England bid farewell to Carsley … we hardly knew Lee: Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly Champions of Nations League B Group 2. You'll never sing that apart from the nations who've won it before, of course. A great second half where four people had that moment that a lot of us dreamed about doing as kids scoring your first goal for England. Taylor Harwood Bellis looked the happiest but lovely moments for Anthony Gordon. Connor Gallagher and Jarrab Bowen 2. Ireland wanted two penalties. They probably should have had one when it was Neil Nill. But there are interesting questions now as Lee Carlsley writes his hand over note for Thomas Tuckel. What to do with Harry Kane? Who to play with Jude Bellingham?

How on earth to work out who to pick when everyone's available? Elsewhere, Scotland win finally, get Croatia down to 10 men and they eventually get a little tired. Wales just about scraped a draw in Turkey on a weekend. Well, I learnt that Carl Dalo was Welsh. Rabio is Rabio gets a brace as France win in Italy and then we'll do some EFL and discuss the new commentary manager, which might bring us full circle back to lead cars. All that plus your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

on the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello. Hi, Max. Jacob Steinberg, welcome. Hello. And George Ellick from not the top 20. How are you, George? Good. Thanks, Max. How are you? I'm very well. Thanks for asking. Let's start at Wembley, then England 5, Ireland, nil, which means England win the group level on points with Greece, but a better head to head after Greece beat Finland to nil. Jacob, you were there. Did you have a nice time? We had a nice time in the second half. The first half was

the classic England stodgy ferret felt a bit like we were back in.

Euro, the Euros last summer or that Scotland game at Euro 2020, the nil nil with England just playing too slowly, just lack of intensity, too safe and kind of eventually in the, towards the end of the first half, sort of dragged into the kind of game that Ireland wanted in Ireland was so defensive, just 10 men behind the ball basically. Nathan Collins playing in front of a very deep back four and just kind of blocking the space for Harry Kane and Jude Bellingham.

and at half time it felt like it might end up being a goalist draw. We were all kind of saying this feels like this is where it's heading and it's just that one moment from Harry Kane that just kind of

completely changes the game. Just at a point where people were, I think he just lost the ball again before he turns and plays that pass and people were starting to think, was Cassidy Wright last Thursday? Does Kane need to be taken off? Is this what's going to change the game for England? Instead, he just reminds you of the

quality that he's still got despite the questions over whether he's still got the same physicality, the same pace that he had a few years ago, and it's probably going to remain a question. But in the end, red card changes everything, and after that, he's always going to run away with it. It becomes a completely different kind of evening. But during the first half, it was pretty poor.

It's so interesting is it because that Harry came past Barry is so good, but he was so bad until that Harry came past and you know Barney's written a piece saying come on it's time now. And I think Johnny Lou probably I think wrote that piece that Harry came quite a few years ago. And his numbers for buying are so good. But you sort of feel I wonder if Carly's done two color favor by dropping him last week and now saying that you know you can do it. I think he has done him a favor by dropping him. I don't think

Tukal would have any problem dropping them anyway. I don't know what to think now because

I read that Barony piece and I think Barony has written it before, you know, it's time to move on and without Kane. But you can't deny that that pass, which he spotted and played to Inch Perfect, was a game changer because it led to England's first goal, led to Ireland being reduced to 10 men. I read the Barony piece saying, you know, it's time to cut Harry loose and then I watched

Some talk post-match talk sport analysis in which it's they were saying he's answered his critics and and they weren't the only ones to say he's answered his critics so there's a strong argument to be made for both cases I suppose I would have my doubts that he would be England's first choice striker come the next World Cup I would be very surprised.

Yeah, it's interesting, George afterwards, Anthony Gordon said he didn't even see the pass. He was standing right behind Harry Kane. I don't know why he's doing there. Where do you know if you had to make it cool? Or do we not have to be that definite? He's still good enough to be in the squad and then just see what happens on any given game.

And that seems to be the crux of this, is that you have some people saying that he should never play, you know, last one was on the pod barn, he was saying he should basically retire from international football. Or you've got people saying that he has to start. I think there's a middle ground where Harry Kane can be used within the squad. In certain games, he'll be very important. You think of someone at Merriss to have closer at Germany, who basically made a career at the end of international career of being a squad player come off the bench. When he lacked that physicality and would pick teams off late on when they were tired, and I think Kane could do that.

But yes, his past changed the game, but I find it very hard to believe that had Ollie Watkins started, or even Dominic Slanky started really in the first half, and who offered a pressing intensity that's completely different to Harry Kane. I struggled to think we'd have looked as toothless as we did. It was like we were playing without a striker, and given that Ireland effectively played three centre backs and then two full backs, doubling up on our wingers. We found it incredibly difficult to actually move the ball at pace and get it into an area where Kane would be

would be able to get on the end of balls, but there was one moment in particular where Anthony Gordon got down the left hand side and cut it back into that area where what can scored from on in midweek and came was about three yards off, you know, behind the ball, not able to get up there with him because he lacks that intensity and we say that his

His numbers are buying a very good, and they are, but there's an element of the flat trap bully about it, though. He scored four goals, and the 9-2 win over Dynamo Zargreb. He scored three goals, and the away win over Horsham Keel with a 1-6-1. The games against Leverkusen in the 1-0 draw. He didn't score against Villa in the Champions League. He didn't score in that one either.

Um, you know, he's got to be the player that comes up in big moments and he did last night. There's no denying that, but I thought it was very harsh on Watkins if he wasn't able to continue starting in last night's game. And I thought at half time, you know, I was kind of hoping that we were going to see Harry Kane taken off. The past itself that we have to say is it's not just, I know you played a good ball that changed the game. It was

an absolutely ridiculous pass. I both the execution and the vision to see it was phenomenal. And one moment that basically carved open an island side up to that point, it kept us arms down pretty easily, gets us a penalty and their centre back sent off and that's the catalyst for a completely different game. So it's, you know, is it the classic good problem to have? I'm not sure, but it's definitely a problem for Tukor to work out. How do you

incorporate someone who is the country's record goal scorer, who is a captain, who comes up in moments both creatively and from a goal scoring perspective that can completely change and have changed the course of England games in the recent history, but also for the majority of the time when he's on the pitch, he's an issue, he's a problem. Good problem to have is an interesting phrase Jacob isn't it because

Lee Cassie has given eight players their debut. He's discovered a human, Angel Gomez, that none of us knew existed, just found him. Nonnie Madewake has been really good in the last couple of games. So now Tukal now has so many good problems to have.

And I don't know if that's feels like that is good, but I don't know if it is good. I think it's good. I think that one of the things that you spoke about quite a lot over the last week and beyond the broad that basic target of getting back into the.

the Nations League is widening the talent pool because it's something that Southgate spoke about quite a lot is the lack of English players available to him, the lack of English players playing regularly in the Premier League that that percentage has been going down and down over the last few years and obviously they've had this

very good generation, but what's coming up behind it, what's coming up behind Maguire, Stone's Walker, Harry Kane and all those others who've been so important down the years for Southgate, England, what's going to come through. And obviously, for Carson, he's got that long history and developmental football for England at the FA.

obviously taking under 21s to the Euro's win last year and so part of his brief, you know, having spoken with John McDermott and the FA was to see whether or not they could, for the next guy, have just the biggest selection pool and he's managed to do that pretty well. I mean, there's an element, I guess, of

He doesn't have so much to lose, obviously not qualifying for the back-and-back top tier would have been embarrassing, but on the basis he wasn't going to be here beyond these camps. He could try things, and that's a weird dynamic with Kastli that he's this quiet guy.

who doesn't really seem to enjoy sitting in front of 50 journalists after a game and speaking and he gets himself sort of in these tangles at times when when he's talking about whether or not he wants the job or doesn't want the job or I'd like to be back in the 21s and then you separate that out.

And when it comes to his selections, he's been very bold and he's taken these risks and he's tried things and he's given us a different way, a different idea, maybe of the way that England could play. So we looked at the false nine with, with Jude Bellingham, which, you know, didn't work, but at least he's shown us that it didn't work. And he's looked at a player, as you say in Gomez, who

is a very on English sort of player. This small deep-lying midfielder who just wants to pass and pass and pass and similarly Curtis Jones is a little bit more tenacious and energetic but again a player who has his head up and is always on the half turn. We've had

Fallbacks inverting in the way that we probably didn't see on the south gate and a very different kind of approach I think to possession that a much kind of small slow way of playing really the time has been a little bit harder probably to make work in the.

in the home games and the away games. I think they've been better in the away games, but they've had the control that Kathy's repeatedly spoken about, that they've lacked in the very big games, most obviously against Spain and Italy and those finals that they lost that they've basically been outplayed in the field. So he's given them that idea around it. He's brought in these players who they're not as glamorous, probably at the moment as

The guys who weren't there over the last week, all those withdrawals, Colparma, Foden, Saka, et cetera. But he's shown us that these players can come in and make an impact to international level. And as he said last night, the next camp is going to be very interesting to see how Tukul does approach it. That March squad, it's going to be hard to get into is what Kasti said last night.

The question against that, I guess, the unknown is that two calls on an 18 month contract and his brief, very much stated by everybody, is not to develop players within the English game, it's not to bring through young players, it's to win the World Cup, he said it at the

I'm bailing last month, if I don't win the World Cup, I won't be staying. If he does win the World Cup, maybe we'll be going into a Nations League A group with Tukal in charge and the development will become more of an issue. But for Tukal, it's that question of, do I need to win the World Cup and all any, that's my sole focus. Am I going to bring back the experienced players? Am I going to be looking at Marcus Rashford, Mason Mount?

Ben Chilwell, if he gets fit, you know, player who was very important for him at Chelsea, or am I going to stick with these guys like Lewis who were young, intense, hungry, most important in a few cases, not injured all the time. So it's going to be interesting to see whether that, what castly, the ideas that he's given to Cole, whether he continues with them, or if we go back to, I guess, a slightly safer, in one sense, kind of management, but you might say that it's

You know that kart castley is is is probably giving him some very very good options now to have and i think it's better that he's done it than not nothing says England aren't going to win the World Cup and somebody saying we've bought you here to win the World Cup and saying i'm here to win the World Cup and we should say Barry how what like

The joy of all those players who's got their first goal for England, I mean, four of them, I think Opta said like that hasn't happened since 1930 in one game, but like the joy on their faces, like it is worth remembering sometimes that, you know, these dreams are being made here.

Yeah, it is the stuff for school void dreams. And I suppose Taylor Harrewood-Bellis was the one that everyone was talking about because he is Roy Keene's future son-in-law. And as Roy Keene said afterwards, an ITV commentary, that's not done in Dostogee. Things can change very quickly in the Keene household.

But, yeah, just the absolute sheer delight on his face when he scored, not what you expect from a centre forward. The scoring, I mean, not our central defender, the scoring, not the joy on his face.

And you can't help but be pleased with them, I suppose. Well, I don't think Tougal will have any interest in bringing through young players. I think a lot of these guys could be waiting a long time for their next England appearance because, as Jacob has said, Tougal is very much a hired-gone with one job to do. And he won't be particularly fussed by the fact that these young players have been brought in and shown they can perform.

to be fair against very poor opposition that have been reduced to 10 men, but they've given themselves a chance, they've put themselves in the shop window, I suppose. I mean, George, we've mentioned this on Friday. The last two games, there's been such a balance, right? And that is the interesting thing about selection. It sort of seems to me like, I don't really mind if Bellingham or Foden play in the 10.

I just don't want both of them there. Like, I'd probably prefer Bellingham because he's played really well in the last two games. I don't really mind if Sacker or Matt Awakey played, but I don't want, you know, you can only really put one of them in and you want two central midfielders behind whoever you plan to tend to. So that 10 can be like Bellingham was in these last two games.

and hasn't also been so refreshing to play with two genuine wide players who want to get their full back consistently, which is something we didn't really have over the course of the Euros as well. It's amazing when you consider, I know the first half yesterday was pretty poor, but it still felt like we carried

We understood what we were trying to do better than in the Euros where we would just come up against a brick wall consistently and really struggling to break these teams down until there were some kind of individual brilliance to do so. I think there are definitely a couple of players if Thomas Tukel was watching, which given the way that he's spoken about the job prior to him actually coming through the door in January, you know, you wouldn't bet on it. But he, you know, I think when he's watching Curtis Jones, who let's remember is currently starting midfield for the Premier League favourites in Liverpool,

I find it very hard to believe that he wouldn't have watched his two performances against Greece and Ireland and thought to himself this is a pair that I want to work with. The same in Lewis Hall where I thought the whole yesterday was absolutely superb. He looks the real deal in terms of being a left-back who is really comfortable in possession, can provide a solid foundation from an attacking perspective and a solid in his 1v1 defending. He doesn't have much competition for his place right now.

Until luke sure gets fit if he ever gets fit and i'm sure jones in order two players where you know they probably won under consideration for for gas alpha gate and some although of course jones came into the preliminary squad. But i'd be amazed if they you know as long as they stay fit and still playing for clubs come march if they haven't got a big chance of getting in i think in that sense.

I think it's kind of the perfect interim job from Karlsley. Like he's brought some players up who've shown that they can do it. He's given two or more to think about. He's kind of almost given a trial run to certain players to show up there what they're capable of doing. He's in that defeat against Greece. I think he answered a few questions where some people seem to think we could just take all of our attacking talents, shove it on the pitch, take the hand break off and just go and play vibes football and that's in footballs as easy as that. It quite clearly isn't.

And, you know, we've seen a resounding win against Ireland and a win against Greece where people might be happy to say, you know, we should be beating Greece, but Greece has record at home in recent times is incredibly strong. And, you know, they haven't lost three nil at home to teams to, you know, they've played most of the best teams in Europe. And I think it was a one-nil defeat against the Netherlands, a one-nil defeat against France. They're not a team that are easy to swap aside, and yet we did it with, but basically a beat team.

Loads to like, and I agree, I think the reason why football management is often so cyclical is because you get managers who get very, very wedded to certain players. And I get to be sold out to an extent with Carsey picking metres under 21 squad. But I think two couple will come into this with fresh eyes.

That should mean that we don't have the kind of issues that we had in the summer where you've got Gareth Southgate effectively trying to wedge certain players into his team because they're the ones he wants to play rather than being the best for the job. I think what we can probably safely say now that had Anthony Gordon played on the left hand side in the Euros, it's pretty hard to not to think that he had carried more of a threat than Phil Vodendid.

I think now Max is probably the time to address the elephant in the room, which is your scathing criticism bordering on ridicule of Jacobs. What turned out to be a very perceptive piece about Lewis Hall last week.

Well, I didn't criticize Jacob per se. I criticized the headline which said it added intrigue, and it didn't intrigue me. That doesn't mean I didn't think it was an excellent piece of work, Jacob, and I don't want you to feel offended. He did, to be fair to him, or he did play incredibly well.

But I don't know if I found it intriguing. I wasn't intrigued watching him. I was just going, there's a left back with a left foot. That's not intriguing. That's just what you want there, isn't it? Well, I don't know if you think that last week that everybody was saying that two calls not here. None of the players are here when you come away from a St. George's Park.

Long afternoon, and you're thinking, oh my god, what do we have to get into? I wasn't treated when you're sitting on that train back from Litchfield, Trent Valley. Fair enough. I mean, anything's intriguing. Once you've had that day, I guess, isn't it? Interestingly, Barney wrote about to cool, not being there, saying, you know, what could he possibly doing?

that took precedence, all-day bottomless brunch, hair transplant recovery period, day of the Jack or Marathon. Like, was the general vibe, like, why is Thomas Tukal not here? Do we care, Jake? The vibe all through the ever since Tukal took the job as being why hasn't he just started from November? Why hasn't he just immediately come in? And, yeah, Karsling was our start to the game.

wouldn't Thomas have benefited more from being here and actually watching those players and learning something about them and Kastli obviously didn't want to rock the boat and just butted it away, he's an elite coach, he'll be able to work it out for himself. It's never really been adequately explained why he's not started, there's been this

he'll have to sole focus on the World Cup qualifying campaign and obviously we'll just let Lee, we've been very clear that Lee's going to have the nation's lead but obviously it's kind of been out of Tukal's hands that he could have been just plunged into the nation's lead playoff in March if they finished second in the group. So yeah it's been a little bit strange and obviously you do wonder if some of those players who pulled out last week would have been there if Tukal had been there but I guess it's probably a positive that

We were able to see the youngsters that classally brought in because the seniors weren't there. Jacob, there was an awful lot of outrage from certain quarters of the England press pack about this topic. Two girls non-presence.

even going so far as to blame him for the fact that various players hadn't turned up, even though he hasn't started a job yet. Was that outrage genuine or was it confected by people who were also struggling to find something interesting to write about after a long afternoon at St. George's Park? I mean, I wasn't outraged. I do think that you probably get a sense of

What to call is all about when he's coming into this job that he's not just immediately starting and that it's all just about this world one World Cup campaign and that he's ultimately a hard gun and and obviously they've made that They've made that distinction and they've gone down that route and I guess it it's if you're disappointed about the fact that they've not gone not shown too much of a care for the pathway then maybe Maybe that's where people are coming from a little bit on that

Sean says, no shots on target until the refs sent a man off. Denied two Pennos, a heap of 1,000, a bunch of yellows for nothing. The score flat as England, Ireland are not in the same class, we know that. But they were genuinely robbed. Genuinely robbed. Look, they definitely should have had a penalty for that marquee shirt pull on Evan Ferguson, which dragged

are brave boy in green to the ground, no question about that, that wasn't given. I think the Kyle Walker foul on Smolik, let's just say I've seen them given for less, so that would have put us two nil up at half time. Let's be charitable and say one nil up at half time.

Would that have changed the outcome of the game? I don't think so, but it would have been England something to think about as Jacob has already sort of tacitly or well not implied more or less said. In the first half we dragged England down to our level and I think that was the plan, dragged them down to our level and beat them with experience of being bad.

But, look, the only player I think on the Ireland team would get near, even that depleted squad is Queen V and Kelleher. Maybe Evan Ferguson, nobody else would get near it. So, I have no problem with us being beaten, but I was very disappointed with the way they just more or less gave up once England scored their second goal. And, you know, Himer, Helgumsson said afterwards, he was lost for words.

I don't think he was particularly impressed with the manner in which Ireland capitulated either, but we're just not very good. We don't have many good players and we were lucky to beat Finland and we got hammered by England and that's

fair reflection of where we are at the moment but it would be not if we had got that penalty would have made things a little bit more interesting the island press conference wasn't very angry but the journalists weren't very angry to what they want bashing the manager around the head. Is it just sort of i think it's just weary resignation at this stage because expectations are so low. That but i i think i think this is.

Halgroom since third window as our manager and

I'm not particularly impressed. I thought he'd be good, and I haven't been impressed with him. And he doesn't seem to have any idea what his best team is, despite his limited options when it comes to selection. Like Finland, we beat Finland, but they played through our midfield with ease in the first game of this window. And he addressed that problem by moving Nathan Collins into midfield. This game playing one up front and

It didn't work, but it worked up to a point until the point where scales were sent off. One positive for me was Festi Obisalei. I thought I had a great game. He was really exciting to watch. He plays for Watford, Unlone, from Udeneze, I believe. And I don't see much of him on a weekly basis, but he was fun. He was a shining light.

on another wise dark night for our football. I was just thinking Barry, no one can say weary resignation with as much weary resignation. That seems like a good place to end part one. We'll do the rest of the home nations in part two.

Hello, Grace Den here with news. I've been cooking up fresh episodes of my podcast, Come for Eating, and they are now ready to be devoured. Chock full of chat and brimming with autumn cheer. Join me as I talk to the likes of Stanley Tucci, Vanessa Feltz, Richard E. Grant, and Ragan Bolman about life, love, and the grubs that are seeing them through. New episodes every Tuesday. Listen, wherever you get your popcorn.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. It is the FSA Awards. Your last chance to vote is today. I'd better schedule some tweets and some blue skies. Goodness. Can you schedule blue skies? I don't know yet. Anyway, search FSA Awards 2024. Vote or click the link in the description in the show notes. We are up for podcasts of the year.

Many members of the football weekly family are nominated. Robin Cowan, Nader Nohar, Johnny Lew, Jonathan Wilson, women's football weekly. It's Susie Rack as well. I think that is it. Anyway, Georgia, are you in the same category as us? We are delighted because this is the first year where we're not up for podcast of the year against you guys, which is basically an impossible task to win. Because it's a public road. And this is very popular. We are up for fan media of the year, which is really exciting with some of the very

Good content creators and it's not a public vote which means we don't have to campaign which is also kind of welcome. So I look forward to getting up and applauding Joel and Barry getting onto the stage hopefully in a couple of weeks time and maybe I'll get on with them as part of the family. Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, your votes. Voting matters. Don't be complacent everybody. Just because we're the continuity candidate, it doesn't mean that we'll definitely win.

To Scotland, a big win over the ageing Croatians, Barry, and they really need, I'm not sure they deserved it, but they've been OK in this nation's league and haven't got what they deserve, so probably due a bit of luck. Yeah, Scotland are currently bottom of their group, but they can still, if they be pole in a Portugal beat Croatian in the last round of games,

They could end up in the quarter-final, they could get relegated or they could end up in a relegation playoff. So it's very much all to play for Scotland.

I, I wouldn't necessarily agree they were lucky to win this. I thought they deserved it. This was very much the Ben Dokeshow. He tore Johnson. He was brilliant. He was quite a new one, several new ones, tore him into them throughout. Could have scored himself.

Copped provided loads of crosses a good pullback to Billy Gilmore who blazed over when he should have hit the target. He, as I say, kept taking on and beating Guardial on one occasion he forced to save Al-Katarsky at the near post.

And then he eventually set up the goal because he in almost repeat move he brought a save out of katarski who could only back the ball into the path of john again who scored and it was a welcome goal for john again who has.

Not struggle a bit in playing for Scotland of late and wasn't actually picked for this game. He was on the bench. He came off the bench to score. Ben Dolk. I mean, Steve Klark, as Dauer Scott's men go, he's pretty much right up there. But you could see how pleased and excited he was about this performance from Dolk, who

He's a Liverpool player, but he's on loan at Middlesbrough, and I have no idea how he's getting on there, but George can probably tell me. He's been unbelievably good. He is. I always think the first loans you can understand have a player. He's played first in football, obviously, for self-tacan for Liverpool. But this is the first time that he's regularly starting games in men's senior football. And first loans, even with very good players, can often be a little bit underwhelming because it takes some time for players to get to grips with the physicality.

You know, the impacts that the games have whilst also, you know, having to settle in at a new club and other things like that. But there's been none of that with this. You know, he's settled it straight into one of the better teams in the championship. He just loves to take on the full back over and over again. He's a boxer tricks, loves to drop in a step over and go around the outside. He can cut inside too.

He looks to me to be the real deal and I cannot imagine that he'll be playing second tier football beyond this season. He looks like he'll be a matter of asset for Liverpool and also clearly now for Scott. It's interesting what George says there because Liam DeLap is an example of a player who's

I think he had three loan spells from Man City in the championship and didn't really impress on any of them. I think his last one was curtailed by injury at Hull City, but he's adapted to life in the Premier League very well. I mean, it's early days so far. Players can struggle when they go out and learn.

And we're way too quick to write them off as well, and people often, you know, they see 10 games of a 19-nomb. That was definitely the case with him at Stoke, where he went to Stoke with a big reputation from City, and he really struggled to show any kind of form, to suggest that he would go on to be the player that he's already becoming now.

I think we can often with, you know, when players are coming through academies, they're often eased in very slowly. You look at Phil Ford in the Man City, to Pep Guardiola, the best part of two seasons, really to integrate him into being a genuine starter consistently. Whereas when you're a lone player, you know, if you're a Middlesbrough, and you're going out and getting Ben Doke, you're bringing him in in order to be someone who's going to elevate your quality immediately. So there's not much, you know, there's not much patience shown to these guys, but actually,

It can take a bit of time. And if Dokes can improve further from what we're seeing already at the moment, then he's really going to be some player.

Wales drew Neil Nillowet in Turkey, having already drawn Neil Nill with Turkey in September, hopefully the beginning of an international stalemate that will go on forever. Turkey, I mean, Baz, Turkey got a penalty later on, which I thought was so harsh. And, you know, in a way, it was good for Wales and apologies to our due respect to our Turkish distance that you decide can put it wide, because I thought that was an outrageous decision.

Yeah, I mean, this was an in a little, but it was quite a decent in a little. It was very entertaining.

Probably should have won easily, but their finishing was dreadful. They had two or three guilt-head chances. They had the penalty, which hit the post when Darulo had gone the wrong way. Wales remained unbeaten under Craig Bellaby. Their second in their league B group, two points behind Turkey.

So they could still win it. They certainly could go through a playoff. And every reason to be cheerful for Wales, but I do think they got away with one here. Yeah, I think so. I mean, Jacob, he hasn't been in such a breath of fresh air. I don't know if you've obviously been at St. George's Park probably every time he's spoken, but I love the way he talks. Craig Bellamy has always been pretty forthright and everything he says to me as a player and a manager.

I remember him coming in because he was obviously at Burnley, so he was company's assistant at Burnley and he came in after the Chelsea game last season where the Drew tool and company had been sent off in the first half protesting a dodgy penalty and Bellamy came afterwards.

didn't really hold back. He's just very honest and it's good to see. I mean, you know, he's always been pretty interesting. I know that he's obviously got a bit of a, he's had a reputation down the years and, you know, he's probably rubbed a few people up the runway at times, but he's also very interesting on football. He's clearly got a lot of very good ideas. So it's good to see a young coach doing well because that wasn't an easy job to take over after they obviously not done so well in recent times.

other request is in for an Ellis James voice note on Wednesday. Two ticks yet to go blue. Interestingly, he has been on WhatsApp. So like he's seen, but he hasn't clicked on my message. So like he was last seen today after I sent the message, but he's yet to look at the message. So I don't know if that's he's ignoring you.

Well, I'd imagine your message came during the school run or the prep ahead of the school run, which I believe is a chaotic time in James Towers in South London. It is. I don't know. I did the school run this morning and I'm here. So did I.

There you go. Yeah, you both did the school run. So, you know, really, if Ellis wants to put his finger out, he'll turn up on the pod more than just a voice. He's like, he'll be there for the whole thing. No, it's like office work. No, it's like, I don't, I don't just like anything. I just, he hasn't, he hasn't caught something intriguing recently.

No, he hasn't said anything's intriguing yet. So, you know, that's where I go. That's when I go rogue, Jacob. That's when I go absolutely rogue. So I messaged him now saying, do you think this is intriguing? I'll show you intriguing, James. Anyway, yes, we'll hear from Alice. I'm certain on Wednesday, Northern Ireland's good form, continue with the tune of Whenever Belarus, that goes from Daniel Ballard and Dion Charles, where at Luxembourg.

Monday evening should win their group, but when they win that Luxembourg have no wins, so all do very well for Michael O'Neill back in the fold. The rookie says anyone got a direct line to Philippe. Is he okay? Can he tell us what Rabio is? Yes, France beat Italy 3-1. To pip them to win that group, Rabio scored two headers. The second was great.

Philippe says that was one of the best meaningless matches I've ever seen in a long while. Manian, Dean, Kone, Rabio, yes. He says, Turan, all outstanding. The other is very good too. France top the group thanks to this win. Guess the talk will all be about France playing so well without Kylian and Bape. Is that having a great time at the moment? So yes, yes Jacob. Will this be intriguing? This is intriguing. The other game in that group was quite a surprising result.

with Israel beating Belgium, seeing this morning that it was on a neutral. It was in Budapest. They beat them, I think, 86-minute winner, with a terrible piece of play from the Belgian defence. Attempting to play out from the back got caught.

Israel scored late on. Israel still finished bottom of the group on goal difference, but level with Belgium and seeing a lot of stuff in there that the Belgium manager to desk goes probably going to get sacked. For that, yeah, I'm falling out with the Tebow Court to ask that this is to desk goes big mistake. Wasn't it? So Spain Portugal.

Germany and France in the finals then, which is quite a good set of four for whenever that is. Elsewhere Erling Harling got a hat trick in a final whenever Kazakhstan and Sweden won their group. A front three of Kuleseski, Isaac and Gokkarez is quite a good one.

isn't it? And Mike says during New Zealand's 8-1 win over Vanuatu, it dawned on me that New Zealand now have the virtual automatic qualifications sewn up for World Cup 2026 under this new expanded format, but anyone have ever had an easier time qualifying for World Cups. If you like, your Vanuatu's Paul Watson will be with us on Wednesday, so he can give us a deep dive into their equaliser against Chris Wood's men. And that'll do for part two, we'll round off the pod with a bit of EFL.

Hello, it's Grace Dent here from The Guardian's Comforating Podcast. This week, I sat down with comedian Phil Wang who dish the dirt and the importance of a prompt post-show meal. My wonderful tour manager became expert at timing the delivery order so that it arrived literally the second I got off stage. And people say the famous people are treated like babies. That's Comforating. Listen, wherever you get your products.

Hi, it's Helen Pid here, presenter of Today in Focus. Whether it's crucial elections, conflict zones or the fast-changing climate, we take you right to the heart of the story with our network of reporters from all over the world. The Guardian doesn't have a billionaire owner, we are completely independent of corporate interests or political influence. We're funded by readers and listeners just like you. If you can, please do choose to support The Guardian. Just follow the link in the episode description.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So not a lot of EFL was happening, George, a smattering of League-1 games, including an excellent point for Cambridge at home to high-flying Barnsley, to exorcise the demons of the 6-1 hammering that I was reminded about a million times, and not that I'd obviously knew the score. You don't have to keep telling me everybody that Peterborough smashed us. But the commentary is sacking Mark Robbins. We haven't done a lot on it, and he'd done such a brilliant job. Is it the outrage that I think it is?

Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, when you look at it from an individual job perspective, I don't think there are many better jobs that have taken place in this country in my lifetime, frankly. Mark Robbins took over a site who were destined for relegation into league two. That very season, he won.

What was the EFL trophy and whatever guys it was back then, in their relegation season, then took them up through League 2 into League 1, through League 1 into the championship. And since they've been in the championship, they lost two pretty important penalty shootouts, one was in the playoff final against Luton.

and one was in the FA Cup semi-final against Manchester United last season. Like, to take over a club heading to the basement of English football or of the AFL and then be sacked, what, seven seasons later after delivering so many great days and good moments off the back of what has been a fairly underwhelming two or three months seems incredibly harsh. Like, I'm generally, you know, when fans look at managers' jobs,

Looking at a league table and say that it's unfair or whatever, I kind of always counterbalance that by saying, well, you know, there are mitigating circumstances at play. We can't always judge what known as doing purely based on a league table. But in this case, to not give Robins the opportunity to turn it around seemed incredibly harsh.

There was a big moment in the summer where Adi Vivesh, who'd been his assistant manager throughout his Teddy there, left the club in the summer. And that led to a lot of questions from the fans as to what had happened there. A lot of questions about Doug King, then you, or relatively new owner. And Doug King did something that we never really see clubs do, where he called the fans for him off the back of the decision that was made.

And rather than it being any kind of PR path, thanking what Robins for the job he had done, basically came out swinging. And he said that the reason that Vivesh had left in the summer was because he and Robins had fallen out and Robins had insisted that he was sacked and that upset him. And that seemed to change the way that a lot of Coventry fans felt about the decision itself, albeit I still think that the performances that we'd seen from Coventry as bad as they had been early in the campaign,

He was sacked off the back of a 2-1 defeat at home to Derby, where they were by far the better team, and prior to that had gone to Middlesbrough and beaten M3-0 and beaten Luton 3-2 the game before. It felt unbelievably harsh timing, especially with the game away at Sunderland coming up just a couple of days later before the international break. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty crazy decision. All eyes on Hilda higher next, with some interesting names being linked to the post. Do we know why Mark Robinson, maybe Vivesh, fell out? Do we have that intel?

So it seems to be the case that Adevesh said in an interview in the local press that Mark Robbins was hard to work with. And Mark Robbins proved it to be true by saying, well, if you think that's the case, then you can leave. It seems a bit petty, doesn't it? I mean, it seems a bit like, yeah.

Yes. Well, especially when you've achieved so much together. You can't see Tony in print. Surely you'd ring him up and go, was that jokey? I mean, Barry took it very personally when I said, if I lived his life, I'd be dead. So make you know, I don't know.

It seems like surely just have a chat if you're getting on. But the thing is, but the way to, you know, if Mark Robbins called a fans forum tomorrow and got 200 of Coventry fans in a room and gave his side of the story, I'm sure it'd been very different. You know, we're only getting one side from the owner who's trying to, you know, win favor from a fan base who I think they'd have preferred to build a statue of Mark Robbins rather than sack him quite frankly when the announcement came out. Is there an element where it's a little bit similar to Luton with Rob Edwards where obviously he's

taken up a tea. I mean he obviously got them up and nobody expected that to happen and then they did quite well last season obviously go down and now they're struggling again and people are talking about you know is this you know do you need a change there and whether or not it's just kind of a kind of fatigue that takes over a kind of motivation issues because you've had those highs and then you're back in and you go okay what to be achieved now similarly with Coventry you know

had the two defeats that you talk about over the last couple of seasons, which I guess can maybe, I don't know, hit the, just the mentality and dent that kind of, the feeling that's there and make it difficult to go again. Yeah, for sure. And there's something to, I mean, especially with what you say there at Luton, where I went to Luton, two Oxford, two, a couple of weeks ago in the away end. And I couldn't believe how flat, kind of what the road was. I haven't been there so many times, it's all normally,

You know, the archetype or tough place to go, whereas it felt like quite an easy place to go that night. And I spoke to a friend of mine who's looting fine after the game. And he said, you know, frankly, when you've lost season, you've gone toe to toe and done very well against Manchester City Arsenal Liverpool, and you've got to get up for a Tuesday night at home to Oxford. It doesn't really quite kind of hit the same. And that, I guess, is an element of that with with Luton with Coventry.

The difficulty there is that they've been so close to returning to the Premier League. You know, they're a club who believe they should be in the Premier League, who've dropped away so far away from it and got so close. You know, with that penalty to shoot out defeat, you feel like there was no reason really for the momentum to stop. And I'm pretty convinced that Hadmar Roman's been given time, he would have maintained the level. But, you know, if they rate the relationship between the owner and the manager becomes untenable, then I guess things have to change. And that's what they've decided to do.

Lee Karlsley, Rudrennister, went Frank Lampard among the favourites. So when will Lampard be unveiled? Relatively soon, I think, by the sounds of things. Yeah, it sounds like... Really? Yeah, I mean, the reports this morning, it's being reported in by Skye in Germany, I think, that Lampard's in advanced talks to take over there. Doug King was asked about this in the Transforum, and with a rice mile, he kind of admitted that he was one of the

one of the candidates. I think Lampard deserves another opportunity at championship level. At Derby, he beat Biosa's leads over two legs in the playoffs. Yes, he had the likes of Tomori and Mason Mountain in that side, but maybe if you hire Frank Lampard as manager, you do just get to take two or three of Chelsea's best young players on loan, which in itself is a fairly positive thing.

Obviously Chelsea times two and Everton didn't go to plan but I think they're mitigating factors there. I'm not saying I think he's necessarily good and personally I think swapping Mark Robbins for Frank Lampard would be just a frankly ridiculous decision to make on paper but I wouldn't write him off.

Quite yet he kind of has to give frank lampard the job now because saying that lampard had applied for a problem is outrageous yeah, you can say that it's just so professional I've applied to match of the day

Yeah, but it's fine for you to say you've applied for it. It's not fine for the head of BBC Sport to say that you've applied for it without your permission. I think he hinted that he'd applied rather than saying it outright. And there was also an amazing, great social media storm in Coventry on Friday night where Frank Lampard posted a photo of him in Westminster Cathedral for some reason. And he was holding a t-shirt that was

light blue and he had loads of commentary fans bringing up the commentary kit and the light blue t-shirt wondering if he was holding a commentary shirt as if that would be some sign because he's going to take over as manager he took a football shirt to church with him one evening.

I mean it all depends on how well he gets on with ad vivash. That's the key to all of this. Well, that works with Chelsea. Right. So, and he'll know. I mean, ad or no, Frank is hard to work with. You wanted to mention MK Don's. Producer Joel wanted to mention Scott Lindsay, their manager, who has the most Kent career, football career imaginable.

And he sent me the Wikipedia of Scott Lindsay's football career, drilling him, Dover, sitting born, Ashford, Canvey, graves in and northly, welling, folkston and victim, mates and sitting born, folkston again. I mean, Canvey Island is in Essex, but that is, has anyone played for more teams than this? No, Bromley. Where's Bromley? Whits to bull athletic, or whatever they are. Where's, you know, anyway,

Anyway, M.K. Don, what's interesting about them? They were, on last season, the Mike Williamson, they had an amazing run to the playoff semi-final where they were humbled by Scott Lindy's Crawley, absolutely walloped over the two legs and they reacted to that by signing Crawley's best player in Liam Kelly.

They then reacted to that after a poor starts the season with Mike Williamson choosing to move to Carlisle by hiring the manager who oversaw that. I think I'm right in saying that they've got the second most points in league two since. Scott Lindsay took over, he decided to move on from league one, crawlie and move down a lead to league two. They were bought by a Q80 businessman in the summer so I think.

financially, they're going to be a powerhouse now in League 2. And they got Scott Hogan in, who I think is a really smart signing. Someone who might not still be a championship level striker, but he scored a lot of goals at this level back when he was coming up through the ranks at Rochdale and then at Brentford's. And he's, you know, for a side that created a lot of chances, I think he scored a lot of goals. They were two-0 down against Cheltenham after 30 minutes on Saturday, came back to win at 3-2 as their third consecutive comeback win.

and I think they're a team who, despite the fact that they consistently are beaten by AFC Wimbledon when they come up against each other in League and Cup, they look like they're a team who are, and what looks like a very strong renewing of lead to, we have to say, Port Vail looking strong, Warsaw looking strong, crew after a poor start looking very good as well, but MKdons are marching their way towards the top of the table.

Oh, and in League 1, Stockport beat Rexum 1-0. That's not quite a good side as well. I saw them defeat us quite comfortably in the end of the season. They're both going well, those sides, aren't they? But halting Rexum's automatic ride to second behind Birmingham in League 1.

For sure, the Wicom fans will tell you that it's there. That's their place to be. Of course they will. Wicom obviously beat Stockport 5-0 a couple of weeks ago at Stockport. Well, they bounced back from that with the 5-0 win over Bolton and now 1-0 win over Rexham. These two sides have obviously come up from National League and then through League 2 and are now going toe-to-toe in League 1. Stockport by far, the better team within the game. Rexham struggling away from home to kind of create much of note.

But the gold of the, maybe the gold of the weekend, but certainly the gold of the day in League 1 was from Louis Barrie to win this game. A player who thrived last season on loan at League 2 Stockport. They loaned him, asked him to loan him back out there to Dave Chaloner. You would think that if it wasn't to Stockport, he'd probably really got a championship loan because he's looking too good for League 1 now as well. And I think if Stockport are to challenge for the top six, which I imagine they will do, Barrie will play a huge part in that.

Jacob, finally, West Ham with your West Ham hat on. How intriguing are you finding the Lopateggui era? Not very intriguing at all. It's pretty boring so far. Well, the football is pretty boring, apart from when they're being run through by opposition midfield, basically. And in that sense, they can make again quite entertaining, like a way at Tottenham, when they were completely overpowered by

Saar and Kudasevsky and all the others. It's been pretty underwhelming so far after a lot of signings coming in in the in the summer a lot of money spent by overseen by the new technical director Tim Steitden who who certainly you know he's done a he's got a

good reputation built up on social media. I think it seems since he came in in 2023 and whether that actually stands up to any real scrutiny. I'm not so sure given the business that they've done in the last couple of windows and the football that they're playing obviously stiked and it's not a big secret that he fell out with David Moyes in Moyes final year. West Ham and change was always likely but

the change that they've made in bringing in Lopatecki wasn't ever really too sure about it, given something, it's just given really his, I think that he's got a very good CV of first glance working at Ramadreid, working at Spain and winning Europa League at Sevilla, but I think if you sort of interrogate it a little bit more,

I'm not sure how much it stands up. It's been pretty poor so far and he's under a lot of pressure. They play Newcastle away next Monday. You would expect them to lose that and then after that it's Arsenal at home, 5.30 on the 30th of November, followed by two winnable games if you want to call them that, given their form at the moment.

famously always been resistant to making quick changes under this ownership. And so obviously, I think that under a different kind of ownership, maybe you would have seen a change already, Lopatecki going, but they haven't done that so far. They've managed to

Because mainly because Manchester United's ineptitude and the refereeing ineptitude in that game, avoid what should have been a really humiliating defeat a couple of weeks ago, instead it was 10 hark who goes. And so he's just clung on. But they've had the international break now.

was that maybe the time to do it. They didn't lose that game against Everton, so he sort of just clings on a little bit more, gets a bit more time, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're just looking at what's out there now. If they've used these two weeks to have a sense of what they might be able to bring in, the problem I think was probably for a lot of clubs.

is that the managers who aren't in work at the moment, it's not necessarily too attractive. It's hard to work out exactly who you might bring in. I think that might apply to a few clubs who might be thinking about making a change. You might think, well, if you're not going to go to another club and pay the buyout for their manager, who do you, who do you appoint? There's two zitches out there after leaving Dortmund, Javi,

I'm not sure whether he wants to work at West Ham, whether he would even be that good, Graham Potter, but they've never seen, he's obviously been linked with a lot of jobs since leaving Chelsea and has, for a number of reasons, not got or not wanted to take them and they've never seen particularly hot on Potter anyway.

I feel like it's something that's just going to limp on. And if there's no massive improvement before Christmas, then I wouldn't be surprised to see a change. All right. Well, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Barry. Thank you. Thank you, George. Thanks, Max. Cheers, Jacob. Thank you. Thanks, both of you, for doing the school run. And then turning up here. See what I listels on Wednesday. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Steep. This is The Guardian.