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Hello and welcome to Hollywood Sources. Thank you very much for finding us. Follow the podcast. Subscribe to it and make sure you stick around and get all of our future episodes. I'm Calla MacDonald. We're recording on Thursday, the 21st of November. And here's Jeff Aberdeen, who was Chief of Staff to the 1st Minister, Alex Samond. Hello, Jeff.
Good morning. And Andy McKeevers here. He was director of communications for the Scottish Conservatives. Hello, Andy. Good morning. Hello. Hi. Now we are dropping into your feed a day later than usual. It's Thursday. This is really because of Andy McKeevers being particularly annoying with his diary this week. So everybody's out of sorts. Nobody's particularly sure what's going on and we're all in places that we really shouldn't be.
But anyway, we're going to make the most of it, so thanks Andy. Appreciate it. All right. Yes. Throw me to the rules. Fine. Yes. Okay. Whatever. Carry on. Carry on. Should also say, actually, one of the reasons I'm not in my usual place is because tonight Andy and I are attending the herald Scottish politician of the year awards in Edinburgh. Jeff is not going, but that's okay, Jeff. Jeff doesn't love these things. Absolutely demonstrated.
I will miss you, Jeff. I miss you. And who are you going to heckle? Who are you looking forward to heckling at the awards this evening? Well, as you know, not a heckler. I work across parties, not just to the Lib Dems. So I generally like to maintain good relationships with all members of the press, across all newspapers and broadcast, and all politicians across
Almost all parties. So, no, I won't be heckling out this be sick and having a wee glass of wine and chattering away from us identity positions. Who should win in your view, Andy? As politician of the year, who should win? Well, Kate Forbes is a politician of the year. There you go, straight answer.
Yeah, we are. So it's John's 20 Kate Forbes and Anna Starwater, the three who are all very, all, you know, I have, I'm sometimes hard on the body politic in Scotland and the quality of them, but that's three people who are genuinely of very, very good quality. But for me, Kate Forbes is the, is the generational quality in Scottish politics. And so I think she deserves to win. There you go. Straight question, straight answer, boom, boom.
You know, actually, I was thinking about this today. So just a couple of minutes of reflection on the death of John Prescott, who, of course, was deputy prime minister when Tony Blair was in office. He was key to new labor success all those years ago. And it did make me think how important deputies are to a party. That was one of my reflections on John Prescott, because I don't know if anybody ever saw him as a kind of prime ministerial candidate in his context. But actually, that's all right, because he was a great deputy. Is that fair to say, do you think, Jeff?
Yeah, I mean, I didn't know John Prez got well. I didn't meet him once, quite a funny occasion. I was going as a young parliamentary aide in Westminster from Port Colours House to towards the Commons itself and Alec introduced
John Prescott to me they were walking behind me and i didn't really know my way around west mr. This point so i turn was a very pleased to meet you in a very big chat as we were walking and i assume that they were carrying on and i was going off a door one of these big doors that got i think the doors at west mr.
And I opened the door and I walked up the stairs only a year. Oh, you cheeky bugger. Sorry if that's doing a disservice to his accent, his northern accents there. But I didn't realize he was actually following me up the stairs and so I'd slammed the door in his face. So that was my only bleeding moment with John Prescott. Well, what I would say is, and I don't know if this is a fair comparison or not, but when I heard about his death, it immediately made me think of Bruce Crawford and the SMP that
that kind of character that is unflappable, that everyone can have respect for, that brings the party together. And that was kind of Bruce's role during our time in government, particularly as Minister of Parliamentary Business. And I kind of felt that there were similar characters, but I didn't know well. I don't want to over-claim that. And obviously, everything goes to his family.
Two reflections. My first one is that we, I don't think we're going to do accents on this podcast anymore. I don't think that's going to fly. Sorry. Probably for the best.
My second one is that, and you've just made me think there when you made your point about deputies, but I actually think that a good deputy basically reaches the parts and does the things that the leader either can't or doesn't particularly want to do. So, I think you could definitely see the press got that for Blair. If I remember back to my own experiences, that's definitely what, back in way back in the day, that's what Annabelle Goldie used to do for David Maclechie, you know, she used to do kind of tea and scones with the members, which was not really his thing so much.
And if you look back at other combinations in politics, Scottish and UK politics, through time, I think the best ones have been, have been that. I suppose you could argue that Starmer and Reiner kind of have that as well, that she reaches bits of the Labour Party that he doesn't necessarily particularly shine with. So I think that's probably the best combos are the ones where the deputy can fill the gaps left by the leader. Yeah. Yeah.
It was certainly a very successful partnership, wasn't it Blair and Prescott? So yes, condolences to those who did know him and his family and friends as well. Right, let's go on to some of the Scottish political issues of the week. And actually, I think we're going to pick up kind of where we left off with Stephen Flynn and his political future really, and primarily because of the controversy, the internally inficing within the SNP,
over his announcement that he wants to be a candidate for MSP, and ideally, of course, wants to be an MSP. All of this is kind of spiralled and escalated, so MSP's were to be given a vote on banning so-called double-jobbing, and therefore ending Stephen Flynn's bid to sit in both parliaments at the same time. Conservative Graham Simpson, he said he'd be re-tabling his amendments, so it could be heard before Christmas. It's been a really fascinating example of
difficulties within a political party. And Andy, I'm going to come to you first on this, I think, this week, because on this podcast, actually, both of you kind of last week expressed support for the idea of Stephen Flynn making, well, a move to Hollywood, but simultaneously having both MP and MSP titles. Are you reconsidering that now? What do you make of the reaction there has been in this last week?
I don't think I'm reconsidering it on the basis of the reaction because it was always just my own view. I mean, my personal view is that I'm driven entirely by getting good people into this parliament. I think this parliament is struggling. I think the parliament is suffering. I don't think it's developing in the way that we wanted it to 25 years ago. I'm starting to struggle, say, to say to people that devolution is working, even though I'm a proponent of it. And I want the place to be better. So I want the best people in it. And that includes people who
currently at Westminster, whether that be for Labour or the Tories or the SNP or the Lib Dems, I prefer them to be in Hollywood. So that's my starting point. I'm not changing my mind on that starting point, and so I don't really have a change of view on the Stephen Flynn situation, which is that I personally would be totally comfortable with him being here and doing two jobs. But that's a different situation to
what's going on within his own party. And I think what's been made very clear is that there's obviously a little bit of a movement against him in the party. He's a pretty controversial figure in the parties. He goes for what he wants, and he can be controversial. When he does it, he ruffles a lot of feathers. That doesn't bother me particularly. But then I'm not in the SNP. And I think what's emerged over the last few days is that there are a lot of people in the SNP who does bother. And that's why you see what you see.
Yeah, well on that note, we're recording on Thursday morning, I think that's just worth mentioning. Ivan McKee has been speaking to BBC Radio Scotland this morning, that's why I say that. He's the public finance minister, he's obviously an SNP, MSP as well, and he's been complimentary of Stephen Flynn's talent, but he says, quote, I think double-jobbing, working as an MP and an MSP isn't sustainable.
Good back to what you said about last week. I think we all said that there was going to be controversy. I think you all expected that, but I think probably what's been a little bit surprising to Stephen is just how much it's come from within his own party. I think that's probably what's this point of most. Listen, he's got three options ahead of him in my view.
Number one, he can tough out and continue his plans to be both MP and MSP for Aberdeen South, and called Bluff over his parliamentary colleagues, and indeed the NEC of the party as well. Secondly, he could announce that he isn't standing for Holyrood at all and just continue as an MP.
Or thirdly, he could announce his attention to resign his seat at Westminster, if he's successful in his bid to become MSP for Aberdeen South. Now, I don't think Stephen is going to do number one. I think he'll have to announce, for the reasons that you outline and the controversy that's created, I think he's going to have to say
that he doesn't want to take his reputation, but most importantly, have the party infighting any longer. So I expect that that'll be something he'll be seeing pretty soon, I would have thought. On number two, I hope he doesn't decide not to stand for hollywood at all, because I believe Steven, unlike a lot of the commentators, and indeed his particle is actually no Steven quite well. And yes, he's ambitious. I have no issue with that. I think you have to be ambitious and polluted.
And if you want to be a leader and i think he doesn't want to come a leader but he also does put the party first in a lot of his decision-making and one of the reasons he wanted to come back to hollywood was to make a difference and and i think that should be encouraged as we often see as last week MPs going to msp's going to Westminster opposed to.
Westminster to hollywood so that leaves option three and and i think he has to wait and see the outcome of the parties any see on what rules are going to forward first but i suspect he's going to have to make an announcement some point soon because clearly the controversy is the most part is it's been the most damaging and on that i'd just like to say i mean i've got no skin in the game i'm not part member and i haven't been involved in politics for ten years now
But it's quite something. We're seeing the S&P eat itself. Again, we saw it with Kate Forbes, which he stood against, Hamza Yusuf, and the leadership contest. And we're seeing it again a little bit lesser than we were Steven. So I look forward to seeing the greatest football manager that always lived. Publicly, supporting his team, privately, giving a bit of a kick in. The S&P should take a leaf out of his book and stop giving fodder to your opposition.
So let me just come in on that as well as the thing about the accents. I think we must limit Alex Ferguson mentions to maximum one per six months. We've got to make a new rule here on this podcast. We can't have this every week from Jeff, right? Can't limit that. Inspiration, can you Andy? Can't limit inspiration. But Jeff makes a good point about the S&P actually. And, well, look, we all know what happens to parties who are fighting with each other, right? They don't get elected. Just one thing on the double job.
Ivan McKee and all ministers and cabinet secretary's double job. Being a ministers one job, being an MSP is another job. If Stephen Flynn was coming up to Holy Roots, becoming an MSP as well as his MP brief, and being a minister, you might then say, look, come on mate, that's actually three jobs, right? That's too many. That's a bit ridiculous. But everybody who's got a ministerial post has effectively got two jobs. They've got a job as a minister and they've got a job as a constituency MSP.
Yeah, constituency MSPs and regional MSPs have slightly different jobs with different workloads. My point is that the party is taking the decisions and seeing the things it's doing from a party perspective. And this is more about the personalities involved, I think, than it is about the principle of double-jobbing or indeed the workload of double-jobbing. Somebody who's an MP and an MSP at the same time, are they busier than somebody who's a cabinet secretary at an MSP at the same time? I don't think so.
I suppose, I mean, there are crucial differences, though, aren't there, Andy? Let's be real. So if you're a cabinet secretary, you are based in and around one parliament building. I mean, the geography alone of being an MP and an MSP is ludicrous and how you split your week between London and Edinburgh and your constituency. I mean, it's just nonsense. These are designed to be full-time jobs. Doing two of them is physically impossible.
I don't know, maybe I'm making a foolish point, which I'll regret in days to come. I don't know, but my point is that, you know, that wouldn't be like me. But what do you think about that, Jeff? I mean, being a Cabinet Secretary on an MSP are two different jobs. You know, it's double the business, right? It's not.
I am not going to get into the for the game of criticising for going for Joe Mandates. I worked for a guy that was the MP for Bam from Buckingham, the MSP for Gordon and the first Minister of Scotland. Now that's three pretty big jobs and he did them pretty well. But I'm just not going to get into it. For my mind, I view very binary like you Andy. I'm not trying to deal with my criticisms of
and Stevens, this isn't to do this, but I view it very, very finely. Do you want your best team on the pitch at the next big contest? Yes or no, then if you view that as yes, I think Stevens part of the team is one of the first names in the team to end all.
There was an interesting quote was or not, Callum. I remember there was a, was there not a some story about how I think it was a, it must have been Obama or somebody had phoned David Cameron and got him out of a meeting and said something on the lines of I'm sorry to take away from your job as the MP for Whitney to talk.
It's something like that, but I'm also trying to make a serious point at the same time, which is that I do think that, you know, we're not necessarily playing the ball here as much as we're playing the man.
So that which I think is fascinating because on this exact topic, as we've referenced, that has been referenced in conversation, the rules were changed to keep Joanna Cherry out of the running. And so actually, this isn't the first time that this issue has caused personal attacks and political party infighting for the SNP. And that is just destructive. And even if you don't care as a principle about Stephen Flynn having an MP and MSP job at the same time, surely, Jeff, the public will pay attention
and care about a party that is absolutely chewing itself from the inside over these sorts of issues. If for no other reason than to say, well, you've still not built my fairies, but you're fighting each other about this, and you've still not juggled the A9 and you've still not got my kids a good education, but you've got time to spend burning each other up.
Which is why i think steven will take a decision pretty short order to try and de-escalate all this. Couple of things though just on that if you think the people of avarine south are bothered one bit about this and are thinking about this right now you're mistaken this is a political bubble story but it has the potential to become a little bit more problematic for the way that smp because of the rain.
that you like so i think again that's why the decision will be taken look at the end of the day steven has been bought. Did he handle it as well as he could have perhaps not on reflection about he looks back on what should be certain things in place perhaps engage with the incumbent msp a bit earlier in the process perhaps engaged.
party members and NEC members, a little bit on the processes to tease them out and then take forward a plan from there. But nonetheless, I may be wrong, but once a line's drawn under this from Stephen, I think that'll be the end of it and I'll hopefully minimize the damage. But you're absolutely right. That's why he's going to have to take it as soon in my opinion.
It gets you thinking doesn't it when you see somebody measuring your drink as they're pouring it at the bar compared to what you might be pouring into your glass at home? And recent surveys suggest that 25% of home drinkers pour at least a triple measure of spirits when asked to pour just a single measure as you'd get served in pubs.
The Scotch Whisky Association's Made to Be Measured campaign seeks to build greater awareness of the units of alcohol contained in those popular drinks and by the way how important it is to measure alcohol at home and to keep track. Always measure your Scotch. It is made to be measured. Find out more at scotch-whisky.org.uk forward slash made to be measured.
Well, on the theme of internal party politics that does spill over a little into the public perception, let's talk about Scottish Labour and Anna Sarwar. And actually, in the context of this, Scottish Labour lost another council by election. One of the reasons for them losing out, in fact coming third in the Colinton Fermil head ward in Edinburgh, is because of the Winter Fuel payment. And this week, Anna Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader,
said that a future Scottish Labour government would reinstate the Winter Fuel Payment. Now, I find this fascinating politically because there's Scottish MPs voted for the cut from Westminster. The MSPs voted against calls for the cut to be reversed.
Stay with me on this. They have had to spend months defending this thing, as announced by Westminster. And so Andy, now we've got something. Is this a U-turn? What are we describing this as?
I don't know. Maybe it's like an o-turn where it all just goes in one big circle. I'm not sure. The backdrop to this is what you see, what we saw again in a poll yesterday and what we've seen in polls over the last few months, which is that you wake up on July the 5th,
And you think, that's great, we're in government at Westminster, but even better, we are now on the fast track, unstoppable heading to Butte House to become the Scottish government. And then slowly but surely and almost, you know, like they can't prevent it in front of their eyes. The whole thing just starts to disappear. And you get to the point where you start doing the maths and you think, actually,
Is Anna Sarwar even now the favourite to be First Minister after 2026? Or is John Swinney still the favourite to be First Minister after 2026? And inevitably, you'd start to look for people and for things to blame. I thought it was pretty incredible that winter fuel payment was something that the early Starmer government decided to make their big three-budget point on.
I'm not entirely convinced that was particularly great comes, but it has become something of a totemic issue that is associated with the early seas of this Labour government. There is always a presumption in Scotland that benefits are more popular in Scotland and harder to scrap in Scotland than they are throughout the rest of the UK. Scottish Labour has always been just a little bit further to the left.
than labor in the UK, even when it's a newer version of labor. And so this is what you come up with. You get an ASAR worth thinking in order to get some people back on board. I have got to reverse out of this a little bit and start looking again at putting a benefit back in place. I'm not a big fan of it. I'll be honest with you. I don't think scrapping the Winter Fuel payment was a particularly bad idea. I thought it was badly executed, but I don't think it was a bad idea. It wasn't a very good benefit. It wasn't a very targeted benefit. And I don't think it was a bad thing to scrap.
I think universal benefits are generally speaking on the way out anyway, for all sorts of good reasons. And so I think there is, to me, to my mind, a hint of desperation about this from Scottish Labour, to be honest.
Anna Sarbar is doing the only thing open to him. He has defined a defendable position. This issue has become totemic. Whether you agree with the winter fuel lounge cut or not, it has become toteno. And so he's had to get to a position that he thinks is defendable. Now, it's still quite ridiculous position. I mean, if you imagine, right, being a Scottish Labour MP out campaigning for your MSP colleagues in the holiday election, you go in the doorstep versus women, are you voted for this?
And you're asking me a vote for labor.
for the next Scottish Government to absorb it. I mean, this is no sure of vote Labour to stop Labour. Now, when Anna Sauer is game playing his slogans and strategy for 2026, he didn't have vote Labour to stop Labour at the top of his list. So, look, it is very, very unfortunate. I do have a degree of sympathy for Anna Sauer. I mean, he must be pulling his head at this.
But he didn't, the only thing open to try and get to a somewhat defendable position. He's not going to be campaigning on this issue. It's just to try and get a very best score draw on the field. It's going to be a way defeat because if they're simply got any sense, they'll be seeking to capitalize on this in the budget in a week or two.
Yeah, fair point. Can I make a broader point on that as well, right? Just one broader point on it is that this, and Jeff in his past life has benefited from this sort of thing, and the S&P will always do a degree benefit from this sort of thing, which is that whether you are Labour or the Tories, and no matter how much you protest about the separation between the Westminster Party and the Holyrood Party, and all of that, ultimately,
you are blown by the winds of Westminster. That is just the way it works in the unionist community. I mean, I've said this for 20 years about the Tory party. It's not that different with Labour. And so I actually don't think what an SR were doing or saying, well, make all that much difference, to be honest with you, because when people go to the ballot books in a Hollywood election,
Yes, they are to a degree thinking about an ASAR war or Russell Finlay or whoever it might be, but to a very significant degree in their heads as well is whatever the regime is at Westminster. And I mean, you know, I'm afraid the Scottish parties at Hollywood are kidding themselves if they think that they are seen to be independent entities.
who can do things independently of the part of the Westminster. There's no electoral reality about that position at all. They are blown by the winds at Westminster. If those winds are positive, then they benefit from that. But if those winds are negative, then they get blown down just the same.
Come in on that. I mean, look, I saw George Fuchs making the case that this is devolution in practice. Westminster decides something of the Scottish Parliament. It's like, yeah, I mean, look, fair play, George, right? He knows as well as I did, privately. You know, it's not how politics is played out. And for good or bad, you can argue both ways. But what this does tell us, we're now going to find out how serious, seriously, concierge starmer does take Scotland.
And we know that this is going to be his first big electoral contest. What is he going to give to Anna Sarba? How is he going to help him out? Because Scottish labor and a little bit of a hold just now on the back of this and not through fault of their own and certainly not through fault of Anna's leadership.
Through what's happened at Westminster, Andy's analysis is right, but it doesn't change the facts. He's going to come up against an SNP that are going to point this out and say, see you look, can't be trusted, we'll protect Scotland, not you look, we'll stand up for Scotland, not you look, and we've got the evidence to prove it. What is Keir Snammer going to offer on a server to try and counter that accusation, which has now got evidence to it in the political realm? That's going to be fascinating to see.
Didn't Sam end off set the bedroom tax, the spirit room subsidy. Am I right in saying that he intervened on that? Jeff, I think he said that. We did, yeah.
Clearly a different context because it wasn't SMP versus SMP, but it's just an interesting kind of intervention precedent. I suppose on a kind of benefit related issue, which we weren't voting SMP to stop SMP. No, exactly. No, I appreciate that. I absolutely do. And that's exactly the point, right? Because the SMP never have to defend the West. Never ever. Whereas the other parties always have to defend their government.
And I saw where it could be the politician of the year after tonight. Who knows? Yeah, can I just come in and ask me who I thought should win? Everyone's interested in why Andy wins. I take the point. Is the answer Alex Ferguson?
Well, I mean, I can think of a lot of worse people to win it than him. But there's no seriously, like in a year that Scottish Labour have turned the table on the SNP and won 30-odd MPs. I'm surprised that you think that Anna Sauer is no good at winning Andy. Great that Kate Forbes has managed to get into position for deputy first minister, but I think you've been a bit unfair to Anna Sauer.
I didn't see i didn't think i think he will win and i think i think i think that is a no no no no hold on i think we're coming back i think you should keep on is going to win it and now you're going to say that an aside was going to win it well we can reverse the tape i think it for should win it i didn't see i think she will win it i think you look.
It's a generational talent and i think she's i think she's the best politician in vollyrude so i would always just say that she's a politician in the europe i mean i'm a huge fan of an asara we've been through this many times before in this podcast i think he's got everything it takes to be a good first minister for leper but uh you know i think he forces in a different legal column i'm gonna make you make sense of that honestly some
So, Jeff, if I was doing this interview on Times Radio just now, and we were doing the post interview analysis, I'd say, there's a politicians answer. He didn't really commit to anything. Our listeners will be quite cheesed off about that. I would say. And I mean, so I think I'm going to go for, I think I'm going to go for John Sweeney.
I wonder what the metrics of six, what makes the politician of the year, because a sort of summary of where John Swinney and Kate Forbes are at at the moment. They've lost 39 MPs in the general election. They've lost, I think it's 12 by elections in a row.
There's redundancies on the way HQ, because membership rates are down, money coming in is down. And there is, as we've already discussed, inficing within the SNP, the National Care Service is now in the distant midst of history. And there have been several sort of scandals, mostly pivoting around Neil Gray, the health minister. And I just wonder, actually, if there's kind of a measure of a metric of success to be, to be considered here, what makes the politician of the year, I suppose? What are the criteria, is my question.
Let me try to answer your question. Andy's getting bored in. Let's move on. Honestly, this is rubbish. You've had an idea. You've had an absolute nightmare except that move on. We'll just compare Kate Forbes to where she and Scotland were this time last year to where she and Scotland are right now. This is getting bored.
Well, do you know what will spice things up? Let's talk about Patrick Harvey suggesting that there should be mass protests against Donald Trump if he visits Scotland, which I pretty sure he will. Donald Trump loves Scotland. And so I reckon it won't be too long before the president elect soon to be the president of the United States. Again, it would come in visit. His son Eric is sort of running things when it comes to golf courses and whatnot. Well, his dad is the president. Jeff, do you like the idea of protesting Donald Trump if he was to visit Scotland?
People can do what they want, and their entitled to protest is an important part of our politics. But the question is whether people should take up Patrick Harvey, an elected MSP former government minister calls to protest. Now, he said he was very disappointed at John Sweeney saying what he did about Donald Trump. Donald Trump was democratically elected. I might not like that. I don't like it. And he doesn't like it either. I'm assuming Patrick Harvey, but that he was democratically elected, right?
and you have to respect that. Now, at a time when he's threatening tariffs and we've got a Scotch whiskey industry that is very, very worried about the impact on that because it's the biggest export market for that project. Wouldn't it be wise for John Sweeney to put aside the political differences and act on behalf of all the country and try and see if he can get in there and try and make a case for some sort of exemption or some sort of support in that regard? Just one example I'm taking.
You know, politics is not all about protest and disagreeing. It's about seeking compromise, about theft and diplomacy. And one thing about Donald Trump, right, as much as he's a cavalier maverick, do you remember when he was appointed in 2016, he had a call with Nicholas Sturgeon, which must have given the foreign office, Westminster, a bit of a surprise, unwanted surprise.
What that tells us, though, is he's probably willing to have one by little who everything. John should you seize the opportunity and fight Scotland's corner as a first minister should. It doesn't mean you don't have to protest if you don't want to and all the rest as an individual. It's sometimes a politician who's just going to be a bit more grown up about the things that they're calling for and recognize that there's people's livelihoods, industries at stake in these discussions.
It would be nicer, I think, in Scotland if we could, and if our politicians could start to differentiate between disagreement and hatred. I think that Donald Trump is a dreadful choice as president, both for America, but more precisely internationally, I think he is not
well-read enough to understand what being president means not just for his own country but for the world. And so I think it's generally speaking a bad thing. But the greatest democracy in the world just voted for him in massive numbers and very clearly to be the president.
And he doesn't, you know, just because it's him, doesn't mean that the presidency itself is not worth cultivating if you're Scotland. A lot of Scottish expats in the US, we sell a lot of produce to the US, a lot of our, of a lot of our salmon, for instance, goes to the US. I think it's our second biggest market for salmon. So I think
you have to think a bit more strategically and frankly a bit more responsibly about how we deal with Donald Trump. Now, I think John Swinney made a mistake by endorsing Kamala Harris before the election. I thought it was a foolish thing to do. I thought it was a necessary thing to do. And I was actually quite surprised and disappointed that he did it.
It's not double down on that mistake by having other parliamentarians behave in this way. Look, they can do it if they want to. It's an entirely free country. But we also need to just, I think, understand that there was a lot of support for Donald Trump in the US. There is probably more support for him and his views here than some people might want to admit. I think I saw a poll that said that he had a 25% approval rating in Scotland.
The Greens are pulling it about what? 12 or 13%, right? So, you know, there's an element I think that people need to say, okay, hold on, maybe we are reflecting our own views of our own bubble, but then we're actually not reflecting the views of the country just quite as well as we think we are.
I mean, Patrick Harvey is a band-bench MSP, right? And he's entitled to say what he wants, but why not have to take issue with him as criticizing John Swinney for trying to reach out to the leader of the free world? Again, I don't think any of us this call particularly wanted that to happen, but it has happened, and it's happened democratically, and they hold massive sway, particularly economically.
over a lot of industries in our country. And so, John has to do that because he has to respect the views of all Scotland in this regard. And I just caught Kanye with this nonsense, OK? You fed up with it and things really do.
I have to add to this, that I may, I may have to make a declaration of interest in a future podcast because I have been advised by a relative, a McKeever relative, that it is possible that Donald Trump's mother from Stournaway is a distant relative.
Mary McLeod may be a distant relative of the McLean side on my maternal grandmother's side. So hold the phone, hold this thought, but it's possible that me and Don are cousins, in which case I'm going to have to take all this back. But we'll deal with that. You're all I've got. I've got a good one here, guys. You know, we should do a new Maga movement. Make Andy great again. Although,
You won't really ever agree. I suppose that would be the problem. You might get a cabinet position from Randy. Also, what actually strikes me about that is you're going to have a hard time convincing your Lib Dem colleagues of your kind of your authenticity with all of this. They were campaigning against him and you're now related to him. That's going to be problematic when you're next checked out at school Hamilton.
Listen, I mean, you know, I'm sure I'll be able to smooth anything over. We're very, very close menalibs. I just really desperately want them to issue an absolute public distancing. Anyway, let's go on. We've got a few minutes left in the podcast and we want to do a bit of a report card in Russell Finley, who is the Scottish Conservative leader. You heard the candidates for the leadership will not that long ago, actually, on this podcast a couple of months ago.
And so probably time to check in Andy you've been doing this for the spectator looking at tax cuts and Russell Finley's agenda which has been referred to as the common sense agenda but then aren't they all. What's he been talking about when it comes to tax cuts and is he right? I think he's half right. Basically what he has suggested is that he will remove some of the rate from the bottom end so cut the bottom end of tax to 19 pence and roll that all the way up
two salaries of just over £43,000 for one of the higher rates kicks in. So that'll give a decent number of people a bit of a tax cut. I think it's a good thing. But I think what he has failed to do is to replicate that at the top end. And it's more politically difficult to talk about a top end tax cut, for sure.
and because you are immediately accused of benefiting the rich and only being in favour of people who have higher incomes and so on and so on. But an actual fact from an economic point of view is really important to cut that top end of tax because you're talking about people who might be superintendents in the police force or senior nurses or consultants,
or indeed many of the private sector industries in renewables and finance in particular, who we know we're struggling to attract to Scotland at the moment because of the high taxes. So it's more difficult to do politically. It's a more difficult narrative, but I think it's an narrative that they should be exploring. So I think they should be talking about tax cuts right across the range from talk to bottom, including abolishing the upper rate tax and making us competitive, more competitive than England so we can try to attract
higher earners, wealth creators here, and increase our tax base. I think it's a bit disappointing that he hasn't taken that step, and he's done the easy bit, but not necessarily done the hard bit. I think one of the arguments that's always bothered me is that they've costed this tax cut. They've said this tax cut will cost $584 million or whatever it was. I can't remember what the number was.
But the whole point about being from the sort of free-market centre-right liberal economic background is that you don't cost tax cuts. Tax cuts create economic growth. Just as tax rises, we know dampen economic growth as we've heard the potentially from the Fraser of Ireland Institute on the end.
The Scottish Fiscal Commission may happen with the tax rises. Tax cuts can increase economic growth. I think it's disappointing that they haven't taken on that centre right argument because that is what they are there to do. I'd rather thank you for that economic seminar and the Russell Finley's report card. I think he personally has sued up well to the test of FMQs and he was quite comfortable.
I think when we did that podcast for the leaders, you got a sense of a little bit of animosity. It looks like that's been dispelled somewhat. And so I think that's another positive tick on a leadership so far, because I can always destabilize you very quickly. And I don't think we know enough about his policy platform. OK, Andy's given a narcissist on the tax cuts yet to understand how they're going to pitch their 10 ahead of 26.
The biggest challenge and threat will come from the reform party and how they tend to deal with that. There is evidence to suggest that the reform is taking votes from all parties, but does seem quite a lot from the Tories. I think a decent start and wait to see in the New Year how he pitches his tent for the 26 election campaign.
Nice one, both. Thank you very much. That is something of a whizz through some of the Scottish political stories of this week. Of course, you can keep in touch with us. You can find us on X. We're at Hollywood Sources. You can email us. Hello at hollywoodsources.com to have your say, to share your thoughts and all that you've heard today. And indeed, through the week as well, whenever you get in touch with us, we'll read out your messages on the next podcast. Right, I'm off to iron my shirt ahead of these awards this evening. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Andy. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you again next week.
