just bought it for 166 months ago. No way it could be worth 400,000. How could that be possible? So I went ahead
I got a new lender company. This time I gave them a pre appraisal report that showed them how much work I put into it since they see that transaction at 160, not too long ago, then it appraised for 425, which is above where I even thought it would. There you go.
Yeah, I mean, this was such a gift from Ryan Haywood, who's a buddy of mine, and I put a gift together for you guys as well. If you wanted on my Instagram, if you DM me, I'll give you a copy of this report. Just the keyword report is set up to send it to you guys. But it's a slideshow
of what the house looked like before and after the comps that I see are relevant that they may or may not see depending on how they're filtering their data. I mean, they're the expert, but it just went to show how much better communication from my end helped that deal work out. That's super cool. It's so funny. This happens all the time. People look at what you paid for it and they're like, no way it can be worth 400.
But it's not the appraiser's whole job to not look at what you paid for it and just try and understand from comps what the intrinsic value is. But it happens. If you look at just behavioral economics, this happens in all parts of the world. People look at this kind of stuff. But it's super cool that you figured out a way to be proactive about it. Because it's not like you were lying. You're just like, hey, look, this is what I did to it. And it helps reset the appraiser's mind. And that has real
benefits, right? When you're refinancing, then you get to take out significantly more of your equity, and it probably, I would imagine, improved your profit margin and your cash and cash return for that deal. Super cool. Yeah. So what did the profit come out to be?
Well, essentially, if it appraised for 425 and you get a loan at 75% loan to value, then that means you get back over 300,000, right? So actually put about 16,000 in my pocket, paid for the lender fees for doing that appraisal twice and the closing fees, et cetera. So about $100,000.
Wow, okay, so you made 100 grand. That's awesome. Congratulations. Sounds like a killer deal. You hear about these big deals, but in India, it's not a high-priced market, so it's harder to get a big deal like that. Totally, yeah. If you're doing something in Los Angeles, you hear about six-figure flips, but that is pretty rare.
So let me ask you this, because now you're saying you put 30 hours of time into it, essentially, and you've made 100 grand, which is great. If, in theory, you bought this deal on market. First of all, can you buy a deal like this on market in Indy? I haven't looked recently. I just don't think you could find a deal like this on market.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, especially at that price point. Even, let's just say you bought it for 160, if it was on the market for 210, which isn't all that different, you know, like the profit margin would be half, you know, it completely changes the deal. So I totally get why you would invest that time and those 30 hours to get that kind of deal.
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Let's get back into my conversation with David Lechman.
So what kind of deals are you looking at today? So I'm currently looking at deals that are like a little bit less than that. My perfect buy box in Indianapolis is like a high end rental. I noticed in Indy that you can't really get something to rent for over 2,500 bucks. The low end, I mean, you could go below 1,000, but my perfect, I think price point for that market is it rents for about 1,800 bucks. And because of the 1% rule, it'd be worth about 180.
So that I'd like to be all in 135, 140. And again, the best way to do that is like how Nike makes shoes. You get raw materials, you put them together, and you create value. So I want to get the benefit of doing that so I can grow the portfolio with the birth strategy, recycle the down payment, recycle the money to grow infinitely, so to say. And I've never done a build from scratch, but that seems like a lot more work than to just find something really run down and then fix it up.
That's funny you say that because I hear conflicting opinions about that all the time. Some people say, actually new construction is easier because you can follow a blueprint, you know, you can get something. But it sounds like you've taken the approach where you've sort of tried to, I guess you would say, templatize like the rehabs that you're doing.
Yeah, like a 1500 square foot ranch, three bedroom, two bath with a yard attracts a tenant that's got a pet that doesn't want to live in an apartment, but hasn't quite been ready to go buy their house yet. That just seems like my clients, my bread and butter. Yeah. And I've done multiple houses that were in the same neighborhood. So when they say blueprint, I think they, instead of the document, I think they just met, they build the same thing every time. Yeah. Business plan wise, like you're doing just the same thing over and over.
Right, so that's what clicked when you said that. But I've just noticed that as well, or I'd say I like to buy cookie cutter houses. I want the houses that looked similar to the ones I've already done. Oh, that's super cool. So that's your buy box. And you've been doing this for a while. Is that always been your buy box, or has it taken you some time to figure out exactly what you want? It wasn't always my buy box, but I just realized if I go too expensive, they're harder to rent. And then the first house I ever did, you won't even believe it.
because it was a $4,000 house, 600 square feet. And they get this. They fit two beds and two baths in this house. And I just knew it would work because there was a 2020 plan for the city that had four areas of development in Indianapolis. One was called 16 Tech. And it's come to fruition today. It's great. It looked like a genius.
I just knew I was like, if they're building all this infrastructure around the university, it's a research park, et cetera, and it looked terrible now. The school is like kind of nearby, and I see those apartments are pretty expensive, like $1,300 for 600 square feet. So that's why I figured I could charge for this house that I bought for $4,000. And I fixed it up for $65. I mean, it needed to do everything, but it's tiny.
It's not that expensive to fix everything. And so that's turned out, that was my first deal. So you could see really wide, really wide array of homes at first.
Oh, that's awesome. But I feel like once you find that sweet spot, it really makes things a lot easier. Even if the houses physically don't look the same, you just develop this sort of intuitive sense of what things are supposed to cost. You can start walking into a house, you're like, OK, this is going to work. Or this is at least worthy of consideration because you've done it so many times. How many of these buy box deals have you done at this point?
So I've done like own currently 19 properties. I would say 18 of those are the buy box. Well, 17. Yeah. There's a couple that just are outliers, but the rest all fit in similar to that. Awesome, man. Congrats. Well, I want to ask how it's been for you moving to Austin because I would imagine the business changes a little bit. The portfolio, what you're doing changes when you move from being physically in the market you're investing into doing it from a couple thousand miles away.
Yes, I don't recommend people start out of market, but I felt like because I already started, I already have knowledge of the market, I have knowledge of the contractors. If I were to ever sell my portfolio, it'd be convenient that they're all in one place. If I ever wanted to hire a new person to help manage or anything, if I want to see all my properties on one swooping trip, having them all in one place just seems simple to me. So I chose to keep doing deals at seven deals of past year and Indianapolis from Austin.
Wow. At the level that I'm at now, big fan of the concept buy back your time. It's been a popular book by Dan Martell. He's been a mentor of mine. I did private coaching with him before he wrote the book, actually. Cool. And one of the concepts is if your time's worth more than $15 an hour, $20 an hour, then
You can continue to grow your business by finding somebody to do those tasks that you pay that much, you know? And so one of the first hires that I think anyone should do is an assistant. It was very weird at first, but we have a system now where she does help with the rental properties in minimal ways. We use like these like show mojo lockboxes to have people send us their credit card and ID.
and then they automatically get access to go tour the house themselves. So my assistant is not like going to the house every time somebody needs a tour. She just puts the lockbox on. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so she's an indie. She's an indie. I'd hired her before I moved to Austin, which has worked out great. So we do that and people apply on Zillow. So I could look at those in my desk in Austin if I wanted to, but she does that as well. And she knows my criteria. And then also,
If the contractor does work, he's trustworthy, been working with him for two years. But sometimes if there's miscommunication, having a second set of eyes just reveals that, right? And then you can fix it. So she'll go in, check that out. If he's done work, be my eyes and ears, you know, for checking on that. So you, what is that phrase? You people respect what you inspect, you know, so all's good. It's just good to have that layer in general with anything if you're, if you're having somebody do work, you know, for you and with you.
That's pretty cool. I like that. The idea of having an assistant in market is great. Obviously, that's not going to work for everyone. But if you can figure out a way to make that work, that makes a lot of sense. And I think I would encourage people to think outside the box here. It doesn't necessarily even need to be a full-time employee. Do you have a friend? Do you have a family member who wants to make some extra money, get cut in on a deal? You could probably find a way to make it work. But just having someone you trust does seem like a difference.
So you typically pay a property manager the first month's rent and then a percentage of ongoing rent. So if you're a property manager and you want to go full time in Indianapolis, the first month's rent would be like 1500 bucks. So if you want to make $50,000 a year as a property manager, you need about 40 properties. So your best bet is going to be find somebody with a portfolio of 40 properties and you can just manage all of them.
And once you do that, if somebody has one, two, three rentals, you're not going to give those as much attention even if you have the best intentions because you know that all your bread comes from those 40 properties in the portfolio. And then also the number one
predictor of the return on investment from a rental portfolio is vacancy. And then the number one reason why people don't want to live in their property anymore is because of bad management. Just delayed responses. We know what that looks like.
That's why I chose not to hire a third party property manager, because I just felt like the incentives, if I were the property manager, wouldn't make me focus on these ones E2Z properties. So I chose to do it myself. I also believe you should do things and learn how to do things yourself before you hire someone else to do it. That way you know later if they're doing a good job or not. We hire at my companies not to add capacity, but to remove things from my plate. So basically everything in my company I've done at one point,
And then once I know how to do it, I've got the process written down how to do it. I can hire somebody, come in, take that off my plate, which frees me up to do something else of higher value, something new, something growth oriented. So that's how I've landed on the way I property manage.
And she is a full-time person for me, but the property management's like 10, 20% of what she does. And I always figured if I hit 25 properties at my price point, that could pay for a full-time person that gives that really great care and also less than the traditional property management fee structure. So that's my end goal to get there. Maybe next year. Nice. 2025.
Yeah, it sounds like if you did seven this year, it is seven next year. And I do want to ask about your plan for 2025. So hold that thought. But I did just want to underscore. Yeah, I think this idea about property management and incentive alignment is super important.
You know, like you said, it's not like they're bad people or they're doing something wrong. Like anyone in their position would do this. You would pay the most attention to your biggest client. Every business does this. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I think at least something I've experienced is it changes too. Like sometimes when people are a new property manager will be super hungry. And if you have 10 units with them, you're the biggest client.
And then all of a sudden they go out and good for them. They land, you know, a 50 unit client and all of a sudden you're not that important to them anymore. And so that's I think why in this industry, at least in my experience, when you do have a property manager as I do, you sort of have to cycle through them sometimes and make sure that you're at the same stage of your journey, let's say, and you're sort of like working towards similar goals at that time. All right, time for a break back with more of the BiggerPockets real estate podcast in a few minutes.
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Buy low, sell high. Very easy to say, but not always so easy to do. For example, high interest rates are hurting the real estate market right now. Demand is dropping and prices in a lot of markets are falling, even for many of the best assets.
So it's no wonder the Fundrise flagship fund plans to go on a buying spree expanding its billion dollar real estate portfolio over the next few months. You can add the Fundrise flagship fund to your portfolio in just minutes and with as little as $10 by visiting fundrise.com slash pocket.
Fundrise.com slash pockets. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise flagship fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's perspectives at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. Thanks for sticking with us. Here's more for me and David.
What is the plan for 2025 for you? So in 2025, I'm gonna just keep doing what's working. Why not? I think a lot of people wonder, should I keep buying properties right now or should I wait until the interest rates come down? I was reminded when I was just starting out, I worked for an entrepreneur and his main business was something else. I worked for that company, but he had five rental properties. And he's a big reason why I even got into real estate. He's like, well, if you manage these well and his goal was to retire by 40,
If you manage these well, the stock market goes up and down, but these rentals will always cash flow every single month if you manage them well. And so that was a really compelling reason for me to get into real estate. But I took a look at what was on the market. Nothing would cash flow. I took a look at what he bought. I was like, well, if I bought these eight years ago, I'd be in great shape like you are. So you're so lucky that you were interested eight years ago.
Yeah. And I had to pause, you know, this year I've been posting and social media has been a big passion of mine to learn the skill of important skill for me business-wise. People reached out to me recently and they were like, oh, well, eight years ago, this would have been so easy.
And I was like, dude, I said the same thing when I started eight years ago to my boss who started eight years before me. And so I had to share that. And I was like, listen, the reason is if you look at the Federal Reserve of St. Louis,
They publish these graphs and it's the rent index in the US and the house price index in the US. They have 70 years of history that they've tracked these indexes and the rent one has never gone down. It's literally never gone down. Not even 2008. I was like specifically, it's like, what happened in 2008? It didn't go down. It like stayed the same for like a year and then kept going up. And then the prices.
There's like maybe a one or two year period here and there where it dipped down. But overall, it's the same trend. It's like, it's like almost exponential. And so that would be why I tell people that you should not wait for the interest rates. You should find the good deals that make sense now and then just refinance later if you absolutely need to. But I've found several 1% rule deals
and bird deals this year. You could find a deal in any market. That orthodontist who had a rundown house, did he need to sell because the interest rates were high right now? No, he bought those in cash. It really had nothing to do with that. There's always situations like that that we can help out as investors and make some money at.
Totally. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And yeah, I mean, we'll talk about this on another episode, but yeah, we don't even know how much interest rates are gonna come down. You know, like, everyone's acting like it's- You never do, then maybe they never will. Yeah, exactly. It's just, you're just hoping and guessing. And something you said before, I think is so true. Like, oh, eight years is too long, 10 years is too long. Like, I don't know about for you, man, but it's gone fast for me. Like, I remember
I bought my first deal 15 years ago, and I remember thinking, oh, man, this is going to take a long time to build the portfolio. And in a blink of an eye, you're there. And if you just keep working at it and do it in a disciplined way, it's really not that long. It's a heck of a lot shorter than working at a corporation for 40 years. I'll tell you that.
Yeah. Also, there's another thing that I don't talk about very much because I wonder if people are the same, but if I'm constantly setting a goal to get these rental properties done, if I have money that I'm going to deploy and use that for marketing, use that for buying the property, et cetera, it's like, if I don't have that goal, the money goes elsewhere. It doesn't get saved. It just gets elsewhere. I don't know where it goes, but I spend it as kind of what I'm saying. So that's just
not even an ROI thing. It's just like, man, having the goal is just like a great reason not to waste money.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You always know like if you have an extra dollar or you get a bonus from work or whatever it is, you know, you're, you're putting it towards something rather than, I don't know, I'm probably the same way you just kind of like invent something you want or need. If you have some like money burning a hole in your pocket. So David, this has been awesome. Congrats on your success. I love the update. We are wrapping up the year here 2024 and you obviously know a lot about the real estate market.
Curious if you have any thoughts or things that you're looking out for in the next year in the real estate, residential real estate market that you think our audience should know.
Yeah, I would look for opportunities to use AI in your investing. So for those that do like direct to seller marketing, which I know a portion of the bigger pockets audience definitely does look for ways to use that in your actual like lead generation. And I know we're working on something now where, you know, it can analyze the satellite and the street view to determine what houses have mature trees, what houses are on the corner lots.
what, um, which houses look rundown, et cetera. So like those would be things that if you jump on board earlier, you'll have more of the effectiveness before everyone then eventually is forced to do it and then everyone's doing it. So it's not as effective anymore. Does that make sense?
Oh, totally. It's just the adoption curve. Like you said, markets become efficient over time. If you do what everyone else does, you're just going to get average returns. If you're the average marketer, you are going to get average returns.
if you do more than the average marketer or you do something before the average marketer, that's when you get inefficiencies in a positive way. You get advantages over the market because you have found something that no one else has figured out yet, and that's really where you need to be.
Yeah. And other than that, also in 2025, I think the rents will still go up. And I think the price of homes will still go up. Pretty confident on the rents since I've never seen that graph go down. But even if I'm wrong that if there's a price dip, it's going to come back, right? Those dips only seem to last like two, three years max. And I know in Austin, it's gone down here a little bit, cooled off. But I mean, what do you think about that? The short term, you know, prices that we'll see in 2025.
Yeah, you know, I'm sort of like you. I invest for the long term. I mean, I invest in some flips and stuff, but I'm not. That's not my bread and butter. Yeah. And so to me, when I get nervous, I look at those graphs that you're talking about, like charts in the median home price of the US that go up over time. I think one of the interesting things about 2025 in general is that we've seen
Some of the markets that are the slowest right now have the strongest long-term fundamentals, like Austin's a perfect example of that. I think you look at markets like some of the places in North Carolina or Tampa or Phoenix. A lot of these markets, great job growth, great economic growth, great population growth, but they're slowed down probably because they just grew too fast over the last couple of years. Does that mean they're bad markets? No. It means
you should be careful when you buy there right now because you don't want to catch the falling knife, so to speak. But to me, that means there's probably going to be opportunities in those markets in the next couple of years. But curious what you think. Have you actually invested it all in Austin? No, I just see properties and prices.
People moving to Austin like crazy, which pushes that price up and up and up, right? Because everyone wants to come in with a high-tech salary and buy a house. So that's, I agree with you, maybe a little retraction. It seems like, oh, in the short term, why is this happening? But really, you just gained 50% value of your house the last two years, right? So this is like a retraction of 25%, you're still good overall. But if you time it wrong, if you're in a short-term scenario where you're trying to do a flip, that's when it could be dangerous.
But dude, Indianapolis, a lot of Midwest markets, they're just kind of like a bond. They're just kind of always ticking up. It's from what I've seen. Didn't take big hits in 2008. So do all my investing there. Yeah. I mean, I love the Midwest. I think it's got legs. It's not as sexy as some of these places, but if you're sounds like both of us trying to build this out for a long career, there's a good combination of growth and affordability there that I really like.
Agreed. It's not pure cash flow and it's not pure appreciation, but it's like right in the middle. Yeah. So you get the cash flow, hold the house, pays for itself, then you get the appreciation too. Yeah, the hybrids where it's at, at least for me.
Well, David, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you for sharing the update on your successful bird that congrats again and for sharing your thoughts on the market and some of these tips you have for finding off market deals. Appreciate it. If you want to learn more about David, his company and what he's up to, we'll of course put links to his social media website and all that in the show notes. Thanks again for being here. Thanks, Dave. Great host. Oh, thank you. And thank you all so much for listening. We'll see you next time for the Bigger Pockets podcast.
Thank you all for listening to The Baker Pocket's Real Estate Podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by E&K, copywriting is by Calico Content, and editing is by Exodus Media.
If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing, or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All hosts and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.
