Money is literally a tool. It's not just a safety net. I know that having a safety net is important, but at some point your safety net can become stifling or too thick and keeps you held back. It's not a safety net that you can fall back in and helps you bounce back up. It's a safety net that keeps you stuck.
Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast with your host, Jamila Sufrant, as a money expert who walks her talk. She helps brave juniors like you, get out of debt, save, invest, and build real well. Join her on the journey to launch the financial freedom in 5-4-3-2-1.
If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to JourneyToLaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG jr. or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey.
It includes the top episodes to listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources, and so much more. You can go to journeytolaunch.com slash jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.
Hey, hey, hey, journeyers. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast. I am your host, Jamila Sufron, your chief launch officer. And today will be a solo episode. That means it's just me and you. I'll be talking about a topic that I think is really important because it doesn't get talked about a lot because I think a lot of us in the personal finance space who talk about money, either we skip over this or we don't address the issue because
we assume so many people have the opposite issue. Anyway, I'm going to talk about the issue with over saving. Yes.
saving too much money. Can you believe that? I'm going to talk about that. But I want to talk about this because I've realized that I've seen this in my own journey and in so many journeyers, whether you are friends and family and or people who listen to my podcast and connect and really are not able to progress to the next level or stage of your journey because of this fear of spending your money.
Now i want to go back just a little bit talk a little bit about my savings journey and how it's always been a superpower for me and then when i realize or how i can recognize myself. When the saving mindset that i have is actually working it's counterproductive to some other things i want to do when i started to notice that what i did to change that.
Now I've always been a saver. It's something that wasn't sealed in me through my mom and grandmother. Partly that was because they came here as immigrants didn't have a lot of money. And so when they started to work and have money, they had to have savings. They had to be able to fall back on something. And so it was a concept instilled in me where if I had a dollar, if I was given any money, save some of it. Don't ever spend all of your money. And even when I started working,
As young as 14 years old, shout out to the summer youth program. I started working at 14, so I had a little job every summer since then, and I saved most of my checks. And when I went to college, and I got an internship that paid me money, and it paid me pretty good too. I think I was getting maybe like 12 to 1400 if I can remember every other week, working in the summers at my company.
I would save a majority of that check. And it wasn't because I had a actual goal. I didn't know what I was saving for in those moments. It's not like I had, oh, I want to buy a car or I want to buy a home, not in those moments in college, in high school. I didn't have those specific goals, but because I just had a savings mindset, I just saved. And it was really helpful because even though I didn't know what I was saving for, when the opportunity came,
or an opportunity arose, I was able to take advantage of it. So for example, this was when it came to buying my first apartment right out of college. I had enough money to put down for the down payment. Now my mom did give me money to help me with that first down payment, but I had to come up with the rest.
which was not a little bit of money for a 22 year old, but I had that money saved up. And then when it came time to move into that apartment and pay that mortgage, my check was barely covering the mortgage. And so I had to save up while that apartment was being built. So it was pre-construction. So I had some time once I put the deposit down for the building to be constructed and in turn that really helped because I had a couple of years to save money up. I was working full time, but I was able to save because I knew at that point I need extra money.
To cover all my living expenses so again savings and having this mindset has done wonders for me. It even help further because when i found out about the financial independence retire early movement in my early thirties late twenties will really early thirties. I was already on a path where i had good savings.
And so coming to this concept of people aggressively saving and investing to reach these goals of early retirement, it wasn't, it didn't feel so off-putting to me because I was like, okay, I can do that. It just means I just need to save even more.
So saving again has done so much wonders for me and anyone that I've known that has had that ability to save and not spend money, it's great. But a problem can arise when you have enough saved or have savings and don't spend it and then it impacts your quality of life and how you move through the world. And so I want to talk about that.
Because while there are so many people who do not have enough savings or can maybe follow the advice I'm about to give, not yet at least, I do think it is important to at least address because if you have a true income problem, meaning you do not earn enough money to support your expenses, and that means you can't save for emergencies and when things are not going so well,
then of course, you know, you want to be able to save and be okay. But there are so many journeyers, friends and family who I know listen, and you have good income, you have a savings account. Maybe it's not fully funded. So typically the advice is you save three to six months.
expenses and that would be your emergency fund. And then if you do have bigger goals that you want to achieve, you save for those goals too. And I know a few people where they have savings accounts, they have money, they even have enough money to pay off their credit card debt. But they're not paying it off or they're not making moves with that money to help put them further ahead.
And because of that, that fear of spending money or that fear of not having enough or it's never enough can lead to being able to like miss opportunities that come along, delayed happiness and resentment because you're not enjoying your money. And so because you feel like this journey is just all work, no fun, no enjoyment.
and you don't feel comfortable spending your money, it creates just this resentment to whether it's your job or the situations in your life because, again, money, what's the point of money because you have it and you still can enjoy your life. And I think this habit, whether it's a saving habit or anything that you've developed in your life that has helped you, you have to recognize and be honest when it becomes a limiting belief.
And so sometimes a habit that you've developed a form is amazing. You know, it got you here. It helped save you, but then it prevents you from going there. It prevents you from getting to the next step. And so I look at this as whether it's saving money, it's a great habit to have, but if you don't know how to spend money in the right way, that helps you. It can limit you. I look at this in terms of maybe trust issues.
Maybe you're not someone who is trusting your overly cautious and that has helped you tremendously in your life because no one can fool you. I kind of consider myself like this to where you know you're just like, I just don't trust everyone or trust anyone that has to be earned, but then you can miss out on opportunities to get to know people.
to connect and bond with people money opportunities because you think everyone's trying to scam you so that can be an issue or even the need for control someone who is really needs everything dotted and crossed and has to control everything maybe that has helped you a lot in your life but then you start to see how that breaks down relationships or it's preventing you from getting ahead so all these great things that have protected us
You know quite honestly we needed we needed it to survive as children as young adult and as adults going through this world i always go back to just this idea being independent especially as a woman now but as a girl growing up i've always word as a badge of honor that i can do it myself.
anything I can do or that someone doesn't want to do for me, I'm going to figure out a way to do it. That has helped me tremendously. But it is not something that if you are in relationships with people, I mean, this whole world, everything's built on relationships, whether it's personal, whether it is romantic, family,
career, you need to be able to trust people, or at least trust them enough to work with them, right? And so with that, you can see how if you are someone who's been protecting yourself with these things, whether maybe it's saving, maybe you didn't grow up in a household that had an abundance of money.
So saving was your lifeline. And so coming out of age and having money on your own, it feels uncomfortable because you're afraid what could happen if things don't go well. And that's totally normal. These things that you're feeling or that you've used to get you here were for a reason. So it's not that they're wrong. It's just right now as you are thinking about your journey and where you want to be in your life. And if you were at the stage in your life,
where you recognize it's a problem. So the first step is to kind of recognize where it's holding you back. Then it becomes a level of, okay, how do I begin to adjust? Now that doesn't mean if you recognize that this is something holding you back.
you go out and you spend all your savings or you trust just anybody now and forget your own discernment and intuition. I'm not saying any of that, but is this idea of recognizing it in yourself and then figuring out how can I begin to think differently about this skill set or this armor that I put up and is it serving me and if it's not serving me as much anymore, what are some things that I can do to change it?
So other than the deep rooted things that are preventing you from spending your money, whether it is having just a lack of stability growing up, some cultural issues or issues, but cultural things that some cultures are bigger on saving.
Those are deep rooted things to unpack. But I want to talk about really just understanding practically if you're at a point in which you can begin to spend more and invest more in yourself and what that looks like.
In order to know that, you need to know your enough point. The enough point is this point in your life and in your finances where you know how much you really need to sustain your lifestyle. Now, I know I talk about this in my book, Your Journey to Financial Freedom, that there are different lifestyle levels. I call them quack lifestyle levels and things you like to spend on and the degree in which you spend on.
And so understanding the current lifestyle you're living and the Guac lifestyle levels, they go from one to five, one being the most frugal, five being the most extravagant is that depending on your points right now on your journey, you may need to be living on maybe a Guac
two slash three lifestyle. Meaning you're not spending extravagantly or the way you'd like to in all areas of your life, but you're living pretty good life based on your own desires. So does that mean you're going out to eat and choosing anything on the menu without looking at the price? Maybe not, but you can maybe go out to eat and enjoy life. And so understanding your enough points based on kind of the reasonable, like I'm good with this now,
And that could be any guac level depending on your lifestyle versus like the ultimate. So I like to say, hey, here's kind of like your sustainable lifestyle that feels good. And so for me right now in my life and our journey, that kind of feels like a guac lifestyle three, where if we never made more money or spent more money on certain things, I'd be okay with this life. Like we live a pretty good life.
But ultimately, if we had a lot more money coming in and had more assets or whatever that looked like, maybe I would up my guacal lifestyle level and spend more. So maybe that will look like a guacal level for lifestyle, meaning I am now going to a restaurant and not caring what the bill ultimately is. I can buy what I want.
So understanding what your enough point is, what you're comfortable with and the amount of money that is. So what does that look like for you and your household? And do you have that income coming in to cover those expenses? So understanding what your enough point is is knowing, am I really far from living the lifestyle that I want because I'm not earning enough? Or am I actually I have a sustainable lifestyle?
I can cover my expenses. Do you know that number, that annual or monthly number that you can live on? And do you have the income to support it?
And on top of that is that income, something you can depend on, is it consistent? Is it reliable? Because sometimes we'll have money come in and it's not something that is going to be what we can depend on moving forward. Maybe you're an entrepreneur like me. My income is fluctuates year to year, month to month. So I have to be really careful with how I space out and save money. So when I have high income years or months, I'm saving that money, most of it because I want to be able to
prepare for the low income months and years. That might look different for someone who has, you know, tenure in their job, has been at this job for years and feels like it's pretty safe. You then may have income security.
And again, who knows? I think anyone can be fired from anywhere at this point, especially with what's going on in this economy. But for the most part, you can sustain, you can depend on your income. The other thing to understand if you actually have enough to be able to start spending more is what do your current savings look like? Do you have the traditional three to six months of expenses, mandatory expenses saved up?
Meaning if there was a loss of income, there is an account, a savings account, hopefully a high yield savings account that is able to prepare you or keep you sustained during your maybe loss of income or an emergency phase.
So that's gonna be really important to know before we go to the next part of spending money. You wanna know, okay, do I actually have enough to spend or am I in a position to start spending a little bit of my savings and not just spend, but when I say spend, I mean also invest in myself, in whatever my business, in my education to take me to that next level.
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want to go back a little bit too to maybe where you may be seeing the effects of over saving and how do you even know it's a it's a problem because you may be listening and saying well I don't see it as a problem yet or how do I know it's even something that's affecting me negatively if I'm I'm just I'm fine and I would say that if you find that your relationships
are are strained, not because I mean, again, not because someone wants to go out all the time and you're saying no, that's a boundary. And maybe a relationship you need to reevaluate, but I'm talking about relationships where maybe it is being too frugal to do things that you actually want to do that you can afford to do, but you're not able to experience it with family, friends and loved ones. Maybe it's in your career where there are things that you need to invest in.
education, resources, courses that would help you get to the next level and you're not doing it because you're afraid to spend that money. Maybe it's mental health. Maybe it's spending on the other areas of your life like therapy. Maybe it is spending money on clothes, whatever that looks like.
It can be just extracurricular things that you see you're not spending on and it's time to invest in yourself or invest in getting the outer and inner to a place where that feels good, that then you can move out about in the world with confidence and to be happy.
Also, I find this funny because I definitely do this a lot. I see my over saving and not wanting to spend money in certain areas in the way that I use products, believe it or not. So whether it comes to facial products or face washes and lotion or even hair products, I notice with myself that I don't use a lot whenever I use these things.
And I started to think to myself, you know, it's almost counterproductive because here I am, you know, getting into my skin routine or hair routine. And then I'm using the product, but I'm not even using enough potentially for it to be effective. But, you know, even though the product will take, it will take more time for me to use the product up. And so the product lasts longer.
It's counterproductive because then the product is not working the way it's supposed to because I'm not using enough of it. And I see this also even in clothes. I'm a big saver where I see how I'll see an outfit in my closet. I'm like, I should wear that today. I'm like, I should save it for another time.
I just save it for a time where people, more people will see me or it's, you know, I'm not doing anything that special today. I'll save it. And then outfit never gets worn because there's nothing ever big enough or quote, unquote, important enough for me to wear that outfit too. And I started saying to myself like, wow, like your saving mindset helps you a lot financially. But when it comes to the way you operate personally in your life, like you could actually be spending or in this case, wearing, using the things you have.
Because that's you have it. This is the reason you have it. So I thought that was just interesting because if you also notice this in yourself, this may be a byproduct of an over-saving mindset where it's just counterproductive because you're not able to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Now let's evaluate some of the things that we can start to do as a fellow over-saver.
to maybe change some of this behavior for the better. Now again, I'm not saying that you should run out and spend all of your savings. Absolutely not. And this definitely is not advice that I would give to you if you are struggling to pay off your credit card debt. So if you are getting into credit card debt, your credit card debt is accumulating over time and you're not able to pay it off.
You can still listen because maybe you'll need to use this in the months or years ahead, but this is not necessarily for you at this moment. I'm not talking to someone who does not have consistent income or any savings left or in a savings account, but think about this if this does apply to you. Are you saving out of necessity or fear? Now necessity means I don't have enough saved up. I feel like there may be a gap in my income and I actually need this money in the future.
or is it out of fear because it doesn't matter how much you save up, you still wouldn't feel comfortable and feel secure.
And that's a real thing for people. It doesn't even matter. You can listen to millionaires and people who have a lot of money and they talk about how fearful they are of losing what they have or that it's never enough. And so it's almost like imagine you had all the money right now to solve your problems. And it wasn't necessarily money that's going to consistently replenish, but let's just say you got a million dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars right now and you're able to save a lot of that.
Would you still feel secure? Now you might say, yeah, sure, but I know that there are so many people, it doesn't matter how much money they have, the security will never be there because it's a deeper rooted issue. There's another question to ask yourself, what opportunities are you missing out on because you're afraid to spend money?
And some of these opportunities are not even, you know, I'm not talking about huge investments where you're going to need to replenish your savings by half, but even just spending maybe it's a couple hundred dollars, maybe it's even a thousand dollars or more on something, something that is an opportunity and a risk. It could be a risk because you don't know what will happen from taking this risk, but that the benefits if you've done your research, whether it's a course, whether it's a program,
Whether it is something in your house that will make you feel better, organize your space, what opportunities are you missing out on? Or how are you actually spending more in the long run because you're not able to spend the money that you currently have? So think about any opportunities that you may have missed out on because of that. And then are your saving habits actually aligned with your current goals? Or are they outdated?
This is where doing a reflection on your goals.
often is important because your goals can change. The goals you've set for yourself five years ago, three years ago, even last year may have changed due to your circumstances or just changing your mind on something. I know my goals change consistently and it's kind of funny because when we think about goal setting and planning, you're often asked to look out. Like what are your immediate goals in a year or less?
What are your short-term goals, maybe up to five years? What are your long-term goals? And it's okay to set them, but it's also okay to go back to them and see if they're still appropriate. To see if the number amount that you set or used for that goal is something you still want to keep. Is it something that needs to be increased? Does it need to actually be lowered?
being really thoughtful and not just having a blanket number about a savings goal, but really being really methodical about what is it that I need this money for? Maybe it is to buy a home. And I know that buying homes now is so expensive.
with interest rates and just down payments. I mean, it's always been relatively expensive for people to do, but even more now. But really being realistic about, okay, how much do I need to do that? And how and what timeframe will I be using that money in? Let's talk about a little bit, how to differentiate between smart saving and then over saving.
So this goes back to your goals and knowing what they are, but are you saving with intention? And does it align with the future values and vision that you have for yourself? And having the grace to say, you know, I can change my mind. My values can maybe change. The future me may change, but currently does that align with who I think or where I want to be? It's also really important. Like there is this dance of trusting yourself to make
decisions that are necessary in the moment. And not all the decisions you make will be 100% correct or right or without error. You will make mistakes. I still, I like, I say all the time, I still make mistakes, but I trust myself to be able to
fix whatever issue or mistake I make or to bounce back from that. And so when it comes to that balance of trust of saving versus spending your money, a lot of it I see in people is I don't want to make the wrong decision or choice. I see this a lot in investing. So when I'm talking about over saving, I'm not talking about just going out to spend maybe to buy something that is discretionary. That's fun. Whether it's clothing or a trip,
I'm also talking about your financial goals. I'm talking about investing. I'm talking about so many people leaving money on the table and have chunks of money in their savings account, and they're afraid to put in a high yield savings account.
which is safe. You go to an online savings account that's insured and will give you so much more in terms of interest based than your traditional account, like even just moving your money there. People are afraid to do, again, no judgment, but being afraid to even do that or afraid to max out a Roth IRA or to put more money
In investments and you have such a you have a ton of money sitting in a savings account. It's a disservice to your money because it's losing money in that savings account. So I understand that hesitation because maybe there's a lack of knowledge or trust because you have not done this before. But that is why you know you're listening to this podcast. Hopefully you picked up my book you're ready to financial freedom. You are immersing yourself more in the world where this these concepts are talked about more to help you feel more comfortable.
with taking some risk. Now again, you have to discern what risks are more low risk than high risk and not putting all of your money in a high risk investment, but being able to trust that even when you make these decisions to spend or invest your money and move from just saving to making your money work for you,
that the process, no matter what happens, will work in your favor because of who you are becoming, what you're learning, and what you're doing. Also, when it comes to spending now this money that I'm asking you to think about, I'm talking about intentionally spending it. I'm talking about thinking about it in a way in which like, how does this serve me?
Maybe it's something that you've been looking at for a while now that you wanted to spend money on. And it could be discretionary, it can be a fun item, or it can be a trip, or again, it can be something like investing. But what is the intentional thing that you can do with your money right now that will invest back into your happiness or into your financial freedom goals? I mean, it's really important to reframe your mindset around money. Money is literally a tool.
It's not just a safety net. I know that having a safety net is important, but at some point your safety net can become stifling or too thick and keeps you held back. It's not a safety net that you can like fall back in and helps you bounce back up. It's a safety net that keeps you stuck. So think of it as a tool that will help get you where you need to go. I think being a saver is incredible.
but saving money, it gets you to surviving in this world. It's helpful because you need money, you need money on hand, but it's really the investing your money in investment accounts. So that is your retirement accounts, your taxable accounts. That is an experiences, that is in people, that is in your education and who you are. That is what really helps to get you to the next level. It helps you thrive.
Saving helps you survive. Spending and investing thoughtfully helps you thrive. So I want you to practice gratitude for what you have. Let's say you are a saver. Let's say you're on your way to being a saver. Listen, if you're just saving $5 or $10 a month, you're a saver, okay? But I want you to practice gratitude for what you've done for yourself so far on this journey and know that
what you're doing, even if it's not a lot yet, even if you don't have everything saved up yet, I want you to start thinking of money as that tool and think about how you want to use that tool to get ahead in your life so that you're not just in one place and not making the moves you need to do to get you further on your financial journey. So set new money goals if you haven't already. Think about how can I create my enough point? How do I understand what that enough point is?
Create a plan, maybe it's a three to six month, maybe it's a couple of years to get to that point of saving to get to that enough point fund a savings account. But then think about intentionally, what are you also saving for in terms of experiences? How are you investing your money so that it's growing and not staying stagnant so that way your life expands as you expand as your mindset expands along with your money?
All right, wanna just remind you that saving is just one part of your financial freedom journey. There's so many other layers to it, but I'm not saying this to overwhelm you, especially if you're just beginning, but that this is just one part. And you don't have to get this one part completely right. The ultimate goal of your money, of any money coming into your household, into your bank account is for you to use it as a tool to help you live the life you want.
You get to decide what that life looks like. No one else. You are the author of your own book.
you are the painter of your own canvas. This is your life. And so what that looks like, how you spend your money, how you save it is ultimately up to you. But I do want you to be intentional. And maybe this is a stretch goal. Maybe again, this is not something you can think about now about spending your savings and how to enjoy more of your money now because you're in the beginning stages and you got to get it out the mud.
Maybe it's about paying off debt for you right now. Maybe you don't have consistent income, but I want you to look at these things as like there is hope beyond the hills about like over the rainbow. There is hope that not everything is a struggle. You can get to the point where you have too much saved and now you need to spend it. That's a first world problem to have.
So I want you to challenge yourself. I want you to reflect on how saving has helped you up to this point. Maybe you need to do more of it, but maybe at this point in your life or at this point in your journey, it's now time to switch and think about how saving is the now can be used as a springboard to help you get to that next level. How does spending and investing look for you at this point? Are you doing it enough? And how can you do it more to get to where you want to be? All right, juniors.
Remember, you can follow me at Journey to Launch or at Jamila Sufron on Instagram. I am on Facebook also and Twitter at Journey to Launch. If this episode has helped you, maybe it gave you something new to think about, please screenshot it and share it with me, tag me on social media. And also send it to a family member or friend. I always say, listen, the podcast only grows when people share it. And if you are enjoying this content, you know, someone else in your life needs to hear it. Wherever you listen to this,
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