Ep 272: Derren Brown

Welcome to the Off-Menu podcast, Peeling the Carrot of Conversation. Ooh, carrots. It's just peeling the carrot. Yeah, just raw carrot. Having a raw carrot. I'm not a popper. Yeah.

It's the final episode of the series. The final one, but not the final one ever, I predict. God, no. That is a gamble, my name is James Acre. So this is the off-menu podcast in every single week. We invite the guest for our dream restaurant and ask them the favorite ever start a main course dessert, side dish and drink, not in that order. And this week, I predict that our guest will be... Devon Brown! Lovely bit of business from you there, James. Yeah, pretty good. People didn't see it, but I put my fingers to my temples when I predicted it. Yeah, like a mentalist. Like a mentalist. I am a bloody mentalist mate. Ask my mates.

I'm your mates. That's a gamble. I'm a gamble. That's James Acaster. Welcome to the Offamending Podcast. We're excited to talk to our very special guest, the wonderful Darren Brown. Trej, National Trej. It's a national trej, and we grew up watching Darren Brown. Yes. And I think it was a similar feeling to when we had Louis Faroo on. If I remember them arriving on the scene, the TV scene.

watching their early stuff and watching it right through to the modern day. I feel like I've watched everything they've done. It's evolved amazingly as well. It's just incredible live shows as well. Yeah, very excited to have Darren on. I'm Benito. This is obviously Benito doesn't talk on the podcast, but I just think the listeners should know he loves magic. That's why he's called the great Benito because he was a magician when he was a little boy and he loves Darren Brown. I think it's just good to know in that in this episode.

How much Benito's loving it? So Benito will hate it if we have to ask Darren Brown to leave the restaurant. He would hate it. And we've chose the very always explain why we've chosen it. Yeah. But the secret ingredient, which will get Devin Brown kicked out of the dream restaurant is mini roles.

I can't figure out how he did it. It was a trick, I guess. I guess you call it a trick. Magic trick. I guess you call it magic trick with the League of Gentlemen, all four of them. And there's a whole bunch of different moving parts to the trick, but they basically come in the room. They each pick a mini role each off of the plinth. The last person has to take two because there's one extra.

They all sit down on some chairs, random leaders, sit wherever you like. Then he mixes some envelopes up on the table, says they all pick an envelope, and then they open their envelopes, and their envelopes each say, you will pick, and then a color, different color. And then he says each of you reach under your seats, and they've all got a piece of card that corresponds to the color. So that's bonkers. And then that could have just been the trick. And I would have been like, that's pretty impressive, because that seems random. And then he gets to explain the whole trick.

And then he gets into open the mini-voles and they all eat their mini-voles. And then there's that one spare one that was left. And then he's like, open that one. And he gives them some protective gloves. And then they open it and there's a razor blade in it. Yes. Could have killed someone. That's scary, man.

It's scary. I always think about it. I don't know how we did any of that. The thing is, James, I know we're going to pick. We're picking many roles as a secret ingredient, but I know you really want to talk to Derek Brown about that many roles thing. So that feels unfair. Well, I'll wait until the end. Okay. I'll wait until after we've done dessert. Yeah. Okay. And I'll say deal. How'd you do that many roles? But also I want to do a magic trick on him.

Okay. I love it when he does predictions. Yeah. I think we should predict his dream menu. Yes. Write it down. Yeah. Put it in an envelope. We'll do that. Put it in the middle of the table. Yeah. We don't touch it for the whole thing. Yeah. At the end, we get him to open it. We don't touch it. Yeah. And then we can see if we've predicted this dream. We'll do that. We'll write out his dream money before he gets here. Yeah. Magic trick. It's going to be helpful. We got this. Isn't nobody needs a magician? No. So we know what we're doing.

Yeah. You know what you're doing right, Benito? Benito knows what he's doing. He's got the magic. So hopefully you won't choose mini-walls because otherwise you won't be able to do the magic trick at the end. No. Or maybe the envelope would say, you will get kicked out. Also, I really want to speak to Darren Brown, so I hope he doesn't get kicked out. Yeah, yeah. Maybe if he does get kicked out, we'll just re-record this bit and say it was something else, say it was radishes or something.

Tickets for Darren's next show are on sale now at darrenbrown.co.uk. He doesn't need our help. He doesn't need our help, but you know, maybe you do this. Maybe you need our help in order to get the tickets before everyone else. Yes, I predict you will get the tickets. I predict some of you will get the tickets. This is the off-menu menu of Darren Brown.

Welcome, Darren, to the dream restaurant. Hello. Welcome, Darren Brown, to the dream restaurant, but it's been you for some time. I have been waiting to come on for some time. This is so exciting. Thank you for having me. We're very excited. We're very excited. I'm very excited. Although what I sense with your genie explosion there. Yeah.

You sort of held it back a little bit. No, I didn't. Did I? Yeah. Well, I've got a kaburp trapped here, and I didn't want to burp at Darren. No, that would be an uncomfortable way of starting a not-interview chat. Yeah. Yeah. Another chat. And it's quite rude to start. I think I'd have to just, like, excuse myself and just let YouTube chat.

I mean, leave the room. And Darren is excited to be here, and I think that would have maybe killed the vibe straight away, if James had burped on you. It would have just started things off on a slightly off note, but you could have stopped and started getting, because it's so early in the chat. Yes. It's early enough in the chat. It's early in the chat. Do you like chats in general? I like a chat. Yeah. I like a chat. This is very nice. I've listened to many of your chats in the car. You're my go-to in the car chat. So this is very lovely being here in the actual room where it happens.

Yes. Now, do you want to, like, some people like to imagine the dream restaurant and what it looks like? I didn't imagine this. You wouldn't imagine this. It's an enormous grand... Well, it's like the foyer of a very expensive hotel, isn't it? Is that how you describe it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. It's gorgeous. Thank you for having me. When we ask people to imagine that, you're probably going to get a lot of questions like this from us because we haven't had anyone in your line of work on the podcast before it's very exciting because I haven't had a mentalist on the podcast. Now, when we ask people when they come on, what's your dream restaurant? Yeah. And they give an answer. If you heard those answers, would you be able to say what that says about them?

Oh, I suppose so a little bit. Yeah, I never do this stuff in real life. I kind of like it's become a real sort of like it would be exhausting to go around being that guy. Yes. In real life. And also I'm quite I'm over the years got quite interested in in stoicism and the whole thing of stoicism, you know, not to try and control the things that are outside of your control. And yet that's exactly what my job is.

that. So yeah, probably with a bit of thought that I try not to use my magical skills in everyday life. But I mean, you're someone who likes a chat famously. Love a chat. Do you feel like when you're chatting to someone for the first time, are they constantly on guard as if you are you are trying to? Yeah, I had a friend who's now a very good friend who actually I'm seeing immediately after this podcast. And I found out quite a way into our relationship that it was a good few times of us meeting before he could actually just relax and have a normal chat like this. Yeah, because he thought

what I was constantly doing. I don't know what people have said, I don't know what it is that he'd find into his brain or something. But I'm climbing into his brain and judging or whatever, yeah. I really don't. I'm very, no, but I mean, it's a concomer to your work is, you know, the work's excellent. So we always get, yeah, with people, those go like, oh, I'm going to put this in your act, aren't you? And we're not. And we're not thinking that about them at all. But with you, it must be a much more extreme version of that of like, you're probably going to make me kill Stephen Fry.

Yeah, that is, I had a lot of, I think pretty much every time I, if I go into a shop and ask how much something is, I get a lot of, oh, you should know, shouldn't you? Like that's like, I've lived with that one for a very long time. Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty standard response, isn't it? Yeah. To anyone. Yeah, to anyone. That's just rude. You should know. What the hell? Didn't you do one when you went in and you, and you tricked them into thinking the price was less. Have you done that or might make yourself up in my head now?

No, no, no, that's something I would have done. I was paying for stuff with paper in New York and seeing how long I could do that for. That's a laugh. Yeah, I got away with that. Sometimes, if you kind of do it confidently enough, I think it must have felt like they'd missed something. And I think that's quite an interesting space when you just sort of feel

bewildered and like you slightly miss something and you're not, and somebody comes up to in the street and says, you know, it's not 20 to four. Your reaction isn't to go, yeah, I know it's half seven or whatever. You sort of feel like you've missed something and it's a very, very powerful place to put people in if you, like, you know, if you're someone's aggressive to you in the street, I mean, if they're running you with a knife is different, but if they're like intimidating you and you come out with that sort of stuff or come out with the song lyric or something, it completely changes the dynamic. And does their feeling of,

power and I've got out of, you know, a couple of potentially violent situations. So yeah, that's the confusion.

I thought on the tube the other day, I did that. There was a lady on our carriage who was yelling at everyone very, very loudly about how we're all going to die one day and we're going to go to hell if we don't accept Jesus. And I was standing up to leave and she was shouting it, directed at me. And I just went, is this the right train for Wilson Green or not? Do you know? And she just looked at me like, what the fuck? And then I just walked up and she was there inside. That seems like a good way of dealing with it.

Yeah. I asked them something normal and they're like, Jesus said I should help this person, but I don't want to answer the question. Did she answer the question? No, she just stared at me like I was mad. Well, you suddenly brought her into normal society, but she should be doing on a cheap, right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you tell us the right thing? Right. That's good, actually. That's quite pleased. Yeah. That's impressive. That's, yeah, actually. I think a song lyric is a good one as well. If you've got something obviously that you can just go into confidently as if it starts to make sense, just not in context with a situation.

What's a go-to song limit for the further? My go-to phrase is the wall outside my house isn't four foot high. I just thought a song lyric was an easy thing to say to somebody if you rather. But yeah, that's my go-to. It works. That's not a song. No. It's not a big song. You're saying you're really thinking those terms all the time. You spend a lot of your time doing painting as well.

I've sort of, I've taken a bit of time off, or at least as we're recording this, I've had a good chunk of time off, probably by the time this goes out. I shall be touring, but I've been painting at home. I paint portraits and I put them on my website and sometimes people buy them.

But when they're walls and things, which is nice, so that's a really lovely, that's kind of what I do in my real life, as opposed to controlling people. But I am writing, yeah, starting to get my head around a new tour for next year. Can I say the title? Because I only know the title, isn't it? It's called Only Human. And as we talk now, only human is only a title. I haven't written a word of it. And you must have had this situation yourself where it's out there being marketed and people are buying tickets, perhaps, and you have no idea what the first

People say I've got to take it on there on the first night in the front row. You want to go you've you've done more for this show. Yeah, exactly. I've still got used to over 20 years of doing it, but it's always a little odd. Do you have that panic when there's nothing or do you know the rhythm of building a show so much now that you just know it's going to be fine.

Yeah, exactly. We have a month of writing, then a month of rehearsing, and then it starts, and it's the sort of thing. And I guess with Stan, I guess probably with any, even just a play, you expect to change a lot once you get it on his feet. But I mean, I really don't know what will work, just technically what will work until there's an audience, because a lot of the stuff I do needs a thousand people to watch it, because then they're only going to work with maybe a few percent of that.

like there's just no way of knowing, so it's always a nervous start. But yeah, that rhythm of making it and just going through the first couple of weeks of, one of the shows Miracle was faith healing in the second half. But every time you go and see a faith healing, there's evangelical types. You're going there as a believer, and I knew my audiences would be not believe any of it and not be ready for it, not have that psychological preparation for it or anything. So yeah, it can be a bit nerve-wracking at the start.

Do you then have to re-engineer how you, I mean, I know you've won these foods, you can't really like reveal how you do these things, but like, do you have to like go, okay, that's 100% in it, but I'm going to try and like, have to treat them a different way because they're different. Yeah, exactly. Well, I have to not use so much, but I have to find ways of sort of saying, yeah, this is like, this is what the charlatans would do. Or this is kind of, this is stuff that's fate. And I'm just going to do that now. Like you have to kind of set a certain parameters around it, I guess. So people, people are on side, but

I was mad, actually, that one. I remember in the first week, somebody came up and they'd been paralyzed down there, left hand side their bodies and said, we're a kid. And she was a lady in her 40s and she's in floods of tears because she can move her arm like for the first time. And I haven't done anything other than just words, but just that, but the adrenaline in the situation and the kind of

It's the psychological component of suffering, like nothing's changed if you x-rayed her before and after clearly, nothing's changed. But yet her whole relationship to this pain that she'd live with her just massively altered. So that was an amazing show to do, actually, tonight, tonight, just the sort of things that people would respond to.

After that, though, do you think I should just do that all the time? I did. I really did. I thought, and I could do it in a secular way. Like I could say, this is just what it is. And there's no, I could say all of the things I just said to you, but I could probably pack out a stadium. Yeah. And then I realized that's how you start to go. That's mad. But it feels really plausible at the time. I don't know. This works. This is a service that I'm providing. I'll be one of the good ones. I'll be one of the real ones. Yeah. Yeah.

I would seem way more adverts for things like that on the side of buses now, like the O2 Arena, like big church meetings and stuff. There's loads of adverts for it. And it's always the shiniest looking men. Very short. Yeah, really short. A lot of white suits. And I've been to a few of those things sort of incognito. It is amazing what a weird world you're stepping into because it is

Not to offend anyone that's into this kind of thing, but if you're as an outsider sitting there, it's a weird mix of sort of amazing and kind of disgusting at the same time. It's a strange, the venn diagram of those emotions, it's odd to be in the middle of that, but it's such a closed world and they really go for it. I remember seeing Saint Paul.

kid like a six-year-old girl on the stage being exercised of demons and the adrenaline and the whole thing of it was sort of amazing but it was also kind of really gross at the same time as well so yeah it was a very odd

Odd world. And when you go to that, are you like, are there certain things that you're watching and going, oh, I can incorporate that into what I'm doing? Or are you going just to kind of understand? Like, yeah, exactly what I was doing. I was kind of researching and sat there with glasses on on a baseball cap. Well, you've already noticed, but you haven't spoke to us about it. But for the listener, I don't think you weren't here when me and Darren walked into the studio. Yes. You saw what we're about to describe and went, all right.

There's an envelope that says prediction on it and a pen. We would like you to sign across the seal bit of the envelope on the back. We've made a prediction that we will reveal at the end of the podcast. Oh, OK, that's exciting. Yeah, so we can't do anything with it. You can put it wherever you like as well. You have to put it in front of you. I'm putting it in front of me. So, yeah, yeah, put it right there.

Wow, we did it on me. Good, isn't it? Pretty good. We don't do this for everyone. No, well, I would make this as hard choice as it is for anyone else. I've never noticed this in the podcast. We always start with still us park the border, don't we? Do you have a preference?

Yeah, well, sort of. So I don't have any very strong feelings about it, but I do like it. I like a San Pellegrino. San Pellegrino is kind of soft and kind of, but yeah, I don't like that kind of aggressive, bubbly, you know, it should be a simple act of hydration, not a surprise sneezing fit.

Yeah, only where it goes. So, yeah, I don't mind too much, but I think I'd probably go, I would probably go, still. And not too cold. And I don't like the jugs that are full of ice and lemon, as they go up in your drink. Yeah. Is it the propping that you don't like?

It's the plopping. It's really unnecessary. And also, I've got sorts of warming up and things before shows. And you know what? It's like you don't want cold water for that, because it's kind of a shock to throw it. So I quite like a sort of tepid water, like Ben's given me here. And lovely tepid. It's your guests, a kind of room temperature.

It is to be fair, there's nothing plopping in your drink. I didn't get offered a choice of still or sparkling. No, that's weird, isn't it, that we don't offer a guess the choice of still or sparkling in real life. No, it's all fake. That is weird, actually. I've never thought about that, but it is weird that we was keeping some tap water and then we say, would you like still or sparkling?

as a hypothetical. We've not talked about the plopping a lot before. We've not talked about how much it plops when there's stuff in there, especially the ice. And when ice gets caught in like the lip of a jug, you're not sure when it's going to plop in, but it always plops in at the least convenient moment. Well, and also it sort of diverts the water stream. Yeah. And then someone gets the lemon and then no one else has got any lemon. Yeah. Yeah, that's all. That's all really annoying. But you should get the lemon because you're Darren Brown.

You can know how to get it every time. I always reach in with you. Just take it. That's kind of a restauranty thing, isn't it? There are many restauranty things. Well, not many. A few restauranty things I don't. I don't care for, and that's certainly one of them. Do it out a lot. I do, yeah. I like food. I'm definitely a foodie, but I actually...

decided to opt for a sort of home restaurant situation today. I don't like them. I wait to point at your food. I don't like it when they get really close with their finger. Maybe this is just like a nicer restaurant thing.

But is anybody else brought this one up? No, I'm not sure. We're not at the point. Okay. All right. I'm going to work alphabetically through my English. So yeah, that thing with the finger, when they come in, they go, this is a carrot, and this is a, and they're pointing, and they're not actually touching the food because you can slide a sheet of paper between the fingers. Let's prove it. But that's an annoying habit that I don't like. It's sort of like, it's like, it's like an operation game. It's like that.

where they hover it just just above. Yeah. Have you ever been tempted to get your plate and just move it up really quickly? So their finger goes right. You have to grab the whole time. No, no, no, you could do the whole time. No, you'd, you'd, you'd grab the plate. And I haven't done that, but that would defeat the point because contamination is the risk. But then you'd get a new one, right? But they'd be so embarrassed. Well, they'd give you a new one if you'd take lovely to the finger. I tell you who would struggle with that, Martin Freeman. If they would, he can't even lift a plate. Oh, he was on my show being weak. I say, I thought you were just being mean about him. No, no, no.

Don't go to lift a plate. You can just say Darren went on the room, James. Don't put a phone on the back of his neck. He told him all the stuff about crystals. He said this is really powerful. He couldn't lift the things up. He couldn't lift a pencil up. That's right. He couldn't lift a plate up. It was embarrassing. It's a plate with like a sandwich on it.

That's right. God, yes. Isn't it nice, man? We watched all your stuff, man. You've done your research. We know it all. But when you're doing something like that with something like Martin Freeman, are you like, you're going to make it look so weak on TV? You're loving it. I think anyone remembers that. I think anyone's ever mentioned the making Martin Freeman weak.

That's very, that's very niche. It's a good one. Yeah. It's a good one. Maybe he mentions it. Maybe he mentions it. I think we had him on the podcast. Maybe we did bring it up. I don't know if we bought it up or not. He was very well dressed. Yeah. Very well dressed. It was doing lockdown. So we're on Zoom because of it really. Well, I haven't surprised if you still look pretty good up there. But I like that your interpretation of it wasn't Martin Freeman embarrassed when he came out and said he was weak. But he probably just thought, oh, I'm on a Darren Brown show and Darren's done a trick on me.

Now, because Darren afterwards, when Darren told him all the stuff, when Darren was like, all that stuff I told you was nonsense, by the way. You could tell he was like, I'm just a weak man. In his eyes, he was like, oh, no. You've given my whole spiel about how the energy in crystals is the same as I'm managing the phones. I'm really trying to remember what it was. It was so long ago. The vibrations in the phones are the same as the vibrations in the crystals. I'm going to put it on the back of your neck now, Martin. Now try and lift this. It can't lift a plate. It can't lift a pen.

Ultimately, I'm clever than you. It's the bottom line of anything. That's the take-home. That's the take-home, especially for Martin Freeman. Stronger than Martin Freeman. He's stronger than Martin Freeman. Stronger man than you. Pop-lumps of bread! Pop-lumps of bread, don't you, Brown? Pop-lumps of bread! Please, Jesus! The bread! I'm going for the... There's a agree. I used to live not far from Dulston, and there is a place they're called the Dusty Knuckle, and it's... Do you know it? Yeah, yeah.

And I found out many years later that they employ, I think, as people, ex-prisoners perhaps. Which, given it's got a slightly charitable edge to it, you might expect that to sort of take the edge off the quality of the bread, if anything. But it does look like bread's amazing. It's a great focus and the charity focus. Yeah, exactly. So I fell in love with that when I lived.

in London, haven't had it for a while, but they're sourdough. Of late, I've been in Bristol a lot recently, and the Hart's Bakery in Bristol also does a very good. They also readge the veg, which is the world's greatest...

It's the hearts, the one that's under, like, ten per minute, you come out and go down there, phenomenal place. The arserestles, I often do. That is definitely a really, really good. Great sausage rolls. Very good sausage rolls. Yeah, I love that place. It's brilliant. Oh, there you go. There you go. So, yeah, I'd go for a really good...

sourdough. Nice sourdough, yeah. It's sort of the hips of the bread bowl, doesn't that sort of hate myself saying it? It is tasty though, isn't it? That's the thing. Water, warm butter, yeah, none of the oil nonsense, yeah, yeah, warm and butter, a little bit salt, cracked salt, and that lovely. I never know whether, when it's warm, you feel like just cooked it, it probably isn't, they probably just stick it in the microwave for a bit, warm it up, but yeah,

for the dream you want out, you know, just cooked, right? We weren't microwaving in the dream restaurant. No, you wouldn't do that. It wouldn't be a microwave in the dream restaurant. This is all, all bread is fresh out the oven. Yeah. Wow. Have you ever baked yourself? No, not myself.

That's the next TV show. Yeah, that's a finale. You're still writing this show. It's live show. Tonight, you bake yourself. You bake yourself. I tried to... I had the lockdown thing. I tried it like I did a lemon drizzle and a couple of things. And then that was it.

Did you embrace... Didn't do any baking, realised very quickly that shops were still open and stuff. You could go and get a loaf of bread. You could buy your own. Way easier. You mainly did barbecue in. I did a lot of barbecue. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I'm making rotisserie chicken quite a lot in the moment. I've got rotisserie in my new oven. Nice. That's nice. That is fun. Do you find... I would find it very easy to just watch it. Yeah, you do. You put the light on, you just sit and watch it. You have a stool or a cushion. Listen, I don't want to keep on chipping in ideas for you.

You've got to find new ways of hypnotising people. You've got to watch a rotisserie chicken. You go into a trance that way. Yeah, that's not a toy, isn't it? A giant chicken, clearly fake, but a giant chicken on stage, rotating. And they get hypnotised, and then when they hypnotise, you swap them with the chicken and then they wake up and they're spinning on the spit and you're like,

And is it all chickens in the audience now? The audience is for the chicken's headless, because how are they watching? You haven't thought this through? No, I haven't thought it through. But they're headless at first, then you restore the heads with Mac. I love us, we're talking. Ben's just like making notes. Every time Ben writes stuff down, you know, yeah. Well, no, Ben's probably writing down the idea for the trick, and then he's going to do it himself.

Ben used to be a magician when he was a little boy. It's why his nickname is the Great Benito. Because he called himself the Great Benito. He had a waistcoat and a magic box and everything. And we put on magic tricks in the living room, called himself the Great Benito. So he probably is writing down ideas for his magic show.

Do you ever have that in your shows? Can you ever look out and spot a magician in the audience? Like a fellow and go, oh, they're watching this differently. And I'm not sure. They make notes like Ben does. Yeah, gags and things. And they write them down. It's a little bit annoying. Maybe sometimes you look out to the audience and there's a evangelist preacher doing the opposite of what you do. They're there in the cap and shades and they're getting ideas. So when they exercise a six-year-old. Yes.

Your dream starter. Right. Well, I'm at home doing my own cooking here. This is integral to the set up. But yet, the restaurantiness means, I guess, someone else is washing up and doing all that stuff. But I've got very nice lobster risotto that I make. Before, though, going into this, Parmesan and red wine. I years ago read in an interview with Christopher Walken that that was his favorite snack.

Oh. And I tried it. I thought it was quite nice. And just of late in Venice, I had really good parmesan, like at least sort of 50-something months aged. And that with a good red wine, with a good Sangiovese perhaps, is phenomenal. So there is that on the table, as people have sit down. And that's quite a starter, but it's like a snack. A little chef's welcome. Yeah.

So that that will kick us off and then we would we would move into the lobster risotto that really sounded like you were lining one of us up for an impression on the US talk show he said

A lot of people have got a good walk in and I'm not one of them. Someone asked me to do it recently. I really shouted out. Yeah, the audience started shouting out. So I'm not very good at impressions. Right. So I could run anything on this podcast. They started shouting out impressions. They started Chris for walking. And I, in my head, I was like, well, everyone could do that. Yeah. Went for it. Couldn't do it. Oh, you give it a go. Why didn't you give it a go now and saying I love Parmesan and red wine? I love Parmesan and red wine.

It's not bad, is it? Not the worst thing I've ever done. You threw your body into it as well. I was trying to, I was trying to, you know, think, carry this watch, I bet that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's, yeah, that's a lovely way to, if I walked in somewhere and there was Parmesan and red wine. Yeah, crumbled up, not grated. Yeah. I mean, like chopped up into like little managed chunks. You're trying to get a good chunk. You're going to get a good taste of the cheese. 30 months aged. Yeah. Yeah, at least at least, I didn't know that was a thing here. Like you struggled to get more, whatever, 36.

Here, but it's really good. It's really good if you get it. Do you want the whole wheel on the table as you come in? So you can just sort of chip it away. And then in the middle is the card that one of them chose. It's exactly right. All this prediction in December. It's prediction in December. We're trying to give Darren another idea. So I just think we could do an off menu, Darren Brown, cut out for the next tour and everything's food based.

You crack the wheel of palms out and there's a card in the middle. Yeah. People don't. It's all the time. Yeah. Don't understand it. I've been through or something and there are things in there that they choose. It's a very good, it's a very good way of the cheese. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if you could. I'm just trying to work out how you get something into a way of cheese. I've got one method that I think it takes about four years.

worth it. It's a 50-month trick. You must have done a painting of walking. I have. Over the years, I'm a couple actually. How do you choose your subjects for your portraits? Just kind of great faces. I spent a couple of weeks very close to the big paintings as well. There's got to be someone who's

Face, I want to paint. So I've just started one of Jack Nicholson, who's got a great, a great face and just finished one of Beethoven, who's also got a really interesting with Beethoven, who doesn't really know exactly what he looks like. So he's just kind of working with the same Bernard. Other people's paint, a Saint Bernard, the dog. You think Beethoven looks like a Saint Bernard? Why did you say Saint Bernard, the American?

But that was why it wasn't the film. Yeah. Jameson knew the film. Sorry, sorry. Sorry, James. They did the process in the film. Yeah. OK. So how have you settled on what bait open actually looks like then for your one? I felt there's an artist I found who got hold of the death mask and was able to do like really accurate reconstructions. And luckily they do all look a bit like the paintings. Yeah. Otherwise.

That would have been a shame. And yeah, so I worked from that. I worked from reference shots anyway. So I love it. It's just a way of spending two weeks or whatever, just like.

locked in a creative thing. It's brilliant. It's my favourite thing. Is it therapeutic or? Yeah, it really is. It really is. It's, I don't know, do you find it hard if you've been touring or something, it just sort of finishes and then you're like, and you get really irritated and you play with everybody else. You realize you're just in this kind of thing. So having something like painting to go into doesn't involve anybody else and just go away and do it. And it's the best.

Yeah, maybe I need to do something like that, because I finish a tour and go, I can't wait. All I'm thinking about halfway through the tour is I can't wait for some time off doing nothing. And then I'm saying they're doing nothing going, oh, I feel really angry. I'd love if we started painting it. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to see your paintings. I'll paint you. OK. That's nice.

No one really knows what James looks like, though. No, I have to track down his death mask. I've got one. Yeah. I'll end it. I'll end it by death mask. Thank you, mate. This lobster risotto sounds delicious, but let's get into it proper, how you make it and like what? Oh, OK. Well, you make a beast to start with. So you roast or dry pan your lobster shells with

veg and then fish stock or water and purnow and tomato, puree, fennel, chilli. This recipe, I should say, comes from a chef called Will Parks, who is now at the rather brilliant pig hotels. He gave me this and there's a couple of other things I should probably

not say. So I don't give away all his secrets. And then you use this and fennel and chili. And then you start off, you've made a stock and then you use that stock in your risotto, which I use cognac and vermouth with. And then you reduce it, you reduce the stock to a bisque. And then you add that bisque at the end into your risotto along with your lobster meat and lemon and some chives. And that's it. And it should have the consistency of hot lava. It should tip

Like hot lava. Do you know this? This is the... You're supposed to be able to tilt the plate and a risotto should just move like lava, as opposed to a wallop of storage. I often get... I thought that was a good thing. That's always stuck with me. Move like lava.

Love is a very funny thing to compare it to. It's not something that loads of people have seen. Yes, you're right or seen move. Maybe it's not very, also very hot as well. You don't want your risotto that hot. You would have thought of Italian food. The last thing they want to think about is love. I was thinking that as well. That's right. If I had this in Naples, which is not too far from from from. Clearly. We'll see other one calls. What's the big one? Bombay. Bombay. Thank you.

The good themed risotto, they wouldn't it in Pompeii, if you go to a restaurant. No incentive analogy to use in that part of the world. We get little shapes, things under there. People go there. Model the rice into frightened shapes. Maybe that's what happened, we don't know, right, about the history. Maybe someone just made a massive risotto, and everyone got trapped under it, got out of hand. It's too hot. Get out of the way, it moves like lava.

It moves like a... They wouldn't have the word. Yeah, yeah. As we get Dante's peak when the grandma's pushing the boat in the light, she's waist high in the lava. A couple of great film references from you today. Yeah, pretty good date over on Dante's peak.

They're harking back, man. It appears Brosnan don tastes big. The grandma gets out of the boat. I guess it's not lava. It's like lava-infused water. Like, it's this lake that is absolutely... It's lava stock. Yeah, it's lava stock. It's absolutely mad hot lake that you shouldn't get in. And she's not going to get the grandkids to the end of the lake if she's in the boat. So she just gets out the boat and she pushes it.

Did she sacrifice herself? She sacrificed herself, yeah. She absolutely hates it. When she gets in the water, you can tell she's like, no, this wasn't worth it. I shouldn't have done this. They're full to herself. Should we regret it at the moment? Yeah, yeah. It'd be a much better scene if you just put a time when absolutely no way. Nope, sorry. Check one of the kids in.

I haven't seen Dante speak. Like, that doesn't even really ring a bell as a film. No, it feels like the sort of thing I have seen maybe 25 years ago. Yeah, it's a classic, you know, before the Keckman Odeon opened up and we had the classic. We had the Ohio. Yeah, I get it.

And it was like that period of film where you were going to see daylight with Sylvester Stallone, Independence Day, obviously the big one that spawned all of them. But all of those. Stargate. Stargate, absolutely. Me and my mum, as a surprise, took me to see Stargate. I went bananas for it. I loved it. I really loved Stargate. Twister. Twister. Twister. With, um, Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. He said it. Yeah. Only one of the finest role. Yeah. Yeah. And you must have drawn a, uh, PHS. You must have drawn for the same or Hoffman. Oh, yes. Yeah, I have. I have PSH. Fucking hell. Devin's made me get the alphabet. I was asking if I had twist wrong VHS.

You must have twisted the idea. You do have it. You must have drawn for those who want. I have, yeah, I have, I could do another one, actually, because that was a long time ago. And I don't think it was very good doing me in Twister. Twister one. Just twisting. Yeah. You know, like a Hawaiian shirt and it was the cap on. Yeah, it wasn't a very subtle kind of role, was it? You hadn't maybe been cast. What I've noticed is every time you suggest something to Darren, he goes, yeah, yeah, sure. I'll do that. Sure. Yeah. I'm just being polite. Yeah. He's going to do it all.

The chicken, the chicken idea was like, yeah, great, okay, great. James. I haven't suggested to someone so many things before that they should do. But I just think it's because if I can influence Darren Brown, then I'm the ultimate influencer. So I'll just keep on saying you should do this, Darren. Yeah. And if he does. Darren's just going to keep going. Yeah, sure. And then he's not going to do any of it. Yeah. Well, that's like a tip for anyone in your audience now. Are you trying to influence? They just know all I have to do is say, yeah, sure to him. And you can't, you can't control me. Yeah, sure, Darren. I'm tempted to bring out the chicken just as a little niche.

Where would that get the biggest laugh in the country if I brought out? Most audiences are going to laugh at that. They're not made of stone, that's funny. I mean, where would they know you and get the reference to this? That's most like catering. You don't get catering anywhere around Northamptonshire. And then you follow up by saying, we all remember what it was like before the odian opened. Yes.

Three main course. Three main course. Right now, I feel very strongly about this meatballs. Meatballs. So again, we're in my home. And if there's a thing I'm really dysphoric, I'm trying to make it begin with a P, but it doesn't, is in restaurants is the whole, the tasting menu thing. I really, and that's the opposite in my mind of what a, of what a,

Meals should, you know, be and I like to kind of be with friends and for it to feel social and easy and not like a, you know, like listening to a lecture course on two dots. It's the pointing places. Again, isn't it? You don't want the people pointing at the food. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's annoying. I just get to, I, I kills the vibe and you, I don't, you know, it's just like, you don't listen to the origin story of what, you know, it's just going to taste of more grass.

Um, so I do the opposite of that. So this is in my home and I've got my friends over and I've sort of, I won't name my friends because to be upset into the friends, I haven't invited. Yes. But they know, they know if they've not been invited. Oh, they never know. They never know happened. I'd be very, very careful about that. The only thing the restaurant aspect of this is providing is a round table. I've always, I love the people sitting around a round table. I don't have one. I can't really fit a round table in the kitchen homes and quite work. So we've got a rectangular one, but then you always a bit stuck out on the end. So it's a round table.

And I don't know what this is, I don't know whether I saw somewhere between, maybe it's in the godfather or maybe it's in a Woody Allen film and there's just some people and they're in a restaurant and they're making these meatballs and tomato sauce and spaghetti. It's that Italian American thing and they're just like, it's the passing around the table and the chat and everyone's talking over each other and I don't know if that only happens on TV and in films, but

That's the thing for me, like it's comfort food and it's that social experience and everything that's the opposite of a fucking tasting menu. So we're having that and I learned to cook a bit out in Italy once in Florence and then again in Ravelo and the Amalfi Coast. There's a great woman there called Mama Agata who teaches Italian cooking, which I love more than anything.

and I first made meatballs there, and then I sort of, which is a kind of Neapolitan way of doing them, which is a bit different. And now how I do them is with, again, sort of a bit of fennel and a bit of Chilean garlic, there's a bit of a running theme, bring everything together, and your milky bread, do you know this? You ever made meatballs? No. So you soak stale bread in milk, and then you just can't take the crust off. You mix that up with beef and pork, mince,

herbs and bit of garlic, no onions, egg to bind and parmesan, I think, up parsley, I guess. And you mix all that up and you need to deep fry those. You make them into little meatballs and you roll them in flour, then really you want to deep fry them. And then meanwhile you're making your tomato sauce with your tomatoes and olive oil. And I'd go maybe like capers and anchovies, a bit of olives and stuff in there.

In fact, actually, I think, to be more accurate with this, it's the perfect meatballs that I don't ever think exist. There's always something disappointing when you order it. Sometimes you do fancy meatballs, you walk them and never that nice or a bit bland, or it's just not quite, but it's the idea of the perfect meatballs in the tomato sauce. Maybe not spaghetti, but like the thicker spaghetti, it's like bookotini or spagatoni, or what's it called? Pichy that you can make with, it's just semolina and water, then you roll them out by hand.

But then you don't get the starchy water that you get from the sort of dried spaghetti, which I think you need in the sauce. But so good spaghetti. And really, just there's something that's always missing. I don't know what it is, but it's there's a perfect meatball out there. And this is the dream restaurant. It would be absolutely would be the perfect meat. There's nothing missing for me. I've thought about these perfect people so much since first listening to your podcast. Size is a difficult thing with meatballs, I think. It is. Rarely the perfect size. Yeah, golf balls are too big.

I think, actually, they kind of plopeted the actual betta. I think they really like a cherry size. And normally it happened just on their own without any tomato sauce. That's very much an American thing. But I think it's one of the few things maybe the Americans really got right when it came to bastardizing Italian food. And that's the whole spaghetti tomato thing. So, yes, that. But I would go a little bigger than a cherry. Slightly bigger than a cherry. Yeah. Big cherry size. Big cherry strawberry.

Yeah, strawberries are slightly bigger than cherries. They're not the shape of a strawberry. No, that would be mad. No, it's just an idiot. But yeah, nice round, strawberry sized round. I don't think you mean about chasing the perfect one though, because I think as English people, meatballs, spaghetti meatballs specifically, are one of the things that we see drawn before we eat.

Like, before I'd ever had to be at your meatballs, I'd seen it drawn in cartoons and it looked delicious. You say that little cartoon circle just next to your head on the wall behind you. That does look a bad idea.

They do that stuff. They look like spaghetti and meatballs like that. Darren, stop. I think you see it in those cartoons. Looked delicious in the bino or whatever or like lading the tramport. It's kind of cartoon. So then we're singing songs about them as well. We're singing songs about my meatball, rolled away at all that, all covered in cheese, because somebody sneezed.

I thought you meant the rude song you sing at school. Here we go. I don't know this spaghetti and meatballs and a banana. Do you not remember that? No, I've never heard that before.

It's a rude version of Lebamba, spaghetti and meatballs and a banana. And the meatballs are the balls. Yes, we know. The spaghetti is the pubes. What's the banana? I believe leaving the headline until last. It's the winner. It's the winner.

I thought that's what you meant. But my point is, let's be getting meatballs to a big part of your life as a kid before you've even tried it. I think so. Before you've even eaten spit. So you've got this thing in your head. So it might be impossible because a lot of the time with food and drink, we're chasing the first time we had them, or whatever, or the best time we had them. With this, we're chasing what it conjured up in us when we saw these drawings.

tell the law of Godfather or whatever it was. There's a whole thing that comes with it, which is why you need a dream restaurant to make it happen. I don't even quite know what it would be that would make them the perfect meatball. I suppose they would have a bit of a crunch to the outside maybe, and then maybe the sauce would just be really rich and not just like an apologetic tin of tomato, you know, like they'd actually have a real something to it.

I think it is about the atmosphere as well, right? And you described it a bit passing it over, or someone's dishing it up, and it's just not fussing, is it? It's just like warming and homely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My partner has a habit of serving, by the time I've sat down, he's served everything out and put it on plates, which to me is, I'd never say anything directly. I might have said the podcast thing, but you might listen to it in the car. But it's like he kills that part of the process, which I think is important.

And also, when you say it in films and stuff, the source has always sat atop the spaghetti, which I think is kind of wrong because you want to mix the spaghetti in with the sauce. For that starchy goodness to figure the sauce in the rest of it. So that's, but I guess it just doesn't look as good if you're designing or directing that film. You want to be a bit messy as well, don't you? You want it to? Yeah, you want to get involved. Are you tucking a napkin into the collar? Oh.

I should totally do that. You should do that. If you're having spaghetti or meatballs. If you're a kitchen roll in our house, but yeah, it might, you know, it might like bend up a bit. Yeah. Yeah. But expensive kitchen roll, like, you know, the stuff that really absorbs. Yeah, bounty. I was thinking Regina Blitz, but I don't want to.

a giant oblique. Yeah, that's the thing. It's not a drag queen. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. That's what even reminded me as well. I've forgotten about this until you started talking about it, but like I used to work in the school as classroom assistant. And there was like an annex center where the kids who couldn't be in the main school would go to school and there's only about three of them in it. And that would all be like one on one with different classroom assistants. There was a kid from my class was sent there. So we'd take it in turns to go there like once or twice a week and me and him were given the job one day of cooking for everyone.

And I learned how to make meatloaf from Jamie Oliver's cookbook. Right. And he suggested that we made that into spaghetti and meatballs and have it with spaghetti and do that. We did that for everyone. And it was a really nice communal thing. And that was a very nice family that I've forgotten about until now.

I was really, really fussy when I was a kid. I'd belly ate anything. I was so proper fussy to eat it. When I was at uni, I was in the back of a car, starving. The people I was with went out and got a pizza and called from the shop. Do you want sausage on it? And I said, yes, thinking that meant sausage.

Because it meant salami in salami was an absolute no-no, but when it came, it was all mixed into the cheese and everything. So I couldn't pull the salami out. So I kind of thought, all right, I'll just have to trick myself that I like salami. So I did this thing as I was eating it, not out loud, but in my head, I was going,

and doing that and not giving myself a moment to go, hang on, where's the slimy taste I don't like, where is it, where is it, there it is, I don't like it. And it worked, and I ate it, it was lovely. And then I started doing it with everything. And I just wiped out all these things I didn't like by just doing this, by going, in my head. The only thing you left was mushrooms and blue cheese, which I can't stand, but. You don't brown yourself. I don't brown myself, are you? Are you aware that that's a saying? You know it's a verb, you know your name's a verb, right?

I use it without even realizing the irony. I just don't brown that. Me and James watched someone try and Darren Brown, someone else out of hating a food, do you remember? Oh my God, it was the best.

Yeah, I do remember. What happened? It was when we were doing Celebrity Hunted. Right. And it was before we started filming, we were all just hanging out. In Shrewsbury Prison was where we started. We had like two days in Shrewsbury Prison for them to just shoot like five seconds of us escaping from the prison, but it was such a great two days.

So we were with the Speakmans. I don't know if you know the Speakmans. No. They're like therapists, but they do a lot of work with people around that sort of stuff. And they're on this morning quite a lot. There's a very funny video of them speaking to woman who throws up every time she thinks about custard. Right. But we were also with Bobby Segal, who was on a university challenge. Yes. And he didn't like Marmite. So they went right, Bobby.

Oh sorry, for context as well. Bobby Seagull is the most positive person you've ever met. He's actively trying to be positive about everything. Right. And would never in a million years, if someone was doing any sort of like mentalism on him or hypnosis, ever admit if it wasn't working. Okay. He's a people pleaser. Yeah. Okay. So it was perfect. We watched him go through all of these exercises they set up with Marmite of him getting late.

Now imagine I've got my Marmite here, Bobby. What are you going to do? Move closer to the Marmite, closer to the Marmite, and then he was imagining eating the Marmite. Is that, and what do you feel about Marmite now, Bobby? And he went, yeah, I like it, actually. You could tap total bullshit. A bit of the enthusiasm. He asked me his face, going like, it's good, isn't it, Bobby? It's like it, Bobby.

And did they then get in to try it for real? The next morning at breakfast, they got him to try some Marmite. He was like, that's nice, yeah. And they walked away from the table. You could just see him like absolutely gutted that he did in Marmite. He was eating it on its own, like, he had a pot and he was putting his finger in and just into his mouth. So much Marmite, even people you love Marmite wouldn't do that.

I love Marmite, but even like a tiny bit of it on its own, I have a real, like it really makes me wretch. You want to hang out with the Speakmans? I think what they did with him, and maybe you can vouch if this would work. So they basically said, think of a food you love. Yes. And we're putting that over here. So they like gestured it's over in this part of the room. And as we move this part of Marmite closer to that, how do you feel about it? Yeah. And then eat the Marmite.

that was what I remember it being. That's an L.P. stuff going on. I remember I cured someone of a cat allergy like that, and so using a sort of similar thing, just really curious to see if it would work. And I say cured, but it definitely worked

there and then, like, because when he was talking about cats before, he was even just talking about the thing about them, it was making him sneeze and everything. And then he didn't afterwards. So there's that, okay, you've created light, but that's not a real cat yet. It's just how you feel differently. And then apparently he was better with the cats, but I think it didn't really last like, you know, after a few weeks, a couple of months, whatever he was back to where he was. So really, yeah, hard to say, but it does have, it kind of some effect.

We felt Bobby Seagull was just being polite. I think it was just being polite. Yeah. Yeah. I think when you go back to be making those noises, so maybe it did help a little bit him doing that. I find Marmite and Mint sources, the other thing that I love, but I can't have it on its own.

Just a thing. Yeah, yeah. It's just something. It's rare. It's rare that you're in a situation where you might end up having a marwha or mint sauce by itself, right? But you're going to do it once if you like both of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was a salad in the pub that I used to work in, this chain pub that was just basically, I mean, I can't remember any of the other ingredients, but there weren't many other ingredients. Basically, he just mint sauce and red onions. I got hooked on it one day. I couldn't stop eating it. Just this side.

With that to explain your breath. Yeah. For the list of our steak. Your dream side dish.

It's not terribly interesting, but I just thought like a nice, like a rocket salad, because with the meatballs, you know, I'm sure they're a better side dishes in the world. But if you're having this rocket salad with some of that parmesan and perhaps a nice balsamic, nice olive oil, that would be very nice. This is a very coherent menu. It's very evidence. It's a little too carby. I suppose risotto followed by pasta.

Yeah, but people, like I would do that at an Italian restaurant. You're like, you're there to enjoy it and you want to get stuck in. Yeah. I suppose they'd appear at the risotto and the pass would probably appear on the same preemie-platty course, wouldn't they? Yeah, but you're the customer, right? Exactly. So this is a very nice, simple salad. Mm. Yeah, nice, simple salad. Yeah, I think you, it could be a bottle of rice, mashed potato, I guess. That's what comes in. But no, it's just, yeah, nice little,

wild rocket, quite nice. Yeah. Grew my own rocket for a little while. It was delicious. Yeah. And then never returned to that idea again. Were you making salads pretty regular? Did you overdo it? I had a lot of rocket to use. Yeah. And getting good Parmesan. I'd probably just end up eating the Parmesan on its own. It's nothing like that. That and a good bottle of red.

It's in the first episode of Chef's Table, that series, and I've forgotten the name of the chef, and Massimo, but he tells the story of when they saved all the... Yeah, all of the rounds. It was the broken, by promoting the idea of cooking with broken parmesan, wasn't it?

Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And they do the tap it, how, what it should sound like when you tap on it. And that's stuck with me a lot. Like that kind of like the sound of that sounds delicious. Yeah. On a wheel or does it doesn't work with a wedge? No. Yeah. That's like a, you can't go around the supermarket. Like just tapping on all the wedges. Yeah. I've done the other car. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, tap it on the wheel. And what is the sound? Is it like a dead heavy sound? Or is it like a... It's like a... Yeah, it is dead, I guess. But then there's like a bit of a... It's hollow, right? Hollow-y sound to it as well. So like, yeah, you get that kind of like... It's like a dampened drum or something. And when you hear something... When you hear something not back, you know, it's ready. Not back, yeah. It's a little knock from the inside. I'm ready. It's the cheese knocking back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the cheese knocking back.

Four years this is taken. That would be gutting. What's the longest you've spent on a trick for it not to work?

That's a good question. I think that's a good question, right? I remember being on stage on Broadway and I'd messed up a trick at the beginning and it was like it was quite a long trick. I was in like 15, 20 minutes. It was quite a long time to spend on one thing on stage with four climaxes that were going to happen. I just knew none of them were going to work and that felt like the longest time I'd spent on a trick for it not to work. And I made the same mistake the night after and the same mistake.

At the end of it, I learned that people didn't mind. It's a weird thing, like, you mess something up. It's sort of OK. Do people almost want to see you mess at least one thing up? Yeah, I think I have to. And if a show's gone too smoothly, I will mess something up on purpose. Otherwise, it's like a juggler dropping a ball. I guess you have to. I remember I did a show once and I couldn't get the... Me or the person on stage couldn't get the lid off the marker.

And then I could in backstage running around trying to get another one. Those weren't the other markers. And it was in there, it got reviewed that night. And it was like this really lovely human moment. I guess they thought I'd do it sometimes on purpose because actually now, you know, people aren't looking at what you're doing or thinking about other stuff. They're watching somebody struggle to get a marker.

Lid off a marker. Yeah, failure is an important thing. Thank God. And people need something to compare it to, right? Yeah, sure. They need to do really good stuff. Seems really good if they can see what happens when it goes wrong. So the matter of time you must spend, there was one where you get Darren's not going to remember this at all. Oh, I don't remember this.

There's one where you have to bet on the horses, and you said that you'd done it. So for people who haven't seen it, it's like a series of every time you tell them to bet on a horse that wins, and then they win massive at the end. You slightly killed the surprise to anybody watching it, but yes.

Yeah, spoiler alert. Yeah. What do you want me to say? They'd expect that sports it even more. But like, yeah, how it worked. Yeah. So the way you've done it is you've done it with a series of people and it's really, it's not like it's just that if you do it enough times, it will eventually happen like that. And then that person will think that this amazing trick has been done with it or something.

Yeah. Yeah. How long are you spending on that with all the dough? Yeah. Yeah. So that took a very long time. So yeah, it all started with the idea that, you know, if you'd get every week, you'd get a thing in your email saying this horse is going to win like in two days time and then you, perhaps the first time you like, really? And then you don't even think about it. And then you realize it has. And then you get it.

Now, the result the next week and maybe this time you watch the race and it does win and does it again, it does win. And then when it gets to the fourth one or the fifth one, it's like, would you want to buy the system? It's expensive, but you'll be able to do this whenever you like. And yeah, you just start with enough people and the one in six that happened to get the winning horse, the winning prediction, because you obviously divided that big group into six and given each group a different prediction. So you take that group of six, which if you start with enough, people are still a big group of people.

And then you split them into six for the next race, and then into six for the next race. And so there'll be one person by the end of it, which we had, who had just got a series of like, impossibly, you know, impossible predictions. And, um, and sure enough, she was willing to put her life savings up to buy this system. And then we told her after she'd given us the money. Well, it's how it all works. So let's, let's see. Oh, no, there was a twist at the end. I won't say just in case there's anything that still wants to watch it. People have to watch it.

Your dream drink, Devon Brown. Dream, well, I'm going for a bottle of, well, it all starts with the Parmesan, I suppose, so a nice Sangiovese, maybe a Brunelot de Moltochino, which is probably my favourite red. I'm not drinking a lot with it, but just like, yeah, probably just like a glass and a half. Very specific. Well, yeah. Are you, why the half glass there? I like to take exactly the same amount as milk goes into a Cadbury's flake.

That's, and then I stop. It's a very good system now. Not enough people stick to that. It's an example of martini afterwards, and I just can't do a martini if I've had more than like maybe a glass and a half. Yeah, that's why I start with a martini, and then I think that I can carry on. Do you start? Okay, I'll start with martini. Yeah, I think it's a nice digestive afterwards. It opens you up a little bit.

I think if I got to the end of the night, I'd be like, no, I'm there's no work and I'm not eating now. I'm going to absolutely lose my mind. I quite like a Tommy's Margarita to start things off. Oh, yeah. Tommy's Margarita. So Tommy's Margarita is there's no triple circle other alcohol in it. It is just tequila, a good 100% agave tequila, not the horrible stuff and lime and agave. And I was friendly with, remember Kenny Everett?

Yes, a clear rocker, who was Kenny Everett's side, red-headed bombshell. So she's a good friend, and she has a tequila brand for her own, called Aquareva. And that got me this before tequila became a huge thing. She was very much at the forefront of this kind of big tequila revival. And she was obviously very passionate about the drink.

and got me quite passionate about it too. It is a magic drink. There's no hangover if you don't, as I'm sure you know, if you don't, as long as you stay hydrated and you don't mix it with any other drinks. So the nice thing about a Tommy's margaritas, because there's no other alcohol in it, you really can just drink a drink all night and you will feel fine. If slightly held, like I'm holding my

my head in my own hands now there's a slight I've done this I have drunk them all day once and the next morning everything's fine but it's maybe it's a bit like everything's been taken away in replace with identical but you don't there's no bad feelings yeah

I think I prefer a traditional hangover to feeling like all of my stuff is replaced with identical versions of themselves. You've not got the Tommy's Margarita on your menu yet. Do you want that as you come into the meal before the meal? It could be a welcoming drink. A welcome deal with a welcome deal. And then you're moving on to the red wine. Moving on to the, onto the parmesan, the red wine. So this is very Italian menu. If you spent a lot of time in Italy, do you remember the first time you had these Italian wines that you thought, this is my jam.

I don't know. I don't know a huge amount about wine, but as with anything like that, it's like if you can have one little area or one little part of it, and then if it makes it feel a bit more manageable, I remember having Brunello on the holiday in Daskany somewhere and loving it going, that's it. That's, that's what I like. That's my one. That's it. Yeah. And then there's a, then you from that, I guess you sort of build out and go, I quite like that too. I can't remember the difference. I don't know which one I'm drinking.

But that's definitely my whiny home. And then yeah, I cook Italian food all the time and love pasta. I would have pasta all the time. And I can. You literally can. You don't run. Exactly.

We arrive at your dream dessert. Very exciting. You're ready. Yeah, has he gone quickly? That's gone quickly, yeah. You have no idea how many ever tricks and specials of yours I've held back on asking about, so I've done quite well. Yeah, I really appreciate it. I didn't even worry about people that you've done stuff on. You ever go, I hope that guy's all right, or I got to push the guy off the building. Well, there's so few of them that it's easy to keep in touch and maintain a friendship with them. So that's what's happened. So like in the last one,

Just a few years ago now, on Netflix and Channel 4 called Sacrifice. I remember the guy... Oh yeah. This was the guy getting... laying down his life for an illegal Mexican immigrant, but he himself was very much anti-all of that immigration stuff, so as to whether he could be changed. And he...

Yeah, so he came over. I flew him over to watch the show and watch it because it's all very weird when it's not just, like the experience of going through it. And we knew that would be fine for him. And there's a, you know, there's obviously take care of people, but then there's actually seeing your experience then rendered as a TV show with, you know, music and close ups and bits edited out that might have meant a lot to you, but just don't make the final cut and so on. So he came over and watched it. And then we watched it again with Martin Freeman, because he was a big fan of Martin. I wanted to remind.

I wanted to come up twice because I wanted him to, because he was a big fan of Martin Freeman and Martin's a friend, and I wanted him to feel, you know, sort of proud of it and enjoy it. And then we watched it again with the other guys that had done the other shows like that that I've done that all been through these similar units. So he could feel like part of a very niche group army.

I think it was an army. I would like to see that as a special action. All those guys living in a house together. They've been through different things. One of them thought zombies were real. He's walking over. Waiting for the signal to attack. Just all of them in a house constantly paranoid that it's another thing else is happening, but it's just... I do occasionally know some people that think they are part of a show.

And in the middle of, there was what we did called a remote control. It was like a big game show thing. And the audience were in masks. And it's there making decisions about whether good or bad things happen to somebody who's out being secretly filmed. And there was a runner on that show who was in one of the sort of secret filming units over the road from the pub where this guy isn't all this stuff's happening to him.

And Ron is a very important character in a crew, keeping everything ticking over. And he just totally freaked out the whole thing was about him. And he literally ran down the street screaming. He totally lost his shit and ran down the street in the middle of a live thing screaming.

I get the impulse. I completely understand. Even more embarrassing when someone has to go, it's not. It's not. You might be a narcissist. Yeah, your title main character is literally main character syndrome. It's hard, isn't it? The other one that comes to mind is on apocalypse that you mentioned during the nighttime sequences. Obviously, I have to go and sleep.

but we felt like somebody should if steven our guy in it at all like freaked out in the middle of the night like if it was me watching i would i would get in there hypnotize him and make sure everything was fine and even that meant you know the whole show to go down the toilet wouldn't matter but i basically there's always that thing i can run into sort of now if i need to if it all goes horribly wrong.

But I needed sleep, but I saw I would sleep when he was asleep. But we had a backup hypnotist just in case he was doing a light shift and was just watching Stephen sleep just in case anything like that happened. And I won't mention his name. I normally do. I won't this. I'm going to embarrass him. But he needed to go to the loo. So somebody said, do you mind if I need power to the loo? And of course, it's fine. Nothing's happening.

So, yeah, that's actually just, well, the nearest one is actually within the sort of film area. So, you know, be quiet, it's within this sort of like bunker that Stephen's, you know, but it was like, there was a porter loose somewhere, so, yeah, just, I should just use that. So, off he goes to use the loo, and then there was something, they were going to do a very quiet rehearsal of a zombie crowd scene that was going to happen the next morning.

So back up hypnotist, this is the toilet. Then there's like, OK, do you mind? Sorry, just stay in there for a bit because we just got to rehearse. Don't come out. Then there's like a load of silent zombies pretending to shake the thing, the fences, and they kind of run through there a bit. And no one tells back up hypnotist in the toilet that he can come out at the end of it. So he just, he knows he's there to do a job. So he just sort of sleeps, I think, in the portal. It was certainly there for a very, very long time.

So there are entire sequences of that show where there's a map that's trapped in the portal. You can see it's outlined if you look carefully. It's led against the walls. That way you should just film that and made that a different show. So, yeah, your dream dessert, Devon. OK, well, I tell you at home what it is. And what I was going to say for reasons of honesty and transparency is a single shrapnel, a walker, salted caramel truffle. So I love it.

Because normally I'm full, right? I make these carby things. I can't have a kind of a pudding on top of that. So they're on the mantelpiece in the front room. I get the big pots, because again, the big ones. And they're all in the little, you know, little frilly things. And I take it and I normally try to do it. It was not around and I sit down and I'm very mindful and lovely and very mindful about enjoying this one chocolate. However, given it's a dream restaurant, I figured

Something could happen whereby you lose some of the fullness and general gastric discomfort at this point, and you don't have a bit of space for a nice pudding, otherwise it's a bit pointless. So I'm going to go Apple crumble. Must be a popular choice.

Yeah, pretty popular. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not normally after risotto and spaghetti. No, I mean, this is it. It's not practical. No, but we're employing the genie's powers here. Yeah. You know, you're not, you're not feeling full. You're ready for apple crumble. Exactly. Yeah. Hearty. Might even put a little shobbler walk on top. Yeah. We'll give you the shobbler. You're having that afterwards because you described it so lovely, so nicely. Yeah. No, you absolutely absolutely right. No, I think you've got to have it on its own afterwards, but the crumble is

Yeah, apple crumble, and sometimes blackberries in there too. Oats, I sort of, I do oats. My mum's always like, have you put oats in there? Good, okay. She's not sure about the oats. Her way of doing it. Yeah. And oats, I think are a little out there. It's a bit new school. Yeah, a bit new school. But I quite like them. I think I quite like the oats. So yeah, nothing particularly imaginative with the apple crumble, but it's just

It's just all comfort food for me, risotto is a big comfort food as well, isn't it? It's all red wine. Actually, it's a comfort food. It's all about that. And again, you bring it out and maybe with ice cream, but probably with custard. Hot or cold custard?

Oh, no, hot custard, don't, yeah, don't do that. Do people have cold custard? We both like on a hot dessert. Cold custard, we both like it. Yeah, but it's the same. You might have ice cream. That's basically just very cold custard, doesn't it? It is, but I'd rather go custard over ice cream. I do like, I do like, I do love an ice cream.

My other option would have been vanilla ice cream with Swiss roll, chocolate Swiss roll for your kid. You do that. So a bit like essentially a deconstructed Arctic roll, which we all had, I'm sure. Joe, what we can tell you, yeah, because you have chose the apple crumble. Every episode, there's a secret ingredient. It's a guest chooses it. Sort of mini roles for you. Yeah. Well, we chose that because of a trick you did with many roles. I was doing my best.

I think that was dangerously close to it. You're allowed to mention it, it's fine. You haven't chosen it so we're fine. But if you chose it, as you're doing it. Close but no, chocolate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the Swiss roll is not...

A mini-roll is not the same as a Swiss roll. Well, we would have to have that debate if a mini-roll is the same as a Swiss roll. What happens if somebody says it? Do you just cut it dead? Get out. That's it. You're not getting any of your food that you ordered. You're not getting any of it in the dream. It's only happened once. It's only happened once. And then we read them the menu out, tell them it's all going in the bin. And you'd be surprised at how badly it gets received by the person.

Even though it's a completely imaginary menu, there's livid that they don't get it. That's absolutely disappointed by it. For you, it was many roles because of the League of Gentlemen thing you did. Yes. I will say that. Yeah. That many roles thing is the only thing that I'm going to just straight up ask you how you did it. I know you're not going to tell this.

I don't know. It's a waste of time. I know that you have to listen to everyone get asked this all the time, but it's been bothering me ever since I saw it with probably over a decade ago. I would like you to just tell us how you did it, please. One more TV.

to do anything. But it's a razor blade on a razor blade. It's a role in the chocolate roll. I'd say there's a whole bunch of other things beforehand of like they sit down on chairs, you mix man floats up and they open the envelope, it says what color chair they're going to sit on and they reach under their chair and they've all got the color that corresponds to that. There's a whole bunch of different things that have to open in the table. It's the ones that are steeped.

Yeah. I mean, that is, I think, I think about it a lot. I think I don't know. I genuinely, I genuinely cannot remember. I do occasionally watch those things back. I have no idea. Yeah. Absolutely. No, I didn't. If you watched it back ago, that was good. I saw it. Well, not quite that as sadly as that sounds, but occasionally I'll just watch it because someone will be talking about it. Oh, I haven't seen that very, I'll pop that on. Fine. Or just so it'll come up on my, you know, computer or something. I'll just find myself watching it. I've got clue.

But that's how you know it's a good trick, right? You've even tricked yourself in the future. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's an idea. Uh-huh. Trick yourself in the future. Yeah. Are you going to add any words on that? Yeah, let's get the balls on it.

You trick yourself in the future, do a load of things, record them, then you sit down and you're the person that's happened to, by then you've forgotten about it. I do it that you just trick yourself, you like fucking hell. So the audience are watching me do tricks on myself, like I have no idea. Watching you react to the video, of course they will all think you just pretend to be tricked. But you will know, can they see what's on the video? Are they just watching my reactions?

I can see what's on the video, I can see what's on the video. Is this how you normally write shows? Someone comes in and says, just the completely random idea and then goes, just getting the ball rolling. I do not even does it. Just getting the ball rolling. Just trick yourself with the future. Please that. So we're thinking that people do say things and then you have to stop because sometimes it does lead to half a thought or you've had a similar thought.

And then they're like, well, I gave you that idea. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, you didn't. That was already a chicken. That was something else. But yes, the idea of rotation is something that we... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does, yeah. That's happened quite a lot. The chickens are headlining that idea, I think. If you change some chicken, I think it's no longer just... It's tedious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. And to be honest, if the chicken's not rotating, I'm not gonna think it's me.

If you just got chickens knocking about, I'm not going to go that with me. It's only if it's a rotisserie chicken being used to put someone into a trance. And then they're on the rotisserie at the end. But then even then, I'm not going to get annoyed. I didn't get credit. I'll just know in my heart. Yeah, there's an inner satisfaction, isn't there? That's enough. I'll be really happy with that. It's about time my hypnotist is using the idea of a chicken, right? It is about time. We've never seen that before.

It's the opposite. Would you draw like a spy or she or they draw like a spiral on the where the head's been removed? Because that could be the central spiral. And then the spiral sort of works its way out. Yeah. On that plane, that sort of front end of the chicken. Yeah. So if you're sat in front and your view isn't obscured by the drumsticks. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. It'd be more powerful than that. And also like if the, if the audience can't see that spiral, yeah, it adds to it, right? Because they're just getting tied by the chicken. Yeah. But actually there's a spiral on the net.

And I don't know, but I guess a biro would work, would write very satisfyingly on the front of it. Yeah, yeah. I think doing that spiral would feel good tonight on the neck of a chicken with a biro. You wouldn't, sorry, just to say, you wouldn't need to draw a circle. You could hold the biro still and let the rotisserie smid do the work. It's going to be a weird show, your next show. I don't think that's weird at all.

Let someone hold a baro on a chicken neck and then it rotates and you draw. They've got to slowly move the pen to the side, slow to the left. All right, I'm in. Yes. We follow. We've definitely finished with an extra dry, painfully, brutally dry vodka martini. I'd probably go

Maybe conic's tail with a twist. With a twist. Yeah, we're not just dirty. Twist is chocolate travel fighting. If anyone's seen Darren Brown, he always ends with a twist. I was too excited to say that, but I think that was very good to say that even Darren Brown's menu ends with a twist. And then if you just said that, great. I read your menu back to you now, so you feel about it. It has to be mindful. OK, go. Tommy's margarita when you arrive. Yes, nice. You would like still water, not too cold, nothing in it, no plops.

problems of bed you would like sourdough warm with butter and salt, then some parmesan and red wine on the table. The starter you would like a lobster risotto main course perfect meatballs in tomorrow's sauce with a thick spaghetti, side dish of rocket salad with parmesan balsamic olive oil drink you would like a glass and a half.

of Brunella de Mon de Chinoes. Dessert, she would like an apple crumble, hot with hot custard, and then Chabernet, Walker, sold to Caramel Truffle. I'm excited to say that. I had an extra dry vodka martini. Did you say the crumble? Yes, you're still thinking about it. No, I hypnotized you, and you forgot that I said the crumble.

It worked. That's amazing. Hearing you say it back? Yeah. As beautiful as you did. Yeah, that's gorgeous. That's a great menu. You've heard that, please. Now, confirm to the listener that envelope hasn't left you. This has been in front of me all the time. It just contains my menu choices. There's no extra. You've had it there and you've signed it over the thing. If you could open it and just read to the listener what it says inside. In here, the envelope has a prediction on the front of it.

I've removed a sheet of paper. Yes. Here we go. I'm removing it. It says Darren's menu. Here we go. Water. Olive oil. That was up. We got that one wrong. That's wrong. Oh, I see. I always get one wrong. You always get one wrong at the top. I did have a moment there of thinking, oh my God, this is actually going to be a thing. Well, you always get the first one wrong. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're dropping a ball. All right. Pop-a-doms or bread. You put egg McMuffin in a cigarette.

Always get the second one wrong. Always get the second one wrong. Starter clams, main, candy floss, flumbade. Well, okay, not far off. You're not far off. Side, spaghetti, hoops, boiling hot. Nearly. Like lava. Nearly. I had it like lava. Spaghetti hoops is close. Drink an ice cold beer.

We ran out of room. We ran out of room. We ran out of room. We ran out of room. We ran out of room. We ran out of room. We ran out of room. We had to just leave it dessert. We ran out of space. I'm framing this. Yeah.

We've got spaghetti. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, in a sense, they're all correct. You've got spaghetti hoops and spaghetti hoops are cycles like meatballs. Yeah. Yeah. A nice... You can get them when meatballs end as well. Yeah. In a sense, candy floss, comfort food. Yeah. Clams. Well, I mean, clams are by the sea, pumpades by the sea. Yeah. They probably were feasting on clams when it was struck. When it was struck, yeah. We talked about all of this.

All of all was in the salad. Yeah, egg muffin. I had a cigarette. Most of my favourite that you peaked early there. Yeah, that one is wrong in all of all. It was correct, that's what I said. Yeah, yeah. Pretty good. Phenomenal. Pretty good, but you just got Devon Brown. Thank you so much for coming to the dream restaurant there and being a dream. Thank you.

James, you embarrassed me in that interview. What? You'd look like a little nerd. I've never seen you nerd out so hard. I just know stuff. I'd like knowledge. Yes, you were very excited to meet Darren. So was I. Lovely to chat to Darren. What a nice man. What a great man.

Yes, I know. So many episodes and questions have got. I'm well aware. I saw it. I looked around at you during that interview and you were pinching your leg at some point. Yes, just to get myself a shut up. To stop yourself saying all the different shows he's done. Don't ask him about all the shows. James, come on down. Yeah, at off. You've got to privatize.

It was lovely to speak to Darren, I enjoyed his venue very much, and he didn't say many roles, although we were skirting a little bit close to it, weren't we? Yes, he'd already established that Swiss role was his backup dessert, but he wasn't going to choose it, so I thought we can let him know.

Because if he did say Swiss roll, we would have had to have debated that. Yeah. And I guess, ultimately, many roles, the clue is in that it's a mini role. It's a mini role. And it's chocolate and Swiss rolls are not traditionally. It is specific. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got to get off his back on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, we predicted his entire meal. It's pretty impressive that we predicted his entire meal. We, Darren Brown, Darren Brown.

There was a moment when he opened it, where I thought... He might have done something to the envelope. He might have done something for us. Is he about to do something for us? Was he going to hold the envelope and tell us what we've written down before opening it? Yeah. Or he might reveal, if you listened back to the podcast during every course, I actually said these things. Yes. If you listened back. I got it in there, you didn't notice. That would have blown my mind. That's how good he is. We're amazed by stuff he didn't do.

Well done, Darren. Tickets for Darren's new show, Only Human are on sale now, so get yourself along to that. I know we'll be going at some point. Yeah, absolutely. All of us, for sure. I want to see that spending chicken. In his show, Only Human. Yes.

It's still time to change it, call it Only Chicken. That was, of course, the final episode of the series, but we'll be back before you know it for Christmas specials, best ofs, all of that sort of stuff. Other than that, we'll see you in the new year. Yes. No need to text me and ask me when those are though, Mum. So that's the end of the series now. That's been established. You don't have to text me saying that you're annoyed about that. And then you don't have to just be like, where are these Christmas specials and where's the compilation? Christmas. They're all coming out.

We're giving you content, Mum. He sounds very ungrateful to me, Dye. I'm so sorry you have such a wretch of a son. Thank you so much to Darren for coming on the podcast. We will see you again soon. Bye-bye. Goodbye.

Hello, my name's Sarah Pasco. Guess what? I've been on our menu a while back. Can't remember what I said vegan butter, I think. Anyway, I'm not going on tour with a new show. It's called I Am A Strange Gloop. The tour starts in June 2025. Come and join me. I might talk about food if that's what you need. Bread or popper doms. I'll shout stealing content of off menu. I will probably talk about other things as well. And I might not shout bread or popper doms. Tickets are on sale now at serapasko.co.uk.