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Contact your participating dealer or visit fordservice.com for important details and limitations. Welcome to Otherworld, I'm your host, Jack Wagner. The episode you're about to hear is one that I've been working on for quite a long time, and it's one that I'm very excited about.
It comes from a woman named Jennifer and it took place about two decades ago when she was a young teacher starting out at a new school in Georgia. It's one of those stories that after I heard it, I couldn't stop thinking about. And honestly, the reason I started the show in the first place was in hopes of getting stories like this one.
I spent a good amount of time getting to know Jennifer this year, talking to her on the phone, on and off about this whole thing.
She is a very normal lady who really just had this one extremely abnormal saga take place in her life a very long time ago and then nothing similar ever again. It's been very fascinating being able to revisit these memories alongside of her over the last year.
In Onimity was very important to Jennifer. For that reason, we have changed some names and minor details of the story to protect everyone's identity. Let's get this episode started. I think you're all going to enjoy this just as much as I did. This is episode 103. The title is The Reader, part one, and you're listening to Other World.
Hello? Is this Bobby? What the deal? At its core, the science, you can't argue it. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,
My name is Jennifer and I am a middle school Montessori teacher. I teach Erdkinder, which is teaching students about animal husbandry and gardening. My story takes place when I lived in Savannah, Georgia. I grew up in Virginia. I have a brother and a sister.
And my parents were divorced when I was very young. My mom was from Poland. Kind of had a strict upbringing. My dad died when, I think I was like 11 years old. He was a merchant marine. There was a shipwreck in 1983. They were, the ship was caught in the storm and the ship sank. But,
A happy kid. I had great friends. School was a lot of fun. I went to the local college there and graduated. I waited tables. Just a nice, happy, non-stressful upbringing, really.
I was raised Catholic, but I wasn't sure if I believed it or not. I wasn't necessarily religious. I kind of had an open mind to everything. And I still do. I don't think I know an answer one way or another, but I just always just try to have an open mind about life and religion and all of that.
2007. I was in graduate school for a master's degree in education. In March I got married and in July my husband and I moved out of state. I wasn't finished with
My schooling, but I thought, okay, let me get settled first before I continue with my education. And I thought I would apply for a job at a public school. I always had an interest to be a teacher and especially with special ed children. I think I have more patience and understanding than most with animals and children.
I had the type of personality where I kind of stepped back and allowed them to be who they are. I'm certainly not a controlling person and I try to give, especially with my students, give them space to figure out who they are. And I've noticed
When I was in school and when I was growing up in particular that a lot of times, I don't know, adults kind of disappointed me and I felt like I was going through the system like a factory and nobody really took the time to ask me.
who I am or what really my interests are or what I'm really struggling with. So I feel like I have that in me and I try to impart that with the students that I've worked with. I allow them to make mistakes in their life. I try to allow them to figure out who they are.
and that making mistakes is okay and just kind of slowing down their life. So I know I'm not good at many things in my life, but I'm good at that. I'm good at patients and
allowing people to be who they are at this moment. And I guess the fact that most people with special needs aren't trying to pretend to be something that they're not and I find that to be so refreshing because I could be myself with them and we could both laugh and be vulnerable and just enjoy life at its purest without any kind of superficial nonsense attached to it.
Around September, there was an advertisement for a teaching assistant position in a middle school. So I applied for it, and a few days later, the principal called, I got an interview, and he explained to me that there's an eighth grade student who needed someone to work with her one-on-one, that she was on the autistic spectrum,
and needed somebody to help her with her homework, with her classwork, just being there for her throughout the day. So the principal and I walked down to the classroom, and I met the special education teacher, and I walked around the classroom, and then she introduced me to Jamie. When I looked at Jamie, I saw her, she was sitting with the other kids in the class,
8th grade girl, I think there's like 13 or 14 years old, dark hair, brown eyes, super cute. She kind of hunched over. She had her index fingers in her ears, kind of staring at the ground. And the lead teacher introduced me to her and she kind of looked up at me. She got up.
super sweet. She gave me a hug and I hugged her back and the lead teacher explained more of the responsibilities. She mentioned that Jamie was on the spectrum and she also had a neurological condition called apraxia which affected her
I guess her tongue, she wasn't able to form words. So she was essentially non-verbal. She could make sounds, but she couldn't form words. She also had a proxy that affected her fine motor skills and her gross motor skills. So she walked kind of with a clumsy gait, and her fine motor skills were affected like she couldn't hold a pencil, she couldn't button a button, open up a book. She was limited in that capacity.
The principal and the lead teacher said they thought I was a good fit for her that they would call me in a few days. And I was hoping I would get the job because I could, you know, as an eighth grade little girl, she probably needed a friend and I needed a friend. I was new to the area. So I was, you know, looking forward to just helping her in every way I could.
They offered me the job and I started a few days after that. The lead teacher kind of told me Jamie's typical schedule of the day. You know, in the morning, we would be in the special ed classroom to go over morning announcements. And then Jamie and I would walk to her math class. While Jamie was in math, I sat next to her.
opened up her backpack, got out her book. Well, I took notes and Jamie listened to the lesson. Then if I recall correctly, we went from math directly to English class. And I remember in English class, they were reading The Hobbit.
And it was the same sort of deal. I sat next to her, opened up her backpack again because her fine motor skills, she could not open up her backpack by herself, got out her books and took notes for her. Sometimes in English class, I would get the lesson and we would go to the school library so we could kind of spread out and use the computer. That's how we communicated with one another.
Jamie always carried a laptop with her. It was a special kind of laptop that she would type, and then if she hit a button, the computer would speak for her. Sometimes we didn't use that feature, she would just type a message. And I have to say because of her apraxia,
The way she typed was her hand was weak. So I would have to hold her wrist while she extended her index finger, and then she would hit the keys one at a time. So I was always holding her wrist while she typed. Otherwise, she just could not physically type on the computer.
But we always went to the school library even after classes just to either catch up on our homework or do her schoolwork.
All right, I just want to jump in and say, I asked Jennifer over and over again about how this typing worked because there are similar techniques used in the past with a keyboard, including something called facilitated communication that have been widely discredited as pseudoscience. When I asked her about this, Jennifer insists that this was not facilitated communication and that Jamie typed on her own unguided. Jennifer even explained that she would often not even be watching Jamie while she typed. Jamie would just do her schoolwork on her own.
This is such a strange story, but I wanted to be clear and acknowledge that. Let's get back to the episode. So on day one, I remember going to the computer and we were just chit-chatting. I would always ask her questions just to get to know her. You know, what did you have for dinner last night? Do you have any pets at home? What do you like to do and things like that?
You know, sometimes when I would ask her questions that she would only give me maybe one word answers, it was hard to figure out really who she was.
I kind of relied on her nonverbal. Like I said, she was very affectionate. In the hallway, she would always hold my hand. And that's how we mainly communicated with one another through that nonverbal. Because sometimes I felt that she didn't even maybe want to answer a question that I had. Sometimes she would just write nonsense on the computer. And I can tell, okay, she's not into chit-chatting this morning.
or it was hard sometimes to get her to open up. Sometimes I would tell her, like, Jamie, you're the best and you're so smart and she would hold my hand and look at me. Like, thank you. You know, that's the best way I can describe it. On the computer, she wasn't very forthcoming with her personality.
She never wrote like paragraphs about herself or she never opened up to me much about her personal life. Interestingly, like I said, she loved to sit in a rocking chair. She would do it all day, rocking and listening to music. And I remember I gave her in my car, I had the Moby CD of that CD play. And I said, see if you like this. And she used to listen to that CD all the time and just rocking her rocking chair.
That was her kind of her personality. When she did show it, she was super bright and funny. She would rip on people all the time, people in her class. Sometimes she would say, like, I can't believe that girl is wearing that skirt. She has no business wearing that. She would just rip on everybody. It was funny. She would type it out? Yes, yeah. What other things would she say about people?
in her special ed classroom. There were a lot of boys in there and some of them couldn't control, some of them would scream or make loud noises. Sometimes I would sit with her, there was a computer in there too. And sometimes she would start fussing. And so I would say like, what, why are you upset? Are the boys getting on your nerves? And she would write, yeah, I wish they would shut the fuck up, you know?
So stuff like that. That is funny. You know, just like that, you know, typical teenage, you know, judging people. Would it make you laugh? What would you be doing? Yeah, I would laugh because I thought it was really funny, especially coming from her. She wouldn't really look at people. She would kind of always look down. So I was surprised that she noticed some of the things that she noticed, particularly in what people were wearing.
One time she said, can I tell you a dirty joke? Like I said, this is part of her personality. And I said, Jamie, is this appropriate? And so she typed that on her laptop and it sounded like, can I tell you a dirty joke?
But the punchline for that was a white horse fell in a mud pit or something like that. That was her kind of sense of humor.
her memory was extraordinary. And I'm not sure why. Maybe because when we were, like I mentioned, we were reading the Hobbit and she must have remembered details about the Hobbit that I was thinking, wow, you remember that? Let me go back on page 27 to check or something along those lines. I had a sneaking suspicion that her memory was extraordinary. So I remember one time in class,
I picked up a dictionary and I just opened it up and showed it to her, put it in her face, like, look at this dictionary. And I could see that she was kind of like scanning it with her eyes. I said, OK, now you write down what was in the dictionary. And effortlessly, she was writing everything verbatim on that dictionary page.
You know, and that really taught me a lesson that we were reading The Hobbit and she got the character, she understood the story, she knew what was going on. And sadly, a lot of people just dismissed her as probably being unintelligent, but she was very intuitive, very bright, yeah, very smart.
I think most of the time the other students just saw her as invisible. They didn't really respond to her. They didn't acknowledge her. They didn't include her. And a lot of times the teachers as well, you know, if they're passing out papers, you know, a lot of the times the teachers wouldn't pass something to Jamie. And then when I would say, hey, you know, I need one of those, you know, and oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, we're just invisible.
when I think she knew it. I could tell, sometimes she would say that she was, that she was sad, that I'm, I'm no, just from knowing her as long as I did, that she wasn't able to express herself, that nobody, and especially since she couldn't speak,
And like I said, she wasn't stupid. She saw how people responded to her. And I know she picked up on that. For example, I remember we were reading the Hobbit in her English class. And the teacher was going from students to student. Everybody was reading about a paragraph. And even though Jamie
couldn't form words, she could still make sound. And when it got to our turn to read, you know, the teacher just naturally skipped Jamie without even asking like, hey, do you want to read? And so she skipped us and I said, hey, Jamie will read. And
So Jamie would look at the way I structured my mouth to form words. And she would make noises, make sounds. She kind of sounded like what a deaf person sounds like when they were trying to speak. But she was trying. And even one time in class, she read a paragraph of The Hobbit Out Loud. And the kids,
they clapped for her and it's like things like that and she was so proud of herself. And that was such a touching moment because God bless her man. You know, it's being her could not be easy, but she always tried and she like just was so desperate to, you know, fit in like a regular teenager and
So that was nice, that they clapped. And I, you know, that was such a special moment. And it was good for the other kids too, to see her as, hey, that she is somebody. And she's trying to do something even though it was difficult for her. I think it was a great lesson for everybody.
But yeah, overall, she was completely ignored. Nobody spoke with her. I mean, a couple of kids are interested and wanted to help, but primarily, you know, she was invisible. One time, I remember now that we're talking, she said, free me from this hell that I'm in.
All right, we have to go to a break. We'll be right back with the rest of the episode.
They were heavy footsteps, like it sounded like someone wearing a big pair of boots going, bump, bump, bump up the stairs. And this is where I made the biggest mistake. I said, what are you doing here? True stories, true terror. You can see me in the dark. Around like 2 AM, I feel like something kind of standing over me, and it's her. You can see me in the dark, wherever you get your podcasts.
I can't even begin to tell you how bad it was. It was Lord of the Flies in a building, and it was called Straight Incorporated. This is the story of Straight Incorporated, an experimental drug rehab for teenagers that infiltrated communities across the country in the 1980s during the height of the war on drugs. Where kidnapping, brainwashing, and torture were disguised as therapy.
It's the origin story of the troubled teen industry, which continues to profit from the desperation of parents and the vulnerability of their children. And its roots can be traced back to a cult called synanon. How do I know this? Because I lived through it. My name is Cindy Ettler, and this is season two of The Sunshine Place.
Listen to and follow the Sunshine Place, an Odyssey original podcast in association with Robert Downey Jr. and Susan Downey, available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.
I don't think she wanted to be in that situation. It was frustrating for her to be her. I remember we're at the school computer. And again, I was just asking her random questions just to get to know her better. I noticed that we had a lot in common based on her answers.
I remember asking her and I would ask her questions out loud. I said, oh, what'd you have for dinner last night? And she let me know that she wanted to respond. So I held her wrist and she held out her pointer finger and started typing that she had cream of wheat with applesauce on top. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's what I had for dinner.
I said, I didn't think anybody but me put applesauce in their cream of wheat. Weird. But I was elated that we had this weird thing in common. Maybe the same day or maybe the next day. Again, we were chit chatting in the school library on the computer and I asked her a series of questions and one of them was,
What did you do last night? She responded that she watched the Yankees game. And again, I got excited because at that time, I was watching the Yankees. That's when Derek Jeter was on Jiambi and we spent a few minutes talking about the game. Oh, did you see that play? I can't believe Jeter did this.
You know how it is when you're, when you watch something and somebody else watches it, it's kind of fun to talk about highlights. And I remember that afternoon during dismissal, her father came to pick her up and I said, oh, Jamie and I are both Yankees fans evidently. And he looked at me with a puzzled look on his face. And I said, didn't you guys watch the game last night?
And he said, no, we were not baseball fans at my house. And I was taken aback. And I said, oh, maybe she watched it in another room. And again, he was kind of like chuckling. He said, oh, the only thing Jamie likes to watch is like Teletubbies. And she watches like little kitty cartoons.
And I thought, oh, God, that's weird. I started thinking that something was different because little things that we were on the same page with, they kind of weren't adding up. And that awareness came when he didn't know what I was talking about with the baseball. So then something in my head told me there was just something
How would she know these things? Just something, it's like, you know, you're in your spidey sense. My spidey sense was going off.
I noticed day after day these little strange things that she would write to me, but that things that I was thinking that she would write down. But again, you try to find a logical explanation for everything, at least I do. I just thought we're spending a lot of time with each other and we're on the same page a lot of the times.
Sometimes she would say, and I remember this in particular, she said, oh, your husband is looking for cars today. And I said, how he is? And she said, yes, and the salesman is treating him like a child.
And we had a telephone in the homeroom classroom. So I called my husband. He answered, and I said, hey, were you by chance looking at cars today? And he said, yes, I was at a Mercedes dealership. But the guy, he was kind of like treated me like garbage because maybe because I'm young, and he wasn't really taking me seriously. So I got out of there.
And he said, well, how did you know? And I said, well, Jamie told me. And he said, that's really weird. Sometimes she would when we were sitting down doing work. I remember one time she said, how come you have sticks in your living room? And I said, well, those are walking sticks. I just, I collect them. She knew and asked about the things that I had in my house, which was
very unsettling. When the flit hit the shan is one day, it was in the morning, we were in the school library again, and she let me know that she wanted to tell me something. So I grabbed her wrist, she put out her finger to type something, and she wrote, oh, I know what your social security number is.
And I thought, okay, here we go. Jamie was super bright. She had a great sense of humor. So I thought maybe she was like setting me up for a joke. So anyway, she then proceeded to type in my social security number, exactly. And I said, how did you know that?
And she typed something like, you weren't in the classroom and your pocketbook was there. And I got up and I opened up your pocketbook and I opened up your wallet and I noticed your Social Security card. And I knew that that was bullshit because the nature of her disability, she could not open up a pocketbook.
a wallet, and then go through my cards. And I don't even think I had carried my social security card with me. I don't remember, but I never did. I don't. And when she was in her homeroom classroom, all she liked to do was rock in a rocking chair with headphones, with her music playing, or her fingers in her ear. She just was not the type to get up
She never took the initiative to get up to do anything. So for her to say that she got up to go to my pocketbook,
Then I started thinking that there is more to this girl and these series of random things that we had in common, these coincidences, that she was eating the same food as me. And we were thinking alike and the New York Yankees and then the Social Security number, I mean, something was going on with her. What was your reaction to this?
I think I asked her. I said, how did you know that she said it's a trick that I play? It's just a trick. Oh, so I thought, okay, maybe since I'm holding her hand in typing, I thought, am I writing the numbers? I'm starting to doubt myself because I am holding her hand.
So I thought, OK, maybe I'm doing it as sick as that sounds. Maybe I'm guiding her towards the answer. So I was a little scared because I know I wasn't, but I started getting a little frightened. After that, I remember
calling my sister, my sister lived out of state. And, you know, I kind of always like caught her up on the Jamie situation because of all these little coincidences that were happening. And I remember I called her up and I told her about the Social Security number, like, what do you make of this? And she's like, I don't know. But I remember my sister said, like, I wonder what else she knows about you.
And I thought, God, what else she knows about me? I just, that kind of stuck in my head. The following week, I only had my job for like two, maybe three weeks. We were sitting at the computer and I think that I remember the eighth graders went on a field trip that day, except Jamie stayed behind. So we were in the library a lot of the time.
I remember working on The Hobbit and there were chapter questions that we were answering. So I was at the computer. I think she was reading her Hobbit book and I was doing work on the computer and I was wearing a charm bracelet. And she was kind of distracted by it. She was touching it and kind of like making little noises about the bracelet. And in my mind, I remember thinking, huh, I wonder if Jamie would like to wear this bracelet today. It seems like she really likes it.
And then she tacked me and like, she wanted to tell me something. So I grabbed her wrist and she began typing, no, I don't wanna wear your bracelet. Your husband gave that to you. Then I knew she could, she was reading my mind. I was just thinking that and she was responding to what I was just thinking.
I remember what my sister said. I wonder what else she knows about you. So in my mind, I asked that. I said, Jamie, what else do you know? And as soon as I asked that question in my head, her breathing changed. She was like breathing a little faster. She started typing fast and
She started typing, I know your dad died on his ship and she started talking about how my dad died in specifics. Again, I never, my dad died in like I said in 1983. I never talked about the way my dad died, why would I, you know,
And she said, he's here with us right now. He looks tall and fearless. He looks old. And again, she's typing this out and I'm reading it. And I just, I don't even know how to describe the way I felt. She, going into detail about
the way my dad died, almost immediately, as if he was describing his death in the manner in which he died. Mentioning water, he died on his ship. There was water everywhere. And those sentences with water, ship, it was cold. I felt like I was in a dream.
I think that she typed out a paragraph about my dad and it was, she was typing about my dad and then it would kind of switch as if my dad was talking. Then I remember the bell ring and she kind of snapped out of it. She was kind of like, you know, kind of in a trance, I would say. And I remember I didn't say anything to her. I didn't know what to say. We went back to her, her home room.
I didn't know what to think. I was a little frightened. You know, when something like that happens, you question your reality. And I was just walking throughout the day like a zombie questioning, thinking, what the hell just happened? That can't be real.
And even my coworker, when she saw me right after that, she said, what's wrong with you? Look like you just saw a ghost. That's exactly what she said to me. And I was thinking, lady, I did. Jamie went and sat on her rocking chair. She was rocking back and forth. And I remember I was just sitting in a chair like, what the hell just happened?
And this continued every day messages from my dad. This is crazy. I still can't believe it. It happened every day. She was kind of like in a trance when she was typing. And I've never seen her type so fast before. So again, I'm holding her wrist while she's typing, typing fast, fast, fast.
making like noises, her breathing shallow, as if something was controlling her. That's now that I'm thinking about it. It's like something was controlling her. Focused, like trying to look at something, trying to concentrate. And her typing was never clearer.
Sometimes when she typed, she would forget to put the space bar in there. But when she was typing messages with my dad, the spelling was correct. The spacing was correct. And one of the words, you know, my dad liked the piano player Rachmaninoff. That was spelled correctly. What eighth grader knows Rachmaninoff? And you have printouts of some of these, right? I have about...
Eight or nine pages, yeah. I have her name is on the corner. It was October 31st, the Hobbit study question, so we're working on that. And then she proceeds to type, your dad really wants to talk. I see him right here.
He looks tall and fearless, really old. Your dad is telling me to tell you he's not ready to leave today. He loves you, young daughter. You're welcome. I think in my mind, I said, oh my God, thank you, Janie. Yes, please play rock mononoff. Will you play it for me?
Jamie is a sweet angel. She found us because she knew we would need each other. And then she wrote, yes, he's very happy. I think in my mind, I wanted to, I asked him, are you happy? Are you okay? Your husband is nice. You two make a good couple.
And then I must have said, because Jamie looked tired, you know, as you, this kind of, this really wore her out. And I, I must have thought that in my mind, like Jamie, she looks exhausted and she wrote tired. Yes. She, and then she does, um,
Good work, you are a good teacher and you're very kind. And then he said, tired, goodbye, reflect on everything I tell you, love you. Another one, she wrote or he wrote, he wants you to know that he really yearns to hear you play the piano.
I see you playing the piano to play rock monanoff very well. You used to play like your grandmother. My mom used to play your grandmother. What was it like speaking to your dad? It was.
You know, like I said, my dad died when I was really young and my parents were divorced when I was three, so I really didn't know him. But I changed my life because I didn't realize how much I missed him.
until this happened. And I really didn't think that he really cared about us. He moved on, you know, when he divorced my mom. He had a new wife, a new child. And I just, I thought, here's this man coming from somewhere, where I don't know.
did tell me that he loves me. And that's made all the difference in my life. And it's not like I had daddy issues or I missed him. I had a nice life. It was so comforting to me. And I didn't realize I needed that. A comfort. You know, I guess we
all need like the love of our parents. And when my dad told me that he's proud of me, I didn't realize like I was so nice to hear. It's just a miracle. And like I said, it's just life changing. That after that, and I know my
that my dad is okay and somehow that life goes on, that I don't stress about the small stuff in life anymore, you know? Life is good. That there are mysteries in this world that we have no idea of what they are, but it's pretty cool.
It's really cool. And you know, it wasn't just my dad coming through. It was like the floodgate was open.
All right, that brings us to the end of part one. We'll be back with the rest of Jennifer's story in part two.
I'm sure you understand by now why I was so blown away by this. It's such a wild story. And maybe the wildest part for me is that Jennifer still has so many of the original papers where all of this communication took place. It's been completely surreal to have seen these with my own eyes and read the conversations of these two going back and forth.
Most of them start out as a normal classroom assignment, answering questions on a worksheet or something like that, and then suddenly it'll take a sharp turn. Another fascinating element of making these episodes for me was that sometimes Jennifer would find a folder of old papers in a box that she forgot about, and it would remind her of even more details from back then. One thing that I went over again and again with Jennifer on was how the typing worked.
And I just want to point this out. Jennifer says that she would help Jamie lift her arm up to the keyboard. But then after that, she would be typing completely on her own. Jamie would be typing this unassisted with her fingers. I think that's a very important detail to point out. Something I want to make very clear. Jamie was typing this stuff on her own.
This story is not over. We'll be back in part two with the rest of Jennifer's story. This has been episode 103. The title is The Reader, part one. And you've been listening to Otherworld.
Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans. This episode was edited by Theo Krantz, and engineered by Theo Shafer. Our artwork is by Coldusac Studios. Nikki Kate Delgado is our associate producer, production help by Haley Pearson.
Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review, and telling your friends about other world. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash other world. Our social media is at OtherworldPod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Burman, Leah Reese Dennis, Rob Miranda, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Moore Curran, Josephina Francis, and Hillary Shuff. Follow and listen to OtherworldNow for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at stories at otherworldpod.com.
