Episode 177 ADHD and Processing Speed

Hi there and welcome to episode 177 of the ADHD Adults Podcast. I'm James Brown, as usual, the man who takes speed every day, as well as his ADHD meds. And I'm joined as usual by Dr. Alex Connor, who's established himself as a world leader in processing body parts.

And sadly, we're still missing Mrs Order HD because of, I don't know, laziness. You probably would have thought this was an episode about the film's Speed 3 processing control or something. This is where you can tell she's not here, Al, because A, I was able to finish a joke.

Yeah. And B, it was a shit joke. It was a shit joke. It's been three. You had to say speed figures. We've done speed and speed to film. Yeah. I know. I know. And speed three processing control. Can you imagine? Where's the bomb, for God's sake? Anyway, Alex, hi. Sorry. What did you say?

Right. Yeah. You're doing slow. I'm guessing you're doing slow processing. I'm guessing which is predictable. And honestly, that's on me. I should have guessed. Anyway, I said hi.

Hello. Fuck me. If you do this for the entire podcast and they are getting longer, then this is going to be a two-hour job. At least you didn't say. Yeah, I'm very tired. I haven't slept. I'm off on my dings at the minute.

Listen, the benefit from that is that Alicia didn't say what I was expecting, which would be something like, I'm slow processing or whatever, because you didn't get hello in there. Anyway, how are you both missing? No, that's not going to work. Just you, Alex, old pal.

I'm really surprised that you actually did the bit that I wrote properly. I actually wrote in the script, there's no way I'm excellent. Thank you. I'm very excited to be here as always in the monologue last week that Sam didn't do so we just talked about a new book and there was a press release that came out.

but almost literally everybody and there was a lot of people who commented on the book and the press release said the same thing which was it's released in March four months away that's a thousand months away or something probably don't know

Then they said, oh, oh, what's the name of the book? ADHD unpack, is it? And what's the ISBN number and pre-ordering details? They said that then, typically. You know, you're probably shitter at marketing, you are being interesting, all valuable on a podcast. I don't know how to mark one of whom said this a letter?

I died and I don't care anymore. Yeah, we've had a letter for one of those people asked about the ISP. Do you need that? What is an eye? I don't even know what an ISP in number is. It's a book thing. Yeah, book thing. That's right, James. I'm just going to find out how I read the letter. Okay. Okay. Okay. It was a

It's a problem of getting into James. It says, I know, it says, somehow, I listened to your last episode on fatigue. And did you know that James says fatigue every time he gets the red eye back from Transylvania? I don't mean he gets an aeroplane. He gets red eyes from the wind.

He goes on to say, and he's tired because of flapping his stupid bat wings, because he's a Dracula, because he commutes from Romania in this one, and the red eye bit isn't related to the fatigue bit that's more about flapping, which is helpful. I like how he did that addendum, I guess. I don't know, explained. I know, explained part of it. And actually to correct dad, I get pink eye, not red eye. But I'll be honest, you're at least maintaining consistent quality, I guess.

Thank you, James. We have had a real letter. Can I read it out? Oh, yes, you can. No. This is from Sally on Patreon or Patreon. Don't know. And it says,

Hello, Triple Threat. That's how I think of you. Also, what the police call me here. I don't know why I'm doing those jokes. Sounds not here. Hello, Triple Threat. Hello, Triple Threat. That's how I think of you. I just wanted to say that hearing the sincerity in James's voice when talking about emotional intelligence moved my soul, I wonder if you really realize what a treasure trove of research, storytelling and testimony this podcast is. So if you don't realize, take it from me. It is.

If you do, then all power to you, thank you, ex. Thank you, Sally. No, we don't. At all. I honestly don't. It's really hard. Yeah. Thing. That was lovely. I do suspect it's probably you that said something because from memory, it's normally you that says the things that move people's souls, to be honest. But if I did say something incredible, obviously, I've forgotten. Anyway, I don't have any do I, so unlikely.

But people always write in saying, Oh God, when Alex said this, it was amazing. And or obviously James is a cunt. Those are the two things we generally tend to get.

Oh, apart from the millions of messages about how Ace Sam is obviously. Anyway, as usual, this anyone who's ever skied up a podcast is a tragedy in three parts. I have to acknowledge here that there may be some bias in the fact that I wasn't allowed to go on a school screen skiing trip as a child because both mum and dad were made redundant in the same week and we couldn't afford it.

So I have a bit of a bias against people who skig. I like skig. And that confirms my bias. Of course you do Alex. Of course you do. Anyway, last time around, I think was about ADHD and fatigue and this week we're going to be discussing ADHD and processing speed.

Thanks to Amelia for suggesting this topic and I know that actually is it interested as well. The three parts include the Jimmy Cricket. Is it Jimmy or Jiminy with the left, right on the boots? One line of I had this exact conversation with somebody that I've worked with. And A, were you really the Jimmy Cricket was the Liverpool and comedian? B, that Jimmy Cricket's from the Disney thing, a little cricket.

And see they thought and said that Jimmy cricket always boots on back to front, which isn't right. And then it really made me laugh at them. How would you get you figured just make you know who you are. Anyway, the Jimmy cricket we now know evidence, Alex is psycho.

education monkey talking about the evidence around processing speed in part two will give just our two personal reflections and something approaching but not actually being tips on processing speed and then we'll answer some of your questions sent in in the final section as well you know the next bit so Alex my god my puns are bad if you're up to speed so far speed three

Speed three, tell us about ADHD and processing speed. Okay, I will. And I'll try and go slowly, James, so you can keep up. Processing, processing speed. It's how quickly somebody can take in information and understand that information and decide on something and respond to information in their brain box. It's not a measure of intelligence, James.

But rather how quickly someone can process and respond to visual or verbal or any else information. It's a critical cognitive function though. It's how we get shit done and it influences many of the all daily tasks solving problems, reading, reacting to visual or stimulus.

It essentially describes the fluency that our brain receives information and understands it and reacts to it, decides on it, and responds to that information. So it's the fluid that is, it's the oil in the machine, oleum ex machina, if you like James. I don't like that. And I don't like you. So potentially oh, some wank arrow, more like it.

When I wrote, I had to Google the Latin for oil, obviously. But I was so happy with how riled it would make you privately. Fucking bastard. So this fluency, this wild oiled brain machine,

is arranging all of us. All people have some people are quick, some are less quick. The processing speed varies across the general population due to millions of facts, genetics, education, age, environmental influences. But in all of us, it typically involves three main components. And we get a boring list clacks on to boot, to boot, that's boot. You know, that's boot to the film. It's actually that boat.

Double-er we spin out, so boat is boat. I mean, it's about a U-boat, so I kind of guessed. Yeah, yeah. Probably. It was round.

Wasn't about the captain's boot, which he wore backwards, I guess it was probably more. There's more missiles, it's a terrible war. Number one, these are the components of processing speed, not German submarine pills. Number one, input speed. So the time taken to perceive

information and interpret it as as vision or hearing or whatever comes from a sensory place like an eye or an ear or from having too much hair for a man of your age something like that. Part B is the decision speed. So the time taken to make a decision or draw conclusions based on the information either actually knowing you're doing it or you're subconscious doing it for you.

when you have to choose a revel. Someone offers you revels. They're all the same. They're all equally lovely. So you should just be able to choose one. But my biggest issue with the charlatans, if you remember the band was in their first book here. They had a line on the first album. Life is like a box of revels. You're looking for the orange one, which is the worst revel by a fucking mile. I think I'm about surprised. Hard toffee.

Yeah, I like that. Surprise. Oh, I like it in. What you did is that you thought it was going to be off the best one and it hurts your mouth to fuck. Coffee is the best one. Oh, yeah. I do think that by only said it because I knew what you would do. Well, I can see up on three.

output speed, the time taken that we need to generate a response, like that's the best revel it's coffee flavoured. In the world of science, you can measure those three things in a lab in different types of experiments. They're all terribly flawed, obviously, but

If you want to know what they are, there's different ways to measure reaction type, boom. And then you see how many people you are, or reading fluency, or just timed problem solving activities of all sorts of things that do lots in the lab for that. Right. So you said, I think you said it varies in the general population. So how does it differ between people in the normal population?

Hang on a minute. But obviously you've been fucking with the script. Is that meant to be a bromi accident? So how? No, that's what you wrote at the start. Like it says, how does it differ? Oh, amazing. I just rewrote Sow How at the end of the movie love. Sow Howl Brown, howl. Hats off, mate. Thank you. Are you asking about muggles, James? Yeah, I think. Yeah, no.

We sometimes really earnestly and overly seriously say, you can't take neurotypical person because there isn't one and blah, blah, blah. And then sometimes we also say muggles, which is a kind of inconsistent scene that I'm here for. It's a bell shaped curve with everyone in the gen pop.

And young to old in all people processing of information speed improves with age from children, especially in the early years, who tend to have slower processing speeds. And then up to adults. And then as we age, cognitive abilities and neural networks decline a bit. So they develop to adulthood and adolescence. And then they start to decline much later in life.

The slowing is natural changes in brain structure as we get older, reduction in white matter. This thing's synaptic plasticity, which we hear a lot about. And in these, I want, you know, what rhymes with the booberman labs, you know, these sort of neuroscience pros who say, because side-optic plasticity, that means that if you eat my

this supplement, I've loads of like a blue light in your eyes for my glasses, you will be able to do something. No, it's all bollocks. But there is some small amount of synaptic plasticity, it would appear in our brains. And that gets a bit stiffer, James, as we age, definitely breathing.

So as a result, older adults may take on with to learn new information, but like very much older, not. It seems to be my age kind of 400 years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. When you're a whippersnapper of 60, 70 years old, yeah, it's not it. It doesn't mean that when you're 40, you can't learn new tricks. That's more about having the time and inclination.

So this is all about the Brian then. The brain, the brain. This is all about the brain, is it? It is about the Brian. What was the thing? What was the Brian thing you want to say? Brian, Brian, this happened. We haven't done the brain yet. No, no, this happened the other day when I checked into a hotel again and said it should be under the name Brian. Brian, no, no, Brian.

I don't I don't obviously I must do it anyway carry on. Was your question is this all about the brain? Yes James cognitive processes probably involved the brain. You want to go ahead and pop a sticker up on your bathroom chart because you've done a you've been clever.

It is largely governed by the brain's neural networks. We talk about these all the time and they'll probably obviously in regions like attention, coordination, perception, executive functions, all of this probably sounds familiar to a lot already. Largely in the brain is a word that scientists use because we don't know. It isn't in other places and there are sensory organs and reflexes, non-brain neurons and all of that.

However, the three primary brain areas thought to contribute to processing speed are, firstly, our old friend, the prefrontal cortex. Can I just say PFC from now on? Is that quicker? Now I've said it out loud. Well, I don't know, three quarters of a second quicker. So yeah, it's worth it in a one hour podcast. PFC. Together, there's also the parietal lobes. I think of that as this, like the saddle, the saddle of the brain, if it were a cow that you were riding.

And then there's the white matter tracks that connect these regions. I'm going to have to track the glass there in 94.

Yeah, I can't imagine you being a glass, although I had been at festival with you before, and that was interesting stories not to follow. So at least one interesting story that you couldn't be asked to go and see, oh, this is last ever gig. I don't like him. So that's why I'm not interested in their reunion. So without getting on to the thing,

Just, yeah. What are those? What are those? We know a bit by the PFC or people probably forgotten. What are those brain bits, which is the anatomical term? Do it. And if you could do it with that boring list and everyone will be happy. Brain bits. Jesus Christ. I think the people listening to this podcast are comfortable with the PFC, prefrontal cortex being a main area of those higher order executive functions. The things we do that dogs and crocodiles don't do. But

Processing inputs, decisions, and outputs that's processing, we need to use executive functions quite a bit, and specifically from the PFC, but fuck. That includes, I've got an interesting list. No, no, no. Hey, attention control, there are millions, trillions, and terabytes of signals coming. When people say there's a terabyte of information coming into our brain, I don't know what that means.

I don't understand the concept so I've never understood it, I don't know what it means. So there are lots of things coming unthinkably large amounts of stuff coming into our sensory organs thing all of the time certainly.

And I've just got one big one. And we have to, like, ask for the friendly ghost, James. And we have to dismiss most of those things. We have to then choose one of them and stick with it in tasks that require fast information processing, reading, responding to audit tree queues. The ability to direct that attention is absolutely critical. And the faster the papa, the prefrontal cortex can direct and maintain.

Just right. Hang on a minute. You asked earlier. You asked earlier. Can I shorten prefrontal cortex to PFC? If you now add the accumulative amount of time we've spent with you saying PFC, PFC, PFC, it's added time, Alex. You know, what I like is when you take an abbreviation like PFC and turn it into an acronym, which is a word. So, PFC. And that's what I'm trying to normalize.

This is why we don't have an award, isn't it? It's one of the reasons. Yeah, it's why we're hemmerage listeners on a weekly basis as well.

What's weird is that we don't. That's what's weird, not that we do. The faster the Puffkirk can direct attention, maintain attention, the quicker we process things. B, oh no, I started with A, too. God knows. Working memory. We talked about this loads as well. You know about long-term memory and short-term memory, so revision for an exam or something, well established in general and in processing things. But that super short-term scribble pad in front of you guys at working memory is also integral to processing speed.

It supports the temporary storage of information while you make a decision or you formulate an action for interpreting a sequence of events. So if I say to you, one, two, three, four, the PFC manages working memory to ensure information is readily available. Five, five, James, I could see you. Thank you. And what I love is actually good. Your eyes went up to the left. Yeah. I've got to mess up. Yeah.

Or we also use that for spotting patterns, which is the same thing. If pattern spotting requires working memory and long-term memory, same thing. If you hold something in your working memory and compare it to a fixed pattern that you've already remembered, that is what pattern spotting kind of is. It's like if you hold a swatcher material to a photograph of your library, or you're drawing them, James, or you sell them. It's like that. Got any right here.

See, that's the right one. Cognitive flexibility. Processing speed is not just linear thinking, not just one, two, three, four, five. It often involves rapidly switching between different thoughts, different stimuli. And that's cognitive flexibility. Shall I do this or shall I stay on track? Shall I change? What's the right thing to do? Thinking outside the box, ironically.

The Puffka allows individuals to shift attention from one task. I can see the Puffka is the thing that allows us to shift attention from one task or one piece of information to another, if your circumstances demand it, or you want to just change something. And finally, for the main brain, it's changed in the inhibitory control. You don't want all those millions of information bits to be.

Taking your attention, you have to shut stuff down. Efficient brain processing requires us to inhibit the irrelevant thoughts or responses and the Pufka plays a key role in inhibitory control.

Um, as there any other, and again, Alex, this is the correct anatomical term, brain bits involved. Great. When you do, because we did a book, didn't we, James? When you do the book and we didn't want to use the Latin words, but we wanted people to be exposed to them, ding. So we translated them, and they pretty much all translate to that, the front you meet behind the back you beat or whatever.

Great brain and your spitty cum. It's fucking all of them probably. The PFC's come. Yeah, yeah. The PFC is connected with the regions of the brain through white matter tracks, bundles and neurons connecting different parts of the brain. And that allows for this rapid connection, communication between the prefrontal cortex just behind the right hand side, mostly of your forehead, remember,

to the other bits. It's like spaghetti, spaghetti junction, isn't it? But less bits. It's probably better. I like spaghetti junction. I don't know why I said that. It was like a funny joke. But I like it. It's a bit shift. You've got to admit. I like it. Anyway, I suppose because you've not derailed it, we better get to the thing then, the ADHD bit. About time two, but I did main two. I forgot. Everybody wants the accent, don't they?

No. No. We've talked before about the persistent and often... ...toxically misleading ways ADHD is represented. Pretty much everywhere. Including that we are f***ing quick thinkers. Because we can think on our feet and come up with creative new ideas, lots of different ideas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Quicker than James can drain a victim's neck.

This might be the bit where we get called negative on the internet, James. I think you might know. I don't know why we do. Negative. I don't know. It's never that it's never been hurled at me that accusation. I don't think it could be in the real world. At least for those of us that don't have super ADHD. Again, I'm not I'm starting to think I don't know if ADHD got something else. Just something shit. One of the cognitive characteristics often said about ADHD with adults is that we think quickly one of the medically

Notice things about ADHD is on average, not all of you, you don't have to do, is that we have a slower processing speed. Alongside those core symptoms of ADHD, a slow cognitive tempo, sect, scat.

And we have delayed processing speed. This is increasingly recognised to significant components of the ADHD profile, particularly if you're an inattentive presentation or combined presentation ADHD, which let's face it, almost every single one of us is.

Russell Barkley purports this idea that the slow cognitive tempo is ADHD, doesn't he? Oh, I went all excited then. I don't think he's saying it's like a hypothesis, not a theory. So he's not wedded to it. A recent meta analysis, that's one of the good big ones of looking at 47 different studies reported that significantly slower response or reaction times adults with ADHD were repeatedly reported.

So they have a test called the trail making test. And that shows the adults. So they actually need a bit more time, but significantly more time and average significantly to science people doesn't mean always been large. It just means it's probably statistically accurate. It's not just just because you only check with two people.

So we need significantly more time than people with ADHD on processing speed and slow reaction times. Other studies show worse performance in ADHD participants for the hearing, processing of hearing, auditory informational processing. And that is even true, annoyingly, in medicated adults with ADHD.

Which, to be honest, I really, really recognize because I love the things that the medication has helped me to do. For example, survive. It's a big one and not drink. But it isn't a cure by any manoramines. And the meds don't help me process auditory information. And it would appear that that's anecdotal, but it would have been that much by the literature. So we perform more poorly when medicated on visual tracking, reaction times.

For balance, James, there are studies that show no different story between ADHD adults and adults because, of course, that's science. So he says this, not having paid attention to the script, so not knowing the context.

Why Alex is just a case, and I don't mean... Do you know what I don't mean? Why is what the case, James? Sorry. Exactly. I'm trying to work out what... Do you mean is the case? Shut up. I'm trying to work out is the case that I'm asking you to clarify the difference between papers that say there are differences and no differences. Or just why we have pre-slow processing speed. I've got no fucking idea. I think you mean the first one.

The first one is that all the papers have got money. Really great scientists out there doing great work. Some of them showing different things to the majority, but it doesn't mean it's bad science. It often means it's underfunded science.

All of these papers, you're going to get different results and we have to look at what science is. It's not a clear answer. Some papers are better than others. James, you might not know that. James, text him on Friday, listing the reasons why we need to make videos to explain this to people.

And so, yeah, but I think, I think what, and I can't stress this enough, literally you wrote in the script, is why is it that people with ADHD have slower processing speeds? And the reason, James, if you were listening to the first part that we co-wrote... No. Exactly functions, and the puffker are central to this.

And we know other neuro transmitters are available at dysfunctional. Pope, I mean, that was me. Was that, was that me? Pope? What do you think? Do you think I wrote Pope? Me? That's, that's amazing. That's got to go in there somewhere. Pope, I mean, Pope, I mean, Pope, I mean, probably involved amongst others.

That's motivation, reward, regulation of attention. That's what activity of the neurons that are activated by dopamine is what we actually mean. Those neurons are heavily involved in.

all of those classic, attentional processing things, and reduced opening activity in the perfect category for the cortex, and also the basal ganglia in the middle, which is the movement of motion, so lots of other things, can slow down the brain's ability to process information efficiently, sluggish performance on tasks. I like the word sluggish. That's how I describe snails, James.

And sluggish performance, fantastic demand, quick thinking or rapid response times. I'm a bit confused because the start of that paragraph, you said Pope and me, but then you mentioned something called dopamine. Are they two different things? Yes, they are.

Yeah, you get them from eating chipped a fan on the internet. Or, oh my God, the number of science bros on the internet releasing videos saying, you have to eat this and you get more dopamine in the blood, in the blood. And it doesn't cross the blood. Yeah, and it doesn't cross the blood, brain barrier. So it doesn't get into the brain.

80% of serotonin is for good motility, it's for eating. You know, it's just, oh my Christ. Well, they're in Christ. Okay, right. Have you noticed we're completely ignoring American politics today, by the way? I can't even, can you? I just, I'm blanking it out. Yeah, I've given up on it. Is it my bit? Yes, it is. So Alex, in a completely naturalistic and non-prepared way, how might this have an impact kind of, you know, day to day?

It turns out Sam disrupts this less than I thought she did. Yeah. Gloriously, massively. The activity of dopamine energy, that's what we call these neurons activated by dopamine. I like the word dopamine energy.

impact us in so many ways, slow processing, speed, you know, understanding instruction, especially verbal instructions. Think about how that is when you told something and you really care and you've asked the fucking question. Excuse me, how does this work? We take longer to complete some jobs and not others. We respond in conversation sometimes more slowly.

And slowly, this is not a lack of intelligence or even understanding or desire, but it reflects our reduced efficiency and processing information. And also, not always, it's on average. It's bloody frustrating for us, but it's frustrating for my wife and anybody around us, really, tasks that seem so simple, so straightforward. I mean, they take a long time sometimes, and you can't predict which one.

And I think it affects my self esteem a lot. And we know that people with ADHD on average have problems with self esteem and certain areas of self esteem. And it really hits me and especially at school individuals may feel they are less intelligent when, apart from James, they are not less intelligent. They're just not.

Yeah, I mean, they are all more intelligently, but that's not a high-hearted reach. OK, that's that. Next is the next bit, and we'll see you in that bit. Bye-bye. Goodbye, see you in a bit. No.

Welcome back to episode 177 of the ADHD adults or at least two of them. Part two, we're talking ADHD and processing speed. As always, in part two, possibly on what we used to do, we're talking personal reflections. James doesn't have a reflection, but he has some thoughts on processing speed. Yay! And we're going to do tips. Why have we done 177 episodes and I've never done James doesn't have a reflection? Madness.

Yeah, it's a good one actually, because in the hotel room in Brighton where I'm staying, there's a bit that I thought was a mirror and when I didn't have a reflection for a second, I actually genuinely went, oh God. Is it a window? Holy shit. Yeah, basically it is. Go on the James, tell us about, are you taking information, process it and then do something about it?

So I'll preface this by saying this, this codes that there's a, you know, fair to middle and chance to everything I'm about to say is utter bollocks. But I don't think this is an issue for me, as you say, on average, we have slow processing speed.

I've always felt, and your laugh at this Alex, heartily, but I've always felt that my brain processes really quickly. And that means taking information, making decisions, which are reasoned and not impulsive very quickly and then being able to implement them.

I don't have, you know, we've covered auditory processing. I generally don't have issues with the speed of auditory processing. And this is one of the reasons, you know, you and I, and you're probably going to say something like, no, I'm just a processing speed and I've got a balloon shaped head. But this is one of the reasons that when you and I do talks, for example, and you've got no idea what the questions are, that we can very quickly respond by taking that information

thinking about processing it and then giving it an answer that's not complete bollocks. I would say that's probably part of having, you know, at least normal processing speed. And this is, I guess this is separate. But I honestly feel like sometimes I disconnect my mouth. I feel like there's a semi ding in there and just let words come out because it's quicker than thinking. I don't think that's processing speed. I just think that's a very risky way to be a science communicator.

The when information comes in, whether it's visual, whether it's something I read, and this is really important, as long as I am not distracted, as long as I am not doing something else like on my phone and Sam will come in and say something and again I won't hear because of

uh focused and then if she says it again because i haven't managed to task switch fully from that task i may process it more slowly but apart from if i'm really distracted or if i haven't slept which let's face it is maybe one of the reasons we do have slow processing speed is you know 66 to 80 percent of us basically don't sleep doesn't help um i like i say i genuinely feel that i can critically assess information opportunities decisions and ideas really quickly

And therefore, I think I'm probably in that bell-shaped ding curve if there is one in ADHD would be more towards the right-hand side, I guess. You can challenge that now before I give a tip, ding, if you want. I mean, you are. Oh, I feel sick. You are very clever. You're not stupid. You're very... I can't do it.

Yeah, I mean, just in general, you are obviously able to process information. But we've talked about this before, which I see you more things like auditory processing, which I screw in massively. I think that your needs make people happy is you will brute force auditory processing at quite extreme mental and physical cost.

to make people feel good about themselves, to feel happy, which I don't do because I'm a fucking psychopath. But I sometimes wonder whether you're good at it or whether you make yourself do it. A bit like the classic clever girl in school, making everyone happy because they can't bear the thought of not doing that. And then they break down and they wonder whether it's fair. I had sex with the clever girl at school.

Jesus, I was open. I was open for Sharon. She obviously wasn't that clever. Um, yeah, I, yeah, exactly. And she clearly didn't have me. Um, I, why, what was the decision-making processing to say that out loud on a recorded podcast? Yeah, again, there wasn't one that was impulsivity that was just trying to try and think of something funny about it. Originally, I was going to say, I was a clever girl at school, but that's inappropriate and not funny. Um, I don't know.

it is i'm going to knock this back to you and say that obviously i'm a people pleaser and obviously i do my best to make sure it may be in that scenario when we do a talk you know the talks i do you know always little talks yeah little talks yeah and i obviously you know want people to get an answer which is satisfactory but i still i think would maintain that

partly because it gives me, I think it gives me dopamine. We've said this before, I like a bit of jeopardy when it comes to not knowing what I'm being asked. It's one of the reasons I changed the slides for my little talks before every single talk.

Because if I know what's coming next all the way through, it's not as rewarding. And I like to be able to think on my feet and think, right, OK, I've used an emoji instead of describing something, what the fuck was I meant to talk about? Oh, hang on a minute. Well, it's probably that. And therefore, I think, oh, nice. At least it's actually telling you to talk off.

Yeah, so we can agree to disagree. Anyway, my tip, Alex, is it's about

I think it comes down to emotional acceptance, but it's about if you feel safe to do so, it is okay to explain your processing speed to people important to you. Because as you said, it can be frustrating for other people, almost as frustrating as it can be for us. So if, for example, somebody delivers a lot of information and expects a quick response.

It's okay if you're in that place where you're safe enough to disclose ADHD to say, I'm going to need some time to process that. And this is something that particularly for those in our community that are already HD and I've learned so much of this from Sam that I have to give her time to process things, which is why we've got change alarm if something's going to change and I even have to say light alarm when I'm turning the light on. But if I know she's going to have to consider something,

I'll have to say, this isn't going to happen now, but we'll have a chat later about this thing and give her time to process that information because Sam's processing speed is to the left side of that ball shape. What a really, really way of saying it. So it's, so it isn't. If you feel safe to it, it's genuinely okay to explain that you need time to process that information and then you'll come back to someone. Well, I think that's what about you, Monkface?

Well, you used to call me ferret in your weasel or something, very slightly cheating pointy. It was a hurt me. So one thing that isn't my personal flexions as such, but it's a meta reflection is the baking of the link between processing speed and intelligence. And they used to say, oh, they're slowed, and they'll, oh, somebody's slow. And they, they meant,

stupid and it isn't an insult to be a bit slow. I have a slow processing speed in some areas. It's why I don't do James can't read jokes because I was trying to do James's thick jokes which you know is what we do is bants but actually it was intended in a funny way but it isn't funny to people who have slow or sorry reading processing speeds and reading fluency is cultural based, it's process based, it's not intelligence and it's

Yeah, starting to realize that things like that, we have to change what we do. Like, you know, oh, I was in 80s, like, girl, clever girl at school, like, it's visible. We have to move away from that. Which is why we separate them. That was really earnest. I'm sorry, something, something, tits, ding. From a personal perspective, I'm not a stupid man. I'm probably

You know, I've got, I'm a professor, I'm probably above average intelligence and sometimes I'm really, really quick. Definite double ding. Dang, yeah.

But in other ways, some of my ability to process information is phenomenally slow. It's treacle. And I think, yeah, sorry. No, no, no. Remember, you're not Sam and you don't have to indicate where my hand goes off. Yeah, that's true. You might be, I may be just discovering what you're about to say, but do you know which particular types of information you are slower at processing? And I think we should think about processing as more than one bell shaped curve.

Because people who are down on themselves see themselves by the one thing and extrapolate that to everything which isn't true, especially people who are incredibly empathic. You know, if they're not able to read, and then incredibly empathic, for me that's more valuable than likely to earn more money.

I know it's not about that, but as a society and at school and in lots of things, we accidentally value academic intelligence that I have over emotional intelligence, the ability to feel empathy that I really, really don't. And so I think that I am fairly clear on auditory processing. I'm horrible at horrible.

I'm partly working memory, but partly it frustrates the life out of me. I thought I was bad at languages and I'm really not. It's probably the thing that I'm best at, but I thought I couldn't do it. And one of the reasons was because they would play a video, a recording and a play twice and it says, Pierre goes into the bank and buys cheese and Sophie walks into the boulangerine and doesn't. And then they say, what does Pierre do? And I'm like, I don't know who that was.

and I would fail. And I thought it was because I hadn't understood the French, but I had. And it's not fair, and they still do it today when you have to take your German tests. It's really good at French and conversational German, speak Italian, bit of Latin, and I've done it in a different way. I've had to do it without auditory processing.

because I cannot do it. And I think that's the thing, but I also think linearly, when sometimes the way you think James creatively, aesthetically, sometimes you're better than me, I think, at creative thought. I don't understand it. If you just stop that sentence after the word me, you're better than me. Yeah, you're better than me. It's true. Not better, taller, sorry, taller, and older.

When I'm on stage or doing one of your little talks for you, medium size, I like the questions as well. But I can't do what you can do. I don't like it. I'm uncomfortable. So what I do, and this is my top tip, I absolutely stay on task and I don't apologise for it. Don't know is the first thing I will say. Great question. Don't know. I'll look it up or I won't.

I have really clear boundaries. You've said that before. I'm really clear what my boundaries are. I'm really clear. I prepare everything. So I always have a call message ADHD. It's fine because it's my hobby. But if somebody asks me a question that I haven't got the answer to, I just go back to that. That isn't a question I can answer right now.

I cannot do it. If I put myself in a position of having to think on my feet, especially if it's emotional, the doctor says something I haven't prepared in writing, what I'm going to say. I tell them about William Rufus or something. I find it very difficult to process. That was William the Conqueror's son, James.

I mean, I should have guessed really should not have to deal with with Regality. No, that's not a word. Is it? Yeah, he wasn't literally called Rufus. He had read how his surname was the second. Jesus Christ, surname was the second. He's done top tip is prepare on in writing. If you need to, clear on your main on the main things you want to hear.

write your boundaries down and write what you're able to say in advance and and ask people to check in with you if you're able to listen right now that's or to read right now or to if you're not ask for more time you know or a different time are you are you are you able to perceive me is it is fine for people to ask if you allow it that's it sorry I know it's too much

No time for the game. It was because I had to share a joke when he said it's the thing that I'm best at and I was going to say something like will shortest book but you spoke for like 10 minutes afterwards and as timing is everything in comedy I had to drop it and then obviously tell you I was going to tell that joke which is what I do with Sam when I'm going to buy a flowers and don't buy a flowers I'll actually come in and say nearly bought you some flowers today but then I didn't.

It's a thing, isn't it? Getting older is just each other saying what you nearly bought them for the birthday. Alex, we have got time for again, but for you, we'll keep it quick. We'll keep it quick. So I'm going to just read out what I've got written down, which is guitar. Guitar, which I brought with me to Brian for this little talk, but I can't play it.

I can't play, not because I can't play the guitar for once, but because I forgot something. So did I forget plectrum, it says? Or pick, if you prefer. Did I forget guitar?

Or did I forget the power supply for the thing which I need to use the pedals for the guitar? The stem of this question was I've brought my guitar with me to Brighton, which I've done it again. I've done it again. I've given you fucking Jesus Christ. Yeah, but we've established that a one in two shot is not a 50 50 chance.

Not for you. Fair, really. I think that you've got your big Dracula nails, so you don't need a plectrum, so it's power supply. That's why I think it's an electric guitar. Yeah, by virtue of, like, even you can play guitar without a plectrum. Yeah, I got it all out last night, but everything's set up. And again, when used compile, electric spectrum.

OK, you've got autistic spectrum condition, probably Alex. On that pathetic joke, we'll take a break and we'll come back for the last bit, which is answering questions, not our questions, your questions. I know she's not here, but we still do it seeing a bit. I've won one. Goodbye. No.

Welcome back to part three of episode one hundred and seventy seven of the adh channels podcasts where we're wafting on about ADHD and processing speed but not in this bit because this is where we answer your questions Alex do you have a question from somebody else? I'll see because I haven't written it.

Yeah, you found that right. Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah. This question is from Kyan. It says, I read that you can't take decks from Fatima over age 60. What happens to people with ADHD when they get into the 70s or 80s? James, is that likely true in the UK? It's it.

It's a good question because there's a lot of misinformation about ADHD and older adults and there actually there's some nice studies looking at ADHD through the lifespan and older adults and we've heard you know through the charity and through other people people being told you can't be referred if you're over 65 you can't be assessed if you're over 65 but we've also heard from 77 year olds who've been diagnosed and medicated

you would imagine that if this was genuinely a thing in the UK at least, if this was genuinely a thing, then in the nice guidelines for treatment, medication of ADHD, it would state alongside, if there are cardiovascular issues, if there's a previous history of X, Y, and Z, it would state an upper age limit. But there's nothing that I have seen in the nice guidelines, which I read through the other day that says that.

There are obviously, as we get older, increased chances of things like cardiovascular disease and probably increased side effects. And what we call polypharmacy, you're more likely to be on multiple medications as we get older, which can complicate things.

for people over the age of 65. But a recent study found that it was safe. So that gives us an indication that if people are being told that you can't have stimulants at that age, it's that lag between research and practice. I hope that's right. Alex, add some into it.

Yeah, I haven't heard of that either. I mean, obviously, there is a concern around the cardiovascular effects on us of Liz Decks and Fettamine, which is what they tend to prescribe now, rather than Decks, because Dex and Fettamine isn't as long lasting. So what about, could it be related to your chances of having heart issues or needing an ECG or blood pressure or something like that? So it's less likely maybe, I don't know.

We'll keep our eyes open, shall we, James? And have a look, it's a good question, guys. Yeah, we'll ask Nick as well, and see what he says. Nick Bridgeford, the Triple Threat Rocking Horse shit. That sounds like an acid thing, but if you can remember, Nick, he's ADHCG fiance. I can't actually say so. Yeah, yeah, and trusty of ADHCG, which is very helpful.

Yes. Right then, we've kind of dealt with that. So question two is from Dr. Wanna Do, which I love the name or also known as Adele. It says, loving the podcast as ever, you mention fights and flights in the stress episode. How important is it for neurodivergent folk to consider their response to stress in terms of freeze and especially for people pleasing as a stress response? Is there any research around this that you might recommend?

Alex. Oh, that's you as well, isn't it really? It's something you think about a lot, isn't it, these sorts of things, so you go. Yeah, so we have something called an autonomic nervous system. And that autonomic nervous system has two branches, the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system is boring. It is.

The sympathetic nervous system drives the fight or flight response. So that is getting you ready to deliver blood to muscles, dilating the pupils, increasing the heart rate, to get you ready to either run away or to fight. And the parasympathetic

Or bang, bang, bang. No, the opposite is the opposite. Yeah, it is, yeah, because that's rest and digest or feed and breathe. And the parasympathetic nervous system kind of as the opposite. So it moves blood towards the stomach so that you can eat towards the engorged organs and other genitals so that you might be able to engage in coitus. But there are

Other kind of aspects to these phrases, fight or flight, rest and digest feed or breed. So the freeze aspect of fight or flight is also known as attentive immobility. And that is that it's a fight or flight response, which has been put on hold.

It's a holding stage before you start to see the sympathetic nervous system kick in. And the foreign side of things that people pleasing as a stress response is more commonly associated with trauma than it is with ADHD.

but again, more research needed. There's also, if you're aware, something called flop as well. I wanted to say ding, yeah, well ding, but the freezing and flop aren't well researched in terms of neurology.

They're really not, and they're not well established in, so we criticize, don't we? Oh, why did you just freeze in a time of violence or threat, and we don't entirely understand it? And it feels like it could be a basal ganglia processing response, right? You make it, you know, you don't know what to do, so you don't make a physical decision. You just freeze, and it could definitely be part of processing, which is

bang on trend for this episode. It's really good. Thank you, James. Do you have any questions? Yeah, it's from Brian Brain. I didn't know it's from Brian Brain James. It's from, it's from, I'm Brian and so is my wife, which is modified reference if you're not old. And it says,

I couldn't sleep and I'm tired, so I don't have the energy to make this funny. Sorry, I know that's what you bellends are into. You're right. I want to know if there's any link between ADHD and compulsive secrecy. I find that when I'm stressed or overwhelmed by life, I will resort to secretive behavior like smoking and hiding it from my family. More than just a chemical dependence, it feels equally like an addiction to covering it up.

Is it common in the ADHD shit storm or am I just a basket case cheers fuckers? What a brilliant question. I take you from the tone that you said with that that you're going to pass that to me but I'm going to pass it straight back Alex and say

Yeah, I think it's I think it is more common. Well, it's not just ADHD, but it is more common. And I think it's partly because of the things you've said that the motivation and reward to uncertain anticipation of getting found out or doing something that may be a secretive risk measuring and all of those things. But I would also say that and I've said this many times before that people with ADHD don't tend on average to feel safe.

And when we don't feel safe, why in the name of all things holy would we share? So I think there's a difference between doing something that you know people won't like at them or secretively at and not sharing of things that you would normally share are two different types of secrecy. And I think the first one is a form of

if not self-harm then certainly an attempt to control and probably and the second one that not sharing is might be a form of stress, anxiety and lack of safety. That would be my guess but it's a really brilliant question that needs a bit more work. Go on James, you hit me with better science.

We've heard there's this. The two things that fascinate me, which you've heard a few times from people, one is the secrecy and the other is compulsive lying. And it's something that a lot of people kind of have asked about. Now, what I would say to I'm Brian and so is my wife is a fucking brilliant name because life of Brian is possibly the greatest film ever. Yeah, absolutely. And B, how do you feel when you do this?

Because for most people, guilt and shame would be the most likely drivers. There's going to be lots of times when people with ADHD know that they're doing something that maybe they shouldn't or that maybe they're not saying disclosing that they've done that because of the shame of being caught in a lie or doing something that they're not supposed to be doing. But

If you don't feel that guilt and shame and what you feel is reward for the secrecy, if you actually feel, if you like, that it's something that's giving you that sense of control and reward, then that's different from guilt and shame. So that's what I'd say is ask yourself, when I do this, how do I feel? Do I feel that the driver is guilt and shame or do I actually enjoy the secrecy part?

Can I ask you, James, when you, because we are oppositional, we're more likely to be oppositional, aren't we, people with ADHD? And that releases dopaminergic activity. Popaminergic. And of popaminergic. Yeah, that fuck you. I won't do what you tell me that. Yeah, I am what you say. I am feeling that, you know, the reason I loved

Like, Evan, Evan, people like that was a young man. I was like, yeah, fuck it. When you smoke and when you do things that you don't want to do, is that part of that? Yeah, we've said this before, it is self-harm. So I sent Alex a message the day after saying I quit smoking. And he was like brilliant. And then a week later, I sent a picture with a fag saying, quitting smoking is going well.

I'm dealing with the stress of mum and it's killing me to see Sam the way she is and just the stress of all that and I just turned to my coping strategy which is compulsive masturbation and occasional cigarettes.

So it's complicated, but a big part of it is self-harm. A big part of it, when I'm in, particularly if I'm in a low mood, is I will change smoke four or five cigarettes because it hurts my throat. And because that is a way, that's a way of me

feeling, if you know, it's a way of taking some of the thoughts away because I'm focusing on that. But yeah, the interesting thing for me is because I'm a binge eater that the secrecy there is definitely guilt and shame. So I do have this bias. Everybody's got biases, people, you need to acknowledge them. I do have this bias towards guilt and shame because of my binge eating. So when I binge eat and bury all of the rappers halfway down the bins, the Sam can't see them,

That is secrecy that's driven by guilt and shame. And I don't feel good when I do that, which is why I thought it was useful to ask. I'm Brian and so is my wife that question. Yeah, it's a really good one.

Right. Are we done? I think we do. Lovely. Well, that was episode 177 of the ADH Adults Podcast where just Alex and I, because Sam's being lazy, talked about ADHD and I know I'm going to get some peltas for that.

No, she doesn't know, but other people like her and they will give me help. I know that. Yeah, exactly. That was, which just reminds me as an aside, you know, in my Instagram promo, it says Least Popular Hosts of the ADHD adults podcast. Yeah.

No, that gets read out at seed talks workshops that I do as my introduction. And it's too brilliant. And during October, I did so many fucking talks and stuff and training. It was read out at two of those as well, which just reminds me of when I was on the Trish show and they said, she clearly hadn't read it before. And she said, the podcast, inexpertently, inexpertly covers ADHD with Alex, the psycho education monthly.

And you can see her face as she was reading it out. Like, what the fuck is this? That's amazing. It is amazing. It is. Anyway, if by the usual miracle you've enjoyed anything about this, then... What's wrong with you? Exactly. Well, we know that. Oh yeah. Then you can get in touch. There are forms on the website, adht adults dot uk, where you can send in letters, you can send in suggestions for topics, you can send in questions, there's details about the book, what we wrote.

which so far, unlike this podcast, hasn't had any bad pre-release reviews. That's looking good so far. Please don't review it as a horrible way for a joke. It's going to happen. Anyway, we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Bye all.

So you haven't proofread when I came up with the idea for ADHD and Pat James as a book. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't come up with a name. This is the podcast again, isn't it? This is the it was my idea for the podcast.

Was your idea for the book? Well, it wasn't, it was, it was me. No, but the original name was slightly different, but very similar. And I said to you, that name is just a placeholder and we'll change it for something that's not shit later on. I can, this may be positive illusory bias or something, but I can definitely remember saying that to you. Agree to disagree. I'm not wedded to this opinion.

vibe in you. The useful thing is that you can actually remember anything that's written in it because I can't remember a fucking word that's in that book. You haven't read it. You've wrote it. I never will. I never will. Seven mistakes when I proofread it just before the public, you know, I think that's good. Yeah. I wonder how many we've missed. Oh, we need some.