Episode 399: Ben Greenfield on Biohacking vs. Simplicity: The Future of Longevity for Body, Mind and Spirit

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crash it. All right, you guys, we have the one and only Ben Greenfeld on Feldfeld. Feldfeld. Feldfeld. Feldfeld. I think Feld does sound pretty cool. I need to go buy that, like a spy. I thought it was Grand Prix. In World War II, going into Kilhittler, Ben Greenfeld. Yeah, but you don't even do this. It's my new identity. Wow. That could be your alter ego.

We could just do a whole podcast about how we would assassinate Hitler. I would love that. Well, he's not. Well, you know, the whole theory about that is like a butterfly effect. And if somebody had killed him, somebody worse might have come up in his stead or, you know, because there's, there's a whole moral philosophical argument of like, is murder wrong? And would you, if so, would you go back in time? And if you had the opportunity to kill Hitler when he was a baby and there's a really weird way to start a podcast talking about how we could kill Hitler, but my name was Greenfeld.

You have a lot of energy drinks here. A lot of just drinks in general. Well, first of all, that's actually, I don't know where you got that one from. You're a refrigerator. Oh, okay. I don't know what that is. We usually start this podcast with these magic mind shots, and I'm sure you've had a million of them before, have you not?

I always look at the ingredient label. Well, I got lots of stuff in front of me. This is a protein drink. This is slate protein drinks. Have you not? You don't know about this? No. I thought you know about everything. No, I live in a cave slash do have a lot of stuff in my mini fridge in the garage, but some of this stuff just slips me by. I always like to look at the ingredient label though, like this one.

caramel latte, because a lot of people see the stuff that they're told to tell. Hopefully, I don't throw any of your sponsors under the bus talking about this. No, you can't. Actually, this is one of these companies that I drink at least one a day and I like it. But so you tell me what you think. Okay. So this one, when you look at the ingredient label, it's brewed coffee.

water and coffee. So the only thing I think about there when I'm looking at cans and ingredients is do they filter the water? Or do they look at the aluminum lining of the can? Have they assisted for microplastics, et cetera? Yeah. And sometimes that's not on the label. So you literally have to ask. Like I, you're not really popular company Zevia. Yeah, of course. That's not artificially sweet. Stevia, sweet and soda.

I interviewed their CEO years ago, and that was one of the first questions I asked was, do you guys pay attention to the cans? Yeah. Because you can have a super healthy drink and then just screw it up by putting it in the wrong delivery mechanism. He was like, yeah, we go aluminum free and we tested for metals. And I thought that was cool considering you can find it like Safeway or Rosar's or whatever, which a lot of times means they would be cutting corners. So you don't know about the can. But what would he say? He said he was clean. But yeah, but it was it's an aluminum can.

It is, but you can have some kind of liner inside the can that keeps the metals from leaching. Could you actually prove that they do that though?

You could do a third party independent test on the can itself if you wanted to. Right. But you never did that. I didn't do it. I did take him out of his word, but I think he's lying a podcast that says a little because I could blow up in your face or somebody actually test it later on. So they've got brood coffee, unfiltered skim milk. And when you look at, this is one of the, the terms that I sometimes don't like in the health industry, lean protein, right? Cause you hear about,

Eggs for example right if you eat just egg whites you get a huge dose of elbium in the protein egg whites and many people have an inflammatory response to just eating egg whites when you look at eggs is natures perfectly packaged protein that include. The fat soluble vitamins which also can help out with the vitamin absorption with the protein absorption etc then you've got a little bit more of a cleaner profile so there's the idea of like.

in the health industry, lean chicken breast. I'm like, no, you get a lot of the fat soluble vitamins and the good stuff and even more of the collagen from the gristle, from the bones, from the skin. So if I make chicken, yeah, it's going to be more calories if you eat the skin and have the oils and everything on there, but you're arguably getting more nutrient density and better health long-term versus separating the proteins from the fats.

Right. So this is why. So again, this happened last time. So even we haven't even started. I have a great idea. We're only two ingredients into the label of one drink. But I love this because we can rabbit holes. We go. It's crazy. Okay. So you're saying let's get with it. Say with the egg. So then people, if they just eat the egg whites, they can have a bigger allergic reaction or an intolerance than if they have the egg whites and the yolk together because you need that extra fat and whatever, all the other minerals and nutrients to counterbalance.

the egg white. Because I was going to say that I feel like I've gathered or my body, I've been eating eggs every single day for 25 years, that I now feel like I become allergic or I have an intolerance. But I do eat the yolk.

Now it is true that when you get one of these food allergy tests, a lot of times foods that are staples in your diet can end up giving almost like a false positive that you're allergic to them. And it's because your body is doing a really good job creating antibodies to certain proteins in those foods. So it flags as a high antibody response, even though you're not actually allergic. So if I look at the results of somebody's food allergy test or food intolerance test and it says, Hey, if like red on eggs, you must be allergic to eggs.

I asked them, well, you're eating eggs every day because a lot of times that can cause it to be elevated. That doesn't mean that if you're eating eggs every day and you feel like crap, you're not sleeping well, you have gas or bloating or poor energy levels or whatever, and you cut the eggs out and those symptoms go away. Maybe you actually were allergic to eggs, but anything that flags on a food allergy profile as an issue, that is also a staple in your diet. First, make sure that it's not just because you've been having a lot of it.

And then to that, does that mean you shouldn't be eating the same thing over and over and over again just because it can act as an intolerance or an allergic reaction for you? That is something that would fall into the category of dietary diversity, meaning that the more myopic you are about eating just a select group of foods, the less dietary diversity you will have.

So the less diverse your microbiome become right which can create this vicious feedback loop because by eliminating foods constantly and going gluten free and lectin free and then low fiber and then low fat map beginning to get rid of all these foods your bio becomes weaker and weaker and you paradoxically become.

less and less able to be able to digest a wide variety of foods. So the idea of eating the same thing day in and day out, if that also means that you've got low dietary diversity, and the answer is yes, that can create problems long term because you're essentially starving off your bacteria. But if you were, say, eating eggs every day, and you were also, like you hear a lot of these blue zones doing, eating a lot of different herbs and spices and plants.

and fruits and a wide variety of meats and eating seasonally, meaning there are certain periods of the year where you're not eating certain things and paying the jet fuel to fly the avocados and the coconuts in an environment where you normally wouldn't have access to that stuff, then that's where you can also create an issue, right? Low amount of seasonal eating, low amount of dietary diversity, eating the same things over and over again, which seems easy and convenient, but isn't great for keeping the biome healthy.

That's so true. Basically, in the fitness world, it's all about if you stay to eat in the same things, that will optimize your chance of staying within a certain weight, certain body composition, all the things. But it can actually work very much in reverse for your actual health and microbiome.

It's true that if you have a predictable set of meals, I have my yogurt with my berries in the morning and I got my lean protein on my whole grain sandwich for lunch and eat the same thing for dinner. If you're trying to count and control calories, that makes it very simple and also makes it more likely that you're going to have fewer types of foods around the house because one of the things that dietary diversity can cause is the more access to foods that you have, the more calories you're likely to eat.

Like if you walk up to like a superfood salad bar and there's like 20 different things walnuts and pecans and avocados and salsa and mushrooms and two different kinds of all you're going to load up the plate in the cases and wind up with way more food than you normally it was buffet syndrome on the flip side. If you're limiting your dietary diversity so that you do a good job following a diet,

Yes, it could be good for weight loss and calorie control, but that is not synonymous with good health and high micronutrient and vitamin and mineral intake. So I think a part of it does come down to like self control. If I'm going to have 20 different types of fermented foods and yogurts and super foods and chlorella and bee pollen and dark chocolate and pastured eggs and three different kinds of meat and all this stuff in my pantry and my fridge, which I do because I love the idea of dietary diversity.

It also means you're either injecting a GLP one, so you're controlling your appetite, or you're actually just oxygen and aware, which isn't that like if you're writing it down anyways, you're using an app like chronometer or some other calorie counting app to keep track, then it makes it a lot easier. So I think you can have your cake and eat it too. Cake in this case being dietary diversity combined with monitoring the amount of calories that you consume, but it does take more mindfulness. I think mindfulness is good.

It is, and I think, but I do think self-control is the most difficult thing in the world, right? We can all know, I think most of us at this point in life, especially with all the information overload, we know what to do. We've heard it all. We just don't have the self-control and the discipline to actually execute on it. That's where we get stuck. Yeah, and so zempic.

But you can look at it like with exercise, right? So let's take a trendy workout right now, like the 12, 330, right? Walk at a 12% incline on a treadmill in three miles per hour for 30 minutes and you're going to see huge, you know, drops in weight loss or increases in aerobic fitness, et cetera, which is kind of true.

But if similar to the diet, your exercise program consists of you doing the same thing every day because it just makes it easy for you. And that's what you're most likely to do. Yeah, it's better than nothing, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you're going to be more fit than the person who's like.

Working with the trainer or doing their own research to switch things up every week and one week you're doing kettlebells and maybe the twelve three thirty in the next week you're doing a high intensity interval training set on the airline and super slow training and the next week you're traveling so you're doing like.

BFR training and cold plunges and the more you can mix it up, the more you throw at your body, the harder it becomes to kill or the more fitness you see. So you see the better microbial fitness or gut fitness by throwing a lot of different foods at your body. And if you look at

things like an increase in the surge of gluten intolerance or so-called gluten allergies or peanut intolerance. A lot of that is due to heavy restriction of those compounds, especially to kids at an early age, so they don't build up the ability.

the microbiome based ability to produce the enzymes that can help to digest those foods. So this is why if you go gluten free for really long time and then you have gluten, it's way worse than having gluten back when you weren't gluten free, or when you feed a kid who's never been exposed to peanuts at two years old, a bunch of peanuts or peanut butter and they have this anaphylactic reaction.

It's far less likely that they would have had that if they would have had mild exposure to peanuts. Totally agree. And by the way, I know we're only two ingredients in and we're not eating. Oh, we'll get there. It's going to be a long time. I won't forget. I know you won't. So what do you think about the fact of when you do high intensity workouts and exercise, when I do it anyway, my appetite goes through the roof. I eat five times the amount of calories because I'm ravenous and hungry.

So isn't it a better strategy than to do like the 1233 that we just said, or any kind of lower impact or lower intensity exercise? Because then you're able to control your appetite just on a weight loss, fat loss level. Let's not talk about all the other things, but just on that, because that's what I find. I find cardio at a high intensity, you end up gaining weight because you're starving.

There is what's called a compensatory mechanism that kicks in post-exercise. That compensatory mechanism is of exercise and I'm hungry. There's two reasons that that could happen. So there's two different things we need to consider here.

The first is pretty straightforward. I've brought more calories. I've been more glycolytic because I'm doing high intensity interval training or weight training, not just a walk on the beach. I've subtracted more carbohydrates from my muscles or my liver. My body's naturally going to tell me that those need to be refilled because carbohydrates are good for brain fuel and for thyroid activity and for the joints and for the endocrine system. There's all sorts of messages your body begins to tell you that are crave-like messages when you've

depleted a bunch of carbohydrates from your body for good reason. This is why a strict ketogenic diet could be good for managing epilepsy or Alzheimer's, but long-term can cause some issues to your testosterone, your estrogen, your thyroid, your joints, et cetera, because there's just not enough glucose around.

It can't make glucose out of fats. So when you finish a hard workout and you're getting these cravings to eat because A, you've burnt through a lot of calories and your body needs more calories or you've burnt through a lot of carbohydrates and your body needs to refill those or both. That's a natural urge and you shouldn't necessarily resist that urge.

Because in my opinion, it's healthier to be strong and fast and have a high VO2 max and good grip strength and good lactic acid tolerance and lots of mitochondria and be eating more food to fuel all that goodness versus doing the same thing day in day out because it doesn't make you hungry and eating less food, right? I'd rather be strong and fast and fit and also eat more calories than do the same thing day in day out and just restrict my calories

Right, but let's say running versus walking, like running versus incline walking. Do you think that the walk, would you say that it's good to do a combination of both or that doing the incline walk is better? Because you're maintaining muscle mass, you're not breaking it down and all those things.

The idea of fitness does need to be considered in terms of a blueprint for the body. I'll explain what I mean by that. But before I do, I didn't address the second reason that you might get hungry after you do a hard workout. To me, that's the more concerning reason.

It is the train to eat, eat to train type of phenomenon where either A, you're exercising so that you can stuff your face later, not so that you can get fitter. So the only goal of exercise is to burn as many calories as possible. So you can enjoy your, whatever, $25 smoothie or pizza, whatever it is that makes you happy because you're addicted to food. And the only way that you can be addicted to food without becoming morbidly obese or having some metabolic disease is to exercise your butt off, right? And so then we get into the whole realm of like exercise anorexia.

The huge thing. In a similar vein, we also will finish a hard workout many times and feel like we need a reward. That reward is not necessarily due to the calorie burn because some people will just go face stuff on a huge breakfast after doing 50 burpees. I did the 50 and the 50 burpees doesn't burn a ton of calories. You have to walk like an hour to even burn.

No, but people will say, hey, I did the hard thing. I'm going to reward myself with food. So using food as a reward or as something that allows you to get that dopaminergic rush and not as something that you'd be using to refill the body and restore nutrients and vitamins and minerals.

that can be an issue. And that's a more concerning issue. And that's where we get into the willpower of self control component. And in my opinion, the best way to manage that is what gets measured gets managed, right? That's where you take photos of your food and upload them to the new GPT image recognition technology, like GPT for all where it'll just tell you, you know, on your own notes app or whatever, how many calories that you're eating based on image recognition of that food.

or using an app or website like a chronometer or macro factors to actually keep track and some of my clients who i work with they won't follow the diet adequately that i have written down for them based on their labs their blood work and their activity levels and everything unless they know i'm gonna be looking at their diet at the end of the week and if they write it down then they can't really diet and they're less likely to do that second compensatory mechanism from exercise which is just like,

Eat a bunch of food just because you're rewarding yourself for having exercise and not necessarily considering the calorie intake versus the actual calorie burn right so that gpt thing that you will not do what did you say that thing was that people can use to because i've been using or people i know the best one i've heard of is fitness pal to do all that stuff this one better in terms of like it gets easier.

Using GPT to to count your calories to tell you what it is that you're eating is not a diet or calorie counting app per se. It's just you literally going into jeep. So you if you want to get super fancy, you could use something like fitness pal or something like that. Okay.

Some of them have image recognition technology built into them now to where you can photograph your food rather than because it is a pain to write it all down sometimes. I'm going to the chains make I had three ounces I had six ounces it's so front like eventually it's just like to do all the little nuance things those are annoying so you're saying going to GPT now you can actually scan your food in the chat GPT.

GPT-40 is the new version that has image recognition capabilities. Same thing with the Google Notebook that you were doing an Instagram story before we started recording. I told people, hey, use the new Google Notebook LM to take your notes. A couple of cool things. I was out hunting about three weeks ago, and before I went out, I found one of my water filters that I was going to take out there with me.

And there were pieces missing. I tell there are pieces missing because there was like a tube that was supposed to come out of it and then a clamp on the end of that. So I took a picture of it and I uploaded it to GPT 4.0. I said, tell me what is missing from this water filter. Tell me the brand. Tell me where I can go download the manual and tell me where I can get the missing pieces.

And i know people who are even doing things like working on their car engine and taking photographs using their phone and then uploading that to four oh and it's telling them what needs fixing or where they can get certain parts which is pretty cool so you could literally take a picture breakfast lunch and dinner and you could say like hey i want to.

protein carb fat ratio of 30%, 40%, 30%. And I want to know if this meal is hitting that and I want to know what my total calorie count the rest of this day is going to be based on this photo. I just sent you of the breakfast that I just ate and it will tell you all of that stuff.

The other one, the notebook, what that will do is you can feed any PDF, any text, any, you know, I've even fed things like legal contracts into it. And here's an example. Let's say you have a big sticky legal contract or scientific document and you just don't have the time to take the deep dive into it and roll up your sleeves and interpret it all.

have smoke come out your ears trying to read through this thing you can upload the document into notebook lm and not only can you tell it to create like a user guide or study summary or anything else that's super palatable for you based on what you uploaded but there's even an audio function and i can upload i did this a couple of weeks ago i uploaded a DNA test that one of my clients got and i told it to generate a discussion

between two people about that person and what it is that they saw on that DNA test that could help that person improve and it created like a mini podcast of two AI people who sounded very much like humans having a nice friendly chat about my clients gene results.

And so if I'm going for a walk and I've got it, let's say a consultation call coming up with that client, I can listen to the AI talking about my client, filling me in on what was going on in a way that could be way easier to understand than digging through the whole gene test. And that's all just based on PDF or image recognition technology. It's pretty cool. Wow. We are living in convenient times. And I mean, don't get wrong, you still got to double check and make sure AI didn't make mistakes because occasionally it will still do things wrong, but it's still, it's pretty convenient.

That's amazing. So like, you fascinate me. I tell you this. I keep on repeating myself. I know I sound like a broker record, but you do. Like I, you meet a lot of people in this world in this business, but you always have fascinated me from the minute I even like knew who you were because of all the, like, cause you're not a doctor. You're not like, you're just like, you're just some guy who has an insane amount of memory and the ability to take information and retain literally everything that you've ever seen. Like saw,

Red like your brain is like it's like it's like a computer like how do you give it all that information in there. I don't think it is like a computer. I think it's more like the Arthur Conan Doyle character Sherlock Holmes who says the Watson at one point early in the book when they first meet. He says something like after Watson tells him his name Watson's name he says I'm going to forget that.

And wants to says why and he says because the more things i have rolling around clunking inside my head, the less i'm likely to be able to do a good job being a detective and sleuthing because i just want a clear mind so i don't like to have my head jumbled around facts. So there's two things that i do the first is i keep a very clear head.

Meaning I will tend to to ruminate on things think about things wake up at two a.m. I have notes apps all over my phone with all of the little notes that I take right away to get them off of my plate and out of my head. So it's basically the idea of an ever living journal that goes along with you wherever you go for me all through college it was like little paper journals that I keep in my pocket.

Now it's just the notes app on my phone. So I'm constantly keeping a clear head. So I'm not sitting here during this podcast, trying to remember those three things that I promised, you know, three other people that I do later on today. You put it right down. All those little things start to gum up the subconscious. So I put, I write everything down so I keep very good notes on everything. And then second, I focus a lot on my category, right, which is health, fitness, longevity, biohacking, nutrition, whatever.

And because I've been in the sector for like 20 years now, a big part of it too is just once you start seeing the same things over and over again, reading the same things over and over again, it's like grooving that part of your brain to where you ask me about politics or crypto or anything like that. I'm going to be a complete idiot. But because I spend a lot of time immersed in health and fitness, it's almost like osmosis, long term osmosis.

So there's something to be said for like, if you're a young person getting a career or something like really rolling up your sleeves and telling yourself, hey, I'm going to be a pro in like 20 years. And I'm just going to stick at this every day and learn as much as I can if you really want to become like an expert in your field. So a big part of just not jumping around too much.

But and you've been like, but it kind of, I feel like it's evolved. Like what did you start? When you first started 20 years ago, what were you doing? Were you a trainer, like a personal trainer? Were you like a physical trainer? That way you did? Was it the other thing you did? Yeah. So I realized I still owe you an answer about the exercise blueprint piece. Yes. I'll come back to that. Do you write down in your Google notebook or? No, I've got it in my head.

Just don't let too many things train wreck in my head. I have a few other things. Exercise. We still got to finish these drinks. Yeah, the ingredients. But I'll tell you how I got into this first. I was not interested in exercise or fitness or physical sciences at all for the early majority of my life.

I was homeschooled in North Idaho. K through 12 had very strict parents, didn't get out much, played violin for 13 years. I was president of the chess club. I like would sit in my room and read fantasy fiction and write tales about princesses and orcs and dragons. I was a total nerd. I got into tennis when I was 14. And I, for some reason, I was just really good with the rack in my hand.

and wound up playing for the local high school teams, playing for the USDA, the United States Tennis Association, got really good, got really high ranking, wound up walking on to the college tennis team. Wow. And I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to major in at the time. Which college, by the way.

lc sc lewis clerk state college in a college in in lewis and i don't know transfer to university about how. I had started like eating healthy after being on a standard american diet most my childhood like fast food hamburgers and take a big pizza macaroni cheese and standard american diet yeah.

And I had gotten interested in fitness, like running up and down the hills behind my house and I got my first little pair of 10 pound dumbbells from the supporting goods place down the road. So I'd also started training and paying more attention to my diet. So I was getting somewhat interested in this whole realm. And then like, you know, three quarters of the student athletes at college, they were kinesiology or exercise science majors. So I was like, what the heck? I'll, I'll declare this as a major.

And even though I got very little exposure to that during my largely classical Christian, almost calling education that didn't really have much of a focus in the physical sciences at all, I fell in love with all that stuff. Anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, biomechanics, organic chemistry, all of the science, like the hard science stuff, I loved it and that surprised me. But I wound up getting so in love with that that I went pre-med.

I took the MCATs. I actually did get accepted to six different medical schools and opted not to go to medical school. But all during college, I worked as a personal trainer. I worked as a nutritionist. I helped to manage the Wellness Center at University of Idaho. So I was immersed in this all through college. And then I got a job in hip and knee surgical sales after I got my master's degree in exercise physiology and biomechanics.

Oh, so you have a master's in it. So you have an education backing. It wasn't just like a human being. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. A pretty large amount of education in this is a background. But the reason that I took that job and hip and knee surgical sales was there were two MDPHD programs. One at Duke and one at UPenn that I did not get into that I really wanted to get into. So I thought, well, I'm going to go work in the private sector for a while and see if I can

Have a better resume for applying to medical school because my MCAT scores were good, but I just You know, I don't want to I want to say anything offensive I guess is it like a young white male at the time I had kind of an uphill battle to get into some of the schools that I really wanted that's not the yeah That does play role so you didn't get into the school that you wanted so you went Yeah, that's why and stories you want Duke which we're gonna do for you pen Yeah, I was super interested in both of those because I wanted to do medicine and research okay

And I got nine months into that job and hit any surgical sales and I hated it. I hated being in hospitals. None of the doctors seem to enjoy their lives or their existence. Nobody told me it would be a good idea for me to go to medical school. I missed fitness. I missed nutrition.

I didn't like standing there with a laser pointer showing how North to peak surgeon had like put $40,000 overpriced knee and hip implants and the people who would have been better served through exercise and dietary interventions. And one day I just quit and I walked into the gym across the street from the condo. I was living in Liberty Lake Washington and asked for a job at the Liberty Lake Athletic Club and I got hired as the fitness manager there. And I had a good resume at the time just because, you know, I was loaded up with everything I've done in college.

And long story short is a year into that and managing their fitness center. I met up with a doctor who is interested in creating a one stop shop for sports medicine, where you have chiropractors and massage therapists and physical therapists, and I was going to be the director of sports performance, which I was super excited. And so we opened this center.

And I operated that for five years. And during that time, I got voted as America's top personal trainer. This was in 2008. You did? Was there even a... Who even did that? The National Strength Condition Association, which is the Creme de la Creme personal training search for you at this. What's it called?

So how did they even know? How did they even know you was nominated by a bunch of the local physicians because of the work we were doing with the government's exercises medicine initiative. So we were taking a lot of the patients and transforming them in our facility because we had like the best of the best stuff. We were doing blood analysis, calorimetry analysis, VOT through max analysis, high speed video cameras, blood work, nutrition, coaching, testing. Like I had a, like this was way before all these fancy biohacking facilities, but

Yeah. I was kind of like early adopter of a lot of that stuff. And so that's what kind of thrust me into the limelight, that 2008 nomination. And that's when I started doing more podcasting and writing and more online coaching and advising and investing in a lot of what I do now. But that's kind of like long story short, my journey of, you know, nerded out homeschooler in the backwards, Idaho, right? Really, you know, starting a big health and fitness business.

So then, so basically 2008, when things started to really take off for you, when Instagram started, when the social media becomes something, what year? No clue. Well, I mean, when I started my podcast, there was maybe a hundred podcast tops and like five in the health and fitness category. There was like, you had like code your RSS feed and submit it to Apple and wait two weeks. And if it was over like a hundred megabytes or something like that, it would break. And it was, it was wild, wild west of podcasting.

That's crazy. And then now, okay, are you shocked? In the area of biohacking, I feel like you're most known for the biohacking stuff, right? Are you shocked at how popular you became in that world or you're not really shocked?

The majority of my following for years was the triathlon and endurance sports world. I raced iron and then I did the world championships in Hawaii six times. I coached. I had clients all over the world. I was repped by a Wetsuit company and a shoe company and a bike company and race for Team Time X. I was actually kind of like a big name in the triathlon world. I can durans and like high

So I wrote like marathoning manuals and a lot of my early books for about triathlon training. And when I got out of triathlon, just because I got burnt out on that sport, I kind of just started to shift into what got me out of triathlon in the first place, right? Like burnt out, working out the wrong way, healthy on the outside, but not healthy on the inside, started doing blood work and biomarker valuations and realized, hey, there's a lot more to being healthy and living a long time than just exercising your butt off.

eating lean protein and egg whites. That's what got me down the road of looking into what functional medicine is in naturopathic medicine and biohacking and recovery modalities and self-quantification and all the things that I think now, if you piece them all together, can allow you to be a really well-functioning person without just taking the exercise in there.

nutrition box. Right. So basically how now I understand more. So you kind of were really into the high performance fitness world. And then as you kind of got older and as your career kind of evolved, you kind of then got into more of the longevity stuff or like from

No, because actually went from high performance, how to train really hard, how to train really, how to perfect the training. Then you got into like a lot of the crazy stuff. Like that's when I kind of recognized who you were. You were like trying out all sorts of wack-a-doo things. Math, wing, blue, and laser lights and coffee animals. Yeah.

And part of it, too, is you just learn. And you tried everything. My podcast, for the longest time, was strictly a Q&A podcast. So I went from answering questions about how do I bench press or how do I run a 5K to, well, I've already answered those questions in episode number 82 or 80. So I'm going to answer this question about which side do you lay on when you do a coffee enema?

and I've never done one, so I better go do these and figure out and apply to the question, because it's almost like my audience kept me evolving by asking all these weird questions. That makes sense. And as podcasts got bigger and bigger and the information era blew in, now there's all these different biohackers and fitness enthusiasts, and I still would get and do get asked, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? So it's like a constant evolution of not really trying to be weird or attention grabbing

but almost winding up doing that organically by replying to a bunch of weird viral questions like the 12, 3, 30 treadmill workout or whatever. And it's fine, but then I feel like you kind of like hit like you're doing a lot of that for a while. And then like you kind of like leveled out. And now talking to you, even recently, you see much more and don't don't be offended, but as it is in a nice way, but more normal, like you're more of a normal guy who does normal, like you are really fit, but you're not like as

intensely crazy about all the extreme extreme as you were maybe three or four years ago. Is that accurate? It depends on your definition of extreme. I mean, I'm definitely not like, is I was racing Spartan races and doing Iron Man's, the body, like all that crazy extreme stuff. That wasn't what I'm talking about. I don't do that anymore. I think probably though, you know, because I still get, you know, hired to shoot videos for people or, you know, to

whatever, you know, do methylene, blue tongue sticking out shots or whatever. And so there is a certain extent where like if you're an influencer, if you're in social media, or if you're trying to be a pattern interrupt, you do have to step outside the box a little bit. Not totally talking head.

Totally. And you do all that. But what I mean is there was a big chunk of time where I would scroll and see, you would never be just, it would always be something unusual. And then I think I met you really at the biohacking conference in London.

Do you remember with that one? And I remember like when people, when you weren't talking to people, I was like, Oh, where's Ben? I wanted to ask you a question. You were like behind the stage. You had your legs up. You had this thing on your head. You were like getting into like everything. Like I felt like every second of your day was accounted for doing something that would be beneficial to you. I don't like to waste time. Yeah. I like like that Oliver Bergman book, 4,000 weeks that you have 4,000 weeks to live up.

I don't grasp at straws. I mean, I just told you I'm a Christian. I believe I'm going to live forever in eternity, and so I'm not trying to do it all in this life. But I also don't like to waste time. I can't even sit through a movie. You're not interested in small talk. It's everything with you is like every moment is accounted for.

What even right now like I'm self-conscious that like I just opening the kimono like two minutes ago I started thinking have I told the audience anything like in the past five minutes besides talking about myself and so I'll start thinking that way because I'm like I don't want to waste their time. You know, we didn't talk about sitting in his bed in Idaho reading fantasy fiction.

No, but I actually don't think it's I think people are would be curious like how how you became so intensely like just knowledgeable to like such a crazy level like I know if I ask you there's nothing really under the son of health or fitness you may not you'll always give an answer that is.

way more detailed than anybody I've ever talked to in my life ever. It's, that's why I, and you may, it's maybe your opinion me, but people don't agree with you, but at least like there's like, I know that it was, there's something that you either read about it, thought about it, tried, like you have an experience with it.

So like, and by the way, you've given everybody, I'm still taking my notes. Okay. So now I understand how the evolution is. These guys came to give us an IV, by the way. So let them like put us into like that. Have you ever gotten hooked up to an IV while you're recording podcasts? No. Try to keep conversation flow. No, this will be, this should be interesting. I've done it before. The only part that, that sucks is if they miss a vein or something and then they start poking you and that'll be really uncomfortable. I hope they're good. Yeah. Should we usher them in?

Yeah, let's try. I mean, this is because of you, by the way, we're going to be getting the, I think we're going to be N.R. Naijin IV, which is like for Naijin. Have you had it before? Yeah. Long story short is you and I were both at an event for founders and executives and entrepreneurs called founder land, and they were doing IVs there. And I met one of the doctors at the afterparty.

And I told her at some point, we were doing this podcast. I said, we should get an IV during the show. And then it just happened. And next thing, you know, I've actually, I think I, well, I got this IV one time before. It's like the NADIB, but it's like, it's a bit easier. It's like a tenamite riboside to get less of like a flushing reaction. And you've got doesn't flip and it's better absorption and it's shorter with arguably very similar effects on things like sleep deprivation and energy and mitochondrial health. So.

Well, you should be a spokesperson. I don't know. How long does it actually last in your body, though, to get an NR? I don't know what the half light is. Do you believe in, like, do you get a lot of IVs? Are you like an IV person? Are they coming in or? Okay. Cool. Yeah. I got a stem cell IV yesterday. Yesterday? Yeah. Where at here? Joy Kong's office up in Malibu. Really? Are you able to get this many IVs and be okay?

We'll find out if any, if any veins bust open. Oh my God. I think I'll be okay. We're kind of, excess IVs can cause scarring of the vasculature if the needles are repeatedly placed in the same location over and over again. But the idea of like, if you're using a different, you know, delivery portal, there's no reason that you can't get like stem cells one day and NAD one day and a multivitamin cocktail the next day.

So, isn't also, aren't these IVs really good for brain like cognition and focus and brain? And are ones? Yeah. Yeah. And also for the mitochondrial. Yeah. As a matter of fact, my favorite stack for sleep deprivation is NRNAD or NMN, which are all just like...

NAD precursors and creatine, because when your sleep deprived, two things happen. You get less ATP in the brain and the creatine, the phosphogen and creatine can help to replenish that. And then the NAD assists with the cellular repair mechanisms that should have occurred when you're sleep deprived. And so, yeah, I mean, coffee and energy, drink, all that stuff and kind of bandage sleep deprivation. Right.

Using about 10 higher, higher than what you use for strength and power, like 10 to 20 grams of creatine a day. And that will give you disaster pants if you take it all at once. So you can do like four or five gram portions spread throughout the day. If you're sleep deprived, I wouldn't, you don't need to do this every day. And then NAD, IV patch oral capsule. Okay, wait. So that's a good, that's actually a good clip. Fantastic for sleep deprivation.

Okay, so say that one more time because I want to, I want to make sure people get that. So if you are sleep deprived, here is a cocktail that you should do that's very effective. Go ahead and say it against the NR. If you're sleep deprived, then.

coffee, five hour energy green tea with like all these central nervous system stimulus can count like short term, Jackie up, but NAD combined with creatine. That stack is incredible because it helps to simulate a lot of what you would have gotten during sleep, ATP restoration in the brain and cellular repair mechanisms. Okay, this is my question. Can you take NAD? If I just took like a trinogen supplement and a creatine, creatine scoop, that would work.

Couple capsules, although I recommend more than you'd usually take. So you take like four capsules of like the true nitrogen, and then you do 20 grams of the creatine. But you split that into four or five gram portions throughout the day. Get that below you to take that much creatine. That's why you wouldn't want to do it every day. But you also shouldn't be sleep deprived every day. That's true. That's a deeper issue to address.

Are you not wearing any trackers anymore because of all the EMF? I wear this ring. Oh, you do. Yeah. I wear a ring. Rings don't produce an appreciable amount of EMF. Yeah. Like a Class III Bluetooth signal is not big. Like maybe if you had it next to your head, like an air pod inside your ear all the time, some people say it affects red blood cell flow and can cause clumping or, you know, heating of tissue, but Bluetooth is way

less important of a fish to fry compared to like Wi-Fi and radio frequencies from phones, etc. So I use a cheapo actually just replaced it. My last one pooped out after six years, but he's a cheapo like $30 Timex watch and ring and a blood glucose monitor.

Also, you do wear the blood. I do wear a blood glucose monitor. Why? Not because I don't know by this point. After using one for two years, what doesn't does not spike my blood glucose, but just because what gets measured gets managed. I'm less likely to like blow through a bunch of dark chocolate trail mix on an airplane. If I know I got to look at the levels later on.

I love that line by the more drink of one hundred calorie cane sugar infused caramel latte high price coffee. This one maybe let me say it's going to hate me that you're advertising on the front of it. Why it says lactose free energy, but it's got skim milk in it. However, they added lactase enzyme. So lactase enzymes digest the skim milk.

Oh my God, I'm going to get, I'm going to get fired. It's not that bad of a, like, that's good that they put lactase in there along with the skim milk. I would rather like, like, if I wave a magic wand, I'd rather they be using regular milk because all the studies on the benefits of dairy tend to be much stronger with full fat dairy compared to low fat or fat-free dairy.

The fats vary, especially for the metabolic function, for the satiety, for brain function, and for bone health. If you go with full fat instead of low fat or fat free. So it's kind of like back to eggs. I'd rather you eat eggs with egg yolk rather than egg whites. I'd rather you have chicken with the chicken skin and the gristle and the bone than to have just pure skim milk. It's more than just calories. And obviously, we're talking about calories, yet skim milk, but there is

100 calories in this and they do use low calorie sweeteners, looks like stevia. So if I'm looking at ingredient label, I do like to see stevia, or alulose, or deribose, or erythritol, if people's guts can handle a sugar alcohol, then like Acetyl family potassium or sucralose.

But when I'm looking at an ingredient label, this is actually pretty clean. I would give this like an eight on a one to 10 scale. But I would say if you're concerned about fat-free milk and isolating the proteins from the fats, like either a nut milk, like a almond milk or coconut milk or an oat milk without the cane sugar added, or just like using whole milk would be a little bit better.

But isn't that better than having, so by the way, Slate, Ben said eight out of 10. So that's still very good. Yeah, it is. It is good. And for the average Joe who's not Ben, who is a fitness fanatic health, you know, health phenom, it's a really good thing to have because at least it's getting 20 grams of protein into somebody who otherwise would not be having that. Yeah.

And it's better than having, you know, a milkshake in McDonald's. Right. I would drink this, honestly, if I weren't myself a little bit lactose intolerant, and I know- Right, that's true. I can have dairy if it's fermented. And this is the case for many people. If you ferment the dairy, if you do like a good fermented yogurt or a kefir, or those really mean the two primary delivery mechanisms for fermented yogurt, you can do better if you're lactose intolerant. You can also do better on milks that have lower amounts of lactose sugar, like,

goat milk, camel milk, et cetera. Hold on, what did you say? A lot of, I raised goats, so we do have goat milk. What do you do? How about camel milk? You say camel milk. It's a thing, you can find it. Stop it. Yeah. Okay, is that okay? Yak milk. Where do you buy camel milk?

The camel milk company out of California is where I've gone in the past. From a camel. Yeah, it's from a camel. Yeah. Surprising. Do you drink it? It goes from a camel. I have, but it's also really expensive. I wouldn't know. How much is a leader of camel milk? No, because I don't really buy it anymore. But it is better for the body. Why? Cows milk. Because of a few reasons, lower amounts of lactose, a smaller protein that's more bioavailable than the larger protein found in cow's milk.

And also a lot of cows are bred now for A1 protein instead of A2 protein. So when you see at the grocery store that you can buy A2 milk, that is milk that tends to produce a little bit less of an immune response in the body. And camel's milk and goat's milk are naturally more like an A2 or they have less of the A1 based protein.

Because goat milk, I see all the time. So are you suggesting to people that they should maybe switch from maybe even their almond milk or their oat milk to a goat milk? Would that be helpful to you? Well, the nice thing about nut milks, again, if you are adding a bunch of cane sugar to them and bictoners and fillers is that a lot of people who just don't do well with milk in general do better with that and their lower calorie in most cases. There's some that are higher calorie, like I think macadamia nut milk is the highest. Yeah.

But one issue is if you want to be careful with your calorie count, a nut milk is a better substitute compared to a dairy milk. But how about the carrageens in them and all that stuff like that? Yeah. Yeah. And you can see on this spot, on this can they say no carrageenan, right? That is a filler that can upset a lot of people's stomachs.

Yeah. And it says lactose free, sucralose free, erythritol free, but I don't want to throw them on a bus when I said false advertising. It's technically they have an enzyme in their lactase that allows you to digest the lactose. So it's not lactose free, but it's more like they have the carrier agent in there that helps digest lactose. So technically by the time it gets into your stomach, it is lactose free.

Okay, that's okay. Deoretically. Thank you. They're going to hate me now for even breathing on this one. That I don't care about. But this one has a wreath for tall in it, which can be a little bit like if people have like small intestine bacterial overgrowth. I don't know. It's not bad though. It's oxygenated. Yeah. Okay, this is the next one. This is magic mind. I love hydrogen infused water. That's good.

That's good. I got that for you. Okay. And then these magic mines, I want you, I'm blind. So I can't even read the ingredients. I do know there's amazing stuff in here. All right. Eat my carrots. Let me see. Okay. Good. See? All your. It's pretty small. So magic mine, new licks are matcha green tea agave.

And it's a very small bottle. So a lot of people see agave and be like, oh, that's just a hundred percent for a sweetener. And agave does have a higher amount of fructose in it. The thing with fructose, fruit juices, fruit sugars, et cetera, is a lot of people have vilified them. You know, the idea that fructose is a poison. I think Dr. Robert Lustig introduced that concept in his book about calories. Can you believe that though?

So it is true that fructose can elevate triglycerides and contribute to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, but only in a case in which the liver and muscle glycogen stores are already topped off. That's at which point fructose starts to spill over and cause issues. So if I'm burning 2,000 calories a day and I'm drinking 2,000 calories a day of coke and that's all that I'm drinking,

I would theoretically not elevate my triglycerides or get a lot of the issues associated with fructose because I'm at a net calorie balance. I wouldn't advise it because you're also going to be like, you know, you're going to have low nutrient density and you're not getting enough protein, et cetera, if you're just drinking Coke. But if people see agave or fructose or high fructose corn syrup, sometimes there's some harsh chemicals and things like that used to make that. So that's a whole separate side issue. But the idea of fructose in general is that if you're a physically active person,

and you're not overeating, and you're having fruit juices, fruit in a blender, agave in a drink or whatever, it's usually not an issue unless you're eating too many calories. At which point, fructose can become an issue. Right. I mean, this is the whole conversation, but people are like, fruit does not get you fat, please. I mean, this nonsense. No. Fruit's not going to get you fat. Yeah, if you eat night, if you eat like

everything else, plus you eat nine pounds of grapes. Like maybe I do sometimes that can be not the greatest. Right. And if the fruit is sweet and has a high glycemic index, which grapes do, long-term, you're getting so many insulin surges due to that high sugar content that you could create a long-term state of insulin insensitivity. And then you get some appetite control issues, you get some metabolic issues that long-term could cause problems

even if you're not overeating the grapes or fruit, you're just eating enough to spike your blood sugar repeatedly throughout the day. So how long did the stem cell one take yesterday? Oh, yeah. And what kind of stem cells? Well, they, the first thing she did was remove a bunch of my blood and ozonate it and then inject that ozonated blood back into my body.

What? Which is kind of like an anti-viral, anti-bacterial, oxygenated blood. Then she did laser lights, which sounds kind of funky and weird, but the light helps direct the stem cells or activate the stem cells using photonic absorption of the light. So they're more efficacious. Then after all that, and a few other little things like hydrogen water and some peptides, et cetera, then she did the stem cells as the icing on the cake.

Okay, so how was that different than our friend Dr. Kahn's stem cells back in? Well, if you get stem cells in the US, they're usually not expanded. So that means that they haven't grown them to increase the amount of mesenchymal stem cells, which are the active stem cells that would theoretically be rejuvenative or have some type of anti-aging qualities.

And if you go overseas, muse stem cells, I don't know if those fall into the category of expanded cells, but that's a brand new form of stem cells that not a lot of people know about. It's a multi-linear lineage undifferentiated stem cell extract is what I believe muse stands for. Multi lineage undifferentiated stem cell extract.

And the reason that that's interesting is because normally stem cells called ISPC stem cells have a high mesenchymal stem cell count, but they also have very low histo compatibility, meaning a lot of people have an inflammatory or an immune response that can be unhealthy or dangerous or very uncomfortable for people.

And the muse cells do have a high amount of histo compatibility, meaning if you were to get infusion with them or an injection into a joint, there's a very low likelihood that you're going to feel crappy afterwards, but they have a very high amount of healing capacity.

issue is you do have to travel internationally and they're expensive. However, from what I understand, they require fewer expansions than a normal expanded stem cell. Every time you expand the stem cell lineage, you run the risk of mutations, you run the risk of impurities, and you run the risk of them causing issues in patient, in which they're injected. So if you get stem cells in the US, they're unexpanded,

but they're also arguably a little bit safer unless you're getting something like, let's say, a new cell. It's safer internationally or safer. Domestically, if you're concerned about histocompatibility because the FDA is pretty strict about how stem cells are regulated. Actually, I don't think they're technically regulated by the FDA.

But they're considered to be almost like a pharmaceutical drug, or they're treated a little bit like one. They're not quite classified as a drug, even if they're trying to classify them as a drug. But there's so much regulation in the US that you do have a lower risk of side effect issues, but also a lower stem cell counts are getting

Less of the good stuff, arguably the question is how much less of the good stuff for it to be an issue. Now, what I did was simply a stem cell infusion. This is an anti-aging or longevity or brain health play, right? Stem cells straight into the bloodstream. They go throughout the body. It's like a shotgun approach.

If you were to go to, let's say, doctor, like you just mentioned, Dr. Kahn, like he has clinics and Cabo and Dubai and Toronto, he will do stem cell infusions, but he also does injections into different joints using ultrasound guided imaging. And this is something you can do for like back treatment or knee treatment or shoulder treatment. And even though you can also do that in the US,

The idea of regenerative medicine using safe expanded stem cells overseas is a good idea, but it's going to be a lot more expensive and inconvenient than doing it in the U.S. So there's benefits to both. I bounce back and forth. I've done international stem cell treatments. I've done domestic.

If you're literally just in it for anti-aging and you wanted to like, you know, like the doctor I was with yesterday, Dr. Joy Kong, she's like 53 years old. She looks like she's 40 and she's been doing quarterly stem cell infusions. So every three months for like eight years or something like that. And that's, you know, that's not something out of the reach of someone who just wanted to go to a clinic and get a stem cell infusion and recorder. How much is it? I don't know. Of course not.

Yeah. Yeah. I know if you were to go overseas and do the full meal deal like the super duper fancy stuff and you were to get like gene therapy and T cell therapy and stem cell therapy. That's the whole anti-aging package that a deal does. And I think that's 50 K. But it gets these IVs though, right? You get the IVs with that.

If you're doing stem cells, you want them to go into a really stress free, low inflammation environment. So everything like eating a really clean diet, avoiding alcohol, grounding and earth thing and exercise, but not too much and avoiding toxins in your food. And you know, they're like really babying your body before and after is better because essentially if you think about it, you just injected a whole bunch of fragile new baby cells into your body.

And so you don't want to go like have a couple of old fashions afterwards or something like that. Right. So basically you can't drink, but you said also like easy exercise. You don't want to stress your body is basically your point, right?

Yeah, and this kind of harkens back to the idea of like the Goldilocks zone of exercise, right? There's a researcher named Dr. James O'Keefe, and he's identified that if you exceed about 75 minutes per week of vigorous intensity exercise, 150 per week of moderate intensity exercise, the potential for plaque accumulation, atherosclerosis and inflammation begins to exceed the benefits of the exercise. And there's a lot of people like people who are doing CrossFit every day or training for an Ironman or a marathon or whatever who are definitely

exceeding those numbers. So you wouldn't want to be over training. You would want to be over drinking. You wouldn't want to have tons of exposure to like, you know, EMF and Wi-Fi and stress, you know, all these unhealthy things, especially if you're focusing on stem cell therapy.

So do you have you seen any kind of benefit by you doing this? How often are you doing these types of, this does not stem cells. This is not, it's an NR, NIAGIN, IB. You can pretend they're some cells just speak. Yeah, that's be cool. Yeah. How often have you done the stem cells and do you see any benefit? Have you seen any benefit?

I have probably done like 20 stem cell therapies, everything from joints to infusions. And I don't know what 42 year old Ben would be like not having done those. So I don't really have a good comparison. But I can tell you that I feel really good. I don't have a lot of like the aging issues that seems like a lot of my friends are having to deal with.

I feel like I've maintained a great amount of youthfulness and I would attribute some of that to the stem cells. I've been able to fix some worn and torn joints like me with stem cells. I feel like I'm 18 years old, so I feel pretty good. You know, it's funny. I'm going to say that you look younger now than you did when I first met you even. There you go.

But I don't know why that is. It's like, I think it's a con everything or maybe it's just genetics. I think a lot of this stuff, just like anything in the biohacking or the house, it's stacks, right? Like I go on the sunshine, but not too much UVA and I put on good clean sunscreen. If I'm going to do that, I use red light therapy. I do. If I'm going to have a high UVA exposure and now.

I recently did a podcast about this. Toxins, poor air, bright overhead lights, airline radiation, sunlight coming in through a window where it's blocking some of the UVB. All of these things dictate that a small amount of low SPF sunscreen is not a bad idea a lot of the time, especially for fragile thin skin like the face. So I've been using, so I have sunscreen on right now.

Like I've been using a lot more of it and I use the young goose products. Basically every two months I use their anti-aging package. It's like six different bottles plus sunscreen. So it's like a cleanser moisturizer serum and those are all based on peptides. They've got a bunch of transdermally bioavailable peptides. And that's probably I would say the it's made the biggest impact on my skin health is when I started using those products.

Well, you look really good. Thanks. So, hey, what other things would you say is good for your overall usefulness, skin? Well, I do. Oh, how about this? Do you mean brothers and sisters? Yeah. Do they look like you? Two brothers and two sisters. Do they have your skin?

I would say I'm self-conscious, like comparing myself to my brothers and sisters. I think my skin has aged less than theirs possibly, but I don't know. Do you have your gut and stem cells in your skin? I don't like your thorough analysis of side-by-side analysis. Maybe you should. I have had my skin treated with stem cells also. Has that worked? I think it does make a difference.

I think that if you're looking at beauty using good clean skin care products and taking advantage of the newer developments and things like peptide absorption for skin health is a good idea. So I like that company. For example, Young Goose is one that I use, although I found out from Joy Kong last night that she's now making skin cream. I've got a couple of my backpack that she puts umbilical stem cells and peptides into. I even ask her how much it costs. It's probably like the world's most expensive skin cream.

Can I have one of them? But I have it. And she's just up the road. I would give it to you, but she told me that I'm supposed to do like a before after and use the two different bottles for a month.

Well, you can't look at it younger now. Your name could actually be Benjamin Button, because you literally look like you're like 22. Benjamin Greenfellow, Benjamin Button. Yeah. And then a clay mask once a week come out with red light therapy daily. I think red light therapy for collagen and elastin for the face is fantastic. The clay mask helps to draw toxins, moisturizes. I do a derma roller before I do the clay mask. So I'm getting some of that dermal abrasion. I think if I were to go to a beauty clinic and do a microneedling protocol, that would be better than derma rolling, but I don't really have the

time or the desire to do that. So wait, hold on, you're way too fast. God, I gotta make that. Okay, so you're telling me you do a clay mask how often? Once a week.

Okay, which brand are you using that? Ollie Tora. All the way down to like, it's got like six day old baby go derived colostrum in it. Like you read the ingredient label and you're like, are they kidding me? Like just crazy stuff. Colostrum and all these different like antioxidants and nutrients, like face food. So I put that on the face. I don't know. I think it's probably like around 50 bucks for like a thing of it. Yeah. Okay. So wait, you put the clay mask on and then you put the red light on top for how long?

20 minutes. Okay. And then I actually walk around for a little while longer and just let the clay dry just so I'm doing my thing. I go shower it off. And that's once. Okay. Yep. Okay. Give me some other stuff you do for yourself. In addition to the clay mask, I do a scrub once a week. So twice per week, my skin is getting embraced. Once with the dermal roller plus the clay mask, once with the scrub.

You wouldn't want to get skin turnover all the time because then you're just going to wear away the skin layers too quickly and have a very very fragile face. But scrub once a week, clay mask once a week with the dermal roller, young goose products, the moisturizer, toner serum, their whole suite once in the morning, once in the evening. And then I probably had stem cells on my face three times. Three times. Did Dr. Conduit do? Everything I'm saying is nowhere near what, you know, there's like biohackers like freakin Brian Johnson who are doing a full laser resurfacing.

I was going to ask you about him, though, because what finished what you're going to say. Then I'm going to ask you about him. Did you do with Dr. Kahn, the stem cells on your feet? No, I did that with Dr. Adelson. I did Dr. Adelson's full body stem cell procedure. I've done that twice in Park City, Utah, and they go toe to head. They do literally hair, skin, nails, genitals, every joint up and down the back. You're literally under anesthetic induced surgery for four hours, and they do everything.

I remember you were talking to that Dr. Adelson at the biohacking conference in London about this whole stem cell. That was like in 2020 or something. You did that, right? Yeah. You did that again? I'm done twice. Yeah. Why? Why do you need to do it twice?

Well, as you age, you do decrease your bioavailable stem cell pool. The first time that I did it, he used my own stem cells. He tapped my hips and used my own bone marrow and made like a bone marrow soup with stem cells and then injected that into all my joints, skin, everything. And then he came out with a new protocol in which he uses umbilical stem cells. And because of the reasons I was talking about earlier, you get a little bit less of like an immune response, cytokine inflammatory response to those who recover faster.

And I wanted to see what that second protocol that he does was like. So I went down there and did it again. Both times that I've done it, you feel kind of like you got hit by a truck for a few days because it kind of sore and you got everything injected. And then within a couple of weeks, you start to feel like Superman. You recover faster, your erections are better, your skin looks better, like your hair, skin nails, everything grows faster. So it definitely turns back clock.

And how much is that? Like if you're getting full head to toe 70,000 to do. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a pretty big procedure.

And how long does it last? I know you did it twice, but how long does it do you have? I mean, theoretically, the benefits would last for your life, but I would say, you know, if you were doing this a full on anti-aging play, this would be something you could do like every four or five years. You don't have to do it. I mean, if you did it just once, you'd see huge benefits and turning back the clock. So how long apart did you do both treatments? About five years. Five years. Yeah. Yeah. Does Dr. Kahn do that one too?

He doesn't do the full body one. Dr. Allison's one of the only guys I know of in the world who specializes in, because it's a pretty intensive procedure. And there's two doctors working on you at the same time. And it's kind of, it's kind of one of those things where, hey, let's just shotgun everything. And not a lot of doctors will do that. But Dr. Khan is very good at joints. He's very good at back.

He also does, like I said, gene therapy, T-killer cell therapy. What is gene therapy really? There's like a bagel nerve block where he resets your nervous system with an injection into the vagus nerve. Like he has some cool tricks up his sleeve that you can't do in the States. So you can travel internationally. What does that do though? What you just said? Which one? The one where you like the vagus nerve.

The vagus nerve is the nerve that kind of snakes through your whole body, innervates the pacemaker cells of your heart. It helps you to manage stress if it's well toned. There are things like chanting, singing, humming, gargling, cold water face dunks, even electrical vagus nerve stimulators. You can hold up to your neck, all of which work to specifically increase your heart rate variability, like lower stress by by toning the vagus nerve and increasing your ability to have good balance between your

your fight or flight nervous system and your rest or digest nervous system. That's basically how addressing your vagus nerve can have benefit. Lower stress improves digestion, improves cardiovascular function, improves focus, etc. That's the benefits of the vagus nerve. The more stress that you're under,

The more likely it is that you have poor vagal nerve tone or poor nervous system balance. Now, if you wanted to just say, okay, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and use the big guns on this thing, that's where you could literally go to a doctor and this would be normally something for like extreme PTSD or trauma or just stress that someone cannot manage at all. That won't go away that you would do this. You would normally just like.

Wander into a doctor and have them jam a needle right behind your carotid artery, because it's a delicate procedure. Often, because there's some throat swelling involved, you do one side one day, then you wait a couple days or at least a day to do the other side, but you're supposed to do both sides. Is it dangerous? It's also known as a stellar gangly nerve block. It could be dangerous if the person is doing it. It's kind of like if you were to get a brain surgery, you'd preferably want the surgeon who's done thousands of them. Yes. The person every once in a while does them.

A deal does a lot of them. Another doctor, Dr. Matt Cook in San Jose, he does them. Dr. Avi Herskovich, also in, he's in San Francisco, he does them. So there's a few people you can go to to get them done and you sit up after having had the injection and you feel like you've like smoked a joint and had a glass of wine all at once and your stress level is just melt away and it feels like that for at least a couple of weeks. Just a couple of weeks.

Yeah, but think about this. If you open that window, it's almost like ketamine therapy for addiction, right? Like if you do ketamine therapy and you realize after ketamine therapy, you've got a window for a few days where if you avoid that thing that you were addicted to, which is easier to do after the ketamine therapy, then you can break that addictive cycle. And it's kind of like with stress, if you do a procedure like that and your body suddenly receives the message that it's safe and down regulates the sympathetic nervous system,

It's going to allow you to be able to be less stressed even after the acute effects were off. Does that make sense? It does. But eventually it comes back, though, unless it's managed. Yeah. You're not going to get like anything. It's not going to be abandoned. Yeah. Like it sounds like all of these things are just like they're short-lived. They're short-lived. Yeah. Like if you get on an ozempic and you're going to control your calories and you're going to lose weight, but once you get off it, if you haven't developed healthy ED patterns during that time or use the ozempic as training wheels,

To do so, say, oh, this is what it feels like to not be hungry. This is what it feels like to sit down and not eat all the food. This is what it feels like to have one plate of the buffet because I don't feel like I need more than if you were to wean off a drug like that. You would theoretically, if you built the mindfulness during, get to the point where you'd use it as training wheels and then you don't need it anymore.

You know, it's like even like my wife and I did freaking like MDMA couples therapy. Right. And that was the training wheels that it took for us to like really have long, deep, meaningful, honest, transparent discussions, which we now have without drugs. Yeah. And it's like sometimes I don't think every couple, you know, for the rest of all times to go out and do MDMA therapy to have honest discussions. But my wife and I were at the point where we just developed, you know, almost like a barrier to doing that. And now

We can have great dates and sit in bed and talk for a long time. We don't have to go use MDMA beforehand. So a lot of these things like training wheels.

No, it makes perfect sense. That's actually a really true point. I know a lot of people, a lot of people, my friends who swear by that in terms of for couples therapy, because it gives you an opportunity to like open up and it loses your inhibitions that you would otherwise have after so many years of doing the same thing over and over again. Exactly. What did you guys do that? Like how long ago? We did it six times over the course of three years.

last time we did it was six years ago. Really? Yeah. And it made a big difference. Pretty big difference. And I'm cautious saying that because I don't want a bunch of couples who are having issues feel like they need to go do drugs or plant medicines together to get over that barrier. If I could, it's very difficult, kind of like what would I look like with stem cells versus without? Yeah.

It's very difficult to rewind the clock, but I think we could have made an even more concerted effort to just, you know, talk through our problems and have honest discussions without that, but that's just the way that things panned out. But I don't like, um, I have twin 16 year old sons, right? Like I will be coaching them and training them and talking with them many times. Once they do get engaged and they're preparing for the months leading up to marriage to talk with them about how to have honest, open discussions with their significant other and

how to have, you know, evening prayer meetings like my wife and I have now and how did you quarterly retreats like my wife and I do now. So that what are you doing? So that hopefully they and their wife don't get, you know, like what like we did like 14 years into our relationship and realize, oh, we've we have a lot between us because I mean,

I don't know about you, but my parents didn't train me that much to be married. A lot of the stuff I just had to figure out on my own. So for me, I want to do a better job training my sons on what to expect during marriage and how to navigate discussions and living with another person, hopefully for the rest of your life.

Did you date a lot? Because you said you were very much like your homeschooled until all these years. Did you, did you have a big chunk of time that you dated people before you got married or did you wife one of your, I probably dated less than the average normal traditional public school kid, just cause there weren't a lot of girls around.

Yeah, that's good to say. Prom was free lonely, dancing with myself. Did you go to prom even? I probably had like eight girlfriends before I, well, I met my wife in second grade Sunday school. So I have known her for a really long time, but I didn't start like going out with her until senior junior college. And up till that point, we'd been hanging out for a couple of years and been best friends before even fell in love and started to go out together.

And she went to like a local classical Christian school called logos and also by the nature of going to a classical Christian school also, you know, fool around less didn't have a lot of boyfriends etc. So we relative to the general population probably had fewer partners than the average person and we didn't have sex at all until we got married.

You didn't know. No, that that was just something that we committed to each other. And I promised to her parents when I asked them if I could marry her and I wanted to stay true to my word. So really? Yeah, it was really hard. Oh my God, I can't believe that. Actually, you're in half of torture, but.

Wait, so you did it for you. Yeah, that was great. Yeah. I was going to ask you to turn out okay. Yeah. Oh, so for a year and a half, you guys dated then. Did you guys do anything? Like, how does it work when you have no sex? Are you doing nothing else? Are you kissing? Even like, what are you doing? Everything but like, what do you do? We got maybe to second base. So.

And then you guys got married. Yeah. By the way, that's become a big thing now. Have you heard about this whole celibacy trend that's become hot right now? Have you heard about this? No, what is it? I don't know. Like my friend Emily told me about it. I don't know what it is. You mean like guys going into monk mode and just like living in the basement and working out? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to ask her again. It was like something that became like trendy for like a hot minute. I don't know if it's still happening to be honest, but

Celibacy like waiting until you're married to have sex like that definition. I don't know if it was a way into it. I don't know if it was waiting until you got married or if it was a trend where people weren't having sex. Yeah. I got to find out. I mean, the reason I think it's a good idea is the same reason that I think just like serially dating or treating sex as a casual event is potentially risky for long term relationship and societal stability.

I think that if you set up sex as something sacred and you set up marriage as something sacred and you don't get into marriage having developed the habit of as soon as something a partner does annoys you you can ditch them and move on to the next person or try on some new flavors. Then you're going to be more likely to commit to a long term relationship to have children to build legacy to build generational wealth to set the foundation for what made this country great.

And I think that even though it sounds kind of trite, if you have a bunch of young people sleeping around and not treating sex as sacred, getting in a marriage, not understanding what a sacred committed relationship, even when the other person that you're with is not perfect, actually feels like and looks like, then you can create a lot of long-term societal and familial instability. And so I think the idea of celibacy lends itself better to the foundations of a great society than the opposite.

You know, it's funny that if you, I'm sure you've noticed that we're living in a society now where people are not getting married anymore. People aren't even dating properly. People, men are just like watching porn, women are like, there's no men to even be dating for women to even date because apps and everything else has now ruined how people even socialize. They don't even know how to socialize. They don't know how to date. And they're not interested in relationships because everything is just about a swipe to the next person.

It's actually really sad how we've evolved into this strange place where people aren't even getting married and not having children. Honestly, I hate to say it's almost like the lesser of two evils, but I'd rather let's say like,

Young men, who right now are spending a disproportionate amount of time on social media, playing video games, in mom's basement, whatever, not to stereotype too much. I'd rather them be going out and doing dangerous things, jumping off cliffs, partying, drinking, et cetera than I would a generation of young men who live in their parents' basements and don't get married till they're 40. And I'd almost rather see young people doing dangerous things than I would them doing nothing at all.

Absolutely, of course. And if you've seen the decline of what's happened since people were born after 1995, actually, what was happening is 83% of the things that we used to do. We don't do anymore, like go out in dates, like getting trouble, like jump off cliffs, bike ride, just basics, right? Because people are now stuck on their screens.

Yeah, my son's graduated high school two months ago and I kicked him out of the house. Really? They're in, uh, I think they made it to Arizona so far. They got a used car. They don't get a dime for me. And they're just off driving around the country for, well, it was supposed to be home by Thanksgiving. I got a tent for the top of their car. They're like parking by the side of the road and camping and getting water from springs and eating oatmeal and beef jerky and just learning how life works and getting out of the house for a little while to just go explore, which I think is a great idea. That's so amazing. They're ready for it. So.

So you basically said to them, you're leaving the house, come back around Thanksgiving and go fend for yourself. They knew it was coming. It wasn't just like they graduated and I said, leave. We have a whole greenfield family constitution. Tell me. It was rights of passages. There's everything in there and what we do for Easter, what we do for Thanksgiving, what we do for Christmas, what time we meet for meditation in the morning, what time we have dinner at night, everybody's all the way down. Like everybody's end of life and memorial services planned and what we would want.

At our funeral in terms of like song sung and the dress code all the way back to what the each family's power animal is and symbol and hex color and font and what the family crest looks like and what each element of the family logo represents and the family logo is on the flags outside our front door and throw pillows and hoodies and hats that we wear out to dinner and everything but.

In that greenfield family constitution which by the way having a constitution like this is a great way to back to building generation wealth building a sense of pride in the family name, building a legacy that can be passed on to my sons and then proved upon in their families. There's a lot of benefits to having this idea of almost branding your family could brand a business.

But in that constitution are rites of passage, particularly for young Greenfield men, meaning when they turn 13, they have a rite of passage into adolescence. Three days, out in the wilderness, backpack, blanket, knife, they have a wilderness survival instructor who they've worked with since they were six, and he oversaw that rite of passage. When they come out, there's a ceremony, there's a fire, there's a feast with friends and family, and that marks that they are now adolescence, and they're given more

responsibility and chores at home. They're treated less like kids. They pitch in more with family dinners and they're just expected to be a greater contributory member to the family at that point. When they are 16, again, this is baked into the Constitution, so they've known this was coming since they were eight years old. They have to leave the house for three months.

It could be an international trip. It could be a domestic trip. It could be whatever, but they just can't be under mom and dad's roof for three months. They just have to go out and fly the nest. And do you get the money or no money? No money. No. But they've had time to think about this and save up and budget and they know how much they can spend every day to be able to not drain their bank accounts. So they do all of that. And then at age 17 is the final rite of passage into adulthood.

at which point they'll be stamped hopefully is ready to be contributory adults to society and ready to go off and marry and start their own families or whatever they want to do. So age 17 is a 10-day vision quest. That solo in the wilderness, no food, no water, unless they can collect it themselves while they're out there. Again, backpack, wool blanket, knife, and a full-on facing around fears for 10 days and being alone and doing almost like a Native American-style vision quest.

Who put this whole thing together? Your dad or? I did. And I did after some of my podcasts and some of my interests has been in the realm of parenting, education, raising responsible adults. I've learned a lot from different people who I've interviewed about legacy, about rights of passage. And I wove all of this in the Constitution together just based off of years of learning from people who have done similar things with their children and just kind of borrowing from the best of the best.

This is amazing. I wrote a whole book about this moment. You did? Yeah, it's called Boundless Parenting. It's like you have the blueprint for biohacking in your lap. I also have the blueprint for parenting. It's like the tools of titans for parents. I interviewed 32 of the top parents that I know, these super successful entrepreneurs with super impactful children who are already out changing the world in politics and business and tech. And so I asked every parent the same set of 32 questions.

My wife has like fifty pages in there seventy pages of advice and there's all these seven hundred pages of just like deep in the trenches parenting advice. What was the top three pieces of advice that really stuck with you that would help build mentally strong children. There's one page in the book that's like common threads right things that would pop up over and over again consistently from parent to parent.

The biggest one was more is caught than taught, more is caught than taught, meaning no matter how much you tell your kids that they need to eat healthy food and that they need to get outside and move more and that they shouldn't have their devices at the table if they see you like.

Sneaking in Ben and Jerry's multiple nights per week and sitting inside your desk all day without taking a break and having eight hours of sedentary time during the day and whipping out your phone like five times during dinner to check on that one last important email. They're going to catch way more on to that than they are on to what you told them. So children see by example. They don't learn by word. They see by example. So you have to be the person who you want your children to be when it comes to the positive habits that you want them to develop.

So that's number one is anything you tell them, understand that you better be willing and ready and already doing that thing yourself. Another one would be caution with forbidden fruits. It's all parenting approach that formally is known as love and logic, meaning the more that you just have hard nose or hard yeses in your home, like, no, we don't talk about porn. It's not a discussion. You don't learn about porn is just like,

You're going to eventually find that out at a friend's slumber party or, you know, wherever else. And, and that's just, you know, it's off limits. We don't talk about that. Or no, we don't get alcohol. You don't taste alcohol. That's off limits. It's forbidden fruit. That's for adults to stay away. You know, weed, drugs, porn, you know, any, any vice. If it's a hard no, you're creating forbidden fruit in your house. So for, for us, I've had very frank discussions with my sons about porn.

Here's what it is. Here's what it does to your brain. Here's what it does to society. Here's what it does to the way that you think about women when you're interacting with them. Here's what it does to your objectification of the opposite sex. Here are the issues that it can even create in countries with things like sex slavery and sex abuse. And you're not banned from viewing or watching porn, but here's everything that it can do. Now you go out and make the decision.

not you can't have a cupcake at your friend's birthday party because gluten is the devil, but rather hey, if you have too much gluten it can cause neural inflammation, it could cause some protein inflammatory issues, it may cause some gut issues, you make the decision about whether or not you're gonna have gluten.

alcohol right my first experience with alcohol was stealing a bottle of scotch from my dad's office and getting drunk in my bedroom because for me alcohol was like the totally off limits thing that just. The parents did at the dinner table or whatever we do like to drive farm wines quarterly organic wine delivery service to our house every month and when it comes I open up the little brochure and we taste the wine and have a little shot glass the boys get a sip like never going to go take a bottle of wine from our pantry and go get drunk in their bedroom because it was just forbidden for them.

So using, and this takes more time and attention and presence for you as a parent, but instead of having a hard no or hard yes, you explained to your child the consequences of any decision that they're going to make. And then you let them deal with the consequences of that decision with some exceptions, like a one year old totalling towards a hot stove. Don't say, no, it's going to burn you like actually pull them away. And, you know, if you need to slap their hands so that, you know, the, this mild sting of a slap is a lot less damage than whatever burned from a stove. Right.

Um, I would say the last one was I was shocked at the number of people who didn't necessarily like homeschool or private school, but who had really good frank discussions with whatever school that their children were going to. And many of them would just like pull their kids out of public school at random times to go on a trip or one family like sent their kids to school an hour late every day so they could just have amazing family breakfast every morning before their kids went off to school. And so people who like game to the system almost,

And with not necessarily not something because it's a public school or private school, but who almost adopted a hybrid model of homeschooling, travel, more time at home, et cetera, while still being able to use the learning environment accordingly that their kids were in. So there's so much in the book though, yeah, it's like so much. That's such an interesting one that you just said.

So who would tell you to do a hybrid model? So you're not homeschooling the child and you're not putting this, you're not putting the kid in a regular school system. So you would kind of modify what's out there already and make it work to your advantage. Yeah, they'd like go and talk to the teachers and just be like, Hey, we're, we know it's not summer break, but we're leaving for a week to go travel with the kids and they'd get their homework and they'd make sure they did their assignments. And they basically would think outside the box when it comes to education.

In general, which is kind of like Seth Godin's philosophy that if your kids are going to go to school your number one job when they walked in the door from school is to start unschooling them or teaching them about how life really works versus just like the rote memorization and pure adherence that they were getting at school. That's a myth that book sounds I didn't know you wrote that book.

Yeah. And I, and I self published it because you won't, if you're a health and fitness author, you're not going to get a deal in the parenting and education category. So it was kind of an uphill battle. And even though you've sold up so many books, it wouldn't give you a shot. It does. If you've sold a bunch of books in one category, it doesn't transfer over into a publishing deal on a different category. If anything, it makes a publisher a little bit reticent to publish you in a different category, which I didn't know until I tried to do it.

Yeah, no, I mean, that's, but that's actually, and is it as big as this book? As big or bigger? Who did you go to for your, like, for your experts or for your

Amazing parents who I personally knew and whose children I'd interacted with. And it just, I probably asked a hundred different parents and I had about, I think 30, 32, somewhere in that range in the final, final book. So that's amazing. Yeah. And how did you get, are you and your wife just naturally on board with the same stuff?

We are pretty much on board with a lot of the same stuff when it comes to education and parenting just because of how much we talk about it.

But wait, did you homeschool your kids? Kind of. We did private schooling for a little while. And then when we realized that they were just getting a bunch of homework and memorization and that private school just seemed like a glorified version of public school. And they didn't have a lot of time to pursue their passions and their interests and their desires. In fifth grade, we pulled them from that and we started not homeschooling, but like unschooling.

Meaning, not a lot of books, not a lot of curriculum, a lot of time spent just being outdoors, visiting museums, going on trips, cooking, taking care of animals, exercising with dad, just basically this idea of learning to experience. For their sixth grade math, they built a tree fort all summer, learning geometry and woodworking in angles rather than doing a math book.

So, unschooling is focused a lot more on experiences in life than it is on wrote curriculum or hefty memorization. I love that. Unschooling is what you call it. Unschooling is what it's called. Yeah, there's a good book called the unschooling to university, which kind of like decodes out of K through 12. And still, if you kid wants to go to college, go to college while unschooling.

I'm getting more and more interested in this. I just did a TED talk actually, why I'm asking that I did a TED talk last week in Miami about how to raise mentally strong kids in a coddling world. And yeah, and I, I did a ton of research on it. I also like, I tend to try to speak to the best of the best in the world expert, whatever, like, I've had to do this because what I've found is what's happening is we're, we're really are raising very soft.

kids, which is not good for our future generation. I'm sure you saw the studies and how 20% of kids are now taking their parents to job interviews. Did you see this whole thing? They're taking their parents to job interviews because they don't feel mentally strong enough to go on their own.

So the coping mechanisms and coping skills have been very diminished since, you know, over the last over many, many years of the helicoptering parents and everyone. Take your parents to a job interview, but you don't have to take your parents to have your sex changed.

Isn't that where we're living now? Isn't that just crazy? So that's why when I'm asking you, I would have loved to have read the book. Interesting. What happened is it was in Miami, it was basically hurricane season, and all the power went off on the entire block. And so I had to sit there in the dark for two hours. And so when I went up to finally do my talk,

the sound was off. So I have to now re-record it. So I may want to read that book and see if there's anything in there that I can read. It's a long book. Should I shoot this thing, by the way, this magic formula? Yes, by the way, Campbell, you still haven't done this magic. Okay, so yeah, I see me agave. So by the way, all the other ingredients in this look great. And I'm sure the agave is such a small amount that it's not a big deal.

No, this is an amazing one. The DNA in there that balances out the, yeah, this looks like a good, yeah, the fruit thing, you know, to unpack that glycemic index part, it is interesting because I used to think that if you drank fruit juice or if you blended fruit, it would make it way more sugary and cause a higher glycemic index and like more of us talking to the blood sugar. And it turns out research has since shown that fruit juices don't spike your blood sugar anymore than eating the whole fruit itself.

Really? When you blend fruit, you actually get a lowering of the glycemic index and less of a blood sugar response because something about blending helps to take a lot of the fibers and the seeds and the antioxidants and concentrate them in such a way that your blood sugar response is lower. It's really funny you should say that. First eating whole fruit.

And we'll take the shot and then I'm going to tell you why. Tell me if you like it. And I want to see if you're more energized and focused. Like right away, like when it's too. No, I'll take you like a few minutes. Placebo effects. I mean, I can tell you, I've tried a lot of the ingredients in here before, like bacopa from memory and cognizant for function. Yeah, it looks pretty good.

Well, I'm going to send you some. It's called Magic Mine and they're delicious. And I'd like the taste of them because most of these other things taste like crap. Yeah. But these are good. But I wanted to say something that you just said. What were you just saying? You said something about. I was talking about the blending of fruit or the juicing of it. I was going to say I had this guy. I had Gary Breck on this podcast a while ago and he said that we were the ultimate human.

the ultimate human. Yeah. And he did this thing. And we talked, we talked about how he said that when you blend in it, when you people have these smoothies and you're blending all the fruit and in the blender, blah, blah, blah, it skyrockets your glycemic. Well, Jerry, I love you, but you're wrong.

But first of all, that clip was shared. I don't know how many times it was insane because people were like just railing on him that it was wrong. Like all those people that normally do it, like all the regular suspects who like, you know, look at these things and like, and like,

Like, like, Lane Norton. Yeah. And like, who's that other guy? He's like from South Africa or South America. Like reaction videos. Yeah. Well, no, no, no reaction. He's the guy who's like a doctor and he like goes and like finds. Oh, geez. Anyway, I don't remember. It was like unbelievable. I have no clue how I've escaped having anybody done this. No, nobody's never done that to you. Nobody's ever done anything like that to me.

I have no clue why because I've said some pretty crazy things and nobody said wrong things that I know of, but I've said crazy things. Well, what do you think of all these people? Do you like, do you, like, do you watch and follow these people that, like, or other bio actors or other people who are really very popular in the wellness and health space who have a really big audience?

Yeah, I mean, most of them are my friends. And so do you. Gary Breckett, Andrew Huberman, I wouldn't say Brian Johnson is a friend, but we talk. That's different though. He's more of a, like he's tracking his whole biohacking his entire, what do you think of all the stuff that he's done?

It's pretty impressive, but it requires you to have a highly systematized and regimented existence. When you're eating back to the same thing, you know, breakfast, lunch, your dinner and go into bed. I'm just starting to get ready to go to bed at some ungodly early hour. Like, I don't know what time it is. You don't do those things. What has he done that you have not done?

Well, let me think. I don't think there's much that he does that I've not done. If you want to count some of the less sexy stuff, like eating the same thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Yes, I've done that on some days, but it's not something that I do or going to bed early or eating a super early dinner so you can sleep better. I've done that, but because we enjoy our big

Fun family dinner zone. Do that. I would say of the things that he's done that I know of, the only thing he's done that I haven't done is laser resurfacing of the face, which is a pretty intensive protocol and makes you look like a zombie for like four weeks, but has incredible results. My friend up in Spokane, Cameron Chestnut, he's an incredible cosmetic surgeon and he does those procedures.

and he did one on my wife and I got home from a trip and she opened the door and it looked like a zombie movie. She couldn't leave the house for like two weeks and then in like four weeks, she started to look younger and so she's 42 and I would estimate that it probably took a good like eight to 10 years off her face. It's crazy.

And he does the hands and the neck, so that the hands and the neck don't look old in correlation to the face. I've never seen, because I've seen a lot of, but living with someone and actually seeing that happen nearly overnight from when procedure was pretty nuts. So my wife's done that and Brian Johnson has done that, but I haven't done that.

Okay, why haven't you done it? Honestly, even though I like the idea of maintaining youthfulness and vigor and that's good for confidence and obviously it's on brand for me. I am speaking so much, video cameras in front of my face so much, doing podcasts so much. I don't know of a period of time that I could go for like four weeks without having a camera on my face. And I suppose I could just do it with my face all bloody and stripped and swollen and stuff.

I mean, I think Brian Johnson just did it like in the past couple of weeks because it popped up on my feet and he looks like shit right now and it'll look better later, but I just don't mean even the full body stem cell procedure. I'm kind of like out of commission for maybe five days tops, but

Yeah. I mean, if someone were to offer me that laser resurfacing on a silver platter and you know, were to do it to me, I would, for me, it would just be a matter of where do I find the time to take off? Is it really a month? It's a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Look it up laser resurfacing. It's pretty intensive.

Okay. I mean, look, I think my friend does what they do is first they do like stem cells that take the fat out of your butt and inject it in your face. But then the finisher is a laser resurfacing. That's what makes it look like your face got run over by a truck.

And that sounds scary, though, too. Yeah, I was a little scared when I saw my wife. You didn't know she was getting it done? I knew she was getting it done, but I wasn't prepared for it to look like that. I mean, she would like be throwing up from the pain meds and her eyes bleeding. Her eyes were bleeding? Oh, yeah. She's bleeding out her eyes. Yeah.

But this is something like a lot of celebrities do it. I know people who fly to Cameron's office up in Spokane to get it done. So it's not like people don't do this, but most people after they do it, just stay totally hidden for a month so you don't see them. And then they come out looking super young. How much is it? Apparently they were just juicing vegetables really well. Apparently, yeah, it's more than $100,000.

Did your wife spend that, or did she get a discount at least? She discounted, just because he's one of my buddies. He gave her a good deal. What kind of deal can I get when done? Is it worth it? I don't remember exactly what it was that she got it for, but it's, I mean, if you wanted like, what the top of the top thing that apparently all the celebrities are doing is the best thing for reversing age. I mean, I can tell you, like, she looks incredible after all. She looked crappy before, but I was surprised. Like, it definitely. Can you show me a picture before and after?

trying to think he has, uh, he has one, uh, Cameron does on his Instagram. He has a ton of before and afters on his Instagram. Okay. Cam, what's his last name? Cameron Chestnut. Okay. Damien is something else. He's going to say, I was going to say, I'm going to put me in touch with him. Yeah. Yeah. He's really interesting. Name me something else that you haven't done that you were like interested in doing or the, and I want you to tell me the one thing that you have done that, that yielded the most amazing results that, that you were shocked about.

Okay. Let's start with that second question because we've covered a lot of the sexy stuff for stem cells, peptides. A lot of the things that I think would be super sexy or fringe that move the dial a lot we've talked about, but I would say

one thing i've been doing recently that has absolutely transformed particularly my mornings and just my general enjoyment of the rest of the day is combining sound light electricity and vibration for meditation.

So this is kind of fringe, but it's totally doable. Anybody can do it. So I have this chair now. It's called a shift wave chair. You sit in it and you wear a little fingertip monitor and it monitors your heart rate and your heart rate variability and then vibrates and correspondence to the beats of your heart and comes with audio tracks that you can listen to that coach you through breath work sessions while the whole chair vibrates your body.

which in and of itself is pretty cool. I sat on it at the American Academy of anti-aging medicine conference. It was so cool. I got one and I used it for, I probably got it like six months ago and I used it for a while, but then I also got my hands on a light sound machine. And these are machines that you lay underneath that blast you through closed eyes.

You can barely, well, not barely, but you can detect the light, but your eyes are closed and it's almost like you've taken six grams of psilocybin without actually taking any drugs or anything. It automatically just shifts your brain into a whole different state using light stimulation. And in the past, I've used headset versions of that, like this one called the brain tap. Yeah. There's all the neurovisor that I actually like. I have my bag upstairs, the neurovisor, because I still travel with it.

What does it do though? It shifts your brain in the same state that you'd be looking for from, let's say, like, ketamine, LSD, psilocybin, any of these, you know, in the agents or psychedelics people use for brainwave shifting, but it does feel using light instead, light and sound stimulation. So I figured out how to take an AV cable from the light and connect it to the chair. So now I've got the light, the sound, and the vibration all going at the same time.

And then Nikola Tesla said, if you want to understand the universe, think in terms of energy frequency and vibration. So I've got the light frequencies and the sound frequencies and the vibration, but then I was looking for a way I could incorporate electrical energy into that. So then I outfitted that whole setup with a PMF coil, PMF, it's pulse, selective magnetic field there. Wow.

And there's one called a Halo, H-A-E-L-O. And I put it in my lap during one of those sessions. And that can be set for meditation, inflammation, digestion, whatever. So now, if you go into my downstairs living room, in the room beside my office, in the corner, there's a chair. And the chair is the shift wave. And above that is the Roxiva lamp. And next to that is the Halo PMF coil. And then I will just pull on a gravity blanket or one of those infrared sauna blankets.

I do this usually at about four thirty in the morning so i literally get out of bed early and go downstairs and i do like anywhere from thirty to sixty minute session and it is just the coolest thing ever. What is it for you that was a total check out better creativity better focus even though i'm getting up early feeling like more energy than i've ever had. That's one of the things i miss the most besides my family when i travel now is my vibrating light sound therapy chair.

I don't have to take any drugs even though i feel like i used to feel when i like i used to experiment with plant medicine and journey and i don't i don't do any of that stuff now. But it's a similar feeling of just like relaxation for getting all your worries meditation all at once using technology rather than drugs to shift you into that state and cool part is you sit up from it is like ready to tackle the world but you're not simultaneously metabolizing a budget.

drugs out of your system and for example there's one session on there for my favorite session called rebirth and the session starts with fetal heartbeat, you know wishing of mom's womb darkness occasional flashes of light and then as the session goes on it progresses to like a whole birthing experience where you're,

Going down the birth canal, there's light and like heroic epic music, and I've never done that and not set up a crying and be just like ready to tackle the world like literally feeling almost like reborn. We do that every day light and sound stimulation. I probably done that 10 times like in the past two months. Okay, but wait, but people have to buy one of these machines though. Everything I just described you, if you were to put everything you literally probably spend about $20,000.

Yeah, that's a lot for the average person. It's a lot of money. Okay. So let's go back to people who are like less than a car. Okay. Less than a car. But for the person who's listening to this and like now they're like familiar with the cheap travel hack version. Yeah. What's the scrap? What's the more? The neuro visor. I don't even think that's a thousand dollars. And it's like wearable glasses that do light sound simulation. And then there's a vibrating wristband called the Apollo.

And so that's what I travel with is I'll wear the wristband or my wrist or my ankle. That does the vibration and then I lay back and I put the glasses on and those connect to headphones. So what does the vibration do on its own? Vibrating or so-called haptic sensations can shift your brain into a certain state based on the frequency of the vibration. It's like the Apollo can be set for calm, for stress, for... But how often do you wear it? Focus. They should take this needle out of my arms soon. I know.

starting starting to hurt to feel. Yeah, you can feel like when it's done. Yeah. So the, you know, how like some animals when they've been chased, I think Robert Sapolsky talks about this in his book, zebra's don't get ulcers. He'll kind of like shake it off to shake off the stress. Or sometimes like if you've been really stressed, you just

Shake it off. So vibrating does that similar function. It's almost like a mild moving sensation that causes your brain to just like shift a new state of calm or focus or creativity whatever it is you're looking for. And then the chair that I was talking about is basically neural feedback because it's detecting, basically your heart rate, where you're at and adjusting it as you're breathing.

Is it similar to what we did at the founder land when we you're like, Oh, go to this thing. There's like a pod in there. It's your device. I forget what it's called, but a little bit similar to that. I don't remember. That you lay in the vibrates that play sounds that.

Yeah. What if you just have, like, did you go to the therasage one when they had the pod and it was like a vibrational sound and then they had the red light around it? Yeah. Did you try that? All these things, they're very, like they're all kind of going after the same thing, right? Like using electricity, light sound, frequency, vibration, et cetera, to shift your brain into a certain state and to preferably do it without hefty supplementation or drug use. Okay. What's the other thing that you were going to tell me? Other thing.

That was the thing that you've been using that you think of. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But wait, what if you had to say what that thing has done for you? What has it done for you in like two sentences or less? It made me feel way more rested. Okay. Throughout the entire day, I'm getting out of bed a little bit earlier, better creativity, better focus, lower stress, higher on average heart rate variability. So it's affecting my nervous system. And it is very enjoyable. Like you get this big dopamine rush. You just feel incredible when you finish it.

And we'll say, okay, now we're supposed to say the thing that you said that it was the two questions I asked you was the thing that you've done. The thing that I've done and the thing that I want to do. Yeah, I want to do laser resurfacing. Yeah. I would say there is an idea of an oil change for your body. And there are some medical clinics that will do things like ozone therapy, whether pull the blood out of one arm and ozonate it and it goes into a machine, ozonate it, then it goes back into the other arm.

There are other therapies like ozone plasmafaresis where they're doing that, but it's passing through like a filter. It's also called an extra corporeal blood ozonation and oxygenation where the blood comes out. It gets filtered, goes back in. This is almost like kidney dialysis for your blood. Well, there's a new company called Bumati.

LUMATI and they've developed two different filtration systems over a three-day process of four to six hours per day. It filters out glyphosate, microplastics, COVID spike protein, lime, Epstein-Barr, pretty much gives you completely new blood, completely filtered blood. You fly into Encinitas, they shuttle you across the border every day to Tijuana to do the treatment, bring you back, you stay in like a luxury hotel, you great food.

Go back to next day and do it again. You go up for three days in a row, completely detoxifies the entire system. This is something that just got developed and approved like in the past couple of months. And I think it would be incredible to do. Are you going to do that next? I'm going to do it in like three weeks. Are you? See, you know, it was priced super cool. I just got signed up for it last week. Really? Yeah. See, you get to try. And I don't have any of those things that I know of like Epstein bar or line, but I think it is an incredible technology.

See, I think it's super cool because you get to try all these things and like, okay, how do you spend your time though, like now? Do you do mostly podcasting? Do you like do a lot of speaking gigs? Like how do you like, what do you do with your day besides exercise and all that? I spend 10 to 15 hours a week talking to people on the phone about their health problems.

You coach people. I do lab work. I do blood work. I do coaching where some people pay a monthly fee for me to monitor their training and their nutrition and they just have access to text me or email me or interact with me throughout the month. And then other people will just like purchase a one off phone call with me where they'll usually be sending me their labs and stuff like that beforehand. I'm not a doctor on practice medicine, but we just talk about issues that they're having. And I tell them basically what I would do if I were in their shoes.

So yeah, I can't prescribe medications or prescribed labs, but often they're coming to me with labs they've gotten from their doctor or problems they've had that other people haven't been able to figure out. Yeah. And so that's like 10 to 15 hours a week, just literally helping people. So you do that the way. So you have COVID or you do. Distance training. So you do like, you take, you have, you've said a few times on the podcast clients clients. Yeah. So you do have clients. I do. Yeah. I mean, I used to coach like 40 people a month. Now I coach eight.

And so how do you do, how much do they pay you for this? $5,000 a month. And then you basically are like giving them a program of some kind of protocol. Yeah. And then they just have to do it. And then they can do everything for them. They wake up in the morning and do what it is that I wrote down, keep their logs. I'm under the HRV, they're sleep and just basically, you know, everything from

Actors getting ready for movie roles to executives to athletes like it's it's just basically like one-on-one coaching and then I also just do Random calls with other people aren't necessarily like paying a monthly fee, but we're just doing consoles with me So do that. I do the podcast twice a week. So you're 17 years twice a week. Haven't missed a session never never I'm amazing No, and sometimes I won't record any new week cuz I'm traveling but then I'll get back and record like seven and

So, um, so the podcast alone ever or just gas or both. You do some of those. Both, both. I have solo shows where I'm answering listener questions and reporting on the latest research and then guests. So I just get, that's a huge part of my education. Just can you talk to super smart people, way smarter than me who would normally never give me the time of day who were like talking to me for an hour and a half. And I just get to feed through the fire hose from.

some author who's book of just read or some scientists who just released some new technology. That's probably the favorite part of my job. Talk to people. And then I do article and book writing. That's usually I'm usually writing for anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes a day. I was working on a new book, working on an article, working on a copy for something.

And then I do advising and also investing. So I advise a bunch of companies in the health and nutrition fitness space and then invest in companies too. And then I own a supplements company called Keon. And even though I don't do a lot with that company anymore, there's still a little bit of management and some calls and things related to that. And then trying to think about having other jobs.

I think those are my main jobs. And then besides that, I just hang out with the family and work out in the morning and play a little tennis and pickleball and go on walks and hikes. You seem so much more like, again, take this the right way. You seem so much more calm and like chilled and like when I first met you.

I don't remember where I was in the first meeting in London. Yeah. I was also like traveling getting. I know, but you seem much sweeter now. You seem so kind and nice. Like look at your 18. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe just you caught me on a bad day. No, no, you were really nice then too. But then like you seem like you're at a different place in life and I don't know what it is.

I think, so obviously life is a constant evolution and we're always transforming and always becoming the people God has called us to become or becoming a better version of ourselves or hopefully engaging in things that help us to just become more grounded, more dialed, more authentic, more the people we are rather than who we think that the world expects us to be. And I think probably the thing that if you ask me that I've most doubled down on,

In the past couple of years, it would have been my own personal spiritual time. Particularly when I travel, I neglected it when I travel and then I'd be pretty good at home. But now, I mean, I was walking to sunlight for ganics this morning, just memorizing James 5 in the Bible and listening to a sermon and taking care of my spiritual health before I focus on physical health or work or business or anything else.

I would say similarly, the at home attention paid to prayer time with the family, meditation with the family, reading the Bible as a family. If you fill yourself up with good positive things, then it's like the good positive things.

are already going to come out or like my mom used to say, like, if somebody bumps you and you're full of honey, sweet things will come out and then they bump you in your full of vinegar, then the bitter things will come out. And I think that just like intentionally and systematically focusing on making sure that my my intake at the beginning and the end of the day and my work is specifically focused on spiritual health. I think that that manifests itself physically and emotionally and from a character standpoint. So let's say that's probably the biggest thing.

That's a big one, though. So you pray what other modality has helped you with your spiritual or spirituality to be more grounded and be more happy.

I used to read a lot of positive self-help books and devotionals and books related to spirituality. And now I mostly just read the Bible. I just read the Bible and I have an amazing study Bible where I can read the notes and unpack stuff and go back and forth between chapters. So I don't follow a reading plan per se, but right now I'm just reading the whole book of John.

And then every morning or every evening, I memorize a verse from the Bible. And so that is also not like through the whole Bible. Typically, I'll pick a section that's really spoken to me lately. I have had some health issues in the family in the past few months. And so right now, again, I'm memorizing James 5 just because it's about it's a section of it called the prayer of faith. It's about

healing through prayer. And so I'll choose something that really speaks to me in the moment. Before that, it was Psalm 23 about how God helps you during trials and tribulations and tough times. That was another one that I needed at the time. Before that, it was Proverbs 3 because it's filled with a whole bunch of wisdom for young men. And I was preparing my sons to go and leave on this trip, so we were memorizing that together.

So just kind of like cutting out all the distractions and kind of just like super old school and simple, just opening up the Bible and reading the Bible. That's one thing that I've kind of changed recently versus reading a whole bunch of books written by other people about the Bible. First, just opening the one book that I feel not to get too woo, almost kind of has magical powers in and of itself and is the only book that when you're reading it, you can turn around and talk to the author right afterwards. So to say that, and then also,

really doubling down on how I end the day, meaning, you know, not Instagram or YouTube or devices or kind of like coddling myself with social media or whatever. I'll just turn off the brain at the end of the day, but instead just praying. So me and my wife end every day, you know, before my mouth.

Tape goes on and my head hits the pillow. We just pray and we pour out our hearts to God together. You know, it's like a spiritual sacred thing you can do together. And yeah, we just talked to God and we poured our hearts and we start our day like that too. But just like starting and ending the day with a real focus on the spirit and on speaking with God and learning from God to me, it's just, it's so fulfilling, more fulfilling than I work out in a smoothie and, you know, a good day of work or anything else.

Wow. How long is it? Probably because it's eternal, right? It's like your spirits are for better or worse. The one thing, one part of us that goes on to exist for eternity. Yeah. And each prayer sect, like every, how long is the prayer practice? Is it a few minutes? Is it 10 minutes, 15 minutes? I'll pray in the morning for about five to 10 minutes. I pray before all my meals and just occasionally throughout the day when I have a decision to make and then my wife and I pray for five to 10 minutes in the evening.

So it's not crazy. It's not like an hour of dancing and speaking in tongues. No, no, no, you didn't get it. And it's just, it's just like a habit, like a consistent habit. It's like running a marathon every week is not as palatable as running two miles a day. Absolutely. And then the last question is social media and all that. It doesn't strike, you don't strike me as somebody, even though you are a social media person, that you would spend a lot of time on social media. Do you?

That's kind of a funny question. So my sons have social media accounts because they're starting a tabletop gaming company and I told them the same thing that I kind of do myself. You don't have to have all the apps and spend all your time reading the comments and posting yourself like get a social media manager. It's well worth it because then you just don't get sucked in and you have somebody else who's posting your content, you focus on the content, you know, the manager, the maker, you're not the consumer, you're the creator.

That's what I coach them to do, and I have a very similar mindset for myself. I'm on TikTok, but I don't know how to access TikTok. I don't have the username or the password or anything. I have a social media manager who posts that stuff. If I do a video, I'll send it off to them, and they cut it and post it and figure out when they're going to time it. There is such a thing as what's called organic posting.

And i literally have a calendar on my phone and ill say like don't post anything on instagram today ben because my social media team knows when stuff is supposed to be posted and when i don't fully understand but all i know i was not supposed to mess stuff up so i don't.

Ever scroll on social media. I never got it Twitter Facebook Instagram. Yeah, I follow people and you know when you first open it whatever you see there is the first post that you see which is so weird because I open Instagram on the way here and you and I had even talk today and the first post was from you and

Really? So it's almost like they knew where Uber was taking me or so. I don't know. But are you serious? You know that phones have... How weird though? I don't know. Maybe it literally... Because it does say in my calendar on my phone, I have an appointment with Jen today. So maybe it has calendar access? I don't know.

But I don't actually do the scrolling thing. Like I have just never gotten that. And I know that it's engineered to keep me scrolling if I start doing it. But so I'm on social media, but I use it as a producer and a creator, not a consumer or a manager. I don't go into the comment section. I don't scroll through fees. There's occasional times when I'll give you an example when Iran recently attacked Israel.

Yeah, I like picked on that section on Twitter and read through the posts to catch up on the news. But I, that's pretty rare that I do something like that. If there's some current event that I just want to catch whatever's trending on it pretty fast, I'll do that. But I, not only am I kind of a Luddite when it comes to social media, but I've purposefully kept myself a Luddite with a lot of that stuff. I don't even know how to log into my own website anymore. I don't know my, if I did get locked out of social media, I wouldn't know how to get back in. It's just not a big part of what I do.

And that's why you're so, I think this is part of why you're so productive. You're the kind of person where you're not saying, as you said, if I'm not saying something that's meaningful or I'm not spending every minute kind of accounted for, you feel like you're wasting your time. And that's probably why. Because social media is a huge time suck. And you've like, by the way, I know we have to wrap this up because what time has this been forever?

Oh, yeah. It's been like two and a half hours. Oh, yeah. I do have to wrap pretty soon. Okay. So do you wear shoes? Did you come in without shoes, by the way? They're outside. Oh, okay. So you do wear shoes. Yeah. Okay. A one more question, and then I'm going to help fly and wrap this up. What's the one thing that people ask you about the most? What supplements should I take? And what would you say?

It's different from person to person. Go test your body. There are a few that seem to have broad applicability across a wide range of individuals, namely creatine, fish oil, a multivitamin, and increasingly I'm saying NAD or some variant of it, but everything else, we live in an era where you can go test and find out if you need vitamin D or if taking vitamin D would give you vitamin D toxicity. Or if you need XYZ probiotic or your microbiome is

Balance just fine. Thank you very much. Cause you need a diet rich and fermented compounds or you need a fish oil or is your omega index at 8% or above? Like all this stuff now is testable. So I tell people, Hey, there's a few base ones that work, but besides that go test your body cause it's not that expensive or difficult to do now. And then you, you asked me one question I didn't answer.

Which one yes we was better to walk on the treadmill or do that's so true is right and the answer is. I'll see if i can spit this out in sixty seconds your cardiovascular fitness is split in four different categories you fat burning capacity to do to max your mitochondrial density and your ability to be able to tolerate lacked gas and a.k.a. the burn.

If you are just walking or just sprinting, you're not going to hit all those variables. For VO2 max, once every one to two weeks, you do a hard maximum sustainable pace effort, like a four by four minutes on a bike with four minutes of recovery after each. For lactic acid tolerance, you go hard and then you recover, but not for very long. This would be like the classic Tabata set, 20 seconds hard, 10 seconds easy, eight times through, four minutes, boom, done. That can be a couple times a week.

for mitochondrial density, you go really hard, then you recover for a long period of time. This would be like five, 30-second sprints with two to four minutes of recovery after each one. The sprints are really hard, the recoveries are really easy. And then for fat burning capacity, you could do like a 12, 330 or go off for a long hike or whatever. But you need to be aware that cardio fitness is not just cardio. Cardio is technically four different things. So if you hit those four, if you hit two max mitochondrial density, lactate tolerance and fat burning capacity,

And those are kind of like woven throughout your week, then you're going to get all of them. Now, if you're lucky enough to be a soccer player or a tennis player lacrosse or one of these sports that has a lot of start stop and endurance baked in, you're kind of getting all those from your sport. But if not, you kind of have to intentionally program them in if you want the most bang for your buck, aerobically speaking.

Someone in their 40s was the best exercise to do. I knew that. My wife with the high risk of bone density, weight training, if you're morbidly obese and amorphic with a lot of fat stores, lungs and fat burning walks.

getting ready for a triathlon, high test, the interval training. So it's not one thing. The reason why I'm asking is because I think a lot of times we're, as you get older, anyway, for me, especially you get injured much more easily. You're buys very wear and tear. They, of course, it's about like building strength training and doing cardio and all those things. However, if you had to pick one exercise, if someone's not an exercise person, what would you suggest?

something that involves actual loading of the spine, the arms and the legs. So it would probably be something very much like a squat to overhead press. Building arms, legs, functional training the core, and there is loading across the entire spine, the arms and the legs. And I mean, it can be a little bit of a difficult exercise to learn. Best, most biomechanically friendly way to start off with something like that would be with a med ball, 20 to 50 pound med ball, hold it to your chest, squat down, stand, press it overhead.

You'd be a great trainer. You should be a trainer again. Just do that. I know you should do it again. You should do it again. Another life. I'm telling you, me, I would hire you. Okay, Ben, when can we do part three? I'm like, calm down here. Let's do it. When you back. I don't know. You don't come, you come out. I avoid LA, but I sometimes come down here and just batch a whole bunch of stuff. I'll probably back it before the end of the year. I hope so. Yeah. Because every time I, I'm like, listen, I have like a whole other, I didn't mean any of the questions from your, your other book if you can believe it. Oh, Jimmy's.

I have a million questions. You got to know them. You're going to be like a co-host. All right. I'm hilarious. Okay, Ben, I love having you on as you know. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for spending two hours with me or however long it's been. God knows. Thank you for inviting me along on your IV experience. By the way, I will say again, those NRB IVs are really good for me and great for everybody. And so I'm actually very fortunate that we got one. So thank you for making that happen. Yeah.

All right, so if anyone wants to know more about Ben, check him out. He also does coaching, he has Keon, his supplement company, and just check him out on Instagram, because even just looking at his clips and you learn so much, what else can I say about you? Comment, I might not see it, but I might. Yeah, he probably would. He is still comment, and there you go. Thank you, Ben. Thanks, Jen.